{"conversationCode":"294-023","tapeNumber":294,"conversationNumber":23,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-294-023","startDateTime":"1971-11-18T21:50:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-11-18T21:54:00.000Z","startDate":"18-Nov-1971","startTime":"4:50 PM","endDate":"18-Nov-1971","endTime":"4:54 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Mitchell, John N.; Rumsfeld, Donald H.;","description":"On November 18, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, John N. Mitchell, and Donald H. Rumsfeld met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 4:50 pm and 4:54 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 294-023 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 294-23\n\nDate: November 18, 1971\nTime: Unknown between 4:50 pm and 4:54 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with John N. Mitchell and Donald H. Rumsfeld.\n\n     [General conversation]\n\n     Pending legislation\n          -Tax check-off for political campaigns\n               -Clark MacGregor\n               -Charles McC. Mathias, Jr.’s motion\n               -MacGregor's efforts\n                      -Possible veto\n               -Possible veto\n               -Provisions\n               -James O. Eastland\n               -Possible veto\n               -Mitchell's forthcoming call to John B. Connally\n                      -MacGregor\n\nMitchell left at an unknown time before 4:54 pm.\n\n     Illinois\n           -Poll\n\nStephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:50 pm.\n\n     The President's schedule\n          -Joel T. Broyhill, William E. Timmons and Egil G. (“Bud”) Krogh, Jr.\n          -Rumsfeld and Mitchell\n\nRumsfeld and Bull left at an unknown time before 4:54 pm.","filename":["294-023-splice.mp3"],"tapeStart":"05:17:41","tapeEnd":"05:22:41","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Mitchell, John N.","Rumsfeld, Donald H."],"prevCode":"294-022","nextCode":"294-024","tapeTranscriptFile":"294a.mp3,294b.mp3,294c.mp3,294d.mp3","transcript":[{"start":19382.94,"end":19383.36,"text":"Hi, Tom."},{"start":19384.54,"end":19386.94,"text":"How you doing?"},{"start":19387.3,"end":19387.66,"text":"Good."},{"start":19388.24,"end":19388.98,"text":"Can I interrupt?"},{"start":19389.14,"end":19391.36,"text":"Do you want to talk about this?"},{"start":19391.48,"end":19391.84,"text":"Sure."},{"start":19392.47,"end":19398.51,"text":"What's going on up on the hill in connection with this tax checkoff?"},{"start":19398.91,"end":19399.35,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":19401.09,"end":19404.99,"text":"Uh, we're trying to get the votes to swing it the other way."},{"start":19405.75,"end":19407.26,"text":"Marcus... Hossford."},{"start":19407.76,"end":19408.02,"text":"Pardon?"},{"start":19408.62,"end":19409.62,"text":"Hossford."},{"start":19410.1,"end":19410.18,"text":"No."},{"start":19410.22,"end":19412.54,"text":"No, it was already Eddington."},{"start":19412.56,"end":19423.33,"text":"Uh, they voted against the Mathias motion to show the party's right on one title, but when the two titles were built and if you had a different ballroom."},{"start":19423.35,"end":19424.97,"text":"Right."},{"start":19424.99,"end":19427.83,"text":"So, and while I was trying to help them up there with their lobbying,"},{"start":19428.97,"end":19437,"text":"Clark McGregor called me, he was in Scott's office, and he was such into what they're talking about."},{"start":19437.12,"end":19451.39,"text":"For us then, it is feasible for somebody up there to put the thought in one's mind that this is so important to you in the re-election process that you might have to veto this package."},{"start":19451.41,"end":19455.97,"text":"I know that you've got all those other minds,"},{"start":19457.34,"end":19458.12,"text":"I don't."},{"start":19458.38,"end":19465.49,"text":"They say that they could sort it out and re-enact the tax legislation."},{"start":19465.51,"end":19473.06,"text":"I think he has too much right in the tax system for that to be terrible."},{"start":19473.12,"end":19474.68,"text":"I don't think he's done anything."},{"start":19475.22,"end":19481.82,"text":"And I don't think he's done too great a job."},{"start":19483.26,"end":19484.49,"text":"It's important to the economy."},{"start":19484.55,"end":19487.91,"text":"Well, the job side of the economy is the part that, to me, is more important than the other."},{"start":19488.03,"end":19496.08,"text":"And you've got that data exercise, you've got the investment tax credit level, the crack they put in for it."},{"start":19497.18,"end":19500.48,"text":"That'd be a real gut ball trying to veto that at the end of the session."},{"start":19500.6,"end":19503.48,"text":"And hoping they could get it back together."},{"start":19503.52,"end":19504.14,"text":"You never know."},{"start":19504.18,"end":19504.93,"text":"They would not do it."