{"conversationCode":"261-042","tapeNumber":261,"conversationNumber":42,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-261-042","startDateTime":"1971-07-01T21:55:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-07-01T22:20:00.000Z","startDate":"1-Jul-1971","startTime":"5:55 PM","endDate":"1-Jul-1971","endTime":"6:20 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; Hoover, J. Edgar;","description":"On July 1, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and J. Edgar Hoover met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:55 pm to 6:20 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 261-042 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 261-42\n\nDate: July 1, 1971\nTime: 5:55 pm - 6:20 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Henry A. Kissinger\n\n     President’s schedule\n          -Forthcoming Bicentennial speech at National Archives\n          -Television coverage by Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS], National\n                Broadcasting Company [NBC], and American Broadcasting Company [ABC]\n                -Language of speech\n                -Speech writers\n\n     Pentagon Papers\n          -Forthcoming statement by President\n          -Clark MacGregor\n          -Daniel Ellsberg\n\n     Cease fire [in Vietnam?]\n\n     Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield\n         -Prior conversation with President\n         -MacGregor [?]\n         -Kissinger’s foreign trip\n\n     President’s relations with the press\n          -Public perception of President and the media\n\n[The President talked with J. Edgar Hoover between 6:00 pm and 6:07 pm]\n\n[Conversation 261-42A]\n\n[See Conversation No. 6-84]\n\n[End of telephone conversation]\n\n     Freedom of the press issue\n          -Ellsberg case\n          -Supreme Court decision\n                -Public reaction\n                -Declassification of top secret documents\n          -Administration’s position\n                -Integrity of government\n                -Justice for individuals\n                -Competence\n\n     Freedom of the press versus repression\n          -Public perception\n\n     Supreme Court decision\n          -Pentagon Papers\n          -Administration’s position\n               -Prosecution\n\nClassified documents\n     -President’s position\n           -Integrity of government\n     -Declassification study\n\nPresident’s prior speech in Colorado Springs, Colorado\n\nForthcoming statement on publication of classified documents\n\nPresident and press\n     -Paris talks\n     -Peking, People’s Republic of China [PRC]\n     -Press\n     -PRC announcement\n           -Effect on press\n           -Timing\n\nVietnam\n     -William P. Rogers\n     -Le Duc Tho meeting with Kissinger\n     -Mansfield\n           -Prior conversation with President\n     -Le Duc Tho\n           -Rogers\n           -Marshall Green\n     -Peking\n\nPress\n\nPRC\n        -Kissinger’s possible trip\n             -Press speculation\n             -David Kraslow [?]\n\nGeneral Alexander M. Haig, Jr.\n    -Conversation with Kraslow [?]\n\nPakistan\n     -Kissinger’s trip\n\n     PRC\n             -Kissinger’s trip\n             -Preparation\n             -Announcement\n\n     Press\n             -PRC announcement\n             -Forthcoming press conference\n                  -Use of unidentified letter as prop\n\nKissinger left at 6:20 pm","filename":["261-042-splice.mp3"],"tapeStart":"04:19:29","tapeEnd":"04:46:46","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kissinger, Henry A.","Hoover, J. Edgar"],"prevCode":"261-041","nextCode":"261-043","tapeTranscriptFile":"261a.mp3,261b.mp3,261c.mp3,261d.mp3","transcript":[{"start":15859.19,"end":15861.97,"text":"All three of them were ."},{"start":15878.07,"end":15883.79,"text":"It's a chance to try to say something about the country and so forth."},{"start":15883.97,"end":15888.15,"text":"And the spirit of the country has to change, right?"},{"start":15901.5,"end":15904.08,"text":"You can't say it in a flip way."},{"start":15904.56,"end":15916.11,"text":"Each has to say his own way."