Conversation 264-003

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Hi, Henry, how are you?

I've been working here pretty hard.

What were you doing today?

I had breakfast, and I had a pretty thing to go and be.

I didn't kiss them any time.

No, no, I don't mind it, don't you?

I mean, it's way too your time.

Well, still, they had to hear from me, and they should have stopped speculating.

because they want to do studies on Chinese economy.

Oh, I see.

Well, that's for George.

Well, thank you.

How are you?

Tell me about your last 900 years.

He'd go out for dinner.

I just went to dinner with some friends, and I think it was just after he was pretty ecstatic.

He went to 21, and I went to him once.

I was just going to say, how did I do that?

God bless you, President, and people sending over.

Oh, yeah.

People sending notes over.

That's right.

I think it's good you went out on a bunch of groups.

And then, uh, they just all were, you know, it's a hundred weeks of last month, you know, a bunch more so, I think, than if, uh, we had announced Russian time.

No, no.

The Russians are very interested.

And now it will be very significant.

Yeah.

But...

Yeah, because now I'm searching for the fractal domain.

Was it in the breathing system?

In the breathing system.

Although, it's not going to happen in 10 months.

It's going to go away.

Okay.

How long ago did that happen?

I don't know.

It must have played an interesting part in the fact that it was out of the green.

You know, the energy.

The energy of the green, you see, is pretty snake-like.

And, uh...

Of course, he didn't even make what's made first.

You see, the press, they don't want to hear the business when it goes.

So, let me know how Frank was.

Frank was the greatest informatic who was not a guy.

To get down to the finish, that's a big deal.

It's a little bit of a key factor.

It's a little bit of a...

You think you may have another?

You really think he meant it?

Oh, yes, but he's written it, Mr. President.

No, no, no, no, I know he's written it, but I meant the terms before.

Now, Mr. President, he's realistic enough.

Typically, he said, great, long-headed.

He said, now you, he said...

He said, typically what?

Typically, Nixon says...

He never said long-headed before, did he?

But he said, this is the first time in your administration that you put your own total stand on something.

He said, no, you can't find just one thing like that in Mr. Fox.

I just told him what he said.

I said, well, you can't.

And he said, in three and a half minutes, you'll find just one thing like that.

I said, no, you can't find just one thing like that in Mr. Fox.

Oh, he was just arriving.

Oh, and on the other hand, is he realistic enough to know that this is a hell of a lot of hard sledding?

Well, that's what I thought, sir.

Oh, son of a bitch.

And this is what is beginning to bore me.

It's no problem to you, Mr. President, but these are the toughest people in the world.

And we shouldn't have any illusions.

I'm sure they're talking about getting out of Asia and North Asia.

Well, yeah, it would be nice.

And it gives us all the belief and confidence and love that we're going to do a good job.

I think it would be a bad idea for the two presidential assistants to show up and speak with too much of a strength.

It hasn't supposed to be collusion.

Well, the difficulty is that I don't have anybody else to be advanced on.

I hope that it's a very tough thing.

Well...

I think that's much better.

That's much better.

Let's just let him go simply and go low-key.

You just arrange for the advance and then he goes over.

I think I might do what might be.

I don't want you to get into the advancing.

I think that's what I meant.

It's like me with the, never get it in a crack.

I mean, just let that hole be done, and there is something else.

I have a concern.

One is, I think what might work, Mr. President, is if I will take Jacob along to the exploratory, or keep with them, come back with a list of questions.

Now, they have to be prepared before Erichman comes about the sort of question he's gonna write.

Because they're totally electrically equipped and they shouldn't be in cold with it.

So either somebody ought to give it a crush or somebody who knows it.

You're right.

The advancement, I think you could put it this way, the advancement should not be done on the same trip that you go on.

You know, it's just a trip that between words can go to this point.

How much the advancement...

But I had no, I had no thought of, I guess, I didn't want to, I wanted a man of total command to do the advancing.

You can't be somebody that knows, that can't handle the thing, that doesn't know everything, everything.

And they insisted on the trip, that it'd be, you know, to do the, you know, what I meant is to turn to the advancing, you know, you just take a chance, just let them get to you there.

