Conversation 025-069

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Hello.

Governor Milliken, sir.

Yeah.

Mr. President?

Hi, how are you?

Fine, how are you?

I understand you're on a bus.

I'd say the whole state is.

Let me tell you what, I just talked to John Ehrlichman and we've been going over this.

First, you can say that naturally, of course, you and I talked and that I expressed great concern about this order and that I have asked the Attorney General, Clint East, for an opinion.

to whether or not the new legislation that that amendment to the higher education act would apply now it is my own opinion uh as of this time and it is the opinion of the legal people here at the white house that the provision of the new legislation will not

be adequate to cover the Detroit case, I'm sorry to say.

So, but any event, we are asking the Attorney General to give us his opinion to see what the situation is.

The second point that you make is that I think this clearly demonstrates the need for

since the issue at best is cloudy as to whether or not this legislation that I'll be looking at next week to determine whether or not this clearly demonstrates the need for the moratorium legislation that I've asked the Congress to enact and that that legislation is there at the Congress it could be passed swiftly and could

have effect before the school year begins see that's that's the reason why why I went the more well among others one of the reasons I went the moratorium route rather than the constitutional amendment route it's a very pragmatic one that a constitutional amendment just takes too long and it isn't perhaps it has perhaps other problems but the moratorium deals with it now

and would directly handle matters like the Detroit case because it covers all federal court actions.

so in a nutshell as I would put it I could you could say let me say I've followed the case very closely I noted the order it is and I can state with and this I can state this without intervening at all in the case by simply stating that the order is one

would clearly be one which would be covered by the moratorium which I have requested that the moratorium would clearly block this block the implementation of this case if the Congress were to act and that I have also asked the Attorney General this afternoon specifically to examine the provision the amendment passed by the Congress the higher education bill to see whether it might apply however

Our preliminary opinion on that point is that it would not.

So that's where we stand.

Certainly in the present case and all around the country, there is that need for a moratorium to get some kind of a national standard or a definition.

And hopefully we can somehow reach the point where the Supreme Court can establish the guidelines.

Now, as far as the Supreme Court is concerned, there is no way that the court...

move on this situation their term ends in two weeks and they have no busing case before them at the present time they will not come back into session until October so as far as the Supreme Court is concerned there is you know there's no relief there I mean I want you to know exactly what situation is as I see it at the present time so my own feeling is that I mean just without trying to

tell you a little bit about my own feeling is that your best position at the present time is to say that and you're that this shows the need for a moratorium and you might say that you hope that the other you would hope that the other legislation may apply but yeah but you you but you are at liberty to say if you desire to that because I have found this to be the case that our

that the prospects of its applying are we our legal egos say that there's a serious doubt but we're asking the justice department for a an opinion on it yes that's good that would be that's very helpful right right i i uh

And you see, the thing we want to do is to put the monkey on the Congress's back here.

Doggone it, they've had this hanging around here for several months.

If they allow the school year to begin, and now Detroit is an aggravated case, you know, there are a lot of other cases all over the country like it, and people are going to wake up some morning in September and find their school district in a shambles, you see?

You just can't do that, in my opinion.

I mean, I just think it's wrong.

It is, and this thing has reached a point of white heat in Michigan, as you can imagine.

Well, look at the situation we have to face it.

I mean, in a place like Wisconsin, they could say that the Wallace vote was due to the fact that he was a populist.

But in Michigan, you know that 51% of the Democrats who voted in that primary were voting because of busing, weren't they?

That's right.

And Michigan is considered to be one of the most liberal of the industrial states.

Of all the industrial states, it is perhaps the most liberal one.

And so that shows you what the people think, at least.

Well, I'm certainly, like you, not interested in turning the clock back, but I think there is a terrible need for the moratorium that you have proposed to try to establish the guidelines.

That's right.

would be helpful all over the country.

I appreciate it very much.

And also, let me say this.

I, of course, feel very strongly about, as you know, I've just been an opponent for busing for racial balance, as it's called.

And the reason I'm an opponent of it is because of my great concern about education, putting it first.

So my position has been long clear on this point, but you could say this, that you could say that in your conversation with me that I said that my moratorium legislation that I recommended to the Congress four months ago was specifically directed against

and would cover this kind of case.

You can say that.

Good.

And people say, what do I think about it?

That's what it is, and that keeps me out of commenting on a case while it's still in the courts.

Right.

See?

John raised the question with me whether your position generally was understood.

Yeah, I wonder if it is.

And I would say, Mr. President, that it is.

I would say it clearly is.

And I think, frankly, comments of the kind that you've made here will be very helpful as we communicate this.

Right.

And particularly your views on what the moratorium, as you've proposed, are designed specifically to do.

And you can also say that I am concerned that the language, and I'm studying still the higher education bill, I am concerned that the language of the busing provision is so weak

but I have to ask the Attorney General for an opinion on it.

Right.

It's very weak language, and it's totally inadequate.

Okay?

Thank you very much.

Well, and incidentally, after the things of...

I'll have John Ehrlichman keep in touch with it.

After it's, you know...

rocked along a little while, I'll have him take a trip up there to look it over.

That'll give us another opportunity to, you know, to meet with the reasonable people and see what we can do.

Good.

If anything can be done, I don't know.

That'd be very helpful, I think.

Of course.

Okay.

Thank you.

Goodbye.