},{"start":15916.21,"end":15920.38,"text":"Let me get you a final view about what to say on this paper statement."},{"start":15927.33,"end":15933.53,"text":"Oh, he says, I said, oh, I didn't know."},{"start":15933.55,"end":15934.42,"text":"I didn't know."},{"start":15934.46,"end":15935.34,"text":"I didn't know."},{"start":15948.17,"end":15952.27,"text":"It's a variation of it goes good."},{"start":15952.64,"end":15957.04,"text":"It goes further."},{"start":15957.18,"end":15958.94,"text":"It goes further."},{"start":15959.24,"end":15966.04,"text":"It's really something of a thing."},{"start":15974.63,"end":15976.25,"text":"He's afraid that something's going on."},{"start":15976.71,"end":15982.64,"text":"But it's good, it's pretty decent when you say it that way, isn't it?"},{"start":15982.7,"end":15983.94,"text":"Oh yes, that's pretty decent."},{"start":15984.68,"end":15991.12,"text":"Because otherwise you could say yeses to all of our men."},{"start":15991.14,"end":15993.85,"text":"Oh, then he's afraid because then you'll say he screwed it up."},{"start":15994.37,"end":15998.99,"text":"Then I could say, now the senator said that, but I told the senator to get breakfast at such and such a time."},{"start":15999.01,"end":16001.65,"text":"That's what he's afraid of."},{"start":16004,"end":16004.94,"text":"But if you hadn't said it, then yeah."},{"start":16004.96,"end":16007.4,"text":"So I come back to this."},{"start":16007.42,"end":16009.26,"text":"Sigler says, well, that's a problem that you shouldn't say something to him."},{"start":16009.28,"end":16014.73,"text":"He feels it's not the first time I ever go out in front of the press and that's the first question."},{"start":16014.75,"end":16018.73,"text":"And I'm crying out in the box because I know that's not the first time I've been in front of the press."},{"start":16018.75,"end":16031.78,"text":"And I think it's maybe after he gets back in my head, I'm going to say, that will not be the first question I'm going to ask."},{"start":16031.84,"end":16032.04,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":16032.06,"end":16032.16,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16033.12,"end":16042.25,"text":"The real question every year is such that it doesn't matter if you're tripping, if you're embarrassing your children."},{"start":16042.29,"end":16049.43,"text":"The whole situation is whether we should say something to you."},{"start":16049.45,"end":16050.27,"text":"He raises the same point."},{"start":16050.29,"end":16054.94,"text":"He gets us to clarify, clears the air with regard to the depression for women."},{"start":16054.96,"end":16055.48,"text":"That's my view of it."},{"start":16056.73,"end":16060.27,"text":"Nothing can ever, basically, clearly have anything to do with the threat."},{"start":16061.11,"end":16063.71,"text":"It's a conspicuous example of the extent of that."},{"start":16063.73,"end":16066.67,"text":"So if it isn't that, then find something else."},{"start":16067.99,"end":16073.59,"text":"Obviously, you don't think the country's all upset with the 930 person, right?"},{"start":16073.63,"end":16073.77,"text":"No."},{"start":16073.79,"end":16078.85,"text":"I think the country might have found out that it ain't me that they think we're censoring."},{"start":16078.91,"end":16080.81,"text":"It's the president's mind that's thinking this."},{"start":16081.75,"end":16082.15,"text":"Hello."},{"start":16083.42,"end":16088.74,"text":"Edgar, I wanted to tell you that I was so damn mad when that Supreme Court had you come down."},{"start":16088.76,"end":16090.1,"text":"I didn't, I didn't like that decision."},{"start":16090.14,"end":16092.24,"text":"It was unbelievable, wasn't it?"},{"start":16092.88,"end":16096.37,"text":"You know, those clowns you've got on there, I did, and I'll tell you, I hope I outdid them after."},{"start":16096.39,"end":16100.79,"text":"I mean politically, too, because we've got to change that court."},{"start":16100.81,"end":16100.97,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16100.99,"end":16101.13,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16101.23,"end":16101.35,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16101.37,"end":16109.85,"text":"You know, I thought, I thought we ought to get Dwight, what's the matter with him?"