{"conversationCode":"260-008","tapeNumber":260,"conversationNumber":8,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-260-008","startDateTime":"1971-07-02T20:14:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-07-02T20:22:00.000Z","startDate":"2-Jul-1971","startTime":"4:14 PM","endDate":"2-Jul-1971","endTime":"4:22 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On July 2, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 4:14 pm to 4:22 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 260-008 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 260-8\n\nDate: July 2, 1971\nTime: 4:14 pm - 4:22 pm\nLocation: Old Executive Office Building\n\nThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n[See Conversation No. 6-93; one item has been withdrawn]","filename":["260-008-splice.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:47:53","tapeEnd":"00:55:23","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"260-007","nextCode":"260-009","tapeTranscriptFile":"260a.mp3,260b.mp3,260c.mp3","transcript":[{"start":2891.9,"end":2909.2,"text":"Chuck, I wanted to be sure that you and Dr. Scali worked, so, and they did, and it doesn't apply to others, but rewriting that fact that they, that they, that the month's casualty is the lowest for a leasing study that I've seen."},{"start":2909.22,"end":2913.34,"text":"Yeah, it's the lowest."},{"start":2914.35,"end":2919.25,"text":"It's lower than it was in a week a year ago."},{"start":2950.98,"end":2954.42,"text":"You don't trust them?"},{"start":2955.96,"end":2956.34,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":2959.21,"end":2963.03,"text":"Yeah, well, they, they, it has to with things."},{"start":2975.32,"end":2975.56,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":2976.12,"end":2976.34,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":2976.46,"end":2979.66,"text":"Did somebody at the Labor Department say it was political loot?"},{"start":2988.48,"end":2995.83,"text":"I watch, I watch, I watch, uh, the bridge, you know, we told everybody it was supposed to be here, and, uh, I find out, and then he's got to be fired."},{"start":2996.83,"end":3000.13,"text":"If he said it, I gave the orders, it was clear, didn't I?"},{"start":3000.23,"end":3003.33,"text":"And I gave the orders, and that is, it was, you know, it's clear, isn't it?"},{"start":3003.81,"end":3005.7,"text":"And Hodgson is helping him out, isn't he?"},{"start":3007.06,"end":3009.6,"text":"I know that it's Hodgson helping him on the investigation."},{"start":3010.4,"end":3013.04,"text":"It's over on a column, and I want the guy's name by the name."},{"start":3041.11,"end":3041.63,"text":"But it is."},{"start":3042.17,"end":3043.91,"text":"Suppose it is some statistical."},{"start":3044.25,"end":3046.55,"text":"Then it must have been a statistical clue that went up there."},{"start":3046.99,"end":3047.59,"text":"See my point?"},{"start":3049.75,"end":3051.11,"text":"It had to be wrong."},{"start":3051.31,"end":3053.38,"text":"You'd see the up figure is wrong, too, then, Chuck."},{"start":3053.78,"end":3054.7,"text":"He saw that, didn't he?"},{"start":3060.34,"end":3061.18,"text":"That's good."},{"start":3063.36,"end":3064.28,"text":"That's a great thing."},{"start":3065.06,"end":3066.22,"text":"I was trying to figure it out."},{"start":3089.03,"end":3099.91,"text":"Now you, of course, you know we've got to plan all the questions, but you shouldn't say, we've got to get him out of that bonfire and put him in the national committee or something."},{"start":3101.66,"end":3102.5,"text":"And it's a great idea."},{"start":3102.52,"end":3103.88,"text":"It gives you more opportunity."},{"start":3103.98,"end":3106.76,"text":"They can pay a little more money and put him on the road."},{"start":3107.44,"end":3108.68,"text":"But not just talk about this."},{"start":3108.7,"end":3110.95,"text":"This is, he loses his ground."},{"start":3111.05,"end":3112.85,"text":"He is a good footer on the property."},{"start":3112.99,"end":3114.85,"text":"But you see, he hurts the best."},{"start":3114.87,"end":3117.11,"text":"That thing about the hard guy, I couldn't believe it."},{"start":3117.76,"end":3118.98,"text":"I said that last year."},{"start":3122.05,"end":3122.25,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":3122.77,"end":3126.65,"text":"Well, he has, but you see, he's got this thing that he thinks the Philadelphia Plan accomplishes."},{"start":3126.93,"end":3129.95,"text":"The Philadelphia Plan is right, but it hurts us."