Nixon, Connally & Shultz on Busing and Wage-price freeze

2:17:11Well, if you're going to... Hi, Henry.
2:17:16We've got a few minutes to go over some of this question.
2:18:10Mr. Viacony of the Senate Career Board, please.
2:19:35Hello?
2:19:37Yeah.
2:19:37Hello?
2:19:39Yeah.
2:20:37But what about the plan?
2:20:39More important, what is the, what about this idea that it's not possible with coming up with two things, one, and just directing it?
2:20:54I wanted some statement put out today that the HEW people in our regional office are being disciplined and removed.
2:21:01A second statement put out that the President personally totally disapproved of the HEW plan.
2:21:09Is that correct?
2:21:12That's the way I feel about it.
2:21:12Now, the ATW plant, I've got information that you're not aware of.
2:21:15Those people down there deliberately screwed us on this.
2:21:18I mean, the ATW is a regional office, George.
2:21:22Now, we're not going to allow this, so we'll start with that proposition.
2:21:26Now, what else do you have?
2:21:54No, it must not do that.
2:21:55It must say, the President disapproves of the ATW plan.
2:21:59Those precise words, if I have to, I'll write it on the long hand.
2:22:03Is that clear?
2:22:04I disapprove of the ATW plan.
2:22:07We disapprove of the ATW plan.
2:22:11We not only do not approve it, we disapprove it.
2:22:14And also, I want this statement put out on here that the regional office in, and I have to work it out one way or another, in Austin,
2:22:22that those people are being dismissed.
2:22:24They're going to be removed or whatever they know that needs to be done.
2:22:27Something has got to get out with regard to that because I cannot allow this kind of activity to be done.
2:22:33We can't even butt the judge, but we sure as hell can do something about the regional office director and all sorts of things.
2:22:42All right.
2:22:43What else did you want to say?
2:22:48Yeah.
2:22:52without the plan, without Bucky.
2:24:14Well, I didn't tell you I thought I was not to go down there.
2:24:16Well, but they're not there, George.
2:24:23They're, yeah.
2:24:24Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:24:27Yeah, all right.
2:24:30I agree, I agree.
2:24:31Well, I'm getting out a statement to the effect that none of them, that I am personally proposing an amendment for providing that none of the billion and a half will go for busing.
2:24:40And so we'll handle that.
2:24:42And actually, if it comes down here with busing, then I'm going to leave you with it.
2:24:49So I've got a very strong position there.
2:24:55So we'll get on the right side of that.
2:24:57If I get so strong, I'm going to crack her on it for sure.
2:25:00And everybody else can do it for her, but I'm going to fight for the court every way, following her, and we can't just keep this goddamn thing from going on.
2:25:09All right, cancel your trip, but work out and be sure at least this thing is safe.
2:25:13I will ride over here tonight.
2:25:33I talked to George and they got a pair.
2:25:35It's all fouled up and they can't find anybody.
2:25:37Now look, I told him and he didn't seem to get the point.
2:25:40He was surprised when he learned that I personally am opposed to the event, that there be no busing at 100 degrees and a half.
2:25:48I also went further and I'm coming to now.
2:25:51If that bill comes down here with busing in it, I'm going to veto it.
2:25:55Now, let's get, let's get some people, let's get some discipline in this goddamn shop.
2:26:00He also said that when I, he was surprised, he didn't know about, apparently, about those AGW people in the regional office.
2:26:07The part of the conspiracy, and I said, George, they are, I believe, disciplined, and if you doubt, there's fake history.
2:26:15Now, John, you've got to get a hold of George and so forth, and shake him up a little bit, and then, or do something, and then take over, or either do that, or I've got to drop everything I do, and I'm coming to do everything.
2:26:24I don't want to get in this goddamn thing.
2:26:27Now, what can we do?
2:26:27Can we, can we, first, go ahead, tell me what's your plan?
2:26:30Because George had no idea about all this.
2:26:32I understand.
2:26:54You're going to have a press conference?
2:26:57Oh, about two in the morning.
2:27:00All right, fine.
2:27:00Well, I told them not to bother.
2:27:01I told them not to bother.
2:27:05Yeah, fine, swell.
2:27:06Right, right, right.
2:27:07Let me say this.
2:27:08Don't bother, don't bother.
2:27:10The Austin trip should be off in two, three.
2:27:13They're not ready to go.
2:27:13They don't understand it.
2:27:15But as soon as you finish your press conference, good luck on it, then...
2:27:21You can come up on a non-action course if the railroad strikes hard.
2:27:26Don't, please, God, now, don't hit family assistance.
2:27:30You know, stay the hell off of family assistance.
2:27:33Revenue sharing, yeah.
2:27:37Yeah.
2:27:39Yeah.
2:27:39Yeah.
2:27:41And also say this, that we are also shocked to learn that there is also talk of a Congress adjournment in October.
2:27:49And you're to say that the President, if that happens, that the President believes it will happen in a special session.
2:27:57Okay.
2:27:57But then I will come on mute.
2:27:59You've got to hold a show and say, God damn, that's even.
2:28:02Why didn't he know about the regional office thing?
2:28:04Or doesn't he?
2:28:05He doesn't, apparently.
2:28:13I'll tell you, Henry, that you, Larry, cannot trust some goddamn liberals.
2:28:20Sons of bitches, you know, they think they can work around so-and-so.
2:28:25They've got a right to their points of view.
2:28:28Some things, by God, have got to follow.
2:28:31Well, they've beaten the intellectual dominance for so long that they've just handed it back.
2:28:47Just stand it in for me.
2:28:52Let me go over the things that I need to discuss.
2:28:58There's only about two to three or four questions.
2:29:19probably about China, but I think that the answers there are sort of one.
2:29:27On the event, I'm asked by Secretary of State Sebelin, and the statement was, I was apparently working on this, and it represents my family.
2:29:48How will it be delayed if those Chinese will come in?
2:29:53I don't know.
2:29:56Well, do you think you can get the votes?
2:30:01Supposedly.
2:30:01Supposedly.
2:30:03You might say that we, just to strengthen your hand, that we made this decision on the basis...
2:30:12We think we can't keep it up.
2:30:15Got it.
2:30:40The, uh... Do we, uh... Oh, that's good.
2:30:41There's not much more to do.
2:30:43Do you think that the...
2:31:01I mean, I'm just going over some questions to both of you.
2:31:05Sure.
2:31:05I mean, my name was said.
2:31:06What name was it?
2:31:07Well, they said it was a village.
2:31:09Cancel the trip.
2:31:10Cancel the trip.
2:31:11I just said, no.
2:31:12I said, it's a trip.
2:31:13I said, no.
2:31:13I said, no.
2:31:14I said, no.
2:31:14I said, no.
2:31:15I said, no.
2:31:15I said, no.
2:31:16I said, no.
2:31:17I said, no.
2:31:34Mary, if you can't get in and answer some question, I'm going to send you to the phone.
2:31:38Okay.
2:31:39This is as much as the Chinese interest is allowed.
2:31:42They all think that the Chinese is good.
2:32:03They are conscious.
2:32:04They've got to play to that.
2:32:07They've got to play to their people in the world.
2:32:10They've got to play to themselves.
2:32:36Hello?
2:32:39Hello?
2:32:43Hello?
2:32:44Hello?
2:32:44Yeah, well, from all accounts, you did a tremendous job on that railroad construction.
