{"conversationCode":"293-015","tapeNumber":293,"conversationNumber":15,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-293-015","startDateTime":"1971-11-17T22:23:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-11-17T22:25:00.000Z","startDate":"17-Nov-1971","startTime":"5:23 PM","endDate":"17-Nov-1971","endTime":"5:25 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.;","description":"On November 17, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:23 pm to 5:25 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 293-015 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 293-15\n\nDate: November 17, 1971\nTime: 5:23 pm - 5:25 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.\n\n[See Conversation No. 15-4]","filename":["293-015-splice.mp3"],"tapeStart":"01:17:35","tapeEnd":"01:20:40","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ehrlichman, John D."],"prevCode":"293-014","nextCode":"293-016","tapeTranscriptFile":"293a.mp3,293b.mp3","transcript":[{"start":4652,"end":4668.48,"text":"Hi, John."},{"start":4668.51,"end":4677.91,"text":"How are you getting along on that, uh, uh, person matter now?"},{"start":4683.34,"end":4683.77,"text":"All right."},{"start":4683.78,"end":4690.07,"text":"I think, of course, it does not mean, in my opinion, that we put this in a budget necessarily."},{"start":4690.97,"end":4691.59,"text":"Would you agree?"},{"start":4691.87,"end":4698.24,"text":"Because we can still go forward with our... Well, that's the only thing that's concerning after I talk to you, that we haven't..."},{"start":4698.36,"end":4709.57,"text":"I don't want to, per se, say that we haven't changed our... one of our major post-mortem... post-mortem welfare reform because of the... so forth, but..."},{"start":4713.23,"end":4717.05,"text":"but they're supportive of that."},{"start":4717.35,"end":4717.67,"text":"Good deal."},{"start":4717.69,"end":4718.21,"text":"That's good."},{"start":4718.23,"end":4725.36,"text":"Well, I think it's the less of the two bad choices."},{"start":4725.68,"end":4733.18,"text":"Yeah, well, we really got stoned by the fact that there's a chance of meeting one and a damn little chance of meeting the other, as I consider it."},{"start":4733.26,"end":4740.89,"text":"Because even though we have both governors, and the big governor is President Rockefeller on our side, he sure doesn't agree with one principle or the other."},{"start":4741.06,"end":4742.93,"text":"Well, both principles are on Rockefeller."},{"start":4743.38,"end":4745.36,"text":"He just believes that this is the same crap that we share."},{"start":4745.54,"end":4745.92,"text":"And it does."},{"start":4746.97,"end":4747.78,"text":"Isn't that his argument?"},{"start":4748.59,"end":4750.11,"text":"Well, Reagan's argument is not that great."},{"start":4750.17,"end":4754.05,"text":"His argument is that it's going to mean an escalation of welfare costs."},{"start":4755.05,"end":4756.93,"text":"And he's dead right about that."},{"start":4756.95,"end":4757.49,"text":"It puts it on the top."},{"start":4757.57,"end":4760.09,"text":"God damn, that Percifer coming up was such a horrible mess."},{"start":4760.11,"end":4762.99,"text":"Well, I suppose it's because he's trying to help older people."},{"start":4763.05,"end":4763.17,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":4763.23,"end":4763.39,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":4763.41,"end":4770.46,"text":"I must say, it was..."},{"start":4772.74,"end":4778.72,"text":"on the Ogilvy thing where we now go ahead and try to help him with these."},{"start":4778.74,"end":4791.61,"text":"I gave him his nickels and dimes."},{"start":4791.63,"end":4797.65,"text":"What the hell is he screaming about?"},{"start":4801.58,"end":4803.18,"text":"But she feels pretty good, we should."},{"start":4803.22,"end":4806.6,"text":"She's gonna be able to survive."},{"start":4807.48,"end":4808.5,"text":"Okay, Tom, thank you."}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":4655,"end":4840,"startMethod":"llm-alignment","endMethod":"llm-alignment"},"transcriptConfidence":"high","transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss the political challenges of advancing welfare reform, specifically addressing concerns raised by Governor Ronald Reagan regarding rising costs. The pair strategizes on how to handle Senator Charles Percy's involvement and reconcile the conflicting interests of Republican governors like Nelson Rockefeller. Nixon ultimately instructs Ehrlichman to proceed with managing these legislative hurdles despite the difficult political landscape.","topics":["Welfare reform","Ronald Reagan","Nelson Rockefeller","Charles Percy","Legislative strategy","Political maneuvers"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T13:45:27.935Z"},"topicSlugs":["welfare-reform","ronald-reagan","nelson-rockefeller","charles-percy","legislative-strategy","political-maneuvers"],"audioDurationSec":188,"audioFiles":[{"file":"293-015-splice.mp3","bytes":3008515,"durationSec":188,"bitrate":128019,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:34.998Z","originalFilename":["293a.mp3","293b.mp3"],"spliceSource":{"spliceType":"bigtape","sourceFiles":["293a.mp3"],"cutStart":4653.5,"cutEnd":4841.5,"adjustedStart":4653.5,"adjustedEnd":4841.5,"boundaryMethod":"llm-alignment","confidence":"high","splicedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:34.998Z"},"transcriptPrev":{"segments":36,"replacedAt":"2026-09-18T14:14:23.022Z"},"audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/293-015-splice.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/293-015","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/293/conversation-293-015","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}