Where you go, I don't think there's all that money, all that.

You can't push them around.

You can't just go.

There's all sorts of can be that you just can't go.

And we have seen this with very important nonconformist people that we have to realize that it's life.

They're very much Henry Light.

They're companies.

I mean, they're Chinese, but they're also Chinese.

I developed the Chinese in other parts of the world.

Whether it's food, and swag, and all the rest, and you're very nice, and there's a hell of a lot of grace, I wouldn't come down to you.

They're just, they're out to lick us, that's all.

So we need to, I mean, you need to push them around.

Just, you'll follow the instructions right down to the T.

and what we want done.

In other words, he just has to arrange where we stay, how many grooms there are.

You know, it's a question.

It is a question.

You just go over and say, well, now the party will consist of this and that and the other.

Can you determine that?

You can just say we'll have 500 freshmen or 100 freshmen or 10.

We'll have so many members of the party.

We'll need this and that.

Irwin knows what we need.

I mean, in other words, where the Secret Service has to be, where the communications have to be, what kind of space we have to have, what we have to do, what transportation is available, you get settled.

He had nothing to do with that.

You work out the agenda and you work on the travel plans.

In other words, if we're going to another city, he's able to do that.

He won't get into it.

He will be different in other events.

I don't want any goddamn sightseeing.

I mean, unless they insist.

I don't want to go to the big city and I don't want to go to the great wall.

I don't want to do any of that stuff.

That's the kind of stuff I want to do.

I want to be very cold-blooded.

I want to be cold turkey all the way.

And that's the rest of all that crap.

That means the other thing.

Because I don't want to be showing off that.

Unless they want to.

Totally up for that.

If they want it, that's right.

If they want it, it's great.

The only thing I would like to do, I think, I would like to visit one other city.

I don't think you should always, it's always my practice to travel to one other city.

But, and then I think that, however, I think you're right, though.

I think that it would be good to have him go over and let him take, at that time, he can have, take the walkman, the communication guy, he won't bother him.

Also, also that way, I mean, instead of I go, yeah, you should just let him do it.

I have a little...

Exactly.

I have a little...

How about Frankl and his, do you think it was worth seeing?

What about his editors?

Did he say that they were just like, well, of course, it's the same way.

I can't tell about the Pentagon.

Well, how did you get around, how did you do that?

I said, I want you to know that it's me, Andre Linder, that's the guy I'm talking about.

You know, I'm with Frankl.

And I'm not sure if you should, but that's the presidential assistant.

But I want to talk to you, Senator, as a friend, that I think it was unworthy, it was great, and it was great, and unworthy in my experience.

I said, no, we have really heard about it, not because of what it has to do with government, it has nothing to do with what it has to do with government.

I'm just saying what we had to put up with it, too, while we were setting up this trip.

And I said...

I said, Mr. President...

because of his basic respect for the quality of what you guys have asked me to see.

And I can tell you honestly that it was the wrong opposition.

Almost everyone else in the White House, and even I wasn't sure of it, I don't know if it's true, but I heard nothing good there.

He was very betrayed, and he said, you know, he said, maybe we shouldn't have done it, but then if you read LBJ's book, he's got it all anyway.

Of course, he's got a .

He doesn't have that much, but .

I didn't get into it .

Here's the thing that I have in mind .

the times when greed comes to the crunch.

Greed comes to the crunch.

If we are very lucky for a policy, they think for a policy, not for us.

May very reluctantly take the position.

That's my view.

Not because they might need it,

but because they think there is a modest chance, or an evident chance, that I might win.

Therefore, and because it looks now, in many cases, it must be, what do you think it must be?

You know, I talked with Caldwell, for example, the other time.

He says he can't be one.

Caldwell, he aspires to something.

He says it must be a eulogy.

He said, I will walk.

And he said, I publicly support must be a walk for eulogy.

That's true, sir.

But if we now keep our cool, and if we suppose anything,

We announce the date of your visit in China, late September, early October, late November, early December.

It is then late October we announce your visit to Moscow.

If we break Vietnam, if we build one way or the other, and get sold, and since we built it, and another cable from Russia, I think, damn it, this is going to be the most spectacular foreign policy administration in the century.

