Conversation 282-026

TapeTape 282StartWednesday, October 20, 1971 at 4:23 PMEndWednesday, October 20, 1971 at 5:16 PMTape start time01:25:31Tape end time02:15:31ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Moore, Richard A.;  White House operator;  Mitchell, John N.;  Butterfield, Alexander P.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On October 20, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Richard A. Moore, White House operator, John N. Mitchell, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 4:23 pm to 5:16 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 282-026 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 282-26

Date: October 20, 1971
Time: 4:23 pm - 5:16 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Richard A. Moore.

     Greetings

     Supreme Court appointments
          -Leaks
               -White House staff
               -American Bar Association [ABA]
                     -Mildred L. Lillie
                     -John N. Mitchell
                     -Women candidates
                           -Qualifications
                           -Public reaction
          -Lewis F. Powell
               -Age
               -Qualifications
               -Southern background
          -Howard H. Baker, Jr.
               -Qualifications
                     -Law background
                     -Senate
                     -Age

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[Previous PRMPA Privacy (D) reviewed under deed of gift 04/15/219. Segment cleared for
release.]
[Privacy]
[282-026-w001]
[Duration: 24s]

       Supreme Court appointments
             -Howard H. Baker, Jr.
                    -Finances

**********************************************************************

     Supreme Court appointments
          -Supreme Court Justices
               -Finances
                    -William O. Douglas
                    -Outside income
          -Baker
               -Age
                    -Possible tenure
               -Contrasted with Potter Stewart
          -William H. Mulligan
               -Background qualifications
                    -New York
                    -Dean of Fordham Law School
                    -ABA
          -Powell
               -ABA's reaction
                    -Mulligan
          -ABA
          -Mulligan
     -Powell
-Moore's conversation with Mitchell
     -Analysis of candidates
           -Herschel H. Friday
           -Lillie
     -Tennessee
           -Baker
           -Civil rights
     -Congressional approval
-ABA
     -Ronald L. Ziegler
     -Press
     -Role in appointment process
     -Powell
     -Ziegler
-Powell
-Mulligan
     -Reaction by people in New York
     -Fordham Law School
     -Experience
     -Mitchell
     -John A. (“Jack”) Mulcahy
     -Qualifications
     -Powell
-Powell
-Baker
-William French Smith
     -Qualifications
           -Experience
     -John M. Harlan
           -Corporate law
     -California
     -Wife
           -Kansas City, 1968
-Powell and Smith
-William H. Rehnquist
     -Qualifications
           -Possible ABA reaction
     -Department of Justice position
     -Stanford Law School
     -Robert H. Jackson
     -Department of Justice position
     -ABA
     -Mitchell’s view
     -John W. Dean, III
     -Arizona
     -Barry M. Goldwater
     -Stanford
-Smith
     -Harvard
-Rehnquist
The President talked with White House operator at an unknown time between 4:21 pm and 4:44
pm.

[Conversation No. 282-26A]

[See Conversation No. 12-12]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Supreme Court appointments
          -Rehnquist
               -Age
               -Jackson
          -Department of Justice position
               -Compared with Byron R. ("Whizzer") White

The President talked with John N. Mitchell between 4:44 pm and 4:49 pm.

[Conversation No. 282-26B]

[See Conversation No. 12-13]

[End of telephone conversation]

          -Powell
                -Age
                -Length of term
                -Warren E. Burger
          -Leaks
                -John D. Ehrlichman
                -White House staff
          -Previous mistakes
          -Rehnquist
          -Qualifications of candidates
               -New Jersey
               -Illinois
               -Mulligan
               -Smith, Rehnquist
               -Baker
                      -Leonard Garment
          -Lowell P. Weicker, Jr.
          -Mulligan
               -Experience
          -William J. Brennan, Douglas
          -Powell and Baker
               -South
                      -J. Strom Thurmond
                      -Virginia, Tennessee
                      -Busing issue
          -Powell
          -Baker
          -Rehnquist
          -Smith
                -Ronald W. Reagan
          -Powell
          -Mitchell's forthcoming conversation with Lawrence E. Walsh
                -Lillie
          -Lillie
                -Earl Adams’ opinion
          -Possible appointment scenario
          -Powell
          -Baker
          -Women
                -The President's instructions to Mitchell
                -Sylvia Bacon
                      -Circuit Court
                -Law schools
          -Television announcement
                -Advantages compared with press conference
                -Contents of announcement
                      -Qualifications of appointments
                            -The President's philosophy
                                  -Powell
                                  -Rehnquist
                                        -Jackson
          -Jackson
                -Previous letter to the President
                      -David Capers [sp?]
                -Career
                      -Nuremberg trials
                      -Franklin D. Roosevelt
                      -Background

