Nixon & Kissinger on People's Republic of China and Mao Zedong

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I just wanted to send you a memo of the I've reviewed the thing a little more and I'm beginning to think this is a good summary of what we know.

I don't believe that

the embassies in both Paris, the Chinese embassy, in both Paris and .

.

Denied it.

Denied it, yeah.

Technically, if it were dead, they wouldn't build up so slowly.

It would have got to be something with the bodies.

It would be too risky for them.

What about the, uh, the only thing I know from the news summary is that Joe had canceled his forum.

It was never announced, Mr. President.

Quite the contrary thing.

Announced that the visit of the Foreign Trade Minister to Paris was pending.

He says it shows not availability to several foreign delegations.

Oh, yes, there was.

When I had foreign visits, they announced it was two visits and thirty-nine foot a few days.

But he was seen last publicly on September 20th.

The two most likely possibilities are either that Mao was ill or that Zhou is purging his opponents.

And that makes sense for this reason, because the power of the military is down in the zone of the world right now at the airport.

The airport is the most radical element

where it's clear that it's the Cultural Revolution.

Now, if Sho is coaching the Cultural Revolution, the way to keep the air force under control is to prevent it from flying at all.

Because if they really feared an attack by the Soviet Union, they could put the army under the order.

But the army is not under the order.

I would especially like this public that you asked for.

Oh, hell no, I'm not going to get into public situations at all.

I don't have the thinking about the terms of, you know, I'm just going to dance around trying to live with it.

I think, Michael, just some of the things on why we're doing it in long-range terms.

I think, in fact, it's now appealing to me also, one reason they wanted to announce it so late,

Why was it counted so late as to that I was there before anyone could call that?

If you announced it three weeks ahead of time, or had sent some of his opponents, could you do it again exactly?

You mean assuming that there is a fight?

I think there is a fight.

You think there's a fight even on Tuesday?

You think Mao may be alive?

I think Mao may be alive, but I think still it's good for his opponents.

because there are numbers, and there's clearly something going on.

And I don't think it's Mao's death.

You see, they've had a lot of public articles against Mao.

In May 16th, there was the extreme group of the Cultural Revolution.

The two leaders of that Cultural Revolution group that is the public bureau, Chen Fu Tao and Huang Chen, have not appeared in public since March.

It says here, the Japanese News Service Kyoto said, contrary to Hong Kong reports, preparations are going ahead for the North Pole service in the elevated mountains to the State Department.

But what they have said is that it is proven that they are moving into a new title, Senate-ready, and it has no significance.

That's what they said.

Thank you.

I don't, I think if it is a purge, it is more likely to be our guys on the other end, having the other end.

He chose guys.

He chose guys, and chose to get a commanding down the hatchet, rather than the officers.

Because the Air Force would be the most radical, and they're out of the play, but he stood down.

And he controlled civil aviation, civil aviation has to resume.

See, what this means is that the Air Force will have civil aviation engines on them.

See, so they cannot do... Of course, one other thing, Henry, is that I've noticed that, look, of course, we have to notice these things, because, as I say, men die.

You know, if the judges of the Corps would resign, or will, or will open this week, and it's been happening here.

But, on the other hand, which has their... That's Black, Harlan.

Harlan's going to be down here.

Harlan's going to be there.

The chairman's alone.

That's no help to us.

He's basically a good man for the security.

I was on the floor.

what he does and what he thinks about it.

Coming back to this thing, what I meant is that this China thing, you know, I mean, they've been talking about doing this about what big things in China for a long time, so I just, I don't think we ought to get into it.

The reason it's hype over now is because of our visit.

Everybody knows that we're... Did you see what that asshole Reischauer said?

I'd recommend my new summary, solid rules.

Now, the son of a bitch has been advocating the normalizing of PT for years.

The son of a bitch has been invited to the Japanese, of course.

But he knows goddamn well that if we'd have talked to the Japanese, we'd have never had to miss it.

He's been invited, and he knows better than we had as much as he did.

He knows all of the Japanese, but he's trying to be smart.

No, he's just trying to be smart.

All of them.

Well, I don't know.

