{"conversationCode":"293-030","tapeNumber":293,"conversationNumber":30,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-293-030","startDateTime":"1971-11-17T18:43:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-11-17T19:30:00.000Z","startDate":"17-Nov-1971","startTime":"1:43 PM","endDate":"17-Nov-1971","endTime":"2:30 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\"); Bull, Stephen B.; Sanchez, Manolo; White House operator; MacGregor, Clark;","description":"On November 17, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, Manolo Sanchez, White House operator, and Clark MacGregor met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:43 pm to 2:30 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 293-030 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 293-30\n\nDate: November 22, 1971\nTime: 1:43 pm - 2:30 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with H. R. Haldeman.\n\n     John B. Connally\n          -Previous press conference\n               -National Broadcasting Corporation [NBC] news coverage\n               -George Meany\n               -Pay Board\n               -Douglas Kiker's comments\n          -Labor's views\n          -Press conference\n               -Television coverage\n                     -Kiker, Bill Monroe\n                           -Comments\n                     -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]\n                     -George Herman and [Arnold] Eric Sevareid\n                           -Comments\n\n                            -Henry A. Kissinger\n                            -Meany\n                            -National economy\n                                 -Citibank\n\nPending legislation\n     -Tax Bill\n          -Financing political campaigns\n                 -Thomas G. Wicker's views\n\nConnally\n    -Previous press conference\n         -Television coverage\n               -William A. Gill, Jr. and Louis Rukeyser\n                     -Comments\n                          -National economy\n                                 -Stock market\n                          -Meany\n    -Attacks on the President's opponents\n         -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew\n\nPaul N. McCloskey\n     -Statements\n\nAgnew\n    -Statements regarding McCloskey\n\nPolls\n        -Roper\n        -Results\n             -Timing\n        -Harris\n        -Results\n             -Interpretation\n             -Dwight D. Eisenhower, Lyndon B. Johnson and John F. Kennedy\n             -Vietnam\n             -National economy\n\n             -Questions\n                  -The President's People's Republic of China [PRC] trip\n                  -Soviet Union\n                  -The President's PRC trip\n\n     National economy\n          -The President's program\n                -Pay Board\n                     -Meany's participation\n\n     Polls\n             -Results\n                  -Influential factors\n                        -Soviet announcement\n                        -United Nations [UN] vote on the PRC\n                        -William L. Calley trial\n                        -American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations\n                               [AFL-CIO] issue\n                  -Eisenhower\n                  -Influential factors\n                        -Foreign trips\n                  -Prime time television\n                  -Breakdowns\n                        -Geographic\n                              -South\n                              -Percentage\n\nStephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 1:43 pm.\n\n     Redskins' practice schedule\n\nBull left at an unknown time before 2:25 pm.\n\n     The President's schedule\n          -Redskins practice\n\n     National Football League [NFL]\n          -Schedule\n\n     The President's schedule\n          -James R. Schlesinger and Najeeb E. Halaby\n          -Redskins practice\n          -John D. Ehrlichman, Connally and George P. Shultz\n               -Budget meeting\n\n     Polls\n             -Results\n                  -Influential factors\n                        -PRC\n                        -Vietnam War\n                        -Economy\n                        -PRC\n                        -Economy\n\nManolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 1:43 pm.\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal Returnable]\n[Duration: 14s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nSanchez left at an unknown time before 2:25 pm.\n\n     The President's image\n          -Previous speech to AFL-CIO convention\n               -Meany\n\n     The President's schedule\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n[Personal Returnable]\n[Duration: 43s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n     Pending legislation\n          -Tax Bill\n               -Financing political campaigns\n                      -Wilbur D. Mills's view\n                      -Passage\n                      -Possible veto\n                      -Possible special session\n\nThe President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 1:43 pm and\n2:25 pm.\n\n[Conversation No. 293-30A]\n\n[See Conversation No. 15-94]\n\n[End of telephone conversation]\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3\n[Personal Returnable]\n[Duration: 30s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n     The President's schedule\n\nThe President talked with Clark MacGregor between 2:25 pm and 2:26 pm.