In fact, I don't know when, but every drop would be found when we came in.

I just thought they were a big problem.

Who would make that, even the Middle East, which we're not having all that, you know, all these people.

But, and so that we would make it a whole lot at the right time.

We could throw that into the country, because actually, the ticket bothers me about the Middle East, Mr. President.

Now, if I prove anything, it's the willingness of the people to apologize for my life.

What I don't like about the Middle East is that we are negotiating with ourselves and we never create a reality.

Well, let me say this on the times.

I don't want them to get the way they are.

They hate our guts and so forth and so on.

But on the other hand, this China thing, I think, really does shape the times on two grounds.

One,

They know it's right.

They know it's gutsy.

And they didn't.

None of them would have done it.

None of their candidates would have done it.

That's another thing I told Branco.

I said, now, look.

I said, look at the emotional turmoil of this man.

He is going against all of his friends.

He's carrying on the public security of all of the people the next year in the building, in many ways.

And yet, never once would he be prepared to trip in his own house.

Did I even get him to say a word about what this meant to his old associate?

And, well, I'm an awful man, but he desperately got me.

I said, since then, I've noticed that it's proven the cause of death, but it never penetrated.

And I said, the judge will put it down.

He said, that's right.

But another thing I like is that he's not becoming anti-Soviet.

He was completely out of it.

You see, another reason he should be anti-Soviet, you know, he's pro-Israel.

Goddamn, when are the American Jews, you know what I mean, like Frank, one in the name of God, are they going to get the same attitude towards us if they're pro-Israel?

that any sensible youth, I mean, like Harvey, he's saying, I told you, what, in the name of God, is to marry with people like Franklin?

I told him.

Not Franklin.

I told him the trouble with the Soviets is, I said, if they had dealt with the president on the president's level instead of screeching and fighting and getting every nickel they can, we would have had a comprehensive settlement with them already.

And that's the obstacle, not this or that.

He said to bring this all over.

Oh, but he said it would be an accident.

Like the injured car, you know.

But that's... We got to it.

The president, as long as we got this over here, perhaps it would drive him all over town.

Rather than how he was killed, that's much better than having him go around talking about it, saying what that is what it is.

Oh, you're still screaming.

So you didn't really know.

You didn't talk.

You were just bringing your hand up.

And both, they were screaming at you.

Both died publicly, trying to split this totalist man.

What did you think of Joe and Lange's interview with students yesterday?

It's like, oh, isn't there a baby?

It's like, oh, it's been chucked out of shape for a minute.

One letter each letter.

It's a great job.

We didn't send it out.

It was a State Department message.

They didn't do a presidential message.

There was a State Department message, which, after we cleared it, they said the President had authorized us to send it.

I see.

That's all right in a way, though, in a sense, when we say, kind of getting it done once except hanging it on the President.

My point is this.

They have got to take, I think, one thing that has got to be gotten across to everybody.

See, here's the point, Henry.

This comes, and then people say, oh, well, now there's no money exchange.

They're just trying to kick us out of Asia.

The United States is too pent up on Taiwan.

That's not going to happen in person.

So that will make the blue ball grow for them.

But, I mean, don't you agree, Henry?

And that's going to be enough.

Then, of course, what counts then is the result.

What counts is...

I think we're going to get it.

Well, I think we, one way or the other, we're going to get it or we're going to get out.

It may not be very successful on Monday because they just can't carry it.

I read the old transcript and you might want to read the transcript of the last time.

You will see that

Well, let me come back to my conversation here.

If you, let me, if we get here now,

We've got these boys on the left, off by the balls, and then we do the turn around.

We have got to punish them.

Oh, yeah.

We've got to punish the left.

We've got to punish the right.

Don't you agree?

Oh, we're going to let them up for that again.

Because here they are, breaking for this and that.

But they're breaking, as I have said, for the wrong reasons.

Many of them are.

And we might even consider doing it on the right.

Yes, yes.

Well, anyway, there will be this and that.

The other thing we're sure of, I won't say anything about it.

He's got his head.

I think he laid the foundation for that.

