{"conversationCode":"251-009","tapeNumber":251,"conversationNumber":9,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-251-009","startDateTime":"1971-04-20T19:55:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-04-20T20:00:00.000Z","startDate":"20-Apr-1971","startTime":"2:55 PM","endDate":"20-Apr-1971","endTime":"3:00 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On April 20, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:55 pm to 3:00 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 251-009 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 251-9\n\nDate: April 20, 1971\nTime: 2:55 pm - 3:00 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Ronald L. Ziegler\n\n[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under court order from\nDecember 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access [SA] 8, Ronald V. Dellums, et al. v.\nJames M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records Administration\nproduced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]\n\n[End of transcript]\n\nZiegler left at 3:00 pm","filename":["251-009.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:07:04","tapeEnd":"00:10:07","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"251-008","nextCode":"251-010","transcript":[{"start":0.59,"end":2.63,"text":"I'm quite sure you did not say"},{"start":23.9,"end":25.26,"text":"I was quite sure of that."},{"start":25.28,"end":28.79,"text":"I was quite sure of that, and I talked to several others who were in the meeting."},{"start":28.82,"end":38.31,"text":"They said, no, sir, I'm in here, but I want you to check directly with you, because then I can say I'm talking to them."},{"start":38.33,"end":39.75,"text":"It wasn't even discussed."},{"start":39.79,"end":41.61,"text":"Why don't you quote McGregor?"},{"start":41.93,"end":42.63,"text":"He was there."},{"start":42.83,"end":44.55,"text":"The subject was not even brought up."},{"start":44.87,"end":47.17,"text":"We didn't discuss the Vietnam War."},{"start":47.25,"end":48.49,"text":"You mean his demonstration?"},{"start":48.51,"end":51.15,"text":"I thought he brought it up."},{"start":51.69,"end":52.81,"text":"It wasn't even..."},{"start":53.34,"end":54.4,"text":"It wasn't on the agenda."},{"start":54.44,"end":55.82,"text":"It wasn't brought up by anybody."},{"start":55.94,"end":57.8,"text":"I can bring it up."},{"start":57.88,"end":59.32,"text":"It wasn't all simple, Scott."},{"start":59.36,"end":59.76,"text":"No, no, no."},{"start":59.98,"end":62.29,"text":"It was splattered around town."},{"start":62.31,"end":66.11,"text":"I would have hit it pretty hard."},{"start":66.13,"end":66.91,"text":"It was said."},{"start":66.93,"end":69.31,"text":"The president's never said it."},{"start":69.33,"end":69.55,"text":"No, it is."},{"start":69.69,"end":71.65,"text":"It's a matter."},{"start":71.89,"end":76.62,"text":"That was not being discussed at all in that meeting or any other meeting."},{"start":76.8,"end":78.68,"text":"The president has never said it."},{"start":79.8,"end":81.03,"text":"No, no, no, don't say that."},{"start":81.06,"end":84.45,"text":"It's a matter that was not discussed at that meeting or any other meeting."},{"start":84.47,"end":87.05,"text":"And it was not discussed in that meeting."},{"start":88.45,"end":91.74,"text":"I don't know how many there are."},{"start":91.76,"end":94.94,"text":"It's one of the slightest ideas."},{"start":94.96,"end":95.62,"text":"But it is enough."},{"start":95.64,"end":96.89,"text":"But you're being quoted the same."},{"start":97.5,"end":100.16,"text":"Only 30% of those that are juried."},{"start":101.62,"end":104.24,"text":"I've never heard you say that."},{"start":104.26,"end":110.59,"text":"During the slightest idea of what they were, I would assume that there are some that are not, but I would be very surprised if they were all there."},{"start":110.65,"end":112.99,"text":"But we haven't even discussed this."},{"start":113.03,"end":114.75,"text":"We don't have any numbers."},{"start":114.77,"end":116.25,"text":"We have no reason, no knowledge of it."},{"start":116.27,"end":122.28,"text":"The matter was not even discussed this morning, and it's never been discussed in any meeting that I know of."},{"start":122.75,"end":124.36,"text":"But I'd like to nail who the hell's on it."},{"start":124.44,"end":125.16,"text":"Who is it?"},{"start":125.18,"end":126.08,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":126.1,"end":126.7,"text":"I'm a smart guy now."},{"start":129.95,"end":132.47,"text":"Is it somebody from the White House?"},{"start":132.53,"end":133.09,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":133.19,"end":138.2,"text":"No, really, I mean, that's, uh, somebody may be just trying to, trying to jump us."},{"start":139.16,"end":140.36,"text":"Who was in that meeting this morning?"},{"start":141.06,"end":144.78,"text":"Who, who the hell, uh... Well, the point is that you did not say that."},{"start":145.78,"end":146.76,"text":"Forget what I said."},{"start":147.08,"end":150.04,"text":"We did not discuss the demonstrations at all."},{"start":150.06,"end":152.47,"text":"We discussed it."},{"start":153.07,"end":156.33,"text":"We've been brought up about the demonstrations."},{"start":156.85,"end":158.03,"text":"I think 30% of that is something new."},{"start":158.05,"end":159.83,"text":"I think the vice president said it."},{"start":159.87,"end":161.71,"text":"Maybe he said it."},{"start":161.75,"end":162.39,"text":"Did he?"},{"start":162.41,"end":164.95,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":165.37,"end":166.15,"text":"He might have said it."},{"start":166.17,"end":167.97,"text":"But it's not been in the meeting."},{"start":168.01,"end":170.67,"text":"In the meeting, the matter of demonstration was not even discussed."},{"start":170.71,"end":172.73,"text":"You were there."},{"start":172.97,"end":173.73,"text":"The draft."},{"start":175.17,"end":178.51,"text":"Thank you, sir."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler consulted to coordinate a consistent public response regarding whether the administration had discussed upcoming protest demonstrations during a recent meeting. Seeking to mitigate negative press coverage, the two men verified that the Vietnam War and related demonstrations were not on the formal agenda and had not been addressed by the President. Nixon prioritized identifying the source of unauthorized leaks or misinformation regarding these meetings to ensure the official narrative remained uniform.","topics":["Press Relations","Vietnam War Protests","Public Relations","White House Communications","Information Control"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T11:44:41.115Z"},"topicSlugs":["press-relations","vietnam-war-protests","public-relations","white-house-communications","information-control"],"audioDurationSec":179,"audioFiles":[{"file":"251-009.mp3","bytes":7163611,"durationSec":178.96,"bitrate":320233,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:36.695Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/251-009.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/251-009","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/251/conversation-251-009","catalogNaId":417183535,"catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417183535","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}