Conversation 302-032

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I had to be able to find any of them.

Well, I told him about the defense, about this sort of thing, and then I said about, I don't know what, how'd you both go to the U.S.?

And that's all I said.

And how hard did he fight for the next one?

He's got many riches now.

Well, that was... That was the one thing that stayed with him.

I know.

That's a passion of mine.

Well, the other meeting is very good, except it permits me one thing, because we have to keep control of the legislative strategy here.

Bill should go out and make public statements.

But statements, if they keep only a few more conventions, it would already offer a compromise for separating security assistance from development.

Let them both be handled in that committee.

And have the both handled in that committee.

Because they think that way they can get security systems out of the river.

It's the rest of the house that wants the folks to get them.

Because that's how they don't get compensation.

So we've cut them all down.

I don't know if there's any other questions.

We don't have any other questions.

But I was strongly urged that they should not put their heads in bed and try to be safe and healthy to come inside.

I don't want it either, but .

Well, .

You can't just .

The more I .

I think we'll get away with it later.

And.

So if anybody wants to qualify out and try to take that debt out on the first encounter, we're going to get it.

We've got a condition.

We're going to be paying the walker we need to see how you think it could work.

And then we'll get another thing.

We'll get anything else.

Because if we don't get a settlement, which is not a deal, and we're in a position where we know we're going to need it.

What we can do is no draftees immediately, and all volunteers can go into the physical court.

The difference between no draftees and all volunteers is that they lift people who have lived, and they tend to get to be in after the no draftees.

All right.

Come in.

How are you?

Give us a report.

He thinks that I sold out China.

Oh, is that what you did?

He threw the U.S. vote.

Oh, yes, I did.

Now, what do you think this man is doing?

You never know whether he thinks you're a strength to him.

I don't think that.

He kind of encourages some of his strengths.

That's right.

His strengths are saying this.

What I want to ask you at the outset, because you don't want to do this.

I think it would be very helpful if you walk over to him and question him.

I just want to say that.

Now, the, I don't,

It seems to me that the best line, the best line here, as I understand it, what has happened here is that we've been given to the staff and the senators, and we're caught in crossfire.

We've got the do-gooders who want to put in record fees and fuel and all that stuff.

And we've got the hard lines who don't care much about the feds, who care a hell of a lot about the feds.

And basically, the problem now is trying to split the

And I had two separate bills, one on humanitarian and one on defense assistance.

Well, that is not the one.

They certainly are not there to do that.

That's the point.

I've already talked to Henry about that.

One thing we've got to do.

This is a very common problem.

We have got to change this guy.

We have to do it next year.

We've got to go in.

The armed services have to have the defense assistance.

And the, uh, the, uh... Well, there's a point you could have about it.

I thought...

I know.

When did we transfer?

What was it?

Well, the argument that was made was...

That's the way to get Fulbright before it goes down.

Yeah, that's the only way to get Fulbright.

Well, that is not going to work that way.

We have never gotten Fulbright or Mansfield anyway.

And that committee, you can isolate them in this area now.

The best way to do it is to make this a part of the Defense Authorization Act now.

Because it is tied up with the whole idea of the total force .

That's what it's all about.

Now, the thing that I was thinking,

particularly health and sciences.

It was really a good solution.

First, let me now let you well know the reason a lot of senators voted for it was because 75% of the people of Kansas are against for it, period.

On the other hand, if you put forward a forum for militaries in terms

of helping others to help themselves.

And this is the way to bring Americans home.

This is the way to implement the Nixon Doctrine.

Without this, our treaty commitments might require the presence of Americans more.

You see, this is a devastating issue.

And it's true.

Take Thailand as part of this issue.

That's what we're trying to say.

What are we going to do?

Let's forget Vietnam.

We've got to treat it.

We've got one in Thailand.

We've got one in Korea.

Correct.

But Korea, as a good example, because the other program, which is partly that it's all about the duality.

Exactly.

I think you could use that.

Well, you could use that.

But also, you could use Vietnam.

Success of Vietnamization depends.

I don't think I should say anything about splitting it off now.

No, no.

Let me say this.

We're talking just in the church.

I have determined that after this is over, then we have got to bite that bullet.

