Conversation 249-026

TapeTape 249StartThursday, April 15, 1971 at 5:25 PMEndThursday, April 15, 1971 at 6:20 PMTape start time02:44:52Tape end time03:33:50ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Bull, Stephen B.;  Murphy, Robert D.;  Kissinger, Henry A.;  White House photographerRecording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On April 15, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, Robert D. Murphy, Henry A. Kissinger, and White House photographer met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:25 pm to 6:20 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 249-026 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 249-26

Date: April 15, 1971
Time: 5:25 pm - 6:20 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman

     Look magazine story
          -Feature story
          -Presidency
          -Herbert G. Klein
          -Unknown columnist [Christopher S. Wren?]
          -Anecdotes
                -Haldeman’s sources
          -Wedding story
          -Timing

     James J. Kilpatrick, Jr.’s column
          -Haldeman’s possible call to Kilpatrick
          -Opinion Research Corporation [ORC] poll
          -George H. Gallup poll
          -Joseph W. and Stewart J. O. Alsop
          -Possible distribution
                -Staff
                -News summary
                -Linwood Holton
                -Governors
                -Congress
                -Klein
                -John W. Rollins

     People’s Republic of China [PRC] initiative
          -Reaction of intellectuals
          -Vietnam
               -Media coverage

             -Henry A. Kissinger
                  -Harvard University faculty

     Opponents
         -Maoists
         -Ho Chi Minh and Mao Tse-tung
         -Possible violence
         -Media coverage
         -November [1969?] demonstrations
         -Psychology of demonstrators
         -Cambodia
               -May 1970 demonstrations
               -Press conference

     Polls
             -Patrick J. Buchanan’s forthcoming call to Liv Kilborne [sp?]
                   -Gallup and ORC
                         -Figures
                   -Vietnam War

     Lieutenant William L. Calley, Jr.
          -Conservatives
                -James L. Buckley
                -Walter H. Judd

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:25 pm

     President’s schedule

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:38 pm

     Conservatives
         -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
         -Vietnam

     President’s meeting with editors
           -Klein
           -Charles W. Colson
           -Klein
           -Clark MacGregor

Haldeman left and Robert D. Murphy and Kissinger entered at 5:38 pm; the White House

photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting

     Greetings

     Official photograph

     Murphy’s trip to Taiwan
         -Timing
         -Chow Shu-kai
         -State Department
               -American ambassador Walter P. McConaughy
         -United Nations [UN] General Assembly vote
               -Evaluation
               -Taiwan
               -Colonel William R. Usher
               -Need for secrecy
         -Message for Chiang Kai-shek
               -Possible new policy
               -“Two Chinas”
               -USSR
               -PRC/Taiwan
               -Special circumstances
               -President’s PRC initiative
               -“Overseas Chinese”
                      -Concerns
                           -Ping-pong team
                           -Possible recognition of PRC
               -State Department’s views
               -Effects on United States’ Asian allies
               -United States’ commitments to Taiwan
                      -Arms
                      -Trade
                      -Textiles
               -UN
               -President’s attachment to Taiwan
               -Murphy’s role
               -Cabinet position
                      -National Security Council [NSC] meeting
               -UN
               -Senate and the military
               -UN
                      -Security Council

                     -“Two China” possibility
                     -United States’ policy
                           -Delay
                     -Department of State position
                     -Need for leadership
                     -PRC/Taiwan
          -State Department
                -Marshall Green’s argument
                     -PRC entry into UN
          -PRC opinion on Vietnam
                -Chou En-lai
                -Laos

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[Previous National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number
LPRN-T-MDR-2014-016. Segment declassified on 01/12/2018. Archivist: MAS]
[National Security]
[249-026-w001]
[Duration: 59s]

     Robert D. Murphy’s trip to Taiwan
         -People’s Republic of China [PRC] opinion on Vietnam
               -Report regarding Chou En-lai
                    -Provenance of report
                          -Conversation with unknown person in Pakistan
                                -Agha Muhammad Yahya Khan
               -Mao Tse-tung
                    -People’s Republic of China [PRC] plans
                    -Elections

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     Robert D. Murphy’s trip to Taiwan
         -PRC opinion on Vietnam
               -Mao
               -Laos
         -USSR
         -Mao’s statement
               -Vietnam

