Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 293 › Conversation 293-006

Nixon, Bull & Ehrlichman on HR1 and Tax policy

Wednesday, November 17, 1971 · 1:27 PM–2:48 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Bull, Stephen B.;  Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation293-006 onTape 293 (tape position 00:09:13–00:16:14)StartWednesday, November 17, 1971 at 1:27 PMEndWednesday, November 17, 1971 at 2:48 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 293-006 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman met to discuss the administration's legislative strategy regarding HR1 and a problematic amendment threatening the broader tax bill. The discussion focused on the political necessity of avoiding a presidential veto of the tax package while managing potentially unfavorable legislative amendments. They ultimately decided to pursue negotiations with Senator Charles Percy to mitigate the amendment's impact and effectively handle the political leverage involving state governors and Governor Ronald Reagan.

Audio

Download MP3 (part 1) · 112.2 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 39.3 MB

This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 00:09:13 into the tape and ends around 00:16:14.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) ·JSON data · Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.

9:21I'm working on the speech.
9:22I've got some things ready.
9:24Yeah.
9:25Go.
9:50You're not going to be able to find it.
9:52You've got to give it that much.
10:16Is that the one that provides for a takeover of everything above or under 25%?
10:20Yeah.
10:20That's good for a reference sheet.
10:31This is the house .
10:36I don't know about males in history.
10:45I'm not going to be able to do that, so I'm going to have to go around.
10:57That's the problem.
10:58You can't go over that task first.
11:01I'm not being concerned about that.
11:03On the ground, frankly, I don't think HR1 is going to make one.
11:07No.
11:08Why don't we play that game?
11:09I mean, I think looking at it very realistically, I don't think you're going to be able to...
11:17If this amendment passes, I mean, I cannot be in a position, John, of vetoing the tax bill because of everything else in it.
11:23Is that what the recommendation would be, to veto the amendment?
11:26I guess I have to say, in fact, what you and I know is that
11:38It may be one of those things where we have to grin and bear it, you know, with the idea that maybe it's just one space.
11:46It may be the way we get rid of the stimulus that we're going to go through reverent sharing, right?
11:55So you come down to this.
11:56But what does it gain as we commit this person?
11:59Does he give up on his amendment?
12:05Then what happens if he gives up on his amendment?
12:09All that we do by getting up, by going to Percy, is to move up to the effective day-to-day trial.
12:13We don't change any principles.
12:17I agree.
12:19Okay, then let's try it.
12:22Don't you think so?
12:25See, I think that's where we are.
12:27Let's be quite realistic.
12:28We cannot be COVID taxpayers.
12:31I mean, I just can't do that, because other than that, the auto-excise is going to be
12:38I think we ought to get out of this terrible situation.
12:42I mean, this has been terrible.
12:45I wasn't here to wait for Reagan.
12:49I'm pretty sure he didn't.
12:53I don't know.
12:54I don't understand much of what he's doing.
13:07I see.
13:08But he's not four persons in that.
13:26Well, of course not.
13:32So why this doesn't happen is the wrong way to do it.
13:38On the other hand, so therefore we ought to try to meet the amendment and pay what price we have to pay, don't you think?
13:50The evil in Percy changed.
13:56I mean, in Percy, that's what I mean by meeting and pay what price we need to not to have an amendment because the alternative is to have the amendment.
14:07Let's see what happens to HR1.
14:11Something may happen to it.
14:13Or do we feel something may, right?
14:16Is this network just gonna make something that's already bad a little worse?
14:32But isn't it worse, I mean, in front of this thing?
14:35of having what you call this one-time re-administration business, which is bad business.
14:39It isn't helpful, but they didn't do it.
14:41It's intolerable in terms of the revolutionary thing.
14:44They just want to bail out the governor and so forth.
14:48Don't you think so?
14:49That's my opinion.
14:50All right.
14:52Reagan's against it, too.
14:53Yeah, he said he was against it.
14:58Mainly because it's open-ended, as he puts it.
15:00That's his argument.
15:02He's against it on principle.
15:04Okay.

NARA Description

On November 17, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:27 pm and 2:48 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 293-006 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 293-6

Date: November 17, 1971
Time: Unknown between 1:27 pm and 2:48 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Stephen B. Bull.

     The President's schedule
          -John D. Ehrlichman
               -Possible meeting with the President
                      -Richard B. Ogilvie
               -Telephone conversation with the President
          -Speech

The President talked with Ehrlichman at an unknown time between 1:27 pm and 2:48 pm.

[Conversation No. 293-6A]

[See Conversation No. 14-154]

[End of telephone conversation]

Bull left at an unknown time before 2:48 pm.

Also recorded on November 17, 1971

  • 014-153 1:26 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 1:26 pm to 1:27 pm.
  • 293-004 1:26 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:26 pm to 1:27 pm.
  • 014-154 1:27 PM · 9 min — Stephen B. Bull, White House operator, John D. Ehrlichman, and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:27 pm and 2:48 pm.
  • 293-005 1:27 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:27 pm and 2:48 pm.
  • 293-024 1:30 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Clark MacGregor met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:30 pm to 1:32 pm.
  • 293-025 1:32 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:32 pm and 1:42 pm.
  • 293-026 1:32 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:32 pm and 1:42 pm.
  • 293-027 1:32 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:32 pm and 1:42 pm.

All 66 conversations from November 17, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 293-006, November 17, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/293-006 (accessed September 18, 2026).