},{"start":16110.09,"end":16110.29,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16113.54,"end":16113.78,"text":"Right?"},{"start":16114.14,"end":16116.86,"text":"But then the other one knows, what in the hell's the matter with Stuart?"},{"start":16116.88,"end":16116.98,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16122.09,"end":16127.43,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16127.49,"end":16127.65,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16127.67,"end":16127.83,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16127.85,"end":16132.3,"text":"Well, I suppose he's connected to Georgetown, but what I was going to say is that"},{"start":16136.66,"end":16139.8,"text":"Dave went over to your place and I was driving."},{"start":16139.86,"end":16148.41,"text":"We had made the news all right, but the point is that if it hadn't been for that stinking court decision, we would have been the lead story."},{"start":16148.53,"end":16151.12,"text":"And should have been."},{"start":16154.93,"end":16155.31,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16155.33,"end":16158.01,"text":"Well, I thought it was good to lay on the line with those dollars."},{"start":16158.05,"end":16172.88,"text":"And you know that line at the ear of her message, which is, and you noticed I thought it was really great when I said, and I hope that you and your people get this one down, because in the 23 years that I've known the director, that he has always, he has never served the party."},{"start":16172.94,"end":16174.7,"text":"He has always served his country."},{"start":16175.18,"end":16176.52,"text":"That sort of summed it up for me."},{"start":16181.99,"end":16182.13,"text":"Good."},{"start":16193.31,"end":16198.08,"text":"Well, I want to leave it at that."},{"start":16198.38,"end":16200.84,"text":"But it does, it does kind of look like it."},{"start":16201.02,"end":16206.3,"text":"I was glad that we could give it a shot because, you know,"},{"start":16210.4,"end":16210.68,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16211.14,"end":16212.05,"text":"Well, I love it."},{"start":16218.15,"end":16239.56,"text":"You know, one thing I was going to ask you, a lot of people have a feeling that I ought to, not a lot, some, they're all men, some people think that now that this Court is active, I ought to make a statement about the freedom of the press, that we earned crimes, and so forth."},{"start":16239.58,"end":16239.9,"text":"My inclination"},{"start":16240.92,"end":16243.04,"text":"where it is not to say so."},{"start":16243.06,"end":16248.14,"text":"I kind of think they should stay out, but what's your public relations judgment on it?"},{"start":16248.22,"end":16267.79,"text":"You don't think that there's any grave problem that they've been acting and charging that we have been trying to keep the press from praying the truth about the war and so forth?"},{"start":16273.02,"end":16277.2,"text":"No, actually, the stories in both times this morning were all about Kennedy and Kim."},{"start":16277.24,"end":16277.58,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16280.02,"end":16298.78,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16329.81,"end":16332.24,"text":"Well, I'd like to check some of the other people around."},{"start":16332.26,"end":16335.12,"text":"I think there's a conspiracy involved here."},{"start":16335.14,"end":16342.44,"text":"Is he in it, too?"},{"start":16342.46,"end":16342.68,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16345.53,"end":16345.65,"text":"Oh."},{"start":16355.59,"end":16357.41,"text":"Oh, no, I know that."},{"start":16362.94,"end":16365.94,"text":"She's a terrible old hag."},{"start":16371,"end":16375.34,"text":"You don't think we should, I should say to him, just let it cool off."},{"start":16375.36,"end":16378.12,"text":"Let the papers come out and let him reflect on whatever he'd like."},{"start":16382.08,"end":16383.92,"text":"I had nothing to do, nothing was bothering me."