\n\n[Conversation No. 293-30B]\n\n[See Conversation No. 15-95]\n\n[End of telephone conversation]\n\n     Pending legislation\n          -Tax Bill\n               -Hugh Scott\n\n     The President's schedule\n          -California\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4\n[Personal Returnable]\n[Duration: 25s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n     Congress's schedule\n\n     International economy\n           -Import surcharge\n           -Connally's schedule\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5\n[Personal Returnable]\n[Duration: 17s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nHaldeman left at 2:30 pm.","filename":["293-030-splice.mp3"],"tapeStart":"01:33:28","tapeEnd":"02:09:23","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")","Bull, Stephen B.","Sanchez, Manolo","White House operator","MacGregor, Clark"],"prevCode":"293-029","nextCode":"293-031","tapeTranscriptFile":"293a.mp3,293b.mp3","transcript":[{"start":5622.68,"end":5626.23,"text":"I was just going to wrap up on Conley's commentary afterwards."},{"start":5626.24,"end":5629.37,"text":"And NBC said, he emphasized three things."},{"start":5629.41,"end":5635.71,"text":"First, he spent six minutes describing improvement in the economy."},{"start":5635.77,"end":5636.01,"text":"Wow."},{"start":5636.05,"end":5642.23,"text":"So confident to instill the worries about the energy."},{"start":5642.27,"end":5644.59,"text":"Secondly, he issued a counter-chance to being a comedian."},{"start":5644.73,"end":5652.12,"text":"Thirdly, he stated his personal disappointment, perhaps even disagreement, with the pay board's acquiescence on the coal tax."},{"start":5654.62,"end":5655.74,"text":"I think that's good to hear."},{"start":5657.4,"end":5663.69,"text":"Kuyker called the performance amazing, saying it was as important politically as it was economically."},{"start":5663.71,"end":5665.87,"text":"The Secretary wrote off me and probably Labor for 72."},{"start":5665.89,"end":5674.37,"text":"Kuyker said the Secretary may still call himself a Democrat, but if he ever wants to run for President, he'll have to find a new party because he'll never get Labor support."},{"start":5674.43,"end":5678.47,"text":"Honestly, he never put that many on for a while."},{"start":5678.65,"end":5679.71,"text":"You know that?"},{"start":5679.73,"end":5679.89,"text":"Kuyker."},{"start":5680.61,"end":5681.23,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":5681.31,"end":5681.99,"text":"That's poor analysis."},{"start":5682.87,"end":5683.07,"text":"It is."},{"start":5683.77,"end":5692.11,"text":"You knew, of course, that John Connelly had the unalterable hatred of the legislature before he ever came here."},{"start":5692.15,"end":5697.24,"text":"Bill Monroe said the secretary, in effect, left the Democrats, and Nixon has decided to run without me, if not via the LCIL."},{"start":5697.34,"end":5705.72,"text":"Carter concluded the secretary used strong words, stronger than he remembers hearing from the administration."},{"start":5705.74,"end":5708.7,"text":"CBS, George Herman called it a pep talk to show how the game plan is working."},{"start":5708.74,"end":5712.65,"text":"Severide said Connelly is absolutely fascinating to watch, an extraordinary performer."},{"start":5713.39,"end":5718.11,"text":"the administration's greatest public breather in public analogous to Kissinger in private."},{"start":5718.71,"end":5721.17,"text":"Eric saw this as a critical time for Tommy's pep talk."},{"start":5721.25,"end":5725.55,"text":"Something like the credibility gap, the confidence gap, uncertainty, and knowledge gap."},{"start":5725.61,"end":5727.81,"text":"People just aren't sure where we're going."},{"start":5727.99,"end":5729.13,"text":"It's a great psychological problem."},{"start":5729.19,"end":5729.89,"text":"Call it what you will."},{"start":5730.65,"end":5732.85,"text":"And something had to be done to promise the best man to do it."},{"start":5733.09,"end":5735.75,"text":"He's convincing and exudes confidence."},{"start":5735.87,"end":5738.97,"text":"His entire personality is this lady's tremendous asset to the administration."},{"start":5740.92,"end":5743.96,"text":"George Nerman felt the hard sell of performance and fascination for a year of performance."},{"start":5744.02,"end":5747.04,"text":"Nerman noted there wasn't much hard news, lots of personal attitudes, but confidence."},{"start":5747.14,"end":5755.02,"text":"Severide's beautiful, practical, creative, likely to be a president, another big race to be coming soon, raising great problems for the champions."},{"start":5755.08,"end":5759.65,"text":"Severide said confidence was put up today to take on meaning personally and directly."},{"start":5759.71,"end":5764.95,"text":"The administration sees meaning and is vulnerable for its confidence."},{"start":5766.83,"end":5773.49,"text":"Eric knows the sympathetic wires to the White House, and clearly expects more trouble with George, so he's seeking to get him down to the side pocket as far as possible now."},{"start":5773.53,"end":5776.23,"text":"Any coach has to have a bill, and a meeting is the administration's."},{"start":5776.25,"end":5783.03,"text":"The CBS man ran the clip of the secretary's criticism of the meeting's business on the midday CBS news."