                 -Taiwan
          -PRC
                 -Mood

******************************************************************************

[Previous National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number
LPRN-T-MDR-2014-016. Segment declassified on 04/29/2019. Archivist: MAS]
[National Security]
[249-026-w002]
[Duration: 1m 13s]

      Robert D. Murphy’s trip to Taiwan
             -People’s Republic of China [PRC] intelligence
                    -Concerning Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
                           -Headquarters of Army
                           -Deep divisions elsewhere
                                   -Mood worse than intelligence suggests
                    -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
                           -Long-term thinking
                    -Mao Tse-tung

******************************************************************************

     Robert D. Murphy’s trip to Taiwan
         -Murphy’s experiences in 1945
               -Berlin
               -President’s meeting with Nikita S. Khrushchev in 1959
               -Sino-Soviet border
         -Importance of Murphy’s mission
               -Message for Chiang Kai-shek
               -Effects on United States’ Asian allies
         -Taiwan
               -Importance
               -Exports
               -Need for a flexible policy
               -UN
               -Possible reaction in Congress
                     -Military assistance
               -President’s message for Chiang Kai-shek

                      -Democrats
                      -Senate
          -Reaction to President’s PRC initiative
                -Public
                -”Hawks”
                -Congress
                -Glassboro summit
                -Polls
                -Peace movement
                -State Department
                      -Green
                      -USSR
                      -President’s trip to Romania
                -Unknown person’s opposition to PRC initiative
                -Reasons for President’s PRC initiative
                      -Chiang Kai-shek
          -Travel arrangements
                -PRC
                      -Chou En-lai
          -Instructions for talking to Green
          -Murphy’s possible conversation with Green
                      -William P. Rogers
                      -Need for secrecy
                      -Report to President
          -Rogers and Green
          -State Department
                -Memorandum on UN
                      -George H. W. Bush
          -President’s policies
          -PRC
                -Chou En-lai
          -President’s instructions for McConaughy
          -Kissinger’s possible instructions to McConaughy
          -Need for secrecy
          -McConaughy
          -Franklin D. Roosevelt’s conversation with Murphy regarding North African
                operation
          -Rogers’ views toward mission
          -Importance of PRC/Taiwan

Murphy left at 6:10 pm

     PRC/Taiwan policy
         -Possible consequences of President’s initiative

     Lyndon B. Johnson
         -Problems with Vietnam War
         -Polls
               -Figures
               -Fluctuations in support
               -Glassboro summit

     United States’ policy
          -Murphy
          -Glassboro meeting

     Summit meeting
         -PRC
         -Kissinger’s conversation with [Name unintelligible]
         -Negotiations
               -Timing

     Vietnam
          -Prisoner of War [POW] wives and POW issue
          -Possible North Vietnamese moves
          -Difficulties
          -Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
          -Instructions for Kissinger
          -United States’ policy
          -Troop withdrawals
          -[Forename unknown] Fentris [sp?]

     USSR
         -Kissinger’s conversation with Peter G. Peterson
               -United States-PRC relations
               -United States’ position in the world
               -Reaction
               -Kissinger’s conversation with Dobrynin
               -Peterson’s meeting on trade
               -PRC initiative

