Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 299-019
Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1971 at 3:16 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Laird, Melvin R.; White House operator; Kissinger, Henry A.; Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Bull, Stephen B.
Recording device: Old Executive Office Building
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/299-019

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[42:22] Bill, how are you?
[42:23] Welcome back.
[42:25] Welcome back.
[42:26] Sit down, sit down.
[42:27] Did you have a good night?
[42:29] Good night.
[42:31] You're not quite used to flipping around.
[42:38] I figured I'd start my speech in Chicago five minutes before Washington time.
[42:46] That's good.
[42:47] That's all right.
[42:48] Good night.
[42:51] They made their money.
[42:52] Hello?
[42:52] Oh, that's all right.
[43:00] I'll call them.
[43:02] Well, your last trip here was a long trip.
[43:10] Oh.
[43:10] I had to shift my...
[43:15] When I left, you had to put down a few of those.
[43:19] thoughts on that European paper.
[43:22] Good, good one.
[43:23] I'll just give that to you because it's just clear.
[43:28] I got it.
[43:30] I haven't given one to him yet.
[43:38] I'd like to give it to him first.
[43:43] Let me just read it.
[43:46] I don't want to get .
[43:49] This is the report that you delivered.
[43:59] So you don't want to go there.
[44:06] It's close to the Morrishville area.
[44:09] But he went on to Cambodia and then Thailand.
[44:15] Then he went up to Laos and he's a civilian.
[44:21] I don't know where he went to Laos.
[44:26] He stopped in Japan today.
[44:33] The situation in Vietnam is much better, should it not have been.
[45:04] The one who was in charge, you know, all that crap about the election and, you know, it turned out we didn't want it that way, but it turned out it was better because what the hell they understand is only here.
[45:19] They may not understand it, but there they put the people, the government, the young ministers, and I mentioned them all, the young ministers, the high ministers, they're all good men.
[45:32] uh, not all of our schools except for the one at Des Moines School, but they're good young men, they're tough, and, uh, they look upon the school's election and its election process as a great mandate.
[45:55] And, uh... Well, the communists have elections, there's nobody running, and it's a mandate.
[46:00] Well, they look at it that way.
[46:02] And also they had a couple of certain questions that turned out very good.
[46:08] They could have decided to boycott, but they didn't.
[46:11] Well, there could have been more balances for destroying.
[46:14] That's what I meant by boycott.
[46:15] There were a few places where they overdid it, but they said, you know, that's, you know, they were in the wrong picture.
[46:22] So there's nothing wrong with steel, I don't think I understood.
[46:26] That's a very, very good shift.
[46:28] Militarily, I was supposed to... Militarily, it's...
[46:31] The military region one is very, you know, the military region four in the south and down there is very good.
[46:42] Two is coming along, those three in Michigan, two of course, and they're not, two of the three in Michigan.
[46:53] Two with light attention, maybe after this year,
[46:57] to replace them with one initiative that would support an efficient solution for him.
[47:03] We paid $300 million for those two initiatives out of the defense's own budget.
[47:08] And that's not even rolling in the Congress.
[47:10] I don't even know what that was in any money.
[47:12] We got that buried in the defense budget because it was a deal with Clark Clifton and I and Taylor and they had the time and the budget to do it in a hurry.
[47:23] they are not as good a division as two would like.
[47:27] And eventually, he would like to have one more division in the military.
[47:32] What Mel is talking about is a very interesting point.
[47:37] These damn Korean divisions.
[47:40] I didn't know that.
[47:42] He says that we've been paying $300 million a year, a deal that Taylor made.
[47:49] And if two would like to have the $300 million,
[47:52] He would like to have another position until the next year, 72 or 73.
[47:58] He would like to continue it.
[48:04] He is not even urging that too hard.
[48:08] He feels that we get held up for more money.
[48:11] Let me ask you this now.
[48:13] Isn't it easier in terms of getting the money?
[48:19] subsidizing koreans and subsidizing the vietnamese now that's important i don't tell the congress that we're subsidizing koreans and i can't but i'm asking the question true but where did the 300 come from what i meant is getting the 300 comes out of the massive program and it looks like it's part of the result of the south koreans
[48:44] We tie it all in with that report.
[48:47] It all leads to that month.
[48:48] Now, this isn't anything we have to do now.
[48:52] But he raised the subject.
[48:53] He raised the subject.
[48:54] He would like to have another division there.
[48:58] Division that's in the division.
[49:00] You said that the Koreans lost any connections at all?
[49:05] Well, they're not moving very much.
[49:07] But have they ever lost any?
[49:08] But the South Koreans and the East aren't moving.
[49:11] Well, I know they're losing.
[49:12] Their plans for their military operations
[49:15] in the next six months are a good point.
[49:18] Tommy, I noticed their casualties at a time that are very, very low.
[49:21] They're leveled around 10 or less.
[49:23] Their casualties are still right at 9,100.
[49:26] Yes, up to 195, I think.
[49:27] But anyway, how are they losing all of what's happening?
[49:33] Is that because of their actions or because they're out doing the patrolling and so forth, the search and destroy missions that we used to do?
[49:43] They're doing that.
[49:44] They're bullying me.
[49:45] Don't we want them to do that?
[49:47] Yes, we do.
[49:48] Oh, yeah.
[49:48] And they're doing that.
[49:50] I don't think, if you go back to the Green Division, they can replace them in 72.
[49:58] We've gone over that 65 times.
[50:00] Well... At the end of 72.
[50:01] Well, I think the fiscal, the way you see it, it's probably fiscal.