I agree.

Absolutely.

And you can tie it up in a core structure all over the world, and that's what it's all about.

But I think what I want to say now is that this whole program is needed for us to pursue this generation of peace that you adopted.

That's right.

That's another good point.

We now have it.

We now have our negotiations on destroying proportions that will affect the future of the world through the Soviet Union.

And with communism.

that these negotiations, to be successful, must be conducted from not the position of leaders, and not the position of the leaders, but the position of .

And that is what we do.

And that, for the United States Congress to indicate, you know, I believe that the United States is going to withdraw from it.

It will, some way, undercut the President's negotiated position.

You know, aren't we cool with, you know, is that our thunder right now?

It's not really true.

You can't cancel the meeting.

It's not supposed to be hard on anyone.

Well, as Mel tells me, it's not $565 billion that we're supporting.

It's absolutely essential for the economy.

That's the toughest issue we have in Vietnam.

It's the only tough issue.

It's really the toughest issue.

Right now, I have an economy in Spain.

This is what you're saying, too.

And Mel said...

was very instrumental in getting this economic program tested over there.

And if that goes down, these people want us to get us.

They want us to lose.

We'll have to keep our troops there.

What's that?

We have to keep our troops there.

Yeah, if we want to save them.

They don't want to save them.

When we come right now, we can't, at this point, we can't save them.

I was just looking over and Colson gave me a copy of his speech and then he caught me off guard.

That was extremely effective.

He had disobeyed the terms of the negotiation.

But all of that is, as you know, would be impossible if we were sitting here in a weak position.

It's not that simple.

But it's not an accident.

It's quite deliberate on the part of what

Oh, Scott.

Scott's a two-letter.

It's a coalition that's being put together.

That coalition, we can work the coalition another way.

The coalition that they have are the traditional opponents of any kind.

Plus, they don't have those arms.

You know what the House is going to want to do when they're going to talk to Joe?

I don't think they haven't had an opportunity, but I have to have an opportunity to talk to Jerry.

Yeah.

They want to be here.

And they want to put through the new resolution.

Well, they want to put through the appropriation bill without going through the office.

Why not?

Because you could end up having to have the State of the Union resolution.

The Senate would be up next.

They'd just like to throw it in the House of Representatives.

Well, then how would that be done?

It would come up through the appropriations committee.

Yeah.

And the appropriations committee probably wouldn't want to be in that jurisdictional fight, because it would still be over until after the Senate.

That's another good thing to do.

And I think they're right about the continuing resolution.

I hope, I hope that we're going to get a resolution in the morning.

Jerry wants to keep, and he's on the Senate agenda.

Don't you agree?

Yes, but I think that the virus is continuing.

The virus is continuing the resolution.

We'll have to get more than one of them, and that means that we'll have to have a little more than one of these because this jurisdiction is there.

The elevator will not take the leadership to do the work.

Here in the house, you've got that one, you've got Dan, you've got Eddie, you're in the streets, you've got your children, you've got all kinds of people.

We're back over there.

And Passman and the rest of them, from there, we've been all over the place.

Passman's pretty military stuff.

Oh, all the way.

Yeah.

He's been really great.

He's just against the pattern.

Sure.

But now, the position of the, what else do you think you can say?

Bill is going to be back tomorrow.

I don't want to provide you with money.

No, and I think it's important that they don't try to sell two bills before four right now.

We've got to get back to the fact that I haven't paid them.

I'm not finished with that.

But that is the pressure of the state.

But they want the bills to go back to duty.

One, it was $1,000,000 to put the security in the department.

But if they do it once, then it's got to be done again.

And secondly, they think that this is a way of taking full-blown security away from them.

I think that's nonsense.

I think what they will do is they'll take the Israel aid out of the security service and put it over to the humanitarian attack.

Israel is another very kind of country.

Israel is now on the military side, but they'll have shifted over to their calling manager.

And then, and then they'll report that out and, and we will agree to the differences to build your favorite book without the other one left.

That same thing came up last time.

They wanted to keep Cambodia separate from Honduras, Honduras, Honduras, Honduras, Honduras.

When did that come up?

A year or so ago.

They wanted to have it be supplemental.