I must say, most of the Chinese experts, the left wingers and that group of things, at least, they don't know what to do.

And they're not like that.

They don't go that way.

The next time, the more I think of this addressment box, the addressment announcement is going to be held when it's going to be held.

Well, it will knock the hell out of, well, frankly, Henry, the criminologist.

I could call him out.

Oh.

Well, Belden is not a candidate.

Belden is just a co-technician who's in a degree against this part of the establishment.

But tell me, Thompson, who honestly believes that the leaders of the Russian people were just utterly shocked?

You know, it would be a very nice gesture to call it, but, you know, Thompson is dying, you know.

Don't give him the freedom to give up the day he announced this happening.

All right, good.

I'm happy to play with you.

Yes, you asked me some questions.

How about having Bollinger Group?

Yeah, Bollinger Pumps, 15192.

I want to talk about this problem with the meeting with the Russians.

Oh, hell yes.

But you see, if I get called from the States, for example, wouldn't it be a good idea to take it in Canada?

to advise them to come to the U.S. and to be sent to the U.S. because they don't have the passport or not made it?

Never.

They know what happened to us, but you don't.

I know exactly.

It shows that they are not even dreaming.

It shows, too.

It shows, too, that, of course, they have no reason to dream.

It shows how stupid the bastard is.

They want to go back and have me make the same mistake Johnson made.

They say the brass were important.

It was a disaster.

And it shows that the public likes more time... Another thing too, Henry, going into a meeting with Kosygin now, without planning, would be the worst thing to do.

And also, it would screw the Chinese.

It's wrong from every point of view to screw the Chinese.

It was not the right time.

It's the wrong man to talk to.

It's not a true level.

It's repeating something that's already been done in this world.

It's drawn from every point of view, and I mention it all the time.

I know, it's great.

A, they're small-timers, and B, if they trapped you with precarious intelligence, they'd be leaking it.

The way I guess you want us to handle this now is after I've talked to Romeo and I, after a degree of interest, I'll ask you and Rogers to come in alone.

And I'll tell you what Rogers did.

Look, uh, he was just like, been hanging in there for a few years, getting the information, and I decided to do an autopsy on him.

Fair enough.

And that, that way, that autopsy was top secret.

Well, you see, Rogers, Rogers feels that he knows something about the summit because he knew about it in the fall.

Oh, it makes, because I don't think he's going to be shot.

No, he's promised.

He'll know goddamn well something's been going on.

Well, but his ego is such, Mr. President, that he doesn't care.

As long as I'm out, he doesn't care.

And I don't understand about hearing him.

Thank God.

But anyway, let me ask you something else.

If the administration succeeds, there'll be enough glory for all of us.

And if it doesn't succeed, it's no longer a memorable character.

Well, nobody knows.

Where will this country be?

That's the question.

It's been a very good crisis in this country.

I have a couple of them, but one thing, I want to ask you about the other matter.

I noted in the paper that was read to me about a disturbing story.

The host of the 28 out of 31 senators called on to cancel the election on a direct basis.

Disturbed ambassadors.

They said it's happening.

Jesus Christ, they talk about free society in the election.

I have more control of the Senate than that.

And I noticed that Bruce had gotten away with it, but I don't know what the...

I have a first table here from Huckard, from Haig, and he says that he thinks the situation, domestically, is under substantial control.

Substantial control.

But Henry, I feel that it is, because I'll tell you, the reason I feel that it is, I would think that the press guys, it seems to me, are reaching terribly to try to say that the things that are not for urban all, but the most many of them are written, is to say that it's likely to get worse.

That's what most of them are writing.

You know what I mean?

That's right.

It's a new press conference.

It's a tremendous event.

It was a tremendous challenge.

We got the new record of it for it.

I think we should wait.

They're holding a press conference today.

When are we going to cancel?

When Porter begins to leave, we should.

Porter is a little bit of an equal beaver.

He wants to offer to meet with it.

We had come separately in order to receive prisoner of war discussions.

That's a very bad thing to do now.

We've always refused to meet with him without having his side down for it.

That's why they move on, the prisoner of war thing.