[50:04] Well, we'll put you on top of fiscal year.
[50:06] Fiscal year, July.
[50:07] I think we could probably go through all of 72, too.
[50:11] 72, yeah.
[50:11] The point was, too a lot of me will prove another position to take the place.
[50:16] I didn't do it while I was there, and I felt I should have discussed that a little bit over.
[50:24] And I know General Abrams' staff sent us in his recommendation.
[50:29] And so that'll be something we won't have in the face of the future.
[50:37] The thing that I'm concerned about now is, you know, getting the money to subsidize South Vietnam is going to become as hell anyway we can bury other places.
[50:45] I have to bury the strand of grain in South Vietnam.
[50:49] That's in South Vietnam.
[50:50] I don't have it in the grain.
[50:51] No, you understand that.
[50:54] I have that buried in South Vietnam money.
[50:57] The $300 million?
[50:57] The $300 million is there now in the massive funding.
[51:00] It is not in the Korean section.
[51:03] Well, let me...
[51:04] I don't know.
[51:05] I think we ought to look at that in terms of... You see, it's where...
[51:10] It's how we get the money.
[51:11] And I...
[51:12] I mean, look at this.
[51:13] If he...
[51:14] If he had no political sense, we cannot...
[51:18] If we look to Korea next year, on top of all this trouble, I don't know if the people can stand over it.
[51:26] Wait a minute.
[51:27] Wait a minute.
[51:27] Wait a minute.
[51:28] All right.
[51:29] I understand that.
[51:29] We've already got to create a new division for MR1.
[51:32] And that's coming along.
[51:33] And that's coming along.
[51:34] We have all the equipment there, and we have to leave.
[51:36] As soon as the MR1 division is formed, then we should go to the MR2 division, and then we should let the Koreans go.
[51:44] That's what we're saying.
[51:45] But until the MR2 division is completed, the Koreans would not be permitted to go.
[51:51] Well, that's right.
[51:53] Well, let's remember now that I said that.
[51:55] We've got to just be sure it survives now.
[51:57] I don't want us to come down this long road at this point.
[51:59] Believe me, what a heartbreaker it would be.
[52:01] And then to let the damn thing go down in two.
[52:03] You know, we fought too many bloody battles.
[52:05] I have no problems as far as the military situation.
[52:08] I was not comfortable about the economic problems in Vietnam.
[52:11] I was not comfortable about the military.
[52:18] And if Abrams is about the military, he has never been this confident.
[52:24] The general staff, generals in all the way down and some of those younger generals serving on the general staff, have never been as confident as they are today.
[52:35] How are we going to treat them now?
[52:40] How are we going to treat them?
[52:42] They're weak right now.
[52:43] But there's no reason that they can't take some action.
[52:48] They're in condition to do that.
[52:51] It's beginning to pick up now.
[52:54] But not in any massive numbers or nothing like that.
[52:57] I have all those figures in the report.
[53:00] The projections as to where they'll be now, whether they'll be six months from now.
[53:07] I think it's pretty well done.
[53:10] This is about the information.
[53:12] The point we have to continue to have as far as the interdiction campaign is concerned, the
[53:23] South Vietnamese are prepared to do a better job in their mission this Friday's meeting than any other time.
[53:33] I didn't hear anything on the ground.
[53:35] They will be doing these short missions, which they believe they can do even in a month.
[53:41] They were very successful most of the last time in the operational years, can't believe it.
[53:48] And the casualties, which were suffered by the North Vietnamese there,
[53:53] I am sure from actual pictures that they are well over the top.
[54:00] Jesus Christ.
[54:01] And they've done well in that operation.
[54:04] That really was a fascinating thing because they were getting ready to do any of that.
[54:09] So I'm sure you should bring in a good shot on that.
[54:17] The situation of the military is that now, this for the first time, I went out to the distance base
[54:25] And there would be retrofit places where they're redoing the work for their airplanes, doing it themselves.
[54:30] So they're doing every step of the retrofit on tanks and trucks and everything else.
[54:36] When I was there the last time in January, the helicopters, which the South Vietnamese had, they were only able to operate on 40-hour weekdays because they didn't have enough mechanics and enough maintenance people.
[54:50] to be able to operate with more than 40 hours a week.
[54:53] Last week, the orders went out to operate their helicopters on heating all of these things.
[55:00] This is just like doubling the helicopter force with this one.
[55:04] This required 3,500 more mechanics that had to be trained and ready to keep that helicopter force up to that degree of readiness.
[55:16] I went out and looked at that maintenance operation.
[55:19] I was briefed on it thoroughly, and I had good experts with me looking over that situation.
[55:28] And the progress that has been made there is very substantial.
[55:32] We talked about 3,500 mechanics that support people for aviation in that country.
[55:40] and hands up, we have been trained and ready to do it.
[55:43] Move them in.
[55:45] Double your title client.
[55:47] It's quite an amazing operation.
[55:50] This is impacting it all throughout the logistics and support programs.
[56:03] Thank you.
[56:06] Thank you.
[56:07] How was his pressure in terms of his confidence in the election?
[56:16] He said that the people out there, the same thing as you, the people out there
[56:30] Christ, they think we won a hell of a victory in the election.
[56:33] They think we have a mandate.
[56:35] Yep, the mandate.
[56:36] The mandate.
[56:37] 29, 30-year-old cabinet officers and all the rest, they just busted their butts.
[56:41] Now, that's good.
[56:42] I spent four hours with you.
[56:44] I spent four hours with you, and we was divided up, and then I spent time with you.