     Newsday articles
         -Moore’s view
         -Charles G. ("Bebe") Rebozo
         -Possible legal action
               -Moore’s view
         -Time magazine
         -Robert G. ("Bobby") Baker
         -The President's finances
               -Possible Ehrlichman statement
               -Law firm
               -Fisher Island stocks
                      -Sale
                      -Moore
                      -Sale
                      -Ehrlichman
         -Rebozo

******************************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Privacy (D) reviewed under deed of gift 04/15/219. Segment cleared for
release.]
[Privacy]
[282-026-w002]
[Duration: 15s]

     Newsday articles
         -Rebozo
               -Unknown man’s health

******************************************************************************

     Newsday articles
         -The President's finances
               -Real estate

     The President's schedule

Alexander P. Butterfield entered at 5:05 pm.

     Items for the President's signature
     Forthcoming White House event
          -Guest list
                 -Frank Shakespeare
                 -Donald M. Kendall

Butterfield left at 5:07 pm.

     Newsday articles
         -Rebozo

     Vietnam
          -Announcement
               -Prisoners of war [POWs]
          -Michael J. Mansfield amendment
               -POW issue
          -Possible bombing
          -People’s Republic of China [PRC] summit
          -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR] summit
          -Mary McGrory’s article
               -Henry A. Kissinger
                     -William P. Rogers

     Supreme Court nominees
          -Robert C. Byrd
                -Democrats
          -Lillie
                -Edmund G. ("Pat") Brown
          -Smith
                -Academic background