They won't move on.

We want to keep ground on that.

Our position is we'll meet with them in the presence of Saigon.

Yeah.

Henry, I have an idea.

First, with regard to the situation in Vietnam, do you think that it's relevantly stable?

But I will, you know, we have to .

Yes, yes, yes.

He's out there.

He's got a staff of 5,000 .

Their judgment is that it's just relatively safe.

And I would think, I would hope that this strike on the North would help a lot.

You know, you think about it.

One of the reasons you think.

Oh, yes.

Strike, this is a strike on the trade boom to both U.S. and Africa.

U.S. and Africa.

That's the reason I want to hit another time, I think.

Why wait until they're after it?

Well, all right, wait until their press conference.

Why wait until after their... Let's go ahead even if they can't do it.

No, they can't do it until 48 hours anyway.

I know.

But even...

I don't care what they say at their press conference.

So they scream.

They can.

That's right.

I do.

But I think that's right.

Basically, it's not North Vietnam or anything like that.

No man's land above the sea 30 miles from the crisis zone.

Isn't that right?

That's right.

Yeah, the strike was a push from her out.

I'm glad I was able to get someone to help me.

She said, he is lacking a lot of the skillset.

I said, now look, can't he have a talk with me and get any of her sentences?

I said, well, it's too late to tell him.

And to lay the wood for that son of a bitch.

Well, if anything happens, he goes out.

That's what these people do.

You know, that's the way it is.

God damn it, if I were there, I'd even send Agnew out to talk to him.

Agnew's a great admirer.

I'd see him now.

God damn it.

He'd talk to you.

I'd see Bill Goose today.

You know, I'd talk to him.

I would start talking to him.

I don't want to talk to him.

And I guess I'm husky.

Well, he wandered all over the place, and he vacillated everyone, and he did not save anyone.

Well, I had to meet him because Connelly's closing the factory.

Before you go into that, I had another idea.

I think we ought to consider rather than that, because we don't have many clothes in strike, and we need to buy all the time we can on the amount.

We'll start with that policy.

That's actually correct.

I don't think we should put it all in.

I think we should parse out what we're going to say on the next tribunal.

I think that we ought to understand by ourselves.

What I have suggested is this.

This is the big point.

Why can't we make the no draftee announcement?

I mean, aren't we in the position now that we can say no gratitude?

How close are we?

If you listen to the military, you're not going to know.

In the military, you'd never be as good as there was one, I know.

I wouldn't make it now.

Right now, it's supposed to be too far.

How about the local coalition?

I'm thinking of something.

Could we do it by, say, the October 7th, the time I announce the new economic menu at that press conference?

What I'm thinking, Henry, is always keep one step ahead of them on Vietnam.

That'll be a hell of a story by itself.

You see what I mean?

I don't think it's needed to gossip the other story where we say the end of ground combat and 50,000 more troops coming from other countries.

Except that that will be so little.

I mean, don't do a thing we weren't going to do anyway, but I mean the purposes of it in terms of announcement.

Break it out.

Maybe we make proof announcements once a month.

Maybe that's another thing we'd like to do, rather than announcements.

Maybe we announce.

Maybe we announce in January and in November a pull-down to 100,000 and say we'll have another announcement in the next little bit of time.

Buys a little more time.

Now that doesn't get by my problem of what's going to happen to Congress when it leaves.

and that we really ought to have a final announcement before I have to make a statement to do it.

I think I have to have that before the State of the Union.

That's what I'm saying.

But you see, the State of the Union has to know that the gap has that bridge to what I have to run on.

The final announcement I've got to make to that time.

And also, if the Russians, when we go through with that other gas line, if they see a deadline coming, then we won't have that with the Russians.

My chapter is 15.

Oh, yeah.

We'll have to settle one way or the other.

I see.

And so you can't reveal it then one way or the other.

They said I'd have to edit out or accept it.

Right.

And I don't know if my instinct tells me to not let it go down for a while.

It's too dangerous for that.

Oh, one thing.

This one thing.

You cannot get that far behind the totem pole if they cannot believe it.

It's nothing to have the poles go up and down beyond that.