},{"start":16383.96,"end":16385.52,"text":"I'd say, damn, damn."},{"start":16405.51,"end":16405.97,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16407.19,"end":16407.65,"text":"He ought to."},{"start":16407.71,"end":16414.24,"text":"He ought to defend himself."},{"start":16414.26,"end":16414.42,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16414.46,"end":16414.64,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16414.66,"end":16420.2,"text":"Well... Well, I don't certainly plan to say anything until I have a chance to look over the weekend and see what the... Yeah."},{"start":16420.68,"end":16422.7,"text":"Because... Yeah."},{"start":16428.35,"end":16428.63,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16435.59,"end":16435.99,"text":"Oh boy, yeah."},{"start":16436.03,"end":16440.69,"text":"Yeah, I know the boy."},{"start":16440.71,"end":16441.88,"text":"I know it had nothing to do with him."},{"start":16442.58,"end":16445.9,"text":"That's the house of the man in the front."},{"start":16458.09,"end":16458.61,"text":"Yeah, yeah."},{"start":16458.63,"end":16462.43,"text":"Well, the other, the painting, we had nothing to do with the Pentagon, with the summit coming up."},{"start":16468.26,"end":16469.1,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16473.18,"end":16473.4,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16474.58,"end":16474.8,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":16475.3,"end":16475.6,"text":"Right."},{"start":16475.76,"end":16476.1,"text":"Right."},{"start":16476.14,"end":16476.44,"text":"Well, yeah."},{"start":16476.46,"end":16478.06,"text":"Well, I'm glad to get that advice."},{"start":16478.14,"end":16481.73,"text":"I'm going to be due in about an hour or so, and I'll have that in mind."},{"start":16482.95,"end":16484.32,"text":"Well, good to talk to you."},{"start":16484.34,"end":16486.4,"text":"Well, I appreciate the company."},{"start":16486.42,"end":16487.84,"text":"I appreciate the company."},{"start":16487.9,"end":16490.06,"text":"Nice, strong feelings."},{"start":16490.12,"end":16491.04,"text":"What is your feeling?"},{"start":16491.46,"end":16497.56,"text":"First of all, I'd be excited to give my new relationship."},{"start":16497.64,"end":16499.9,"text":"I just want to speak with you."},{"start":16499.92,"end":16501.94,"text":"I dare confirm this because of the tomorrow."},{"start":16502.38,"end":16509.49,"text":"I confirm this when you'll be free to come to me."},{"start":16512.06,"end":16528.22,"text":"Tomorrow, in my judgment, it's going to take care of itself, and if we play it too tactfully, in this hostile environment, it has kind of proved repression, freedom of the dress, that makes a lot of difference in the swimming pool, I mean, in the dress room."},{"start":16529.47,"end":16531.35,"text":"In the country, there's a vague feeling of uneasiness."},{"start":16531.39,"end":16536.94,"text":"You read both in your paper because he comes, he conducts, and so on."},{"start":16536.96,"end":16538.9,"text":"The Supreme Court has now passed."},{"start":16539.42,"end":16546.77,"text":"The Supreme Court has made a lot of decisions in the last decades that don't make people happy."},{"start":16547.65,"end":16548.95,"text":"I believe, secondly,"},{"start":16550.02,"end":16557.18,"text":"I believe that your right position is that these documents still are secret until they are declassified by the process."},{"start":16557.2,"end":16558.26,"text":"It's established by the law."},{"start":16558.38,"end":16573.53,"text":"And we should just keep these people in a position where they are printing secret documents under a very specialized legal ruling in which they have made an unilateral determination of what interests the interests of the country."},{"start":16576.11,"end":16585.52,"text":"You stand for principle, for the integrity of government, for justice to individuals, and for confidence in foreign governments."},{"start":16585.54,"end":16590.6,"text":"It's exactly the opposite role they've cast you in for 20 years."