Moore left at 5:16 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

All right.
How do you do?
All right.
Sit down.
I was, uh...
I've taken this judge thing out of the hands of our staff, and for reasons you're well aware of, they're all teaching too much, and getting these poor masters to learn before we get to them, or else we'll be out against the EPA.
That's
The ABA today is probably going to come down negative on life.
So we'll see what's going on.
That's all about it?
Yeah.
Now, if that happens, the visual is full.
Well, this is all part of it.
We're going to say that.
It appears, you know, we are taking you to compete.
You're a party of mediocrities, of course, anybody who's a bar philosophy would be a mediocrity, probably.
But something that you said, and I don't want to give a too big a target, but as a result, we are now running by, on the southern side, Lou Powell.
He's 64 years old.
But...
He is a preeminent lawyer, you know.
I don't know.
I heard you just said that.
The President of the American Bar, and a great scholar, and writes for everything, and so forth and so on.
He's everybody's first choice from the South.
He's got a lot of gotcha.
We're only buying 10 years from him.
I'd like to see you have more protection than that.
I know, but we buy that.
in order to get something to help him.
So, the other one we're checking on, they don't do it, is Howard Baker.
Baker's practiced law, and a very good practice for 17 years, and was hard to teach, and was pretty good.
And he's six years and seven, 45 years of age.
You know, and I don't know, there are some who have been, and it's probably because he was, he was,
I said, well, for Christ's sake, the guy gets $60,000 a year for life, and he's working his life off.
It's not bad.
And when the people grow up, you know, the judges can make money.
They speak.
They get on their own.
It's right.
They do, although it's been discovered that, of course, I don't think that they told you that.
I'm not listening.
I'm trying to complain about it, of course.
But if he turns it down, I don't think he will buy it.
Yes, he will.
Well, I don't believe that.
If he takes it, though, you've then got a guy that's there 30 years and also a Republican around him, a potential candidate for chief justice.
because he's a much stronger personality than Potter's story.
He's a pleasant fellow.
I love Potter.
I know.
Potter's not a stand-up guy.
He's just a weak man.
He's a fine judge, but he's never going to be Chief Justice.
Let me go over that.
Now, the other possibility
Mulligan.
No.
Mitchell said, well, I'd say Mulligan's not the same as Norah, so he's not the same.
But look at his advantages.
From New York State, he's a Catholic.
He's throwing out those accredited and gladiator laws.
And he's dean of the Board of Law School for 15 years.
He taught law before that, and he's been on the circuit for a year.
Well...
And I said, how do they, how do they agree?
And he said, just qualify.
I said, very well, just qualify.
And I said, yes, I'm a judge.
But anything right, he said, you want to do something like that.
Now, my feeling, my point is that suppose that we get Powell, don't you think we could also wheel-pull him in?
I think it's a tandem thing.
I think that, you see, nobody, they can't piss on Powell.
I know that nobody can piss on Powell as being on the bar, the American bar, over there with the ecstasy, because he's one of the buildings.
I know.
I think, incidentally, they have boxed themselves a little, if you have a conservative, who their focus is emphasis on the high qualification professional distinction.
that they really had to stop themselves from attacking the man's philosophy.
And he came out as an order of quite a type of fella that was always preeminent and was always trying to be served by...
I was ordered... Well, I'm trying to say that I am not qualified for that.
Well, but...
Nevertheless, that's... You know what I mean.
Of course, but those bastards...
I remember saying a few years ago that one thing that bugged some of those fellas in Wall Street was that people that were there came...
brought to being vice-president at the time, who could have been better than they were in the law business.
I mean, you happen to have all the same things that they look for in terms of qualification.
It's part of their elite working.
It's snobbish, right?
Of course it is.
Snobbism is a major factor in this whole far approach.
The liberalism plus snobbism becomes, for me, incriminating.
Let me ask you this.
The PR standpoint, do you think we could wheelbullet him, if I will come?
You know, the Attorney General, uh, said he was rather happy to ask me this question.
I didn't know that, I didn't know that you were, but I know that it was his, his, uh, and we didn't get, uh, it was too deeply, I, uh, I said to him, I would like to know who the other one is.
I think it's a matter of packaging.
Two together, I said, if it was, if it was a Friday or Lily, I think that there would rub off, there'd be a rub off, there would be a bump, and then say that,
Well, no, the other one will be either Powell.
No, we'll get Powell and Baker.
That's now the outlook of both of them.
You wouldn't let out two?
I mean, Tennessee.
Tennessee isn't soft.
East Tennessee.
And frankly, a little softer than the English civil rights.
Yeah, Baker, they're just perfect.
No, and the Senate.
The Senate.
Oh.
The Senate, when you go through that grease light.
Isn't that, before I forget, your query goes into this session about reaching an agreement with the bar.
I'm not going to do it.
Well, I think the answer is... Well, I'm not going to submit it to the bar.
No.
I'm sick of it.
They put this out, and they have told us, and they've told us, and I'm not going to do it.