Nevertheless, so they know that we're going to be a hell of a close race in any event.

And they also know that with the Chinese trip and the Russian trip ensemble, that's going to help them.

It's going to help you, but it's going to hurt them in the sense that they cannot have an attitude of common and also the economy.

Now, coming back to cotton, we had a good meeting this morning, because before you walked in, I grabbed and showed the company, the company shared the meeting, so it was working on the trade in the situation that we wanted to.

And what we had to do,

We basically all agree on how to proceed.

In response to the question of the economic club, we'll make a general statement about philosophy, what we're trying to achieve.

If somebody is preparing and interacting and preparing, if they're all working well, that's good.

And we are meeting again at 8 in the morning tomorrow, and we'll have it at 9.

And Conley will be the first political person.

I thought you could say that.

I talked yesterday to Cromer.

Yeah, and to a Dutch friend of mine who happened to be in the country, who used to be in the deputy department, is a great friend of the United States.

He said, go and get me the usual song.

He said, I said, now listen, Robert, now you've talked to these British guys, they're talking to you now, they're friends.

If you were in my shoes and your president called you in about this, knowing I'm not an expert, would you recommend that he give up the search on you?

He said, no.

He said, you asked me as a friend.

British ambassador may give it up as a threat, and may you hold on to the search, but offer something for which you will give it up if they do it, but make us do it first, because otherwise we lose the bargain.

And that was quite interesting.

You know, a lot of it is make us do it first, but let's say, for example, if we say, if they accept a genuine float, not a controlled float,

And if they help us with the stewardship, then we can give them the surcharge.

But make sure that the Europeans deliver those for the surcharge.

Oh, yeah.

SSI.

He said that.

It's a little Danish, a little Danish bastard.

I don't know if you can recall, it was the silliest time, but he said he thought this would be the best in France, which made artists admire Degas, funny thing, how he, as you might imagine, went on to do a campaign about how hard the China mission was, what Degas felt he should do, and was so admired so much, and that Degas, you know, not either someone who's going to approach the world properly,

But then he went on on this.

He said, you're governor, right?

He said, we're a small country, and the rest of the people, we helped the people .

Now it's time for us to .

He said, you can't .

Then I talked to a Dutchman.

He said that the Dutchman said, said we had to change our .

because in every country, there are, there's a pro-American group under attack by the New York police and by the left.

Yeah.

We can't just tell them we are in a fight with the death of a human being.

Right.

So what we are suggesting is that tomorrow we make some threats in our system.

Right.

This is not a game in which one guy wins and the other loses.

Right.

Everybody wins.

And what you are trying to do is in the interest of everybody to do it on cooperative basis

Wouldn't it be good to throw in that little difference of just to be on the high ground?

First, I think I should reiterate what I've said, that a strong United States economically is essential if we're going to be international, rather than isolated.

It's a weak United States that's driving us into an isolationist position.

And that is true.

The second point, I think, is a nice little point that Paul Hoffman said.

That is, he said, the dream of one world politically is unrealistic, but we have to work to develop one world economically because that is something that we realize is something that is possible.

It's not a bad idea, it's excellent.

but also the idea that is looking at the success of the Marshall Plan with all of its people who screw around about it.

It did make Europe one Europe economically, and as a result of that, Europe now is fighting each other.

Now, the analogy really is not as clear as Paul makes out.

You well and I know that probably the Germans and the British were trading more with each other than any other nations in the world.

In fact, they fought World War I and World War II, correct?

But it was completely treacherous.

You don't want to get involved.

And I will say that at the end of the trip.

I want you to work that into my statement.

I want to be able to say, to build up on, you know, such and such a date where the IMF will make state arguments, they will have technical terms.

Next week, I can say, we will make an argument.

I would like to settle down on that as of the day I'll speak to the general press.

And what we have to get to in that is

We're meeting again in the morning, and then you might consider calling the captain together on the drive in.

It's like telling them all there should be total business.

And that can't be what they believe.

If they understand this can't be right about anything they say.

because he's .

What we think about how to do it, Mr. President, is the best way to have a thing with people you and Congress are calling on.

