{"conversationCode":"250-016","tapeNumber":250,"conversationNumber":16,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-250-016","startDateTime":"1971-04-16T20:15:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-04-16T20:27:00.000Z","startDate":"16-Apr-1971","startTime":"3:15 PM","endDate":"16-Apr-1971","endTime":"3:27 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On April 16, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:15 pm to 3:27 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 250-016 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 250-16\n\nDate: April 16, 1971\nTime: 3:15 pm - 3:27 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Ronald L. Ziegler\n\n     Preparation for editors’ meeting\n          -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] surveillance\n                -Patrick J. Buchanan\n                -Questions\n                -Ziegler’s responses to press\n                      -News conference, April 16, 1971\n                      -”False impression” of FBI as spying on law-abiding citizens\n                -President’s possible responses\n                      -Richard A. Moore\n                -Washington Post article\n                -President’s instructions for Buchanan\n                -Press irresponsibility\n                -Surveillance\n                -Washington Post\n\n                     -Scare story\n                           -Cameras on White House\n                           -Lafayette Park\n               -Press corps\n               -Instructions to Ziegler\n               -Justice Department\n                     -J. Edgar Hoover\n                     -Wiretapping\n               -FBI\n               -[New York Times story of April 16, 1971]\n                     -Allegation of FBI monitoring telephone conversation [involving John\n                           Dowdy]\n               -Wiretapping\n                     -President\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n[Previous National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number\nLPRN-T-MDR-2014-016. Segment declassified on 06/19/2018. Archivist: DR]\n[National Security]\n[250-016-w001]\n[Duration: 7s]\n\n     Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]\n          -Aleksei N. Kosygin\n          -Anatoliy F. Dobrynin\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n     Preparation for editors’ meeting\n          -FBI surveillance\n                -President’s possible responses\n                -Robert F. (“Bobby”) Kennedy\n                      -Use of wiretapping\n                -Edmund S. Muskie and Charles H. Percy\n                -Administration’s policy\n                -President’s possible responses to press\n                -Phony issue\n                -Richard G. Kleindienst\n                -Press\n\n                       -Peter Lisagor\n                       -New York Times story\n                 -Ziegler’s response to question at news conference\n                       -FBI’s responsibility\n                 -Crimes\n                 -Arrests\n                 -National security\n                 -Press\n                 -Need for firmness\n\nZiegler left at 3:27 pm","filename":["250-016.mp3"],"tapeStart":"03:30:25","tapeEnd":"03:36:27","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"250-014","nextCode":"250-017","transcript":[{"start":54.98,"end":63.33,"text":"So I wanted to get that slide."},{"start":63.65,"end":68.11,"text":"Well, I didn't want to do it."},{"start":68.22,"end":71.32,"text":"I didn't want to do it."},{"start":71.88,"end":74.82,"text":"I didn't want to do it."},{"start":77.32,"end":84.2,"text":"No, I don't agree with that."},{"start":84.36,"end":90.79,"text":"No, I don't agree with that."},{"start":91.37,"end":95.05,"text":"No, I don't agree with that."},{"start":95.21,"end":98.71,"text":"I wouldn't kick their balls off."},{"start":107.04,"end":111.06,"text":"Well, I think it's highly irresponsible to raise this issue."},{"start":111.5,"end":114.14,"text":"They know this is a police state."},{"start":114.22,"end":116.87,"text":"They know they're not spying on innocent people."},{"start":117.01,"end":117.87,"text":"What do they want you to do?"},{"start":117.89,"end":119.19,"text":"Say, well, we think it's bad."},{"start":119.23,"end":119.55,"text":"No, no, no."},{"start":119.57,"end":120.69,"text":"I don't mean we're sorry."},{"start":120.73,"end":121.25,"text":"No, no, no."},{"start":121.27,"end":122.11,"text":"It's just repression."},{"start":122.39,"end":122.63,"text":"No, sir."},{"start":122.77,"end":123.11,"text":"No, sir."},{"start":123.15,"end":123.39,"text":"No, sir."},{"start":123.41,"end":123.73,"text":"Now, go on."},{"start":123.75,"end":125.69,"text":"Get away from there."},{"start":125.75,"end":133.04,"text":"The Washington Post is, I'm going to name them specifically, a higher responsibility than trying to run a scare story."},{"start":133.9,"end":138.14,"text":"picture of a camera on the White House with the idea that babies wouldn't be allowed in a park?"},{"start":141.41,"end":142.07,"text":"That's what I suggested."},{"start":142.75,"end":143.57,"text":"You were just right."},{"start":143.59,"end":144.81,"text":"You were just right."},{"start":144.85,"end":146.21,"text":"You should have been tougher."},{"start":147.35,"end":148.91,"text":"Oh, no, no, no."},{"start":149.01,"end":151.59,"text":"I don't got that."},{"start":151.63,"end":154.31,"text":"I've taken them right in the balls."},{"start":154.79,"end":167.63,"text":"Oh, my God, that people in the press corps, they're going to get it right in the ass and hard."},{"start":167.78,"end":169.1,"text":"I mean hard."},{"start":169.48,"end":173.22,"text":"Oh, no, no, no."},{"start":176.8,"end":178.32,"text":"He charges, they have his line."},{"start":178.4,"end":179.88,"text":"Well, does he know the crew?"