I would think that they would...
say that asks why the president follows the practices of the Senate, but must be that apparently it's not possible to protect confidentiality.
You're not going to have good men and good women have their reputations destroyed by having a manager on the press before I have an opportunity to present the positive side.
Maybe this will get to a reality.
A little girl from my dad's house.
They're not going to get any of that.
I'm never going to submit it to the Supreme Court if they don't get it.
But I think that's a good explanation.
There's going to be a suggestion that you bypass them because it's really going to be a solution that qualifies them.
They have a chance to say when they're going to be able to testify.
If I were appointed, first of all, I don't know what I'm going to question.
Everybody that I know is going to have to say it.
I'm so pleased to join you.
But it wasn't Ed Rundown again.
I mean, there were a lot of people at that time.
I told you I had my hair off on the other night.
But Powell, of course, is just a university.
Except for the idiot black bastards.
They're a lot of work.
He's...
We've got all these distinctions to use their words.
By their standards, he's really a curve, man.
And they just, they have to let it take them.
And this is what I was hoping that, I just think, to get some acquainted with all the negatives, the big and the strong, and to surprise them and come up with one where they have to fall down and say, I'm great, I'm worthy of this award.
Now, I don't think they're qualified.
What do you think?
What do I know?
I don't know.
I don't know entirely what the reason was.
It was some little delay in getting the bar to the parlor.
Do we know about that?
Or do you have anything like this?
I'm not sure we're putting him on a certain point.
He's not going to practice.
I mean, not in court.
I think that he has not been at liberty.
His field is, I think, I don't know if it's true that way.
I, coupled with Powell, I can give you an answer.
I can think of it.
There's a very cronyism where he's written.
He'll be associated with one of them, John Mitchell and so on.
Is that the one?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
And I'd like to, at this time, take a look at what was said about him.
I mean, in certain forms of nomination.
I wonder if there were any negatives other than the fact that he did not have much further experience.
I looked him up in HootSoo as a molotov.
He notes graduation from Fort Lauderdale Community College, graduation from the law school of Fort Lauderdale, which in that community, after four years in the Army, a lecturer at Fort Lauderdale, and, of course, associate professor, Professor Mack, who assisted me for 14, 15 years, from there to Fort Lauderdale, it's a fine record.
I don't know.
Coupled with Powell.
I'm frankly trying to buy the right to appoint a guy that I have a leader in politically and who's solid.
Solidly on the right.
Regularly on the right.
I don't think it's a set.
There's no question.
We don't know.
We don't know.
We don't know, because he's such an honest guy, he doesn't think she'd want somebody that old to cook.
She wants to have a long time.
We may not get Baker.
Now, if we don't get those, and we don't get the two of them, then the parlor will be, I'll take Smith.
They sure as hell can't say that a partner gives another crusher.
He's one of them.
And not philosophically, but I mean, when he's chairman of the board or the region.
What I'm getting at is, what do you think?
Don't you think he's in the elite group?
How yet is it possible to say he went wrong?
Absolutely.
I don't think that he's had much of a litigating experience.
But that's what it is.
Nothing to do with it.
Nothing to do with it.
I mean, the Supreme Court is not running.
First of all, we bypassed it.
He's done outstanding, he's a very fine one.
I know Bill Smith well.
Oh, isn't he a fine one?
Oh, yes.
Isn't he one of their singers?
In fact, he jumped up in the chair in third round and he's up ahead of those of them.
Is he one of the singers?
Oh, yes, he's one of them.
I have a letter to him in my office.
I think that he's way up there.
And of course, there's...
Strong man.
And a strong man in a very...
Right.
And a wonderful record of civic and bar and other activities.
Adding to his power respect of the regions, you know, and all that.
And so Davis kind of taught me as we go on up there.
He'd be excellent.
He's a, the negative will be, you know, he's great.
What was Harlan?
What's that?
Harlan was a corporate lawyer, too.
So we're replacing one corporate lawyer.
You ought to have one corporate lawyer.
Exactly right.
Three-fourths of their business is corporate law.
You know, really is.
Sure.
So who the hell else understands it on there now?
None of those guys.
There is one of the most amazing way in the world in that area and all this stuff.
What's his name?
I've been in a big war for it.
We just met at your firm, which, you know, he is the guy that's headed the travel department.
And you don't give him, you don't put the big brain there.
And that's not the way.
The travel department is never one of the heads of the firm.
That's absolutely right.
They have that function.
They have the, you know, the travel department.
He's basically a, but the money is not there.
And so the best way to be able to spend, rather than pay for the money, is to gravitate to the corporate.
You want to sit on the floor and watch what's going on.
And, oh, he's a, no, he's a telephone boy out there.
Three of the biggest companies in California who don't have the look to have the type of government, level-headed, and full of environment.
Mind-wide.
Yeah.
There's a second wife, I don't know if you've heard of her.
