Nixon, Haig & Cox on Henry Kissinger and Press Relations

3:17:23I think it might be working.
3:17:24Yeah.
3:17:24Oh, I don't know.
3:17:25I hope the water's going to be there.
3:17:26Well, they got a chance.
3:17:28The strike got off all right, didn't it, last night?
3:17:40It did?
3:17:40Yeah, also.
3:17:40You mean they had to make the strike and get back with her?
3:17:45Oh, I see.
3:17:51It looked pretty good.
3:17:53Did the first wave get something?
3:17:54No, we did some damage, I hope.
3:17:58Or were they, you know, a tiny part of the... Good.
3:18:11We really had a break on that, you know, we've been ready to go to this damn thing for two weeks now, and they just can't get along.
3:18:20Okay.
3:18:21Do you think that'll harass them a little while?
3:18:32That's good.
3:18:38Part of the problem is if there's time running out on us, you know, and we get beyond a certain point, if we get right into the China thing, well, we can't.
3:19:08Sure, I know.
3:19:10Well, the main thing is, as I say, I just know it's not my last opportunity, and I just, we want to weaken them as much as we can before we have to, you know, we'll be in a position that we're just going to be there getting out, and that's not going to be very good.
3:19:26It's not bad.
3:19:29Well, one of you guys will be, and you respect that.
3:19:39Right.
3:19:42Good, I know that.
3:19:43Okay, fine.
3:19:44Fine.
3:19:45Good morning, sir.
3:19:47I apologize for what happened.
3:19:56No, that's great.
3:19:57I just talked to Moore.
3:19:59He said that the damn weather turned bad again.
3:20:03Yes, sir.
3:20:04He said he had the...
3:20:08So they got a couple that made me feel well and kind of go on and on.
3:20:12He's certainly writing hard.
3:20:16I guess we just got a lousy writing letter.
3:20:19No way.
3:20:20They're very, very disparate because it's been solidly softened before Christmas.
3:20:32But we got the big one out there.
3:21:01You see, it's always my theory that now that it's green, this is massive.
3:21:05So the word massive, so they say it's extra massive if you put in 10 times as much.
3:21:09We could put in 50 times as much.
3:21:12We're going to get just as much glass.
3:21:15That's right.
3:21:15So this will have some effect even this much on it.
3:21:19Even this much.
3:21:20Oh, I think so.
3:21:20I know we're still there.
3:21:21That's right.
3:21:22I know we can still do it.
3:21:28Wow.
3:21:28I don't know.
3:21:29I think that thing is probably a blessing.
3:22:19But what do you think of them?
3:22:20They are beginning to look pretty fruitless, aren't they?
3:22:24They are, and they're also studying us to have a little grace in our relationships, and we've got that to improve, and we've got that to puzzle with, and we're paying attention to Aiden, all right.
3:22:43The whole answer on that is very simple, and something to say, well,
3:22:47when we appraise the situation, we've got to see what's in it, what's out there, what it is.
3:22:53In other words, agents cannot be given to a country who's engaged in aggression.
3:22:58We've got to see whether they are, and what this thing holds, and the information about that, we've got to wait and see.
3:23:05By the way, if you give them the aid, they lose them up, but they don't get impacted again.
3:23:11Exactly right.
3:23:12They have a real problem there, that thing, and we show that to support them.
3:23:16The Soviet Marxists in Bangladesh and the Maoists, and Ned Schomer, I think, were the best for it.
3:23:25And I could see in the world where they would welcome so kind to those kinds of things, but they were off their backs.
3:23:37They were the best for it.
3:23:39They're all part of Mecca.
3:23:42They have a Mecca lot.
3:23:43They don't have those.
3:23:44There was a mosque there.
3:23:46I got a message from Del, she's going to have to leave us all.
3:23:47Henry's case is complete, but we've got to work on a program.
3:23:49We've got to be very careful.
3:23:50All the time we've been through, we've been through two big events this year.
3:23:51Just this time, we've been through a long week.
3:23:53We've got to concentrate our energies on making those succeed.
3:24:17I think he should also stay out of the line of fire
3:24:39in terms of any, what we call, backgrounders talking to the press and taking telephone calls and raising all about the state and so forth and so on.
3:24:47They call it truth.
3:24:50The reason for that is that there will come a time when he's going to be very vetty with the public stuff.
3:24:55That is, after we have had these things succeeded.
3:24:58What I think is going to happen here is that he doesn't do that.
3:25:05It's got to build up within the bureaucracy and within the press.
3:25:11The group of people who run over there, they will be out to destroy him because they don't understand it.
3:25:18And I think that Al, at this point, Henry talks to the press.
3:25:21When he does talk to them, he's not helpful.
3:25:26I think that he's a little bit too emotional.