},{"start":3130.07,"end":3131.93,"text":"And I kept telling Shelton that I would not do it."},{"start":3132.11,"end":3137.14,"text":"You know, Shelton's environment, everybody's, oh, isn't it great that we have the Philadelphia Plan."},{"start":3137.26,"end":3137.92,"text":"I said, well, it's fine."},{"start":3138.34,"end":3140.02,"text":"We're going to do these blacks."},{"start":3140.36,"end":3148.45,"text":"But, boy, it's killing us in a very different situation."},{"start":3149.39,"end":3149.69,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":3151.24,"end":3153.24,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":3153.26,"end":3153.54,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":3154.82,"end":3155.38,"text":"That's right."},{"start":3155.4,"end":3155.54,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":3156.06,"end":3161.63,"text":"And Brennan, uh, Brennan feels, knows he's going to follow through and get that New York plan and get something approved before he's beaten."},{"start":3161.93,"end":3163.17,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":3163.35,"end":3164.95,"text":"Well, I've definitely had that approved."},{"start":3165.33,"end":3165.83,"text":"Do you think so?"},{"start":3184.2,"end":3184.54,"text":"Right."},{"start":3185.43,"end":3195.41,"text":"Now, although we don't want to make a story out of what you can, but what you want to do is, you know, yeah, yeah."},{"start":3195.95,"end":3199.22,"text":"That's probably just so we can produce something."},{"start":3199.3,"end":3199.52,"text":"Right."},{"start":3199.56,"end":3204.14,"text":"Now on, of course, the way Christ ordered it, there's what we've got to be talking about."},{"start":3204.2,"end":3206.98,"text":"We've got to keep their help to the ground level."},{"start":3207.16,"end":3207.52,"text":"Right."},{"start":3218.99,"end":3221.17,"text":"They're doing pretty good."},{"start":3221.89,"end":3235.86,"text":"Did you tell them about the other one?"},{"start":3249.05,"end":3250.71,"text":"Right."},{"start":3251.69,"end":3252.25,"text":"Right."},{"start":3252.87,"end":3254.51,"text":"Right."},{"start":3256.55,"end":3259.57,"text":"Right."},{"start":3262.58,"end":3262.96,"text":"Right."},{"start":3263.6,"end":3264.24,"text":"Right."},{"start":3269.6,"end":3269.98,"text":"Right."},{"start":3270.28,"end":3271.76,"text":"Right."},{"start":3272.36,"end":3272.76,"text":"Right."},{"start":3299.2,"end":3300.71,"text":"That's the way to get it out of your pocket."},{"start":3302.45,"end":3302.85,"text":"All right."},{"start":3303.25,"end":3303.59,"text":"Good."},{"start":3304.23,"end":3304.45,"text":"Good."},{"start":3304.51,"end":3304.84,"text":"Thank you."}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":2889.04,"end":3307.76,"startMethod":"llm-alignment","endMethod":"llm-alignment"},"transcriptConfidence":"high","transcriptSource":"bigtape","originalFilename":["260a.mp3","260b.mp3","260c.mp3"],"spliceSource":{"spliceType":"bigtape","sourceFiles":["260a.mp3"],"cutStart":2887.54,"cutEnd":3309.26,"adjustedStart":2887.54,"adjustedEnd":3309.26,"boundaryMethod":"llm-alignment","confidence":"high","splicedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:25.870Z"},"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss the coordination of administrative strategies and the implementation of specific reporting initiatives, potentially involving Dr. Scali. They deliberate on messaging tactics, including the necessity of planning inquiries to influence public or legislative opinion effectively. The conversation concludes with an emphasis on utilizing these refined methods to ensure the success of their objectives.","topics":["Administrative strategy","Public messaging","Government operations","Political planning","Executive coordination"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T12:14:44.596Z"},"topicSlugs":["administrative-strategy","public-messaging","government-operations","political-planning","executive-coordination"],"audioDurationSec":422,"audioFiles":[{"file":"260-008-splice.mp3","bytes":6747995,"durationSec":421.72,"bitrate":128008,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:25.870Z","transcriptPrev":{"segments":108,"replacedAt":"2026-09-18T14:11:43.196Z"},"audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/260-008-splice.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/260-008","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/260/conversation-260-008","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}