[56:53] and I was minister, finance minister, the defense minister, and these people are- Can I ask you one?
[56:59] I don't want to interrupt you, but- What about Keith?
[57:02] I'm just wondering what's going on.
[57:04] Did you see him?
[57:06] Well, no, I didn't see him, but I think, too, it's probably because everybody's involved in that, and everybody's, everybody's, and he's not going to have anything to do with it.
[57:19] If he can't do it, this is the time for him to do it.
[57:22] He was stopped, but he's not vice president.
[57:25] No, he's still not.
[57:27] He wasn't, but the minister said.
[57:30] I had to look at the vice president.
[57:31] I don't know.
[57:33] He's an old school teacher.
[57:36] He's here.
[57:36] He was a private minister.
[57:37] He was a private minister, yes.
[57:40] He was a private minister.
[57:42] So he's not alive, he's dead.
[57:46] Probably a decent man.
[57:48] He's dead old.
[57:49] And the prime minister is, isn't he?
[57:59] Yep.
[58:00] He's a good fellow.
[58:02] But he's, you know... What's big men doing?
[58:06] Big men is sort of in retirement.
[58:09] Good.
[58:11] Good.
[58:12] I didn't see him.
[58:14] I just thought he was there.
[58:17] I didn't know.
[58:20] I didn't know.
[58:23] I didn't know.
[58:24] I didn't know.
[58:27] I didn't know.
[58:31] I didn't know.
[58:33] I didn't know.
[58:39] So all these people are coming around.
[58:42] Joel is coming around.
[58:43] He questioned the information coming in.
[58:48] He said he was hungry.
[58:50] He said he just believed in changes in quality.
[58:56] He said, you know, he was down there for a couple of days.
[59:09] The first time I went to Vietnam, they were talking about a mass vacation program that stretched out over 30 to 90 days.
[59:29] Now you go in and you ask those who want to go out there
[59:39] They lay it out.
[59:39] They lay it out for the whole year, and then they show you what's going to happen for the next three years.
[59:48] The planning is really quite a change.
[59:53] We'd be impressed if they had a four-year program on the fabrication, which is rather unusual.
[1:00:01] Of course, operation is going well.
[1:00:03] Red Lion has taken over.
[1:00:06] I think it was all right because it was a military man and there were some problems with that as far as... What did we do about the, you know, about the surgery?
[1:00:19] Do you have a recommendation?
[1:00:22] Salon, do you think that people should go to Salon and that White House would replace it?
[1:00:32] Good.
[1:00:32] I'm going to ask you to approve it.
[1:00:34] Of course I do.
[1:00:36] Yeah.
[1:00:38] Yeah.
[1:00:40] Yeah.
[1:00:40] I like .
[1:00:41] You already?
[1:00:43] Yes.
[1:00:43] They need a .
[1:00:45] I don't know what the process is .
[1:00:50] Okay.
[1:00:51] Good.
[1:00:52] It's done.
[1:00:52] It's done.
[1:00:54] We put it down.
[1:01:03] Okay.
[1:01:03] .
[1:01:03] That's fine.
[1:01:04] I'm not sure.
[1:01:06] The South Vietnamese will have several operations on the British and therefore they're going to give requests
[1:01:32] I like this idea that they're operating on their own.
[1:01:34] We'll undertake anything.
[1:01:34] Now that I want to be sure.
[1:01:35] Now the other thing that I was concerned about was the point Collie raised.
[1:01:39] And what you were going about raising that.
[1:01:45] I see that you and I ordered from you.
[1:01:48] And he says, for God's sake, move everything over there to the crawl.
[1:01:51] There.
[1:01:52] Now are we really going all out and leaving the equipment so that those people got to run out of there again?
[1:01:56] Put them running out of their areas and leave that to the snows and people
[1:02:01] We really need more.
[1:02:04] A lot of the equipment that was raised by Mrs. Markle, as I forgot to tell you, they want some of that equipment to handle their own.
[1:02:16] We've got anything that we could let the Philippines have.
[1:02:20] Or should we?
[1:02:21] I don't know about politics.
[1:02:23] Well, we have some.
[1:02:24] I would like to have a look at it.
[1:02:26] Yeah, I would look at the political side, but I'm just wondering, is there, I can imagine, and it's that way, I'm thinking of Saharville, too.
[1:02:33] He's behind, he voted in 2007.
[1:02:37] Saharville?
[1:02:40] But what I'm speaking about, so now you, we all know there's a hell of a lot of surplus equipment.
[1:02:45] We all know that after wars, it's all wasted and rusted and all that sort of thing.
[1:02:49] And God damn it, I've really been out there with these people.
[1:02:53] I mean, I'd like to see the heart of them.
[1:02:56] Not to say, well, not to say, so hard do I know, but I've said that, and now that's taking quite a while to go off.
[1:03:01] We have got to help Sahara.
[1:03:02] Conaway will come back, I'm sure, with a response.
[1:03:04] If it isn't Conaway, it's true.
[1:03:06] Well, the problem right now is that we've got to remember that we have a lot of expenses to plan on.
[1:03:15] Could we have a study made on this matter so that I'll have an answer the next time?
[1:03:25] And I think we ought to have that thing kicked around.
[1:03:29] And listen, let's kick it around in a very close circle.
[1:03:32] Let's keep that thing.
[1:03:36] I know
[1:03:40] You know, he's just practical enough and he fits it up and sees the heart of it.
[1:03:43] And if we can't do it, I want to know if we can.