You love Israel, you can't vote.

That was important, isn't it?

They wanted to have Israel separate.

Never.

They've all got to vote for Israel, but I'd rather they don't have to vote to cancel it.

You've got to keep it in.

It's like being in Social Security with H.R.

1.

Well, let's be sure that's understood.

Another point, I don't want to make that, I was just the wrong man to make that issue.

But this will work out.

It's too bad because it's the kind of effort you get around the world.

It's exactly right.

People are going to want to try it.

And also, we want to remember, you know, we've had this message twice.

Remember when we assigned it back to Maxie and the pastors and all this stuff, and everybody says, oh, there it is, great.

We just had to know the time.

Well, our allies, they love it.

They are confused.

There's no question about that.

But that'll work out.

Well, let's finish this part at all before we go.

the European part.

Because I understand that you can go out and do this thing a hard way, sure, or why do we have to have this?

We've done this before.

It's one of the most important policies.

It's just one of the most important policies.

It's been very hard on our allies around the world.

And it affects all of our allies.

And that person, if they have the impression that the United States is going to withdraw, they would make a position of more responsibility

Correct.

Definitely.

And that you made up the fact that you went to Vietnam is exactly part of the reason why we could do it.

Well, you could get to the economics and also that the success of our, our, the success of our U.S. military program would be, would not have been possible without, without basically the dollars, right?

I think that point could be made very specific.

Korea is an example, and we must do that in the whole United States.

So, uh, the, uh... Don't go ahead with the European side of the novel.

Then I want to go back to the, uh, to be a novel.

So, if you want to do this, you can be a novel.

I don't believe I should go there this time.

I was there the last time.

I just think I should get back here.

I'll be gone a week.

No, not at all.

I had to be in the right direction.

I do think that there is a problem as far as the Europeans are concerned.

They had the idea in the back of their mind, and I assured them that this was not the case.

But somehow or other, it worked, and they made a separate agreement with the Soviet Union on the reduction of forces.

And I mean, this is the first time they actually got up and said it in these meetings.

Do you believe it?

I don't believe it.

Or they had any basis to believe it.

No.

And I do agree with your statements.

right straight through.

They do come back, though, and I think I should tell you this, when they take your statement in April, and they take your statement particularly in the German students and your statement in Ireland, on the fact that force improvements is one of the ways to share a burden and to move forward with it.

including their forces that you don't want necessarily, just a dollar contribution to our budget.

Now, the Germans take this up, and they, Helmut Schmidt in particular, and I think you know about this, Helmut was in a very bitter fight with his cats.

He does not like the foreign minister or the kind of people who take him in front of me and tell him, you know, he's a leader for his party.

And he may come back.

He's a right-wing associate.

He's a very good enough foreign minister.

Yeah, that's true.

Yes, he only has 12 volts.

So Helmut is taking him on out.

Here's the problem we have.

Helmut will resign if he has to take the money from his budget and give it directly to our church.

and this is in terms of about $1,200,000.

If he has to do that, he's stepping out on the captain.

I don't think he was necessarily telling him this is a threat, because it doesn't make a difference.

He just feels that he has a service for his party, and he's in a conflict with the finance minister and the foreign minister, and they deal a little differently, you know.

Our system is a different system.

It's a problem for the system.

And Helmut feels that he has a commitment, stated by you, and stated by me, and stated by Henry, that we don't want to be paid directly.

He'll get the same amount of money from his budget.

And he's willing to do that for barracks and for service people.

We have German nationalists.

He'll take all those over and put them on his table.

And he'll take over the various instruments over him that we have $100 million in the budget for.

He'll pay all that.

And he'll come up with the same amount of money.

He doesn't want to send the money over here and then have our Congress appropriate it because he feels that they might not use it for defense purposes in Europe.

Right.

And he certainly feels very strongly about this.

Now, I don't want to get into it.

I brought this proposition home.

I told him that I would take it back to them and let them look at it.

That's all I've done.

Well, you put this in the discussions, don't you?

Yeah, I put this in the discussions.

And they had a problem.

And Helmut...

Thank you.

I don't see how we can do it all.

Well, it does make some, because our negotiators have taken a hard line the other way.