},{"start":5783.07,"end":5790.4,"text":"The consensus of Congress was that of all the women who arrived with Citibank's news letter was total uncertainty."},{"start":5790.46,"end":5795.16,"text":"The consensus is that the jury arrived with a quote, and a reduction on the plot line."},{"start":5796.49,"end":5800.19,"text":"rapid growth and a reduction in unemployment."},{"start":5800.25,"end":5810.58,"text":"The Citibank's newsletter today, which tells both of uncertainty and the still wide consensus that 72 will be geared up."},{"start":5810.62,"end":5818.89,"text":"As ever, I noted that the economic indicators look very good, yet there's widespread psychological"},{"start":5822.66,"end":5831.15,"text":"by the Administration of Political and it was also done by the Constitutional Markets and Campaign Fund of the Administration of the Dilemma on it."},{"start":5831.21,"end":5833.67,"text":"We could upset the power of the leadership of the parties."},{"start":5833.73,"end":5837.51,"text":"Herman found a good line on this issue."},{"start":5837.57,"end":5838.33,"text":"Eric called it a property."},{"start":5838.35,"end":5841.12,"text":"Most of the, it's interesting, like the left wing in lies are all against this too."},{"start":5841.42,"end":5841.6,"text":"Why?"},{"start":5841.62,"end":5841.74,"text":"Why?"},{"start":5842.76,"end":5844.34,"text":"I can't figure it out."},{"start":5844.36,"end":5846.96,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":5846.98,"end":5848.42,"text":"I'm so wrong, but I don't know why they see it."},{"start":5848.44,"end":5850.4,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":5850.46,"end":5851.88,"text":"That's where they've been distanced on it."},{"start":5854.82,"end":5858.56,"text":"There must be something there we understood."},{"start":5858.66,"end":5866.61,"text":"Any see, Bill Gill noted that the Secretary was harsh for his meanness, his civic behavior toward Nixon, and foraged his courteous and ill-becoming version of his position."},{"start":5866.67,"end":5872.85,"text":"Rockhiser said that, as usual, the Secretary was a telecom and vigorous spokesman for the administration, but wonders how much good optimism or approach he stood with."},{"start":5873.13,"end":5881.14,"text":"At this point, though, the paper was full of decisions, but he didn't say what would be done to ease the uncertainty that the country will receive."},{"start":5881.92,"end":5891.53,"text":"The ruckracker was pleased by Commie's remarks that the surcharge might end in weeks rather than months or years, but the administration seems to be hanging in the dark."},{"start":5891.59,"end":5894.71,"text":"But his most startling comment, according to the ruckracker, was on the stock market."},{"start":5894.85,"end":5897.59,"text":"At its lowest point in 12 months, Commie didn't think of that."},{"start":5897.61,"end":5901.88,"text":"Convicting the Secretary of the Union, he said, in relation to member of the AFA's TPA."},{"start":5904.27,"end":5914.44,"text":"Closed by noting the air of suspicion and disrespect that exists between Nixon and Meade, and the latter believes the White House interceded to get the 5.5-way zone."},{"start":5914.48,"end":5926.12,"text":"The other included total communication outside, behind, verbally, in the mix with an ingenious policy with or without labor, though preferably with labor."},{"start":5926.18,"end":5927.28,"text":"Just off the good."},{"start":5932.77,"end":5949.13,"text":"It's about, it's about, it's ideal for him, all patients do this, and it would be ideal for Agnes, but when a person's not allowed to fire, you know, you need to get in there, just, just breathe easy, and kick that coward down."},{"start":5949.19,"end":5953.41,"text":"You don't have to worry about everything else, and Conway just loves to do that."},{"start":5953.9,"end":5955.3,"text":"He's free, free of the burden."},{"start":5960.38,"end":5962.46,"text":"That's why you need a conspire."},{"start":5962.52,"end":5964.2,"text":"You've got to have some people who will."},{"start":5964.28,"end":5969.15,"text":"And he can't be."},{"start":5969.28,"end":5981.33,"text":"If we can get him to lay off or lay off and then watch this wave grow."},{"start":5981.37,"end":5986.08,"text":"Yeah, that's the plan."},{"start":5988.58,"end":5990.9,"text":"I pulled it up and pulled McCloskey up just so he could do his thing."},{"start":5991.64,"end":5998.09,"text":"Could drive him over to the city and shoot him back, McCloskey."},{"start":5998.15,"end":6007.35,"text":"The city was having so much trouble raising campaign funds that he had sold his favorite thing, the major advantage of Donald Trump's in the Delaware."},{"start":6007.39,"end":6010.39,"text":"McCloskey came out and said, thank you for being a traitor."},{"start":6010.51,"end":6014.96,"text":"Thank the vice president for serving the best fundraiser that his interest was liking."},{"start":6015.1,"end":6016.54,"text":"The vice president stirred it up."},{"start":6024.03,"end":6037.1,"text":"It's strange that we've asked, you know, since Roper asked, nothing happens."},{"start":6037.2,"end":6040.26,"text":"Nothing happens at all."},{"start":6040.42,"end":6046.56,"text":"It's no matter who asks the question, and Roper asked it,"},{"start":6050.33,"end":6060.7,"text":"Roper asked it in January, you know, do you feel things in this country are going in the right direction today, or do you feel things have pretty seriously gotten off on the wrong track?"