Conversation 269-021

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Well, if you're going to... Hi, Henry.

We've got a few minutes to go over some of this question.

Mr. Viacony of the Senate Career Board, please.

Hello?

Yeah.

Hello?

Yeah.

But what about the plan?

More important, what is the, what about this idea that it's not possible with coming up with two things, one, and just directing it?

I wanted some statement put out today that the HEW people in our regional office are being disciplined and removed.

A second statement put out that the President personally totally disapproved of the HEW plan.

Is that correct?

That's the way I feel about it.

Now, the ATW plant, I've got information that you're not aware of.

Those people down there deliberately screwed us on this.

I mean, the ATW is a regional office, George.

Now, we're not going to allow this, so we'll start with that proposition.

Now, what else do you have?

No, it must not do that.

It must say, the President disapproves of the ATW plan.

Those precise words, if I have to, I'll write it on the long hand.

Is that clear?

I disapprove of the ATW plan.

We disapprove of the ATW plan.

We not only do not approve it, we disapprove it.

And also, I want this statement put out on here that the regional office in, and I have to work it out one way or another, in Austin,

that those people are being dismissed.

They're going to be removed or whatever they know that needs to be done.

Something has got to get out with regard to that because I cannot allow this kind of activity to be done.

We can't even butt the judge, but we sure as hell can do something about the regional office director and all sorts of things.

All right.

What else did you want to say?

Yeah.

without the plan, without Bucky.

Well, I didn't tell you I thought I was not to go down there.

Well, but they're not there, George.

They're, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, all right.

I agree, I agree.

Well, I'm getting out a statement to the effect that none of them, that I am personally proposing an amendment for providing that none of the billion and a half will go for busing.

And so we'll handle that.

And actually, if it comes down here with busing, then I'm going to leave you with it.

So I've got a very strong position there.

So we'll get on the right side of that.

If I get so strong, I'm going to crack her on it for sure.

And everybody else can do it for her, but I'm going to fight for the court every way, following her, and we can't just keep this goddamn thing from going on.

All right, cancel your trip, but work out and be sure at least this thing is safe.

I will ride over here tonight.

I talked to George and they got a pair.

It's all fouled up and they can't find anybody.

Now look, I told him and he didn't seem to get the point.

He was surprised when he learned that I personally am opposed to the event, that there be no busing at 100 degrees and a half.

I also went further and I'm coming to now.

If that bill comes down here with busing in it, I'm going to veto it.

Now, let's get, let's get some people, let's get some discipline in this goddamn shop.

He also said that when I, he was surprised, he didn't know about, apparently, about those AGW people in the regional office.

The part of the conspiracy, and I said, George, they are, I believe, disciplined, and if you doubt, there's fake history.

Now, John, you've got to get a hold of George and so forth, and shake him up a little bit, and then, or do something, and then take over, or either do that, or I've got to drop everything I do, and I'm coming to do everything.

I don't want to get in this goddamn thing.

Now, what can we do?

Can we, can we, first, go ahead, tell me what's your plan?

Because George had no idea about all this.

I understand.

You're going to have a press conference?

Oh, about two in the morning.

All right, fine.

Well, I told them not to bother.

I told them not to bother.

Yeah, fine, swell.

Right, right, right.

Let me say this.

Don't bother, don't bother.

The Austin trip should be off in two, three.

They're not ready to go.

They don't understand it.

But as soon as you finish your press conference, good luck on it, then...

You can come up on a non-action course if the railroad strikes hard.

Don't, please, God, now, don't hit family assistance.

You know, stay the hell off of family assistance.

Revenue sharing, yeah.

Yeah.

And also say this, that we are also shocked to learn that there is also talk of a Congress adjournment in October.

And you're to say that the President, if that happens, that the President believes it will happen in a special session.

Okay.

But then I will come on mute.

You've got to hold a show and say, God damn, that's even.

Why didn't he know about the regional office thing?

Or doesn't he?

He doesn't, apparently.

I'll tell you, Henry, that you, Larry, cannot trust some goddamn liberals.

Sons of bitches, you know, they think they can work around so-and-so.

They've got a right to their points of view.

Some things, by God, have got to follow.

Well, they've beaten the intellectual dominance for so long that they've just handed it back.

Just stand it in for me.

Let me go over the things that I need to discuss.

There's only about two to three or four questions.

probably about China, but I think that the answers there are sort of one.

On the event, I'm asked by Secretary of State Sebelin, and the statement was, I was apparently working on this, and it represents my family.

How will it be delayed if those Chinese will come in?

I don't know.

Well, do you think you can get the votes?

I don't know.

Supposedly.

You might say that we, just to strengthen your hand, that we made this decision on the basis...

We think we can't keep it up.

Got it.

The, uh... Do we, uh... Oh, that's good.

There's not much more to do.

Do you think that the...

I mean, I'm just going over some questions to both of you.

Sure.

I mean, my name was said.

What name was it?

Well, they said it was a village.

Cancel the trip.

I just said, no.

I said, it's a trip.

I said, no.

Mary, if you can't get in and answer some question, I'm going to send you to the phone.

Okay.

This is as much as the Chinese interest is allowed.

They all think that the Chinese is good.

They are conscious.

They've got to play to that.

They've got to play to their people in the world.

They've got to play to themselves.

Hello?

Yeah, well, from all accounts, you did a tremendous job on that railroad construction.

I want to express my appreciation and tell you that I hope that down the road we can sometimes get some legislation or otherwise so that you don't have to go through this horrible experience over and over and over again.

Right, I know you do.

I hope you do.

That's great.

Isn't he quite a fellow?

He's really a great fellow.

Isn't that great?

Well, you know, you figure his background, you know, he came up in a very humble way, never in any high school perhaps, that's all.

But it shows you what really counts.