2:32:48I want to express my appreciation and tell you that I hope that down the road we can sometimes get some legislation or otherwise so that you don't have to go through this horrible experience over and over and over again.
2:33:09Right, I know you do.
2:33:15I hope you do.
2:33:17That's great.
2:33:18Isn't he quite a fellow?
2:33:20He's really a great fellow.
2:33:36Isn't that great?
2:33:37Well, you know, you figure his background, you know, he came up in a very humble way, never in any high school perhaps, that's all.
2:33:49But it shows you what really counts.
2:33:50I've seen so many graduates of the Harvard School or Stanford School of Business Administration that my God couldn't hold a candle to this man.
2:34:05No, I know.
2:34:06And what does that matter?
2:34:07That's right, that's right.
2:34:14Yeah.
2:34:15Yeah, well, I don't know.
2:34:19Well, there's, he told me, and also the children.
2:34:24That's true.
2:34:25Well, I hope that, I hope that he's next to you.
2:34:28I think maybe he's right there.
2:34:30Yeah.
2:34:37Well, I do appreciate it, and we remember we're still with the railroads.
2:34:53I remember our talk in the White House, and I haven't forgotten.
2:34:59If you think we can do something, let us know.
2:35:07Well, Peter's working with the FBI, and Conley's working with the tax front, you know, and maybe we can get some legislation in those areas where administration won't go.
2:35:22The Grove.
2:35:28Well... Oh, I missed you.
2:35:29Well, well, just think what I missed, just what I missed.
2:35:32Well, that'll be another year.
2:35:34I hope we're not too old to enjoy it.
2:35:36Yeah.
2:35:36I hope we're not too old to enjoy it when we go.
2:35:38Okay.
2:35:39Well, with the Chinese, uh, I don't know what we want.
2:35:42Just by the way, there's some air energy that's almost on our own.
2:35:47That isn't an offensive statement.
2:35:51Yeah.
2:35:53There's some air energy that's almost on our own, and, uh, it's not, uh, it's not really...
2:36:05Not one issue.
2:36:05Just like you say about the Russians, we have great history.
2:36:07We're trying to find out where we can go from here.
2:36:47Did you notice where Kennedy played up to him?
2:36:51That was sucking up to D. King.
2:36:55Huh?
2:36:55That was just secondary to his own brother who gave him a commitment to them that he would never go off.
2:37:03Yeah, I think I should be saying that all the time.
2:37:06That's right.
2:37:06I guess that's how it is.
2:37:08Yeah, but he, if you want to get it out.
2:37:11Kennedy, though, but by Kennedy's point of view, beyond that, he's sucking up to the king.
2:37:25I can't believe that that bill couldn't present about Jim Mulroney.
2:37:27I don't think there are any other people on that.
2:37:50It's a hell of an achievement to change the world, which we've done.
2:37:56Well, I can tell you that.
2:37:57The Foreign Relations Committee, they look like a bunch of fucking... Now, on China, there are several months.
2:38:12Who goes?
2:38:12That's an agenda.
2:38:14I know this is the best perspective I can give,
2:38:49They don't want to do that.
2:38:53They don't want to do that.
2:38:55John, you rule it out.
2:38:57It's fine, right?
2:38:58No, let's just say it's a small working party, and that will be determined at a later time.
2:39:03And now, they'll say, how is that determined?
2:39:06What is the agenda?
2:39:07How is that going to be determined?
2:39:09I thought that I would just, I thought that this might say, well, that would be determined through a discussion.
2:39:17Just say we have a channel of communication, I'm not disclosing.
2:39:24How does that work?
2:39:24You can avoid it, but we have a channel of communication.
2:39:31We have a channel of communication.
2:39:32We have a channel of communication, I'm not disclosing.
2:39:39Well, I'm wondering on the other side, would we act on the student's behalf if we have a channel we set up to do that?
2:39:45Sure.
2:39:45We have a magic communication.
2:39:46I obviously won't distort it.
2:39:48I'll let you say it.
2:40:07to normalize relations and all other matters of mutual concern.
2:40:10In a matter of this day and age, China is a great country.
2:40:12It's been a good power for almost any country, but it affects the peace of the world.
2:40:15And I decide once again to go to China.
2:40:16I'm just taking a very broad discussion of all problems in the world, and it's really interesting.
2:40:42Do you think we should go over and do that?
2:40:44How do you do that?
2:41:13I think we might hold them over here.
2:41:35How do we avoid that?
2:41:36We've got to get .
2:41:37So if you win the .
2:41:38We have to get a majority of the .
2:42:05of the fact that expulsion is an important question.
2:42:07Each person will say, well, are you first following or not?
2:42:11If they're not first following, they'll say it's an important question.
2:42:15If they are first following, they'll say it isn't.
2:42:18Actually, some of them are going to cover themselves.
2:42:20More are going to vote for making it an important question.
2:42:24They're not going to vote.
2:42:25They can't say expulsion.
2:42:26As with some of the people who consider it an important question.
2:42:32Well, uh, 10-12-40-12.
2:42:33Oh, I see.
2:42:33In other words, it's just basic.
2:42:36That way they can go south.
2:42:38Well, the reason that somebody asked her...
2:42:56Oh, yeah.
2:42:56It's always been a very smart thing to say.
2:42:58Oh.
2:42:58Now, let's see.
2:42:58It doesn't seem to be good.
2:43:00It doesn't seem to be good.
2:43:23Yeah, there's a second.
2:43:25I mean, you see, he's going to testify.
2:43:32I don't know what he's going to testify.
2:43:34Free, later on.
2:43:34I'll be free until 12, and then, if I don't live, I'll be free until 12, and then we'll only take half an hour.
2:43:40Well, I know first.
2:43:53Good morning, Mr. Dye.
2:44:01Good morning.
2:44:01How are you, sir?
2:44:03Good.
2:44:04Sit down.
2:44:04Sit down.
2:44:05All right.
2:44:06Okay.
2:44:06Well, you've got a bunch of fussing and all.
2:44:09Oh, this is a good time, Dan.
2:44:10I told George, I said, I'd like to met AGW, the regional office, and I was going to be fired.
2:44:16It was the last thing I could do, son of a bitch.
2:44:21Screw this.
2:44:22We can't do anything about the judge.
2:44:24Of course, he played it smart.
2:44:25The judge tried to get us in, but the ATW guy delivered.
2:44:29They put a big busting plan in there and gave us a look.
2:44:31It's going to go out of the book.
2:44:34It's going out of the trunk, too.
2:44:39We're going to do one other thing.
2:44:40We've got a $3.5 program for emergency aid programs.
2:44:42I am not a personal sponsor.
2:44:44None of those sponsors are using their education.
2:44:55It's a, John, it's a miserable thing.
2:44:57It curbs your temper.
2:45:00No, that's right.
2:45:02I'm part of the problem.
2:45:04I went over there since 8.15 this morning.
2:45:07And they weren't prepared to go.
2:45:09If anything, we're just set up.
2:45:11And I talked to the president of the school board in Illinois.
2:45:17And they shouldn't come.
2:45:18Well, he said he'd get on the plane and go back immediately and meet them.
2:45:24But the other strong man on the board was here in Washington, Frank Ingers.
2:45:29And frankly, the local school board got this thing set up the hell away they wanted.
2:45:35And I just think that under all the circumstances of the world, there's plenty of things to be gained by the economy.
2:45:43And the only problem is how we're going to, well, what's the better?
2:45:48to be really better organized, what you are going to say, the position you are going to take.
