On November 3, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:01 pm and 4:25 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 301-025 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Okay, the market's taking a good bounce today, Mr. President.
Uh-huh.
Up 11 points, if you'll try.
On low money, going up all day, it's going to be up a bargain.
No, I think the reaction, like they said yesterday, bargain.
Basically, today, I think the reaction to the dividend announcement, very, very well received.
It's really the first time he's spoken out.
He did it pretty well, and it's
The business community is saying, sure, that's an indication of what the other guy wants.
They're saying, thank God we've got our 4% on it.
We've got to make it two.
And we've got four.
It's just perfect because it's four.
It's a little above the prevailing.
Right.
Well, it's a little above the two to three.
Right.
And yet it's below the five to six that everybody's on labor.
Now, labor can live with six.
And they find it.
Fitz told me yesterday that they're
They're figuring the five to six range.
As a general guideline for next year.
I would think that would be so.
They'll squeal about the retroactive ones and the rest, but I just don't see how the hell we can knock those over.
Except that I think we might, if they'll just make some sort of compromise, I don't know.
I don't say you can break a contract.
I've talked to Schultz about it.
Schultz is very good in that sort of thing.
Yes, he is.
Well, the market... We haven't had that in three weeks.
No, but it shows you how sensitive those fellows are right now to any signal at all.
They go down or they go up.
Very valid with the slightest indication.
I think it does tell you one other thing.
It does say that once...
we get over this couple of weeks.
And we get the guidelines, and people know what they are.
And they know what to plan.
And they know what to plan.
It will take over.
I just, I'm absolutely convinced.
Because there's a lot of, there's a lot, well, I think there's a lot of good to get on the news.
Well, since the machine tool, the company, for example, tool, they had a full backlog of people waiting to sign contracts.
waiting for the investment tax credit.
Now, you would think they would know that when it passed the house as big as it did, when it's going through the sign, and when it's retroactive... And it passed the house.
Yeah, well, yes, it passed the house.
And when it's retroactive, well, this would mean that they could safely sign, but they're not.
They're just waiting.
And I think even the car sales didn't last long.
I think it's just waiting for somebody to like the passion.
One thing you didn't have in a cracking project is big car sales.
They ought to be ready the moment that thing passes.
or a big sales spurt on television that week.
But your next office, that day, I mean, they ought to put it in their advertising.
The excise tax is approved.
Well, you know, the other thing you can do is report the excise tax to everybody who bought a car on August 15th.
Will it?
Yes, sir.
And that's a hell of a lot of money to shoot at in the economy.
That's all being held against everybody else in the economy.
Except for America.
Except for America.
Not nothing.
But that'll be a big shot for him, not always.
Sittlinger doesn't put out his latest, his latest week for two weeks in a row.
It's overtime.
It's overtime.
The latest, for the second week in a row, he shows the two biggest weekly increases he's had in years.
And the biggest shout-out to 127, which is where it was,
almost a year ago when he was, when he had us coming out of the recession.
And he said- A year ago?
I would say- In January, November?
January.
And according to him, the press conference, which was put up this morning, he said, business should not- The news summary didn't play out very well, I would think.
They may not have seen the point.
They missed his point.
What he said is business should not happen because the recovery is coming.
The full recovery won't be built for six months because my index always precedes the recovery.
I'm not sure you're right this time.
Well, I just think that there's a hell of a lot of recovery that's bound to come over Christmas somewhere.
That's still Harrison's view.
You were talking about Harrison's bull and so forth.
Or is he backing off of that now?
He's a little worried.
Worried why?
Because of stock market.
I think so.
You know, he's a partner in Donaldson.
That's got to affect him very bad.
Although he's cynical as hell.
He said these guys here are just a bunch of pain.
You know, he's worried about two things.
He said that the uncertainty over these two
He may be pulling down the Republicans.
And he now puts Vietnam as regaining momentum as an issue.
He's very worried about that.
Genuinely, he called me and said, I want to talk to you on two levels.
I first want to talk to you as a pollster about to put out a poll.
And I want to read it to you, and if you want to change it, OK. Then he said, now I want to talk to you as an advisor who told me to get CU reelected.
He said, I will tell you.
The depth of feeling is creeping back in.
I wonder what's doing that.
I hardly, I'm not sure that I can sense that's the same.
That's true, but he may, it may be what he's finding, but I don't feel it quite the same.
I don't see it.
My God, I don't see it.
Look, we go around the country, no other congressmen are getting that question.
They're not getting all that sort of thing.
It may be that that reflects the, you know, the...
that may be rubbing off on Vietnam.
More isolationism in the country.
Isolationism basically is the problem on Vietnam, not Vietnam.
Good God, the casualties are down and all that sort of thing.
But he's worried about it.
Well, he's worried about it from, we're going to get the party from Vietnam.
Forget it.
We're going to say something in Iraq.
We're going to have something more in January.
His only point to us, he said, I'm just going into his bloodstream.
He said, you know, I'm caught.
He said, I'm completely subscribed to your heart policy.
He said, my one word is, the president is right.
Apparently not.
I want to see him stay up there.
I don't want to see another day.
I have to work your way back up because that's always better than staying up.
And he said, I just, I acknowledge you.
He's a little more sensitive.
I said, well, I don't think any of this.
He said, really what?
Well, we'll give them a little positive shot, but for your information, frankly, we're not going to make a total announcement on that.
And it's a pretty good idea in a way.
But we'll be positive about it.
We have to look at other negotiations to improve better.
And now we've got the final announcement.
The war is over.
January.
In other words, we've got the war.
Because we can't do it now anyway.
There's no way we can.
We've got to adjust to that now.
We can't say it now, because the moment we say that, then those guys are going to be zilch.
And we're not quite to that point yet.
We can't ever stop the ravage now.
There are not a ton of things that we really want to do, but we're going to have to put it out there now.