I've seen so many graduates of the Harvard School or Stanford School of Business Administration that my God couldn't hold a candle to this man.

No, I know.

And what does that matter?

That's right, that's right.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, I don't know.

Well, there's, he told me, and also the children.

That's true.

Well, I hope that, I hope that he's next to you.

I think maybe he's right there.

Yeah.

Well, I do appreciate it, and we remember we're still with the railroads.

I remember our talk in the White House, and I haven't forgotten.

If you think we can do something, let us know.

Well, Peter's working with the FBI, and Conley's working with the tax front, you know, and maybe we can get some legislation in those areas where administration won't go.

The Grove.

Well... Oh, I missed you.

Well, well, just think what I missed, just what I missed.

Well, that'll be another year.

I hope we're not too old to enjoy it.

Yeah.

I hope we're not too old to enjoy it when we go.

Okay.

Well, with the Chinese, uh, I don't know what we want.

Just by the way, there's some air energy that's almost on our own.

That isn't an offensive statement.

Yeah.

There's some air energy that's almost on our own, and, uh, it's not, uh, it's not really...

Not one issue.

Just like you say about the Russians, we have great history.

We're trying to find out where we can go from here.

Did you notice where Kennedy played up to him?

That was sucking up to D. King.

Huh?

That was just secondary to his own brother who gave him a commitment to them that he would never go off.

Yeah, I think I should be saying that all the time.

That's right.

I guess that's how it is.

Yeah, but he, if you want to get it out.

Kennedy, though, but by Kennedy's point of view, beyond that, he's sucking up to the king.

I can't believe that that bill couldn't present about Jim Mulroney.

I don't think there are any other people on that.

It's a hell of an achievement to change the world, which we've done.

Well, I can tell you that.

The Foreign Relations Committee, they look like a bunch of fucking... Now, on China, there are several months.

Who goes?

That's an agenda.

I know this is the best perspective I can give,

They don't want to do that.

John, you rule it out.

It's fine, right?

No, let's just say it's a small working party, and that will be determined at a later time.

And now, they'll say, how is that determined?

What is the agenda?

How is that going to be determined?

I thought that I would just, I thought that this might say, well, that would be determined through a discussion.

Just say we have a channel of communication, I'm not disclosing.

How does that work?

You can avoid it, but we have a channel of communication.

We have a channel of communication.

We have a channel of communication, I'm not disclosing.

Well, I'm wondering on the other side, would we act on the student's behalf if we have a channel we set up to do that?

Sure.

We have a magic communication.

I obviously won't distort it.

I'll let you say it.

to normalize relations and all other matters of mutual concern.

In a matter of this day and age, China is a great country.

It's been a good power for almost any country, but it affects the peace of the world.

And I decide once again to go to China.

I'm just taking a very broad discussion of all problems in the world, and it's really interesting.

Do you think we should go over and do that?

How do you do that?

I think we might hold them over here.

How do we avoid that?

We've got to get .

So if you win the .

We have to get a majority of the .

of the fact that expulsion is an important question.

Each person will say, well, are you first following or not?

If they're not first following, they'll say it's an important question.

If they are first following, they'll say it isn't.

Actually, some of them are going to cover themselves.

More are going to vote for making it an important question.

They're not going to vote.

They can't say expulsion.

As with some of the people who consider it an important question.

Well, uh, 10-12-40-12.

Oh, I see.

In other words, it's just basic.

That way they can go south.

Well, the reason that somebody asked her...

Oh, yeah.

It's always been a very smart thing to say.

Oh.

Now, let's see.

It doesn't seem to be good.

Yeah, there's a second.

I mean, you see, he's going to testify.

I don't know.

I don't know what he's going to testify.

Free, later on.

I'll be free until 12, and then, if I don't live, I'll be free until 12, and then we'll only take half an hour.

Well, I know first.

Good morning, Mr. Dye.

Good morning.

How are you, sir?

Good.

Sit down.

All right.

Okay.

Well, you've got a bunch of fussing and all.

Oh, this is a good time, Dan.

I told George, I said, I'd like to met AGW, the regional office, and I was going to be fired.

It was the last thing I could do, son of a bitch.

Screw this.

We can't do anything about the judge.

Of course, he played it smart.

The judge tried to get us in, but the ATW guy delivered.

They put a big busting plan in there and gave us a look.

It's going to go out of the book.

It's going out of the trunk, too.

We're going to do one other thing.

We've got a $3.5 program for emergency aid programs.

I am not a personal sponsor.

None of those sponsors are using their education.

It's a, John, it's a miserable thing.

It curbs your temper.

No, that's right.

I'm part of the problem.

I went over there since 8.15 this morning.

And they weren't prepared to go.

If anything, we're just set up.

And I talked to the president of the school board in Illinois.

And they shouldn't come.

Well, he said he'd get on the plane and go back immediately and meet them.

But the other strong man on the board was here in Washington, Frank Ingers.

And frankly, the local school board got this thing set up the hell away they wanted.

And I just think that under all the circumstances of the world, there's plenty of things to be gained by the economy.

And the only problem is how we're going to, well, what's the better?

to be really better organized, what you are going to say, the position you are going to take.

Because it's not just Austin.

They've got a bigger problem than Dallas.

And Dallas is where you come out of the 8,000 vote majority.

Dallas County, that's one county.

So that's where you want to play for the Marvels.

And so, and it just can't get you out.

And they've gone into a press conference, no better organized than they were.

They were going to get asked about Dallas, and Crawford, and Houston.

And frankly, at least,

The ATW man who's going down with them might have been prepared to answer these questions, but the joint wasn't, and they both wanted to come down with you.

And so I think you're going to postpone it, I think, for us in general.

And we've got a few solutions, I don't think.

I frankly don't know.

I haven't gotten into it, have I?