[1:03:46] Let's just beg, borrow, steal, lower the price, you know, everything.
[1:03:48] I was just talking to Jerry Ford.
[1:03:50] I wanted to talk to Craig.
[1:03:50] His implementation knocked out.
[1:03:52] So, you know, he'll have the same constraint.
[1:03:55] Right now, I mean, before that, he didn't have the solution for it.
[1:04:01] I don't know.
[1:04:02] I don't know.
[1:04:06] So I'll take care of that.
[1:04:16] That's just ridiculous when it becomes junk.
[1:04:21] Oh, absolutely.
[1:04:22] There's junk all over the world.
[1:04:24] Man, everybody puts all these big values on it.
[1:04:26] Man, well, just to be honest, we might as well use it.
[1:04:31] I think we can.
[1:04:35] You know, I think, for example, of the Billah, the 1950s group.
[1:04:41] The Billah program has been all through this, and we've had, you know, thousands of troops, you know, retreating, and so forth.
[1:04:54] We, first, our first priority, I mean, so much time, of course, is how to do it now.
[1:04:59] Jack, you never mind, you can't do it again.
[1:05:01] Yes, absolutely.
[1:05:01] Third, we had to rejoin.
[1:05:02] We're in a battle now.
[1:05:04] This is the decision.
[1:05:34] that just something that's been done in the Pentagon.
[1:05:40] Are we ever back this thing up?
[1:05:42] Well, we have a very good man.
[1:05:43] No, I know you have.
[1:05:43] I know, but I'm thinking of the, I'm thinking of the very, I think it's a priority.
[1:05:48] It's not exactly the right thing.
[1:05:50] Vietnam and Cambodia first.
[1:05:51] Korea for other reasons.
[1:05:55] Let me say, and then he just sticks in my mind, that frankly, the national needs, I don't know, they're sort of
[1:06:02] Do you think the Philippines should be considered?
[1:06:09] What do they want?
[1:06:11] Henry, one thing while I'm thinking of it, we've got another analysis
[1:06:32] I noticed they got back around the election again.
[1:06:37] I just don't know how awful it is.
[1:06:39] We haven't had anybody go there recently.
[1:06:47] We have a good ambassador, Byron, right?
[1:06:51] And my colleague gets back and it would be very useful for him to sit down and give us his feel of
[1:07:02] So I'm all for the energy.
[1:07:04] Well, listen, let me ask you a question.
[1:07:05] Let me say that I want you within the administration to push like hard on the side.
[1:07:09] I didn't push hard.
[1:07:10] You will.
[1:07:11] Well, and in public meetings, I mean, in our meetings in the NSC, this is why we have a constant battle with Marshall Bridge.
[1:07:19] Marshall Bridge is wrong about this.
[1:07:22] You can't have a thousand miles of island with no dam equipment to bend those dams on.
[1:07:29] Well, I, you know,
[1:07:30] There's no problem.
[1:07:31] It's a hard-opened car.
[1:07:35] It's a hard-opened car.
[1:07:37] It's a hard-opened car.
[1:07:39] It's a hard-opened car.
[1:07:45] It's a hard-opened car.
[1:07:49] It's a hard-opened car.
[1:07:50] It's a hard-opened car.
[1:07:52] It's a hard-opened car.
[1:07:53] It's a hard-opened car.
[1:07:59] And to have a talk with me, I mean, I should give him a little blessing anyway, and he'll appreciate it.
[1:08:04] Let's do that.
[1:08:04] Let's get there.
[1:08:05] You bring your brain.
[1:08:06] Let's win more, of course, you did.
[1:08:09] And we're all just going to find that and serve it a little.
[1:08:12] And tell him to give us a real report on that.
[1:08:16] That might be a short report.
[1:08:18] Indonesia is a big prize.
[1:08:19] It's a big prize.
[1:08:20] You know, we don't think of that energy very often because... Well, that's not true.
[1:08:25] I'll report to you.
[1:08:30] Go ahead, go ahead.
[1:08:32] We were worried about the economic side of it.
[1:08:35] The economic, well, even as they were in a state of shock when I got there, you see, it was just the Senate voting system, and we're in an economic system.
[1:08:50] When we sat with the last president, President, $1971, when he made the change in Korea, we were going up $1.5 billion a year.
[1:09:00] the very first year of the Eisenhower administration.
[1:09:04] They were ahead of the inflation rate of 130% of these people this year and held on to inflation to about 10%.
[1:09:09] Our couple, though, of course, as you know, is just really a very critical problem.
[1:09:13] We're fighting like hell, one, for the continuing resolution, and two, we're getting some amendments in the Senate.
[1:09:23] And of course, when that Senate takes from it, they do well.
[1:09:26] And when that Senate local legal system thing goes over to Congress, we'll get that goose up, so I'm better happy.
[1:09:33] Yes, we will.
[1:09:33] Yeah.
[1:09:33] We'll get the military goose up on Florida.
[1:09:39] Is there anything we can do to get you out of this thing?
[1:09:44] Well, I would say that maybe we talk to every person we can.
[1:09:48] Percy talked to him.
[1:09:50] Percy may do things like that.
[1:09:51] He supported us all the way around the way he was speaking.
[1:09:53] And the rest of it is our audience.
[1:09:55] to tell Percy that mental assistance is essential for our continued withdrawal program.
[1:10:00] Would you do that?
[1:10:02] I want you to tell him that you are the republicans of us.
[1:10:04] I look here for our future withdrawal program.
[1:10:07] We have got to have this military assistance, or otherwise the government is going to have to slow down the withdrawal.
