On October 6, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, H. R. Gross, Henry A. Kissinger, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 11:50 am to 12:35 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 283-033 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
It's a pleasure to work with Carlisle.
His speed is speed is phenomenal.
He doesn't have to agonize over his speed.
He is willing to deal with damage like the others.
You've got one phone call thing here that the congressional legislature is extremely anxious that you call gross because you called HR gross, please.
This is Congressman Gross of Iowa.
Back to you.
The key thing here was he pulled the surprise move of forcing the vote on Monday, which is how we won it.
And that was the figure on the track.
Put it on there.
Pulled together.
Our guys are doing a hell of a job on that.
Well, Jerry Ford told me today.
Parliamentary.
I've been calling people.
I worked here in there quite early.
I'll go over and call them.
You said that the leaders of the White House have done a better job than you have spoken to them.
You said that you're complimenting Colson's credit report, and they've been the only ones.
They're not going to respond to it.
That's right.
But it helps, Bob.
We have to remember these comments from the Senator who responded correctly.
Well, if the opposition does it, then you know it.
They'll see a stack of mail, and they'll think that's the country life.
If you look at the stack of mail we get on Taiwan, and, you know, it's about 5,000.
Get you, take a poll, 65, 70% think it's a good idea.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
But if you didn't hear the poll, you'd think, man, Christ, maybe I'm wrong.
See?
That's right.
What kind of calls are those?
A lot of these calls, the notes are effective.
And this space could have been over with if we were going to the conference.
It doesn't have to have been, but this was done on a first date, so we weren't there even to get in.
And the way they are, the way they work together at the cabinet and across the living room, the reason, frankly, I want the cabinet meeting to happen is that sometimes I'm like, I just thought you could have the cabinet for breakfast this time.
It's a compliment.
And it's definitely, since we're having... And then I'd have major, I'd have the major White House staff people that have to participate, you know what I mean?
Don't have, don't have fellows like Kissinger, Peterson, of course, if you would have Kissinger, for example, right?
And you wouldn't have, well, you know the ones that he, Flanagan, you would have for all the treatment.
Everybody that hasn't participated, worked with him.
You can ask them if they're interested.
We don't want the international set in on this one.
I don't think I would have Peterson on this one, for example.
And I wouldn't have Peterson.
It's sort of a different, see what I mean?
Why do you have Peterson?
I can't get any good at Peterson.
Yeah?
Yeah?
Hello?
HR?
I just wanted you to know that in checking with my spies up there, they told me that the Gross move, the parliamentary move, really was what helped us get that great win on Monday, and I wanted to thank them.
I called Hugh Scott this morning, and he wrote that Senate, and I said, by God, if they didn't stop this, they ought to talk about that.
So, well, they should have.
But your move was great, and Jerry Gordon, all the boys were telling me about it.
I've been down for it, and I've been working on the space to announce it tomorrow night.
So, but I was so pleased to see you come up.
But you apparently caught up with Surprise.
And how did you go about this?
Aren't you desperate, or how did you get him to do that?
Oh.
Yeah, yeah.
And the heat was going on from the labor unions and so forth.
Isn't that too bad?
Sure.
Well, it was really a great one, and I think it would have been very important.
I told William, we feel fairly good about the Senate vote, but I told Scott, I said, if they didn't have a vote, they'd talk together over there.
They got through Thursday, as I understand it.
Well, I sure appreciate it.
Give my best to Waterloo.
Okay.
Interesting.
We really do have an awfully good team working on this deal.
Gregor is much here and has a job to win that whole money bottle.
That was a very, very true thing.
Hey, I'm an Uber.
Now we're headed home.
to put you in and they pulled the rug right out and slumbered you in.
It was pretty damn good for a weak minority.
You're just beginning to be a leader, which you need to go try.
It's a tremendous improvement.
But he's a great operator.
He doesn't come in.
The thing about Gregor, he doesn't come in and hug his dad.
And also, he doesn't come in and say, well, he doesn't come in to me.
He doesn't feel at all.
The staff meeting this morning, I'm just saying, we were talking about the
You know, it's strong in the Senate and all that.
Some would say, well, I mean, your president's been there for all the senators.
McGarry said, no, it's not here.
We're going to handle this ourselves.
We'll go to a filibuster, but I think you can get the book worked out.
I mean, I don't want to go ask the president to start working on it.
He knows that if you use the president every time, that he can base more currency.
And we didn't remember that with Harlow.