Kissinger left at 6:20 pm

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Look magazine, pumping in what every holiday gets here for.
They're doing a cover.
Well, it wouldn't be a cover.
I don't think it is.
I don't know.
I hope not.
The feature story on the, what they start off as a feature story on the U.S. turned into a feature story on the president's presidency, as seen by his personal and closest assistants and that kind of thing.
Good.
They just hammer away all their lines.
They try to get their lines in.
This guy's pretty cooperative.
He's so dazzled by the whole thing that he's getting a lot of brand new stuff.
It's the same things we've been finding with the colonists and all that he doesn't know.
He knows what they do.
They don't know.
They don't even agree.
Well, I mean, but they don't read it.
They just hammer them all in, all the anecdotes and all that.
I'd go back over your memos, my notes, all that, and I'd just sit there shoveling it in.
Every time you asked one question, I'd change to something else.
I'd say, who's writing down?
So, yeah, I don't know what the other part is.
And it's a picture story on a survey.
It's a picture of what we're doing.
I want to ask you to do something.
I was told last night, I was called in on a call from Bill Packard's call line.
And two thoughts.
One, I think you might give him a call and tell him what our, as he said, it will be a while before public opinion polls give us something that's valid.
I think it's a good thing we're going to have a president.
You might call and say, look, President Anderson, you don't know what the other words are.
O-R-I-C for the poll.
And it will not be public opinion polls.
You know what I mean?
They will bring their take advantage on something else.
Say whatever you want.
The thing that occurred to me is that this kind of a column, if you do it off the grid
So it makes for a very good speech and a very tough cover record.
Yeah, he is.
He's really better, more subtle than Joe Elson.
Okay?
I think it would be good to go to the .
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But I think this one we could probably do more than one.
They may have already signed a project.
It would be a good thing for the government.
I don't know if you can get it.
We've got this office set up over across here, but they're outside now.
Yeah.
I think we've been trying to get there a couple of times.
How many times?
And China is programming them and all this.
And it grabs them.
I would never get them on anything, you know, constructive.
Whether it's for Vietnam, I don't blame them on it.
It's something positive.
We're taking it to the ship.
Nobody else could have done it.
They don't lie to me.
Everybody else is going to try to.
We've got the intensity on this one.
This time, probably because the records look weird.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
No, and no, God damn well, we did this whole thing.
I've got a show that says the fact that you're part of the Hamlet is called the heart of the professor's show.
And a lot of the draft questions, they all refer to the left-wingers of the Hamlet incident.
Like who?
Some of the demonstrations down there in your house, basically.
Yeah, but I lost it.
They're not malice, it'll give you a logic to be a malice because that's a focal point for being against us.
It's like O.G.
Mann.
They don't know who O.G.
Mann is.
O.G.
Mann, malice.
They don't know malice.
They read those saints, and I'll be consistent with them.
It's a big deal.
I don't think...
Yeah, it'd be better.
I mean, it may be cool.
I don't know.
I could take some of the scene.
I think the kids are going to come down and have a great time.
I think this will take some of the backbone from the job there.
Oh, it won't hurt us, though.
They're right on.
We're going to have to do some of this time.
They know that, too.
They've got an element to them.
I like to have them up there at the camp for another reason.
I didn't get my brakes on.
I didn't get my brakes on.
I didn't get my brakes on.
I didn't get my brakes on.
I didn't get my brakes on.
Because demonstrators aren't rational, right?
Is there a problem?
Just like the main demonstrators haven't seen in Canberra.
They were all out here in the Canberra press conference.
They were all out here.
We have a face burner.
I think our report is quite old.
We went to California, you know.
We kind of make the calls around.
You know, just give the selected thing, how it turned around and where it ended.
Theoretic homology.
And quote, Gallup was 50.
Now ORC is 65, 34.
That's what I meant with the super fund.
The 49, 44.
That's what I meant with the handling of the war.
Okay, both.
Move on.
It also has in there the appeal of the country to turn over the Congress to another issue, one, and all of the other people that are against that.
That's all coming on Sunday.
On Sunday.
There's no question in my mind that this Cali thing, plus the opposition, which is correct in a way, is accurate.
Well, it's interesting.
I've been super concerned.
It was down to C2 of 10.
But they're lit.
I thought you might be able to judge those people.
Well, I probably will, but I've been out there in many stories.
Yeah.
He was wondering what he's been hearing.
He had a couple of calls from super conservative members from their own districts.
And he explained the thing to them and they bought it.
So he said, I have a question.
I'll cut it off.
Thank you.