[1:10:13] What do you call that?
[1:10:16] Don't you think so?
[1:10:17] No, I don't know.
[1:10:19] I don't know.
[1:10:20] I don't know.
[1:10:22] I do say it, but I want it said.
[1:10:24] You know, they will see what I said in Chicago, and I just want them to know that.
[1:10:26] God, I'd love to do this.
[1:10:27] I can't let that thing go down the drain.
[1:10:28] By that I mean, basically, we don't want the economic assistance to be wrecked.
[1:10:36] We've got to take a hard look at what's wrong with it.
[1:10:41] There's an absolute necessity for the withdrawal program to continue.
[1:10:48] If you get the technical part of it, it's hard to get to them because we've got plenty of military systems.
[1:10:57] We've got all we need there this year because we've got that bill set up so we've got $2.5 billion in assets.
[1:11:03] Tell me, does the economic system for Vietnam, well, it isn't the end of the humanitarian part of the bill.
[1:11:11] It's quite long.
[1:11:13] That's what I mean, that's what I'm talking about.
[1:11:15] Anything that's a security decision is what matters.
[1:11:19] Just so we can get along and not build cesspools for the Afghans.
[1:11:22] But we can't get along and let them get out of the way right now.
[1:11:24] This is COVID-19.
[1:11:25] So if we have to do something, we can make it through transparency.
[1:11:32] We don't want to go to anybody.
[1:11:34] That's a lot of a massive program.
[1:11:36] I just don't like to market that around this town.
[1:11:41] I think we've come a long way now and all of us would feel ready to look after all of the weak and true and in this war and through Cambodia and through Laos and through demonstration and through the rest and it's with me now that everything's on the line if it fails now because of just that last test
[1:12:11] What a great impression.
[1:12:12] That's why the handbook is so important, too.
[1:12:15] The handbook is doing well.
[1:12:16] We've got to talk about it.
[1:12:17] Yes, I have.
[1:12:18] I had part of Morris reporting this, and Morgan and I got together, and it was very, very important.
[1:12:26] Henry, when we have the NSC meeting, I think there ought to be a little bit of time now in the market, a half hour, and there's a capsule list for the meeting.
[1:12:35] What do you think?
[1:12:36] I think it's a good time to have it.
[1:12:40] I think we might as well have another meeting next week.
[1:13:05] I'd like to look, I'd like to look next week, for example, after we have a look at our, at our hallmark and take a little, I think, I think we can talk about it anyway.
[1:13:14] Connolly would be back.
[1:13:16] We'll let Connolly talk, Mel talk more, have an hour or two with the NSC, because I'd rather have Connolly talk to that group than basically the entire cabinet.
[1:13:22] He can talk to the cabinet about, you know, revaluing again, but I don't want to get into this stuff again.
[1:13:29] How does that sound to you?
[1:13:31] The second meeting next week was fair enough.
[1:13:35] Well, I did agree to write another copy of the English version, which was $60,000.
[1:13:44] And I know there is a program there.
[1:13:49] And I agreed to go along with it.
[1:13:52] We were offering a $1,100 budget for $100,000.
[1:13:55] But I had that number.
[1:13:59] So I told him, go ahead, I'm going to show you $30,000, $40,000.
[1:14:03] The next thing.
[1:14:30] They got them up in the MR1 or something like that, where those other tanks come across.
[1:14:34] Can they handle the Russian tanks?
[1:14:36] They can handle the Russian tanks up here.
[1:14:39] That terrain, those tanks aren't going to be, they're nice to have up there, but you're going to have to get rid of those tanks that are going to attack the aircraft.
[1:14:49] Because the tank-to-tank fighting in that terrain is going to be nice to have.
[1:15:00] It was an old tank commanded as a pet.
[1:15:01] It was a young lobster and he was great for tanks, but he does have some civilization in the National Valley and some of those areas up in there for massive operations.
[1:15:13] So they lost him in a cattle-bonding tank, and they operated the maps and stuff, and they didn't do very well.
[1:15:31] But they're there, they're operational, they're keeping them in good shape, it's important for them to have them.
[1:15:40] They were in good shape, they're all the records that we've been paying them, they're in great shape.
[1:15:51] They're able to, you know, we're reinforcing their flurry, we're pushing and turning over
[1:16:00] We want to transfer more of that, but in order for us to do that, we're going to have to stand down some of our engineers and give them at least 45 days to get their program in shape and turn it over to the south.
[1:16:27] That's all the program is involved.
[1:16:29] That's the goal.
[1:16:30] That logistics program, Henry, has to do with marketing.
[1:16:33] There's just a lot of questions about that program.
[1:16:36] It's done pretty well in the southeast.
[1:16:39] I was concerned about the inventory techniques and so forth, but that's really pretty well handled.
[1:16:45] And there's some good people who have done that over the course of the course.
[1:17:00] There's no question that they will try to break the calendar yet, and I'm proud to be in the October lecture.
[1:17:17] I think we should have their part of the meeting a little bit.
[1:17:31] the fact that they might try to raise more pain based on the national election in the southeast of Manhattan.
[1:17:43] And I'm confident they will.
[1:17:45] I assure you that we will have two chariots available and we have our air power on the tie line in good shape.
[1:17:51] We will be able to surge to a higher sortie level in the fall of this last year if we need it.
[1:17:59] I don't know if we're up to as soon as those of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the,
[1:18:16] I told him he had the capability, I didn't tell him he was going to fly, because he wanted to shut off by the end of the year.