},{"start":179.94,"end":184.7,"text":"He saw it, said that he had been with them the next time he said something."},{"start":184.72,"end":185.19,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":185.21,"end":186.32,"text":"I was going to send him through."},{"start":186.34,"end":188.59,"text":"Maybe he probably just thought it was."},{"start":188.61,"end":190.33,"text":"It didn't happen."},{"start":190.39,"end":191.31,"text":"Well, in 1970, why?"},{"start":191.55,"end":192.57,"text":"What was he doing?"},{"start":192.65,"end":196.17,"text":"Well, there was an investigation."},{"start":196.29,"end":198.39,"text":"He was some sort of detective player."},{"start":198.43,"end":199.53,"text":"He didn't know the capital."},{"start":199.55,"end":201.69,"text":"It was the other way."},{"start":201.71,"end":204.69,"text":"See, there was a place on the former side of the line."},{"start":204.72,"end":204.96,"text":"Right."},{"start":205,"end":206.02,"text":"Say, of course."},{"start":206.91,"end":207.85,"text":"Well, yes, they tap me."},{"start":207.91,"end":210.61,"text":"Oh, the farm here, I call it."},{"start":210.63,"end":213.69,"text":"The Soviet embassy taps."},{"start":213.72,"end":216.64,"text":"Every time Kissinger talks to Kosygin, it's tapped."},{"start":216.66,"end":217.22,"text":"It's tapped."},{"start":217.52,"end":219.54,"text":"Why do they want to be slob?"},{"start":221.22,"end":223,"text":"No, I use it for the other guy."},{"start":223.12,"end":225.91,"text":"I'm a slob, I don't use it for the other guy."},{"start":225.95,"end":231.05,"text":"I'm not going to let them get away with not doing anything."},{"start":232.1,"end":233.34,"text":"You know what most chaps were?"},{"start":233.36,"end":234.44,"text":"I'm going to say so."},{"start":234.96,"end":238.5,"text":"During the period of Robert Kennedy's attorney general."},{"start":238.52,"end":238.54,"text":"1961-1961."},{"start":240.61,"end":245.55,"text":"Joe, in 1963, there were 100 taps a year, and one in 1990."},{"start":245.81,"end":246.59,"text":"Great."},{"start":246.63,"end":247.41,"text":"Joe, don't you worry."},{"start":247.43,"end":248.03,"text":"I'll back that up."},{"start":248.05,"end":255.37,"text":"The point I make is that Boggs, or Muskie, or New Jersey, can create a climate of discomfort."},{"start":255.39,"end":262.06,"text":"The administration is motivated to tap and spy on law-abiding citizens, and that simply is not our policy."},{"start":263.42,"end":266.64,"text":"I'm just pointing to our political vote."},{"start":267.62,"end":268.74,"text":"Directly, I'm not going to do that."},{"start":270.41,"end":278.97,"text":"Say I agree completely, and they ask me if I would do it otherwise, and they ask me directly, I'll give it to them."},{"start":278.99,"end":283.3,"text":"They don't have any problem with that issue."},{"start":283.78,"end":285.08,"text":"They're creating the only issue."},{"start":285.1,"end":287.34,"text":"They have a lot of interest in that."},{"start":287.76,"end":288.78,"text":"They know better than that."},{"start":288.88,"end":289.84,"text":"Who asked this question?"},{"start":290.64,"end":291.18,"text":"List it over."},{"start":291.36,"end":292.76,"text":"It sounds like it."},{"start":293.22,"end":294.36,"text":"No, it was a question."},{"start":294.64,"end":295.96,"text":"Why is it part of the American story?"},{"start":296.11,"end":298.31,"text":"The air company."},{"start":298.88,"end":301.86,"text":"So they were just encouraging the policy."},{"start":302.02,"end":305.36,"text":"And I'm saying, you know, it's a consideration."},{"start":305.4,"end":310.4,"text":"And so it's fine for the U.S. to name its citizens."},{"start":310.48,"end":310.94,"text":"But the I.S.U."},{"start":311.02,"end":312.8,"text":"has a responsibility."},{"start":312.92,"end":313.22,"text":"And crime."},{"start":313.26,"end":315.18,"text":"Where it's crimes, we get courted."},{"start":315.3,"end":318.34,"text":"And there have been 300, including 100 arrests as a result of treatment."},{"start":318.42,"end":322.3,"text":"The best job they have to do is court them."},{"start":322.32,"end":327.17,"text":"In the case of the national security, which includes domestic security,"},{"start":330.45,"end":331.63,"text":"That's right."},{"start":331.75,"end":333.03,"text":"That's right."},{"start":352.48,"end":352.89,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":352.94,"end":353.26,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":353.3,"end":353.58,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":353.62,"end":354.04,"text":"Thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler to strategize for an upcoming meeting with news editors regarding media criticism of FBI surveillance practices. Nixon expressed frustration over what he deemed irresponsible reporting by the Washington Post and the New York Times, particularly allegations of domestic spying on innocent citizens. He instructed Ziegler to forcefully defend the administration's policy by contrasting it with historical wiretapping practices during the Robert Kennedy era and emphasizing the necessity of surveillance for national security and crime prevention.","topics":["FBI","Surveillance","Wiretapping","Press Relations","National Security","Washington Post","Robert F. Kennedy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T11:42:10.513Z"},"topicSlugs":["fbi","surveillance","wiretapping","press-relations","national-security","washington-post","robert-f-kennedy"],"audioDurationSec":362,"audioFiles":[{"file":"250-016.mp3","bytes":14482994,"durationSec":361.94,"bitrate":320119,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:36.696Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/250-016.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/250-016","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/250/conversation-250-016","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}