},{"start":16591.44,"end":16603.97,"text":"And I think what you do in the short term, if you come out for freedom of the president against repression, they will just say the president, under enormous pressure, with everyone against him, finally yielded"},{"start":16605.47,"end":16608.27,"text":"to the press was too strong for him."},{"start":16608.29,"end":16610.81,"text":"And this is how they will read this."},{"start":16610.85,"end":16613.69,"text":"These guys... How do you think that looks like you?"},{"start":16613.75,"end":16616.01,"text":"That guy would have said, well, I want to..."},{"start":16616.03,"end":16619.97,"text":"The way the statement would go in the Greek would be this."},{"start":16620.01,"end":16622.39,"text":"That none of the Supreme Court has spoken."},{"start":16622.41,"end":16623.87,"text":"That nobody is above the law."},{"start":16623.91,"end":16625.62,"text":"And that we, of course, will not do it."},{"start":16625.76,"end":16628.9,"text":"The documents will be frank."},{"start":16630.34,"end":16633.32,"text":"However, I have a legal proceeding with the prostitution of the elements."},{"start":16633.4,"end":16639.97,"text":"And we will continue to protect the security of the government."},{"start":16640.29,"end":16642.21,"text":"That's frankly the thing, honestly."},{"start":16643.47,"end":16646.61,"text":"So we know that nothing can be gained."},{"start":16646.63,"end":16647.21,"text":"Nothing belongs."},{"start":16648.69,"end":16650.49,"text":"I think it looks defensive."},{"start":16650.59,"end":16651.82,"text":"It looks a little cheap."},{"start":16651.84,"end":16657.24,"text":"Why would you make it unless you're defending yourself against the judge?"},{"start":16657.28,"end":16664.24,"text":"When he said the documents will be printed in the newspaper, what about the government?"},{"start":16665.73,"end":16672.39,"text":"But you approve it by your actions."},{"start":16675.92,"end":16683.31,"text":"The idea is that it would be much better off saying your job is to protect the integrity of the government."},{"start":16683.39,"end":16685.99,"text":"I've got to repeat a few things that I should remember."},{"start":16686.01,"end":16690.94,"text":"I should remember fighting and disclosing the truth about the detention."},{"start":16692,"end":16694.38,"text":"The courts don't give you any remedy, but that doesn't change the principle."},{"start":16694.71,"end":16699.57,"text":"And as far as we're concerned, we set up a declassification study."},{"start":16700.05,"end":16701.97,"text":"We're proceeding on that study."},{"start":16702.31,"end":16705.34,"text":"I'm happy to do it today in due time, change it if we make it."},{"start":16705.36,"end":16713.04,"text":"And only in that way, we're not going to concede that the press or any individual has the right to make decisions."},{"start":16713.08,"end":16716.81,"text":"The way that the courts got us in the first six months is I look back on it."},{"start":16718.69,"end":16720.51,"text":"to sort of play up to us."},{"start":16720.57,"end":16728.16,"text":"I couldn't realize that they were just trying to get you to dissociate yourself from your old friends."},{"start":16729.49,"end":16734.99,"text":"And as soon as they could turn on you, no president has ever had a showdown."},{"start":16735.03,"end":16739.95,"text":"And you had the press, when you first said to me, the press is the enemy."},{"start":16740.05,"end":16741.03,"text":"I didn't believe it."},{"start":16741.13,"end":16742.81,"text":"I remember when it was."},{"start":16742.83,"end":16746.51,"text":"I remember how they turned on us, right in Colorado Springs."},{"start":16746.53,"end":16749.67,"text":"I remember I made it to Colorado Springs to be wrong."},{"start":16750.37,"end":16751.51,"text":"But it was going to happen anyway."},{"start":16751.57,"end":16753.69,"text":"Oh yeah, I don't, oh I know, I know, I know."},{"start":16753.71,"end":16757.57,"text":"My idea is that from then on they started on, you know,"},{"start":16759.05,"end":16765.6,"text":"But you were saying nothing in Colorado Springs that isn't going to be consistent with your whole country."