3:25:30And I think he, I guess, will be raised
3:25:34You know, they would be somewhat uncertain whether these tendencies would hold the shade of time.
3:25:39So you want that to happen, because that's what they've been going with for a long time.
3:25:44They believe.
3:25:45And they didn't believe the state department before they passed.
3:25:48Now, that's my view, quite your view, about the situation.
3:25:51Now, I also think that you need to do it in a way that comes with an emotional stability, that if you get involved in more fights, or if you just like to wear yourself out and crack up, you know, this is going to...
3:26:05But you see, there are little things like that he does on both trips.
3:26:14He couldn't resist going back to the press and talking to them.
3:26:24And in one case when he went back, he overstated something.
3:26:33And it isn't good.
3:26:34It would be fatal, but it was not good.
3:26:36It wasn't necessary, you know what I mean?
3:26:39Because he didn't play the right way.
3:26:41Now, they, of course, played very good with us, but nevertheless, and in the long run, it hurts too much.
3:26:48But he shouldn't do that.
3:26:49He should stay away from them.
3:26:50You see, the way we can get it so that it's equal, you know, is I'll find ways and we go to the little groups in Los Angeles
3:27:02San Francisco, like Cincinnati, he loves that.
3:27:04He loves going there, talking to people, but they do it on an off-the-record basis.
3:27:08That doesn't hurt us.
3:27:11And when he goes in, he does his background, and he's a white-off-the-press fellow.
3:27:16Anyway, the reason we give him this is because the background rule has now been broken.
3:27:21He can no longer use it.
3:27:23And I just think we should say that to everybody around here.
3:27:25We don't come to the press, only on the record.
3:27:27I want to stay with the press company.
3:27:29Don't you agree?
3:27:30You do it anyhow, you don't get a guy who's got some form of trauma because they're out there, especially in Washington Post, right?
3:27:39So that whole thing is not a purge for him.
3:27:43That's all right.
3:27:43Sure.
3:27:43So therefore, don't let them have the opportunity to talk to you about this sort of thing.
3:27:48You can't talk to him about this.
3:27:50I think he knows that he may have made a terrible mistake in the back of his mind.
3:27:57Yeah.
3:27:59Well, I mean, of course, it's cool, but part of the response to this is the realization that the state doesn't wait for the amount of traffic.
3:28:10Well, I think we believe in perfection.
3:28:11I mean, there's many things that we're very close to it.
3:28:16But nobody is perfect.
3:28:18We all make mistakes, but the thing is tonight, we can't look back.
3:28:22Don't feel yourself worrying about it.
3:28:25But the point is, what you do is don't make that mistake again.
3:28:27And that's what Henry's got to realize, that his mistake is made by overexplosion.
3:28:31He's overexploded this time.
3:28:33I just said he shouldn't.
3:28:36We'll kill them in the city-state, we'll do this and that, but I'd rather be having more press conferences myself over these during the next year or whatever year.
3:28:47I'll be there.
3:28:48And I can knock them out with one little comma.
3:28:49You know what I mean?
3:28:51I'll kill them when they get out alive.
3:28:52And they know it.
3:28:53They know what to see.
3:28:54So we've got that done.
3:28:57We've got the youth now.
3:28:59And we've just got to sit down, tend to the city,
3:29:05do as well as he can working in the state, don't get these childish arguments with Sullivan and Rogers, and that's just one thing.
3:29:15It's a good thing, aren't you?
3:29:20But be a little bit of both.
3:29:21Don't you think so?
3:29:22If you have a lot of thoughts on how to handle it, I feel in my...
3:29:25I think the way you've handled this is that...
3:29:27I think I've been thinking, and I just put Paul on charge of...
3:29:32We can do it on the ground, but the background, you know, rules and rules are not going to totally compromise the way folks, therefore we can go on with the background, therefore we can actually do something different.
3:29:55We can use, you know, and another thing,
3:30:00I think Scali, he used, I mean, they don't know what he was saying, because he doesn't do the judgment as good, and also, I think, he's suspicious of him.
3:30:07Basically, Scali is the boy who loves Scali's problems, and if we, you know, if we don't tell him anything, he'd actually read all this bullshit, and he'd make all that kind of drama.
3:30:21I mean, feel him.
3:30:23I don't know if that's the emotion, you know, or if it's the intensity.
3:30:30And secondly, I think he is supposed to be a secretary.
3:30:38He's not totally on Henry's way, but that's not the point for us.
3:30:45But Ziegler is.
3:30:47The main thing is let's get Henry out for the press conference now.
3:30:51He's got to keep talking to columnists and the rest.
3:30:57Goddamn, it means hot property.
3:30:59And from now on, just remember, the China trip will be so much bigger.
3:31:03And all of a sudden, they said, Christ, forget this bullshit.