I would have thought that it would be knee-jerk, but you're doing great from the end.
And then when they brought about it, they might simmer down, but apparently they didn't.
You don't want to take that from the conservatives.
Maybe people will want to apologize to you then.
This is a Russian question, but I don't care.
Plus, you're a firm on Vietnam.
The reason I called him that editor's thing, I just sort of felt that that's the kind of thing we really ought to do.
Right.
Yeah, they're inclined to do that, but he's not capable of it.
Maybe close.
I don't know.
Some of those guys, you know, they love to be later on, but are we doing anything that is good enough?
You know, he's
He'll do it himself.
Oh, I know that.
But I meant to organize a few of our other people.
Like, I'm a great person.
I don't know.
Okay.
Okay.
I thought we'd record this picture because I thought that we were going to use it now to send you a copy.
Someday we may want to get the proof of what I know.
That's what I know.
We don't have a good one.
Let's get one of our
No, no, not now, but we'll send it up to his, you know, friend, and I, in a proper and formal way.
And we'll send you a copy of this, too.
No, you shouldn't share that.
Uh, do you have a chance to talk about it one more time?
Let me, let me turn it off while you're out here.
Yes, I can go anytime, you know.
Well, I'm very good at that.
I can go, I can go Monday.
Monday, Sunday, Monday, Sunday.
No, it's Sunday at the end.
God will send me to that, you know.
It's a great thing, isn't it?
And I want you to understand here that every conference is a conference.
The reason that I cannot do this through the conference, and I do tell myself, I do tell myself, is that he, as an ambassador, has to report it to the State Department.
It's a situation.
The Department is already
That's the recommendation I would give.
And it's a recommendation I may take on a bigger, universal procedure.
I may want to do it now and start exploring foreign governments and so forth.
I have put the brake on.
I said, I won't.
Yes.
Their arguments are very sound in a way.
They say, look, they're going to get rolled anyway.
Let's come out for universality.
And then that way, this is the way to keep Taiwan and Chinese members have to know one of those arguments.
So you can make a good case for their position.
But I'll tell you what I have said.
Now, look, that we cannot...
And they say that they have checked with other levels of people around, you know, and that he thinks this is okay.
And the guy that's going back to the board of ministers, the child ambassador here, sort of wobbled around on that old road here.
Now, the only thing is, no one yet has talked to the old man.
No one.
No.
I'm sure, I'm sure of Cronigan, but I don't think anybody's really talked to him in a level of... Now here's the thing, here's what we need to know.
We need to know that we are up against what will probably be a losing fight in the general assembly.
And an important question is should we push it down, or lose it?
Of course, we have a tie-on external, and we have an argument against it.
The point is that the chances are not that we'll lose an important question.
That is our present evaluation.
Now, understand, I haven't decided yet.
I've put the brakes on him.
You don't do a damn thing to check with him.
Bill knows you're going to go to Iraq, and I will tell him.
After you interpret what you find out, but I do not want you to have anything to do with it automatically, because I don't want to rock and ricochet around and give you the established message.
Because, you see, they've already made up their mind, and I don't want them to interpret what you find out or what the old man says.
So what I want you to do is to save him from becoming unofficially a personal representative of the president.
But I am...
and we're steadfast in what we're trying to do.
Anyway, to save the situation, I can say, I also am a realist, and I know you do, and we have to face the fact that we're, the evaluation is that we're counting people as all the time, although it's not an important question, it really is an important question.
Therefore, what would you think of changing the strategy of the people who choose child support services?
We would find a co-relation in which there would be two people with child support without giving up the principle that there's only one child.
As well, the Soviet Union had three cities.
Exactly, that's right.
You couldn't justify either one of the special groups, that's what I know.
put on the grounds of universality that every country and government ought to be less retentive.
That's a package of the ideal that I don't really think you want to get in under.
But you can't stay away from it.
You talk about it.
You just need to feel free to talk freely.
You're not allowed by anyone.
I'm continuing.
But then what I think is important is that I'm trying to find out what
And also, there's another thing that's related to all this.
All these overseas Chinese, they're probably going to miss you at the moment.
Thank you for your time tonight.
It is my opinion, and this is where I have a divergence of faith,
We cannot give him a veto on it.
It's almost imperative that we give him confidential information to support what we do, or at least to take it.
If he says, let down with the United States, the effect on Korea, the effect on Vietnam, then how long are we going to hold back?
Now, let me say this to assure him that regardless,
