{"conversationCode":"250-025","tapeNumber":250,"conversationNumber":25,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-250-025","startDateTime":"1971-04-16T22:33:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-04-16T22:34:00.000Z","startDate":"16-Apr-1971","startTime":"5:33 PM","endDate":"16-Apr-1971","endTime":"5:34 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\");","description":"On April 16, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:33 pm to 5:34 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 250-025 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 250-25\n\nDate: April 16, 1971\nTime: 5:33 pm - 5:34 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President talked with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n\n     President’s conversation with Henry A. Kissinger\n          -James L. Buckley\n          -John A. Scali\n                -Views on Vietnam\n                     -Withdrawal\n                -Need for Kissinger to speak with Scali\n\n               -Instructions to Haldeman to meet with Scali, Kissinger, and Ronald L. Ziegler\n               -Instructions for Kissinger\n               -[Unintelligible name]\n               -People’s Republic of China [PRC] initiative\n                     -Scali’s views\n                     -President’s views\n                     -Kissinger\n               -Instructions to Haldeman\n                     -Scali, Kissinger, and Ziegler\n               -Clark MacGregor and George P. Shultz\n               -Congress\n                     -Possible meeting with President\n               -Instructions for Scali","filename":["250-025.mp3"],"tapeStart":"03:54:08","tapeEnd":"03:56:41","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")"],"prevCode":"250-024","nextCode":"250-026","transcript":[{"start":1.1,"end":8.48,"text":"I've been talking to Henry, you know, I've been bugging him to be sure that he keeps scaling it for him, but I don't know whether he's doing it enough."},{"start":8.52,"end":11.46,"text":"He's got some ideas which are absolutely nuts."},{"start":11.48,"end":18.21,"text":"I mean, he wants to move it, and now he's going to throw all the division and rums and all that sort of thing there."},{"start":18.25,"end":21.61,"text":"We don't want to stir up the amount now, but he doesn't understand that, see."},{"start":21.63,"end":24.67,"text":"Somebody's got to talk to him about it, see."},{"start":24.71,"end":25.93,"text":"He's got to set a talk to."},{"start":26.61,"end":28.63,"text":"He's got to set a talk to, set a talk to."},{"start":28.67,"end":29.77,"text":"The way to do it,"},{"start":30.85,"end":35.17,"text":"The way to do it is that you bring him and Henry in from the Iran Ministry."},{"start":36.32,"end":39.56,"text":"And Henry has gotten to sit there and talk to Schiskelli."},{"start":39.6,"end":45.6,"text":"Now, if he doesn't do it, because Schiskelli has said he'll do it, he's not able to do it, you see."},{"start":45.64,"end":48,"text":"But I managed to say, he feels it."},{"start":48.02,"end":53.18,"text":"Now, actually, if I go to China, then he wants to make more of it, which Henry said, and I said, well, that was my role."},{"start":53.34,"end":56.44,"text":"Well, I don't think we should trust you at this point."},{"start":56.52,"end":58.98,"text":"My own view is that that's a mistake."},{"start":59,"end":60.5,"text":"I think you're wrong."},{"start":61.77,"end":73.16,"text":"And that's what Scali sees, that we have not done enough."},{"start":73.22,"end":85.97,"text":"And Henry doesn't like to be reminded of the fact that by the art we have."},{"start":86.05,"end":89.61,"text":"So, but let me ask you to do this."},{"start":90.57,"end":103.63,"text":"I don't want to have to get in the middle of this and go, I don't want to have to sit here and have to go to everybody and go to all these things because I hear it more than anybody."},{"start":103.69,"end":105.38,"text":"It's valid and angry and wrong."},{"start":105.39,"end":105.67,"text":"There it is."},{"start":105.69,"end":112.72,"text":"And about this subject, I don't get a greater, I don't get it in Schultz, I don't get it in others, I don't know a goddamn thing about Ford Post, and I don't want that anymore."},{"start":112.76,"end":115.34,"text":"I don't want the competition, I don't care anymore."},{"start":116.07,"end":119.21,"text":"The question of something that's unaccomplished is a matter of ."},{"start":119.31,"end":122.43,"text":"You know, meaning that this certain darkness was important."},{"start":122.91,"end":131.69,"text":"You know, as we walk through the day after day, you know, it's contrary to what there is for people of some kind in that relationship with God."},{"start":131.84,"end":139.6,"text":"And that first element of darkness, you know, you say, you know, there's cancer in that place."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon directs H. R. Haldeman to coordinate a meeting between Henry Kissinger, Ronald Ziegler, and journalist John Scali to manage Scali’s views on Vietnam and the administration's China initiative. Nixon expresses frustration with Scali’s perspectives and Kissinger’s handling of the situation, insisting that Haldeman facilitate the discussion to align their messaging. The President explicitly tasks Haldeman with managing these communications to shield himself from the direct conflict and ensure policy consistency.","topics":["John Scali","Vietnam War","People's Republic of China","Henry Kissinger","White House communications"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T11:43:00.957Z"},"topicSlugs":["john-scali","vietnam-war","peoples-republic-of-china","henry-kissinger","white-house-communications"],"audioDurationSec":140,"audioFiles":[{"file":"250-025.mp3","bytes":5618079,"durationSec":140.31,"bitrate":320313,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:38.006Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/250-025.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/250-025","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/250/conversation-250-025","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}