},{"start":6060.76,"end":6062.28,"text":"We kept the same wording."},{"start":6062.36,"end":6066.64,"text":"Roper got 23% right direction, 64% wrong in January."},{"start":6066.7,"end":6068.1,"text":"That's the problem we have now."},{"start":6068.24,"end":6077.63,"text":"We asked it in August, we got 29.63% in the second half, a little higher on the wrong and a little less on the side."},{"start":6078.36,"end":6080.9,"text":"We asked it again in September and got 2764 at the same time."},{"start":6080.96,"end":6084.98,"text":"We didn't, I mean, we didn't pull it."},{"start":6085,"end":6088.52,"text":"We didn't pull approval."},{"start":6088.54,"end":6089.48,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":6089.52,"end":6090.22,"text":"September 7th and 8th."},{"start":6091.48,"end":6094.44,"text":"We pulled approval."},{"start":6094.46,"end":6095.78,"text":"We didn't have any."},{"start":6095.82,"end":6098.08,"text":"It was about June was the last."},{"start":6098.12,"end":6100.74,"text":"No, no, that was the trial date."},{"start":6100.83,"end":6103.35,"text":"We had an approval poll in October, May 1st, and September."},{"start":6104.47,"end":6105.33,"text":"And what did they show?"},{"start":6105.85,"end":6107.35,"text":"May 1st, August, and May 1st, July."},{"start":6108.32,"end":6111.05,"text":"September we had 56-34, that's where we had the 56."},{"start":6111.15,"end":6115.73,"text":"56-34 was September, after the, uh, September 7th."},{"start":6115.75,"end":6116.43,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":6116.55,"end":6117.07,"text":"56-34."},{"start":6117.11,"end":6123.29,"text":"You could put out the undecided there, what do you come up with?"},{"start":6123.41,"end":6125.15,"text":"I'm going to take 33 and do 62."},{"start":6125.17,"end":6125.35,"text":"62-38."},{"start":6125.37,"end":6125.69,"text":"Right."},{"start":6125.71,"end":6125.95,"text":"So..."},{"start":6137.49,"end":6147.12,"text":"About the same as now, but a little better."},{"start":6148.24,"end":6148.74,"text":"Okay."},{"start":6150.6,"end":6156.41,"text":"Anyway, September it was 2764."},{"start":6156.97,"end":6160.95,"text":"Harris folded in the latter part of September and he had 2466."},{"start":6161.89,"end":6164.4,"text":"We put it on this fold and it had 2564."},{"start":6166.35,"end":6175.52,"text":"The interesting thing is that each pollster asks the same question, gets exactly the same, or within a couple points, the same answer, and consistently through this entire year."},{"start":6176.74,"end":6178.94,"text":"What does this mean to you?"},{"start":6179.36,"end":6180.54,"text":"It means there's something."},{"start":6181.16,"end":6189.33,"text":"People have been convinced by the media, I think, that things have gotten off on the wrong track in this country, that things were not generally going in the right direction."},{"start":6189.37,"end":6191.71,"text":"Well, that, of course, is a danger to us."},{"start":6191.79,"end":6192.17,"text":"Yeah, right."},{"start":6193.7,"end":6203.3,"text":"I think that's, that's up many seats I'll bid on approval because I think the president, in a way it's remarkable that only 25%, 25% think things are right and 50% approve the president."},{"start":6203.34,"end":6210.34,"text":"Obviously it's because they think if they're doing your vote or if they're fighting, the same happens."},{"start":6210.62,"end":6210.8,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":6213.18,"end":6216.7,"text":"But it can't help but have a rough effect, I would think, on the president."},{"start":6218.39,"end":6223.53,"text":"in that you are the chief guy responsible for getting things regulated."},{"start":6223.61,"end":6226.31,"text":"How was it in the Icon?"},{"start":6226.33,"end":6228.89,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":6228.91,"end":6232.64,"text":"It's kind of interesting to know what it was in Icon, or what it was in Johnson."},{"start":6232.66,"end":6239.08,"text":"I'm not sure if it was pulled in or not, but it did."},{"start":6239.36,"end":6247.73,"text":"Do you think that once the war has been accepted,"},{"start":6249.9,"end":6252.09,"text":"The federal joke went up a bit, don't you think so?"},{"start":6252.11,"end":6253.27,"text":"I wouldn't think so."},{"start":6253.33,"end":6254.57,"text":"No draftees and that sort of thing."},{"start":6254.61,"end":6258.49,"text":"I think people, again, would be a little better."},{"start":6258.51,"end":6258.97,"text":"That would help."},{"start":6259.09,"end":6261.05,"text":"We make the speech open, and the economy."},{"start":6261.43,"end":6261.61,"text":"What?"},{"start":6261.71,"end":6263.61,"text":"And the economy, and I don't know, the internet."},{"start":6263.67,"end":6268.36,"text":"You don't think the fact that you're starting to get things moving there is, like, a solid announcement?"},{"start":6268.38,"end":6272.94,"text":"Now, on your next poll, I want you to give a question, though, on these programs."},{"start":6273.92,"end":6277.8,"text":"What do you approve or disapprove of right now?"},{"start":6279.34,"end":6281.06,"text":"which I don't think you can even spell it out."},{"start":6281.1,"end":6285.3,"text":"And then if you approve or disapprove, well, on the subject, perhaps they don't know much about it, but you've got to say it first."},{"start":6285.32,"end":6286.16,"text":"I did it the same way."