},{"start":16766.9,"end":16777.5,"text":"And therefore I feel that assuming we get lucky, but any luck, assuming we get two out of three,"},{"start":16778.84,"end":16792.71,"text":"Then I'd go on the offensive in September, or late August, and I'd say, and I'd say, this conspiracy has become, at the precise moment this was going on, that's what I was fighting about."},{"start":16792.79,"end":16797.05,"text":"So I would hold my fire now."},{"start":16797.13,"end":16802.55,"text":"But Joe, we have something to come out of it."},{"start":16802.65,"end":16804.83,"text":"And I don't think you lose anything."},{"start":16804.85,"end":16806.95,"text":"You are not placating, in my view, anybody."},{"start":16808.93,"end":16814.54,"text":"And I continue to believe that Dresden now is a very uneasy place."},{"start":16815.12,"end":16818.6,"text":"They would like a clean bill of health from you."},{"start":16818.76,"end":16823.14,"text":"And I will keep them in the custody that they did something wrong."},{"start":16823.16,"end":16823.7,"text":"I see your point."},{"start":16823.79,"end":16830.21,"text":"In other words, you want me to say anything that says they didn't do something wrong?"},{"start":16830.25,"end":16831.95,"text":"They hurt the country."},{"start":16831.97,"end":16834.97,"text":"And I believe whenever you stood firm, you came."},{"start":16836.89,"end":16841.81,"text":"I really believe we are at a dramatic and critical moment."},{"start":16842.15,"end":16853.48,"text":"And we just imagined it at the precise moment that we were doing all these sins and taboos and impeding these sons of bitches."},{"start":16853.5,"end":16859.61,"text":"I thought, you know, I am a human being, but I don't know what these people have to do with it."},{"start":16859.63,"end":16862.59,"text":"They have a pretty good idea."},{"start":16863.64,"end":16867.04,"text":"They have a pretty good idea of what we are doing."},{"start":16867.08,"end":16870.81,"text":"Or what I think the bad guys are doing is because they think we might be doing something."},{"start":16870.83,"end":16873.01,"text":"I think they're trying to destroy the negotiation."},{"start":16873.09,"end":16873.65,"text":"Oh, I think so."},{"start":16873.67,"end":16874.43,"text":"That's my point."},{"start":16874.45,"end":16876.15,"text":"Because for you to succeed, you've got to have a choice."},{"start":16876.17,"end":16879.16,"text":"That's why the PT's announced it."},{"start":16880.58,"end":16882.1,"text":"They can't announce it."},{"start":16882.12,"end":16882.94,"text":"They can't announce it."},{"start":16882.98,"end":16884.74,"text":"They're going to be like, take this."},{"start":16886.9,"end":16887.94,"text":"This is a tremendous move."},{"start":16888.52,"end":16895.58,"text":"Whichever way it looks, the peaking announcement is going to make it look like big misstep."},{"start":16897.3,"end":16906.65,"text":"I would expect, he has maybe a 40% chance by the end of July, one more meeting after the 12th to tell us where to be attractive."},{"start":16908.98,"end":16921.89,"text":"How do you want to, how do we handle this situation?"},{"start":16923.36,"end":16925.36,"text":"I just don't want to sit in the middle of it."},{"start":16925.46,"end":16927.44,"text":"I'm just buzzing out."},{"start":16927.46,"end":16928.76,"text":"I don't think they'll ask me."},{"start":16928.78,"end":16930.62,"text":"My cousin just got there."},{"start":16930.64,"end":16931.72,"text":"He'll ask what got him."},{"start":16931.76,"end":16932.5,"text":"I said, oh, I don't know."},{"start":16932.54,"end":16935.86,"text":"The man's people need to see what's going on."},{"start":16935.88,"end":16940.16,"text":"I said, well, the man's people need to see what's going on."},{"start":16940.24,"end":16942.32,"text":"I said, well, the man's people need to see what's going on."},{"start":16942.38,"end":16948.04,"text":"You have a few nibbles here and there."},{"start":16948.14,"end":16950.2,"text":"I'll keep you confused."},{"start":16951.58,"end":16952,"text":"I'll leave out tow."},{"start":16952.02,"end":16952.58,"text":"I'll say we've got no time."