We're going to go up over Long Island, right Henry?
Right.
And we're going to help them there.
We're going to trade a deal like we're doing the best we can.
We're trying to work out something on textbooks.
But the point is, you can tell them, that as far as the bilateral relationship is, it's always going to be
The question is you and that issue.
There is no discussion at the present time.
There is no discussion.
We are not for their admission.
The problem is the practical one.
That we want him to get probably enrolled on the fourth question issue.
What kind of a plan?
Well-invented.
What kind of plan with him on it?
I see that this is the
Now, and you can tell me, but I think you should tell it in a letter that I am not reporting this to anyone.
I'm not reporting that he's a losing ambassador, you know, he has a presence in Congress.
I'm not reporting this to the Secretary of State.
I'm reporting only to the President directly, but first because the President feels a strong personal allegiance and affection for
him, of course, and the Republican champion.
He also, pragmatically, however, has to think of the practical problem to fix, which is, of course, very important to him.
You know, he's so well.
I did have a question.
Oh, you do?
This is a personal question.
He can find an area that we have, that he has my attention to.
that I have, and you can, another thing you can do is you can play this role, you can say, look, you can say, you know, you can say, when I look here, I can tell you in confidence that this man, or, I don't know if he's in the administration, but every cabinet officer,
Every capital should be NSEB.
So I said, no.
And I said, I stopped the damn thing right there.
And I said, not until I have a chance to check this out.
And again, it's for this.
And not because we're against him, but because they're practical.
They're not against him, and this has been a developing process, as well as through the mind.
The problem is that right in this battle, year after year after year, it isn't what we believe, but it's the fact that this miserable organization, there is a miserable organization about that United Nations.
I think that's an understatement.
That's right.
Well, I've got another thought on that area that I want to press with you right now.
But nevertheless, because of the United Nations problems, we now are up against the devil.
And, that I feel is very important that we not slip away.
For others, if you should slip away from the UN issue, no one has problems with this stand-up assembly.
None of my military is for the free.
I didn't read the words that were written in the template.
I'm sure he did.
And so they said we could even get rid of him.
How can you do that?
I don't know.
I don't think you can do that.
You just have to see that we're actually just moving.
Maybe if you've got something to help play, it has to be done.
We're going to pray and stuff like that.
I read that very carefully.
I thought maybe this was the next one to come along.
Who gets to see this?
How is that?
I'm sure that'll be one of the first questions out of our hands.
On the Security Council, our assessment is really that we're going to have to get it whenever it shows up in fact, and we know that's not the case today.
That's not really effective, but on the two-child approach, however you define it.
Excuse me, would your thought be there that you defer this as long as you could?
Oh, yes.
We're going to fight a delaying action.
Delaying action.
Delaying action.
All the way.
Except that we want, we feel, aren't we?
Here's what a state case editor says, and I say a state case editor, because they are.
They just got it.
But a state case editor says that it's going to happen.
Now, rather than getting rolled on and having the Senate and everybody else kick us around, then what we ought to do is take the leadership and direct it in our own way.
And another argument once we have a state position is,
However you work out if it's in China or whatever, there's a strong probability that it's not in China.
So that's what we might want to do if it's in China.
What's the argument Marshall Green makes?
And he makes it very, he says, Congress of China will never come in as long as Taiwan is there.
So really, we're not doing anything.
He says, so let's play the game out and prove that we're flexible.
And that Congress of China then will somehow come out.
I'm not over it.
I'm not over it.
It's a swing.
Another thing, too.
Another thing, too.
It's a swing.
You've got to remember.
They are, and I love food.
Another thing, Henry, tell Bob about the fact that the company is making this show.
Joe and I have been so quiet about Vietnam and how this worry that we've just been to Vietnam, this is right after the lockdowns.
After the lockdowns and all the bells were saying the Chinese had intervened.
The first day I saw it, it hit me right in the eyes, right?
We have the report of how to evacuate the station.
It drives us to, it drives us to, it drives us to, it drives us to, you know, then I'm going to say it.
Where did you hear this?
Well, casually, this was a conversation he had with a teacher in Arkansas.
He's the one we got to pass it over to him.
And, uh, but this is his assessment of him, of the general.
I'll be
What in the hell are they going to do?
What do they want to do?
Sit there?
Get jumped?
The Russians will jump.
The Russians are going to jump.
That's what I think.
But for them to give up their claim of revolutionary virginity,
