Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 31 › Conversation 031-124
Nixon phone call with Colson on Congress and Taxation
Wednesday, October 18, 1972 · 6:16 PM–6:51 PM ET · White House Telephone ·8 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss strategies for managing public perception regarding the ongoing congressional session, the federal budget, and the threat of tax increases. The conversation highlights the administration's plan to use upcoming presidential vetoes and meetings with budget advisors—Caspar Weinberger, George Shultz, and John Ehrlichman—to emphasize fiscal responsibility. Additionally, they reflect on the political efficacy of the President's recent rhetoric regarding amnesty and the treatment of prisoners of war, noting strong positive feedback from labor leader George Meany.
- Congress
- Taxation
- Federal Budget
- Amnesty
- Prisoners of War
- Presidential Vetoes
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
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Oh, yes, sir.
I suppose so.
Well, what have you got to report before I talk to the leaders in a couple of minutes?
Oh, are they finally going to get out?
Well, the assholes are supposed to call me, but I've been waiting here for an hour.
God, that's ridiculous.
No, they were supposed to.
I was going to have a coffee at 4 o'clock.
I know you were.
And I knocked it off at 5.30 when they weren't here.
I just said, well, I just told them to say I knew they'd want to have a drink or something.
And they didn't deserve it anyway, the way they backed it.
They've been just as irresponsible as hell.
It's the most irresponsible Congress we've ever had.
It really is.
I know you don't want to go too hard on them, or at least John.
John said you didn't, but it isn't particularly my...
I don't think it's going to be particularly helpful to us.
I will if it will help, but I don't want to mobilize, frankly, Connolly's friends.
No, that's right.
The only thing I think they need to be done hard, Mr. President, is the...
We're not going to let him get away with increasing taxes.
I think that's the one damaging thing that may come out of this week is the override of the veto and the defeat of the spending ceiling that maybe now people are going to say, well, you see, the taxes will go up.
We're going to do as much as we can, but all we can do is have that meeting with Weinberger and Shorice and have Erlichman do the briefing because he'll do it better than they will.
Oh, yeah.
And so we're going to do that.
And Erlichman will.
We'll hit that Thursday night and Friday.
Well, you know, the best lines that you have taken, Mr. President, are those, you know, we're just going to crack down, we're going to toughen up, we're going to tighten up, we're just not going to repair the budget to the bone, but by God, we're not going to let those taxes go up, no matter how irresponsible the Congress is.
We can hit that, I think.
I think so.
I think it's so confusing, though, to the public, Congress screwing around and so forth.
It's not going to get through if we can.
We ought to be able to confuse it a little on our side.
Well, that's exactly the point on that.
And I just think, too, because we stood up for what is right, and they voted for a tax increase.
That's right.
Yet I don't want to say there's going to be a tax increase.
That's the other thing.
We'll say that we're going to continue the fight.
And when the Congress comes in, that'll be our top priority.
But again, we're not going to let them get away with it.
That's the line.
Stand for the American taxpayer.
The line that Perlickman, Weinberger, and Schultz will all take.
I mean, he called Schultz today to thank him for your saying that to the International Labor Group yesterday.
Did he get the right?
That was a damn good tribute to him, you know.
Oh, God.
And he wants to print that to your statement.
And thank me for what I said about the work they had done.
And he said, you know, John Kennedy made a speech very similar to that.
He said, I was thinking maybe we'd run two of them side by side.
But Kennedy said, he said it was beautiful.
He said, Kennedy made a speech, like he said, it was intense.
He made it abroad, Schultz said.
In any event, he said there was a Kennedy speech that he'd always treasured, that he thought this was very much like.
Like he then said, one of the greatest things he had seen was your appearance before the POWs.
Oh, did he?
Yeah, he said, tell the president, he said, do that more often, and he said, use that amnesty line.
He said, that amnesty line and that speech before the prisoners.
My God, he said, you'll turn those votes by the millions.
You know, we had an interesting thing on that, John Ehrlichman was—we were talking about that when we—yesterday when we met with John Connolly, you know, and the political people, and going over the domestic issues, and we raised the point about that thing.
And Ehrlichman's point, which of course is honestly held, is that, well, he thought the main usefulness of the thing
took the television time, that what I said was really, didn't, wasn't important.
And, of course, Holloman, of course, who built the fields very structurally.
Ehrlichman has a different view, you know, the domestic counsel side of this thing.
Not that he saw it, but his people are.
Holloman's focus is, for Christ's sakes, the best thing that happened was what he said about amnesty and what he said about we're not going to legally raise the POWs to the mercy of our enemies.
That's right.
But that amnesty line, believe me,
We just don't realize how powerful that is.
Our surrogates aren't using it enough.
Oh, yes, they are.
Oh, are they?
Oh, yes, sir.
They are.
Well, it depends on the surrogate.
But the way I used it on that thing, that really took that place apart.
And Manny really got the point of it.
Oh, he raised it with Schultz.
He said, I saw that.
