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Conversation: 292-011

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Start Date: 19-Oct-1971 3:05 PM

End Date: 19-Oct-1971 5:05 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Ehrlichman, John D.Haig, Alexander M., Jr.Weinberger, Caspar W. ("Cap")Shultz, George P.Sanchez, Manolo

Recording Device: Old Executive Office Building

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 00:17:26

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:15:02

292a.mp3

292b.mp3

NARA Description:

On October 19, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, George P. Shultz, and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:05 pm to 5:05 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 292-011 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 292-11

Date: October 19, 1971
Time: 3:05 pm - 5:05 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with John D. Ehrlichman, Alexander M. Haig, Jr. Casper W. (“Cap”)
Weinberger, and George P. Shultz.

     John B. Connally's health

     Federal budget
          -School lunches
               -Criteria

     Pending legislation
          -Michael J. Mansfield amendment
               -Leslie C. Arends actions
               -Vote

     Federal budget Fiscal Year [FY] 1972
          -Deficit

     FY 1973 budget

     The President's previous meeting with Republican Congressmen
                                             7

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)


          -Hugh Scott
              -Clark MacGregor
              -Mansfield
              -Revenue sharing
              -Welfare reform
              -Public relations
                    -Congress adjournments
                          -Timing
                          -White House position

     Congress's schedule
         -Adjournment
         -Revenue sharing and welfare reform
                -Wilbur D. Mills
                     -Letter to the President
                -Ways and Means Committee staff's efforts
                -Russell B. Long’s position
                     -Conversation with Ehrlichman
                -White House public relations efforts
                     -The President's possible speech
                     -Spiro T. Agnew's speech on revenue sharing

     Welfare reform
          -Ehrlichman's conversation with Long and Wallace F. Bennett
          -Possible experiment
          -Abraham A. Ribicoff's action
          -Long’s view

     FY 1973 budget
         -Defense spending
         -Revenue sharing
         -Alternatives
               -The President's economic program
               -Outlay management
                    -Shultz’s assessment
                          -Defense spending
                          -Revenue spending

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 3:05 pm.

     Refreshments
                                               8

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)



Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:05 pm.

     FY 1973 budget
         -Alternatives
               -Outlay management
         -Revenues
         -Economy
               -Arthur F. Burns's efforts
                     -Money supply
                     -Effect
         -General revenue sharing
         -Burns's role
               -Money supply
         -Economy and spending
               -Roles of private and public sectors
                     -2nd and 3rd quarter figures
         -Pending legislation
         -Government spending
               -Strategy
         -Full employment
         -Pending legislation
               -General revenue sharing
               -Welfare reform
               -Revenue sharing
               -White House public relations efforts
                     -Strategy

     The President's domestic programs
          -Political value
                -Environmental programs
                -Revenue sharing
                -White House strategy
                      -Congress
                      -Nelson A. Rockefeller
                           -Supporters
                -Welfare reform
                      -Daniel P. Moynihan
          -Alternatives
                -Property tax
                -Value Added Tax [VAT]
                                        9

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                         Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)


           -Revenue sharing
     -Political value
           -Welfare reform
     -FY 1973 budget
           -Revenue sharing
                 -Timing
     -The President's possible message to Congress
     -Revenue sharing
           -FY 1973 budget
           -Political issue
           -Alternatives
                 -Property tax relief
     -Education
           -Property tax relief

FY 1973 budget
    -Full employment
    -Revenue sharing
          -Lobbying
          -Mills's possible action
          -Possible veto
          -Congressional action
          -Administration's efforts since 1969
          -Burns
          -Possible veto
    -Size
    -Revenue sharing
          -Ehrlichman’s view
                -Congress
          -The President's possible actions
          -Weinberger's possible actions
          -The President's possible actions
                -Congress
    -Welfare reform
          -Legislative prospects
                -Long
                      -President’s conversation
                -White House strategy
                -Long and Bennett's possible action
                      -Ribicoff
                      -Effect on federal employment
                                         10

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 10/06)
                                                            Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)


                -House Resolution [HR] 1
                -Family Assistance Plan
                -Long's possible meeting with Connally

National economy
     -Cost of Living Council [COLC]
           -Louisiana sugar cane growers
                -Long
     -Unemployment Insurance Bill
           -Shultz's conversation with Long
                -Job corps center in St. Louis

FY 1973 budget
    -Revenue sharing
    -Welfare reform
         -The President’s view
               -Congressional action
    -Education
         -Property tax reform
               -Administration's philosophy of government
               -Benefits
               -Post practices
               -1973 enactment of sales tax
    -Special revenue sharing
         -Model cities
         -Urban renewal
         -Ehrlichman’s view
         -Governors support
         -Legislative prospects
         -Samuel L. Devine
         -The President’s position
         -Congressional appropriations
         -Education
    -Education
         -Ehrlichman’s view
         -VAT
               -Benefits
         -State school support programs
               -Court decisions
               -California
                     -Taxes
                                  11

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                          Tape Subject Log
                            (rev. 10/06)
                                                    Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)