Do you know her second wife?
Yes.
I don't know her.
She's a great gal.
She stayed up all night in Kansas City during the...
campaign, when you had to address the women of Exeter, the old hotel in Missouri, you had to go in before those men.
We all came in.
And she stood up helping us with some remarks.
And it was in 1968.
68, yeah.
Mrs. Elizabeth Frank Smith.
She was a kind of great girl.
Now, the other possibility was you could take power on the stand.
We think that we can just, according to the people, it's important to just take Powell and Smith.
They're nobody's.
They ain't gonna knock Smith.
They'll both be well followed by the son of a bitch in bar, and by the person in their name.
You, I gather, have some, you are aware of Bill Redquist, and have, yeah, I know him.
Do you?
Well, I don't, they're just going to say he's not qualified.
I mean, they're just going to say, well, they're not good enough for him.
He's the most conservative.
He doesn't like it.
No, he doesn't.
His plans are always uncertain.
I know all that.
He'd be a fine member of the court, but how in the hell could he just put a guy who's an assistant attorney general in the court?
Mr. Preston, he was second in his class at Stanford.
He served as a booklet to Robert Jackson.
And it is, yes, which automatically was in the eyes of the second committee.
Carl Heisenberg there, Lockhart and Jackson.
What did you know?
It presumed to be.
And he had a fine practice.
And now he's in three years as the president, who was a lawyer, interpreting the sanctions in the Constitution.
You could sell him all of the cases like that.
If you take a Supreme Court law clerk coming back as a justice, what would happen once he's gone?
It would be a
Do you think the bar would give him a roll call?
I'd like to talk better about it, but I'm not going to ask the bar.
No, no.
I think that's the kind of life where he'd be surprised.
But when they looked at it, Ray was second in his class.
He was John Ellington's class, and also John told me that he was going to speak.
What did John think of you?
For the court?
Very highly.
It was a great court.
And he was a special in his case.
What did he think?
He said, well, I'm going to speak to himself.
No, I want you to talk to me.
John, I don't want to talk to you.
John Ellington thought you'd be great.
So did John Dean, who brought him up in a discussion when I was very good with him.
He was talking about pop music.
Pop music.
And he's from Arizona.
Yes, he is.
He was born in Wisconsin.
But I mean, he's not in the law practice, I'm sure.
He, he, he had, at one point, he was a partner of a man, I don't know, a lawyer that very cool was.
I don't know his name.
His name was K. I can, I can.
Get it and send it right in.
You know, you look at him now, there's an order of acquaintance.
I got this class at Stanford.
Stanford's in the league of law school, right?
Correct.
Right.
It's the Western community.
That, if even better, is sort of an answer to Harvard.
It's sort of having most changes to its heart.
That's what I mean.
It's sort of a reminder that the West has some matters of interest.
That's what they do.
It's just been hard.
No, our guys, our guys, obviously, we meet them all the time.
You get the top of your class in the league of law school, you're pretty good at that.
That's right.
But in terms of, it's sort of recognizing that there's a great law school on the West Coast that could produce this work.
Where's Bill Smith?
Bill Smith went to Harvard.
Bill Smith went to Harvard.
He went to, I guess, you know, he went to Harvard Law School.
All right, all right.
And it would be a, it's three years as legal counsel, which is the scholar of the department, the constitutional lawyer.
So turn it down, please.
I'm surprised how old he is.
He's a young guy.
He has pizza.
He's born in 1946 or 47.
He's a young guy.
He has...
I can't tell you what I've heard from people in the department, but I take it seriously about his mental, well, his ability to read.
And what I like to hold in those brightest moments
where we'd stick to him and I would put the best of all of them.
You know, one of the folks would give you, they can't fool him.
And he did the work for Jackson.
He knows all the, he knows the core, he knows the tricks.
And he knows everything about Jackson.
He was one of the best jacks.
He was one of the best jacks.
He was one of the best jacks.
He was one of the best jacks.
He was one of the best jacks.
He was one of the best jacks.
He was one of the best jacks.
who's who, but, you know, they're getting dates, and I noticed that the legal counsel was not even given pretty strong opinions up there.
They were, I don't know, the occupants like that, you know, said, well, the State Department's position.
But I think that with this one-third combination of lawyers, one-third, and the legal counsel is supposed to be the lawyer's lawyer in the department.
He's so qualified that
The minister is well-followed by Wizard White, who I quote.
Wizard was, of course, the deputy general, but Wizard isn't all that smart.
He's good, but he's not great.
Renfrews has such a well-followed and small business he made.
He's also got a wits and ability to express himself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let me ask you this.
I just got Dick in here, Dick Moore.
And I may reevaluate.
He comes down very hard on your man rank question.
Second in his class in Stanford was Clerk Robert Jackson.
And from your account, apparently, conservative.
and uh would make a brilliant justice would you agree do you think what would what would the country say about him he sure is qualified basically is is this that uh here's where we come down if we get powell then i think we we buy the opportunity to consider muller uh