I got into it at 8.15 this morning.

George called me at 7.30 and said, can you come by here?

And I said, yes, I'll be there.

He said, I can't pick up no more.

But I agree with him.

It's a long decision.

It's unbelievable.

The whole mess is unbelievable.

It's a long decision, however.

It does not require a lesson.

It also does not require a balance.

You know what I'm saying?

That's right.

What it does is it appears that there's another meadowland there, ready for discussion.

And so the thing to do is to screw this every time, every way you can.

The Texas court went too far in saying that dissipation, eight or ten times a minute, times a year, yes or no.

You can't say if you can't go that far, you're out of your swamp.

But there must be a way.

Where we don't destroy the school system, but black schools destroy that as well.

How the hell can a black school principal have no idea what he's doing?

No way.

They can't teach people that job.

But they can coach, they can teach drawing, singing.

What the hell else can they do?

I'm basically very tolerant of this little area.

I'm a realist.

I know that we've got years before they're going to be ready.

And that same is true of all of us.

We can give ourselves about that and go, no doubt about it.

It's going to take time.

No, they were walking into a bad situation.

I hope you agree that it's good.

to come, to at least get for us, for me to get the rights out of that, and oppose an amendment that none of these two funds, emergency school aid funds, a billion and a half, you know, that's for, needless for busting.

I see a reason for that is that the matter, the practical matter is somewhat of a show against the funds.

Then, of course, they'll use it for other purposes, and then if they have to bust, they can use their other funds for that.

But I just don't think it's scientific.

I think you run some great risk.

I think your actions will be interpreted for the black community as being

directly against them, but I don't give a damn.

But I think that's a risk you have to take.

Well, I don't give a damn, and another reason is a lot of, frankly, a lot of sensible blacks are against it, too.

Yeah, no question.

The majority of us don't, and I don't know, but in other places, frankly, as far as the black community, you can't generalize about that, so that's that.

The great majority of people this time of year are against busing, period.

That's correct.

In fact, I'm going to force these Democratic candidates

And you imagine how much you'd like to vote on that?

I don't know.

Eddie, let them vote on it.

I agree.

That would be provided just taking a strong position on any bussing and not appropriating any bussing.

Right.

When you do that, then you also have to take a position on what you're going to uphold.

The court, you just hope the courts can find a better way to do it.

But it is tough, isn't it?

You see, you've got a different situation in Corpus where if you don't stand to come out, the great majority all over the place is helping you to break the everything down.

So Woodrow Seals there ruled just the opposite.

He ruled that there is a jury discrimination against the Latin.

So Corpus is looking at crossing 17 to 20,000 students a day.

So, if you have a major problem called Dallas, and I suspect that people don't want to be strong in Dallas, which they didn't want.

Oh, thanks, Dallas is a place where they've got the magnets and plates, you know what I mean?

Or urban communities, high schools, and so forth.

They just want to tolerate it.

And they're very conservative, and they want to be strong.

I don't think that... Because Dallas had a country that I told you about.

And it's a real problem.

It's very high.

As a matter of fact, Jim Collins is the one that put through this investigation.

The Republican Congressman put through the investigation that passed by the House.

I don't even know all about it.

There are 326 of them investigating the use of funds for support buses.

They want to investigate the use of federal funds.

How am I ever being used to support the buses?

But this is his way to counteract it.

Well, we're going to get on the right side of it.

We're going to just do what we can.

We're going to come right here next year.

The political issue is great.

The political issue where our credits are on the liberal democratic side, but they can't get on the right side of it.

But they've got to have a problem with it.

That's right.

They've got to have a problem with it.

I'm going to force them to do it.

And also integrate housing.

The bastards are very clever in slipping up on it.

I'm going to force them to take a position about it.

They aren't going to do anything about it.

That's the reality.

I think that because legislative action is required,

the state of action required that we could be subject to some legitimate criticism for making our proposals that those proposals require action by Congress, drawing them into the Congress debate and the Congress adjournments.

For example, the investment tax bill reveals that only those two require commercial action.

The import tax work and the import tax size tax.

Those three things, of course, which are quite fundamental to the whole project.

I think they're fundamental.

The freeze is not.

And, of course, the freeze is fundamental to the program.

It's not required commercial action.

and neither does the other.

On the other hand, the breeze and the floating and so forth should have congressional consultation.

Now, I think that, as I see it, to get these characters together and to throw it right there, we know that Congress is going to keep going on.

not only has the feeling of panic, but also has the feeling of somewhat irresponsibility.

Here's the way that I think we work out the pattern.

I think we should decide within ourselves.

I think we should then

I don't call him by name, so in fact, I don't know exactly the opposite, particularly Peterson.

He's got to be told to lay off of this and get along with some other son of his.

Volker, you know, you've got to tell him that there's a green heart, is what I say, then, where they won't talk a heart to him at this point in time, but I believe that this is the idea.

Ah, Shelton actually would keep him in our ship, but you and Shelton get the program together.

And then we would plan to have it ready the day Congress returns, which would be about the 8th.

It's the day after.

Labor Day is the 6th.

Labor Day is the 7th.

I'd be fine.

We would be ready then.

That's about right.

We'd throw the whole thing right out.

Now, it seems to me that that is the feeling of action.

There'll be some stirring on the clock as we're working around and calling for various hundreds of people

But it will allow us to really get our guts in the road.

For example, I once would like to have George, and he can do this, and I'm going to lay off and give him a, put him on hair loss or on trails, and just tell him that I'm wanting her to get us up in the hills.

and so forth and 72 is all about.

But to give us, not only, we've got to get bigger with regard to cutting, but 10% of travelers now are postponing the other next, the actual service.

Let me tell you what, we can throw it in.

There are two more Apollo shots scheduled.

