{"conversationCode":"253-008","tapeNumber":253,"conversationNumber":8,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-253-008","startDateTime":"1971-05-21T22:34:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-05-21T23:05:00.000Z","startDate":"21-May-1971","startTime":"6:34 PM","endDate":"21-May-1971","endTime":"7:05 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Rebozo, Charles G. (\"Bebe\");","description":"On May 21, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles G. (\"Bebe\") Rebozo met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:34 pm and 7:05 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 253-008 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 253-8\n\nDate: May 21, 1971\nTime: Unknown between 6:34 pm and 7:05 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 09/11/2019.\n14m 7s segment cleared for release. 19s remain closed as 253-008-w001.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[253-008-w001]\n[Duration: 14m 7s]\n\n       Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]\n               -Left wingers\n                      -Edmund S. Muskie\n                      -J. William Fulbright\n               -The President's announcement\n                      -Effect\n                      -Edmund S. Muskie\n\n       Unknown item in office\n            -An unknown woman\n                    -Purchase\n            -The President’s recommendation\n\n       Photographs in office\n\n       William F. (“Billy”) Graham\n              -Overnight stay\n                      -Lyndon B. Johnson\n              -Supporter of the President\n\n       Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy\n             -Presidential nomination possibility\n\n             -Campaign style\n                   -Chappaquiddick incident\n\n      Castle in Spain\n              -Caretaker\n                      -Furnishing\n                      -Sons\n              -Possible purchase by Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo\n                      -Possible price\n\n      Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo's bank\n             -Future role for Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo\n                     -Salary\n\n      The President's health and work\n             -Compared with Lyndon B. Johnson\n\n      The President's office\n             -A Buddha from Vietnam\n             -Vice-Presidential items\n             -Mantel\n\n      Story related to Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo by George [surname unknown]\n              -Unknown Vice President\n                      -Salary\n              -The President’s time as Vice President\n                      -Finances\n\n******************************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal Returnable]\n[253-008-w001]\n[Duration: 19s]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n******************************************************************************\n\nPublic opinion\n        -Unknown attorney\n        -Press\n        -Washington, DC demonstrations [?]\n        -Congressmen\n\nJohn B. Connally\n       -The President’s opinion\n\nSpiro T. Agnew\n       -Future\n       -Possible resignation\n               -Constitutional requirements\n               -John B. Connally\n               -A review\n       -Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo's acquaintance\n\nJohn B. Connally [?]\n       -Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo’s opinion\n       -The President’s opinion\n              -Lyndon B. Johnson\n\nSpiro T. Agnew\n       -Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo's position\n       -Possible resignation\n       -The President’s opinion\n               -Unwilling to force out\n       -Possible resignation\n               -Press\n\n1972 campaign\n       -George C. Wallace\n       -John B. Connally\n       -Spiro T. Agnew\n               -Strength in the South\n       -John B. Connally\n               -Strength in the South\n       -Unknown cabinet member [John B. Connally] [?]\n               -Ability\n                       -Compared with John B. Connally and Spiro T. Agnew\n                       -Compared with William P. Rogers, Melvin R. Laird,\n                       -George W. Romney\n\n       The Presidency\n              -Difficulty\n\n******************************************************************************\n\nThe President and Rebozo left at 7:05 pm","filename":["253-008.