I have to go back and look for it.

But, uh, in fact, I was missing it, so...

But what prangles, what prangles, what really captures him is the fact that it's done, that it's done, that it's done.

He knows the angels and how to tell them.

Mr. President.

Well, Joe has to say something.

Now let me tell you a couple of things about this first.

I did some thinking last night, and I think I've got it pretty well in mind, and we'll talk again on Saturday before you go and have a discussion on something.

I think that the, I think that the thought of the person with regard to the timing of your trip to Bruce

I do not think they're having that, let's say,

the 15th of September or something like that in that ballpark.

Indicate to any over-eaters that there's other local events.

The only thing that I was thinking of there is to play that off against the other one.

However, the announcement of that trip is enough, basically.

So do you think it could be a very cooperative event?

Well, we can do it in the last month of September.

It could be the 15th.

How do we love the Chinese ambassador that I've seen on Saturday?

that now, also, at that time, actually work on the time of the announcement.

I think now, in terms of the other figures, I think, too, that the way it should be, that what you visualize, that you will simply go and talk

They wanted some linguistic for one thing.

That person you'll see in the transcript.

Second, what I thought I would do is to go through the agenda in great detail so that you won't be hit by any surprise in the company.

And I will tell you that I don't know what you're going to say to the president.

I'll say it roughly.

It's all part of the mission of the president.

It's going to speak to you.

Then I want to work out if that's impossible for you to carry out.

You don't want to sit and be carried out.

It can still be fixed if it puts a purpose in the virtual world.

After you've beaten him, you want somebody to play the role of the judge next to him.

I think you can then set rules.

I can't go down the road with them.

The way that you arrange to account for the MLB, you don't want to become the role of the diplomat.

You've got to be here.

I know that I am as well.

Now, let me ask you, the way you would do it is to have the Chinese catch you up in the sense of the diplomat would be, or how to, why is the Chinese would not, I have to say, have a rocker go to the president together?

What I mean is, how are we going to get the first part of the man

I'll just come to you.

General Rogers, I'll show him the transcript of the conversation.

I said I didn't bother to put it in the summary or show where it says they were likely to survive.

But we have proofs to have this study done.

And if you say you want, you envision him as your contact with D.K.

and D.K.

Now,

I don't think I'll just open it.

I guess I'm just taking it out in advance.

Isn't it?

I'm getting extant letters again from the North people.

It's so advanced.

Yeah.

It's written in the letter.

Congratulations.

Yes, sir.

He says it's a great triumph for us.

It's a great triumph for us.

Well, let me say one thing I was saying about the Rogers thing that I want you to be excited about.

I do think it's important that they are taking a little bit.

I did not want the historical record to be wrong on the preparation of the reading book.

I didn't want it to be to show the reading book.

I know it is here.

Why don't you call it in?

And what happened was he said, after we received

the idea that it was possible to do this.

He asked you to just go back and on your own, won't you defend the world?

You've derailed every possible issue that might come up.

And we ran over the issue.

And you prepared... Well, I told him to prepare blocking flights and so forth.

I didn't take that much credit.

Well, I want you to.

I want you to know that what I said was...

We sat down and we played out a new philosophy that made men disappointed in something like that.

I didn't go down to this thing, but I did.

But I would say that you came back and said, we prepared this.

This was the basic document that when I read it through, I said to you, this is a story about, and so forth and so on.

I made some annotations on it and so forth.

And that's the way it was done.

I just don't, what I meant is that I, oh, I don't think there's any great things going on.

I don't think, I don't say those kinds of things.

But the idea that those people in a few rooms

Chinese experts state of this whole thing, that they wheeled us into this and so forth.

Goddamn, I don't know what they did.

I hope they have a, you know, if you don't know about it, maybe it's a regular issue.

I think what I can do is get inside, you know, and show them the book.

I'll show you the book for the purpose of making it.

This idea,

You have not found the three men in the Lincoln City Room sweating over this?

Huh?

I'm not small about this, and I want to get Rogers in it.

You're not small about it, but God damn it.

Somebody has put out something.

It's one thing to save the space, but it's another for him to participate in something he didn't do.

