{"conversationCode":"252-041","tapeNumber":252,"conversationNumber":41,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-252-041","startDateTime":"1971-05-05T17:16:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-05-05T19:00:00.000Z","startDate":"5-May-1971","startTime":"1:16 PM","endDate":"5-May-1971","endTime":"3:00 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Gullander, Werner P.;","description":"On May 5, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Werner P. Gullander met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:16 pm and 3:00 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 252-041 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 252-41\n\nDate: May 5, 1971\nTime: Unknown between 1:16 pm and 3:00 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President talked with Werner P. Gullander\n\n[See Conversation No. 42-97]","filename":["252-041-splice.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:01:37","tapeEnd":"02:02:50","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Gullander, Werner P."],"prevCode":"252-040","nextCode":"252-042","tapeTranscriptFile":"252a.mp3,252b.mp3","transcriptBoundary":{"start":7300,"end":7470,"startMethod":"llm-alignment","endMethod":"llm-alignment"},"transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Richard Nixon met with National Association of Manufacturers President Werner P. Gullander to discuss the administration's economic policies and business-government relations. The conversation focused on addressing prevailing concerns within the industrial sector regarding economic stability and regulatory pressures. As no transcript is available, specific administrative actions or policy outcomes resulting from this dialogue remain undocumented.","topics":["Economic policy","National Association of Manufacturers","Business-government relations","Industrial sector","Werner P. Gullander"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T11:52:35.048Z"},"topicSlugs":["economic-policy","national-association-of-manufacturers","business-government-relations","industrial-sector","werner-p-gullander"],"audioDurationSec":173,"audioFiles":[{"file":"252-041-splice.mp3","bytes":2761523,"durationSec":172.98,"bitrate":127713,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:25.234Z","originalFilename":["252a.mp3","252b.mp3"],"spliceSource":{"spliceType":"bigtape","sourceFiles":["252a.mp3","252b.mp3"],"cutStart":7298.5,"cutEnd":7471.5,"adjustedStart":7298.5,"adjustedEnd":7471.5,"boundaryMethod":"llm-alignment","confidence":"medium","splicedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:25.234Z"},"transcript":[{"start":7296.95,"end":7300.69,"text":"He is the National Association of Manufacturers, N-A-M."},{"start":7300.72,"end":7304.16,"text":"He's here for me."},{"start":7311.09,"end":7320.95,"text":"Yeah, I just wanted to tell you that from Colson and others, I heard you've been doing some very effective work around, and I appreciate it very much."},{"start":7320.97,"end":7327.61,"text":"I started circulating some of those items, and I've been doing some broadcasts with your friends."},{"start":7327.63,"end":7330.66,"text":"Oh, there's a lot of good things."},{"start":7330.72,"end":7333.62,"text":"Hope you have some fun, though, too."},{"start":7334,"end":7338.72,"text":"Just so you have a little thirst for battle, at least, you know."},{"start":7340.39,"end":7342.69,"text":"Oh, uh, keep after it."},{"start":7342.73,"end":7348.21,"text":"We'll never give you a break, but if we can get about half a break, we'll be all right."},{"start":7348.31,"end":7348.89,"text":"Okay."},{"start":7348.91,"end":7349.49,"text":"Good job."},{"start":7350.23,"end":7350.85,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":7351.09,"end":7351.39,"text":"Hello."},{"start":7352.29,"end":7363.54,"text":"It's, uh, not an urgent thing, huh?"},{"start":7364.16,"end":7365.34,"text":"Call me when you can."},{"start":7365.36,"end":7366.16,"text":"That's right."},{"start":7367.6,"end":7369.06,"text":"Tell them it's not urgent, please."},{"start":7371.02,"end":7389.41,"text":"There's Gulliver, William Gulliver of the AM on that, and he called us for the... William Gulliver."},{"start":7390.13,"end":7391.79,"text":"Gulliver, G-U-L-L-A-M-D-E-R."},{"start":7391.87,"end":7395.61,"text":"He is the National Association of Manufacturers, N-A-M."},{"start":7396.91,"end":7399.09,"text":"He's here for me."},{"start":7402.35,"end":7412.84,"text":"I just wanted to tell you that all of our colleagues here have been most grateful for your help on our welfare reform and some of our other initiatives."},{"start":7413.04,"end":7420.9,"text":"And I know that it may cause you some problems, some of your members, but if you would know that I've been getting hard on the work requirements that have been mentioned."},{"start":7421.08,"end":7430.78,"text":"And because after all the purpose of our purpose is to get people off of welfare, not off, I think that they understand that a little bit in the message."},{"start":7432.7,"end":7435.8,"text":"You know, we've strengthened a great deal of the work required."},{"start":7435.84,"end":7443.77,"text":"I said, welfare workers, well people on welfare would have to take any kind of work, including so-called annual work, that gets home."},{"start":7443.91,"end":7453.25,"text":"I believe if a person is able to work, he ought to do anything to stay on bail as well."},{"start":7453.39,"end":7459.31,"text":"Anyway, we appreciate it and we hope that everything goes well."},{"start":7459.53,"end":7461.25,"text":"All right."},{"start":7462.49,"end":7464.25,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":7464.37,"end":7465.04,"text":"Okay."},{"start":7465.42,"end":7465.86,"text":"Bye."},{"start":7465.92,"end":7466.16,"text":"Bye."},{"start":7466.22,"end":7466.46,"text":"Bye."}],"transcriptConfidence":"medium","transcriptPrev":{"segments":34,"replacedAt":"2026-09-18T14:13:35.961Z"},"audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/252-041-splice.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/252-041","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/252/conversation-252-041","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}