We've had a series of blockbusters.
I think another blockbuster right now will be this kind of thing, because we've had so many.
I agree.
And I don't think it's any problem of mine.
I don't want to talk for charity.
I mean, the point is, it'll be good.
But it'll be a sound story.
I'll be quite up to their expectations.
But anybody who can add will know.
But we're knocking down the story that you were in.
You're going to want to listen to it a little bit.
And that's been floating around in the sky.
Sure.
Where do you think ?
Let's suppose next August there's still 400 Americans imprisoned in Vietnam.
If you think whoever was on the shore, as it was for us, that would kill us.
That's why we've got to play the negotiating string out now.
That's why we've got to let the enemy think that we might bomb the hell out of them.
Or, as well, you see, that's what we're doing here.
We're planning on burying her.
This isn't a toilet.
We can't, shouldn't make a note of it.
Because it's so, so complicated, so highly sensitive.
So we are keeping our option open for two months.
Because we've got pressures going on in every direction.
And it will either break or it won't.
If it doesn't, then we'll have to go ahead and announce it.
And maybe do a little bombing in an army.
But we'll do it in the name of getting prisoners back and people to support that.
Harris said that.
He said that is the one that wins.
He said as far as a communist takeover,
People don't give a damn.
That's right.
Well, they're going to have a problem on that.
They're not going to take it over.
Yeah.
They've resolved themselves.
They've figured it.
Yeah.
But on the prisoners, they're all there.
They're going to do what's there.
They just, that's the one issue where people say, when people go to the O.I.
and that's 400 Americans being held hostage, and that's, that should compare the passions of the American people are just like that.
Oh, and how are you going to do it?
That's because I'll do it.
And I'll do it.
I mean, you know what I mean?
What do they want to do about it?
Huh?
They never answer that question.
They say, get out.
Well, we've done that.
You wouldn't do it if you made your final announcement.
And so then, and so we said, now we've offered them everything.
We're getting out.
But they did it.
They started it.
But we were not going to do it.
They refused to talk.
And therefore, we're not going to let these men stand here forgotten.
And on the order of the military targets in North Vietnam, we struck until those prisoners are released.
That was the only answer we took with support.
I think it would give us a hell of a lift at that point.
As a matter of fact, it would, you know, we could recharge some of the, that silent majority of our people.
It's kind of just, it has that feel of despair.
I think it would.
Isn't it good?
It would be a hell of an inspiration.
But Harris didn't feel it then, you know, until the fact about the U.N. thing.
Well, he knows.
Because they realized what we had to do then.
Because you know how dangerous we had, the problem we had with our right wing.
Yes, and he thought you handled that pretty well.
He sees what we do.
He said, I think the President handled that issue beautifully.
He said the Liberals were screaming about taking on the U.S.
He said, help me, just what you did was hold your coalition together and pull on a coup.
And it's had no public effect.
Now, tell me about the wage thing.
Any hope?
Yes, sir.
Knock on wood, it's being resolved right at this moment.
And he had written a formal decree, and Biagini had had private meetings.
Biagini's quite a fellow.
No, he's good.
I'm very impressed with him.
He's a business man.
He's got balls.
and some political stuff.
And then everything that Harris, I wish you hope you told him that I had the same content.
I said, is that what he said?
He used phrases like we used.
He said they're a bunch of weak-kneed, scared, low-livered.
He said, I just am so disenchanted.
with the big business community and the Wall Street community, he said, I'm second about it.
He said, my God, people have so much more confidence in this country than the track of the business community.
He said, God damn, they're just there.
Well, he had, and I told him that we had similar discussions.
It's the Wall Street business community.
It's not that little Main Street guy.
The Chamber of Commerce is pretty good.
He's so, he's so, it's the super-sophisticated,
who screamed what it is for the government to do something.
It's their education.
You realize that business today is run by a bunch of managers who come out of the best schools, schools of business and so forth, and basically, even though they're sort of conservative economically, have to be, you know, really, basically, they have been, all the guts and the character have been washed out of them.
Now that's what it is.
It's a combination.
It's like the great law firm.
You've hardly ever found a liberal law firm in the old days.
And now they're full of them.
Full of them.
And the reason is that all their young guys are that way.
Their young guys, you can't find them.
They were trying to hide a lot of education.
Yeah.
And they're awful.
Hell of a job.
And I was trying to get something to do with both right and local hate.
But it's also that, but it's also that some of the businesses, I just think the blood is running too thin.
I think these guys have had... You mean they've...
They've just had it too easy.
They tried it for six years, everything went up and up and up.
Now they've quit selling, they've quit competing.
They haven't got the... My little speech about competition is what they all need to hear.
I give it all the time.
It's a good one, and they should hear it.
They should.
Somehow that idea is going to get through to them.
It isn't just riding along with the tide.
You sometimes have to get in there and swim like hell.
And the attitude on the street today is exactly the reflection of that.
The slightest little goose, and they go, and the slightest little downbeat, and they go.
But the labor situation, Mr. President, the, currently, the Ajayi Day meeting, started by a fifth step, worked a formative.
We won't know until the end of the day what it is, but in the crime he has, so far, at least, been successful with me.
He'll either be bought this afternoon, or maybe walk out, or agreed to tomorrow.
I don't think he will.
He must walk out.
I don't think he will.
I do not think he will.
Much done for him yesterday.
that he don't do without me.
You let Lovestone know now that I will go to that convention.
I really will.
He could keep pledging, but I ain't going to do that pledge.
I made that pledge.
I want you very much to come.
Lovestone wants you to help bring some of the things you might say to get a good response.
Good, you do that with him.
Well, I'm going to hit the one thing that they can do work.
And I'm also going to hit the great support of the Foreign Office.
I went back.
And then a very, very little on... Not here, boys.
I know you've never supported me.