2:45:52Because it's not just Austin.
2:45:54They've got a bigger problem than Dallas.
2:45:58And Dallas is where you come out of the 8,000 vote majority.
2:46:01Dallas County, that's one county.
2:46:02So that's where you want to play for the Marvels.
2:46:06And so, and it just can't get you out.
2:46:08And they've gone into a press conference, no better organized than they were.
2:46:10They were going to get asked about Dallas, and Crawford, and Houston.
2:46:16And frankly, at least,
2:46:17The ATW man who's going down with them might have been prepared to answer these questions, but the joint wasn't, and they both wanted to come down with you.
2:46:27And so I think you're going to postpone it, I think, for us in general.
2:46:31And we've got a few solutions, I don't think.
2:46:35I frankly don't know.
2:46:36I haven't gotten into it, have I?
2:46:38I got into it at 8.15 this morning.
2:46:39George called me at 7.30 and said, can you come by here?
2:46:42And I said, yes, I'll be there.
2:46:44He said, I can't pick up no more.
2:46:48But I agree with him.
2:46:49It's a long decision.
2:46:52It's unbelievable.
2:46:53The whole mess is unbelievable.
2:46:54It's a long decision, however.
2:46:57It does not require a lesson.
2:46:57It also does not require a balance.
2:47:01You know what I'm saying?
2:47:02What it does is it appears that there's another meadowland there, ready for discussion.
2:47:08And so the thing to do is to screw this every time, every way you can.
2:47:14The Texas court went too far in saying that dissipation, eight or ten times a minute, times a year, yes or no.
2:47:22You can't say if you can't go that far, you're out of your swamp.
2:47:26But there must be a way.
2:47:28Where we don't destroy the school system, but black schools destroy that as well.
2:47:31How the hell can a black school principal have no idea what he's doing?
2:47:36No way.
2:47:37They can't teach people that job.
2:47:40But they can coach, they can teach drawing, singing.
2:47:43What the hell else can they do?
2:47:45I'm basically very tolerant of this little area.
2:47:49I'm a realist.
2:47:49I know that we've got years before they're going to be ready.
2:47:53And that same is true of all of us.
2:47:57We can give ourselves about that and go, no doubt about it.
2:48:03It's going to take time.
2:48:06No, they were walking into a bad situation.
2:48:12I hope you agree that it's good.
2:48:16to come, to at least get for us, for me to get the rights out of that, and oppose an amendment that none of these two funds, emergency school aid funds, a billion and a half, you know, that's for, needless for busting.
2:48:29I see a reason for that is that the matter, the practical matter is somewhat of a show against the funds.
2:48:34Then, of course, they'll use it for other purposes, and then if they have to bust, they can use their other funds for that.
2:48:42But I just don't think it's scientific.
2:48:51I think you run some great risk.
2:48:53I think your actions will be interpreted for the black community as being
2:49:00directly against them, but I don't give a damn.
2:49:03But I think that's a risk you have to take.
2:49:05Well, I don't give a damn, and another reason is a lot of, frankly, a lot of sensible blacks are against it, too.
2:49:10Yeah, no question.
2:49:11The majority of us don't, and I don't know, but in other places, frankly, as far as the black community, you can't generalize about that, so that's that.
2:49:21The great majority of people this time of year are against busing, period.
2:49:24That's correct.
2:49:25In fact, I'm going to force these Democratic candidates
2:49:27And you imagine how much you'd like to vote on that?
2:49:32Eddie, let them vote on it.
2:49:33I agree.
2:49:34That would be provided just taking a strong position on any bussing and not appropriating any bussing.
2:49:39Right.
2:49:40When you do that, then you also have to take a position on what you're going to uphold.
2:49:45The court, you just hope the courts can find a better way to do it.
2:49:52But it is tough, isn't it?
2:49:53You see, you've got a different situation in Corpus where if you don't stand to come out, the great majority all over the place is helping you to break the everything down.
2:50:03So Woodrow Seals there ruled just the opposite.
2:50:06He ruled that there is a jury discrimination against the Latin.
2:50:09So Corpus is looking at crossing 17 to 20,000 students a day.
2:50:17So, if you have a major problem called Dallas, and I suspect that people don't want to be strong in Dallas, which they didn't want.
2:50:24Oh, thanks, Dallas is a place where they've got the magnets and plates, you know what I mean?
2:50:28Or urban communities, high schools, and so forth.
2:50:31They just want to tolerate it.
2:50:34And they're very conservative, and they want to be strong.
2:50:41I don't think that... Because Dallas had a country that I told you about.
2:50:48And it's a real problem.
2:50:50It's very high.
2:50:51As a matter of fact, Jim Collins is the one that put through this investigation.
2:50:55The Republican Congressman put through the investigation that passed by the House.
2:51:01I don't even know all about it.
2:51:04There are 326 of them investigating the use of funds for support buses.
2:51:11They want to investigate the use of federal funds.
2:51:15How am I ever being used to support the buses?
2:51:19But this is his way to counteract it.
2:51:20Well, we're going to get on the right side of it.
2:51:22We're going to just do what we can.
2:51:23We're going to come right here next year.
2:51:24The political issue is great.
2:51:25The political issue where our credits are on the liberal democratic side, but they can't get on the right side of it.
2:51:48But they've got to have a problem with it.
2:51:51They've got to have a problem with it.
2:51:53I'm going to force them to do it.
2:51:54And also integrate housing.
2:51:55The bastards are very clever in slipping up on it.
2:51:57I'm going to force them to take a position about it.
2:52:01They aren't going to do anything about it.
2:52:05That's the reality.
2:52:11I think that because legislative action is required,
2:52:44the state of action required that we could be subject to some legitimate criticism for making our proposals that those proposals require action by Congress, drawing them into the Congress debate and the Congress adjournments.
2:53:11For example, the investment tax bill reveals that only those two require commercial action.
2:53:19The import tax work and the import tax size tax.
2:53:22Those three things, of course, which are quite fundamental to the whole project.
2:53:28I think they're fundamental.
2:53:29The freeze is not.
2:53:31And, of course, the freeze is fundamental to the program.
2:53:35It's not required commercial action.
2:53:38and neither does the other.
2:53:40On the other hand, the breeze and the floating and so forth should have congressional consultation.
2:53:50Now, I think that, as I see it, to get these characters together and to throw it right there, we know that Congress is going to keep going on.
2:54:09not only has the feeling of panic, but also has the feeling of somewhat irresponsibility.
2:54:18Here's the way that I think we work out the pattern.
2:54:26I think we should decide within ourselves.
2:54:32I think we should then
2:54:35I don't call him by name, so in fact, I don't know exactly the opposite, particularly Peterson.
2:54:40He's got to be told to lay off of this and get along with some other son of his.
2:54:45Volker, you know, you've got to tell him that there's a green heart, is what I say, then, where they won't talk a heart to him at this point in time, but I believe that this is the idea.
2:54:56Ah, Shelton actually would keep him in our ship, but you and Shelton get the program together.
2:55:04And then we would plan to have it ready the day Congress returns, which would be about the 8th.
2:55:24It's the day after.
2:55:25It's the day after.
2:55:26Labor Day is the 6th.
2:55:28I'd be fine.
2:55:28We would be ready then.
2:55:29That's about right.
2:55:30We'd throw the whole thing right out.
2:55:33Now, it seems to me that that is the feeling of action.
2:55:40There'll be some stirring on the clock as we're working around and calling for various hundreds of people
2:55:59But it will allow us to really get our guts in the road.