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:19:43","tapeEnd":"00:37:30","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Rebozo, Charles G. (\"Bebe\")"],"prevCode":"253-007","nextCode":"253-009","transcript":[{"start":0.89,"end":6.89,"text":"But you know, me, all these left-handers, they say we weren't making any progress in this article."},{"start":6.97,"end":8.43,"text":"Muskie and Muskie and I have hearings."},{"start":8.65,"end":10.73,"text":"Both of us said, I don't need to take this."},{"start":10.75,"end":14.1,"text":"I don't want to talk about this."},{"start":14.14,"end":15.96,"text":"I'm not going to have this."},{"start":16.16,"end":21.04,"text":"You know, the guy, the guy who died so fast in that hall was really sorry for Muskie."},{"start":21.92,"end":22.58,"text":"Yeah, I love him."},{"start":22.6,"end":24.76,"text":"He was going to just die out all the other week."},{"start":24.82,"end":26.62,"text":"I don't know where to move with none of these guys."},{"start":26.66,"end":28.67,"text":"I don't know what the issue is."},{"start":28.69,"end":30.01,"text":"I don't know what the issue is."},{"start":31.03,"end":32.45,"text":"It looked as far as I said."},{"start":32.47,"end":35.83,"text":"I bet you're playing, you had something like that in the same one."},{"start":35.85,"end":36.63,"text":"Was it the same one?"},{"start":60.92,"end":62.12,"text":"Do you have a name?"},{"start":62.18,"end":65.22,"text":"Elaine Brown gave it to me."},{"start":65.26,"end":66.22,"text":"You can buy it."},{"start":66.24,"end":67.7,"text":"She bought it for me."},{"start":67.78,"end":69.13,"text":"It's the best thing in the world."},{"start":69.23,"end":73.15,"text":"It probably costs $100, but it's the greatest thing in the world."},{"start":73.95,"end":75.11,"text":"Do you ever see drugs?"},{"start":75.27,"end":76.23,"text":"There are lots of good things."},{"start":76.69,"end":78.42,"text":"There's the White House."},{"start":78.44,"end":79.42,"text":"There's the White House."},{"start":79.72,"end":81.88,"text":"There's the White House."},{"start":81.92,"end":83,"text":"There's the White House."},{"start":87.09,"end":87.47,"text":"I think that's"},{"start":133.2,"end":135.68,"text":"I'm awfully glad I have him, Billy."},{"start":135.76,"end":140.71,"text":"I'm sure Johnson probably had him spend the night every time he came."},{"start":140.76,"end":156.71,"text":"I don't do it for the reason that, you know, I'm just one pleasure here."},{"start":156.75,"end":159.57,"text":"But he's a good friend."},{"start":159.77,"end":160.05,"text":"He is."},{"start":160.21,"end":161.87,"text":"All of us do."},{"start":176.31,"end":183.12,"text":"No way, no way, no way, no way, no way."},{"start":212.57,"end":220.87,"text":"It's got a boat with a bridge to it."},{"start":220.97,"end":222.13,"text":"Yeah, that's great."},{"start":238.79,"end":239.24,"text":"It's got all furnished."},{"start":239.25,"end":241.1,"text":"The headman lived in this 38th, but the caretakers had been here for three and a half years."},{"start":241.12,"end":242.64,"text":"They had such a woman, and her two sons who were flyers in the Civil War."},{"start":242.66,"end":243.64,"text":"They both got killed, but she never went back down."},{"start":243.66,"end":244.22,"text":"She died in the 4th World War."},{"start":244.24,"end":245.32,"text":"A couple of days to look at it, and the guy said he won $130,000."},{"start":245.36,"end":245.7,"text":"He broke his arm."},{"start":269.39,"end":278.36,"text":"Well, if it's good enough,"},{"start":297.91,"end":300.69,"text":"But they keep you as their chief secretary of state."},{"start":300.81,"end":303.47,"text":"I wouldn't take all the responsibility for that."},{"start":303.49,"end":304.27,"text":"Oh, just take the time."},{"start":304.35,"end":308.41,"text":"Just take the salary and the title."},{"start":308.51,"end":311.5,"text":"I was trying to make the money."},{"start":311.56,"end":315.42,"text":"Did you make a real cut?"},{"start":315.46,"end":317.44,"text":"Take it."},{"start":317.46,"end":317.44,"text":"$1,059."