But I don't care, and I'm grateful for the fact that you stood up for America.
That's more important.
That's a lot.
You may not support my party, you may not support me, but you do support America.
That's a lot.
I went back, Mr. President, because I got a memorandum about it after the meeting you had with Conley, Rolf, and Schultz, and myself on labor strategy.
When you gave Conley that lecture, the working man being there,
The real strength of the country, I caught a lot of your phrases that day.
That's the line that we'll get into soon.
It's not only true, but it's something that's very good.
It turns them on.
It is true, and they love to hear it.
Most of them did not see the meaning of what happened this week.
You must walk on it.
No, but if we get well, we'll get over this.
Four months from now, you can walk on it.
Oh, yes.
The economy moves then.
He walks off.
Getting rid of it is important, too.
Yes, we've got to get rid of it.
You need an army general for this one who is a master at retreating without appearing to retreat.
Retreating while appearing to advance, which is untangling at the right time is going to be critical.
But, Meany, I think if we get over this week, I'm not worried about it.
You see, there's no other decision the President, George, agreed to this.
No, Mr. Schillinger.
Yes, sir.
Actually, the unions are, the difficulty with this is that Meany is rough on the virus.
I know he is.
You can't argue the sanctity of a contract with a bargain.
The conditions under which government can abrogate those contracts has to be limited.
Incidentally, on another subject, I was totally delighted to hear a much chillier one that was brought out in this police cellar.
We got him.
I talked to him on the phone.
Who did it?
I said, my congratulations, and I approached him from on the back, and I said, you know, I feel about you.
And I told Rose to come over and answer it.
She called and she said, he just got off the phone from Mr. Rizzo.
And I called him.
He said, Frank, you know, he stuttered.
Rizzo called.
He said he was overjoyed.
He said he can't come.
He wouldn't guess he would call him.
Oh, yes, I would, Frank.
Well, the president called and said, listen.
Imagine a child in Compton, the mayor of the second-biggest city in America.
Jesus Christ, you know, we can get him.
We've got a nurse in.
Now, this is where our strategy comes from.
Not the blacks.
No.
Not the poor.
Basically, we help the blacks.
We help the poor because it's right and politically for them.
And not the young.
We help them because it's right.
But, boy, it's those tendons.
Really.
It is the working steps.
the Poles, the Italians, and it's not the Jews.
You realize Philadelphia's a clear case.
Here's the Republican, playing the Jews, playing the blacks, and playing the, he did very well as a white socialite, yeah, the white socialite in the league, he did very well as a Republican.
But on the other hand, this Democrat, beating, and being opposed by all those people.
Now, God damn it, this is something.
Well, you knew that the,
You know, the 30,000 Republicans, registered Republicans in Philadelphia who switched their registration to Democrat who goes to reserve in France.
So he had one hell of a lot of Republicans going to see him as well.
You know, he's, that is the constituency, Mr. President, that is going to be swung very dramatically out of Berkeley for the same wedding.
Of course, he had it.
When you say Perkins, okay, Perkins is great.
I know there's not a majority in Cleveland or that kind of Philadelphia.
You don't lose Philadelphia by $330,000 votes next time.
You don't lose Cleveland by an item of $70,000.
You may be cutting to $75,000.
That's the difference.
That's the state.
In Philadelphia, in Pennsylvania, you've got two very interesting things happening.
You've got Rizzo in Philadelphia.
Even if he doesn't go with you, it might be better as a matter of fact that
If he kind of sets it up.
That's all we ask.
I just wanted to have an honest account.
Right, because it doesn't turn other people around.
But if he just doesn't try to deliver that machine, it goes against you.
And in Pittsburgh, something else is happening.
This fellow, Al Terry.
Who is John Terry?
Al Terry is the labor leader up there.
What a man.
What a man.
He's been a fantastic organizer.
He turned that election for this fellow Hines in Pittsburgh.
He is totally in your corner.
He runs that group, that same class of people.
He and a few others like Rizzo have it, doesn't he?
They run it like Rizzo runs his gang.
They're tough, and they cuss, and they have the 3,000, the 2,500 people at this dinner setting.
Every other line of the Ontario is a cuss word.
But when he talks about you, you stand up for this president by God.
The whole place stood on their hands.
That crowd, which is not the Republicans in the past, tough Irish organizers, the United Owners, John and Carol, great big, really good, lifelong Democrat, he's with us.
The same reason that Rizzo, that's how, the same reason David, that's why he's here.
Even though Daley can't be with us.
But personally, I think Daley personally is.
What Christy knows, I stood up for him on his damn cops.
When every other Democrat ran away from him.
I never criticized that Chicago cop, you know.
Never have.
What it is, Mr. Perkins, is a combination of facts.
It's an identification of the individual view of the man.
Secondly, the social issue.
The race over guns.
Bussing.
Loyalty, toughness, not permissive.
And frankly, the problem is the issue of the stance on abortion, the stance on school aid.
This is very important to these things.
Speaking of abortion, Dr. Holliman, what is your analysis of these?
They're the wrong book.
They millhouse and so forth.
They're sick stuff, but how effective are they going to be?
The only effect they will have is to make people sympathetic to you.
They don't.
They're too rough.
They're too rough.
In the Roth book particularly, Milhouse, I haven't seen it, but I suspect they would do the same thing.
But the idea of personal smear attacks on the president, no matter who he is, turns people off.
Yeah, I don't think the smear attacks on Johnson hurt.
What it does...
When a man is in the office, it's different to smear a candidate.
But when a man is president, there are a lot of people in the middle who don't like to see the president.
I'm sure some of our people do about that.
Rob is a bad man.
No, he is.
He's a horrible, moral leper, a sinner.
He's been in the Supreme Court, you know, a long time ago.
Isn't that the same on Philip Brompton?
Yeah, that's right.
I think that's it.