They have taken a hard line that no, this money must come to the United States.

and then it will be re-appropriated for that purpose by the, by the Congress.

Well, Henry, what is the situation?

I think that, uh, I think that, uh, I think what we need, I think we ought to walk up to you about this, that, that, that, that, that, that,

I think that the Germans have made quite a reason for not doing that.

And whether they've squeezed them for a little more or not, it's really not true.

It's just that they've held on.

They've brought out mere odds by holding out for some more, and then eventually you might not get it right.

And how much better to report to us?

that I helped financially.

Well, I just hope it's considered, and that's why I mentioned the memorandums.

I think that I wanted you to be aware of this, because I just think that this was dragged out, and you shouldn't get us into that kind of a fight in the future.

And as far as... Why can't we... How can we persist so long?

I don't know.

Do you want to grab hold of it?

No.

No argument at all.

I, frankly, have debated the relative intent.

We'll have to overrule treasuries, but I think I can handle Connolly on that, because for what Connolly has in mind, he's admitted that you do get such a role selling to the Jews.

I'm trying to make some sort of expression to you.

Exactly.

But therefore, if you get me this kind of a role,

I don't believe that a lot of people get this approach from college.

I tell you what I think you ought to do when you get a grant.

You don't know what you want to do.

Just say, you've got what I'm getting at.

Quite often, in terms of being able to make a separate deal with the jury, because you need some time to do your job yourself.

And you don't need to take any less money this way.

No, I haven't said that.

No, that's all right.

I didn't care about that.

He's very proud of the fact that he got

which is rather a substantial amount.

The fact that he's gone along with his billion dollar hurricane program, which he really went out and told, you know, he did a very good job on that.

He only considered doing anything of a substantial amount.

Well, the Germans, the British have come through, and I do feel that they've gone ahead with an increase in the time, but it's very difficult for them to increase their defense, but they have gone ahead with an increase, a supplemental increase, as far as defense is concerned.

And I think this is quite significant at this time.

And they haven't tied up with the fact that we are going into these discussions.

And now is the time to be showing some increase here.

And I think this is...

The one thing, Mel, you can't have absolute assurance of all these events.

You say that the last man in the world has ever, ever, ever negotiated with the Russians to reduce...

You know, our forces, our forces in Europe, without the collaboration of our allies, is being, I would, that's been a solid plank all the way through.

And the Russians are working.

We can talk cold turkey about that.

That isn't even on the agenda.

They never raised it.

And it might be a bit of a thing to do, and sort of be embarrassing to do this, I think.

Yeah.

to even drop by, once again, the NATO Council on your way back from Moscow.

Sure.

Think about that.

Where is that council?

Well, actually, that's a council.

It's something that should be brought about together.

Either that, or it's all the way over.

Or the NATO Council.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I see your point.

Way back in my report, I had the details.

As far as Malton is concerned, Carrington is very optimistic.

And he feels confident.

He just doesn't mind putting Russian in right now.

All right.

I was a little discouraged.

You're going to have a meeting.

Would you like particularly and someone

They should know, or send a, I'll tell you what you can do.

You can send a message to me first.

On the issue of, on the issue of, no, no, no, no.

Well, two things.

One, we appreciate the fact that the three of you come through on their own.

And also, that under no circumstances have I ever considered, you know, in any cost, the Russians would involve our commitments to NATO.

I think it's just a little bit that they've grasped.

There aren't very many tough guys over here.

That's the reason this is important.

The defense ministers are concerned

They're cut out more than that.

And I didn't want to get into a hearing, an argument.

I wanted to be careful about that because Bill was very sensitive about salt.

He was loaded with salt.

He really had.

Because we had Allison and Paul.

It was important to have them.

they've been strong in that delegation.

So I didn't insist upon putting up a defense in Maine.

Well, at the present, as far as the defense is concerned,

This explorer area, I don't think it's any important to me.

Now, in the second stage, it will happen.

But, well, you can get a little pregnant sometimes if you go exploring, too, of bushes.

I just...

Don't you do anything with it.

He did.

He did?

Yeah, he did.

I just .

.

It is a much tougher thing to do.

Let me ask you this.