},{"start":6286.19,"end":6287.55,"text":"I know what we have to do in terms of"},{"start":6308.69,"end":6316.69,"text":"I wonder if that just tripped someone just in good will."},{"start":6316.77,"end":6326.96,"text":"The president's, uh, uh, plan to be in became, uh, for the purpose of, uh, for the purpose of, uh, of, uh, what do you want me to say?"},{"start":6326.98,"end":6333.36,"text":"I'll leave it at that."},{"start":6334.49,"end":6337.67,"text":"This one, you really want, you don't want to release it, you just want to know."},{"start":6337.73,"end":6344.01,"text":"No, no, I want to know what they feel, but in order to know what they feel, we've got to have them know how we would posture the trip, what we'd take."},{"start":6344.29,"end":6345.63,"text":"I mean, it's longer as well."},{"start":6345.65,"end":6347.1,"text":"Maybe there's..."},{"start":6347.11,"end":6354.3,"text":"I think they must know what you're overestimating."},{"start":6354.34,"end":6357.36,"text":"President Nixon's announced a journey for peace and response."},{"start":6357.38,"end":6361.05,"text":"No, that blows it."},{"start":6361.11,"end":6361.57,"text":"That blows it."},{"start":6361.61,"end":6362.53,"text":"That's how we want to posture it."},{"start":6362.55,"end":6364.17,"text":"Well, we can say it's better to do it without it."},{"start":6365.27,"end":6365.59,"text":"intentions."},{"start":6365.61,"end":6369.75,"text":"We've got to be a better way forward."},{"start":6369.79,"end":6372.15,"text":"We've got to do the work."},{"start":6372.25,"end":6376.12,"text":"We've got to do the work."},{"start":6376.14,"end":6377.76,"text":"And listen to Carson."},{"start":6377.84,"end":6379.28,"text":"We've got to do good."},{"start":6379.38,"end":6382.94,"text":"It's all about good."},{"start":6383.12,"end":6387.5,"text":"We, when we pulled right after China, didn't have a very strong response that we should have."},{"start":6387.56,"end":6388.89,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":6388.97,"end":6389.31,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":6394.05,"end":6395.31,"text":"I picked up over for about an hour or so."},{"start":6395.33,"end":6396.69,"text":"It was like 86 or something like that."},{"start":6396.71,"end":6398.35,"text":"It wasn't very high, but it was positive."},{"start":6398.37,"end":6399.39,"text":"I wouldn't put cotton as Chinese."},{"start":6400.49,"end":6405.2,"text":"They all know what China is, you know."},{"start":6405.22,"end":6420.4,"text":"He came to me with cotton with Chinese leaders, you know, just in order to associate with Chinese and all that kind of thing."},{"start":6423.08,"end":6424.12,"text":"I mean, he can't stay on this board."},{"start":6424.14,"end":6426.54,"text":"As he said in his own speech, we're going to make labor a state of the art."},{"start":6426.64,"end":6427.76,"text":"And he knows he's got a problem getting off."},{"start":6427.78,"end":6429.98,"text":"The board's pretty hard by saying he's going to stay off but won't cooperate."},{"start":6451.3,"end":6469.88,"text":"The last, the October cold was taken, was 54 by 38 when we had our high-density ."},{"start":6469.94,"end":6472.48,"text":"Nine, 10."},{"start":6481.25,"end":6482.99,"text":"But we had a shift."},{"start":6507.68,"end":6509.6,"text":"52, 38, yeah, downward shift."},{"start":6509.92,"end":6512.1,"text":"Now, this one is 52 still."},{"start":6512.18,"end":6513.08,"text":"33 is the downward shift."},{"start":6513.18,"end":6524.16,"text":"Which is incidentally, one thing you have to figure is this."},{"start":6524.19,"end":6529.43,"text":"The downward shift of 5 is like an upward shift of 8."},{"start":6529.47,"end":6535.41,"text":"Keep going down there."},{"start":6537.35,"end":6557,"text":"The other hand, when you start to think, from the time we've done that one in October, we've had to turn to the banks now."},{"start":6557.88,"end":6564.85,"text":"We've had to still get an officer on the phone."},{"start":6567.68,"end":6568.38,"text":"We have to show them."},{"start":6568.4,"end":6568.98,"text":"We have to show them."},{"start":6569,"end":6569.58,"text":"We have to show them."},{"start":6569.6,"end":6570.2,"text":"We have to show them."},{"start":6570.22,"end":6570.8,"text":"We have to show them."},{"start":6570.82,"end":6571.36,"text":"We have to show them."},{"start":6571.38,"end":6571.96,"text":"We have to show them."},{"start":6596.53,"end":6604.25,"text":"On the negative side, we have the atomic test, which was at the U.N. at the time."},{"start":6604.43,"end":6606.21,"text":"Apparently it was at the U.N."},{"start":6606.33,"end":6608.03,"text":"I don't remember."},{"start":6608.17,"end":6613.4,"text":"All we did there was brush my teeth and ask them to help us out."},{"start":6613.42,"end":6614.28,"text":"That's the problem."},{"start":6627.6,"end":6629.72,"text":"We end up really baffling."},{"start":6629.74,"end":6632.5,"text":"Yes, I would be so sure."},{"start":6632.52,"end":6633.72,"text":"Disapproval now."},{"start":6656.39,"end":6664.33,"text":"My guess is that what really happens here"},{"start":6684.49,"end":6693.28,"text":"The AFL-CIO balanced out the, in terms of the general situation, balanced out the U.N. thing."},{"start":6693.72,"end":6700.66,"text":"It's sort of the same, or we should agree, something has to be balanced out."},{"start":6700.72,"end":6708.02,"text":"The economic drag increased, correct?"},{"start":6710.75,"end":6712.01,"text":"Probably, yeah."