Those two Apollo shots, actually, are not really needed.

I mean, mine, that is.

I mean, one up there, and three up there, and so forth.

Each nine.

We could very well dispense with those two shots.

I mean, one controls something, and the other, how does that sound?

I don't think that's bad.

It does show at least that we're trying to do something better.

You know, the polls show at the present time that Donald is saying that education is full, that 70% of the people say we should leave them enough to say, you know, should they not hire me?

I haven't done very good.

I believe in all this, and I still want to have a man's base for Mars and all that.

But I think there's a way, there's a time and a place for everything.

There are plenty of times you say, oh, I suppose we're not going to do it.

but we didn't want to throw that in at this point.

But what I'm getting at is that's an indication of other things that might come up for us.

And I wonder why the Rehabilitation Program, now in the field of controls, seems to me

Charles has studied this thing a great deal with their people and all of them, and your people as well.

I'm not the director now, but what are you trying to do?

I'm the director of capital control.

Capital control.

Now, I think that if you were going to train your government, you ought to come up with a program.

And let's really tell those people that that's another hell of an area to do business in.

I agree.

As a matter of fact, it's necessary.

As long as we have these, as long as the dollar isn't close, we've got to keep them from going out.

Or if you agree, I don't know.

I agree with that.

I think we're part of a movement.

Some don't believe we should, but I... Well, we don't.

Don't do it.

We shouldn't.

Don't we really need a little time to see whether we shouldn't do it?

Yes.

I'd like to have about that program that's really not certain.

We're not writing about any of that.

We'll be very interested in taking the whole thing.

A new economic policy.

Well, on the capital controls, those who are opposed to the rule of capital control...

are against it largely because they say it.

They don't know what this program is, but they say that in light of the inflation, in the light of the export of capital from this country, that if you remove your capital controls, it's in effect a direct slap in the face of your trading makers around the world because it may be easier for dollars to go out.

What they don't want are more dollars.

But the point is that how do you take a completely different approach?

You're saying, in fact, we're willing to float if you all don't like our dollars, but that's fine.

We'll change the exchange rates.

You're in a new ballgame.

If there was ever a time when we would have gotten close, it's now.

But we'll pursue that.

I understand.

Let me say, on capital control, I'm no expert on this, but if you take a hard look, I'll see whether it should be done.

And don't let the documentary people, if we're not working on that, I'm sure they wouldn't see that George hates his intro on that.

He feels the documentary should be removed.

I'll look at it from the standpoint of the credit and the tax that we collect and the Commerce Department and what they do and the Fed and what they do, but it's not going out any way.

Now, it occurs to me, too, in the trade area,

It might be that you could come up with a little bit more package in terms of, I don't know, maybe XM Bank.

I guess we're doing as much as we can.

I don't know what that's going to be for anyway.

Well, there's the RFP problem.

I'm just saying, maybe there's some more for XM Bank.

Maybe there's, maybe...

You know, Peter should have done a lot of things on this deal.

He may have a few little tidbits that we could throw into that thing.

I don't know how we're going to increase American creative law.

I don't know.

You see what I mean?

Now, the final point, however, perhaps the most important one, is that...

I haven't agreed.

There, John, the more I think about it, I think about the creation.

I just don't have any doubt.

I have no confidence.

They say, well, Lincoln is a legal man.

Well, this last year, this last year.

I mean, the way he's writing is unbelievable.

I know that.

I was in OPA.

It's a horrible thing.

I'm in creation.

You've got to, at least you have a bureaucracy to get them.

And you've got some people who know how to do that.

And I'm inclined to just set it up over there and actually do it now.

You see, I haven't seen any people in the White House who serve in a building bureaucracy.

The way I understand what you did is that you were trying to put the way that you could have everybody do a little bit extra for their president.

It's a building of a new bureaucracy.

It's a building of a new bureaucracy that I don't think has a bad connotation.

Just say we're part of the country.

How does that sound to you?

Well, I think we're probably the most, outside of the OEP, theoretically, we're the most logical ones to do it.

As I told you, I don't want to.

What the hell are we going to do?

We could do it probably better than anybody else, with fewer restraints on us, you see, because we have no constituency.

But let us really come down to a point where the big guys are concerned about that sort of thing.

You can get them on the phone and talk to them and say, I'm going to look at that.

Let me come to a point.

Let us approach it from a really long perspective.

What does it do to save farmers?

Their prices are so high.

I mean, does it mean that the prices have a hell of a freeze?

the price of lettuce can't go up to 25 cents a head, or like it's 50 cents a head now.

It has to stay where it is.

Of course, that's a, I guess, there's where George Schultz's idea of the 60-pick freeze is that, I mean, in other words, the shorter the freeze, then just about the time everybody got it again, it begins to think that the goddamn thing is a mess, you take it off.

On the other hand, if it's too short,

Well, anyway, I think that we've got to think about how long this thing should be.

Have you done any more thinking about whether to consider 120?

I like to deal with 120 in a way, because it pushes us through January and past Christmas, which I think would be damn good.

The only thing about the short period that worries me a little bit, I'm afraid, is the average person.

Not the everybody.

Every writer or columnist.

Well, hey, all this 60 days is not going to be time for anyone.

This is just a soft cover.

Well, now, what is your reaction?

Well, you've got to have them.

You know, if there's a crisis of some kind that I can't imagine what it would be, yes, there would be special authority for exceptions.

All right.

No question about it.

And I would go say that I never, I was in a ration.

We had perceptions by the thousands.

And you have this thing.

I'm afraid you're not going to understand me.

I just don't think we'll go into it.

I didn't bring it to you.

But take the letters, take on case letters.

That's the question.

Take all of them, for example.

That's, you know, the big box, whatever you call it.

My guess is that we probably have enough going to show where we can use storage

maintain the price, and still maintain an average supply for a four-month period.