And we gave him the letter, fed it on soil, we gave him the letter.

Now, the other point to this, regarding the visits of the others, it seems to me that when we talk to the Chinese professors here, you should talk very cool and very direct about what we want to say.

After all, we have to understand that we love the end, that I love the end of the end.

And we should not let a matter of this sort, which only involves a question of time and so forth, we shouldn't let it endanger

the very great nature of which we may find that we can make progress in.

And that's the reason that we don't feel that this should be handled in this way, that there can be no substance in trouble.

It's one that we've got to understand.

One thing that I'm talking to this thing about, there can be no substance to talks, whatever, with anybody except the President of the United States.

You can't talk with members of his party.

You can't talk with members of the other party.

And that's something we've got to understand.

And if only that the only one that really can make this point is

And I would go on.

I would put the list on it.

I would say, look, you've got the chairman of the Senate, Ann Payne, and then you've got Senator Donovan.

You've got Senator Power of the Powerful Center.

You have a number of Congressmen, Senator, Congressmen, and so forth.

You've got some prominent power, but not as many Congressmen.

You've got the vice president, who is the, I'm not sure what his name is.

And you've gotten ahead of the power of all of the American laborers, which in your opinion was the best way to speak.

I said, now, here is our problem.

Our problem is that if the appearances that this assembly has surrendered itself in advance to those that they are the ones that are making

that the president's freedom of action is seriously restricted.

That is what you meant when you scripted your message, you said that his freedom of action would be limited.

But I think the idea that I let them know that there was an understanding, I mean, that Chinese maybe have immigration and all that sort of thing, and they handle it much better than the Russians and behave much better than them.

They will not let us get away with anything.

We cannot let them get away with something where they breathe.

The only thing is we have to be careful since this is not an easy one to testify to.

I know.

I simply say that these are points, these are points that we are not saying we don't want them to come.

We're simply saying don't let their coming and the time of their coming and the way of their coming in any way impregnate the presidential ability to discuss.

Do you know what I mean?

And I think that's why I say, now look, as a matter of fact, you say the president welcomes others coming.

He thinks it's very good for members of both parties.

This is bigger than parties.

He's not objecting at all.

He thinks it's just fine.

In fact, they could even, I'd have no objection to their announcing.

In other words, to their announcing that others are coming now.

They could announce that they're inviting so-and-so.

I think that's perfectly all right, too.

I think that would be a very good line.

But the real problem, as you said,

that is to have, that our people have a penchant for talking and compulsion.

They come back and say this, so they can announce it and set up the visits.

But what a pretty big concern, because it's a great number of people coming.

So that it confuses the fundamental issues that we have to talk about.

And for example, when you see Joe in Miami, three and a half hours with a group of seniors.

that you can imagine you can have three and a half hours with a group of the senators, if you see my point.

Now, it may be that you can't accomplish anything.

They may be looking very cynically to their own needs, and they figure we better play both sides.

We have no objection to that.

That's perfectly all right.

We understand that totally.

In fact, they should.

But the question is, why, after we have an understanding of critical issues, we now have our data in a earlier time, why can't we just tell these people to come back to the Congress and chair them?

That's the main point.

Congress has to chair them and see what they're going to say.

and the fact that you can announce some particular people the best way.

But I would say that first, there was an understanding that you allowed the color of the thing.

Second, that we heard the reason, the reason why we considered it a problem.

And then, why would you just, we know that you're very confident.

Why don't you announce a number of different comments that you like?

That's perfectly all right.

That's good.

We do feel that to the extent possible, unfortunately, that they should be accepted as patients now.

Let them come later.

They're coming later will not jeopardize in any way our talks.

They're coming before might jeopardize our talks.

For those who have letters, the way these people might use them,

It would be if you were patient-patient.

I frankly do not, I think it would have been so invisible to myself.

But it would be man's responsibility.

That's no promise.

I think man's responsibility is to be a brother.

And to be a brother to the people of the world.

It's very hard for you to say, having a leader, having a leader in the Senate is one thing, but to have presidential candidates who are out of the loop, you know, whether it's something else, you know, that's just really what it gets down to.