That was tremendous.
He said, tell the president, please.
He said...
just keep hitting that amnesty issue do it more because he said you're going to turn votes by the millions with that he just of course that's a kind of an issue that george may but george man he's not any dumb guy either i mean it's not genetically he's one of the smartest politicians exactly he's not it's not that he's just i mean he's just at the working man's point of view i mean he's got a pretty sophisticated level of intelligence but he is saying that that's that's an issue that people understand they relate to let me tell you the monday night thing even though
It was so forth, but amnesty and not leaving the faith of the OWs to the of our enemies.
Those, that paints the difference between me and McGovern.
Yes.
Without ever mentioning McGovern.
You agree?
I do, Mr. President.
I think you start a week like this with that kind of an appearance, and we've got other good things going on this week, despite all the jackassery of the Congress.
Yeah.
And then you end the week with the Connolly speech.
Yeah.
It's just revenue sharing.
We're going to do that.
Everybody thinks that's great.
I think it's just fine, and it'll be a nice little picture show, but nobody gives a goddamn about it.
No, they really don't.
No, the folks don't.
You follow up, if you will, on the tax thing.
And as I said, we're on the same track because I've got Erlichman all set.
I'm going to take him and Schultz and Weinberger with me to get David prior to going to reference it.
And then we'll feed that story out.
I'm going to take up all the bills.
I'm going to veto bills all next week.
You know, we're going to veto the GW appropriation.
Good.
And when you see when we do that, Mr. President, each one has a chance to make the little beat.
Yeah, it's a chance to make our point about taxes.
And it's a very busy still handling the heavy responsibilities that you have here.
And it's a reason to not be out on the hustings.
I know that.
Right.
Well, I know about all that argument.
Yeah.
Well, in any event, these people are going to call me now.
Let's see.
Well, I hope we can get them out of town.
Well, they should, but miserable Congress.
I'm glad I don't have to have coffee with them.
You're not missing anything with that crowd that I heard that was coming?
Well, they're rather nice, but good in a personal sense, but good.
God, they haven't stood up for the country.
Yeah, they really haven't.
And most of that crowd are just out of touch.
That's right.
That's right.
O'Neill, Tip O'Neill, Mike Mansfield.
Well, it's a sad group.
It really is.
Wow.
NARA Description
On October 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 6:16 pm to 6:51 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 031-124 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 31-124
Date: October 18, 1972
Time: 6:16 pm - 6:51 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Charles W. Colson.
[See Conversation No. 369-13]
The President's schedule
-Forthcoming meeting with Congressional leaders
-Congress
-Adjournment
-Past session
-The President’s view
-Possible tax increase
-John B. Connally
-Meeting with Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger and George P. Shultz
-Budget
-John D. Ehrlichman's briefing
-Congress and the budget, taxes
-The President’s statements
-Weinberger, Shultz
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
(rev. Oct-06)
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 11m 27s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
*****************************************************************
The President’s meeting with foreign labor leaders, October 17, 1972
-George Meany's call to Shultz
-The President's speech
-Comparison to John F. Kennedy's speech
Amnesty issue
-The President's previous meeting with Prisoners of War [POWs] families
-Meany's comments
-The President's discussion with Ehrlichman
-Connally
-Significance of event
-Ehrlichman’s view compared with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman’s view
-Substance of the President's appearance
-Comments on amnesty and POWs
-Use by the President's surrogates
-Meany's comments
-Meany
-Colson’s view
-The President's meeting with POW families
-The President's ideas compared with George S. McGovern’s ideas
The President's schedule
-Congressional action
-Connally's broadcast
-Signing ceremony on revenue sharing
-The President’s view
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
(rev. Oct-06)
[Duration: 7m 52s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
*****************************************************************
Taxes and the budget
-The President’s forthcoming meeting with Ehrlichman, Weinberger and Shultz at
Camp David
-Revenue sharing signing ceremony
-Forthcoming presidential vetoes
-Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
appropriation
-Public perception of the President
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 8m ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
*****************************************************************
Congressional adjournment
-The President's cancelled meeting with leaders
-Thomas P. ("Tip") O'Neill, Jr., Michael J. Mansfield
-The President’s view
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal returnable]
(rev. Oct-06)
[Duration: 51s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
*****************************************************************Also recorded on October 18, 1972
- 031-122 5:43 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon talked on the telephone from 5:43 pm to 5:45 pm.
- 031-123 5:45 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:45 pm and 6:16 pm.
- 369-012 5:45 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:45 pm and 6:16 pm.
- 804-003 5:45 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:45 pm and 5:50 pm.
- 369-010 5:50 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:50 pm and 6:14 pm.
- 369-011 5:50 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Dr. W. Kenneth Riland met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:50 pm and 6:16 pm.
- 804-004 5:50 PM · 1 min — United States Secret Service agents and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:50 pm and 11:59 pm.
- 369-013 6:16 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:16 pm to 6:51 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 031-124, October 18, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/031-124 (accessed September 18, 2026).