Other than calling on Mr. Pickney, I know he won't pick me.

Well, I come to our surprise when we talk to him.

I'll try.

You mentioned the Haldeman.

I think we better have a captain writing for that purpose.

It'll be short, very short.

And immediately after, I'd like to have Arthur comment.

Okay.

And this will be the second.

How do you confuse?

I've given some other answers.

No, but I will be the second.

He's written a memo for you, which I quote on, which he wants to set up his own group.

I've told him to go ahead and set up his own group, and they'll use the process, which is that the assistant secretary will work, and they'll test you instead.

And at the right moment, you'll bring him in to a larger meeting, and the four of us who were in the meeting this morning will take the time to test that we can carry out any kind of work in India.

It was quite a good process.

Peter should really ought to stay under the International Monetary Act.

What he really ought to concentrate on is reading more of the stuff that he's been talking about, you know, proactively, what kind of, what should the United States pay, you know, that sort of thing.

You know, these sort of things.

What do you think?

But I think that Peterson doesn't know how to work the bureaucracy.

He doesn't know how to bring things to a point.

And he's more a sort of vague idea than a big...

Some of it is quite good, but...

Some of it is screwed on by time.

I hear where Claypool is correct, and yet at times he's very perceptive.

He's extremely perceptive.

But the point is...

Frankly, first of all, I should run ideas by you to which he's not ready to accept an affirmative answer.

You are not a sounding board for hard ideas.

I've got no time to think it through.

Secondly, he shouldn't expose himself so much with his own stuff to the bureaucracy.

His responsibility is to you, not to be the bright boy in town.

Right.

Did you

Did you incidentally, by any chance, have a chance in this meeting, or would you have a chance to discuss the Japanese situation?

I can't say tomorrow.

I didn't want to put too much on that.

We're on a bad track, you know.

He is coming tomorrow.

Fine.

I'll see you next week.

Don't put too much reliance on that.

How about Rogers has got to do with the food?

And just say, now look here, we've got to, we've just got to lay it on.

They were planning to, the technical people are pressing for you to trade with the enemy now.

That's how this goes.

Maybe we can buy another 30 days, but that's all.

Maybe.

I tell them two weeks.

Two weeks.

But here's what we need, Henry.

We have, at the very least, by October 15th, have got to tell the Texan people, we've got to tell them that a new negotiation

that will succeed is in process.

We may not be able to have it ready, but I mean, you see my point?

I would have to, since this is a chapter that you've done, is that it's going to be fast, and it's a tally, and seeing how it's going to be done.

No, but this time, I would say, October 15th, this is going to fly, and we've just got to move on.

We've got to move.

and give us something.

You've got to give us something.

You've just got to do it for, this could, you know, this, it's not an echo, it could bring tissue, it could bring something down.

I was a chap, and he said, I'm not going to let it.

I don't regret it.

I talk on the national television, I talk on the national television, I talk on the national television, I talk on the national television, I talk on the national television, I talk on the national television, I talk on the national

South of where we've been staying down, playing a common national anthem.

If the Chinese don't blow their stack at that, see, shows opponents can say that we just are playing with it.

But it's sad.

I just will never understand what was in it for us.

Well, I don't know what the hell was it for us.

You know, we had it all worked out as to what we were going to do.

What in the name of God was State trying to do here?

What the hell were they trying to do?

So do you think they were trying to screw up the Chinatown?

They don't give a damn about the Chinatown.

Whatever their immediate objective is, they go and get past them.

And Yakov's doing it.

And Phil's just going to do it.

I told him a hundred times to stay.

Don't do another issue.

He said he had to go on television with the Japanese press.

I would have said to the Japanese press what you said.

It's your problem.

You have to decide it.

We've stayed in our position.

What you decide is your problem.

No, Bill wanted to get out there and wave a flag for, we're going to fight for Taiwan.

What my crisis is, he's talking about.

But he knows the next crisis.

He's been briefed.

He's still in line.

He knows what the realities are.

What my crisis is, he's trying to do it.

You know, there's actually some better than they were about the case.

I mean, there's consequences.

I'll tell you what it is.