3:31:05It doesn't bother me.
3:31:07I mean, I'm worried about things like that.
3:31:10What we did this, what we did that.
3:31:14In one month, we forgot.
3:31:16In one month, it's already there.
3:31:18Can you see much of it?
3:31:20I mean, I can read it.
3:31:20I'm still concerned about Roger's press conference today.
3:31:23Well, to be perfectly frank with you, I felt my faith in my sanity was up.
3:31:28I read the total story every time.
3:31:29Not even the worship portion.
3:31:32The part that they emphasize, what we want to emphasize, you know, that Roger took a hard line on for Vietnam.
3:31:38So he said something about, well, it's a campaign memorandum, which is not fighting it.
3:31:43So it is.
3:31:44It should have said it.
3:31:45But you know what I mean?
3:31:47The fight is that...
3:31:50that Henry couldn't even see there.
3:31:52Judgment was so warm that he and Roger would, whatever we would say, it was good to have Roger about taking a hard line for once about being honorable than me.
3:32:06What'd they say?
3:32:15I think actually timing right now is very good.
3:32:32Terry is going to be in this world report.
3:32:34Yes, and that's very important, and that's historically.
3:32:37There's the place to make his points.
3:32:38I'm going to make it in that, on the world report.
3:32:43And on that, I think this time when he has the world report, he should not have a background.
3:32:49I don't think he should.
3:32:50Let it speak for itself.
3:32:52The backgrounder will only depend.
3:32:53He'll take some shit-ass thing that he'll say in the background, a little thing.
3:32:58That'll be the lead.
3:32:59Let the report speak for itself, Lawrence.
3:33:00Don't you think so?
3:33:02Henry loves the background.
3:33:03He's very good at them.
3:33:05But he must not do it now.
3:33:07Let the world report go.
3:33:08And they don't need a good report this year.
3:33:11Frankly, it's a, it's a, we have, we, you know, we don't win them all.
3:33:16But our report policy records, we've got to have good records.
3:33:18It's, it's, we've got people who are a little bit dazzled with some of this stuff.
3:33:24You know, I can't agree with you.
3:33:25I can't agree with you.
3:33:29India, India, Pakistan, we all know, they can say what they want, they weren't trying to knock off West Pakistan.
3:33:35No.
3:33:35And if we knock off, we've done a little of things that we didn't.
3:33:45Right?
3:33:46West Pakistan today was militarily destroyed.
3:33:49Correct?
3:33:49Right.
3:33:50And where would we be then?
3:33:53At least we kept our credibility with the Chinese.
3:33:58Right.
3:33:59I don't, I think maybe it was necessary for the Russians.
3:34:02Just what do you think about that?
3:34:07They've got their understanding of it here in our country.
3:34:11They can't track it.
3:34:13You know, I think it was such a memory now.
3:34:18You be close to him.
3:34:20You be close to Rob.
3:34:21And remember, I did tell him when to keep him out.
3:34:24And you talk to Rob.
3:34:25You see how you get along.
3:34:27You might have a little talk with him.
3:34:29And just say, for Christ's sake.
3:34:34That's not, I mean, it's quite, you know, it's nice, of course, it's bad with Henry, but Henry, I must say, I second he because, I mean, not only would Roger be everybody else, but he'd treat people with some terrible contempt, and it's just terrible, you know.
3:34:48Well, the problem is that it's a different realm of sophistication, or it's a problem, you know, so you think Roger's a superficial, he also thinks he's disloyal.
3:34:59He is superficial, but he's not disloyal.
3:35:01Yeah.
3:35:02The rivalry wants to win, and they're a bit jealous, and they've got a little bit of vanity.
3:35:07But what Hendrick here called it, played the game a little bigger.
3:35:12It's going to come out of this very, very big.
3:35:17But what he's going to do otherwise, he's going to get a whole group of press people and bureaucrats ganging up against him, and they'll chop him to pieces.
3:35:25I don't respect that.
3:35:28Don't let them do it right now.
3:35:29Drop out of the line of fire.
3:35:33Don't go back in the background.
3:35:34Don't tell them anything.
3:35:36Let the record keep for itself.
3:35:39You know, these two, let's face it, Al, and on the other side of the pond, these meetings, these many summits that we've had, have been enormously successful already.
3:35:49The Britishman did get into a good play, but I got a hell of a good play in England.
3:35:54I didn't put that play.
3:35:55He didn't play it.
3:35:56I listened to him.
3:35:58And they played it in a so ambivalent way that he put it up to kind of press the new relationship.
3:36:05But it was an historic game in that case.
3:36:08And I think the most important thing that he's having is that he's so young.
3:36:18Because they could see him unraveling.
3:36:23to get all this pulled together.
3:36:25We got our friends.