},{"start":19506.61,"end":19508.55,"text":"Then if you vetoed it on that ground, we'd have one hell of a problem."},{"start":19508.83,"end":19515.17,"text":"People would think we were doing that for a period of political reasons."},{"start":19515.25,"end":19515.97,"text":"Well, that's all correct."},{"start":19515.99,"end":19518.61,"text":"I'm sure that you weren't going to put any subjectives down for long."},{"start":19518.69,"end":19521.6,"text":"You might veto it unless there was some credibility behind it."},{"start":19521.62,"end":19522.02,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":19522.46,"end":19522.86,"text":"That's good."},{"start":19522.88,"end":19528.54,"text":"We'll get back to that."},{"start":19531.74,"end":19533.02,"text":"How many?"},{"start":19533.04,"end":19534.76,"text":"Ten percent or something."},{"start":19534.84,"end":19543.76,"text":"Oh, it's a combination of splinter parties that walk to the other side."},{"start":19543.8,"end":19545.48,"text":"Every splinter party gets something."},{"start":19545.5,"end":19548.72,"text":"But about the black parties, they get something."},{"start":19548.74,"end":19550.68,"text":"I've heard they had to run the last campaign."},{"start":19550.82,"end":19554.08,"text":"I'm not quite sure, but it was a floor of men."},{"start":19554.44,"end":19557.08,"text":"Oh, it's unbelievable."},{"start":19557.1,"end":19558.5,"text":"It's unbelievable."},{"start":19560.65,"end":19565.97,"text":"I still don't think they have some votes at the meeting."},{"start":19565.99,"end":19567.97,"text":"We've lost about three votes."},{"start":19567.99,"end":19576.64,"text":"Although, you know, the Democrats have been looking around."},{"start":19577.02,"end":19579.42,"text":"I don't think it's incredible."},{"start":19579.44,"end":19581.36,"text":"I don't think that's what people are doing."},{"start":19582.36,"end":19586.46,"text":"Well, I've got some prayers, so they don't sit up there and hope for that."},{"start":19586.48,"end":19587.26,"text":"Let me ask you this."},{"start":19587.28,"end":19588.48,"text":"I wonder if you get this."},{"start":19589.36,"end":19597.47,"text":"get a cuddling on the phone, and ask him what he thinks."},{"start":19597.49,"end":19597.93,"text":"That's incredible."},{"start":19597.95,"end":19599.17,"text":"I asked Bart to do that, but he won't do it."},{"start":19599.19,"end":19599.99,"text":"Why don't you talk to him?"},{"start":19600.01,"end":19602.58,"text":"Tell him that you asked me and that I asked you to check with him."},{"start":19604.42,"end":19605.52,"text":"And that'll let him in on the play."},{"start":19605.54,"end":19609.94,"text":"He says he can screw the thing up anyway."},{"start":19611.26,"end":19614.65,"text":"You saw the pole for all the way."},{"start":19614.67,"end":19614.87,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":19619.19,"end":19637.65,"text":"I've been out there now four or five times, and I've seen a situation like this."},{"start":19644.39,"end":19650.53,"text":"If you wait, if you listen to John out here, we'll tell you right away."}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":19380,"end":19644,"startMethod":"llm-alignment","endMethod":"llm-alignment"},"transcriptConfidence":"high","transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with John N. Mitchell and Donald H. Rumsfeld to deliberate on pending legislation, specifically focusing on the potential veto of a tax check-off provision for political campaigns. The participants discussed legislative strategies involving Clark MacGregor and Senator Charles McC. Mathias, Jr., as well as coordination efforts with John B. Connally. Additionally, the group briefly reviewed polling data from Illinois and discussed updates to the President's upcoming schedule.","topics":["Tax check-off legislation","Presidential veto","Political campaign finance","John B. Connally","Illinois polls"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T13:49:38.084Z"},"topicSlugs":["tax-check-off-legislation","presidential-veto","political-campaign-finance","john-b-connally","illinois-polls"],"audioDurationSec":267,"audioFiles":[{"file":"294-023-splice.mp3","bytes":4272423,"durationSec":267,"bitrate":128013,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:36.038Z","originalFilename":["294a.mp3","294b.mp3","294c.mp3","294d.mp3"],"spliceSource":{"spliceType":"bigtape","sourceFiles":["294c.mp3"],"cutStart":19378.5,"cutEnd":19645.5,"adjustedStart":19378.5,"adjustedEnd":19645.5,"boundaryMethod":"llm-alignment","confidence":"high","splicedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:36.038Z"},"transcriptPrev":{"segments":65,"replacedAt":"2026-09-18T14:14:28.188Z"},"audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/294-023-splice.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/294-023","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/294/conversation-294-023","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}