{"conversationCode":"281-038","tapeNumber":281,"conversationNumber":38,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-281-038","startDateTime":"1971-10-21T17:58:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-10-21T18:25:00.000Z","startDate":"21-Oct-1971","startTime":"1:58 PM","endDate":"21-Oct-1971","endTime":"2:25 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Woods, Rose Mary; Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\");","description":"On October 21, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, and H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:58 pm to 2:25 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 281-038 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 281-38\n\nDate: October 21, 1971\nTime: 1:58 pm - 2:25 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Rose Mary Woods.\n\n**********************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal Returnable]\n[Duration: 1m 19s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n     Supreme Court nominations\n          -Herschel H. Friday\n               -Civil rights record\n          -American Bar Association [ABA]\n\n     Speech revisions\n\n     Justices' responsiveness to the President\n           -Judicial philosophy\n           -Chief Justice Warren E. Burger\n           -Hugo L. Black\n           -John M. Harlan\n           -Walter Lippmann quote\n           -Word changes\n           -William H. Rehnquist\n                 -Robert H. Jackson\n                 -Credentials\n                 -Wording\n\nThe President talked with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman at an unknown time between 1:58 pm and\n2:25 pm.\n\n[Conversation No. 281-38A]\n\n     Notification of the President's selections\n          -Burger\n                -John N. Mitchell\n\n[End of telephone conversation]\n\n     Speech revisions\n          -Instructions for Woods\n\nWoods left at 2:25 pm.","filename":["281-038-splice.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:58:01","tapeEnd":"03:10:13","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Woods, Rose Mary","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")"],"prevCode":"281-037","nextCode":"281-039","tapeTranscriptFile":"281a.mp3,281b.mp3,281c.mp3","transcript":[{"start":10707.48,"end":10708.33,"text":"Swords, please."},{"start":10732.21,"end":10734.59,"text":"He said, no, no, no, I won't be able to do that."},{"start":10734.65,"end":10735.71,"text":"Now I gotta work first."},{"start":10736.03,"end":10742.68,"text":"And then I want you to bring, yeah, your bell doesn't ring, so you come over now, please."},{"start":10915,"end":10915.52,"text":"Hell yes."},{"start":10916.92,"end":10919.3,"text":"That's why they were against Friday, because of civil rights."},{"start":10919.32,"end":10921.4,"text":"Nothing to do with their legal qualities."},{"start":10921.82,"end":10922.56,"text":"It's not that easy."},{"start":10923.38,"end":10927.17,"text":"That's why the American virus kept these two on point until they were knocked off on the plane."},{"start":10934.8,"end":10946.65,"text":"It would be a total deterioration of our Constitution."},{"start":10967.43,"end":10969.59,"text":"And then, no, no, it's certain."},{"start":10969.61,"end":10974.33,"text":"By judicial philosophy, I do not mean agreeing with the President on every issue."},{"start":10975.25,"end":10984.04,"text":"It would be a total rejuvenation of our constitutional system."},{"start":10986.58,"end":10995.01,"text":"If judges on the Supreme Court, or if judges on the Supreme Court, or any federal court for that matter,"},{"start":11000.06,"end":11001.03,"text":"The puppet's on a string."},{"start":11002.05,"end":11002.89,"text":"Pulled by the president."},{"start":11002.91,"end":11006.81,"text":"You got that?"},{"start":11006.83,"end":11009.59,"text":"That comes at the bottom of the page."},{"start":11010.01,"end":11011.8,"text":"That page is missing."},{"start":11011.82,"end":11012.92,"text":"It's on page two."},{"start":11012.94,"end":11014.94,"text":"We're on March 29."},{"start":11014.96,"end":11017.78,"text":"It goes over to the top of the next page."},{"start":11017.9,"end":11022.47,"text":"The next thing is when I apply the chief of district."},{"start":11022.53,"end":11024.27,"text":"Before the second paragraph begins, this does not mean"},{"start":11025.47,"end":11040.52,"text":"The judges who adhere to this philosophy will find that they always agree in their interpretation of the Constitution."},{"start":11040.54,"end":11045.26,"text":"We have an excellent example."},{"start":11045.28,"end":11048.14,"text":"We have an excellent example of this in the record of the two judges."},{"start":11048.92,"end":11055.09,"text":"This is Mr. Augustine Black as the head of the state."