[1:18:27] And he got out of his Air Force suit, he was coming along in good shape, and he was transferring the bloodshed over to
[1:18:45] they have doubled their stargates to their five and as far as any country is concerned they will be able to handle all of the countries in the United States in the last few months especially all of the countries in the United States they'll be able to do more than they can in the next 20, 30, 30 years there's one thing
[1:19:16] that too is not doing that, I think, to restrict you, I think, as you've understood, to the populace.
[1:19:20] This is the time of this great mandate that he had when he tried to kill the South Korean people, he wanted to kill the South Korean people.
[1:19:26] He tried to unite his political base, the British, and he can't dominate some of this right now.
[1:19:46] who ran this thing, not people that are in opposition, but there are people that aren't necessarily in the military that could make a contribution to creating a political reform.
[1:19:57] I also know those things in this report, and you have to have records.
[1:20:16] as far as the uh my last year i should be a part of the year and he should be
[1:20:44] that can be done.
[1:20:47] My report emphasizes the difficulty in keeping that and you're getting on that if you go on a short period because
[1:21:13] As we move towards a lower level in time of stand-down forces, particularly support forces, it has to be announced that those units have to be pulled well in the past.
[1:21:30] The program now is to be between $50,000 and $60,000 in the future.
[1:21:38] he had that all well worked out and there's no question in his mind that he could be there and it's necessary to know more than that and he can't I told him I didn't think it was necessary to forgive him it was he can't do it and he's that confident as a matter of fact knowing that I was coming over here today I had a cable coming today this year I asked him several questions because he was
[1:22:07] He purged very strongly that it would go six to seven months because he couldn't keep the lid on these horselands.
[1:22:19] They would leak out eventually.
[1:22:20] The difficulty with that knowledge of these, the difficulty with that on here is that it will not fit in what we may want to do on the other side.
[1:22:35] Everybody knows this anyway over here.
[1:22:37] They can never be sure what they need.
[1:22:44] And that's a very important point.
[1:22:45] But we have to let Aiden, I think, that we can go on a shorter basis.
[1:22:52] Because right now he's got programs in December for about $25,000.
[1:22:57] He's got programs in January for about $20,000.
[1:23:01] And if you go out of the mouth, it's really all programmed to go there in a two-month period.
[1:23:08] What I hate to get tracked on is that you have to be accelerated in the next announcement.
[1:23:17] Because everybody looks at these faces and what's going on, what's the grade?
[1:23:23] Oh, we don't announce anything.
[1:23:26] We never can.
[1:23:26] I hate to get tracked in this business of
[1:23:30] Because if you get down to 50 or 60,000 with the plan, the structure that we have, there will be fewer people coming out in June than there will be in the early part of the year.
[1:23:50] Now, I know that there's certain advantages to having an announcement that will take you to 72.
[1:23:57] And in my proposal, I suggested we make an announcement until the 1st of July.
[1:24:02] And then, without saying anything about it, we make another announcement.
[1:24:07] In April, I suggested that we continue with the election period.
[1:24:14] So we don't have to have any announcements in September or
[1:24:25] The problem that I do have is that this is kind of like, you don't know how hard you've tried to keep the, uh, lid on where we're going to be.
[1:24:35] Well, we, uh, the problem that we have is that, uh, we, uh, be able to go on with that at a, at a time of, uh, I mean, at a certain time.
[1:24:50] The problem is, uh,
[1:24:56] Now, here's what they were supposed to say.
[1:24:59] This is his operation file that he refers to in the first paragraph.
[1:25:06] He can do this.
[1:25:07] He makes no laws that he can do it.
[1:25:10] But he does not want to do another mission where he has to, you know, promise to keep the security.
[1:25:19] I'm not sure we want to decide on whether or not we're going to be able to do that.
[1:25:27] due to other factors that are not related to this.
[1:25:32] If he goes three months, he has no problem seeing that he'll be below $124,000 on the 29th of February.
[1:25:43] He'll be below $124,000 on the 29th day of February.
[1:25:50] That amount is $60,000 three months.
[1:25:57] His only problem is that- What's he talking about then?
[1:26:00] What's he talking about increasing the rate from about $40,000 to $30,000 or $20,000?
[1:26:11] He's going to $20,000.
[1:26:13] He's going to $20,000?
[1:26:14] He has $20,000 in his plan during this particular time.
[1:26:17] But his average doesn't work out to $20,000 if you go through to July 1.
[1:26:24] Right.
[1:26:27] And the problem is that people will reject this and they'll know that we'll be down to 50,000, between 50,000 and 60,000 by June.
[1:26:34] I'm sure.
[1:26:35] They're projecting that.
[1:26:37] I mean, they're projecting, you know, even if they support you, you'd be down to, if you walked to wherever you went out, so.
[1:26:53] The case, and my report, I've written this,
[1:26:59] Well, let me say that the problem we have now, if you give six months or seven months, then we really will cut off the tuition.
[1:27:26] Well, I don't think anything's going to happen.
[1:27:29] It may not.
[1:27:30] It may not.
[1:27:30] It may not.
[1:27:32] But I think we have to...
[1:27:32] It's as hard as it may be.
[1:27:33] And it may go six months.
[1:27:34] It may be.
[1:27:35] I can see the argument for it.
[1:27:36] But that's the thing with that big decision we have to make.
[1:27:41] If we decide we're going to go down to $50,000, we're going to go down shopping carts.
[1:27:49] If we go to Nelson now, I mean, because of the...
[1:27:55] What's your opinion on that?
[1:28:00] It makes no difference to two.