2:56:01For example, I once would like to have George, and he can do this, and I'm going to lay off and give him a, put him on hair loss or on trails, and just tell him that I'm wanting her to get us up in the hills.
2:56:24and so forth and 72 is all about.
2:56:25But to give us, not only, we've got to get bigger with regard to cutting, but 10% of travelers now are postponing the other next, the actual service.
2:56:46Let me tell you what, we can throw it in.
2:57:17There are two more Apollo shots scheduled.
2:57:33Those two Apollo shots, actually, are not really needed.
2:57:35I mean, mine, that is.
2:57:36I mean, one up there, and three up there, and so forth.
2:57:38Each nine.
2:57:38We could very well dispense with those two shots.
2:57:40I mean, one controls something, and the other, how does that sound?
2:57:56I don't think that's bad.
2:57:58It does show at least that we're trying to do something better.
2:58:01You know, the polls show at the present time that Donald is saying that education is full, that 70% of the people say we should leave them enough to say, you know, should they not hire me?
2:58:14I haven't done very good.
2:58:15I believe in all this, and I still want to have a man's base for Mars and all that.
2:58:18But I think there's a way, there's a time and a place for everything.
2:58:22There are plenty of times you say, oh, I suppose we're not going to do it.
2:58:32but we didn't want to throw that in at this point.
2:58:36But what I'm getting at is that's an indication of other things that might come up for us.
2:58:43And I wonder why the Rehabilitation Program, now in the field of controls, seems to me
2:58:49Charles has studied this thing a great deal with their people and all of them, and your people as well.
2:58:56I'm not the director now, but what are you trying to do?
2:58:59I'm the director of capital control.
2:59:02Capital control.
2:59:03Now, I think that if you were going to train your government, you ought to come up with a program.
2:59:10And let's really tell those people that that's another hell of an area to do business in.
2:59:16I agree.
2:59:17As a matter of fact, it's necessary.
2:59:21As long as we have these, as long as the dollar isn't close, we've got to keep them from going out.
2:59:29Or if you agree, I don't know.
2:59:30I agree with that.
2:59:31I think we're part of a movement.
2:59:33Some don't believe we should, but I... Well, we don't.
2:59:36Don't do it.
2:59:36We shouldn't.
2:59:37Don't we really need a little time to see whether we shouldn't do it?
2:59:41Yes.
2:59:41I'd like to have about that program that's really not certain.
2:59:45We're not writing about any of that.
2:59:48We'll be very interested in taking the whole thing.
2:59:52A new economic policy.
2:59:55Well, on the capital controls, those who are opposed to the rule of capital control...
3:00:03are against it largely because they say it.
3:00:05They don't know what this program is, but they say that in light of the inflation, in the light of the export of capital from this country, that if you remove your capital controls, it's in effect a direct slap in the face of your trading makers around the world because it may be easier for dollars to go out.
3:00:21What they don't want are more dollars.
3:00:24But the point is that how do you take a completely different approach?
3:00:31You're saying, in fact, we're willing to float if you all don't like our dollars, but that's fine.
3:00:37We'll change the exchange rates.
3:00:38You're in a new ballgame.
3:00:40If there was ever a time when we would have gotten close, it's now.
3:00:46But we'll pursue that.
3:00:47Let me say, on capital control, I'm no expert on this, but if you take a hard look, I'll see whether it should be done.
3:00:53And don't let the documentary people, if we're not working on that, I'm sure they wouldn't see that George hates his intro on that.
3:00:58He feels the documentary should be removed.
3:01:04I'll look at it from the standpoint of the credit and the tax that we collect and the Commerce Department and what they do and the Fed and what they do, but it's not going out any way.
3:01:20Now, it occurs to me, too, in the trade area,
3:01:26It might be that you could come up with a little bit more package in terms of, I don't know, maybe XM Bank.
3:01:35I guess we're doing as much as we can.
3:01:37I don't know what that's going to be for anyway.
3:01:40Well, there's the RFP problem.
3:01:41I'm just saying, maybe there's some more for XM Bank.
3:01:45Maybe there's, maybe...
3:01:50You know, Peter should have done a lot of things on this deal.
3:01:55He may have a few little tidbits that we could throw into that thing.
3:02:00I don't know how we're going to increase American creative law.
3:02:06You see what I mean?
3:02:07Now, the final point, however, perhaps the most important one, is that...
3:02:15I haven't agreed.
3:02:18There, John, the more I think about it, I think about the creation.
3:02:23I just don't have any doubt.
3:02:26I have no confidence.
3:02:27They say, well, Lincoln is a legal man.
3:02:31Well, this last year, this last year.
3:02:34I mean, the way he's writing is unbelievable.
3:02:37I know that.
3:02:37I was in OPA.
3:02:38It's a horrible thing.
3:02:41I'm in creation.
3:02:43You've got to, at least you have a bureaucracy to get them.
3:02:45And you've got some people who know how to do that.
3:02:47And I'm inclined to just set it up over there and actually do it now.
3:02:49You see, I haven't seen any people in the White House who serve in a building bureaucracy.
3:03:01The way I understand what you did is that you were trying to put the way that you could have everybody do a little bit extra for their president.
3:03:10It's a building of a new bureaucracy.
3:03:13It's a building of a new bureaucracy that I don't think has a bad connotation.
3:03:17Just say we're part of the country.
3:03:23How does that sound to you?
3:03:25Well, I think we're probably the most, outside of the OEP, theoretically, we're the most logical ones to do it.
3:03:31As I told you, I don't want to.
3:03:34What the hell are we going to do?
3:03:36We could do it probably better than anybody else, with fewer restraints on us, you see, because we have no constituency.
3:03:46But let us really come down to a point where the big guys are concerned about that sort of thing.
3:03:54You can get them on the phone and talk to them and say, I'm going to look at that.
3:04:00Let me come to a point.
3:04:02Let us approach it from a really long perspective.
3:04:06What does it do to save farmers?
3:04:09Their prices are so high.
3:04:10I mean, does it mean that the prices have a hell of a freeze?
3:04:15the price of lettuce can't go up to 25 cents a head, or like it's 50 cents a head now.
3:04:24It has to stay where it is.
3:04:27Of course, that's a, I guess, there's where George Schultz's idea of the 60-pick freeze is that, I mean, in other words, the shorter the freeze, then just about the time everybody got it again, it begins to think that the goddamn thing is a mess, you take it off.
3:04:42On the other hand, if it's too short,
3:04:49Well, anyway, I think that we've got to think about how long this thing should be.
3:04:55Have you done any more thinking about whether to consider 120?
3:04:58I like to deal with 120 in a way, because it pushes us through January and past Christmas, which I think would be damn good.
3:05:06The only thing about the short period that worries me a little bit, I'm afraid, is the average person.
3:05:12Not the everybody.
3:05:13Every writer or columnist.
3:05:14Well, hey, all this 60 days is not going to be time for anyone.
3:05:20This is just a soft cover.
3:05:23Well, now, what is your reaction?
3:05:28Well, you've got to have them.
3:05:31You know, if there's a crisis of some kind that I can't imagine what it would be, yes, there would be special authority for exceptions.
3:05:48All right.
3:05:53No question about it.
3:05:54And I would go say that I never, I was in a ration.
3:05:57We had perceptions by the thousands.
3:06:03And you have this thing.
3:06:07I'm afraid you're not going to understand me.
3:06:11I just don't think we'll go into it.