},{"start":317.5,"end":324.76,"text":"That would have given me a lot of love."},{"start":324.88,"end":325.38,"text":"That's true."},{"start":328.14,"end":333.38,"text":"I don't know how the hell I survived."},{"start":333.4,"end":335.52,"text":"This is an amazing job."},{"start":335.56,"end":337.9,"text":"You've done a great job."},{"start":338.05,"end":339.29,"text":"I can't keep going."},{"start":339.31,"end":339.97,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":340.03,"end":346.75,"text":"I can tell you that, you know, Johnson, you know, I can change that."},{"start":346.99,"end":351.1,"text":"I know that you look better, but..."},{"start":425.79,"end":425.89,"text":"Ready?"},{"start":455.32,"end":457.1,"text":"This is a guard's office."},{"start":457.14,"end":458.94,"text":"You've seen it before, haven't you?"},{"start":458.98,"end":459.12,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":459.14,"end":462.61,"text":"But you look at it, look at the beauty of the office."},{"start":462.65,"end":463.83,"text":"I think that was the thing."},{"start":463.85,"end":464.51,"text":"We didn't offer here."},{"start":465.17,"end":467.93,"text":"We refilled it with all the rest."},{"start":468.09,"end":472.79,"text":"It was all the way for the next generation."},{"start":473.01,"end":473.71,"text":"And so it is."},{"start":473.83,"end":478.13,"text":"And I don't know where we're going to put it."},{"start":478.17,"end":480.42,"text":"Well, John was kind of, he stole some of it."},{"start":480.44,"end":483.06,"text":"He took it out of his head and he's not going to lie about it."},{"start":483.44,"end":484.78,"text":"I've never been listening to George so late."},{"start":484.82,"end":487.52,"text":"When he first got elected, it seemed very strange why he would say it, and why George would be the president."},{"start":487.54,"end":487.94,"text":"It wasn't George."},{"start":487.96,"end":488.3,"text":"It wasn't Kevin."},{"start":488.32,"end":488.78,"text":"It wasn't Johnson."},{"start":488.8,"end":491.12,"text":"He said he never expected to have this reputation of using the fat natives as his vice president."},{"start":491.14,"end":491.44,"text":"So, that's funny."},{"start":491.46,"end":492.52,"text":"I've never heard this man's fat native as my son."},{"start":492.54,"end":492.62,"text":"Sure."},{"start":492.66,"end":492.94,"text":"It's funny."},{"start":492.96,"end":493.28,"text":"It's funny."},{"start":493.3,"end":493.52,"text":"It's funny."},{"start":528.1,"end":529.48,"text":"I think we're moving now."},{"start":529.58,"end":529.96,"text":"Right now."},{"start":556.18,"end":563.84,"text":"Well, there's a very definite, if you don't want to touch it, but I even notice occasionally in the press, there's a recognition."},{"start":563.92,"end":564.46,"text":"Is there?"},{"start":565.32,"end":568.96,"text":"No, we've got the recognition."},{"start":568.98,"end":571.28,"text":"We've got the second one."},{"start":571.32,"end":572.42,"text":"This last one."},{"start":572.46,"end":574.8,"text":"Well, this thing here."},{"start":574.84,"end":575.42,"text":"Think about it."},{"start":583.54,"end":585.56,"text":"So if it's all like a game plan, and it's all falling in place, then it's better than it was."},{"start":585.58,"end":586.24,"text":"How can you tell what happens?"},{"start":586.26,"end":586.6,"text":"Well, I don't know."},{"start":586.62,"end":587.36,"text":"You can tell the other one you want."},{"start":587.38,"end":588.1,"text":"You can tell the other one you want."},{"start":588.12,"end":588.84,"text":"You can tell the other one you want."},{"start":588.86,"end":589.58,"text":"You can tell the other one you want."},{"start":609.75,"end":610.54,"text":"We may have to change that."},{"start":610.59,"end":611.35,"text":"We may have to change that."},{"start":611.39,"end":612.01,"text":"We may have to change that."},{"start":638.23,"end":640.13,"text":"Well, I want to hear about that."},{"start":667.74,"end":670.2,"text":"And then when I saw the state of the egg that they had, he had to say that his life was saved and all the rest of it."},{"start":670.22,"end":670.96,"text":"We were looking at all the variables."},{"start":670.98,"end":674.36,"text":"Basically, the real thing I know about this is that we should have gotten the discussion out of the group that Paul now likes to cut and get better for the egg."