[1:28:06] As you'll see from Bunker's wire, I never had a conversation.
[1:28:14] He talked to Al, and Al was in there, and he called a conversation in.
[1:28:25] It made no difference to him.
[1:28:28] As a matter of fact, he figured that we'll be out of it by election time.
[1:28:32] He said, you'll be down to zero by election time.
[1:28:35] And I said, except for the airport.
[1:28:37] I said, well, Mr. President, I don't think we will be at zero by election time.
[1:28:43] And here I am telling him that no, we won't be at zero by election time.
[1:28:48] He said, well, we're going to be able to handle it militarily.
[1:28:52] The problem you have now is that you don't have that much research.
[1:28:57] What you've got isn't the election time or not, the fact that you're out of there.
[1:29:08] The fact that you're still doing air search isn't still going on.
[1:29:18] Right.
[1:29:18] How do you look at that?
[1:29:19] It's still going on, but the election time isn't present.
[1:29:21] The air sorties will be very low because the weather is bad here in Yad Vashem, but it's still, and there won't be, unfortunately, a very wet, rainy season.
[1:29:29] And, um...
[1:29:30] I think that the air sorties are going to be going to have a lot of fun.
[1:29:40] It will.
[1:29:41] Even if we still have a poor sale.
[1:29:43] Of course, it would be good to move into the negotiators from Yad Vashem.
[1:29:48] Well, the only point, regardless of how you come down, whether you go up to the $124,000 that he says that he had on him, this is no effort for him.
[1:29:55] He could go more than that.
[1:29:59] Right now, we've got troops that we don't have a hell of a lot of money to do it with.
[1:30:06] I don't know.
[1:30:07] We'll be sure.
[1:30:08] I'll see if he needs to be checked.
[1:30:10] Now, that is gross.
[1:30:11] Well, with that drug problem...
[1:30:14] And I know that's not what that is.
[1:30:16] When people don't have enough to do, that's when they go off.
[1:30:18] Well, we're trying to get programs formed to go to school.
[1:30:22] We're trying to work out things to keep them busy.
[1:30:26] But that's going to be a big effort to keep these people busy.
[1:30:30] And I'd also like to know if your allies are going to put more football on there.
[1:30:36] Our forces will be more games a week now.
[1:30:40] Great.
[1:30:40] What do you think, what is this, because we're coming pretty close to the time.
[1:30:46] Do you think if you'd like to, on a shorter announcement, that maybe you could announce it around 20 minutes?
[1:31:03] 20 is no problem.
[1:31:05] And he says, as long as he
[1:31:09] For planning purposes, and plans for seven months, I've got to keep planning ahead for seven months.
[1:31:17] He doesn't care about the announcement, but he's got to be able to keep his plans going for at least seven months ahead.
[1:31:28] Because it's a small area.
[1:31:29] We can't let that happen.
[1:31:30] He may be able to plan, but he can't be assured of it.
[1:31:32] We have got to.
[1:31:33] I can't believe you're in it, because if we don't,
[1:31:37] There is, frankly, still an open negotiation.
[1:31:45] We've got to see.
[1:31:50] He could go down to Watt, so it's the maximum.
[1:31:53] We can go farther than 100,000 to 4,000.
[1:31:57] I don't think, if you're going to dream like that, we're going to go anywhere.
[1:32:01] Right.
[1:32:04] I just don't believe you should set up a rate that's higher than that at this time.
[1:32:09] If you're only going to go three months, I would not set up a rate higher than $124,000.
[1:32:14] $124,000?
[1:32:16] $15,000.
[1:32:19] Oh.
[1:32:19] Which is $20,000.
[1:32:25] $20,000, but I hope we keep away from the average of $20,000.
[1:32:33] Because I hate you asking me to steal anything from you.
[1:32:39] Right.
[1:32:39] So you can stay there for $141,000.
[1:32:40] That's your decision.
[1:32:41] I don't see a major problem in it, dude.
[1:32:42] Nathan's glass is $60,000.
[1:32:43] He doesn't see it.
[1:32:48] He's made it big.
[1:32:49] This is a pretty high thing, dude.
[1:32:53] Yeah.
[1:32:53] I mean, it's worth $60,000.
[1:32:56] Right.
[1:32:56] He's not really doing it.
[1:33:00] We've got a bulletin for $60,000.
[1:33:01] I think it's better.
[1:33:03] This is unusual for the military commanders to be talking this way.
[1:33:12] This is the first time we had this withdrawal.
[1:33:18] We didn't have the Joint Chiefs with us.
[1:33:22] We didn't have any of them.
[1:33:27] Well, then we've got...
[1:33:32] Oh, I see the ballpark.
[1:33:34] And, uh... Now, I don't know what the situation is, but I understand there's some plan to have Rodney out.
[1:33:45] And the person that I introduced you to, I don't know, or I'm yet to determine how to do it.
[1:33:51] It's going to be so low-key at this point.
[1:33:59] Well, it would just be with me that, uh...
[1:34:03] If you go to the $30,000 route, this is just a fraction.
[1:34:09] I mean, $30,000 is $3,000.
[1:34:11] I mean, $1,000 is $40,000.
[1:34:18] That's $25,000.
[1:34:18] The December thing has got all these rooty outs.
[1:34:24] We have a rooty out program in the Army right now.
[1:34:27] These rooty outs for Christmas.
[1:34:30] all come into this early part.
[1:34:33] He's actually got 25 in January and 20 in January.
[1:34:36] 25 in December and 20 in January.