It went to a court of appeals, I think.
A court of appeals, I guess.
I think it was court of appeals, which is a vile book.
But he ends with, I think one thing, where he may have overdone it.
He could do all the other things, but ending with the assassination of the president.
I don't know people like that.
Even the Kennedy people would be turned off by that one thing.
I'm sure of it.
What that kind of smear stuff does is those people who despise you, who will never be with you, kind of secretly cheer about it and say, well, that's great.
Most care about it.
People don't like it.
Bruce Van Asenby, for example, he's filmed.
That cost money to make the film.
That can't be done.
It'd be interesting to find out how you do that.
Another small thing, if you would.
run us through the bits of their shot.
And the Washington Post reporter did a horrible, scary job on the Shah's wife, and I just want to be sure, whoever she is, that she's forever barred in the White House.
That's a good, honest story, too.
We've got Cheshire barred, and that other, that old bitch, the other bitch, but I mean barred.
They are never to be allowed in the White House.
I have an idea on your cartoon.
I think massive distribution may be too dangerous and too difficult.
I think what it is worth, though, is to send over a couple of people to London, take them with their mailing lists, buy the tear sheets, mail it from London, and mail it to every congressman, every senator, Democratic National Committee members, state generals,
And if you, for that matter, you know what I mean, that kind of, a list of about 8,000 to 10,000, you see what I mean?
And key editors, congressmen, senators, mayors, you know, the kind of people that will talk.
Maybe some runner, probably like the Billy Graham should get one.
How does that sound to you?
Rather than a massive distribution.
I just think a massive distribution is going to run a bit.
It's just too big of a deal to order that many reprints in Jesus Christ.
Well, we haven't reprinted any, you know, outlaw print books here in the U.S. Well, we probably haven't printed them there, but you would duplicate the list, and it's still legal, but there are a lot of bad arguments to do that.
and they've taken a great amount.
But anyway, I don't know.
What do you think about having a male from London taking an office?
It doesn't throw off on much people, but it does show some, you know what I mean?
It'll, what it'll cause is a hell of a lot of people will get mad at the British, and that might just escalate the issue.
The British are going into the tent.
The British are going into the tent.
If it were male in this country, then it would be clear
I think it would be most likely to interpret it as coming from Moscow, you're right.
But that limit, limit the distribution, that's what I heard from the Irishman.
The Irishman, limit, limit the distribution, that's what I heard.
I just feel that it's too risky to go to Cuba.
And I think, and just getting that thing around, I just, I have a feeling, no matter what people are going to do, that's going to have a bombshell effect on them.
They'll put that down, and people will carry it in their pockets.
It's just key enough that anybody would take it and pass it down.
Send it to someone, actually send it to some Republicans, and they'll,
It doesn't really take that many to get it to the right people.
In today's world, we need more of that.
In today's, with Xerox machines everywhere, people run that kind of thing through and just spread it all over the place.
But Rachel ran it through the best, and I've had calls from people who saw it in cities where when they publish
Because some of the souvenir hundreds have been coming and taking pieces out of it.
The bridge is collapsing.
People carving pieces of it.
So they're now rebuilding the bridge.
And of course, that's just only an invitation for reporters to go up and get pictures.
And over the next several months, while they're rebuilding it, that's a story.
It was a very clever time, but anyway.
I don't know who's responsible for it.
I don't know who he is.
You know, I'm sure that all of it would be despite him.
The way it worked was really good.
Upset me trying to decode me.
He said, I'm some guy down there that can't be famous.
He said, that guy is never around either.
For him to be criticizing the president this way is a sin.
He said, I can't answer him.
I've got to get elected to Massachusetts next year.
But we're going to do it very differently.
We're not going to have a
It would be just a little, you know, figure of how people would buy it.
Gentlemen, as a result of the success of our, taking the success of our urbanization program, the reduction of our cash is impressive.
I have now found that it's possible to substantially increase the rate of our control on the economy.
Over the next two months, for the next two months, we will bring on 40,000.
That's going from 14,000 to 20,000 a month.
In January, I will be making another announcement.
Now, multiply.
That means all Americans, assuming throughout, will be out by the end of August.
It means, as far as the executive order, if you were going to vote for the executive order, most people think they should.
They think that president's important now.
Everybody will be out for the UPA crew by the first of May.
But the 40,000 you see, the fact that that increase is not the 20,000, I think that's as good as we can do at this point.
That's a pretty good figure.
Everybody will interpret it as, that was a similar, that's true again, to wherever you are.
Also, they'll figure, too, this market is something from the air.
Exactly.
They were going to do something more.
We will.
We do plan.
And then in January, that gives us a chance to make the... See, in January, we will then make the final announcement.
I've been trying to make the final announcement.
That will raise a great deal of speculation of why you said the two months were...
In the past, people always had said...
I know.
I'm going to say it.
So they'll be in there.
And they'll say, well, what about... What are you going to do?
Because I want to re-appraise the situation then, in regard to what progress is being made in the release of our prisoners to rest.
And then I'll make another announcement then, and say it might be that it might be going down.
Which it might.
And I might increase the burden, too.
I want to have, I want to make another great one, I mean, as far as, you know, prison release.
So I'm going to sort of put that number in there.
That's excellent.
That's great.
And I think we can live with that, don't you?
Especially, you know,
the President gives you say because you want to appraise the prisoner's situation over the next few months.
If you say that, that's exactly the thing to put it on, because that's the thing that the people will say, well, good, good.
He's not giving away any more than, it's clear he's coming out, and it's clear it's coming to an end, but there must be some area where the prisoners
It must be safe to have any, because that's the main reason I'm doing this.
I just got to have Mark do it, because I know that those prisoners should be in there next fall.
And I think that we can do it very well.
I think if you do it on that basis, it puts me afraid that we'll be played by the prince very big.
