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Conversation 253-032

TapeTape 253StartWednesday, May 26, 1971 at 6:46 PMEndWednesday, May 26, 1971 at 6:57 PMTape start time02:50:28Tape end time02:57:39ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AudioNARA Description

On May 26, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:46 pm and 6:57 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 253-032 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 253-32

Date: May 26, 1971
Time: Unknown between 6:46 pm and 6:57 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger

     Kissinger’s schedule
          -Dinner
                -Alice Roosevelt Longworth, Joseph W. Alsop
     President’s call to J. Edgar Hoover

     President’s meeting with Dr. David K. E. Bruce
          -Henry Cabot Lodge
          -Possible future position
                -[Robert D.?] Murphy
                -Lodge
          -Kissinger’s meeting with Bruce

          -[David] Kenneth Rush
     -Bruce’s role in Paris negotiations

Canada

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]

     -Possible action
     -Forthcoming announcement

A meeting
    -Edmund S. Muskie
    -William A. K. (“Tony”) Lake
    -Harvard Law School person
          -President’s previous visit
                -Lon Ford [?]

Harold E. Hughes Pay Amendment
     -Congressional vote
     -Gaylord Nelson Amendment vote
     -Content
     -Vote total in Senate
           -Charles W. Colson’s analysis
                 -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]

An unknown man
     -President’s meeting as a Congressman at Eugene, II and Agnes E. Meyer’s house

Foreign policy
     -Vietnam
           -President’s statement to editors, May 25, 1971
     -People’s Republic of China [PRC]
     -USSR
     -Middle East
     -American spirit
           -Economy
     -Vietnam

Future
     -Lawton M. Chiles, Jr. [?] and Robert P. Griffin [?]
     -An unknown man

           -Administration position

     William S. (“Bill”) White
          -President’s forthcoming meeting
                -Roger E. Johnson [?]
          -Position on President’s policies

          -A paper
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah, you were going out to dinner, I thought.
Yeah, yeah.
Or was that just an excuse?
You do have a date, though.
I knew that.
Oh, great, great.
You would have lots of fun at Alice's tonight, apparently.
Alice, apparently, and Joelle's.
Boy, they were really subtle.
They were a great crowd.
You know, and incidentally, I want to tell you that I was just delighted with Bruce.
God damn.
When I heard him sit there and say, well, you know, usually a guy would suck along and say, I'd like to be a consultant.
I remember like a lot he did and all the rest.
He said, no.
He said, you should resign.
He said, I'll be leaving for a while.
They went on to say, I'll support you, Mr. President.
And I'm like, God damn, I thought, what a hell of a guy.
And that's a deadline.
If we get a chance, Henry, to send anybody to China, he goes.
He goes.
He's the best man.
Now, look, Murphy could be terrible.
Lodge would be worse.
Lodge would be impossible.
But who the hell else do we have in the Congress?
And if he wants to go, I think the Chinese would take him.
Would you please, how was your lunch with him?
Was it, was he?
I hope that we've done the right thing.
He lived, you know, and I hope, hope.
Yeah.
All right.
All right.
I mean, he did, but I didn't see him.
Nothing.
I just brought him back to him to look up.
What a guy he is compared to the clowns.
You know, there aren't many we've got that are like this.
Maybe Rush.
Who else?
Oh, no, no, no, no.
What I meant is Rush got his character, but not his wisdom.
Rush, 40 years, would be like Bruce, but he's got a lot of time to go.
But I don't want him to stay over there and sit.
My God, I really feel that you ought to go to his idea of having me at every meeting.
I think you ought to skip the meeting now, don't you?
Take care of yourself.
Take care of yourself.
Oh, on the Canadian thing, right?
This is after our Soviet invasion.
They're going to respond.
They may not fight on Earth with Soviet men, but they might.
It's Bruce.
And I'd make a cold turkey with him.
All right.
So it's fine, because it's the best way.
And then what I think, I think we might let Bruce go anyway.
You know, what the hell.
In between.
It keeps things going and it doesn't leave, it doesn't leave the panorama.
So when you talk to them, if you do talk to them, I would say, all right, Ambassador Bruce will come, he's resigning, we're going to send him at a certain time, because that keeps them going.
And then he will come to make public arrangements for the presidency.
And the, you think the meeting that...
I suppose this guy's gone over to Muskie now, probably your friend, Lee.
Oh.
Yeah, I know him.
Yeah.
Oh, Harvard Law?
I know him.
Yeah, yeah, he's a very able fellow.
I know him in the mind, he was a matter of fact.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A few years ago, one of the law enforcement had me up there, and he was a young professor in Harvard Law.
Very brilliant fellow.
Henry, did you know we beat the Hughes Amendment today?
Do you know what the Hughes Amendment is?
Well, it's the one, you know, they beat the Nelson Amendment yesterday.
Today, the Hughes Amendment provides a $2,700,000 pay increase, and it brings the draft.
We all thought we were going to lose in the Senate voters now, 47 to 32.
Now, according to Colson, I said, what's the reason for this, Chuck?
He said, well, he said, first, you're strong on this issue on the NATO thing.
And second, when you hit them with the Soviet thing, he said, this made it extremely difficult for these people.
They're scared to death that you might do something else.
I don't know what it is.
You know, I'm giving my best.
He's an old friend.
He's never supported me, but I like him and respect him.
But you tell him, you just tell him what I said that I remember.
It was 20 years ago.
Let me say it.
He'll remember that Mrs. Myers' house, the, you know, Eugene Myers, and I'm proud of you.
Their house was a young house.
47 years there.
and I recall about it.
Vietnam is spinning.
You tell him that that was the theme, and I want you to read.
I made a rather long rambling talk with my characters yesterday, but I covered all this thing, and I said, look, Vietnam is done.
I said, that issue is in one way.
You can argue about when, but it's over.
The main thing is what's going to happen to Russia, what's going to happen to China, what's going to happen to the East, and what's going to happen to America.
economy, what's going to happen to the spirit of this country.
This is a very important line for us now to take.
Let them yak around about Vietnam.
Let us talk about the future.
I agree.
Besides us with Giles, we're thinking about the future and everyone's thinking about the present and the past.
He saw that point, didn't he?
Because we're sure.
We're certain about this.
We're not sure about the others.
That's true.
That guy, I wish you would see.
See Bill White, because Johnson asked me if he would, and I said, of course you should.
He does support us, you know, and the poor guy is, they kick him around, and he's with us all the time.
Can't sometimes.
The next couple of days, we meet tomorrow with Robert.
Now I want to see a paper on that before we meet.
I want to get through that.
Okay.
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