[1:34:38] I thought that it would be a world peace order that I would recommend to you, Mr. President, that you make an announcement and that this may be short-stated, but I have
[1:35:00] No, we won't make that case.
[1:35:02] But I just feel that this is so important to this administration, this particular program, that it must be used.
[1:35:09] Yeah.
[1:35:09] Yeah.
[1:35:10] You've got to do it once.
[1:35:15] You've only got to do it now and then.
[1:35:17] And so you're not...
[1:35:20] I don't think you ought to do it in the State of the Union.
[1:35:25] You know, I would take everything we make...
[1:35:30] If you go to three months now, this is the three months.
[1:35:39] That's the three months.
[1:35:48] And I've got the other laid out in there with the idea of going to January.
[1:35:55] And I want to make a statement overtaking it in April.
[1:36:03] The July one, yeah, I see that.
[1:36:05] Well, let me just get some thought to see what the hell the score is on whether it's worth the July one.
[1:36:08] I think we're going to have to do a more limited one at this point.
[1:36:19] But I'll know in a couple of days.
[1:36:22] Today is Wednesday, so it's Wednesday.
[1:36:29] I guess I already know what I'm going to have for the day.
[1:36:32] I should know that Friday, but I don't know.
[1:36:34] There's something out there that might be interesting.
[1:36:36] I don't know.
[1:36:37] I don't know.
[1:36:38] I don't know.
[1:36:38] I don't know.
[1:36:39] I don't know.
[1:36:40] I don't know.
[1:36:41] I don't know.
[1:37:00] Well, I uh,
[1:37:30] Well, let's see.
[1:37:31] I worked on that before.
[1:37:31] I think I had it in there.
[1:37:33] But you've got to have this announcement thing.
[1:37:35] Let's see.
[1:37:35] If you go six months, you can go three.
[1:37:44] We all have no problem with it going either way.
[1:37:48] We can do it either way.
[1:37:49] It's the easiest, and we have it in the left, and it doesn't have any problems.
[1:37:56] We don't have any problems with credibility or anything else as to...
[1:38:03] I just don't want this to be doubted.
[1:38:13] We've held it pretty well.
[1:38:16] There's going to be some speculation.
[1:38:21] We can't stop the speculation.
[1:38:23] Oh, sure.
[1:38:24] There's going to be more.
[1:38:26] Separate.
[1:38:28] Separate.
[1:38:28] Well, Henry, I sent you over what I said.
[1:38:30] Separate the
[1:38:32] We've got to make what you're saying.
[1:38:34] God, I hardly like that kind of thing, but at the same time, we're going to try to give them the interest that we should be doing better.
[1:38:44] They think so.
[1:38:47] Nothing will satisfy them.
[1:38:52] Except for the loss of the country.
[1:38:54] The economy.
[1:38:54] Well, let me say it.
[1:38:55] We've got to win.
[1:38:56] There's no question we're going to do it.
[1:38:58] These people are doing well.
[1:38:59] The organization is working.
[1:39:01] I got it.
[1:39:03] The enemy is weak, and that's the important thing.
[1:39:06] It was well with the bank of the Laws and the bank of the Cambodian Bank, John.
[1:39:10] There's one other argument that I'm sure many of you should remember, and that is that a lot of the tip-tops and dispensers were made about the kind of way they had to move like they were packing.
[1:39:23] Oh, yeah.
[1:39:34] I've kept Dave on, I'm sure he just has to go.
[1:39:36] And I want to make these changes, and they're all changes within our team.
[1:39:42] Now, the one that may cause you the most difficulty is one that I have a commitment on.
[1:39:45] If you want to overrule it, that's certainly what you should do.
[1:39:51] And that's for this car.
[1:39:55] For this car, I brought him here from Lawrence University.
[1:39:59] Yeah.
[1:40:01] And I went to Curtis and to his wife, and we had a call over here at the White House on draft Selective Services.
[1:40:07] And I promised Curtis that if he takes that job for a year, he won't come over and talk to me.
[1:40:14] What do you want to push him?
[1:40:15] I want to make him Undersecretary of the Air Force.
[1:40:19] Why would he want to do that?
[1:40:20] Well, that's what he wants.
[1:40:22] He wants to go back to the Air Force.
[1:40:24] He was an assistant secretary there, actually.
[1:40:28] And, uh...
[1:40:30] I can't believe I don't need to collect any of these on here.
[1:40:33] These are like, here are the changes that I wanted to make.
[1:40:35] In Packard's place, I want to move over.
[1:40:41] You can have that one.
[1:40:45] He's a very, very good administrator.
[1:40:48] He's a good administrator.
[1:40:49] Well, he's been good.
[1:40:50] He's a tough administrator.
[1:40:53] He's responsible for our Apollo program.
[1:40:56] He's very responsible.
[1:40:58] He's very good.
[1:40:58] That's one that worries me.
[1:41:05] I'll have to look at that very hard.
[1:41:08] I have no confidence in him.
[1:41:10] He's basically not for us.
[1:41:15] He's a good McNamara type technician.
[1:41:19] And I don't think we'll put him on the job.
[1:41:22] I've got to go over and see Rogers, so that one I will not buy.
[1:41:27] What about those others, Mr. President?
[1:41:29] The others I'll take a look at, but I won't buy Seaman's.
[1:41:34] Well, it's awfully hard to find one, Mr. President.
[1:41:36] I took that list.
[1:41:38] The other car doesn't bother me at all.
[1:41:41] He's a very confident guy.
[1:41:44] Basically, he'll work with us.