Conversation 261-042

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This one, unfortunately, is going to be on all three members.

You can't say it Henry, I'm a flip boy.

Each has to say it his own way.

Let me get your final view about what to say on this paper statement.

Yeah, he's not going to say anything.

He's pressing the button.

Oh, he says, I said, I don't know.

I don't know.

It's a variation of it goes good.

It goes further.

It doesn't ask for so much.

It doesn't ask.

And it goes forward.

It goes further.

It's like the sign of an A.

It's got this regard.

It goes further.

It sees fire.

Right.

That's right.

That's a hell of a thing.

Yeah.

It's really something of a thing.

Yeah.

And we finally think Nancy will say he's protecting his clients.

He's afraid that something's going on.

But it's good, it's pretty decent what he's saying, though, in a way, isn't it?

Oh, yes, that's pretty decent.

Because otherwise you could say yeses to all of our men.

Oh, then he's afraid because then you'll say he screwed it up.

He screwed up something.

Then I can say, now, the senator said that, but I told the senator to get breakfast at such and such a time.

That's what he's afraid of.

But if you hadn't said it, yeah.

So I come back to this.

Sigler says, well, that's a problem that we should say something to.

He feels it's not the first time I ever go out to him and press him.

That's the first question.

And I'm crying out in the box because I don't know if I'm going to be able to press him.

And I think it's that.

Maybe after he gets back in my head, I'm going to say, well, I'll take the first question out of the box.

I'm going to figure it out.

Yeah.

It's a real question every year to switch.

It doesn't matter if you're tripping, it really matters if you're tripping or not.

In all situations, whether he should say something, he raises the same question.

He raises it well.

It gets us to clarify, clears the air with regard to the depression of women.

It's the best of the best of the best.

And my view would be,

Nothing can ever, basically, clearly have anything to do with the threat.

It's like conspicuous success against the other side.

So if it isn't that, they find something else.

I believe, you think, you don't think the country's all upset with the 930 person, right?

No.

I think the country's not upset about it.

It may be, but they think we're censoring it.

That's the president's mind.

I don't think that is.

Hello.

Edgar, I wanted to tell you that I was so damn mad when that Supreme Court had you come down.

I didn't, I didn't like that decision.

It was unbelievable, wasn't it?

You know, those clowns you've got on there, I'll tell you, I hope I outdid them after.

I mean, politically, too, because we've got to change that court.

Yeah.

You know, I thought, I thought we ought to get away with what's the matter with him.

Yeah.

Right.

But then the other one, though, what in the hell is the matter with Stuart?

Yeah.

Well, I suppose he's connected to Georgetown, but what I was going to say is that

Dave went over to your place and I was driving.

We had made the news all right, but the point is, the point is that if it hadn't been for that speaking court decision, we'd have been in the least trouble, you know.

And it should have been.

Well, I thought it was good to lay on the line with those scholars, and you know that line at the ear of her message, which is, if you notice, I thought it was really great when I said, and I hope that you, Emily, your people get this one down, because in the 23 years that I've known the director, that he has never served the party, he has always served his country, that sort of summed it up here.

Good.

Well, I want to leave it at that.

But it does, it does kind of look like it.

I was glad that we could give it a shot because, you know,

Yeah.

Well, I love it.

You know, one thing I was going to ask you, a lot of people have a feeling that I ought to, not a lot, some, they're all men, some people think that now that this Court is active, I ought to make a statement about the freedom of the press, that we earned crimes, and so forth.

My inclination

I kind of think they should stay out, but what's your public relations judgment on it?

You know what?

You don't think that there's any grave problem that they've been acting and charging that we have been trying to keep the press from praying the truth about the war and so forth?

No, actually, the stories in both times this morning were all about Kennedy and Diem.

Yeah.

Well, I'd like to check some of the other people around.

I think there's a conspiracy involved here.

Is he in it, too?

Yeah.

Oh.

Oh, no, I know that.

She's a terrible old hag.