It's a problem all the time.

It's more deeper, far deeper.

The problem is that a lot of people don't know.

I mean, we've got a lot of great problems over there.

We're terribly frustrated.

But they know goddamn well they're not at the center of action.

They're not running things.

Correct.

How would you feel?

Well, except I would ask myself, now, why is it?

And what do I have to do?

I mean, they are staking a claim in terms of bureaucratic positions.

The only claim anyone has on the president is in terms of loyalty and what you do for the president.

No one has the right to demand that the President should be loyal to the dead, or to death, and held to be very loyal to Bill, and Karen, and everyone who holds the oil, and everybody, including Kimmel.

Let me ask you to do this, that I will understand, and they will give me a statement I can make with regard.

You'll have the financial on this, and with regard, if you heard something, then I'm going to do it.

I'm going to do something.

You'll have the financial on this.

Ah, coming back first to the Vietnamese, then.

Despite the running around that Senate thing, it's a curious thing.

Why would the goddamn Senate out there piss off the election of Cuba or Canada or whatever the other thing is?

Well, the other thing is, I just haven't seen a final report on what history was.

Yes.

The other thing is that

Well, he's going to promise that today.

I know.

I wonder whether we should put the federal saving that for the negotiation.

Yes, maybe.

Maybe.

It's going to last this year.

I want to kick that goddamn thing in the ass and tell Pete that, look, if he goes against you, he goes along.

And I mean that.

I mean, let me say this.

If, this is the point I was referring to, but if he should overthrow me and he goes in,

Believe me, then I think we ought to get out of here, you know, because these groups are untrustworthy.

We can't build around Q.

We can never build around Q.

He can't come in.

He can overthrow it, but I don't think he can take it.

I think if Q was overthrown, it would be somebody's idea.

So then I think we ought to get out of here.

He's trying to just duck the wind.

That's real practice.

Better practice than you want it, Henry.

I think we can.

Even the Cambodians are advancing now.

I saw a little less groups still.

They're advancing.

In fact, they may be getting overconfident now because they know the Vietnamese are just not that strong anymore.

They may be saving themselves for a big club.

But, uh...

They picked up about

Maybe 2,000 tons of supplies to load, 1,500 tons of supplies.

Now, that's not decisive, but it means they have to transport that stuff in again before they can launch it again.

And you know they don't leave that dam off that way.

You're in Earth 3, I mean.

And day after day, we get those reports on how many guns, how many mortars, how many tons of rice.

Did you know that we have not done that?

We'd be dead at home here though.

That horrible meeting we were taking, that was the only house meeting we were getting involved in.

I kept repeating it.

We kept putting it out.

I didn't.

I had to sit back and take 15 facts after those two months.

I remember reporting and both did a great job working on it.

But if we hadn't done that campaign, we'd be done.

And then everyone would ridicule you for not having done it, but for the nasty reason that you had to... ...serve... ...and let it go... ...and... ...and... ...and...

If they should fix it, set it.

Because, you know, if you might do that, we have to change it at 9.

It's at 10 a.m., but we could move it to 9 p.m., which is better for the night.

I just want to go casually on television, but I don't have my mind.

Well, it isn't all that important.

I'm not going to seek, reach for anything.

Well, but that's in your mind.

If you could just put a traffic...

Then the following week, would you be going on to, would you hold another press conference?

No.

I interpret what he meant.

It's very important for me to interpret what he meant in the proper context so that we don't have a state screwing around.

The state will try desperately to get in on that.

The state is going to try to say China is a divided house.

Well, the state forces into it and all that sort of thing.

And I don't ask you to do it.

You know, for the director of the theater.

That's why I want to be able to say, well, we've discussed it three times.

I've told Mr. President, incidentally, that one, that it might be a bad thing to take from his children in that room.

It's better than in the room.

Well, you can do it either way.

Why am I opening it?

A, it's got the historic significance of the boy not alive.

I believe we might do that, but I think it's a great suggestion, and that's the way to get breaking of the rock.

That way, you see, any other way you send Dobrynin over to Raja, they'll direct the credit no matter how you do it.