It wasn't until a revolutionary country, the first country in the United States, a week before demonstrations in this country, against their own name, said... And I'll tell you what they wanted to say.
Right after Laos.
That's right.
And what they couldn't have done.
Right after Laos.
And I thought they could have had that pickpocket in the newsman there and said, we know the Americans need to see what they've done before, what they've done before.
That's right.
Just like the Russians and the Americans.
That's right.
But there wasn't sound here.
On the contrary, he even said a new era of relations between the people of the United States and the people of China.
And not a word about Vietnam.
He didn't say, of course, it's got to wait until the Vietnam War is settled because we can't have American forces.
Did he mention Taiwan?
No.
Did he?
No.
No.
No, but...
I think they're scared.
What do you think they're afraid of?
I think they're scared to walk by us.
We don't know.
Of course we don't know.
That's the message we made before this movie.
We thought it was intelligent information.
They have only communication intelligence.
They don't overclock.
So all they know is the headquarters of the rationale.
Unfortunately, they don't know that these divisions are only in half strength.
Actually, though, they know what the spread is.
Well, they also know it's a Russian thing.
This is it.
They're not.
He disappeared in a few hours.
And so did the Russians.
In the long term.
The Russians are not worried about the long term.
They think long term.
This is why when people said they'd go into the house with another teacher, they said they've got four kids with them.
They know what they're talking about.
I don't want to waste your time, but way back as soon as early as 1945, you see a lot of the Russian officers there, several general staff officers there.
He said, we were lying awake at night thinking about that.
This is the evolution of this whole process.
Let me say that I think this is a
mission is that he's done a lot of very important things in terms of I don't think there's anything more important than working in an ion.
If you could, as a matter of fact, if you could bring him to this point of view, it would help, wouldn't it?
However, if he will not come to this point of view, it doesn't mean that I might not still have to do it.
But the core problem I'm concerned about is not so much him,
People will say, what the hell is the United States?
And after all, Taipei is, or Taiwan is what we often say has been.
It's bigger than two-thirds of the country in the United Nations, right?
Oh, hell, they're a good measure.
They export more of the world economy to China with an excellent record of performance.
And it's just something that breaks my heart, but it's the fact of life.
And so what we want to do is to find a way, and I think really what's involved here is, I think Henry, you were pretty good.
If we get ourselves boxed into a position where we do not hold a reasonable line of the United Nations, everybody will know us because the old man said no.
This Congress, particularly the Senate, will turn on us on the go.
That's what I'm afraid of.
Yeah, but shouldn't they help us get military assistance within the country?
Which we have to buy every year.
Which we have to buy every year.
The thing that I want you to make clear, I don't want that to be a trap, telling you, I don't give a damn what happens.
I don't want to see a fight for all of us.
But you've been telling us, look, we've got a Democratic Congress, we've got a peaceman under the Senate, they're cutting us, and we'll be fighting every bit of the time.
And he said, I know that there's a career there, but he could count on my friendship 100%.
And I said, Russell, I would personally 100% count on that.
And he said, yeah, it's all right.
So I didn't know.
So I said, yeah, I don't know how much.
Well, I doubt it, but I know him.
Well, he was over here when I came in for him a small time.
No, I wasn't there.
Anyway.
Well, you get in my best decision.
I would imagine if he were there, I have no doubt about what he did.
He was realistic and pragmatic.
Nevertheless...
The same thing, my great affection for French.
But it is true.
I got, I believe, sent by our friend.
Our problem is we're in a nest of enemies of the United Nations.
All of which, I always say, non-French.
All of which, for that reason, that's it.
It'll set in motion a chain of action.
The really interesting thing is here that, for example,
It hasn't happened yet.
I thought it was an uproar.
It's an action on China with all its positions gone.
It's a grand event.
It's an uproar in this country, you know.
I realize that we've had very little hawkish reaction against him.
I think one of the luckiest things about him is that he is a lucky guy.
Right here, for example, is the president of our Congress.
There are also our all Congressmen and Senators in their positions.
They're all home run.
He's fighting.
He said they said it's fine.
He's fighting.
I can't explain it because I don't want to do it.
Unless people have just put them to the room.
Unless people have just put them to the room.
Like they responded to the last room.
You know, they had a very little foot in the last room.
The people wanted it so badly, it didn't mean a thing.
He went up 12th March in the polls.
Two months later, he went down where he wasn't supposed to.
But people loved it.