3:06:14I didn't bring it to you.
3:06:17But take the letters, take on case letters.
3:06:19That's the question.
3:06:21Take all of them, for example.
3:06:24That's, you know, the big box, whatever you call it.
3:06:28My guess is that we probably have enough going to show where we can use storage
3:06:56maintain the price, and still maintain an average supply for a four-month period.
3:07:00That's my guess, but I don't know.
3:07:02I have talked to agriculture finance and that.
3:07:04Medication for hogs and hens, it wouldn't go up.
3:07:09If they're bringing 19 cents now, they'd bring 19 cents.
3:07:14That's all there is.
3:07:17But there's a price on every commodity every day.
3:07:21It's going to be tough to enforce it in some cases.
3:07:28That's correct, and of course that's where we'll behave.
3:07:54I'm checking the size of the package and seeing what the purpose of that is.
3:07:58It was an awful thing.
3:08:00That's why we can't have her being pregnant.
3:08:02And this may cure it.
3:08:04This is why I said that if we keep this thing on the floor box, we're going to die.
3:08:09and just say, you know, we've got an exception, you know, and I don't want to say, you know, I don't want to say, you know, I don't want to say, you know,
3:08:31What I meant is people, basically, because they are sinners, they believe that Christ has come to them, not necessarily one of them.
3:08:41And the other side of that is, why do you take them off?
3:08:46For example, an O.B.H.
3:08:47in Waukesha, for example,
3:09:04I mean, that's people are going to get delighted so well.
3:09:19If we take it off, that's a...
3:09:24Now, these are the impoverished.
3:09:26No, I don't think so.
3:09:26But, uh, that is a very good thing.
3:09:28We've got, one of the things we've got to remember, I think, in your point is that you don't know who this really is anyway.
3:09:34The average person who rescues all that fat, they're, they're, their prices, you know, they have a lot of them.
3:09:53But it's business, this is the business we're looking for.
3:09:58And this may, thereby, inspire business.
3:10:01But I see what it does to wages.
3:10:05If wages are curious, there will be no wage increase in trade.
3:10:14And right after, the business may jump.
3:10:21This is why, frankly, we need to do a lot more things like that.
3:10:24If I look around, I don't have to think about it this morning.
3:10:28I thought about it in terms of the
3:10:33But for every individual, this may not be an all-inclusive, but I'd rather turn to the guidelines.
3:10:38We've got lifting.
3:10:40But in so doing, I would agree with it.
3:10:42I would agree with it.
3:10:43That's not the guidelines.
3:10:44I don't expect either prices or wages to decrease over 4% during this year.
3:10:52That's the guidelines.
3:10:54And we're going to do everything in our power.
3:10:57We're going to hold responsible the industry of the union that breaks that line.
3:11:04And if they do, you're still free.
3:11:06I'm not at all sure the smart thing that gets out of you.
3:11:09I'm not sure the smart thing wouldn't be to go 60 days before and throw it back home.
3:11:16Have it on the government election.
3:11:18We can do that.
3:11:19Sure.
3:11:20If they like it, what then?
3:11:22You let it out and show what happens.
3:11:25Now, the truth of the matter is that
3:11:29I'm afraid we're headed into a period of a lot more control now.
3:11:33I would like to say that that's true because of the international competition.
3:11:41There's certainly going to be a whole lot more government under management and subsidy as to the economy.
3:11:46Wherever we have international competition, that's all there is to it.
3:11:51All this nonsense about the antitrust laws have got to be modified or winged and we've got to have subsidy for international, for those areas where we've got to play.
3:12:03We've got to have non-tariff barriers to fight the other countries like the NIRs.
3:12:08I know all that.
3:12:10And I really think this whole thing ought to be postured.
3:12:14One thing that the lay will give us time to do is to posture this whole approach in terms of what you're looking for in the decade of the Senate.
3:12:25And during this next, during this decade, during the next four years, we'll celebrate the 200th anniversary.
3:12:32And what you're trying to do, what you're, you're trying here to deal with fundamentalist structure.
3:12:39of the domestic economy and our international relations to provide a basis for an increased, renewed vitality, renewed dedication, that the decade of the 70s is going to be a decade of production, of vigor, of growth, of expansion.
3:12:56for new products, new commodities, and the greater utilization of American talent to reach the American region during this 200th anniversary.
3:13:07So if you're taking these steps now, you should be ready.
3:13:11So we can get ready not for next year, but for the entire decade or so.
3:13:16Also, in other words, to get America healthy.
3:13:19For the big race.
3:13:20We're living in a market-heavy world.
3:13:23You know, that's the name I use, of course, in our own political project in Kansas City.
3:13:31The world's changed since World War II.
3:13:34We don't have five great economic superpowers.
3:13:37China's not yet one, but we have one.
3:13:39And the very fact that we've used the military
3:13:43which had to do with both China and Russia enormously increasing the economic variety, and the fact that Europe, for example, has succeeded in the market by a great deal, but there have been increases in the amount of competition and the amount of food we can have.
3:13:59Now, this is not necessarily a reason for us all to say, oh, Christ, this is a mistake.
3:14:03It isn't.
3:14:03That's the world.
3:14:04We're in a race now, and by God, we're not alone anymore.
3:14:06We're not way out front.
3:14:07And in order to stay ahead, we've got to move ahead.
3:14:10And we've got to be healthy and strong and vigorous
3:14:12The others take the communists, basically.
3:14:16Well, you take the Koreans, and let's forget the, forget Europe.
3:14:22But take the Soviet Union, take China, take Japan.
3:14:25Those countries still have a sense of mission.
3:14:28They still have a sense of sacrifice.
3:14:29They still have a sense of destiny.
3:14:31and they're going to beat our goddamn brains off unless we get a little sense of mission and that's the whole idea that this thing or this is the thing that are already we've got peters unfortunately and uh talking along this line he's thinking very very good so what i come down i say
3:14:57I must say, I'm greatly tempted to do it now.
3:15:00I like to make plays and play when I'm unexpected.
3:15:05On the other hand, I feel this is such an important revolutionary change.
3:15:13We should do it in a different way.
3:15:15I also come to another point.
3:15:18I do not think that it is your case, your grace being, and this is very important to you.
3:15:29I know you're not worried about the fact that they'll need to say, well, what the hell is he saying then?
3:15:37But I think that it's very, I think it is important that the Secretary of the Federation, and the Chief Economic Officer of the Federation, be one that cannot be subject to the attack of, say, one thing one day, and then the next week, five weeks, four weeks, and then he just changes his mind.
3:15:59See what I mean?
3:16:00It sounds as if it's too...
3:16:02I take responsibility for it.
3:16:03I put the damn thing down.
3:16:05But inevitably they know that this is where it comes from.
3:16:10And it gives them also the feeling that, well, what the hell is the history?
3:16:18Now the other thing, if you put just a month in between, after September, after all, the summers have, we made this, and actually we've taken that re-evaluation, we come back, but wham, we hit the damn thing on the numbers.
3:16:52My God, we've got to be able to trust these people.
3:16:56The only problem we have is a leak.
3:16:58And I don't think we're going to have a leak.
3:17:03Now, so I have no question, I have no argument about this.
3:17:06September is better for all the reasons you pointed out.
3:17:11Plus, I would be more comfortable if, frankly, if we have to go this week,
3:17:17I personally think that we have not adequately analyzed all of the potential angles of this thing, or even, I think we're in fact, portion of the decision a little bit.