That's my guess, but I don't know.

I have talked to agriculture finance and that.

Medication for hogs and hens, it wouldn't go up.

If they're bringing 19 cents now, they'd bring 19 cents.

That's all there is.

But there's a price on every commodity every day.

It's going to be tough to enforce it in some cases.

That's correct, and of course that's where we'll behave.

I'm checking the size of the package and seeing what the purpose of that is.

It was an awful thing.

That's why we can't have her being pregnant.

And this may cure it.

This is why I said that if we keep this thing on the floor box, we're going to die.

and just say, you know, we've got an exception, you know, and I don't want to say, you know, I don't want to say, you know, I don't want to say, you know,

What I meant is people, basically, because they are sinners, they believe that Christ has come to them, not necessarily one of them.

And the other side of that is, why do you take them off?

For example, an O.B.H.

in Waukesha, for example,

I mean, that's people are going to get delighted so well.

If we take it off, that's a...

Now, these are the impoverished.

That's right.

No, I don't think so.

But, uh, that is a very good thing.

We've got, one of the things we've got to remember, I think, in your point is that you don't know who this really is anyway.

The average person who rescues all that fat, they're, they're, their prices, you know, they have a lot of them.

But it's business, this is the business we're looking for.

And this may, thereby, inspire business.

But I see what it does to wages.

If wages are curious, there will be no wage increase in trade.

And right after, the business may jump.

This is why, frankly, we need to do a lot more things like that.

If I look around, I don't have to think about it this morning.

I thought about it in terms of the

But for every individual, this may not be an all-inclusive, but I'd rather turn to the guidelines.

We've got lifting.

But in so doing, I would agree with it.

I would agree with it.

That's not the guidelines.

I don't expect either prices or wages to decrease over 4% during this year.

That's the guidelines.

And we're going to do everything in our power.

We're going to hold responsible the industry of the union that breaks that line.

And if they do, you're still free.

I'm not at all sure the smart thing that gets out of you.

I'm not sure the smart thing wouldn't be to go 60 days before and throw it back home.

Have it on the government election.

We can do that.

Sure.

If they like it, what then?

You let it out and show what happens.

Now, the truth of the matter is that

I'm afraid we're headed into a period of a lot more control now.

I would like to say that that's true because of the international competition.

There's certainly going to be a whole lot more government under management and subsidy as to the economy.

Wherever we have international competition, that's all there is to it.

All this nonsense about the antitrust laws have got to be modified or winged and we've got to have subsidy for international, for those areas where we've got to play.

We've got to have non-tariff barriers to fight the other countries like the NIRs.

I know all that.

And I really think this whole thing ought to be postured.

One thing that the lay will give us time to do is to posture this whole approach in terms of what you're looking for in the decade of the Senate.

And during this next, during this decade, during the next four years, we'll celebrate the 200th anniversary.

And what you're trying to do, what you're, you're trying here to deal with fundamentalist structure.

of the domestic economy and our international relations to provide a basis for an increased, renewed vitality, renewed dedication, that the decade of the 70s is going to be a decade of production, of vigor, of growth, of expansion.

for new products, new commodities, and the greater utilization of American talent to reach the American region during this 200th anniversary.

So if you're taking these steps now, you should be ready.

So we can get ready not for next year, but for the entire decade or so.

Also, in other words, to get America healthy.

That's correct.

For the big race.

We're living in a market-heavy world.

You know, that's the name I use, of course, in our own political project in Kansas City.

The world's changed since World War II.

We don't have five great economic superpowers.

China's not yet one, but we have one.

And the very fact that we've used the military

which had to do with both China and Russia enormously increasing the economic variety, and the fact that Europe, for example, has succeeded in the market by a great deal, but there have been increases in the amount of competition and the amount of food we can have.

Now, this is not necessarily a reason for us all to say, oh, Christ, this is a mistake.

It isn't.

That's the world.

We're in a race now, and by God, we're not alone anymore.

We're not way out front.

And in order to stay ahead, we've got to move ahead.

And we've got to be healthy and strong and vigorous

The others take the communists, basically.

Well, you take the Koreans, and let's forget the, forget Europe.

But take the Soviet Union, take China, take Japan.

Those countries still have a sense of mission.

They still have a sense of sacrifice.

They still have a sense of destiny.

and they're going to beat our goddamn brains off unless we get a little sense of mission and that's the whole idea that this thing or this is the thing that are already we've got peters unfortunately and uh talking along this line he's thinking very very good so what i come down i say

I must say, I'm greatly tempted to do it now.

I like to make plays and play when I'm unexpected.

On the other hand, I feel this is such an important revolutionary change.

We should do it in a different way.

I also come to another point.

I do not think that it is your case, your grace being, and this is very important to you.

I know you're not worried about the fact that they'll need to say, well, what the hell is he saying then?

But I think that it's very, I think it is important that the Secretary of the Federation, and the Chief Economic Officer of the Federation, be one that cannot be subject to the attack of, say, one thing one day, and then the next week, five weeks, four weeks, and then he just changes his mind.

See what I mean?

It sounds as if it's too...

I take responsibility for it.

I put the damn thing down.

But inevitably they know that this is where it comes from.

And it gives them also the feeling that, well, what the hell is the history?

Now the other thing, if you put just a month in between, after September, after all, the summers have, we made this, and actually we've taken that re-evaluation, we come back, but wham, we hit the damn thing on the numbers.

I don't know.

My God, we've got to be able to trust these people.

The only problem we have is a leak.

And I don't think we're going to have a leak.

Now, so I have no question, I have no argument about this.

September is better for all the reasons you pointed out.

Plus, I would be more comfortable if, frankly, if we have to go this week,

I personally think that we have not adequately analyzed all of the potential angles of this thing, or even, I think we're in fact, portion of the decision a little bit.