-National defense
     -Melvin R. Laird's statement
     -Henry A. Kissinger's views
           -Spending level
     -Spending levels
           -National Security Council [NSC] view
           -Navy
           -Interceptor Aircraft
           -Safeguard Missiles
           -Ground Forces
           -Aircraft Carriers
           -Air Wings
     -Ground forces level
           -Previous NSC meeting
     -Air craft carriers
     -Air wings
     -Haig’s view
     -Base closings
           -Possible political effect
     -Effect on national economy
           -California
           -Other program spending
     -Possible increase in defense spending
           -Model cities
           -Shultz’s view
           -Weinberger’s view
     -Laird
     -David Packard’s view
           -Previous meeting with Shultz
     -Laird's views
           -Navy
     -Expenditures in California
           -Employment
           -Peter M. Flanigan's analysis
     -Air sorties in Vietnam
     -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
           -Anti-ballistic missiles [ABM]
     -Effect on national economy
     -Effectiveness
           -People's Republic of China [PRC]
           -Soviet of Union
                                      12

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. 10/06)
                                                              Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)


         -Modernization of army
         -Effect on national economy
               -Shultz’s view
         -Effectiveness of spending
         -Politics
               -Laird's views
                     -Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
         -Effectiveness of spending
         -Defense Department's fiscal guidance
               -Office of Management and Budget [OMB] budget exercises
                     -Kissinger, Packard, Shultz
                     -Gardiner L. Tucker
                     -Kenneth W. Dam
                     -Shultz’s view
               -Kissinger's role with Laird
                     -NSC views
         -Obligatory authority
         -Jackson's possible views
         -Laird's role in Defense Department
         -Expenditures on human resources
         -Defense expenditures
               -Decreases
                     -Opposition
         -USSR
               -Military plans and activities
                     -Offensive capability
                     -US response
                           -Air force
                           -Haig’s view of readiness
         -SALT
               -Effect on budget
                     -Multiple Independently-targeted Reentry Vehicles [MIRV]

SALT
    -First strike capability
          -MIRV, Polaris, Minuteman
                 -Deterrence effect
                 -Haig’s view
    -Negotiations
          -Budget
                                        13

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                   Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)


1973 budget
     -National defense
          -Laird's forthcoming meeting with Kissinger and Haig
          -Air power
     -New initiatives
     -Existing programs
     -Veto strategy
     -Outlay management
     -New initiatives
          -Research and development
     -Domestic issues
          -Political value
          -Lyndon B. Johnson, John F. Kennedy
          -Property tax
          -Aid to parochial schools
                 -Constitutionality
          -Tax reform
                 -VAT
                 -Revenue sharing
                 -Joseph A. Califano's article in New York Times
          -Research and development
          -Congress's possible role
     -Veto strategy
          -Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO] extension
          -1972 campaign
                 -Democratic candidates
          -Water quality bill
                 -Edmund S. Muskie
          -Political analysis
                 -The President's schedule
                      -Haig
                      -John N. Mitchell
                      -Robert J. Dole
                      -Charles W. Colson
                      -Connally
                      -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                      -Laird
                      -William P. Rogers

National growth policy
                                        14

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                 Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)


FY 1973 budget
    -New initiatives
         -Effect
         -Education
         -Research and development
         -Tax increase
                -Mills
                -VAT
    -Balance
         -Full employment
    -Taxes
         -The President's schedule
                -Connally
                -Unknown people
    -Veto strategy
         -OEO extension
                -State of the Union message
                      -Strategy
                -House of Representatives
                -Child development program
                      -Strategy
                      -Richard H. Poff, Devine, John J. Rhodes
    -Taxes
         -The President's schedule
                Connally
         -Treasury's previous proposals
         -Parochial school aid
                -Constitutionality

Parochial school aid
     -Possible constitutional amendment
           -National Education Association [NEA]
           -William F. (“Billy”) Graham

1973 budget
     -Parochial school aid
          -Cost
          -VAT
          -Voucher program
                -Busing
                                              15

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 10/06)
                                                                 Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)


    School buses


**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 36s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6

**********************************************************************


    The President's schedule

    International narcotics control
          -Defense Department's cooperation

    Pentagon Papers
         -Defense Department damage assessment
              -Daniel Ellsberg case
              -Adm. Noel Gayler's views
              -Ehrlichman's forthcoming call to Laird
                    -International narcotics
                    -NSC

    1973 budget
         -Full employment balance
         -Congress's schedule

    Congress
        -Forthcoming vote
        -The President's meeting with Congressmen, October 19, 1971
             -Vietnam

    Vietnam
         -Mansfield resolution
             -Soviet Union Summit
             -PRC Summit
                                              16

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                       Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)


                 -Administration policy
                        -Congress
                              -The President’s view
                 -Mansfield resolution
                        -Prisoners of War [POWs]
                              -The President’s assessment
            -Negotiations
                 -Options
                        -Effect on POWs
            -Casualties
            -Motives of the President's opponents
            -Nguyen Van Thieu's election
                 -Effect
            -North Vietnamese casualties
            -Possible results of communist takeover
                 -The President's conversation with the bishop of Da Nang
            -POWS
                 -Possible raid
            -Mansfield amendment
            -Negotiations
                 -Possible bombing
                        -Cambodia, Laos
                        -Soviet Union, PRC
            -Actions of the President's opponents
                 -W. Averill Harriman
                 -William V. Shannon's October 19, 1971 editorial
                        -John F. Kennedy
                              -Dean Rusk
                              -Schedule
                              -Bay of Pigs

     Shannon

     Life

     New York Times
         -Ehrlichman's possible actions

Ehrlichman, et al. left at 5:05 pm.
                                                  17

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 292-11 (cont.)