3:36:27That's essential.
3:36:29And the economic thing, I mean, it's going to disturb everyone.
3:36:34So we have to get a lot of comfort from what they're trying.
3:36:39They were gloating a little, and now the damn thing has turned around 100%.
3:36:42And it's good.
3:36:43It's good.
3:36:45It's good.
3:36:46The market's up.
3:36:47Everybody's feeling pretty good.
3:36:50We've got to remember now,
3:36:52Henry, this shows Henry at his best, Henry played a critical, resplendent role in making the deal with Pompidou.
3:37:02The reason that he had to make it, normally I would have sent Rogers over to do that deal, or Pompidou.
3:37:07I could have sent Pompidou because Pompidou would have had to insist.
3:37:14I couldn't send Rogers because then Schumacher had to go.
3:37:19So Henry had to do it.
3:37:21And he did it brilliantly.
3:37:23So I think that's the achievement there, you know, the story, really, the world.
3:37:38You can try to keep him, but being so down-to-earth and staffed, you know the other thing.
3:37:44We don't want a stacker to go walking out of here and throw a horse along.
3:37:51I think getting that security officer in there is good.
3:37:54I just called more, got to report on this.
3:37:57I didn't even mention this other affair.
3:38:03But you should have a little talk with Warren.
3:38:06if you will, work together, we're on the same team.
3:38:13I think it's important that you engage with him.
3:38:16You agreed with him, actually, when you called me yesterday, and you mentioned this.
3:38:21Well, he had a good relationship, and he thinks maybe now he's blown it.
3:38:25He hasn't.
3:38:26He hasn't.
3:38:26My view on this is that the more of a stand-up guy, and we should try to get him to hand over the account to the final law,
3:38:37I didn't know what it was.
3:39:02I think we're doing quite well.
3:39:07I think the South is good to me.
3:39:20They ought to be ready to bomb us.
3:39:24Couldn't they have some intensity?
3:39:31probes into the monarchy of non-Saxons, isn't it?
3:39:35Well, I should certainly go over there and go out and see some of the folks there and make sure.
3:39:45Shouldn't they?
3:39:46Yes.
3:39:46They should just drop across there and make a decision.
3:39:49Henry, have you had any other views on it?
3:39:52Because that's the next week.
3:39:53We've got to work this out, Al.
3:39:55We can't let this... We can't have Henry's entrance
3:39:58This next year, we heard there's going to be a bigger battle fighting, a bigger battle than we thought we were going to end.
3:40:07We're going to spend a lot of time fighting.
3:40:11The big real concern right now is the Soviets.
3:40:14So, we're going to push through that.
3:40:16They themselves believe that we were falling far with Europe.
3:40:19Yeah.
3:40:19Well, we rectified that.
3:40:20We rectified it.
3:40:23He's a wonderful guy, totally for us.
3:40:38They didn't hurt us, frankly.
3:41:04In your European church, for example, I think that a major impact on the recent ban on elections is the shutdown of the Christmas Eve.
3:41:11You've had to do it?
3:41:12I really do.
3:41:13And now, for the first time, they've put it in its present.
3:41:17I was supported by the Christian family, and I'm sitting on it.
3:41:20So that's a key to that wire, isn't it?
3:41:23Yes.
3:41:23And I also felt both the...
3:41:27He called me to tell me that he was going to talk to me.
3:41:33And I told him to extend your personal best wishes, although you were sending a formal communication as well.
3:41:47Good.
3:41:48I might have.
3:41:49He likes that.
3:41:51Yes, sir.
3:41:52But this guy is...
3:41:54Now, one thing that's very important that I don't want to bother you with this stuff, but I want you working with the city, in this instance, give them the job, prepare a few of the publish points for the inspection, and that's it.
3:42:15We're doing an item of package second law.
3:42:16Second law, good.
3:42:17When do you have that for?
3:42:19We have it now, essentially, sir.
3:42:20We've covered some banking, what that business is about,
3:42:23I wonder if she's there or if she's going to be in the Moscow visit.
3:42:25Right.
3:42:25Sorry about that.
3:42:27She's going to see, apparently, the ambassadors out there.
3:42:29I don't know if they're going to ask for my school.
3:42:30I'm a little wondering why she's going to talk to them.
3:42:38I don't know what her choice is.
3:42:40She's going to pay respect.
3:42:43But they'll be interested in her comments.
3:42:46So give her a few little, just like you do in talking points to the doctor.
3:42:51Now, she should carry a letter to each pregnant.
3:42:53We have the letters in our own letters that we put together.
3:42:58Well, the letters I had better see, because I would like to add some personal notes on each one of them, see?

Nixon, Haig & Cox on Henry Kissinger and Press Relations

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Also recorded on December 26, 1971

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