We're keeping a hold on that.

We should in the NFC process.

All right.

That's our message.

That's the secret now.

We've got to be sure.

I will.

I reported into that a little bit.

But at this time, I didn't want to get into it.

There are times when you want to make an issue, and times you don't.

I understand.

But we have the message.

Everything is all lined up as far as the chemistry is concerned.

That's important.

As far as the

You know, I do have, when I go over there, I see some of these other people that I've known for a pretty long time.

I've been living with people like Harnell, who is a real nice guy.

He's a nice guy.

He's a man that really is responsible for the way we're acting in the middle.

I'm busy.

He organized.

Well, I just want you to know Helmut Schmidt nominated someone else.

I think he does.

We're all...

I'm good.

If I go over there at 3.30, I'm going to say, no, go on.

Go on.

We've got time.

That's what a briefing is.

I don't want to do it.

I don't know why I want to do it.

I think that it's important for us

not to show that we're going to make substantial reductions in our defense program that was submitted to Congress in January.

And I try to give the impression that we are not going in that direction at all.

I really haven't had any real direction on that issue.

And if you haven't further than that, you should.

But I think it's important that the major sector of defense is taking the position that we're going to be increasing our strength and improving our forces

We put 19,000 more people over there within the last eight months, and we're up now to 99.2% of our pay.

This is the first time that we've given that level since 1963, and it's an important thing to point out to these people that we're not doing it alone.

Let me just say a word on this.

They had data that said, you know, first, they didn't know what the hell it was coming from.

Second, from a political standpoint, we were quite aware.

Our friends on the right, Mike Buckley, et cetera, had made quite a cause out of the fact that we were doing all the action we had to do in order to keep the Constitution from falling behind.

So, and we must not let this happen, even though these are mostly except for Jackson, they're all in our money.

Third, in terms of what we do, I believe that the first requirement is that we have everything that is necessary both to maintain our position in the department, so the production and non-production of the nutrition farm.

Also, I think it's important

that we have due regard for all these legendary considerations.

And so, of course, Schultz would come and respond.

Now, since she was dead, I had a meeting with Schultz.

And we got to Schultz, and we wondered.

And I said, now, look, I noted what she was saying, and I noted what she said.

And I said, now, I want you to go back and look over these figures.

to see what we can come up with.

One area, one area that I feel very strongly about, I do think we can make some adjustments in terms of, say, looking at the things that do have an impact on science, the ICDF, which is my home, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

In terms of air events in conventional areas,

pass an area and trim that area to make more available in this area.

The key point that I would really like to get out of the plan is how we could do any more of that now that would relate to the education plan.

And on that story, you see, I'm not talking about modernization in the Navy or Army divisions, but that's about the degree to get down to the fact, should we build more ICBMs, should we build more medicaments, should we have a bigger program in the Navy, in Poland, in Russia, should we have a bigger, do more polarisers for, for example, direction,

Now, if the recommendation could come up, come up on that, even though they could walk the station, it would be my inclination to lean very shortly in that direction.

I think that would be quite helpful in our negotiation.

I have a memorandum for you.

I sent Henry a memorandum of seven things that I think we should do to resolve and increase our position there.

And one of them is... Well, I don't know.

But I think it's a good idea to give you a little bit of a...

But he has made some recommendations on how to keep up the strategic forces, the strategic forces, and it's not a paradox of what we discussed with folks the other day.

Yes, we can do that.

Yes, we can help with that.

Any of that will be done this year.

We can do a couple more summaries.

Conversions.

That work will forward immediately.

Yes.

I'm speaking to the job.

Well, I think it's about six months to get the paint in the dots.

But that would start then.

But it shows the movement.

May, by July, then we can get it going.

Yes.

We're on the same page.

Well, I said it to you, Henry, because I know you didn't say it.

Well, I'm summarizing it.

But I didn't say it to you.

I said it to Henry.

On defense, on defense now, I have not.

I just want to make sure that my view is just as strong as anybody's because of me.

that we not be in a weak position when we go to deal with the Soviet warfare that night with the Chinese.

They must not think, the Chinese, that we're getting the hell out of Asia, or we don't have the environment.