I agree with you.
Even if it's worse, what they'll say, what Natsby will say is that we've always reserved the right to keep the
50,000 or 60,000 Americans, we'd kill that thing.
And anybody they say they're reserving that right, Scott gets up and says, well, Senator, don't you believe we should reserve a right to keep people there along the way?
That's right.
Kill them on that.
Because the Congress will be on it now, hopefully.
I think this year they're going to want to get home.
For sure.
They're not going to want to carry it.
The Democrats want to get home.
They're getting a little too close to the big year for them.
to take it out of here from the middle of December to the middle of January.
I think there's more likely to be a package than there's a bunch around.
Let's go back to the beginning of that month for a month.
Well, I know I would say that.
I mean, if we get an audience for the month of December 15th to January 15th, then that's... That takes the heat off.
We continue to debate on that school event.
It's going to be about war and offense.
I don't think they're going to be able to sit across from each other.
I don't think they're going to be able to debate on that directly.
They've delayed too long on that.
They aren't going to gain from that.
Frankly, he's just going to point out that he can't call a conservative call for that health of our constituency.
I think that the hearings only today in the press, the initial press floor, were going very well.
I don't think they'll build up.
I don't think they can build up that kind of agreement.
because they don't have the open, the acceptable philosophy.
They really don't have the basis for it.
They don't have it.
That isn't a legitimate basis for them to play that.
Cars will only have something else.
They don't live on a basis.
Cars are not the basis for it.
Pardon me for all the confusion.
You belong to a restricted club.
Not one in the name of Christ that we are going to do on the story side.
You belong to a restricted club.
I remember when they thought that Supreme Court had her water.
This is bullshit.
For their own bones with restricted covenants.
Oh, of course.
Humphrey.
Humphrey.
They can't open it.
Humphrey does.
It's a bad rap, Chuck.
It's a bad rap.
It's a terrible thing.
But if you go back and look at the qualifications of the appointees that Kennedy has made in the court,
Yeah, but it was moving over there.
It's hard to understand how we go up on small money.
Usually it goes down on small money.
I can't understand how we go up on small money.
At 2 o'clock, there had been 10 million shares.
It was up 11 points.
9 points on 7.5 million shares.
That is the very way
I think what counts, Mr. President, is if business goes in and places heavy orders on the investment tax rate this year.
If they place heavy orders on the investment tax rate this year,
And the consumers buy heavily in early December.
It ended 14.6 up on Friday with 14 million shares.
And it now finished at 842.58.
So we just kept 14 points up all day.
That's up to three.
We're just going up steadily every hour a couple of months all day.
I wonder if funds began to get back into that.
They may have bought this for some time and started buying again.
Well, they have no money.
The funds, the guy and all they did, they got some money.
They may have gotten that.
That's very valuable, too, because people buy mutual funds interchangeably in savings amount, and they may well get money in the last couple of weeks.
I think you'll find that they took that 4% as a very big savings.
I mean, goddammit, it wasn't nothing.
Did you ever talk to Burns?
Yes, sir.
He, uh, he had me talk to him, but I think he's a little, still a little angry at me.
Why don't you call him?
He's got you in the market going on.
Right now, he's just sitting at the phone.
He's in the market.
He's talking to you about it, and he's just faking it.
It's very old.
It's got to be useful.
He's mad because of that story about his favorite issue, when his knees were getting out of the truck.
He had to take a second turn back for it to be available in these cities.
He didn't know that your friends in Wall Street had called him, and he just didn't have a very good time congratulating him on what he had done.
Yes.
Yes.
Oh, sure.
I forgot about that.
Would you give him a message for me, please?
the reaction we have gotten today from Wall Street and Dr. Brown's statement yesterday on the dividend decision has been very, very enthusiastic and probably is, at least in the analysis of some people, probably accountable to the fact that the market went up 14 points today.
Yeah, I think so.
that we really appreciate the fine job you've been presenting like yesterday.
It's given the movie up there, and it is a movie.
But just probably, we're very close to the end.
I was just sending a memo to the president telling him that I wanted to address the fine.
Thank you.
He's at the Coastal Living Council meeting, so I gave him a second hand.
But she said that she's got an ego like mine, but she said,
Oh, I'm sure that's what made it work today.
He's got such an enormous ego.
I like him.
Is he going up to Yark?
He's going up to the 17th.
He is.
He is.
That's what I'm going to make for you.
putting them out, putting up their stories.
But that's what made it totally mad.
And in fact, we didn't.
We got the budget here.
Like everything else, you take the...
Sometimes when it's for real, and sometimes it isn't.
Well, he's sounding better.
Keep pointing at me like that.
easing up on the money support.
Arthur said that he was, first of all, he didn't agree that it did any good as a matter of economics.
But nonetheless, he was easing up.
In the event he was wrong, he would rather be proven wrong with too much expansion because the money was not enough.
His attitude is good, since you saw him last week.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Well, should I hold on to these guys?
Well, you know, you've helped me enormously because oftentimes when you ask me to get someone to say something in my head, and then you let them mention it, I never sit in person and ask them to.
I don't think I should, because if something goes wrong with that, or I think you've tied to it, plus it's easier to talk to me with myself.
But then when you let us say that I noticed what you did, or I saw that, or...
I was pleased with what you said.
Next time, it's a third of the effort to get me to do it.
The last hour of the press on the basis of that, not only did it go up traditionally, but the environment was pretty good for an hour and a half.
Four million shares.
That means that some people were coming in as they saw it go up.
Correct?
Yes.
Three and a half million shares in the last hour and a half.
That's increasing the rate of money.
In fact, it was, come to think of it, it was starting up a bit too.
People should buy stock because of the basic...
Basic power of profits, for one thing.
Profits are good.
Third quarter profits were up there with the evidence of the steelhead.
Third quarter because of the strike.