And we don't, and we may not have, and we may not have enough to drive in terms of the budget things we can do to control this thing.

We actually have a problem, because if we do this right, we need to, we need to orchestrate this thing, we need to have some magnificent charts

which we can do now in the next 30 days without any relation to the moves that you're going to make.

We certainly need to look at the way that you're at price for music and what follows it.

We need to look at the capital controls, which we really haven't analyzed.

We need to have this much time to write a speech.

Now, the idea, if you could just hear what all your other problems have said, which are 48 hours, and I have a right of speech in this tonight.

It would be, it would be all right if Michael would come to Quinkerson, if he could come back to put the goddamn fire out.

And I think you're right.

Hitting the Congress, if only just to hit the Congress as they go home, you'd have to alibi for it.

You'd have to say, I'm proposing this note so that you can talk to your people as you go home.

Now, that's the only basis you can do it.

Otherwise, they would think it was a damn smart political trick or trap or something like that.

And that's the only basis on which you can get away from that.

Now, when they come back,

they would have been at home.

I think you're going to get a lot more discussions.

Javits is a Board of Professors this morning.

He and some other moderate Republicans and Republicans are out here boosting income policy next week.

Well, that's fine.

He's going to run into some of that.

Maybe the way to get at that is to indicate to the Javits that we welcome their

They're all going to have different ideas.

Frankly, I think it's good to let it build.

You can stand it.

That's all.

I know you can.

That's a pretty bad month of August.

The month of August, John.

Let me tell you, it's the month of March before the election.

I remember John, for Christ's sake, I agree.

Doesn't matter to me.

I went to the Republican Convention in Philadelphia, and we were already figuring what the hell this was going to appoint the Supreme Court.

He was dead.

And so if the economy came up about two or three points and it was in, that was why it went ahead.

So we all know that this situation could change.

Nobody should get, there's too much of a tendency for everybody to be affected by the incident.

There's no question of them doing those things.

I heard it all.

My first time going down on the T-Dyke with the M-40, the T-Dyke with the Pops.

You realize that we had to balance our carries until they would be 100 feet.

Now they're 12.

The reason is we kicked the shit out of them.

And if I said that we took a lot of heat, it was tough.

It was tough, some of the best.

But the thing is, we must never, we must never be, we must never allow that.

But all things are in line.

There's no leadership in this and that.

All right, then get them up.

We should worry unless we're ready to come up with the presidency.

We can always come back and get them right between the eyes.

And then they forget within a moment what happened to them.

I fail to squeal around for a month, but in the month of August, there ain't a hell of a lot of people listening, John.

You know, it's a month, I think, more than any month of the year when people don't listen.

We don't go off like the Europeans.

The average American in August tries to do baseball and fishing and...

Well, we try to get the school board and the hospital to respond.

And nobody does.

The leaders are particularly wrong.

The leaders are the ones that we've got to reach.

I don't think that's in the problem.

And besides that, when you come in September for this plan, there's not an economist, there's not a writer, there's not anybody in their right mind that doesn't think that you're going to work on this.

Now, to back on this personal point, which may not...

Please, we have a reason.

But a finance minister or a secretary of treasury has to be inscrutable at any time in dealing with the international market.

Because he's got to deny it until the last minute.

You're not going to be back.

You're not going to allow it to go to its own source.

But when this action is taken, what the columnists are going to relate back to is my speech today.

That's going to be the time.

Not what I said here about the food for the one unit.

It's about the dollar sum.

Yeah.

And about the fact that we're going to change and we've got to have health.

We've got to change our trade agreements.

We can't keep on.

Oh, yeah.

Basically the one unit.

We're going to be some tough traders.

That's correct.

And we've got to change.

Things are going to have to change.

We've got to have that.

That's what we're going to do.

That's just what we're going to do.

You're prepared to wait for it.

And we have also indicated this.

You know, I may see the press in front of me tomorrow.

I'm going to do it.

I don't want to give them an indication of my lack of confidence in myself.

I've been sent over to your shop and there's six or seven points that you've made on that program.

There are some positive things.

There's some positive things.

There is.

You know, construction is better.

Corporate profits.

Right.

Personal income.

And the fact that the rate of inflation is less, the GDP deflator is less, et cetera.

So we are making progress.

And you're saying that.

I don't think.

I think you're being very, very funny.

Very humble.

And you're saying, we don't have any major problems now.

I can't.

We're not taking a decision.

Well, there are.

There are.

I would just say, I think that they can show them that.

I doubt that they will.

They don't know about that.

I don't think they will, but if they do, just say, well, things are very quiet in the national field.

We're looking, but we're always watching.

I've got a data report on this from the Secretary of the Treasury.

We hope for very technically doable back-and-forth Secretary of the Treasury speech in Munich that represents my name, but I don't know about the Secretary of the Treasury speech.

I think that's an indicator.

I'll go back to your beginning speech.

I don't think you want to do anything else.

If they brought you out anymore, you want to just say, well, we're looking forward to these here the last of September.

We'll have the batteries in the front of the unit.

We hope to provide a high degree of leadership that will enhance the stabilization of the world economy.

Now, I've got another thought.

Now this is really a...

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

With regard...

I want to say a word about Bill.

Why can I not say that I'm a trading partner?

The tax amount is more or less.

Should we say that or should we not?

I don't know, but it should be more or less.

Now, if you get that, I didn't get the whole purpose, but you did tell me that you didn't get into that piece when they shot the ticket.

Now I'm not sure.

Why couldn't I say that?

Now, the other thing is, I'm thinking this.

I wonder if you could call the lines of only just a few people down there and say, look, President has asked me to make some recommendations on the tax thing for the next one year.

And I'd be very much welcome to your views.