And the word gets out as soon as you make a couple calls.
It's all over the hill, the president's calling.
Now that you do it, it has a great effect.
We're doing it, we're using the shot more effectively.
Before the price went up, you had to win every vote and you had to make sure you won it by an adequate margin.
That's the other thing, these guys play it a little closer on the margins.
If they think they've got two votes and they're solid,
They go with us.
They don't try to build a lot of safety.
No doubt about it.
Once you get the regular road there, it's very bad.
Well, we got out of it.
Here is what I was going to ask you.
It's a problem that we could take up later, but I don't want to decide on our own lives.
As I understand, it will be made in Moscow, 12-0-4.
Pardon me?
12-0-4, yeah.
The problem that I have with going in at 12 noon to read the announcement and answer your questions is that our own press, at least here in the Roscoe region, now what I have in mind is this, I'm on my way in at 11.30, which they will recall and I'll say I have an announcement in which there is a FOIA which cannot be re-enviroled at 12 noon
because if we release 12 of them, every non-major question, gentlemen, and it exactly fires this as well, I'll get out.
And that's very good because it also puts us in it on the push-wish.
And you see, that way, Bob, we get a question.
That way they can sit there and they can answer it.
It really is a good school, but we think that it is a good school.
It is.
Yeah, well, it's speaking Luther, by the way.
It's speaking Luther.
It's been criticized.
Well, you see, with this thing in mind, we can say, also, that we sort of made this.
It's just so rough and delicate.
I said, I will adjourn this in five minutes.
Well, I'll mention it as a courtesy to the freedom, but they don't even want to tell me.
Tell them I have to read the press.
They don't care when you do it.
But it's a marvel to tell them.
As long as you don't receive it before.
Well, they know we're informing those people that I'm a part of it, but no, that's not going to go on.
I think it's much better than having them stand there and also someone would slip out and try to go get to the wire.
I'm not going to allow that to happen.
They won't slip out.
They're right there.
But on the other hand, I feel that this would work.
And I think that's a very good idea.
They also have memes that are, that we brief very close to time.
Ron briefs anyway, so it's more of a surprise.
You know, hold them up.
That's right, because Ron often delays the briefings a little bit.
Let's see, I do have a camera through the... Hill.
A lot.
A lot, you see, so...
No problem there.
No, we can't get it out.
They can't get it out.
And so everything, everyone's part of the radio station.
Then they can run that on the radio.
I'll say, I'll start it out.
That builds the thing up too.
A lot of it builds it up.
And I'll say, gentlemen, the announcement I have to make is I'm going to be an absolute embargo on the fuel flow.
Therefore, I'm ready to take questions after making this announcement.
I'll take questions and I will cut it off.
And I'm going to ask the mayor to cut it off.
at 12 sharp, so that we will not, then I'll reach out.
This is perfect, Oscar.
Perfect, you might be, if you want it to be 11.55, you can stop moving at 12.
Will they jump the deadline?
Oh, five minutes.
By the time they, by the time they get a phone call, by the time they get a phone call,
Let's say 1155.
I'll adjourn.
1155 is to get out of this.
But they can't get out of that.
They can say all of it.
We'll adjourn this at 1155.
That's one thing.
They're trustworthy.
They don't break something.
They haven't busted anything on us.
The press is the most trustworthy group we've got.
That's right.
That's because it's their wife.
They bust when they know they've had.
Much better way to do it.
Why the hell do you call those people?
We couldn't call them
We could close with you an hour or two.
No, sir.
Fifteen minutes.
I just think that Congress is the worst leader on a thing like this.
And I would simply say the President is going to have a very significant announcement at 12, and because it's required, I can't tell you about it, but I urge you to listen.
Why don't you just tell him that and not tell him what it is?
A very significant announcement with regard to East-West relations.
A very significant foreign policy announcement.
A foreign policy announcement of 12 million.
We can't do it because it's embargoed for reasons that you will know.
But I want you to be sure to listen.
We don't have to worry about getting them to say anything good about it and so on.
I was thinking it's not well to tell Manfield that they have to say it.
Mr. President, you have no reason.
I have none to keep them happy.
And I have no reason to tell them.
Give me the call to be sure and listen.
Yeah.
Does keep them happy.
Halfway, halfway.
Rogers and the State Department will say, well, we've got to provide some of the other.
But how will we have that file?
We must prohibit State from talking to them at all because they let it out.
If State calls, they'll drop in on me.
I think we'll make the calls from here.