On the other hand, and frankly, we get Baker.
Paul and Baker is a hell of a combination.
Baker's young.
There you are.
So we got Baker, we got a name.
Paul said yes.
That's great.
Yeah.
Now on Powell, I want to go forward and announce that before it starts moving.
Well, I don't want you to tell Walsh.
Okay.
I'm not announcing Powell this afternoon.
I heard from Walsh.
Nice, but I mean, Powell is not getting the moment to speak.
Well, I get your point.
All right, you'll hear it in the moment from anyone this afternoon.
Yeah, all right, call me back when you get it, but remember, let's figure, on the Red Cross thing, the political mileage basically is the same kind of mileage as we were able to spend.
The idea being that we are appointing a highly qualified man, and really it's not true.
And also, he doesn't quite have the smack of a corporate lawyer as much as he does.
But your judgment on this would be racist.
People all think so highly of the guy who must have a lot of power on the ball.
You, you really have some doubts about anything else, John.
Incidentally, the one that he's ranked with, I suppose he's a damn Protestant.
That's too bad.
That's a damn bad call to change his religion.
No, that's the truth.
Well, anyway.
Whatever he is, get him changed.
Yes, it does very much.
Even though he's 64.
But look, he can be on there 11 years.
He's the same age as Bergeron.
And I'm getting more and more optimistic.
Now, that'll surprise the shit out of him for us, whether he's expecting that or not.
Don't tell anybody.
Don't tell John or anyone.
I don't want to.
That'll be good.
I know you're not, but you would think I would tell them.
I normally would, but I'm not, because I don't want to keep everybody so interested in the staff.
They're afraid we're going to make a big boo-boo.
We're not going to make any boo-boos.
I know exactly what I did on all these others.
We just have to do it this way and set up a situation for them to understand that.
Well, that is, well, we covered two different names.
We met up there.
Now, I'll show them the map, and I better not speculate next time.
And I won't question anyone with the Memphis nomination.
I mean, he looks like a man.
He's a big, tall guy, and he's a little bit colorful.
He's as high as the conservative underneath.
But mostly, the point I want to make is that they have...
They're packing cells where they can't complain about a man's philosophy.
They're putting so much emphasis on qualification.
Being a lawbreaker is almost exclusive to the qualifier that I'm talking about.
You're right.
Yeah, right.
And the other thought I have is that I think in terms of 1% to 2% of the vote in New Jersey, Illinois, Ohio, California, they get swamped.
And you have your such great ship on foreign and domestic and everything else that they now come out and say, and also he makes brilliant,
Do you have a point?
That's what I was concerned about.
The plan, mediocrity, I think they were going to go on.
That voter may be more important than DeVoy and Aitken.
That's all it is.
So the Mulligan thing isn't working?
No.
We can do other things.
I think this is a national, across DeVoy, game.
It's not a local election.
And that's why I opposed it.
Mr. Smith would fit this for you, too.
Yes, he would.
Well, that's an Emily Baker offense.
Yes.
Don't be concerned about Bacon, because he was very high in his class, too.
Oh, yes.
He's a brilliant boss.
He really is.
He's smart as hell.
That's what I'm saying.
His garments came up with him.
His garments came up with him.
That's for me.
That's good.
I had seen it back in the 90s with Garbage Candidate or Baker and Wagner.
Well, now I can put Kevin in.
It's not the right place for him now.
And you're going to have more nominations.
Oh, you're going to have more.
Oh, there'll be others.
And Mulligan needs a little more time on that court than they say on the circuit.
I know.
And I can't wait to see him at Dillon.
He's a Douglas O'Brien in the background.
Douglas, you know, if he's going to get it back in 1956.
We make it big.
The power of the maker would be a good strong thing.
Even though it is the, let's say, two southerners.
That's right.
But it isn't deep south.
It's not Thurman South.
It's Middle South and Virginia and Tennessee.
And incidentally, it isn't bad on another one.
Looming over all of this is the issue with Buston.
Both of these men are against Buston.
And that will help them in life, Joe.
That's one of those issues that helps them.
Well, that's what I meant.
Everybody will know that Howard Baker is against Buston.
Correct.
Absolutely.
Really, any one of these goes well, coupled with Howard.
because it's not a parlor.
But if Howard Baker does say no, I'd say rent first and strike.
I'd say rent first and strike.
There's a little bit more of a touch of the great scholar there and the man learning in the law.
I know Bill Smith is a good conservative, but around the world, he's kind of rock bottom.
He's a big refiner.
He's a big physique.
Well, yes, he's strong as can be.
And not the Billism.
I mean, sure, Bill Smith, but I mean,
it's kind of a more, also it's less, you know, the Smith one is good, but the negative side is that Reagan's man, Reagan put him on for our president, and that this is some kind of political junk deal.
That's all right, but considering the balance, the rent was a little bit more competitive and a little bit, a little bit higher level in terms of his qualifications.
In fact, he's been in the courts, he's kind of,
I'm coming back to where the role, you know, where he worked for a great justice before.
Here's to that.
One man sent that.
It's a classic appointment.
Best sense of the word.
At all, of course, everybody was very nice.
I know, you see, he's written extensively.