And for the same token, the Russians must not think, regardless of what they do in arms control, that we're going to get all this away anyway.

So my view is that we have that and for the reason that it is, or whether it's right or wrong.

I think it's important that we have that in place.

On the other hand, this won't affect our expenditure program.

The problem we have is that we're trading in these tax signals that we can get.

There's very little money involved in that.

But that's a thing that we want.

But on the other hand, another thing I want to do is watch for

is what could we spend?

What could we spend?

But suppose we wanted to give you $50,000 more for something that would help the defense, even though hard, but that would have a considerable impact on jobs.

Not anybody like that.

Oh, yes.

We have that.

We're looking at specific areas of the country

I talked to George Schultz about this today, about what could be done in this area.

I want to see that.

In some areas, we could even make some reductions.

I understand that.

So, we have that pretty well.

It's got a lot to do with the very basic matters that are not related to George Schultz.

We're now on the defense lane.

Henry, what's the situation?

We looked at it and went again.

There's a lot of reporting in terms of, you know, children's records.

Meisberg and I are meeting tomorrow to go to the state.

Then we're going to get into practice.

Later tomorrow, Wednesday, we're going to have to go practice training.

We're going to have to go to the state.

I want to make sure that we're good.

I don't care.

We won't do anything like this.

Now in Vietnam,

Your plan is basically just to go over and look over the situation.

And the main thing I would urge Conner to invent, of course, is to really, really, really let the team go back.

They crossed the bridge, and all this crap about the election is done.

Who is the president?

Here they are.

And they're not going to play it out, and so forth and so on.

I think that's important.

They know that we're credible too.

The last visit I had was in July, I'm sure.

Everything was way ahead of our total supply.

The other, my son of course, would call when they were there.

I don't know what time it was.

Well, that's what I'd like to be able to say.

I'm not going to discuss that.

Well, that would be the best.

He had done a good job.

Let me say, it's very important.

You see, a ton of these centers, either Scott or Raymond, are very good.

Scott has said, well, we can just end it now.

We're going to get out in six months.

Maybe we can do it, but we can't do it now.

You see, Mel, we can't say anything right now.

and not jeopardize all of the success of the organization and the field of the issue.

We have got to keep some uncertainty in the wild.

Now this doesn't mean we're not going to have an underdevelopment.

We are.

But you see what I mean?

I can't shut up people like Sir Robert.

He comes out and says we're not going to drop that.

Well, he's over there, and we are in good shape military.

His statement, he should have kept his mouth shut at this point.

But I can't stop him.

He's going to talk to all those businessmen over in Vietnam.

Well, I believe the impression of your...

I would particularly be very...

We don't want to get a P.O.W.

that was a draw in it.

You very well know about the P.O.W.

issue.

We're going to get out and say, give me a P.O.W.

They're going to return to the DOW and say, oh, fine.

Now, we'll return to the DOW and say, you'll cut the south end and say, .

Well, I don't like to get the DOW question .

Absolutely.

I like to keep it open-ended.

That's right.

But what I can say, if I'm asked, is that I'm going to be reporting to the United States.

You'll make the announcement.

And that's what I've said all along, that there's only one person who can make those comments.

If you understand what I'm saying.

But there's going to be more speculation.

It won't come from me and it won't come from people in our department.

I've got the department shut up.

We've got good morale over in our department.

I'm glad he was in the military.

Well, you know one thing about it, and I'm sure they're aware, I don't know the common law, is they must know this.

You know, I stood up for them.

I had no regrets about it.

In Jesus Christ's name.

Sure, sure.

But you know, the military has taken on a clearly bad lead.

And one thing, the Army in particular, has got them in a very fine spot.

They're all supposed to be go-teens, and they're supposed to be sadists, and here they are, at least as a decent guy, to make it possible for this country to maintain world leadership and to have a chance to have a peaceful world.

So whenever you're talking to the mass giants out there, you can say, well, I wish you'd tell them how strongly I support them.

The problem is that it isn't the most popular thing.

I do that.

They know that.

They understand that.

I'm on their side.

And we're fighting a bunch of bastards here.

We've got a lot of problems that aren't your problems.

They're really not my problems.