},{"start":6712.07,"end":6714.39,"text":"See, your Easter comfort is in education."},{"start":6714.41,"end":6715.73,"text":"The market is going down."},{"start":6715.77,"end":6717.07,"text":"The market is going down."},{"start":6717.1,"end":6718.48,"text":"The market is going down."},{"start":6718.5,"end":6719.64,"text":"The market is going down."},{"start":6719.7,"end":6721.16,"text":"The market is going down."},{"start":6721.36,"end":6722.56,"text":"The market is going down."},{"start":6722.58,"end":6723.76,"text":"The market is going down."},{"start":6736.2,"end":6742.91,"text":"But we also have to realize the political tempo has very substantially increased in this period."},{"start":6743.27,"end":6743.41,"text":"Right."},{"start":6743.77,"end":6746.23,"text":"We've been under pretty rough political events."},{"start":6746.35,"end":6746.91,"text":"That's right."},{"start":6747.01,"end":6748.47,"text":"The whole U.N. period."},{"start":6749.39,"end":6750.07,"text":"That's exactly the point."},{"start":6750.09,"end":6752.87,"text":"We've been under very, very, very, very tough attack."},{"start":6752.91,"end":6757.38,"text":"I noticed, you know, in the Eisenhower popularity, even in 56, in 54, you went down."},{"start":6757.58,"end":6759.32,"text":"In 56, you went down."},{"start":6759.76,"end":6761.18,"text":"In 58, you went down."},{"start":6761.2,"end":6763.12,"text":"In 54, you went down."},{"start":6763.14,"end":6765.52,"text":"In 56, basically..."},{"start":6766.44,"end":6769.8,"text":"During the campaigns, the popularity dropped to 8.3 million."},{"start":6770.04,"end":6770.94,"text":"A lot here."},{"start":6771.38,"end":6774.9,"text":"A lot here in election year, too."},{"start":6774.92,"end":6777.02,"text":"And to be more polarization, more people think of themselves."},{"start":6777.04,"end":6780.36,"text":"And also, when they're attacked, they're going to hurt you."},{"start":6780.74,"end":6783.46,"text":"Correct?"},{"start":6783.54,"end":6783.72,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":6783.96,"end":6790.67,"text":"They're going to hurt you."},{"start":6790.77,"end":6793.15,"text":"They're going to hurt you."},{"start":6795.73,"end":6805.8,"text":"What I'm getting at is, I wonder what we do that tells you to be effective after you have the tumor that the two crypts involved can have on you."},{"start":6805.84,"end":6806.8,"text":"But I'm not so damn sure of that."},{"start":6806.84,"end":6818.75,"text":"I'm not too sure what we're about to do and what we're about to have, but I don't know."},{"start":6818.77,"end":6824.17,"text":"Anyway, we don't think there's anything else that can happen, so that's that."},{"start":6824.19,"end":6825.05,"text":"The great we have found, too,"},{"start":6825.62,"end":6834.46,"text":"that the, that the big, the big exposure we get around the state of New England is not more than a few decades."},{"start":6834.48,"end":6848.02,"text":"The fact that perhaps we need to use more, now we've been on prime time, but we need to use more prime time to try to improve it to an end."},{"start":6849.47,"end":6850.79,"text":"Could be, yes."},{"start":6851.83,"end":6855.01,"text":"We have not gotten the press conference to say nothing, so."},{"start":6855.87,"end":6882.2,"text":"The other point, though, that I do want to raise, remember, we analyzed this once before, and we said, well, we were mystified when we went back to China."},{"start":6883.81,"end":6888.89,"text":"and economically did not change the previous three months, suddenly changed events."},{"start":6890.77,"end":6891.09,"text":"Sure did."},{"start":6891.13,"end":6892.65,"text":"Changed events more or less."},{"start":6892.67,"end":6902.69,"text":"Now it may be that that next is still open, but we're getting comfort, we're getting more back to our constituency."},{"start":6902.71,"end":6907.49,"text":"And labor has to move away from this country, which is a gap."},{"start":6911.08,"end":6912.44,"text":"How about Republican Democrats?"},{"start":6912.52,"end":6914.01,"text":"I don't have to break it down."},{"start":6914.09,"end":6915.25,"text":"I'll have that in a second."},{"start":6915.33,"end":6917.85,"text":"It's interesting on the region."},{"start":6917.91,"end":6928.48,"text":"Again, versus October, where the no change in approval on the national basis, 52 to 52, with a drop of 5 points in the district, 33 to 33."},{"start":6928.5,"end":6932.2,"text":"But in the east, it was 47 to 41, now it's 50 to 39."},{"start":6942.81,"end":6947.09,"text":"In the Midwest, it was 46-42."},{"start":6947.11,"end":6948.19,"text":"Now it's 51-35."},{"start":6948.81,"end":6952.76,"text":"A very big game in the Midwest."},{"start":6952.9,"end":6958.1,"text":"After the fight with Colton, it was 5-0."},{"start":6958.22,"end":6960.34,"text":"I was out."},{"start":6970.41,"end":6972.07,"text":"South lost 59-33, 54-17."},{"start":6972.19,"end":6972.37,"text":"Wow."},{"start":6972.59,"end":6979.5,"text":"A loss in approval, but an even bigger loss in disapproval."},{"start":6979.54,"end":6982.56,"text":"A big move to undecided from the South in 19, undecided from the South."},{"start":6982.64,"end":6983.46,"text":"Very high."},{"start":6984.18,"end":6993.4,"text":"Which I think that if you do your poll over again, you can see undecided."},{"start":6994.43,"end":6997.49,"text":"That could reflect that trouble stuff."},{"start":6997.81,"end":6998.03,"text":"19-19."