They said, gee, peace, peace, peace.
It was like Vietnam.
And that's what he made for us.
I think this is one of the most amazing things.
He helped the Chinese.
He had Bob.
Let me tell you a secret word, I don't want to improve the problem, but the whole China community, I have been put in service against, aren't agreeing with what they were against.
They're not.
And then, therefore, now, at this point, they were against it a year ago, they were against my name, and so forth, because
The Russian.
Yes, I remember that we were making this special drive.
Not that, but this too.
And they said, watch out, they're traveling all the way.
But now, you see, here it hits the Russians.
We will know in a few months how much.
I don't know.
I'm very worried about that.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But my point is, Bob, we've done all this
But we haven't done it to hurt the old man harder than I have done it.
We've done it.
We've done it.
We've done it.
We've done it.
We've done it.
We've done it.
We've done it.
I'm going for a commercially strictly, because this, my trip has been planned before I do anything about this.
We're building a factory, a corner factory.
We're building a factory there.
I'm working on an ordinary category.
Is there any work at all that we can do on it?
I don't think so.
Do you want to try it?
I know Charles.
He's fine.
He knew that we were there.
He knows we're going to do it.
We're going to do it.
I told Charles, I told Charles I would get him.
Oh, well, that's all we can do.
I don't have a letter.
I don't think you should do it.
Well, one day I'd like to ask, how shall I handle the notes that you're writing?
You know, the box of green.
You know, I was going to go out there before I... Well, I'll tell you, I don't want to be...
I don't want to be devious about it.
I just want to hear from you first.
Before you tell them, what I would like for you to do is to say, Marshall, I'm going a little early, and I'd like to, and I'd just like to make it, I think I'd be most effective if you told me you had a problem with me.
I think you should say it.
Oh, I didn't already.
No.
Don't you think so?
I'm sure.
You see, you've had a talk with me and that I've asked you to make it totally personal and put nothing in a table or anything like that.
I'm going to come back and report to you first because I don't expect you to handle the old man.
and an actress off the hall, could I be very well deceptive and say that I thought in my conversation with you that you seemed to have a very good understanding of the department?
Exactly.
Oh yeah, that's what I thought.
Oh yes, you could say, no you should say that I said that the, that the, that the, that the, that the, that the, that the, that the, that the, that the, that the, that the, that the, that the, that the,
very very persuasive and basically the question is now personal that I feel is very important to handle this personal and there's nothing that you and I are telling you about without a letter without a letter you have no instructions and you're going to tell the GMO that you have no authority you're not the same with the ambassador
When you return, you report to me directly and then I, of course, will then, and I won't lie, because they're going to fill in our income.
After you and I talk.
But when you return, I want to hear it directly from you to get the judgment.
Then we'll get Bill and our income.
They all have it all.
They're not, we're not trying to go around stating that we're just, what we're trying to do is accomplish something that I'm sure, look, they won't cross-state on this because they know that this memorandum is the only one they're running around with.
They're running back on this.
George Bush has done it now.
You know, that's what he's doing now.
He's battling around.
So I don't, and I'm afraid that he will get the impression that it's a fatal temptation.
You're in a position where you can say, the president has not made a decision.
The arguments have been made.
And now, he's standing alone here.
Now, what can we do?
The way I'm having a contact is to have a child
perhaps tell him that the female was just lying there in the corner of the room.
And that's the impression I made.
No, you, let me say, I know, you know McConaughey well enough, and I know McConaughey well enough.
You just tell him, McConaughey, that I want you to have the law.
And if that is what you finish,
I have no objection at all to your putting him in on the conversation, but he's not here to report.
He needs to know.
Well, but... No, no, that's what...
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and not trying to find the enemy.
It's funny how those things pop out.
I want you to tell me, there is an absolutely noisiest emotion in any of the three of us.
That's reality.
Particularly that only you, and he, know that there's an effect.
That's right.
And I think that is a possible way to move.
Now that he's just written this map, we may have to still go.
Well, this doesn't cost that of anything.
Well, it's the best chance to do it.
I thought it was possible to just go in directly with the economy, until before you went to the Latin American nation as well.
If McConaughey was good, except it's too official.
It's awfully hard on him.
Too official?
Well, you know, it's the point is that you don't know that he's talking to the record company.
With you, he's talking to the whole thing.
If you can tell him, I'll forget about you.
