Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 299-015
Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1971 at 2:51 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; White House operator; Daley, Richard J.
Recording device: Old Executive Office Building
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/299-015

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[22:41] I can prove you that, I can tell you that.
[22:43] Right?
[22:45] Okay.
[22:46] Well, it sounded like a great success yesterday, I thought.
[22:50] I thought what you said about an egg, for example, was very helpful.
[22:54] And this morning, the TV shows gave it a very respectful treatment.
[22:59] The Chitka thing in Chicago was very nice.
[23:03] It just used to be on a wheel for vendors coming here from the environment.
[23:10] Well, the Chitka thing, I think, is very designed.
[23:12] It's not going to come moving in.
[23:13] It's just...
[23:15] He said, well, he has to walk me away before the entrance gets in.
[23:18] Well, he's got to go back to the ground floor.
[23:23] I saw a man with a broom pole from time yesterday.
[23:25] Time had an elegant reception here for the iron man.
[23:29] I went in for him.
[23:31] He took me aside.
[23:32] He said he wanted to know if I'd make you man of the year this year.
[23:39] Unless you don't.
[23:39] All of you said there's just no choice.
[23:43] And I wondered whether you'd give them an interview.
[23:46] I said, no, look, I can't go to the president and say it's a condition.
[23:50] He said, no, he's managed it in that sense.
[23:53] He probably wants to give an interview on that issue.
[23:56] He thinks it would be good, but I don't think he's going to receive it.
[24:02] What I wanted to talk to you is layered in our strategy on it.
[24:07] Now, I think we should treat him
[24:11] tender loving care, but you and I will know what the stiletto treatment is.
[24:15] Now, second, of course, he has pissed away everything we've got here, and we're really, we've really got this damn announcement, so it's real tough for me to go out and make it.
[24:26] But, in other words, he's already indicated that we ought to increase it, and I'm afraid whatever we say, he'll reach out and get out and get it more.
[24:34] The other thing is, I noticed that outside on an 18-stroke, where he said the
[24:40] that the president would probably announce the end of ground combat.
[24:44] Well, for Christ's sakes, he's already announced the end of ground combat.
[24:48] And I think, question?
[24:50] It's already been done.
[24:50] He's made that decision.
[24:52] If anybody asks me about ground combat, I have a question.
[24:54] I'm not so big on your safety.
[24:55] But generally, if you can tell from our casualties, our forces, now are in some defensive positions, we're not engaged.
[25:05] That would not make a difference.
[25:07] No, there's nothing there now.
[25:08] Now, let me come to this.
[25:09] I've been trying to make it a way of surprising a little.
[25:12] The firing position had me.
[25:13] Assuming that our number is not too high.
[25:20] I don't mean a big number, but more than so it is only too much to stand.
[25:33] It may compel a lot of differences.
[25:36] whether, does one month overall make one difference?
[25:40] Let me put it this way.
[25:43] The announcement for two months.
[25:50] That doesn't affect the bargaining.
[25:52] I'm talking about the projection of the figure now goes to the 1st of September.
[25:58] Suppose the projection of the figure goes to the 1st of August.
[26:01] Understand we're still having in the whole card
[26:05] residuals and all the rest and so forth.
[26:07] So I don't know what to do now.
[26:13] I would like to frankly want to vote Laird and Rogers on this.
[26:14] And, incidentally, the Congress.
[26:19] You see, the Congress has already, you said they were there, they're already looking at like $20,000.
[26:23] I was thinking of announcing, thinking that we might amount to $45,000.
[26:33] So, Puma, yes.
[26:35] But that means if you reject it, you're out for the first of August rather than the first of September.
[26:40] So what difference does $5,000 more make with what you've come down to?
[26:47] I don't want to breed into any of these fellows.
[26:49] I want to get Laird here in position so that he recommends $20,000.
[26:52] Is that my point?
[26:55] If we want to do this, then you and I, just between us, will tell both of them a half hour before I decide to do the $40,000.
[27:04] I don't think it bothered your game plan to deal with the fact that 45, we still have our 145, and we make the next announcement.
[27:10] The rest, I don't think the difference between 40 and 45 is all that big.
[27:13] And the difference between the birds of Oz and the birds of September, I don't think is that big.
[27:18] Well, you wouldn't expose you to going to the verses.
[27:20] You could still say five verses, but that would be about 40,000.
[27:27] No, no, I'm not going to say that, Mark.
[27:29] No, no, it's a lot.
[27:31] Oh, yes, yes, yes.
[27:34] If we wanted to, or we could say, no, we could say that by the 1st of May or whatever it is, we got 40,000 and keep that there.
[27:40] My point is, I think that the 45,000 might give a, it just frankly shows that we are taking the initiative.
[27:48] I have control of this damn shot.
[27:52] And then we'll do what we please.
[27:55] I mean, the residual force is what, you know, you realize now, all we've got is residual force right now.