},{"start":6998.78,"end":7012.42,"text":"It's 2 to 1, so you have to take it down and come out to 65, 35."},{"start":7012.46,"end":7013.38,"text":"Get that dope buggy."},{"start":7013.46,"end":7019.34,"text":"It probably won't be that easy to practice."},{"start":7029.38,"end":7030.72,"text":"I might go over there, you know?"},{"start":7030.74,"end":7030.92,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":7030.94,"end":7032.02,"text":"That'd do it."},{"start":7032.04,"end":7032.58,"text":"That'd do it, sure."},{"start":7058.36,"end":7060.04,"text":"Watch a little practice."},{"start":7060.23,"end":7061.63,"text":"Wish him well."},{"start":7061.65,"end":7062.37,"text":"Do it again."},{"start":7062.71,"end":7065.83,"text":"I think it would be a nice touch to have just lost."},{"start":7066.27,"end":7068.03,"text":"That is really important."},{"start":7068.05,"end":7069.93,"text":"Just go out into the field."},{"start":7069.95,"end":7070.55,"text":"Go by."},{"start":7070.59,"end":7075.32,"text":"You know, he's in pretty good shape of middling."},{"start":7075.34,"end":7078.82,"text":"This is what the Rams win at Saturday."},{"start":7078.86,"end":7080.78,"text":"The Rams win at Thursday."},{"start":7080.86,"end":7084.52,"text":"The Rams beat the Cowboys in the first round."},{"start":7084.54,"end":7087.09,"text":"Which is a bad for the possibility."},{"start":7089.64,"end":7091.36,"text":"I just think that's a nice thing to do."},{"start":7114.43,"end":7130.91,"text":"Did you eat, uh, John, you told John, you know, you wanted to eat with Conway Shelton and him on the, on the budget, and, uh, and, uh, whether you wanted to do that Wednesday morning?"},{"start":7130.95,"end":7131.23,"text":"Sure."},{"start":7131.25,"end":7139.15,"text":"John said that, uh, you also found there were bullies, uh, in general, in any respect."},{"start":7139.23,"end":7141.07,"text":"We, you know, the bullies and all that stuff, uh,"},{"start":7141.88,"end":7149.04,"text":"That, of course, has come to sharply up the leadership that we should have had for a while."},{"start":7149.22,"end":7156.27,"text":"And it's that we have one advantage over the other, and we have more than that for the world."},{"start":7156.31,"end":7158.33,"text":"That's right."},{"start":7158.41,"end":7163.45,"text":"But our grads, we have to realize, this is very important, are not so much the war."},{"start":7163.51,"end":7167.73,"text":"I always felt that the war is going to be real."},{"start":7167.79,"end":7170.23,"text":"It's the causation of everything else."},{"start":7170.25,"end":7171.09,"text":"That's right."},{"start":7172.25,"end":7176.23,"text":"Yeah, which I can speak to your honor about."},{"start":7176.27,"end":7180.29,"text":"With the economy in mind, all we have to do here is fight it."},{"start":7180.33,"end":7183.43,"text":"But we must constantly have that in the public mind."},{"start":7183.49,"end":7187.6,"text":"That's why the international offensive is extremely important."},{"start":7187.66,"end":7190.9,"text":"But we have one throughout the month in December."},{"start":7222.65,"end":7228.59,"text":"You can't just let it up, though."},{"start":7228.79,"end":7246.58,"text":"People that are trying to undo the English thing never quit."},{"start":7251.9,"end":7253.18,"text":"As you can see on his knee, he's got it."},{"start":7253.26,"end":7254.38,"text":"He's doing damn true."},{"start":7254.4,"end":7256.12,"text":"I was trying to say he was nervous."},{"start":7256.24,"end":7258.76,"text":"I thought he was going to try to be smart."},{"start":7258.78,"end":7261.18,"text":"I thought he was going to try to be smart."},{"start":7261.2,"end":7262.43,"text":"I thought he was going to try to be smart."},{"start":7280.84,"end":7285.16,"text":"Oh, my, the third quarter."},{"start":7285.64,"end":7287.63,"text":"Oh, my, oh."},{"start":7287.79,"end":7292.58,"text":"Yeah, if I do it in one day, you know what I'm saying?"},{"start":7292.66,"end":7292.92,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":7335.77,"end":7336.03,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":7360.41,"end":7361.07,"text":"You've got to do it."},{"start":7361.77,"end":7365.04,"text":"One day, you're upset by your wife."},{"start":7365.08,"end":7367.26,"text":"You've got to do it."},{"start":7367.28,"end":7367.42,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":7367.48,"end":7368.73,"text":"You've got to do it."},{"start":7411.58,"end":7413.64,"text":"I just want to make it clear to you that I believe in you and I believe in you."},{"start":7413.66,"end":7414.1,"text":"I believe in you."},{"start":7414.14,"end":7414.6,"text":"I believe in you."},{"start":7414.62,"end":7415.14,"text":"I believe in you."},{"start":7415.16,"end":7415.56,"text":"I believe in you."},{"start":7442.2,"end":7444.44,"text":"They're going to put on a terrible political show."},{"start":7444.46,"end":7455.09,"text":"So they put it down, and it's still going to go by the House."},{"start":7455.11,"end":7455.89,"text":"Will the House take it?"},{"start":7455.91,"end":7456.65,"text":"Will it take that?"},{"start":7457.39,"end":7457.53,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":7457.57,"end":7467.47,"text":"Come on, they thought they could... Well, they let the House kill it, but then they decided they'd better kill it in the Senate instead."},{"start":7467.55,"end":7471.67,"text":"They let the House kill it, but they thought Will would know if he was going to kill it in Congress."