And we'll announce it.
We'll start calling them every now and then.
1130.
1130.
Well, 1130 so that they don't get out and receive that significant foreign policy.
Well, you don't have to call them.
Let McGregor call them.
You know, McGregor can call Scott and the rest, and he says, look, I just want to say, you know, that's the way I do it in the DMF, too.
Just make it that way.
We have warned them about it so they don't come and tell us.
But I'd rather not on this one tell them a goddamn thing.
We didn't tell them about China.
Well, at least, well, you simply said we had an agreement with the Soviets.
Yeah, we had an ironclad agreement with the Soviets.
And take it apart from other people when we had one couple of them.
They don't have to even know that, do they?
If you wanted to the next day, maybe I could leave it with you.
I don't know about you.
Well, I think it only was an outcome of the dollars.
We did that with China.
I'm inclined to think not of this one.
I'm inclined to think I should call and say, uh, have a nice holiday and you don't sell the time.
I understand.
Well, that's all the more reason not to, because it clearly puts it six months in the future, pal.
Seven months in the future.
Well, let's just not wait a minute.
Maybe the congressional consultation doesn't require it.
You're right.
In other words, the assholes will say, why don't we do it, and so forth.
Let them come down.
You know, it's so easy to handle.
It's like I call another man and walk.
And it turns them off on any answers.
Yeah.
And they've got to come up and take something good.
We can call them in.
We can call them in.
And they can say, we don't know what you're going to discuss.
And I'll say everything.
It's going to be there.
And what does it do like challenging?
It's how it would cover all of the presents.
But I would... Is that on Wednesday then?
No, I have it that afternoon.
Get them down there right after the conference.
And that's better than advance notification.
And I say, I would call them, in other words, just before and say that the president would like me to come down and give an announcement.
It must be embarked on as well.
Would like me to come down.
for a leadership meeting at 2 o'clock.
Two o'clock.
I think about the leadership meeting.
Three o'clock.
Three o'clock.
Three o'clock, right.
Consultation is important.
Otherwise, they'll think we're just... Make the broader...
And there's none of a pitch out into the view of the other in mind as to foreign policy and armed service.
They usually leave a lot of pitching about consulting.
It looks that, yeah.
But the fact you meet with them on how we are consulting and give us our views, I think we should.
I think it's good news.
They've got to come out and say something good.
They can't say anything until they've been in the CPU.
Shit.
Right.
Well, one, we now know who today is somebody in charge of that, and they didn't quick response to that decision.
It was Saturday, indeed.
Well, today's decision was triggered by Saturday, and it was, I recall, it was late, so I called folks, and they told me, you would know, I never call people, I never, you never drive foul.
When you express an opinion, you know, you kind of have to tell people you don't like their opinion.
It doesn't affect us in public opinion here.
It has a devastating influence.
It has been agreed to in principle.
It has been agreed to for three weeks.
It's true about the announcement and its timing when he spoke.
The words you're doing in law, Mr. Anthony,
What are you saying?
What rule?
By sources we never used them.
They make sense if we never used them.
No, they better not ask the first time.
It was a good question, but, you know, it's sad if you would ask the question.
You're the only one that's talking, you see that?
I want to go over with you briefly, with Bob, the liner.
I want you, when you can get it out, and it's of course perfect for skeleton, you might give it some sapphire too.
All these guys climb and climb.
That, you know, with two summits, I think we've got to make the point very strong.
These summits are necessary.
And two, they are different.
this president has not been a summit president, in other words, he doesn't believe in it, unless the summit's going to produce something.
He said that in his first press conference, and then I just didn't.
But the second point, this president is uniquely qualified to go to his event.
One, he knows the ones on the other side of the table.
Two, he knows the subject better than any president.
Three, he has unprecedented experience
in dealing with the highest level on matters of this time.
And fourth, he's a tough, realistic negotiator.
Now, I think that those four points coming across in columns regularly and so forth would be very good.
Now, the reason I raised it, I know, is to go at it, bless his soul in his own way.
He's trying to get that across.
And Dole told me that that's what he says in his speeches.
He talks to people, he's right with audiences, he knows their kinds of challenges.
He says, well, thank God Nixon's president.
Thank God he's going over there to talk to them rather than God damn Kennedy.
Now, this is a hell of a thing to me.
I'm beginning to think, incidentally, that the president might give some thought to a Western side early next year.
We haven't.
In our gang plan, we had had it after the Russian one.