},{"start":16952.6,"end":16957.44,"text":"But then, when you see him this time, you think you should let him tow, right?"},{"start":16957.46,"end":16962.55,"text":"Well, I think you and I should discuss it after this, to see whether it's worth the time."},{"start":16962.57,"end":16963.53,"text":"It might be the time."},{"start":16963.55,"end":16967.71,"text":"And if you tell him, are you going to let him tow?"},{"start":16967.73,"end":16973.11,"text":"Well, that's the way we, I think we can do this at this time."},{"start":16973.13,"end":16976.83,"text":"Just say he's got to keep the seat and so forth."},{"start":16976.87,"end":16978.01,"text":"The difficulty, again, is that"},{"start":16979.45,"end":16987.77,"text":"in California, and I just threw it off my bus, part of the Marshall Bridge, and it's not that much."},{"start":16987.81,"end":16994.38,"text":"The tragedy is, the Cuba thing, we had to do three parts, because once they knew it, he kept leaking stuff."},{"start":16994.46,"end":17000.06,"text":"And then, as soon as he leaked something, they put a ship back in there, and then they pulled it out again."},{"start":17000.08,"end":17005.93,"text":"This leaking thing in the press is really killing us, that cheap little shot they took on Monday."},{"start":17007.63,"end":17012.37,"text":"In the sense that it put the idea in people's heads, no one would be concerned with my coming to China."},{"start":17012.39,"end":17014.43,"text":"Well, they already began to ask."},{"start":17014.61,"end":17015.29,"text":"I'm already going now."},{"start":17015.31,"end":17017.35,"text":"Yeah, but I can't think about it."},{"start":17017.45,"end":17017.53,"text":"Oh."},{"start":17017.55,"end":17018.65,"text":"I'm not going to think about it now."},{"start":17018.67,"end":17030.34,"text":"I'm going to think about the impact it's going to have on me."},{"start":17030.36,"end":17031.64,"text":"I'm going to think about it now."},{"start":17035.05,"end":17037.25,"text":"But I don't think that it's going to happen now."},{"start":17037.27,"end":17038.59,"text":"But I just, I don't talk to any of them."},{"start":17038.61,"end":17040.41,"text":"I told Haig to take the call."},{"start":17040.55,"end":17043.65,"text":"Haig told Kraslow my exact schedule, where I'll be back."},{"start":17043.67,"end":17049.77,"text":"I was supposed to be there to find an extra day for Pakistan, I did say that."},{"start":17049.81,"end":17057.21,"text":"But I think by that time I'd paused it so much, trapped in my mind."},{"start":17059.64,"end":17065.34,"text":"I've had a murderous schedule in each town, and I'm going to announce it so they really think I'm going to do nothing."},{"start":17065.36,"end":17069.93,"text":"Because I've got about ten appointments."},{"start":17070.99,"end":17072.05,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":17075.01,"end":17080.57,"text":"But be sure you're primarily, you know, all right, be sure you rest up and sleep."},{"start":17081.02,"end":17087.24,"text":"And, uh, they, take off at 8 o'clock, and you are, you know, you're, you're going to be fine."},{"start":17087.26,"end":17093.61,"text":"Of course, you've got your field trip prepared, and, you know, I've got to take you back up, but that's a great time."},{"start":17093.69,"end":17095.39,"text":"Uh, don't worry about it."},{"start":17095.53,"end":17102.15,"text":"I'm just going to get it down to this point, but I just simply, before you go into that meeting, put it down a lot."},{"start":17103.27,"end":17106.6,"text":"The four minimum things you want to get out of it."},{"start":17106.62,"end":17112.64,"text":"Are you sure you get those?"},{"start":17112.72,"end":17115.4,"text":"Because maybe you could go on and get something out of it."},{"start":17115.42,"end":17116.4,"text":"Is there something going on in your area?"},{"start":17116.46,"end":17121.51,"text":"Should I say that the Chinese have got problems, the Russians have got problems, or the U.S. has got problems?"},{"start":17121.53,"end":17121.69,"text":"I agree."},{"start":17121.73,"end":17128.89,"text":"I think you will put your finger on one very important thing, and I have tended to agree with this."