You don't think we should, I should say to him, just let it cool off, let the capers come out, let them reflect on her, everybody.

I had nothing to do, nothing was bothering me.

I'd say the same thing.

Yeah.

He ought to.

He ought to defend himself.

Yeah.

Well... No.

Well, I don't certainly plan to say anything until I have a chance to look over the weekend and see what the... Yeah.

Because... Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, boy.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm not the boy.

I had nothing to do with him.

That's the house.

And the man there in front.

Yeah.

Well, the other, at the end of the year, 1992, it was a pentagon, where the selling was coming up.

No, no, no, no.

Right, right.

Well, yeah, well, I'm going to do this.

I'm going to be doing it about an hour or so, and I'll have that on.

Well, good to talk to you.

Well, I appreciate the company.

I appreciate the company.

Yes, thank you.

Nice, strong feeling.

What is your feeling?

First of all, I keep fighting with you about the relationship.

I just want to speak with you.

They're concerned as to getting to tomorrow.

I confirm this when you'll be speaking on the screen.

Tomorrow, in my judgment, it's going to take care of itself, and if we play it too fast, we play it in this hostile environment, it has kind of to do with repression, freedom of the dress.

That makes a lot of difference in the swimming pool, I mean, in the dress room.

In the country, there's a vague feeling of uneasiness.

You reopen your paper because you have to conduct it.

And so the Supreme Court has now passed.

The Supreme Court has made a lot of decisions in the last 10 years that don't make people happy.

I believe...

Secondly, I believe that your right position is that these documents still are secret until they are declassified by the process and established by the law.

And we should just keep these people in a position where they are printing secret documents under a very specialized legal ruling in which they have made an unilateral determination of what interests the interests of the country.

You stand for principles, for the integrity of government, for justice to individuals, and for confidence in foreign governments.

It's exactly the opposite role.

They've cast you in for 20 years.

And I think what you do in the short term, if you come out for freedom of the president against repression, they will just say the president, under enormous pressure, with everyone against him, finally yielded

to the press was too strong for him.

And this is how they will read this.

These guys... How do you think that would like you?

That guy would say, well, I want him to...

The way the statement would go, then, would be this.

That none of the Supreme Court has spoken.

That nobody is above the law.

And that we, of course, will not...

The documents will be frank.

However, we will proceed with the prostitution of the elements, and we will continue to protect the security of the government.

That's frankly the thing, honestly.

Nothing could be gained.

Nothing could be lost.

I think it looks defensive.

It looks a little cheap.

Why would you make it unless you're defending yourself against the charge?

When we said the documents will be printed in the newspaper, what about the government?

But you're proving by your actions that the documents will be printed.

I believe that you would be much better off saying your job is to protect the integrity of the government.

I've got to repeat here, too, is that I should remain in the position of fighting the disclosures that I've set up.

And as far as we're concerned, we set up a declassification study.

We're proceeding on that study.

I'm happy to do it today, in due time.

Change will be made.

And in that way, we're not going to concede that the press or any individual has the right to make decisions.

That way, the rules got us in the first six months, as I look back,

to sort of play up to us.

I could have realized that they were just trying to get you to dissociate yourself from your old friends.

And as soon as they could turn on you, no president has ever had a showdown.

And you had the best, when you first said to me, the best is the enemy.

I didn't believe it.

I remember when it was.

I remember how they turned on us, right in Colorado Springs.

And I remember how I was in Spring Street.

But it was going to happen anyway.

Oh yeah, I know, I know, I know.

My idea is that from then on, they started on, you know.

But you were saying nothing in Colorado Springs that isn't perfectly consistent with your whole country.

And therefore, I feel that assuming we get two out of three,

Then I'd go on the offensive in September, or late August, and I'd say, and I'd say, this conspiracy of the country authority has become, at the precise moment this was going on, that's what I was fighting about.

So I would hold my fire now.

But Joe, we have something to come out of it.

And I don't think you lose anything.

You are not placating, in my view, anybody.

And I continue to believe that Dresden now is a very uneasy place.