But it was both a piece of those people who had it that they're neglecting our allies for the sake of the other.
If we do it far enough in advance of the Russian one, they can't object to it.
After China.
Well, if so, then we shouldn't worry.
But...
On the other hand, I'd like to do that latitude thing too, you know.
There isn't much good that can come out of the latitude, but what I thought could come out of the... Well, the wetland could come right after the State of the Union.
Well, the good that we have come out of that is the monetary system.
We don't take the financing.
It's just going to be in the big barrel.
Well, then, when do you want it to be separate?
You prefer that it may be so?
January is tough.
As much as January is just where you're dead, because you see you have the State of the Union in the first week, you've got the budget in the next week, you've got the economic report in the next week, where you know how December is.
December is pretty good.
December provided that we could get budget nothing out of the way.
Because what could come out of that is if you
It gave the impression that it was focused partly on the financial side.
It would get your accused to get started with it too.
And at the same time, you could have a major competition with all of the allies who reached out to your victory.
We should have.
But here?
Yeah.
Why?
Well, if you walked on the West Coast, it would be up to you.
The West Coast is late, and they have come to a bar against you.
I don't know what the matter is now.
We got it in here.
Fighting with the Washington, you know.
You can call it Jesus' day if you come here.
We'll grab a little shit and have a little bit.
We can have all the tornadoes.
No.
Just the big four.
That's good.
Can't wait.
Where's that leecher?
Why not five, and then have the Japanese join you later?
So, if you're reviewing the major great nations, and you're reviewing the future of the policy next year, then you're not colluding with Japan.
I've been trying to figure out a way of how to get the Japanese involved.
What the hell's happened to Oishi, has he gotten rid of him?
The other thing, too, is that we're able to figure out
how do we handle that so that can we discreetly get
Riders in all that act, and maybe one that he could work on some.
Riders, Connell, Chuckie.
Well, Connelly is easy.
I mean, Connelly tracks.
Yeah.
And, of course, Connelly can be then, yeah.
Personal view is, I don't care.
I have no interest in Billy.
He'll turn it into a self-serving exercise.
Yeah.
Just call them all in and say, I think we ought to have this.
What we ought to do is this.
The way we can do it is the way we have the other thing over here.
We have the back, we have the front, we have the back, we have the front.
We can find out whether they'd be willing to do this.
everything to do is that we can get around this battle this global invitation i would can't i would do that immediately after i got the soviet thing get that around so that they don't get the feeling that we're going to have a condominium that's another reason too i'm for it and you shoot for it i mean i don't think you could go around well i think you always get the chinese some of the states yeah we're trying to do something maybe the middle of november
December 2nd.
Maybe we can let it go a little bit sooner.
Besides, nothing good can come out of that meeting.
It's a college meeting, and they're going to belly hit it the whole time.
I think, though, we could get some problems to go down with the rest of it.
They couldn't try to do the last meeting.
The actor, he came to the...
When I got something off to him, I was like, you know, it's a little bullshit.
I think it's a good gesture of... Oh, yeah.
Well, I think the Western state is important.
We've got to talk to them before we go to the Russians.
It's very important.
We've got to do it soon enough.
We've got to do it.
We want to get past the primary.
The rule 16 is canceled.
We're not going to do it.
I hope not.
Well, goddamn it now.
It's got to be split.
It's got to be slipped.
I don't know why.
I told Linebreaker we're not going to slip the space program in general, but I think we could slip that flight.
I don't want another flight to be out of the election.
I'm not going to have somebody sail off the dollar space.
Be sure they get to that one.
Just slip those.
I don't remember how to cover that point.
Where would be a good place to have it?
Where would be a good place to have it?
Would you say?
Oh, frankly, the best place to have it is Washington.
Well, the beauty of Washington is they've got their industries.
They can all stay in their industries and have their own business and entertainment and everything.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Can we have a, we don't have time for four days.
No, no, no, we have time.
I think they can come over and do their thing.
But you see, at that time, the monetarism may be just a drag.
So we could get some of those things.
That's really why they do it so much anyway.
It's fine, I'm going to do.
Oh, yeah.
I think we ought to draft Harris for the next week.
He's a chief of state, a part of the utopian initiative.
I want a reason, Chief of State of Western Georgia.
I'd like to grab letters.
I had this down for you and have not done this enough.
First, remember that letter to Freshman.
I'm still waiting for that.
I'll add my own personal touches to that.
Second point is, I'd like letters to heads of state.