Some of the aircraft, the C-5 aircraft, we shouldn't even be buying anymore.

What is the C-5?

It's a Rocky transport.

What's the matter with that thing?

In that car?

Yeah, and it's one that we shouldn't even be buying with it.

We stopped buying it in 61.

And of course, this is what really Dave, behind Dave's old name, he'd like to cancel that whole damn contract.

But it has such great economic impact right now that it's something you just can't do.

But it's a lousy aircraft.

What they tried to do was they tried to get an aircraft that fulfilled so many different missions.

And then they kept cutting back on its weight without giving any consideration to the aerodynamics of the entire machine.

And this wouldn't happen under the system.

We need to prepare one day, because we go on this fly before you buy it, test before you buy it.

But the damn C5A, I could spend $300 million right on the budget right now to just buy this damn thing.

But a lot of people go down the drain, and we don't know what the problem is.

We should be doing it somehow.

It's not a good thing.

But it's a good thing.

Well, I wasn't in a bad situation.

Well, I don't even want to...

They do tell me that at least there's a locking site down on the bus line.

I got a report from the police saying it was a terrible thing that was going to happen.

That barman went over and told me I was reduced to an airlock.

He said, well, I'm going to be reassured.

You know, whatever the day, I'm there.

Well, that's kind of another problem.

You're not buying the bills, are you?

I told George today, I said, that's very good.

I'm going to come back.

When I came in, I was going to come back.

But...

It has other impacts.

It's all tied up in the science.

But we should never take responsibility for that.

I don't know.

On the truth of it all, I think there should be no speculation about it.

Yeah, do I have a lot of good considerations and not even thinking of destroying each one?

That's a possibility.

The reason that I think that we, I don't want to start to hammer this on the fact that we've come to a very, very, I don't want to be in a position that we haven't had any so-called quote, final announcement.

Actually, let me read the notes.

If you do now,

So we can tackle the problem in a different way.

I'd like you to think of it as a compact, you know, we plan to do it on the basis of, you know, if your pops come up and go, hey, but hey, right now it is, I mean, it's still at $5,000, $6,000, $7,000.

And when he says that, you know, he feels pretty comfortable talking to his wife's house.

But I don't know whether he's willing to talk to my wife about it or not.

I might have to be pulled over here.

And we're not ready for that.

You see, what that does, it shuts off your volunteers for six months.

Now, if you want to announce it, we can be there six months from now.

But if you announce it in advance, a whole recruitment program suffers out of that.

Because they'll say, well, it's better to be drafted and let's not be a volunteer.

But we want to get volunteers.

And it has an adverse effect upon the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, our whole recruitment program.

You announce it that way.

And so that's why we're rather strong than we ever have been in the Middle East.

We're as strong as that could be.

But we can do it.

But let's announce it when it's going to be done, not six months in advance.

It doesn't gain you anything politically, that kind of announcement.

Now, if you want it done, we can be in that position for six months, but we can also have to remember that as a

something that drives us now and drives our recruiting programs and everything else during this period.

And the benefit of it we can get is we can just announce now we're doing it rather than say six months from now.

Do I make myself clear?

You feel that you've done a lot of what we're ready to do?

Right.

Well, there's two separate programs.

One is on the side of your stuff that takes draft days and one

The second point, you put the old volunteers in there.

Sure.

But you can't get yourself all caught up in what it means to go out there and get the volunteers who aren't involved in the other issues.

Well, draftee issue is one.

But you pay the next two cases that the volunteers are in town.

But then you take any of them, and you send them anywhere you go.

You should just say, if you want to do it, say it, or I want to say it.

I decided my day no more in Grand Beach was going to Vietnam.

But not say it now.

I decided six months from now on Grand Beach.

Either that or you have to say it.

In other words, whatever the date is, you'd have to say I was on that time.

Well, I didn't know.

I read my report then.

Must be.

I don't want to get into that.

But I will make that a part of my trip report.

I'm working on that part.

I make a hard look at that draft sheet.

I'm not at all a peer.

Do you have any good trip reports?

I'm writing that part of it now.

Not what I would have written.

Well, I don't have any other issues that I think that I should discuss that covered pretty well in my report.