They would like a clean bill of health from you.

And I will keep them in the custody that they did something wrong.

I see your point.

In other words, you want me to say anything that says they didn't do something wrong?

That's good.

They had hurt the country.

And I believe whenever you stood firm, you gained.

I really believe we are at a dramatic and critical moment.

And we just imagine that at the precise moment that we were doing all these things in Paris,

and it's taking these sons of bitches.

I thought I made a mind of doing it, but they don't know what these people have to do with it.

They have a pretty good idea of who we are.

You know, I think the bad guys are doing it because they think we might be doing something.

I think they're trying to destroy the negotiation.

Oh, I think so.

That's my point.

Because if we do succeed, we'll get a chance.

That's why the Peking announcement is going to look like Pygmy's death.

I would expect it has maybe a 40% chance by the end of July.

One more meeting after the 12th to tell us whether we are trapped.

How do you want to, how do we handle this situation?

I just don't want to sit with him.

I'm trying to just buzz him out.

I don't think they'll ask me.

My cousin just got there.

He'll ask what got him.

I said, I don't know.

The man's been on there.

I said, well, the man's been on there.

I said, I just told him.

There's a lot of things going on.

I said, you know, we have a few nibbles here and there.

I'll keep him confused.

I don't think I told, I'll say we've got no time.

But then, if you see him this time, you think we should not tell, right?

Well, I think you and I should discuss it after this, to see whether it's worth it.

We have his time.

It might be the time.

And if you tell him, are you not going to move on from here?

Well, that's the way we, I think we do this at this time.

We just say, well, you've got to keep it secret.

So the difficulty, again, is that

in California, and I'm just screwing up my, well, part of the martial arts and all that kind of shit.

Tragedy is, the Cuba thing, we had to do three parts, because once they knew it, he kept leaking stuff.

And then as soon as he leaked something, they put a ship back in there, and then they pulled it out again.

This leaking thing in the press is really killing us, that cheap little shot they took on Monday.

In the sense that it put the idea in people's heads, no one would even dream of not going to China.

Well, they don't think you're going all the way.

Well, they're already beginning to ask about leaving right now.

Yeah, but I think about home.

I don't want to think about down here and the impact of them coming to us.

Kraslow kicked the fuck out.

I don't think that it's going to happen now, but I just, I don't talk to any of them.

I told Haig to take the call.

Haig told Kraslow my exact schedule, where I'll be back.

I was supposed to be there to find an extra day for Pakistan, I did say that.

But I think by that time I'd paused it so much, trapped in my mind.

I've had a murderous schedule in each town, and I couldn't announce it, so they really think I'm going to put them down.

Because I've got about ten appointments a week.

Thank you.

But be sure you're primarily, all right, be sure you rest up to sleep.

And take off at 8 o'clock and you are, you know, you're really going to be fine.

Of course, you've got your field trip prepared.

I've got to take you back up.

That's a great time.

Don't worry about getting down.

I just simply, before you go into that meeting, put it down a lot.

The four minimum things you want to get out of it.

Are you sure you get those?

Because the meeting may go on.

We'll get something out of it.

Is there something going on here in Japan?

Should I say that the Chinese have got problems, the Russians have got problems, or the U.S. has got problems?

I agree.

I think you will put your finger on one very important thing, and I have tended to under-emphasize the analysis of the Chinese.

Because we are going to have to be scared to death, I think.

I don't

on the press thing, I would do it, Mr. President, and particularly if, assuming the child effect comes down on July 19, you know, then let that project look like a bunch of turds.

Let that be our first work.

Now, the only possible thing I was thinking was to use an interesting device.

I could use the device of a letter to an editor in my village.

Well, do you remember they made you write a letter to him that he could write whenever he played these things tactically?

Oh yeah, that's right, they did.

I frankly would let this thing down on its coat.

Oh, I don't think I should say the same thing.

I would not say the same thing.

I really wouldn't.

And you know, I identify with him now that I was in the office with him.