3:17:30And we don't, and we may not have, and we may not have enough to drive in terms of the budget things we can do to control this thing.
3:17:38We actually have a problem, because if we do this right, we need to, we need to orchestrate this thing, we need to have some magnificent charts
3:17:46which we can do now in the next 30 days without any relation to the moves that you're going to make.
3:17:51We certainly need to look at the way that you're at price for music and what follows it.
3:18:00We need to look at the capital controls, which we really haven't analyzed.
3:18:08We need to have this much time to write a speech.
3:18:12Now, the idea, if you could just hear what all your other problems have said, which are 48 hours, and I have a right of speech in this tonight.
3:18:19It would be, it would be all right if Michael would come to Quinkerson, if he could come back to put the goddamn fire out.
3:18:27And I think you're right.
3:18:29Hitting the Congress, if only just to hit the Congress as they go home, you'd have to alibi for it.
3:18:36You'd have to say, I'm proposing this note so that you can talk to your people as you go home.
3:18:43Now, that's the only basis you can do it.
3:18:44Otherwise, they would think it was a damn smart political trick or trap or something like that.
3:18:50And that's the only basis on which you can get away from that.
3:18:55Now, when they come back,
3:18:57they would have been at home.
3:18:59I think you're going to get a lot more discussions.
3:19:03Javits is a Board of Professors this morning.
3:19:05He and some other moderate Republicans and Republicans are out here boosting income policy next week.
3:19:11Well, that's fine.
3:19:12He's going to run into some of that.
3:19:14Maybe the way to get at that is to indicate to the Javits that we welcome their
3:19:35They're all going to have different ideas.
3:19:41Frankly, I think it's good to let it build.
3:19:45You can stand it.
3:19:48That's all.
3:19:49I know you can.
3:19:50That's a pretty bad month of August.
3:19:52The month of August, John.
3:19:55Let me tell you, it's the month of March before the election.
3:19:59I remember John, for Christ's sake, I agree.
3:20:01Doesn't matter to me.
3:20:02I went to the Republican Convention in Philadelphia, and we were already figuring what the hell this was going to appoint the Supreme Court.
3:20:09He was dead.
3:20:11And so if the economy came up about two or three points and it was in, that was why it went ahead.
3:20:19So we all know that this situation could change.
3:20:21Nobody should get, there's too much of a tendency for everybody to be affected by the incident.
3:20:27There's no question of them doing those things.
3:20:30I heard it all.
3:20:30My first time going down on the T-Dyke with the M-40, the T-Dyke with the Pops.
3:20:38You realize that we had to balance our carries until they would be 100 feet.
3:20:41Now they're 12.
3:20:42The reason is we kicked the shit out of them.
3:20:46And if I said that we took a lot of heat, it was tough.
3:20:48It was tough, some of the best.
3:20:49But the thing is, we must never, we must never be, we must never allow that.
3:20:53But all things are in line.
3:20:55There's no leadership in this and that.
3:21:00All right, then get them up.
3:21:01We should worry unless we're ready to come up with the presidency.
3:21:04We can always come back and get them right between the eyes.
3:21:08And then they forget within a moment what happened to them.
3:21:11I fail to squeal around for a month, but in the month of August, there ain't a hell of a lot of people listening, John.
3:21:16You know, it's a month, I think, more than any month of the year when people don't listen.
3:21:22We don't go off like the Europeans.
3:21:24The average American in August tries to do baseball and fishing and...
3:21:29Well, we try to get the school board and the hospital to respond.
3:21:32And nobody does.
3:21:34The leaders are particularly wrong.
3:21:37The leaders are the ones that we've got to reach.
3:21:39I don't think that's in the problem.
3:21:41And besides that, when you come in September for this plan, there's not an economist, there's not a writer, there's not anybody in their right mind that doesn't think that you're going to work on this.
3:21:51Now, to back on this personal point, which may not...
3:21:58Please, we have a reason.
3:22:00But a finance minister or a secretary of treasury has to be inscrutable at any time in dealing with the international market.
3:22:08Because he's got to deny it until the last minute.
3:22:11You're not going to be back.
3:22:13You're not going to allow it to go to its own source.
3:22:16But when this action is taken, what the columnists are going to relate back to is my speech today.
3:22:25That's going to be the time.
3:22:26Not what I said here about the food for the one unit.
3:22:29It's about the dollar sum.
3:22:31Yeah.
3:22:31And about the fact that we're going to change and we've got to have health.
3:22:37We've got to change our trade agreements.
3:22:39We can't keep on.
3:22:41Oh, yeah.
3:22:41Basically the one unit.
3:22:45We're going to be some tough traders.
3:22:47And we've got to change.
3:22:48Things are going to have to change.
3:22:50We've got to have that.
3:22:51That's what we're going to do.
3:22:51That's just what we're going to do.
3:22:53You're prepared to wait for it.
3:22:54And we have also indicated this.
3:22:56You know, I may see the press in front of me tomorrow.
3:23:00I'm going to do it.
3:23:01I'm going to do it.
3:23:10I don't want to give them an indication of my lack of confidence in myself.
3:23:17I've been sent over to your shop and there's six or seven points that you've made on that program.
3:23:36There are some positive things.
3:23:37There's some positive things.
3:23:39There is.
3:23:39You know, construction is better.
3:23:41Corporate profits.
3:23:42Corporate profits.
3:23:43Right.
3:23:43Personal income.
3:23:44Personal income.
3:23:45And the fact that the rate of inflation is less, the GDP deflator is less, et cetera.
3:23:48So we are making progress.
3:23:49And you're saying that.
3:23:51I don't think.
3:23:52I think you're being very, very funny.
3:23:55Very humble.
3:23:55And you're saying, we don't have any major problems now.
3:23:58I can't.
3:23:59We're not taking a decision.
3:24:01Well, there are.
3:24:01There are.
3:24:04I would just say, I think that they can show them that.
3:24:07I doubt that they will.
3:24:09They don't know about that.
3:24:10I don't think they will, but if they do, just say, well, things are very quiet in the national field.
3:24:15We're looking, but we're always watching.
3:24:17I've got a data report on this from the Secretary of the Treasury.
3:24:21We hope for very technically doable back-and-forth Secretary of the Treasury speech in Munich that represents my name, but I don't know about the Secretary of the Treasury speech.
3:24:35I think that's an indicator.
3:24:37I'll go back to your beginning speech.
3:24:39I don't think you want to do anything else.
3:24:42If they brought you out anymore, you want to just say, well, we're looking forward to these here the last of September.
3:24:48We'll have the batteries in the front of the unit.
3:24:51We hope to provide a high degree of leadership that will enhance the stabilization of the world economy.
3:24:57Now, I've got another thought.
3:25:02Now this is really a...
3:25:05Thank you very much.
3:25:08Thank you.
3:25:08You're welcome.
3:25:09With regard...
3:25:10I want to say a word about Bill.
3:25:29Why can I not say that I'm a trading partner?
3:25:51The tax amount is more or less.
3:25:54Should we say that or should we not?
3:25:55I don't know, but it should be more or less.
3:25:57Now, if you get that, I didn't get the whole purpose, but you did tell me that you didn't get into that piece when they shot the ticket.
3:26:02Now I'm not sure.
3:26:03Why couldn't I say that?
3:26:04Now, the other thing is, I'm thinking this.
3:26:07I wonder if you could call the lines of only just a few people down there and say, look, President has asked me to make some recommendations on the tax thing for the next one year.