I did feel that it was important to talk to you a little bit about the German problem, because they are trying to do a job to run up 13% of their budget.

They're willing to make substantial contributions to our law system.

the manner in which the direct aid understanding is of some consequence to them because they don't want to do it like they're just supporting the direct aim of some United States budget.

And I think from what we've said in our position in the past, there is merit in their position.

And as long as it affects our offerings the same way, either way you do it, I don't see any reason to come up with that.

You know, as a matter of fact, he could do NATO.

We didn't have to do that, did we?

We need him.

We've got to get our candidates.

I get a lot of ideas, right?

Who?

Well, I'll tell you this, the president was behind the theater, you know, doing this and that, and from doing, you know, in fact, this is another, you know, he was the president of China, very easy to do, you know, he was with us all, and they called him, you know, John.

And then we had, there's a lot of people that we considered to be the same.

that we can't have because they won't sell all their stocks.

Really?

We're the only department.

You know, if you're going to the States, you don't have to do all those things.

Maybe we've got to pick somebody up and turn them over.

I talked to you about Tex.

He wants to do something.

Well, he could.

He can't do anything in defense.

He might do something.

I think we've got to accept something.

Well, no, he wouldn't have to worry about that.

No, not if not for Japan, not if it's in the States, he doesn't have to worry about it.

He'd like to do something.

Yeah.

Manny's got the old spray.

Oh, Manny's spray?

Yeah.

He's available.

He was a great friend of mine, years ago.

John Earl.

Wasn't he from Connecticut?

Yeah.

Remember, he did not ever hurt his deputy.

I know, but we had a problem with confirming it.

I remember very well, I tried to do something for him.

Sometimes he could do it.

That was because he was coming with the pencil.

There is one, Snyder is one of them.

He's a hell of a good man.

You know what I mean?

He's available, too.

How old is he?

How old is he available to help Rosie?

How old is his manager?

Oh, he's about 38.

I'm going to check.

I'll have plenty to run that one down.

There are a lot of people there.

Good people.

We'll walk down and step.

Let him take a picture as we walk down.

Did I use your manager?

Yes, sir, of course.

Ziggler, please.

I think that's a good meeting.

.

That probably had to do with the

So I'd be held against him as a defense.

Some company, I remember them.

He's in a left-coming company.

That's what I remember.

15 years ago.

When he held out, he had a problem.

I had to do it at that level or die.

But I think that what you like is getting strong.

The hard line is strong.

We didn't go to one, but we went to two.

And he can certainly afford to do it.

And he knows that you're fighting in the government?

He knows that very well.

He's a very good friend of John Earl's.

Johnny had all worked for him.

Johnny was his deputy.

Good.

That would be good.

He had a good relationship with him, I would say.

He's all right with that situation.

And it's been good.

It's nice right now.

Do you want him to go there and close it?

Well, I wanted him to go with Rosie.

Because I thought he was a good man.

Well, we really are on the end of the environment, and the issues are so complex that we've kind of had to vet them.

Today, people have only one entry, which is to cut by a certain percentage, not all, the military, so we get through that.

That helps the offense and weakens the defense, et cetera.

Well, the important thing is they look at it on the basis of a political project.

It should be a security project.

That's the problem I have.

I sent you over to work with Larry.

Did you see that?

I had Larry at the time.

He's out right now.

You know, he's got great appreciation for his opportunities over here.

He did work there.

Oh, okay.

Well, I didn't.

But he's...

He worked there.

He did.

He literally worked there.

But he has great respect and admiration for you and for all the state and his people there.

Because, you know, I tried to get in with him.

But, you know, he's a posse kid.

That's right, they are.

What?

They are.

That's right, they are.

Well, I'm sure he'll go over and answer a few questions.

He loves doing that.

He enjoys it.

Well, I think that this is three of us.

We don't get many pictures of them.

Hey, did you ever think they would get a picture of those two kids?

Yes, sir, I think they wanted to.

Unless they moved off the farm.

Yeah, they were kids.

We all have a... Oh, let me see the report.

I'm reading the report.

I've got a report for you on that guy from Star.

Oh, should I?

Yeah.

Great.

We haven't had any of them.

All right, I'll be dropping off.