},{"start":674.38,"end":674.86,"text":"The egg is a flying egg."},{"start":674.88,"end":675.7,"text":"The cut is more complex, more clever."},{"start":675.72,"end":676.06,"text":"Don't you agree?"},{"start":697.86,"end":698.48,"text":"I don't know either."},{"start":698.52,"end":698.8,"text":"He's a queen."},{"start":698.82,"end":699.42,"text":"Yeah, I think he is."},{"start":699.44,"end":700.86,"text":"And he is very impressed in having himself in the Senate."},{"start":700.88,"end":703.58,"text":"Of course, I'm all for Agnes being the one person who's the worst aggressor, the worst thing with Agnes."},{"start":703.62,"end":704.68,"text":"But it may be that Agnes will decide that"},{"start":731.16,"end":733.62,"text":"He's a very decent man."},{"start":733.73,"end":734.99,"text":"We will not force him."},{"start":735.13,"end":737.83,"text":"I've already told Agnon, let's take my bag to the server."},{"start":737.89,"end":743.35,"text":"And he hates the press, though, that he may not want to get retargeted."},{"start":743.39,"end":745.29,"text":"They'll make him retargeted."},{"start":745.37,"end":747.49,"text":"Oh, I know that."},{"start":747.57,"end":748.85,"text":"I know that."},{"start":748.93,"end":754.32,"text":"That's what the press can't say that they drove him out."},{"start":754.4,"end":755.96,"text":"That's what they're about to do."},{"start":791.47,"end":792.55,"text":"He said, the cat is about to share that with you."},{"start":792.57,"end":792.87,"text":"Well, it'll come."},{"start":792.89,"end":794.41,"text":"They don't need to sweep the stuff like Grandpa, where he was doing it."},{"start":794.43,"end":795.39,"text":"He was the best man I've got in the whole cabin."},{"start":795.41,"end":795.77,"text":"Except for Connery."},{"start":795.79,"end":796.23,"text":"Connery's the best."},{"start":796.25,"end":797.57,"text":"The only man that I used to wipe out of the cabin would be Frank."},{"start":797.59,"end":797.99,"text":"And that could be it."},{"start":821.38,"end":822.42,"text":"I wouldn't say right, I wouldn't say where."},{"start":822.46,"end":822.82,"text":"You know, wrong."},{"start":822.84,"end":824.14,"text":"I think this country's a hell of a bad, tough job."},{"start":824.16,"end":824.62,"text":"People don't know how."},{"start":824.64,"end":825.58,"text":"They really don't know if they have an idea."},{"start":825.6,"end":826.34,"text":"They don't know if they have an idea."},{"start":826.36,"end":827.12,"text":"They don't know if they have an idea."},{"start":827.16,"end":827.34,"text":"I'm happy."},{"start":855.99,"end":859.52,"text":"This is a good idea, Wood."},{"start":859.54,"end":866.09,"text":"You ready?"}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and his close confidant Charles G. \"Bebe\" Rebozo engaged in a wide-ranging, informal discussion in the Oval Office covering both personal matters and political strategy. The conversation touched upon the stresses of the presidency, potential political challengers like Ted Kennedy, and the political future of Vice President Spiro Agnew, whom Nixon expressed a desire not to force out of office despite press scrutiny. Additionally, the pair discussed administrative appointments, the merits of various cabinet members such as John Connally, and miscellaneous personal topics including property, finance, and office decor.","topics":["Spiro Agnew","John Connally","1972 Presidential Campaign","White House Office Environment","Presidential Stress","Personal Finances"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T11:53:36.433Z"},"topicSlugs":["spiro-agnew","john-connally","1972-presidential-campaign","white-house-office-environment","presidential-stress","personal-finances"],"audioDurationSec":866,"audioFiles":[{"file":"253-008.mp3","bytes":34657883,"durationSec":866.3,"bitrate":320053,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:36.695Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:11.628Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/253-008.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/253-008","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/253/conversation-253-008","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}