3:26:22And I'd be very much welcome to your views.
3:26:25Now, here's the point.
3:26:26If you ask me to predict the next part of the project, it gets in the field that we're building the project.
3:26:32And then, of course, on the side of the project, does that make any sense?
3:26:36Or do you think we shouldn't do that?
3:26:38Maybe that's just what it is.
3:26:40I'll say, I think I will say, that I thought the Secretary of the Treasury was conducting that.
3:26:44I think he was considering a number of tax reforms for fiscal year 73.
3:26:51I think it just doesn't do it.
3:26:54I would, and I just say that, and I feel proud to just say it now.
3:26:58Obviously, we're not going to overlook any step or any action that we think is necessary to discuss it.
3:27:05I think that all of this might
3:27:08made that statement.
3:27:11What have they asked about pollution pricing rules?
3:27:13I say, well, that's a separate problem.
3:27:14I am against permitting pollution pricing rules.
3:27:18It's a perky, non-straightjacket, despite having the same problem.
3:27:22As far as other entities are concerned, we have already used them.
3:27:26I mean, we have been struggling working with the construction trades, for example, getting theirs down.
3:27:34I met with the steel people.
3:27:34I told the oil people.
3:27:35I reprimanded them and they raised their prices.
3:27:38We issued a statement here just the other day regretting the rise in the steel prices.
3:27:43We've certainly expressed what this administration has with respect to interest rates.
3:27:49We've tried to say personally and publicly that we think that very reasonable interest rates are absolutely essential
3:27:56continuing expansion of this country, continuation of the home building program.
3:28:00We've done a lot of that.
3:28:02And we're going to continue to do whatever we think we can do and be effective in doing without putting the old economy to the straightjacket.
3:28:11What came out of Europe as the face of the nation?
3:28:16The only way they got into it, I just simply said that we certainly would have looked at it later.
3:28:29We talked about it.
3:28:31You talked about it greatly in the last couple of days.
3:28:34We did a couple of weeks ago at Camp David, the president always considered every day what's happening, every week, analyzing.
3:28:44And I said, you can be sure that
3:28:47that a president who took bold and courageous action, which he did in China, is going to be equally bold on the domestic front.
3:28:53You can't assume that there's anything that's not going to be considered.
3:28:57We can say that.
3:28:58First, don't say, well, we're not.
3:29:01We're not.
3:29:03On the other hand, in terms of temporary action, we have taken some action, and we of course will consider other actions if it is necessary.
3:29:16Question on Mills.
3:29:18I heard that Mills' administration was sharing the credit or not, if you want to share the credit.
3:29:40Anyway, whatever he said, let me say.
3:29:46Don't you feel, maybe, that it was Willard?
3:29:57Actually, I'd say a little bit, Mr. President.
3:30:01I'm sorry the chairman feels that way.
3:30:02We are grateful.
3:30:03He can give us on this or any other problem.
3:30:05I want him to have credit.
3:30:07Let me ask you this.
3:30:07I don't want him at this point in his life.
3:30:10If you would call me, would you do that, sir?
3:30:12You say we were having a president person, you know, at this point in time.
3:30:25And he was quite distressed about all this hanging around.
3:30:29So he wanted you personally to know that as far as revenue sharing is concerned, as far as tax policy is concerned, as far as trade policy is concerned, that we don't have any private offices.
3:30:43We just want to get it done and we'd like to share it.
3:30:45I'd like you to say it.
3:30:47And you can tell me if you're overwhelmed and you've got any thoughts on this.
3:30:53There's taxing and so forth that he wants.
3:30:55He wants to get passed along here.
3:30:56The President hasn't got any money.
3:30:58But in fact, this President isn't trying to.
3:30:59We're not trying to knock you down.
3:31:01When you do that, he says, you know, he can't control all the White House people.
3:31:05You know how those White House people are.
3:31:07How do you think of this?
3:31:08I think that's happening.
3:31:09Now, there's another reason.
3:31:11This is exactly what you said.
3:31:15And so it's a problem.
3:31:42Because many of us, therefore, I think that it's just as strong for us to do it.
3:31:45And also, we've got to remember that we're going to be here for a long time, and he's going to be around.
3:31:52Albert is not well.
3:31:54No, he is not well.
3:31:56I've seen him, and I've just gone on and on about that.
3:32:00And it seems to me, John, that the office for the Democrats has got to be in Albert's presence.
3:32:14I think that's what we'll do.
3:32:23I guess we'll recall that position.
3:32:26He's the Speaker.
3:32:27He's President.
3:32:27Right, he's President.
3:32:30He's the Speaker, sure.
3:32:31Which is very smart, in other words, you've got to be an actual figure before you can be a congressional figure.
3:32:38The last thing is, regarding our character,
3:32:45I'm having lunch with him today at 1 o'clock.
3:32:51It's our weekly meeting at 1 o'clock.
3:33:06and he's going to need to go to the blue collar and he's going to need to go to the blue collar and he's going to need to go
3:33:25who would be right in the face of that and ask for an increase.
3:33:29There are many things that I think he has to do.
3:33:31He also has to do with Schultz, and it would affect Schultz, and I'm here for argument, but you can say that as far as the president is concerned, that he, I don't want to be too soft, as far as he's concerned, but I don't want him to get stirred up about a little issue in Washington that he feels that there's a long-term problem.
3:33:53There's a shark in there.
3:33:53A shark in general, we just can't do it.
3:33:57I mean, I think that's worth raising because why let him worry about that?
3:34:01No, it's worth raising.
3:34:02He did before, huh?
3:34:03Well, let me just say that that's all we're talking about.
3:34:05I think that nobody, and we are asking nobody, he's never discussed it.
3:34:08I'm sure that he approves of this, that this was done for us to raise him to that or anybody else who doesn't like it.
3:34:17Now, on the other side of the thing,
3:34:23I want to avoid seeing this week
3:34:35And I think we've got to consider whether we should have a property that should be held on next week.
3:34:44I don't find that it's best not to, but we didn't cancel the trial.
3:34:51I'd say, you know, just what are your views?
3:35:00don't get into the position of making computers, if you are, if you have, if you are a buyer of one of those, certainly have some confidence in the president.
3:35:07I think that's the whole point.
3:35:08I think we've told them that before.
3:35:10Because, uh, we've, uh, we've, uh, we've had, uh, we've made a lot of policy changes.
3:35:13It may surprise you some time.
3:35:27But you can't do it by getting out and fighting the public.
3:35:32The thing Artie's got to realize is that you never get a policy through by backing the other fellow up on the wall.
3:35:38So if he's got a choice, then I'd like to stay at home.
3:35:41And that's what he's doing.
3:35:44And they are a bit smarter than that.
3:35:46I don't know what else to say now about them.
3:35:48And then say that if he brings up the idea of competing with me, it's a good idea.
3:35:52But right now, there's pretty much a lot of other people trying to get the Congress out of here and so forth and so on.
3:35:59And you can have it.
3:36:01Fair enough.
3:36:02But you don't get to compete with me.
3:36:04I don't think, unless you think otherwise, I don't think you can compete with me.
3:36:10So I don't think the Clark meeting is useful.
3:36:12We spoke a little bit this week.
3:36:14I don't think the Clark meeting is useful.
3:36:34Theoretically, that's out of the ballpark.
3:36:36And so what about pure ambition?
3:36:38And Arndt has actually got this finance committee who finances studies everybody in the world.