For example, you could say, that we're discussing the title, it's just the type of it, and also how it's handled.

You cannot have that negotiate with other people.

And it gets also to another point.

I think they, they must be, if they want us to come, it's just like our relation to the rest of the tent.

Of course we want to come.

We now have to go.

But we must be in a position of making, or otherwise, our, our is in a position to just write down the two.

Well, I, I certainly won't take the indication that

that if they start playing them in the public theater, it may impede the trip.

Hell, I threatened to.

I was dying on that Saturday when I told the president I'm talking about the summit again.

He had said, yes, sir, but I was there to come back.

And when I said to them in the theater morning, I'm taking him on if I'm playing in the theater, he said, I'm taking him on.

Great.

Thank you.

No, you couldn't handle it better.

In actuality, you couldn't handle the agreement better.

Look, right now, a lot of the children's voices say what we've been saying.

The agreement, the way you've been handling it, they would have said it doesn't triumph.

Now you've blown it.

For us to complete this whole agreement out of agreement when we were on the ground, after that was after all the conflicts, right?

That was perhaps the hardest part.

Well, that's right.

So I get worried.

I'd like to keep that, I'd like to keep open possibilities.

I did not choose to work here.

I cannot apologize to you.

I hope our allies will speak to me next time.

I hope you know what I mean.

I mean, it's not the end of me.

But it's always amazing to be able to talk to you about that.

I hope you know what I mean.

I'm not going to tell him anything.

Don't worry, we're going to bombshell him just like we want to do it.

His business of consulting with Congress, consulting with allies, is crap.

I'm saying the bad advantage would be if we do it, if you're on the West Coast, nobody expects you to consult with them.

You can't get them.

If we get to this point, Henry, then we can make it up to him any time.

What do you mean?

We're going to make all amounts and some consequences.

But Bob, you were holding onto them all in front of the kind of television that just flew out and tried to beat it in salt.

Salt was done right.

Don't tell anybody to do it.

And that's the presidential leadership.

And the press will scream and the Congress will tremble and harass the goddamn them.

As I said, the damn Republican gesture there.

And this is the only people that don't jump on the bell.

I went to the ball game last night.

My God, here are these people that don't know anything.

They're all cheering up.

They're at the ball game.

They just came up back where they were.

They drove pretty much 109 years old.

And they'll return on the ground.

That's right.

I sure wish you luck on whatever trick you're going to be taking.

No, I didn't move.

This is a Negro child of eight years old.

But I walked over to him, and when I did that, I was like, maybe that's the best way to do it.

He would stop me and go, oh, good.

Just two weeks ago, he was sort of looking at you, yeah, when you were powerful, and he was staring at me.

Well, I know that he stepped up to something, huh?

Well, it's something very great, really.

You come to the insurance company, and it's something you've done for years with these people.

But we have stepped up to something, and we've started to play the role of a great power, and that's something else.

The United States is sitting here.

The Soviet Union is pushing us around.

The Japanese Union is pushing us around.

The European Union is pushing us around.

And now, all of a sudden, we seem to be leading the world in that place.

And, well...

So actually, the only thing I was going to say about deciding to do this, the purpose of the agreement, I want you to meet him on that much.

I really want him to know how that band club was prepared.

I don't want the impression of that, or maybe you've already corrected that impression, that the State Department, you and I, sat down.

We sweat over that thing and prepared a position they didn't know who had gone to that thing about it.

It may not be worth doing it.

You've covered it.

Well, I think I've spoken.

Maybe you've missed the handwritten stuff I have.

Maybe you've covered up what you've been saying.

I think the main thing is that you could say that this book was prepared.

It was prepared just between you and him alone.

Grunewald wants to come down next to you.

That would be it.

I think that's a mistake.

I think, you know, after what Cydie's talking about, you've seen Cydie.

No, but that's, that's been all the time.

And, uh, there, the whole, the whole crowd up there helped to get us.

And I think you ought to play it.

Okay.

Play that one tough.

Just not go, you know.

Go ahead.

Just play Cydie.

In other words, play one of them.

They all hate each other anyway.

Right.

We'll let it grow off of them at a later time.

Saints to a voice.