This is a good chief shot by Senator to heads of state I've met all over the world.
Only once I've done it.
You know what I mean, Nate, like Nate the Australian, I mean, the guy inside the guy's mind, he got up and he says, I read your letter to Ken, but we don't realize this is what happened.
He says it doesn't have to be a state visit, all he wants is to be well.
Well, hell of a shit, you know, it's never going to work.
That's the hardest kind of racism we've just taken in.
We're taking for one day.
That's all.
It's good enough.
We almost had to.
We've got to do the Australian Island.
That's fine.
It's still good.
I'd like to find real people that look for reasons for me to write.
I think, Mr. President, you'll find a project.
You'll find that you've written a hell of a lot of letters.
We get out and see you for a month, do we?
Yeah.
All right.
Now, we'll correspond to the people about this, I think.
All right, let's do that.
For example, I don't always tell you details.
I send a little note on your behalf.
It won't be due until once.
So, we're going out.
I think those of the Western Summit think, now how do you want to do this?
Back channel that, that'll get around.
We, uh, you know, I don't know how to write a letter.
You don't inform us.
No, you don't.
They just believe so incredibly.
Yes, they do.
Bill won't need to be told to not do that.
Just write the letters.
He likes the letters.
Oh, I don't.
The way it has worked best for Bill is, after the fact, if he gets the credit for the reason, he's gone ape on the China trip.
is because he can't, he hasn't got the publicity.
And he doesn't even care so much for it, but he wants publicity for himself.
And on the other stuff, like Berlin, and so when I got out of the picture, and wherever I can, I'll be out of the picture.
So the things like Berlin, well, he kicked for a few days, but he just go crazy as he has on his child.
So if we could get it set up in principle, and then tell him to run it, there's no question about that.
But the problem is that in the process of setting it up, these guys are gonna leak all over, and in order to be assured, they're lying.
Well, then, by the time we do that, by the time we leak all over to them, we're stuck with the meeting.
I mean, I don't want a meeting, and somebody may turn it down, and this and that.
But that's the problem, then.
All right, let's do it.
Totally explore it for a piece.
So if we can get the other three, then we can, uh, good.
We can do it.
In December, that's not a bad time.
All right.
We can do well.
If we do have the damn thing, it would be a nice day.
All right.
All right.
All right.
take it to the Kennedy Center, you know, for the entertainment.
That might be a good idea.
Or we could have Kennedy Center put on a special function for the State General, put them all in the same box.
I think it would be good.
The box would be a first-time, that would be a super-arrival ceremony.
Yeah.
Well, they will come separately.
One feature comes separately, but there's a variety of features.
I think it's better to do it this year than after your Russian trip, everything is frosting.
You don't need it.
After my Russian trip, let me say,
Everything's politics, too.
You know, because the original gang plan was to have it after the spells, too, obviously.
If you could come out of the Western Summit with a new international system, a monetary system, plus some change of agreement.
Of course, you don't need agreements or anything, don't you?
Just be able to change the rules on how to play the next year.
Very good.
What's your plan if you close out the year on top of that?
You need to protect your translations.
You've got to have an Italian car that speaks French.
You need to wear plugs.
About four people are going to have to wear plugs.
Yeah, they have to.
They do have them now.
It's better if they're just going to do it.
I tried again, and in a situation where the public is a little bit distracted, and there's a state of emergency, I'm sure.
Well, let's work it that way, then.
And now, to keep the business as close as it can be, I decided not to tell them the money.
I'm safer to not have any money, just to write a running proof.
There's French deputies.
Wayne Hayes is putting this enormous pressure on people to shake their hands.
Today.
On Friday.
Friday, I'll do it.
I'll do it because of Hayes, frankly.
Because Hayes, as you know, one of our people in France, are probably going to receive it.
Thank you, Melvin.
We're going in because of him.
We've got a cabin meeting Friday, so that's our...
This is just, they just want to bring him by for an NJ.
The deck thing will have to go over.
He's doing some work on some things, but they're all in it.
I'd rather shove it in the middle of next week.
That's important.
Put it off the wind.
He gets more time to analyze it.
I say that I'm a chef every night.
Because I'm sure.
I do haze again.
We had it made because you were on TV, right?
No.
So you couldn't have a good time with us there.
Well...
That's the way to do it, though, is to just keep it held and then bang right in there.
It doesn't mean you're resting.
It's automatic cut off.
Yeah.
Good, good, good.