Now, here's the point.

If you ask me to predict the next part of the project, it gets in the field that we're building the project.

And then, of course, on the side of the project, does that make any sense?

Or do you think we shouldn't do that?

I don't know.

Maybe that's just what it is.

I'll say, I think I will say, that I thought the Secretary of the Treasury was conducting that.

I think he was considering a number of tax reforms for fiscal year 73.

I think it just doesn't do it.

I would, and I just say that, and I feel proud to just say it now.

Obviously, we're not going to overlook any step or any action that we think is necessary to discuss it.

I think that all of this might

made that statement.

That's right.

What have they asked about pollution pricing rules?

I say, well, that's a separate problem.

I am against permitting pollution pricing rules.

It's a perky, non-straightjacket, despite having the same problem.

As far as other entities are concerned, we have already used them.

I mean, we have been struggling working with the construction trades, for example, getting theirs down.

I met with the steel people.

I told the oil people.

I reprimanded them and they raised their prices.

We issued a statement here just the other day regretting the rise in the steel prices.

We've certainly expressed what this administration has with respect to interest rates.

We've tried to say personally and publicly that we think that very reasonable interest rates are absolutely essential

continuing expansion of this country, continuation of the home building program.

We've done a lot of that.

And we're going to continue to do whatever we think we can do and be effective in doing without putting the old economy to the straightjacket.

What came out of Europe as the face of the nation?

The only way they got into it, I just simply said that we certainly would have looked at it later.

We talked about it.

You talked about it greatly in the last couple of days.

We did a couple of weeks ago at Camp David, the president always considered every day what's happening, every week, analyzing.

And I said, you can be sure that

that a president who took bold and courageous action, which he did in China, is going to be equally bold on the domestic front.

You can't assume that there's anything that's not going to be considered.

We can say that.

First, don't say, well, we're not.

We're not.

On the other hand, in terms of temporary action, we have taken some action, and we of course will consider other actions if it is necessary.

Question on Mills.

I heard that Mills' administration was sharing the credit or not, if you want to share the credit.

Anyway, whatever he said, let me say.

Don't you feel, maybe, that it was Willard?

Actually, I'd say a little bit, Mr. President.

I'm sorry the chairman feels that way.

We are grateful.

He can give us on this or any other problem.

I want him to have credit.

Let me ask you this.

I don't want him at this point in his life.

If you would call me, would you do that, sir?

You say we were having a president person, you know, at this point in time.

And he was quite distressed about all this hanging around.

So he wanted you personally to know that as far as revenue sharing is concerned, as far as tax policy is concerned, as far as trade policy is concerned, that we don't have any private offices.

We just want to get it done and we'd like to share it.

I'd like you to say it.

And you can tell me if you're overwhelmed and you've got any thoughts on this.

There's taxing and so forth that he wants.

He wants to get passed along here.

The President hasn't got any money.

But in fact, this President isn't trying to.

We're not trying to knock you down.

When you do that, he says, you know, he can't control all the White House people.

You know how those White House people are.

How do you think of this?

I think that's happening.

Now, there's another reason.

This is exactly what you said.

And so it's a problem.

Because many of us, therefore, I think that it's just as strong for us to do it.

And also, we've got to remember that we're going to be here for a long time, and he's going to be around.

Albert is not well.

No, he is not well.

I've seen him, and I've just gone on and on about that.

And it seems to me, John, that the office for the Democrats has got to be in Albert's presence.

I think that's what we'll do.

I guess we'll recall that position.

He's the Speaker.

He's President.

Right, he's President.

He's the Speaker, sure.

Which is very smart, in other words, you've got to be an actual figure before you can be a congressional figure.

The last thing is, regarding our character,

I'm having lunch with him today at 1 o'clock.

It's our weekly meeting at 1 o'clock.

and he's going to need to go to the blue collar and he's going to need to go to the blue collar and he's going to need to go

who would be right in the face of that and ask for an increase.

There are many things that I think he has to do.

He also has to do with Schultz, and it would affect Schultz, and I'm here for argument, but you can say that as far as the president is concerned, that he, I don't want to be too soft, as far as he's concerned, but I don't want him to get stirred up about a little issue in Washington that he feels that there's a long-term problem.

There's a shark in there.

A shark in general, we just can't do it.

I mean, I think that's worth raising because why let him worry about that?

No, it's worth raising.

He did before, huh?

Well, let me just say that that's all we're talking about.

I think that nobody, and we are asking nobody, he's never discussed it.

I'm sure that he approves of this, that this was done for us to raise him to that or anybody else who doesn't like it.

Now, on the other side of the thing,

I want to avoid seeing this week

And I think we've got to consider whether we should have a property that should be held on next week.

I don't find that it's best not to, but we didn't cancel the trial.

I'd say, you know, just what are your views?

don't get into the position of making computers, if you are, if you have, if you are a buyer of one of those, certainly have some confidence in the president.

I think that's the whole point.

I think we've told them that before.

Because, uh, we've, uh, we've, uh, we've had, uh, we've made a lot of policy changes.

It may surprise you some time.

But you can't do it by getting out and fighting the public.

The thing Artie's got to realize is that you never get a policy through by backing the other fellow up on the wall.

So if he's got a choice, then I'd like to stay at home.

And that's what he's doing.

And they are a bit smarter than that.

I don't know what else to say now about them.

And then say that if he brings up the idea of competing with me, it's a good idea.

But right now, there's pretty much a lot of other people trying to get the Congress out of here and so forth and so on.

And you can have it.

Fair enough.

But you don't get to compete with me.

I don't think, unless you think otherwise, I don't think you can compete with me.

So I don't think the Clark meeting is useful.

We spoke a little bit this week.

I don't think the Clark meeting is useful.

Theoretically, that's out of the ballpark.