The position will be just in Congress, whatever you say.
Okay?
The only other, the analogy I have is, you know, the books you wrote, you know, talking to me about the North African outbreak, you know, studies, and I said, I was going to say nothing, but take care of the state.
And I said, gee whiz, you know, I support that.
How's he going to take it?
He said, I'll take care of Cordell.
This is no problem, because Bill, Bill is all for the mission.
Everybody's for the mission.
I have decided, in my own mind,
Knowing that GMO has a better deal with us than all these other people, that it's very important that all the chance for us to go into the community first.
You know, the Chinese are, they put a great stake in personal one-on-one career launching on the ground.
Absolutely.
And actually, this is in the zone, isn't it?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Well, actually, we're going to go to China, but I'm rolling.
Well, that's good.
I mean, that doesn't work for you.
I thought we were going to go to China.
I thought we were going to go to China.
This will happen.
I'll show you what it does.
Massive impact.
This will work out fine.
The only way it'll work is the way we work.
Frankly, I'm not so sure that our best strategy may not be to let ourselves get deceived.
This may work out...
that we first give up the China position, which is at least the principle, and then we lose anyone.
Because it may be that the Chinese don't like the idea of a two-time system, but rather they see that and get another one-time system.
I'll tell you what happened to Johnson in 1967.
You know, that's when he had that problem with the war and the elections.
So there you have it.
On the other hand, in 1947, he dropped to 45, 42, and 5.
By the 41 in April, he really went up the plate.
What was his real last name?
I have 39.
44-40 to go through a cover market.
We've never gone this far before.
Listen to this.
My mother's just left here.
Listen to this.
44-40.
I was happy.
That's original.
Listen to this.
Ladies and gentlemen.
Two thirty-five.
August.
Two months later.
Eight-nine.
Forty-seven.
A very nice forty-seven.
That's where the last thing happened.
We had long come down from here.
I think the war had caught up to him through Glassboro.
But my point is, that goddamn silly meeting at Glassboro, here at Johnson's, fighting just to stay even in the cold, it was a little bit more.
It was 44-40.
The thing shot him up in 52-35.
August 39-47, September 39-47, October 38-50, and 41-49.
I just showed you what Bob Murphy said, hundreds of pieces.
And it's why we've got to play every damn card we can in a way that doesn't produce just a quick trip to Glassboro.
was not worth a damn.
It's a lousy thing.
But if we can have a summit that produces something, we're going to be really flying in October.
That's right.
The announcement of the summit brings up five points.
No doubt about it.
I don't think that changes much.
It's not so much what I think stunts them all the time.
A sector of time session, yeah, and I gave them help with, and a sector of time session they have.
You know, frankly, when you were talking to me about negotiations, I thought you were just trying to avoid the deadline, but now maybe you know what you're doing.
I told you if the agents move, then suddenly...
Don't get greedy with that.
Remember now.
We're going to find out all of a sudden whether or not the POW issue is going to be present.
We'll find out.
We'll know when it happens.
You're right.
We're waiting to see it.
I think that when he comes back, if he doesn't call you in a day or two, I don't know how he's going to focus.
I don't know how he's going to focus.
I don't know how he's going to focus.
But I'll play a tough game with him.
I'll tell him it's not going to happen to me.
I'll tell him it's not going to happen to me.
I'll tell him it's not going to happen to me.
I'll tell him it's not going to happen to me.
I'll tell him it's not going to happen to me.
I'll tell him it's not going to happen to me.
You know, I said, look, what if the president had announced 18,000 of our people to speed up the schedule by maybe two months?
What if, what if, what if both South Vietnam and Vietnam are running a race with ourselves?
We are moving at the highest responsible rate.
I said, if you want to recommend that we get out immediately, then I can understand.
If we get out responsibly, we have to do it at the highest responsibility.
Centuries were sitting there and it was good.
Peterson told them that you think Russia is now
China considers Soviet Union to be its number one and we are number two
I don't know what he's saying.
I mean, it is my opinion.
That's what I told him to do, to say it as a judgment of how they look at it without mentioning you.
I said, that's fine.
But the Russians may be getting a little hysterical.
They're cold-blooded.
They may not be hysterical.
I'm not at all confused with them.
I mean, if they get hysterical, all right.
They understand the tough, cold game, and we're going to tell them that they want to talk about provocative attacks.
Sure.
We're ready.
In fact, I told the president that before he died.
I said it would have to be to be threatened.
I know, but...
That isn't a bad thing to get across.
Yes, that's China.
Because they just broke up.
What's that got to do with it?
They said, if there's anything to contact them, they're not going to do it.
I thought it was a secret contract.
It was a secret contract.
Right.