[28:02] I'm not concerned.
[28:04] Frank, I don't know.
[28:05] I'm not concerned.
[28:08] We haven't had any meetings with you.
[28:11] The interest is that I had.
[28:13] This has been arranged for four weeks.
[28:15] Gabby arranged it.
[28:16] I had dinner last night with the board of editors of Newsweek.
[28:21] They all came down.
[28:22] I frankly thank you.
[28:24] You said 30.
[28:24] I'm not recommending now.
[28:27] You are in great shape with the announcement.
[28:30] You're not mistaking the expense
[28:32] They didn't raise Vietnam until two hours into the conversation.
[28:34] Well, we have the problem that as far as the country is concerned, we may have seen that Harris Bowl, which we think is accurate because we're now in alignment together.
[28:44] But that shows that, well, it's just one of those damn things that we're, that the support for what we're doing, that doesn't affect me one whit.
[28:53] It doesn't affect Congress.
[28:55] That's my point.
[28:58] Now, if we go to 45, it will be
[29:01] This is one of the few times the number will be a real surprise.
[29:06] Everybody, you know, when Ford and others talk of 20, that's certainly, Ford wouldn't do that unless Larry was put him up to it.
[29:18] And just between us, if it's all right with you, let's go for 45.
[29:21] But you put it up, you would say the price would be about 45, but for only two months.
[29:27] You already told him only two months.
[29:29] We're going to go to 45 in two months.
[29:33] And then it leads to a bigger running rope at the other end of the pipeline.
[29:36] And there, McGregor is almost impossible to move in.
[29:42] McGregor has been going around saying, after November 15th, Congress will be on the back of the Constitution.
[29:50] But of course, that's for the Congress to try to... McGregor was there when I talked to Ford, when I said...
[29:59] Huh?
[30:00] I think Leggett and McGregor could be some of those two kind of doctors.
[30:07] No.
[30:07] McGregor must have seen the report.
[30:09] It could be him lying.
[30:09] McGregor, uh... Now.
[30:10] Oh, yeah.
[30:10] Now, now.
[30:11] Yeah.
[30:18] Uh, his secretary is...
[30:20] I don't have it.
[30:20] I can talk to his secretary now.
[30:29] Yeah.
[30:32] i think i think we can always try okay i unless i haven't just done it i figured it out it's a burden rather than the purchase september see 2500 more per month actually and it's up to the youth
[30:53] so that all horses would be out if you continued at the rate of 22,500 for the balance of the courage.
[31:00] It figured out exactly that in the first month, one month early.
[31:04] And also, frankly, another thing is, it's a month before the campaign, which is another one.
[31:15] It's right at the, right at the saying end of the Democratic Convention.
[31:22] and everybody will, you know what I mean, like quite a different, removes the issue, removes it so totally.
[31:28] I just like, I just think we, we're now, we've never played, we've never played with these figures politically before, but I think now we can afford a little playing politically, just a little from our standpoint.
[31:39] I mean, we've, you know, we've put a bill on, but we've been goddamn responsible not to try to figure out what day we're fixing to do it.
[31:48] I mean, one of the two
[31:52] We will although I'm not going to tell the president right now.
[32:13] I'm not going to tell him yes or no or baby.
[32:20] Everybody is
[32:23] And you and I know it damn well we're gonna have residual force.
[32:27] Unless we get an agreement.
[32:33] Assuming we get an agreement, and an agreement, that of course means the POWs all of them, then we don't have, we have to be careful that we say more than that, that we can't make it just the POWs.
[32:48] Oh, no, no, no, the press conference has to be
[32:52] I'm not even going to say that POWs are not going to say, well, it will depend on the criteria.
[32:58] I've always laid down the level of violence, the level of oppression, the safety of our remaining forces, the POWs and their negotiations.
[33:09] You know, I'll post the goddamn thing.
[33:10] I'm not going to always do it.
[33:12] Otherwise, if I say POWs were prisoners, we're playing the Congress' hand, too.
[33:19] They'd never agree to that anyway.
[33:21] I'm going to nail that one again.
[33:24] No, I have no problem with that.
[33:26] No, I plan to be very, very, very, you see, I'm going to be, with an announcement of that type, it's going to be extremely hard.
[33:33] It's going to be goddamn hard for our critics then.
[33:38] So they'll say, well, you work pretty well here.
[33:44] You breathe pretty well.
[33:45] What are they going to scream about then?
[33:47] I frankly think your home freedom is enough, no matter what you say.
[33:50] I want to do it all so that this is from Larry Brown.
[33:52] I really do.
[33:55] Next time I'm not going to tell Larry, I'm not going to tell Gordon, I'm not going to tell Rocky, anybody, until I have more of a board.
[33:58] If you back-channel this out there, say the president, I'll tell you what she's going to hang on the Christmas table.