We have wholesale prices tomorrow.
The wholesale price index for us.
We know we've got the big drop last month.
It went down.
It went down.
It went down four times.
It went down.
If they do, they have to adjust it at the same time.
And then all the adjustments have to be made in the distance.
And in January, when they adjust it out, they have to bring it back to the real business.
And when they get rid of the seasonal adjustment for the year, they'll probably, I would imagine, they'll start it down, edge it down, cover it.
It's a key area that we need to arrive very closely next year.
We get our own people in there.
Oh, I didn't know that.
It was very political.
All the way.
But he's a Ph.D. in statistics, and he can't correlate with his professional work.
He's a great detective.
We found another job for Jeff Moore.
And where are you going to get that?
It's a position that we, you know, we're going to develop that.
Probably an improvement.
Well, it's a permanent job.
It's something he'll have as long as he wants it.
And it's in an area that I think he'll like.
We thank you for talking to him.
I'm working on getting touch since we've located him.
And we have a spell in front of him.
You need a good, strong man like that.
But if we get our man in as a first degree, he really, he doesn't even have to, he doesn't have to bend any numbers.
He just has to keep the numbers relatively honest throughout the year.
This year's pattern would not have been bad if they hadn't gone through the gyrations of the day.
I took four months off for every month then.
Since somebody turned me way bigger, it's just not a good question to have somebody like me.
It's hard to work on Elliot and Jane playing everywhere.
He's just such a wild man.
I guess in the years he has been, we've been attached to him for years.
And he's wrong.
Always been wrong.
He's never been right.
And yet he always gets publicity.
Most people don't take him seriously.
The sentry told me that he has the name Kalani Jane in his name.
Everybody calls him on the street.
Uh, the down-going is fine.
Oh, I'd like to, I'd like to be a bear.
And, uh, yeah.
And I'm buying on that basis for the shoot.
Yes.
I mean, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my.
Well, as Conley said, even as I think is the case, it's not that bad right now.
Hey, I'm strong.
Sure, exactly.
She makes no sense, but the poor kids in the county, they feel a little more like we did, depression.
But you can't look at it, we're there, we're there, and then you got, you know, these kids with all of their problems and so forth, let's face it, they want to get married, they got buddies to meet, they got all that sort of thing, and you just got to, they got to be able to move that word forward.
This was the thing that, this was the thing that said, how's your kid, you know, you're already on, you're able to move that word forward.
Beautiful.
Beautiful.
I met him last night.
He's working with young people.
He's doing a great deal with the young people.
He's doing a good job in that area.
He's bright and beautiful.
He's a very personal fellow.
He's very frank and very outspoken.
Last night I had him working all night.
I remember the vice president's speech the other day.
And he came in and said, I had Mr. Vice President's book used.
The virus part is what got rid of him.
He came to me last night and said, no, I've got it.
I've got it.
But it was good.
It was tough stuff.
He's a very, very able, very good.
He works all day and night.
He's done it.
He just did a report for me on the Spanish-speaking people.
That's, I think, the best thing we've put together in the way that it's done for me.
Yes, sir.
A plan for the ways in which we can effectively come up with a plan.
In case, uh, I don't see it.
Well, I'm sorry.
You've heard about all this stuff.
I think you've got two of them.
Sure.
Well, the Bonneville thing will help us.
That is a little kickback there, wouldn't it?
I think that's it.
We've just got the, uh,
One of the talents I hear is that you just talked to the Council on Spanish-speaking people into buying 600 one-dollar bills and having her personally audit them and then sending them to the Spanish-speaking leaders.
Do you do that lately?
Oh, yeah.
It's a custom.
Oh, thank you.
One of the traders in that stage.
Right.
Is there a...
There are little things that we have going one by one.
I think the liberal way of doing it is an issue.
The Kennedy station was unrecognized in Cuba.
We just got it.
We never thought he was going to carry it forward.
We're going to get that around.
Oh, that's true.
We've got a man down there.
Our former CIA operator, Howard Hunt, has been working on the Pentagon papers today.
ran through the government exile, leading up to the day that all of his friends are dead.
That's been widely distributed.
He's also got his friends available to him.
The first time, the first time in a month, the largest time of the year in our own history.
I mean, that's true.
It's the first time since you announced phase two that it's counted.
Yesterday was the first day of it.
Friday and on Monday, you had 30 of them up and at the point.
Yesterday, up two.
Today, 14.
Monday down 13.
I sort of brought that back.
It's not bad.
I heard once you were going out in the real world.
It's going to roar over the house.
Everybody in the market predicts a boom here next year.
In the market?
In the market.
March or January.
March is bullish.
Yes.
Yes.
That's really, Mr. President, the only insider ability.
Yes.
That's why we went to you and sent you on a tour.
Did I call like that for me?
Did you realize that that'll be the case again?
Well, the fact that you did it against me.
Well, we're not about to get him.
We're not against him.
We're pleased with him.
You want to do it again?
I don't know.
See, I don't think I just sent him on a date with us here.
I don't...
to give the business community one hell of a job.
Maybe not.
Okay, they may feel like they did when we kept meeting in the pay board, you know, like they did now.
No, because in this case, all but one of the business members will be courted.
And we will quickly get the word out that it was the business proposal that was written that Biagini and Cicillian put that together.
And they're known as hard-headed businessmen.
And if it's their proposal,
coupled with something in the four, five, or six area the next year.
That'll be a great signal for businesses.
I think of the best in 10 and 12.
It's only about that because of the six-year victory.
The rate of inflation, the figure of the rate of inflation, we know we're not going to get to 2.5.
The rate of inflation is 3.5.
That's only 2.5 for growth.
That's fair enough.
Also, labor costs are only half of your business costs.
The other half, they figure it's 50-50.
So 6% is really 3% directly to the price.
So they would say
They would take that as a very foolish sign.