If Dobrynin comes in to me, then you have historical kittens, and then they'll be arguing.

You have a kitten to Raja, this is number one.

Gromyko brings it to you.

No one can argue with this.

It's a special science.

Well, also, we have to have in mind...

He was right here when I saw Gerlino before when we talked about the summit before.

So it's very logical to bring him directly to me.

That's why I told him every time we do this, the way it should be.

And that's safe.

If they stop taking the tape, it keeps you out just from doing what he does in China.

I'm not saying that he'd make you do it.

And I don't know how they could go to China and go out and do it.

I suppose the state people, you know, you know, they, they, they, they, they really know how it happened.

Mr. President, if the press believed that Robertson had any confidence, it would have made him the white liberal, and I think it would have made him the liberal of his administration.

They know that you know more, that you've forgotten more than you've ever learned, and that no one can take it.

I mean, he gives them a real opportunity, but the great liberals, but they just don't believe he's confident enough to have done it.

So, I don't think, deep down, that's what drives them crazy.

You know, he did it.

If they thought you hadn't, then the stories would all read.

Considering what is being put out,

We ran around one of the gardens last week about how we screwed up the pan by not parking it.

But what he carried in his driver's pass, it slobbered around a little bit.

What's he mean by what he did, by the trial?

Yes, he said it was a trial.

It was Castro, you know, he did a private interview with a Canadian left-wing journalist.

Yeah.

He said the most historic move of the last 30 years was the treason of John Lennon.

He said he considered you a psychopath, and he got that right.

John Lennon, he said he hasn't seen any improvement in relations with Congress over the years.

They really, they're a real objection.

They're a real objection.

It's not on substance at all, it's on power.

Their real objection is that I was here.

Isn't that a terrible reflection?

Hell, if I were on the outside and I was there whenever they did anything worthwhile, I'd praise the bastards.

They won't do it.

If Kennedy had sent his country director for China to Hong Kong to meet with another 20 men in China, it wouldn't be considered a historic event.

That's right.

Courageous.

Charisma.

But I don't believe, Mr. President, that they're going to get anywhere because the public doesn't like the Japs.

Who likes the Japs?

You're right.

The Japs, listen, there's a hell of a lot of Americans who hate the Japs.

They let them cry.

They always remember that.

Take Mitchell.

Mitchell hates the Japs.

Absolutely hates them.

I must say, I didn't dislike them, and I can't hear about it until they cry.

They're very easy to just walk in.

Well, I do think they're trickier than I thought.

They're going to start playing ball.

But you tell your little emissary, IP, just come as I said.

Sorry, well, the president told the shooter that the 15th was, that it was, that's the date now.

We've got 15.

Something terrible's going to happen.

We've got to get the key sheet and the entries of our initials to a country.

We've got to do this.

We don't want this to happen.

We want to go along.

IP, tough as hell.

We didn't.

Okay.

Good luck.

Okay.

We'll get to it.

I'm glad you're on this.

You know, don't you find it's a pleasure to work with him?

Oh, yes.

He's a man.

You know, I would stick to just some paragon with some of our other cabinet people.

I'm going to do it on account of the strong view of what's going on with John and Lush and everything besides.

He goes.

He doesn't care who's going to get their credit.

Every time...

We have to be sensitive about what makes the announcement.

The country's always thinking about it.

Every minute.

That's the first and only response thing, because if you do well, the country does well.

Who the hell gives a damn about what a cabinet member was and spoke at the administration of the president?

And given our domestic situation, we've got to have the president on the scene.

It's for the sake of authority in this country.

But we can't ask, it doesn't do anybody any good to create the image that the president was Bush.

It's not true, but it doesn't help our crisis if it wasn't for him.

No, I think that's a point to make.

Overlook that we were, we never did anything right.

We were kids that screamed we didn't believe it when we did it.

We did it reluctantly, you know, all that.

That's what the president's got to do anyway.

But what killed the grads is that deep down they know who did it.

They couldn't possibly write it any other way.

They wouldn't think any other way about it.

Nixon & Kissinger on People's Republic of China and Mao Zedong

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on September 22, 1971

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