},{"start":11055.6,"end":11080.24,"text":"Most observers, when they retire from the bench, when they retire from the court, most observers label Mr. Justice Black as a liberal and Mr. Justice Harlan as a conservative."},{"start":11080.26,"end":11080.78,"text":"They disagree."},{"start":11081.95,"end":11086.39,"text":"It is true that they disagreed in many cases."},{"start":11090.75,"end":11099.98,"text":"They disagreed sharply in many cases."},{"start":11100.06,"end":11105.66,"text":"I will say that both were constitutional."},{"start":11111.9,"end":11114,"text":"It may be charged."},{"start":11114.02,"end":11114.8,"text":"It may be charged."},{"start":11115.5,"end":11116.86,"text":"They were conservatives."},{"start":11116.88,"end":11129.45,"text":"So this is proof that only in a traditional, not political sense."},{"start":11133.72,"end":11135.1,"text":"During my campaign for the presidency,"},{"start":11140.13,"end":11166.9,"text":"The thing is, 21 months ago, the peace forces must not be denied the legal tools they need to protect innocent people."},{"start":11174.74,"end":11176.39,"text":"We're after the word tomorrow."},{"start":11179.05,"end":11180.77,"text":"Yes."},{"start":11186.4,"end":11187.12,"text":"Back to the next."},{"start":11205.19,"end":11206.23,"text":"You see what I mean?"},{"start":11206.25,"end":11227.28,"text":"Put in this B after the words tomorrow and then follow where it was caused from here."},{"start":11227.47,"end":11229.97,"text":"Then comes C right after that."},{"start":11238.83,"end":11266.11,"text":"He was then awarded one of the highest honors, a law graduate, and received, he was chosen as law clerk for Mr. Robert, for Mr. Justice Robert H. Dent, one of the most outstanding members of the court."},{"start":11266.21,"end":11267.37,"text":"And then he is discharged."},{"start":11268.36,"end":11269.72,"text":"with such great distinction."},{"start":11269.78,"end":11286.47,"text":"With Attorney General and I."},{"start":11286.51,"end":11291.17,"text":"Who served the federal government."},{"start":11301.18,"end":11311.86,"text":"Mr. President, he has discharged William Reckless."},{"start":11311.94,"end":11326.41,"text":"He is a top expert in constitutional law, very top, as a constitutional lawyer,"},{"start":11329.65,"end":11356.7,"text":"We'll add distinction and excellence in the highest degree to the Supreme Court of the United States."},{"start":11358.78,"end":11374.16,"text":"That's what certain places have sent us here."},{"start":11374.18,"end":11380.58,"text":"We're growing rather than maintaining tendency."},{"start":11380.7,"end":11387.61,"text":"We can sometimes even bite off the base over the years, but the world is pretty quick."},{"start":11390.79,"end":11403.22,"text":"Throughout our history, we've had many historic and sometimes violent events over the years of our history."},{"start":11403.78,"end":11407.85,"text":"Throughout our history, a lot of the roles were important."}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":10681,"end":11413,"startMethod":"llm-alignment","endMethod":"llm-alignment"},"transcriptConfidence":"high","transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with Rose Mary Woods and H. R. Haldeman to discuss ongoing judicial vacancies and the broader implications of his Supreme Court selections. The group reviewed candidate credentials—specifically those of Herschel H. Friday and William H. Rehnquist—while evaluating the judicial philosophies of current and prospective Justices. Additionally, Nixon provided Woods with instructions regarding specific revisions for upcoming speech materials.","topics":["Supreme Court nominations","Judicial philosophy","William H. Rehnquist","Herschel H. Friday","Speechwriting","White House staffing"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T13:12:45.186Z"},"topicSlugs":["supreme-court-nominations","judicial-philosophy","william-h-rehnquist","herschel-h-friday","speechwriting","white-house-staffing"],"audioDurationSec":735,"audioFiles":[{"file":"281-038-splice.mp3","bytes":11760579,"durationSec":735.01,"bitrate":128005,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:31.830Z","originalFilename":["281a.mp3","281b.mp3","281c.mp3"],"spliceSource":{"spliceType":"bigtape","sourceFiles":["281b.mp3"],"cutStart":10679.5,"cutEnd":11414.5,"adjustedStart":10679.5,"adjustedEnd":11414.5,"boundaryMethod":"llm-alignment","confidence":"high","splicedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:31.830Z"},"transcriptPrev":{"segments":112,"replacedAt":"2026-09-18T14:14:07.157Z"},"audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/281-038-splice.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/281-038","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/281/conversation-281-038","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}