They carry a lot of journals and the rest of it.
They all recognize him as a hell of a scholar.
And how do you do that?
people who were, you know, the voting leader, those things like that, you know, when it's time to knock on the door, you know, the answer is you've had it in mind all this time, but you have, you know, that's probably the age.
No, that's, I'm sure, what you were looking for.
You know, when you made another crime, you know, that's like, I don't know, I don't know, you might, you might take four years on that thing, and then,
He's waiting to hear from Walsh on the woman.
I'm going to stay here with the woman now.
They may not.
Well, I don't think so.
I don't.
You're against the law, aren't you?
If you were actually set on a woman, I was pretty well-recognized.
In fact, if you could be so good, I'm pretty good.
You were no Earl Adams.
Yeah.
Well, I was.
I felt it wasn't quite up to the law.
They can hurt you, not as far.
Well, we'll know that.
Most of them come so loud and stuff.
That's why I was, I thought that it was going to be other Lily.
I was hoping the other one would be Dr. Lewis Powell.
Dr. Powell.
You couldn't do it.
We'd go with Lily.
Yeah.
If they say she's qualified.
Yeah.
I'll have to then go back up.
So we can't blame.
Then everything would propose to the girl.
But I think if Powell goes, you can throw the woman in.
Yeah.
You couldn't, you couldn't.
And it was the combination, because it appeared right.
I was doing Paolo, or the other one, yeah.
But on the other hand, we got Paolo, and the woman says, no.
Did you know the woman?
Who?
We've got an offer out from Baker.
Baker says, yes.
We've got two that will be approved by Greece, like, you know, something like that.
And, uh...
Only the press and the semis, they're the ones who said that Mrs. Lilley was your choice.
You never said it.
You know, it was six.
They got on with reading all pretty fast, but then it was... Well, you've got to have a pair of women, though.
I've told, that's what you've got to find, a good sister, according to what you'll still be making on him.
You know what?
No.
She had left the department, I think, before.
Some good woman.
We ought to have a woman.
Yes, we've been doing that.
There's some good ones coming along over there.
You know, since, you know, the last 10 years, the law school has been taking kind of a walk out and going, but... Yeah.
But I don't know what that is, but it sure is true.
I suppose that the professional women who work in the law school are kind of like activists, not feminists, but usually they're middle school activists.
Let me ask you this.
If we do this, don't you think I should do this by making a brief television announcement on it?
And rather than going out and having the press question the ambassador about it, I just go out and say at 6.30 or 7.30 at night and say I'm going to announce my Supreme Court appointments on television.
And I describe my philosophy about the court, how I'm superbly qualified, this man, and so forth and so on.
Louis Powell, President of the American Bar Association, first in his class, whatever he was.
If he was first, I'm sure he was probably first, too.
Universally recognized as one of the probably top ten lawyers in the country.
I'll say something about Ben.
Ren was, according to the Supreme Court, one of the high honors of being one of the chosen.
Robert Jackson.
Jackson was a friend of mine who, not good, wrote me a letter one time
I had written an article, but it wasn't effective.
It was Paul Long, I remember him calling me.
He was the law general there.
David Capers was the editor-in-chief.
He sent my article that he had to read, and Jackson wrote me a letter.
I met him.
I met him.
I met him.
I met him.
I met him.
She'd never taken that door.
It wasn't Jim on it.
Everyone heard it there.
Well, everybody was listening to her mind.
Yeah.
And that sort of created a little bit of a... Did they stop spiking him up while he was there?
It wasn't her who killed him.
It was something else.
I heard it from her mother.
She wrote it well.
She was blocking the door by the way, by the way, by the left.
I don't know why.
I don't know.
It was a long story, but...
He came out of Jamestown, New York, which is in Tangstown, as you know.
He's a white worker and a very bright fellow.
He's an attorney general.
I'm not sure what he was talking about in the early 40s.
But, you know, I'm sure that's what he was talking about.
So this way, he's named, too, and wherever.
It strikes me, and I think we've got a way to do that.
Well, I would not say I would.
With a severe standpoint, I would recommend, I think, not suing.
For one reason, this seems to be one of those series that they thought was going to be a big run of cameras that go off.
I don't plan the second distribution.
Now, papers didn't carry it for some time, but outside of Time Magazine, it has not been picked up.
You haven't heard it discussed, or that's not caused any so-called amount of... And also, those items are so complicated.
I don't think Westbrook said a thousand understood him.
I don't think that they had enough right actually to cross the assignment that we mentioned to Bobby Decker.
That's what we think.
I want to get out of his statement, though, with regard to what it costs to be president, to come for columnists.
The fact that I gave up $175,000, you know, as I get my law firm, and lost $250,000 on this damn stock was my sole reward.
So the name stock was worth twice as much?
I don't know.
They wrote it in the stock that you paid a dollar and Arlinson's getting a silver dollar and just paid back.
Have you read much of the article?
But that's all on the proof.
Yes.
Yeah.
No, listen.
I bought it for a dollar.
At the time that I sold it, they had a contract that sold it for $3.75.