3:36:42And there's nothing on the president's desk.
3:36:43I mean, if you'd be the first to know, it's always going to be Frank.
3:36:47Nothing on our desk, you know.
3:36:48But there's a portion of me that studies Arndt.
3:36:51And I say, Arndt, what do you think?
3:36:54And he says, I think at one point, he loved Arndt.
3:37:00He said,
3:37:02Not independence, but more control.
3:37:05Depends on where you're in or out, John.
3:37:08Oh, of course it does.
3:37:09Art is now in.
3:37:10Sure, he wants to be independent.
3:37:13But I wouldn't, I don't think we are letting him completely on the court.
3:37:16No, I don't think he is.
3:37:18No, I won't let him on.
3:37:18I never won't let him on.
3:37:20Not as long as you're at office, John.
3:37:23He's got to know that he might want it.
3:37:25Of course, he's not going to change.
3:37:27The older he gets, the more he's set in his way.
3:37:29Sure, the more he's set in his way, the more pain he's going to get and so forth.
3:37:32So you can't ever let him up.
3:37:34It's a question of next week or next month.
3:37:38It's the next five years you can't let him up.
3:37:43And he asked about the President.
3:37:45Well, the President is not a man who ever holds any grudges.
3:37:49My God, I'm even fighting with Harold Swanson or something.
3:37:52But my wife, on the other hand, she said, frankly, he's been disappointed because he thought he had an understanding that you would bend over backward not to appear to be criticizing him.
3:38:10which has been broadly so triggered, and that's a huge danger of position.
3:38:15Is that the one you're taking?
3:38:18I don't think so.
3:38:19I think I'd keep it to myself.
3:38:20I said to Arthur, and you might even say, Arthur, if it ever occurred to you, one thing that would be very helpful, and it might really make news, if you kind of said something affirmative about the President on his leadership in the world,
3:38:38education bills, pay grade bills.
3:38:42He knows god damn well that we're fighting this matter very well.
3:38:45And I don't recall that he has said one thing.
3:38:49He's never said an affirmative thing.
3:38:52And for example, arguments, he's got a good amount of arguments and details.
3:38:57So if he were good this month, he might say that this is not right.
3:39:05They'd probably be up until about the last month, last month.
3:39:11But he did say that he would say something good.
3:39:21Okay, all right.
3:39:22Now with regard to our clients, and let's not have anyone tell us the money.
3:39:28And they just say, no.
3:39:30But we just, we not only cool everybody off, but you take the responsibility.
3:39:34You tell them.
3:39:37What about you?
3:39:38Well, I tell people you tell them.
3:39:40Why don't you tell me?
3:39:42I'll tell Pete.
3:39:43How far will you tell me?
3:39:44I'll just tell Pete.
3:39:45He's got a good line in this thing that I'll have practice.
3:39:51I'm ready to go.
3:39:52Let's go push this.
3:39:53That's a question of words.
3:39:55I think he is like we're trying to crowd him.
3:39:58And he said that he
3:40:02He's got it all under consideration.
3:40:04He wants to think about this.
3:40:06But right now, he doesn't want any talk on or off the record, whatever, about it during the month of August.
3:40:12Tell McCracken no talk on or off the record during the month of August.
3:40:18President, this is a good time to think about it in California for a couple weeks.
3:40:26And right now, he feels that we should, that the Congress is just ready to leave.
3:40:35We shouldn't do anything now.
3:40:36I said, well, we can do something better.
3:40:38We're just not going to do anything now.
3:40:40But the main thing, month of August, we should have a moratorium on total reporting, moratorium on any speculation.
3:40:48Just try to say, study everything.
3:40:50Don't say anything.
3:40:53Now, in regard to the
3:40:55I'll talk to Shultz and I'll mention it.
3:40:57If he can tell us when he's on the scene, when he's on the scene, and if I can work with him.
3:41:04I'll mention it to him when I go in the morning.
3:41:09Then, in terms of your plans, you will be yawning on this detention strike.
3:41:12Partly.
3:41:12Partly.
3:41:13Mostly the last of the first one.
3:41:14About the middle.
3:41:16We'll stay through to your interim, and the NSCD will be on the 12th, and probably on the 13th, which would be about time.
3:41:21We've got a three-minute detention strike.
3:41:24We've got a six-minute job.
3:41:26You know, I'm not going to push you out on it.
3:41:30I know I'm nervous.
3:41:33Well, the dinner was really great.
3:41:36The dinner was really great.
3:41:37Then there'd be no business from then on.
3:41:40Then you'd be in Texas.
3:41:41Yes.
3:41:41But I was thinking that if I get through at the end of my stay in California, I wouldn't try to take off the leash.
3:41:46They say two weeks, but they've already cut it down to two weeks.
3:41:49But I may try to take off a total week without any stay for the time.
3:41:54Which I probably should, but I can't be sure.
3:41:57And I can't be sure.
3:42:05But I thought that perhaps you and I ought to get together again.
3:42:10But I think the best place to get together is right, I'll be back here.
3:42:16I'll be back here for a later date.
3:42:19My view is that we ought to get together before that.
3:42:23We've got to get together a week before that, right?
3:42:27where I'll be at that time you should get together say sometime around 30th of August having in mind the fact that we must be ready for the 6th of August and the 8th of August or the 1st of September because I think it's just as well they have no more than that in the meantime I wonder if
3:42:57You go forward and vet this out every way you can on their side.
3:43:02I'll have Shelts go forward, the budget side, and just explore the damage on the budget side.
3:43:10And then we'll get the package out and test on it.
3:43:18I think there's a great community setting on here.
3:43:22Yes, I agree.
3:43:22They'll be back with it, hearing all the mentions and all the rest.
3:43:25They'll be ready for dropping everything in.
3:43:27Land, just like that.
3:43:29Mr. President, I agree with that.
3:43:31You see, this will be September.
3:43:32Then as soon as we agree, as soon as you go to the whole month, they will go to the whole month.
3:43:40That'll put you in January.
3:43:42Right.
3:43:431st of January.
3:43:44Then you immediately follow that.
3:43:47with your State of the Union message in January.
3:43:50State of the Union and tax reform.
3:43:51Well that includes tax reform.
3:43:53That's the centerpiece of it.
3:43:54In other words, tax reforms produce something common.
3:43:58Right.
3:43:59So this keeps them, if the deal wouldn't go over the back of that tax, graduation, property, some of these other things, this keeps them off dollars.
3:44:09My God, in the calendar trip, whatever it is, what you need in the present time.
3:44:15And the main thing that we do sometimes is actually punch one down the wall.
3:44:23We will have an announcement on Vietnam, assuming the world of Paris will be possible.
3:44:33It's real, it's a real possibility.
3:44:34It's like one of the citizens said, half, 50% possible, but there is a not possible.
3:44:40So it depends on what happens on the other hand.
3:44:44What I'd like to do is to start getting out into the business arena.
3:45:09the idea that you, in the creation, are actively looking into the whole problem, technically.
3:45:14Can you do that?
3:45:16Sure.
3:45:17Alright, get that out there.
3:45:19I'll say it if they ask me, come on.
3:45:20But I want you to get that out there.
3:45:22And another thing that I can say is that you might ask, another very effective way to do it, is you might ask, maybe, call on the phone,
3:45:3140 or 50 top business students should do at the company.
3:45:35You say, the president was asking for tax reform on the business side.

Nixon, Connally & Shultz on Busing and Wage-price freeze

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