},{"start":17129.11,"end":17132.29,"text":"You know some of the Chinese are going to feel that they are going to be scared to death, I think."},{"start":17134.09,"end":17135.89,"text":"And then the beauty is they can't be reassured."},{"start":17135.91,"end":17151.25,"text":"They can't be reassured."},{"start":17153.03,"end":17156.58,"text":"And by the Chinese, you know, they won't be able to do it."},{"start":17156.68,"end":17162.54,"text":"Well, on the press thing, I'm trying to go to you and I will do it, Mr. President, as particularly if, assuming the trial effect comes down on July 19, you know,"},{"start":17163.07,"end":17164.72,"text":"Then let that go to look like a bunch of tubes."},{"start":17164.74,"end":17165.78,"text":"Let that be our first work."},{"start":17165.82,"end":17168.64,"text":"Now, the only possible thing I was thinking was to use an interesting device."},{"start":17168.66,"end":17176.82,"text":"I could use the device of a letter tube, and it would remind me of the Chicago Precinct."},{"start":17177.12,"end":17188.11,"text":"Well, do you remember they made you write a letter during the riots whenever we played these things practically?"},{"start":17189.46,"end":17190.08,"text":"Oh, yeah, that's right."},{"start":17190.12,"end":17190.48,"text":"They did this."},{"start":17190.5,"end":17192.42,"text":"I frankly would just let this thing out on its coat."},{"start":17192.44,"end":17194.42,"text":"Oh, I don't think I should say the same thing."},{"start":17194.44,"end":17196.24,"text":"I would not say the same thing."},{"start":17196.26,"end":17196.64,"text":"I really wouldn't."},{"start":17196.66,"end":17198.52,"text":"And you know, I identify with the ground, and I don't pretend to."},{"start":17198.54,"end":17200.84,"text":"I'll just say the same thing."},{"start":17200.86,"end":17203.27,"text":"And I'd be ready to follow."},{"start":17203.29,"end":17203.77,"text":"I wouldn't do that."},{"start":17203.79,"end":17205.83,"text":"I'll just say the same thing."},{"start":17246.01,"end":17248.06,"text":"All right."}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":15850,"end":17255,"startMethod":"llm-alignment","endMethod":"llm-alignment"},"transcriptConfidence":"high","transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discussed the administration's public relations strategy regarding the Pentagon Papers and the Supreme Court's pending decision, ultimately agreeing to avoid a formal statement to remain on the offensive. They also reviewed the complexities of Kissinger’s upcoming diplomatic mission to the People's Republic of China, emphasizing the need for absolute secrecy to ensure its success. Furthermore, the participants addressed the ongoing challenge of media leaks and their potential to undermine both domestic policy and sensitive international negotiations.","topics":["Pentagon Papers","Freedom of the Press","Henry Kissinger","People's Republic of China","Supreme Court","Media Leaks","Foreign Policy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T12:21:10.351Z"},"topicSlugs":["pentagon-papers","freedom-of-the-press","henry-kissinger","peoples-republic-of-china","supreme-court","media-leaks","foreign-policy"],"audioDurationSec":1408,"audioFiles":[{"file":"261-042-splice.mp3","bytes":22528462,"durationSec":1408,"bitrate":128002,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:27.208Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:12.851Z","originalFilename":["261a.mp3","261b.mp3","261c.mp3","261d.mp3"],"spliceSource":{"spliceType":"bigtape","sourceFiles":["261c.mp3"],"cutStart":15848.5,"cutEnd":17256.5,"adjustedStart":15848.5,"adjustedEnd":17256.5,"boundaryMethod":"llm-alignment","confidence":"high","splicedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:27.208Z"},"transcriptPrev":{"segments":290,"replacedAt":"2026-09-18T14:11:49.906Z"},"audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/261-042-splice.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/261-042","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/261/conversation-261-042","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}