[34:04] If that wasn't for the Jews, the president wanted to have an extra $5,000 for Christmas, we were making another $5,000.
[34:16] That's the way I did it on the table.
[34:21] But on your newsweek thing, you were pleased with everything.
[34:28] I didn't think it was going to be good.
[34:32] I handled, I thought, my remarks were very clear.
[34:38] But I handled the Chinese and Russians with great respect.
[34:46] I look pretty good still.
[34:47] I don't know how you really heard what I said.
[34:50] I didn't see the text.
[34:51] I don't know about what I said.
[34:52] I said, Verizon, we have an honor.
[34:53] We're speaking of our goal of regeneration.
[34:58] We've taken the first step.
[35:02] We're on our way to the future.
[35:08] They deal with the century rather than the town.
[35:12] And I said that the leaders of Moscow, the generation of Moscow, came.
[35:17] are not generally emphasized in some very profound ways between our nation and theirs, because we have a different view of international policy, foreign policy, and not necessarily that of the United States.
[35:30] We are faced with this choice.
[35:31] We haven't had a policy, a policy of continued confrontation between the United States and the Soviet Union on the one hand and the United States and the United States Republic on the other hand.
[35:44] would rather have an acceptable risk of war or some kind in the future.
[35:53] Negotiation provides a chance to peace.
[35:58] We have, we owe it to future generations to take, to seize that chance, just like it did back then.
[36:04] I don't appreciate that.
[36:07] He knows that's what it is.
[36:08] That's the game, isn't it?
[36:10] But I keep emphasizing the profound difference that we have.
[36:13] We do have a
[36:15] I had told Nelson I was going to have dinner with him tonight.
[36:21] He was going to send me to Japan.
[36:24] I told him I was supposed to go to Japan and then he came.
[36:26] But then then all of a sudden, there's no time to be here.
[36:33] I'm supposed to be here, so every day I'm supposed to be here.
[36:36] I have hope.
[36:37] Hope because of the trip.
[36:40] Yeah.
[36:40] I'm pretty much proud of that.
[36:46] I hate him, too.
[36:49] Sure, Michael.
[36:51] You know, Rodgers made a plan for you about having a seat at Michael's house.
[36:54] You did?
[36:55] You should.
[36:56] Well, on Monday, about that China, about that kind of thing, you know.
[37:00] Oh, you had her up the wall?
[37:01] Oh, well, I just want you to know about it.
[37:04] Well, I thought you'd say Michael, but you don't understand.
[37:09] Well, at least I've been honest about it.
[37:12] Of course, I've heard a few things.
[37:15] The, uh, uh, the next state ambassador called and asked about it.
[37:23] They heard about it.
[37:25] The New Street people, incidentally, interviewed with this guy.
[37:27] He changed their position about it.
[37:29] Yeah.
[37:29] Hello?
[37:31] Mr. Mayor, I didn't want to bother you, but to tell you that I did appreciate the, uh, getting the fine and bonus next night.
[37:40] We knew this was a political trip, and we didn't expect that nice sign out there saying, welcome, President Ms. Nixon.
[37:47] I said, well, you don't know the mayor.
[37:49] He treats us real nice.
[37:53] Right.
[37:55] But incidentally, let me ask you, well, you do know this, but I was very nonpartisan.
[37:59] You could have agreed with everything I said about, you know, strong national defense and that sort of thing.
[38:04] Let me ask you, is your son getting married, one of them?
[38:08] When is that?
[38:09] Very soon.
[38:11] Oh, I see.
[38:11] I see.
[38:12] Well, I wish him well.
[38:14] And, uh, when we get the date, we'll send him over.
[38:18] So, well, Mr. Riley's awful good, and that big, uh, that big chief, that big tall fellow, he was great.
[38:26] All right, thank you.
[38:27] I'd better get over and get this, uh, we have to send the case here to you.
[38:32] The one thing I must say in fairness is, if our people start pushing out the idea that we're gonna be out by August 3rd,
[38:40] Colson and his company are going to do that.
[38:44] Colson is going to push anything?
[38:46] They're going to be in trouble if they come on.
[38:50] Oh, they'll push?
[38:51] It's not a damn thing.
[38:53] As long as the idea that there'll be a residual force is dominant, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference whether we get a residual force.
[39:01] The residual force is your only weapon to get a negotiation.
[39:07] It's the only thing.
[39:07] Without that...
[39:09] about Iga Viva's now two weeks of headlines.
[39:11] I'll play with that.
[39:11] That is my one concern.
[39:13] But I frankly do not think it's going to trouble the press.
[39:17] Well, Henry, with regard to that, we're now impressed.
[39:22] With regard to that, I'm courting them.
[39:24] They were out the first of September.
[39:26] What's there going to be one month of that?
[39:29] I don't know.
[39:30] I don't know.
[39:36] I think we can handle 5,000, but let me catch the telegram before it goes down.
[39:41] And I'll be right over.