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Conversation 003-191

TapeTape 3StartSaturday, May 29, 1971 at 10:00 AMEndSaturday, May 29, 1971 at 10:06 AMTape start time04:34:50Tape end time04:40:34ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Rockefeller, Nelson A.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On May 29, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Nelson A. Rockefeller talked on the telephone from 10:00 am to 10:06 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 003-191 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 3-191

Date: May 29, 1971
Time: 10:00 am - 10:06 am
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Nelson A. Rockefeller.

[See Conversation No. 507-4B]

     Rent issue in New York, NY
          -New York Times
          -John V. Lindsay's position, Rockefeller's position, President's position
          -Henry A. Kissinger
          -Compared with Paris
          -Lindsay's position
                -John Loeb
                -Lindsay
                -Rockefeller's plan
          -New York state budget
          -Lindsay's authority over construction

     New York, NY fiscal situation
         -Home rule
              -New York Times story
              -Lindsay's position
                                             111

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



               -Herbert Brownell
               -Frederick R. Kappel
                    -Retired president of telephone company
                    -Work on Ash Commission
                          -Roy L. Ash
                    -Possible call from Rockefeller
          -Causes
               -Lindsay's efforts                              Conv. No. 3-191 (cont.)

     Lindsay
          -Appearance on “Dick Cavett Show”
          -Budget request
              -Cuts
                    -Services
                    -Police, firemen

     New York, NY police
         -Killings
         -Possible federal funds
               -John D. Ehrlichman
               -George P. Shultz
               -Ehrlichman's call to Rockefeller
               -Amount, significance
         -Killings
               -President's response
               -Ethnic origins
         -Possible federal funds
               -Ehrlichman
                     -Forthcoming call to Rockefeller
                     -Meeting with President
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah.
I have Governor Rockefeller on the line, sir.
Hello?
Mr. President.
I just called you to tell you that I'm, as one who has to read the New York Times every morning to know what's going on, that I'm on your side in that rent fight with your mayor.
And the reason is that I just, sitting here, just Henry just in, and we were going over some things, and I told him that, and I said,
I knew what happened to France, to Paris.
As you know, the reason that you've got no housing in Paris is you had ceilings too long.
Now, here in New York, I mean, you've got to bite that bullet.
And this is a total demagoguery to go the other way, in my opinion.
Well, you're the nicest person.
Isn't that it?
What's the matter with this fellow?
Why don't you get John Loeb and some of the business guys to talk to him?
Well, talking to him doesn't do any good.
Yeah.
an unusual person yeah that way yeah or really the only thing one can do is to just go right after him right and that may bring him around this has been a fantastic session we really have done all the tough things yeah you know that had to be done cutting the budget people were going to cut his budget
and we've also taken away his power to put controls on new construction.
Right.
So that'll help on the... Yeah.
But it's an interesting period, and we're trying to turn things around in the state.
Good, good.
Well... On a positive basis.
Things are coming around, you think?
Well, I do.
But you know, Nelson, you've got to turn them around in the city.
Well, that's right, and we're moving on.
If you're reading that story in the Times, he's criticizing...
the fact that we don't respect home rule and well i saw that i didn't know the implications of that well i think what we're going to have to do before we get through is appoint some kind of a seabree committee to really investigate the whole operation of the city you know if you had a fellow of really what you need is sort of a fellow of if he if he weren't already in the other camp a guy like uh
like Brownell or somebody to go at that, but he can't do it because he's a younger guy.
Yeah, well, what's the name of the president of the telephone company who just retired?
Campbell.
Yeah, Campbell.
He'd be great.
Absolutely great.
Let me say that if you were to put him in, first you could...
you could count on him to come up with the right answers.
But second, you could also count on him to talk to you before he gave the answers to ask you whether you could will him politically.
He's the only man to do it.
As a matter of fact, I couldn't come in more strongly giving Fred a call and saying, look here, and the guy that worked with us later on,
through this whole thing.
All these fellows on that commission, Roy Ashmer, were just terrific.
But Kappel is the man.
He's really the senior statesman in reorganization in the whole country.
No question.
If I could get him.
Yeah.
and really move in with a commission of the power of subpoena and so forth.
Let me tell you, if you talk to him, only if you feel it's worthwhile, you can say we were chatting and I urged it.
Wonderful.
Because he ought to do it.
He ought to do it, Nelson.
I think that's what's needed.
You know, I feel as you do.
I mean, hell, I want Lindsay to succeed.
Good God, we don't want New York City to go down the tube.
But the way it's going to go, unless they face up to some of these things, you know, all of these problems are the result of his own, you know, also pandering to certain groups, too.
That's right, too.
You know, he's demagoguing it.
Well, he's always done it.
He does it well.
He sure does.
He does it on Dick Cavett and all the other shows.
It's very effective.
That's right.
There's one thing I worry a little about.
We're going to have to cut his request in half for new money.
He wants $880 million.
We're going to give him probably around $400 million or less.
And he's going to start right out cutting.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the police, the firemen, all that.
Killings, right.
If we could.
For that purpose.
from Washington.
Clearly apart from some other things.
I see what you mean.
I'll tell you what I'll do.
I'm going to see John Erdigman in a few minutes.
I'll raise it with him.
I don't know what the problem is.
George Schultz is up to his farm this weekend, but I'll get right on it and I'll have John call you back.
This would be marvelous.
Fine.
Yeah.
Even though we couldn't, of course, we can't give a huge amount.
But, you know, if we could give you a hell of a gesture, it would be very effective.
Right.
Right.
and that you suggested it and so forth and so on and so on.
I suppose the problem is scattering it around, how much is left and all that sort of thing, but we might find a way to do it directly.
Let me see, let me see.
I felt so strongly, as I'm sure you did, when those two policemen were murdered, particularly when you had a black and a white, you know, a black and an Italian, actually.
That really stirred up people.
That's the problem.
Yeah, and they're good people.
Those police are good people in your city.
You know, there's no police brutality.
Well, very little police brutality in New York City.
You know that.
There isn't enough.
That's right.
Well, anyway, I'll have John call you.
Good to talk to you.
Well, listen, I'll follow this up with John.
Fine.
I'll talk to him first.
Fine.
Great.
Thank you.
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