So I just bought it and I sold it for $2.00.
The others were buying it for a dollar because of preemptive rights, which I can do too.
See, I have access to all these facts below the surface, but even if we have a perfect case, we don't want that.
In terms of...
I don't really...
The stock presently is worth more than half a dollar.
That's what I want.
I lost $350,000.
$350,000.
That's what I want.
I do think that is worth getting out.
Oh, big, early kind of thing.
Yes, but in terms of...
I have a feeling that the landlocked wasn't these pieces of wood and stuff.
Right.
That was a very deceptive treatment, I guess, that matter of the value chip.
Oh, really?
So untrue.
Yes.
Saved the poor little guy.
Yes.
Built the kids a hip, you know.
That's right.
On drugs.
Oh, he was on drugs and everything.
Terrible thing.
Those were just, we'd never spend his money again.
But it struck me that no country was so full of them.
I said, nobody, nothing, nothing popped out of it.
As an old friend, I said, well, they can't hunt anything.
Of course they don't.
Unfortunately, none.
Unfortunately, Father Sanders said, everything I own, I own an equity in the San Clemente house.
I own an equity in my, in my, in the, you know,
actually two lots on the floor, three lots on the floor, two houses and a lot.
I don't know exactly what was falling in my mother's house.
That's all they have.
That's all they have in the world on another goddamn city.
I don't care.
Well, I think we've worked hard on this, man.
I know, I came down Sunday night to get these articles.
Eight o'clock Sunday night, I mean, here they were and here we are working.
And I think that's what I wanted to speak to.
but your copy of never you've never had no money
Great job.
If you get regrets, like in Rogers, I don't want to do something to another State Department person.
If you get any regrets like that, you can add Shakespeare.
Shakespeare will be the last of the choice.
And if there's enough, and the second choice of regrets would be Shakespeare and Kendall are the two aldermen.
But you don't need them.
And 12 fit nicely up there.
That's it.
Most of that, you know, they've been writing about pieces, every magazine's got a piece about a mysterious friend of the president.
Jim O'Neill is a totally honest man.
I could have made a myth, but he didn't want to use it.
My parents, if he'd wanted to take advantage of this apparent connection, you know, I'd have told him to never come out.
I talked to him on the plane that came back from Charlotte.
I had to talk to him on the divorce blood.
I said,
They can't find a way to get up to it.
They will, but they're all sorts of things.
But that's part of the game.
I have to protect what they said.
Sure.
But we've got to do what we're going to do.
And we're not through with that.
Yeah, we're not through with that.
I keep waiting because the other shoes dropped off.
It's Mr. Ray.
The war thing is going to happen.
We're going to have it done.
I'm not going to do it.
For a reason.
I'm going to make an announcement before I go to prison.
They're going to come through the prison before we announce another job.
That's the problem with that amendment.
And that's the amendment that says six months, I believe, you know, and within six months, provided they return the prisoners at some point, you can't do that.
That doesn't leave any option.
I'm living in fear that then, you see, that we get the prisoners or Obama.
Now that is, and that's not an idle term, I will.
The American people will support resumption of the bomb in the military targets until they return the prisoners of war.
My God, now I'm going to talk about this.
It's a terrible thing to do to those boys.
I know.
It's a big problem.
You don't need any one of these.
The Russians would get mad at us.
The Chinese would get mad at us.
Although, the beauty of the Russian-Chinese war is that one makes the other work.
That's right.
I mean, any sophisticate sees that.
I think I was about to say, gee, it's the most stupid argument like this.
Well, I don't know if Vichy had this chance
Let's talk about the questing.
I just hoped it would go exactly this way, and I just never got to see it.
Well, we are going to do things, and it's true.
But we have to put some things out there.
The scene in the bird pen was really irritating.
It caused a lot of consternation everywhere you came.
Well, so what were you doing?
Just admiralizing through distance.
And that really was delightful.
You know, jumping for cover in that traffic.
Must be holding back.
That's all right.
But you created a lot of suspicion among them.
You disturbed their ranks.
I don't mind you complimenting Mr. Byrd.
I think you should be disappointed to be considered your incompetent citizen.
Even those who are low in the price section should be considered.
You've done her a hell of a favor.
She's a nationalist.
This is the biggest... That comment we mentioned is the biggest thing that's going to happen to her.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
That will have some effect.
I didn't see Tom's origin.
He wasn't in the law review.
I bet he was.
I bet he was.
I don't know.
I know you all know.
We all know.
I'm not a big law firm.
I'm not hired to top their top ten of your class around the law review.
Yeah, I reckon.
I don't know.
Not Gibson, Dunn, and Crutcher.
That's right there.
I told you that they're the top bunch of bad guys.
They're getting the point where you have to be first or second in your class.
And those are the people who take on a lot of authority.
Oh, oh, oh.
I didn't do it because I didn't do it because it wasn't hard for me.
I'll bet he'll go nowhere.
Well, it didn't say my name yet, but I don't care.
Fine, I'll let me, give me a call then.
Just call me up.
Right.
Very good.