My reaction to the Roth book and that sort of thing is generally to ignore that sort of stuff.
Is that yours?
Yes, sir.
I think that we should accept it.
It would be well-defined.
I don't do that.
I put it this far because it can't be much.
They're the kind that are capable of it.
Oh, very much so.
I should say they are.
Thank you.
My first political campaign was on the other side of the campus.
I remember how Larry O'Brien and Ken O'Dell used to play.
I learned a lot from them.
I must say, it was a hell of a lot of watching how they got there.
Well, the pain was because they put in their keeps, and they go to the judge, and everybody thinks that Kennedy is a gentleman, and if there are any of the Kennedys, they're gentlemen when it comes to television.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, he was a very successful author.
He did as well as he would have been.
I think it's D'Antonio from his background.
No, no, he's a...
He was a middle-rank film producer, but he was on television being interviewed on the book.
On the national educational television.
And it was just a vicious performance.
Utterly vicious performance.
But he was very frank.
He said he did the film because he wanted to destroy Virginia.
No commercial television station will give him a review.
Is anybody kept in that?
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
Who is the son of a bitch that does this now?
The guy that does it is a soldier who works for Hartman Gun.
And they really make the basic programming decisions under these basic elements.
and we're getting nice and clear working on that.
We haven't gotten control before, it's a big problem.
I have reached a conclusion, and I know this is gonna hang a lot of people, that if I don't have that work that has to be made, that I think what has to be done, and what are we gonna do to reduce our influence on disability and to go to a table number limit.
I don't see anything else.
I think that the cable group, we don't know much.
I know that we've been holding that over, but what's your feeling about that now?
Well, in the long run, that's correct.
In the long run, the cable hurts them.
The cable decision, the trouble with the cable decision is that it strikes them a very hard blow.
but it doesn't leave them for about five years.
And the difficulty is that it would be just like you're saying to them, I'm going to do you in, but I'm not going to be able to finish you off for five years.
And while they won't do it, they'll do it.
You'll do it next year.
Oh, I'll do it next year.
I'll do it the day after the election.
Yeah, that's a good reason to do it.
Sure.
The effort book is going well.
Yeah.
Oh, I was going to ask.
Excellent.
Yes, sir.
If you may, I want to talk to you about people like Philip Graham.
That's a pack of people that's...
Yes, you have a list of companies.
We sent a... Oh, you sent a review, actually.
We sent 9,000 of us a week before that.
Of the book itself?
No, of the reviews.
We're now buying several hundred copies of the book, which will be distributed by this accuracy of the key people who are
We'll select that list very carefully.
Editors, broadcasts, who are basically private.
And now we're going to send the crystal book review out, which we'll get in the re-printing portion.
Yeah.
That's the best thing that's been printed yet.
It's incredible.
It's highly respected.
It's basically a liberal, very respected, beautifully written piece, and makes her poems better than she makes them.
and go into portrait, which a lot of sophisticated people read.
We haven't heard the end of her.
She's doing it.
I just got her scheduled films that she has taped that she's done, 30 or 40 local programs.
They're still running, still going on.
She's doing them every week.
She's got a good booking agent now.
She's doing an excellent job.
She's been on five shows in Chicago.
She's been on one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine in New York.
I'll help sell the book.
I just need people reading that book.
We're so infuriated.
Oh, it's a good question.
It's as it did Christmas.
You can't read that without realizing that these guys are...
Consciously or unconsciously, they're just kind of conscious.
I don't think it's conscious in terms of the man himself.
Most of those guys are basically actors.
I'm very bright.
I'm a little white now, and I'm a little more bright in that company.
There are a lot of black actors, and that's all they do.
That's what they're like.
I think some of the folks out front, I think, the reason it's been showing this color is because of the light on it.
What do you know what he's doing?
It's interesting.
As Howard Smith goes through one of these cycles of becoming terribly pro-Nixon, Howard Smith has become this kind of way of reasoning that starts to balance him off.
It's almost a reflex reaction.
You know, he almost acts like he's debating with Smith.
Smith has had some marvelous kind of forms of foreign policy and foreign policy.
I had a secret agency this morning.
We ship this.
I don't care what people say.
They're awful good Americans.
Yeah.
They caught it completely.
They don't let the gang go.
They're meeting tomorrow with Teddy Gleason and the three other minors.
And providing that, you know, providing that you push him over, they've got to roll over the police.
And what do they do about that right now?
We don't have to do anything.
They're going to let the rain go.
When can we get them?
Tomorrow.
Well, we'll either have it tomorrow or they'll tell us that we have a flight.
But the two leaders, Cal and Will, Andy Gibson, who's the Marathon administrator, Jim Hudson and I met with this morning, and we got their agreement, their handshake, without having to give them any oil.
We just agreed to it.
to enter bilateral negotiations with the Soviets when Stans goes to Moscow.
Plus, there are some other things we're doing for them.
That's the first thing they want.
Now, the only thing is, they have to go back to the Soviet Union, which consists of 400 people, and I think there's a...
I'm sorry, I think we will do it.
Here, technically, but...
There's two other things we can announce if you want.
I don't need that.
No, that would be incredible.
It's a psychological thing.
The farmers, if they see that much corn moving out, that's a great deal.
It's the beginning of something good.
That would be a big lift in the farmer.
A big lift in the corn industry.
I don't encourage them to do that.
You know, if you lifted it, if you lifted it,
I've been recording for 10 years, and I can't think of anything to do with it.
It's a bit of a surprise to me.
I just want to get it out now, and make sure that all of these senators get out now.
I don't want to be crazy.
You know, it occurs to me that these senators run a lot better than they should.
They have a lot of people out there.
I just want to get it out now.
I don't want to be crazy.
to talk to Ted, but you ought to do this.