And so what about pure ambition?

And Arndt has actually got this finance committee who finances studies everybody in the world.

And there's nothing on the president's desk.

I mean, if you'd be the first to know, it's always going to be Frank.

Nothing on our desk, you know.

But there's a portion of me that studies Arndt.

And I say, Arndt, what do you think?

And he says, I think at one point, he loved Arndt.

He said,

Not independence, but more control.

Depends on where you're in or out, John.

Oh, of course it does.

Art is now in.

Sure, he wants to be independent.

But I wouldn't, I don't think we are letting him completely on the court.

No, I don't think he is.

No, I won't let him on.

I never won't let him on.

Not as long as you're at office, John.

He's got to know that he might want it.

Of course, he's not going to change.

The older he gets, the more he's set in his way.

Sure, the more he's set in his way, the more pain he's going to get and so forth.

So you can't ever let him up.

It's a question of next week or next month.

It's the next five years you can't let him up.

And he asked about the President.

Well, the President is not a man who ever holds any grudges.

My God, I'm even fighting with Harold Swanson or something.

But my wife, on the other hand, she said, frankly, he's been disappointed because he thought he had an understanding that you would bend over backward not to appear to be criticizing him.

which has been broadly so triggered, and that's a huge danger of position.

Is that the one you're taking?

I don't think so.

I think I'd keep it to myself.

I said to Arthur, and you might even say, Arthur, if it ever occurred to you, one thing that would be very helpful, and it might really make news, if you kind of said something affirmative about the President on his leadership in the world,

education bills, pay grade bills.

He knows god damn well that we're fighting this matter very well.

And I don't recall that he has said one thing.

He's never said an affirmative thing.

And for example, arguments, he's got a good amount of arguments and details.

So if he were good this month, he might say that this is not right.

They'd probably be up until about the last month, last month.

But he did say that he would say something good.

Okay, all right.

Now with regard to our clients, and let's not have anyone tell us the money.

And they just say, no.

But we just, we not only cool everybody off, but you take the responsibility.

You tell them.

What about you?

Well, I tell people you tell them.

Why don't you tell me?

I'll tell Pete.

How far will you tell me?

I'll just tell Pete.

He's got a good line in this thing that I'll have practice.

I'm ready to go.

Let's go push this.

That's a question of words.

I think he is like we're trying to crowd him.

And he said that he

He's got it all under consideration.

He wants to think about this.

But right now, he doesn't want any talk on or off the record, whatever, about it during the month of August.

Tell McCracken no talk on or off the record during the month of August.

President, this is a good time to think about it in California for a couple weeks.

And right now, he feels that we should, that the Congress is just ready to leave.

We shouldn't do anything now.

I said, well, we can do something better.

We're just not going to do anything now.

But the main thing, month of August, we should have a moratorium on total reporting, moratorium on any speculation.

Just try to say, study everything.

Don't say anything.

Now, in regard to the

I'll talk to Shultz and I'll mention it.

If he can tell us when he's on the scene, when he's on the scene, and if I can work with him.

I'll mention it to him when I go in the morning.

Then, in terms of your plans, you will be yawning on this detention strike.

Partly.

Mostly the last of the first one.

About the middle.

We'll stay through to your interim, and the NSCD will be on the 12th, and probably on the 13th, which would be about time.

We've got a three-minute detention strike.

We've got a six-minute job.

You know, I'm not going to push you out on it.

I know I'm nervous.

Well, the dinner was really great.

The dinner was really great.

Then there'd be no business from then on.

Then you'd be in Texas.

Yes.

But I was thinking that if I get through at the end of my stay in California, I wouldn't try to take off the leash.

They say two weeks, but they've already cut it down to two weeks.

But I may try to take off a total week without any stay for the time.

Which I probably should, but I can't be sure.

And I can't be sure.

But I thought that perhaps you and I ought to get together again.

But I think the best place to get together is right, I'll be back here.

I'll be back here for a later date.

My view is that we ought to get together before that.

We've got to get together a week before that, right?

where I'll be at that time you should get together say sometime around 30th of August having in mind the fact that we must be ready for the 6th of August and the 8th of August or the 1st of September because I think it's just as well they have no more than that in the meantime I wonder if

You go forward and vet this out every way you can on their side.

I'll have Shelts go forward, the budget side, and just explore the damage on the budget side.

And then we'll get the package out and test on it.

I think there's a great community setting on here.

Yes, I agree.

They'll be back with it, hearing all the mentions and all the rest.

They'll be ready for dropping everything in.

Land, just like that.

Mr. President, I agree with that.

You see, this will be September.

Then as soon as we agree, as soon as you go to the whole month, they will go to the whole month.

That'll put you in January.

Right.

1st of January.

Then you immediately follow that.

with your State of the Union message in January.

State of the Union and tax reform.

Well that includes tax reform.

That's the centerpiece of it.

In other words, tax reforms produce something common.

Right.

So this keeps them, if the deal wouldn't go over the back of that tax, graduation, property, some of these other things, this keeps them off dollars.

My God, in the calendar trip, whatever it is, what you need in the present time.

And the main thing that we do sometimes is actually punch one down the wall.

We will have an announcement on Vietnam, assuming the world of Paris will be possible.

It's real, it's a real possibility.

It's like one of the citizens said, half, 50% possible, but there is a not possible.

So it depends on what happens on the other hand.

What I'd like to do is to start getting out into the business arena.

the idea that you, in the creation, are actively looking into the whole problem, technically.

Can you do that?

Sure.

Alright, get that out there.

I'll say it if they ask me, come on.

But I want you to get that out there.

And another thing that I can say is that you might ask, another very effective way to do it, is you might ask, maybe, call on the phone,

40 or 50 top business students should do at the company.

You say, the president was asking for tax reform on the business side.