},{"start":7472.1,"end":7472.7,"text":"So what else is for it?"},{"start":7472.72,"end":7476.76,"text":"But I'm determined now that because of the enormous consequences of this action, it's a great thing to let people know about it."},{"start":7476.78,"end":7478.12,"text":"It's absolutely the best way to respond."},{"start":7478.16,"end":7480.72,"text":"We just better put it right to them and call back to the session and let them take responsibility."},{"start":7501.92,"end":7507.53,"text":"They have to pass the tax bill, some tax bill, because there's, you know, they can't let it go, I think."},{"start":7507.55,"end":7521.01,"text":"And once they know you can be together, and they know you can be together, they won't try to, they won't try to override it, and there's no chance for them to get it."},{"start":7521.05,"end":7523.46,"text":"They won't let it go."},{"start":7523.98,"end":7527.32,"text":"It's a disaster."},{"start":7527.34,"end":7529.8,"text":"It's a disaster."},{"start":7534.37,"end":7535.79,"text":"Mr. McGregor, please."},{"start":7588.73,"end":7602.31,"text":"I wonder if, uh, uh, this idea of yours is regarded as a fact that they may have a special session present, and it's buried in the basement for some authority."},{"start":7602.41,"end":7610.33,"text":"Why do you think it's too much to hold up there?"},{"start":7610.59,"end":7615.19,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":7615.23,"end":7617.23,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":7617.25,"end":7617.43,"text":"Alright."},{"start":7618.13,"end":7619.05,"text":"But, fine."},{"start":7619.15,"end":7620.71,"text":"It's just going to be there."},{"start":7620.79,"end":7621.97,"text":"It's going to be fine."},{"start":7622.01,"end":7624.75,"text":"There's already plenty I need from Scott's mind."},{"start":7624.77,"end":7627.88,"text":"I don't want to sit on this idea of taking the story."},{"start":7627.9,"end":7629.3,"text":"There's no more."},{"start":7629.42,"end":7632.58,"text":"I know it's the best thing for me to do."},{"start":7632.68,"end":7635.62,"text":"It's not until I'm going to be all alone."},{"start":7635.64,"end":7637.82,"text":"Then when I'm with that period, of course,"},{"start":7649.1,"end":7650.96,"text":"We've always felt you could."},{"start":7651,"end":7652.49,"text":"You could get into here and it wouldn't be that bad."},{"start":7652.51,"end":7657.72,"text":"Yeah, it depends on whether I'm on vacation or if I'm working."},{"start":7684.68,"end":7687.66,"text":"We figure that the Senate and House will be back and the Congress will be back."},{"start":7687.68,"end":7690.61,"text":"It depends on when they go."},{"start":7690.63,"end":7699.71,"text":"The president has given a lot of experience now, figuring out the point very quickly."},{"start":7699.75,"end":7708.23,"text":"Now, the week before, when we heard the idea that the Congress doesn't come back anymore, we also see that they're trying to get us on board."},{"start":7708.25,"end":7711.66,"text":"You know, we've had it here for a long time."},{"start":7711.7,"end":7712.46,"text":"You know, we've just"},{"start":7714.19,"end":7715.43,"text":"Are they meeting with the"},{"start":7745.08,"end":7745.58,"text":"I'll be back in a minute."},{"start":7745.6,"end":7745.9,"text":"It's 3 o'clock."},{"start":7745.92,"end":7746.02,"text":"Okay."}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":5608,"end":7763,"startMethod":"llm-alignment","endMethod":"llm-alignment"},"transcriptConfidence":"high","transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with H.R. Haldeman and other staff members to review the political impact of Treasury Secretary John Connally's recent press conference and the broader public perception of the administration’s economic and foreign policies. The discussion focused on analyzing negative polling data, evaluating the administration's tense relationship with George Meany and the AFL-CIO, and strategizing on how to manage legislative priorities, specifically the pending tax bill. Nixon decided to pressure Congress to finalize the tax legislation, potentially calling a special session to force the issue and hold lawmakers accountable for its passage.","topics":["John Connally","George Meany","National Economy","Public Opinion Polls","Tax Legislation","AFL-CIO","Congressional Relations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T13:46:48.836Z"},"topicSlugs":["john-connally","george-meany","national-economy","public-opinion-polls","tax-legislation","afl-cio","congressional-relations"],"audioDurationSec":2158,"audioFiles":[{"file":"293-030-splice.mp3","bytes":34528071,"durationSec":2157.98,"bitrate":128001,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:35.265Z","originalFilename":["293a.mp3","293b.mp3"],"spliceSource":{"spliceType":"bigtape","sourceFiles":["293a.mp3","293b.mp3"],"cutStart":5606.5,"cutEnd":7764.5,"adjustedStart":5606.5,"adjustedEnd":7764.5,"boundaryMethod":"llm-alignment","confidence":"high","splicedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:35.265Z"},"transcriptPrev":{"segments":366,"replacedAt":"2026-09-18T14:14:24.732Z"},"audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/293-030-splice.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/293-030","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/293/conversation-293-030","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}