Well, Ted said the best solution, you know, he said, really, we need him to help us back, because if he does walk out of this, then the president continues to freeze.
And he said, well, we'd have revoked him on our work.
He said, oh, they're happy that they were just revoked on George Floyd.
I said,
You know, I think that that does happen.
That's what we're going to have to do.
We cannot let it go.
We'll just keep the breeze on.
People scream some, but most of the American people support it.
Yes, they will.
And you see what's involved.
Somewhere between one and a half minutes,
There's too many workers that have improved wages.
Therefore, if the freeze stays on, and what, 90% aren't affected by it because they didn't have wages, the screens will come from the 10% who aren't getting their improved increases.
But there will be- We know that this is an option we have.
I think that's very clear what was done last night.
In fact, I didn't say it was an option.
I said this is what I thought we were gonna do.
This is what we're gonna do.
And George better understand
We created the very mechanism that he wanted.
The first decision, he wouldn't agree with.
Therefore, I had no choice.
One of us will work hardships for some people.
The National Council will do it.
We can give the Council more discretion to make a check.
That's right.
It's going to give us a perfect excuse to continue it for a few months and then say that the federal is going to do it.
That's not a bad option.
I'm talking about the Schultz list.
The Schultz list.
You see, back then, if you continued for three months, and I'd say, well, we've got this down, and we've got to remove it.
Maybe there's no mechanism or anything else.
Try it.
Get rid of the goddamn pay board and the price commission.
That's the worst thing.
It's not a bad fallback.
If it falls, it's the same thing.
Because basically, then, too, you're able to take on me.
That's right.
I wouldn't take on any other leader.
I would take on this one man.
You shouldn't, because Abel, who was sitting there all sitting there, doesn't agree with you.
He looked like a man.
And he wouldn't.
He'd take the hell out of you.
You wouldn't have him.
Preston would just go on and on.
He walked out of that door because he didn't get his way.
I think you would have given him all of the weapons you wanted to have.
Henry, you tied up, are you with somebody now?
Oh yeah, yes, stay right there in the first row.
Well, I'll take your time, I'll take your time.
That's very important.
I don't expect you to be for a quarter of five years.
I'll just give you another half hour.
We'll keep this.
We'll keep that one.
Schultz and I will not believe it unless we get to the decision.
All right, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
If you could drop over now, please.
You got somebody?
Oh, I'll bring her over.
Okay, okay.
Oh, let me put her on the phone.
She's there, yeah.
Hi, Kelly.
I was wondering if we ought to try to take that little walk today if you would just come down here.
Fine.
How long do you think you should allow me for?
I'll be over a quarter after five.
Because I have a quarter after five come on and do it.
We'll be over there and I'll do it.
If they don't come on and do one or two and fight Rose, it would be nice to do it.
Well, fine.
Quarter after five.
I should mention that...
I was talking with Vince yesterday.
After lunch, I didn't ask him, I called him, and I asked him how he was doing.
He didn't even raise it.
Yeah?
Oh, how did he come?
I don't know what you said.
Interestingly, what he said, he said, I've been promised so many times.
He said, actually, I didn't tell him.
I didn't tell him about the people, the interviews.
Well, he said, I've been promised a damn many times that I'd never give up, but John Fishel told me today that you were talking about something that was in the works.
I said, well, let me know that it is.
He said, yes, and I made a decision about it.
He said, I don't believe anybody in the world because it's the third time I've been promised.
How much would it be, really, to him?
Well, he gave me a very interesting bit of information.
He said that
Of course, he said, you know, Chuck, I don't want him out unless the government has the ability to bring him back here.
We can't do that.
We can't do that.
And I said, well, that means parole.
He said, that's right.
He said, that's the way.
Fitz is mad about it at the moment, especially with the quantity.
He brought it down once, of course.
We didn't really, we did our best.
What the hell?
What do you mean?
Maybe then he would boast about it.
He would want it.
No, I think he would take it because he would have a choice.
How would we?
He's under some terrible pressure.
I knew if we do do this, I think,
We've got some proxies on the other side of the crime.
Bill will explain it to the worst and tell Bill, well, God damn you, who started being the decent Bill.
But not too decent.
He didn't want to help.
He just didn't want to do too much.
He saw him attack other people, attack their aircraft.
Basically, what Fitz said is that, obviously, Mr. President, he's got to come out and get him out.
And he is being looked upon as our kind of our boy.
He said to me, it's not because of Walter that I'm your boy.
He said, I am your boy because I believe in photos, and I believe in the president, and I believe in what you're doing, and I support you.
And he said, I supported you in 1968.
He said, I put my executive in.
He said, I pushed him.
And he said, I will support you next year, and my executive committee will support you next year.
But he said, the Harper forces, and you have to understand, I started this back four years, 35 years ago.
He said, they expect me to deliver, because they think that I'm a friend of the administration.
And he said, I feel like my own position is in jeopardy if I can't deliver.
But he said, I hope you can call him out on such a basis
I would think he would be.
He's caught in the middle.
He's an attempt on it.
I gave him the opening, but I was playing dumb.
I said, I didn't even know it was being considered.
But I gave him the opportunity to say that if he, what would it take for him to stay on the paperwork at any cost?
He said, I'll stay on it at any cost just because you asked me to, provided you recognized the sanctity of the country that a labor man can't possibly survive.
He didn't say that he would.
If you left off a red, I'll stay on the paper when you're not with me.
I spoke it up.
I think it's perfect.
It's the right thing to do.
It's the right way.
There's no way possible for the pro boys to pull it back.
I promise you this is the way.
You think so?
You do it now.
You fight the boy now.
Avoid the pressures that will come next year.
See, the pro boys are going in on that, son.
They're waiting for any of us.
Yeah.
Okay, now, we take the first case.
And that will be...
Yes, sir.
The first case will be...
Yes, sir.
Oh, my God.
Thank you.