Nixon, Colson & Haldeman on PRC trip and unemployment

1:41:41That's good.
1:41:47Well, now don't, uh, don't crush yourself, because there are other things to do.
1:41:56And we can play.
1:41:58Still got a fever?
1:42:03Well,
1:42:04Well, just nurse it off, believe me, because when you've got one, you've got to put it very close to the vest.
1:42:13Yeah, yeah, right, right, right.
1:42:14Sure, sure.
1:42:14Okay, that's good.
1:42:16Well, we won't bother you there.
1:42:19No, no, I'm going to leave today.
1:42:20We're going to have a good day.
1:42:23All right.
1:42:35Sure, sure, sure.
1:42:37Yeah.
1:42:38Yeah, not being too concerned about what happens at the moment before and during the year.
1:42:48I was thinking, too, that there's a lot going on here.
1:42:51I actually think that's pretty good.
1:42:54About what I was expecting, I'm pretty good at this time.
1:42:58I think I might be able to get through, you know.
1:43:01Although, we did have very positive stuff.
1:43:05Unfortunately, we haven't had .
1:43:14That's one of those things.
1:43:22And the fact that it didn't change shows you the .
1:43:31I have a hell of a memorandum.
1:43:32I think there's a lot in that.
1:43:34I'm not sure.
1:43:35I mean, it may be that he's seen all of our weaknesses and none of their weaknesses, but that's inevitable.
1:43:47Yeah, but I mean, and he should, but what I meant is that they have some problems too.
1:43:52But on the other hand, his point that we have really done had a lot of bombshells is still running, running two to three points better than we were before.
1:44:01It's a pretty good point, you know.
1:44:11That was a rough time.
1:44:12That's what we had our lowest point.
1:44:16Then we came back up in Gallup and stayed there ever since.
1:44:33Of course, we've had some, too.
1:44:51Probably done better than he deserved.
1:44:52I don't know what we get.
1:44:53Oh, I don't see it.
1:44:59No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
1:45:24Well, I can't get him.
1:45:28I can't get him, so that's important as well.
1:45:30He can have two others.
1:45:37He doesn't want to.
1:45:39I don't think he could see, for example, if that's how you would see him.
1:45:46Well, if you get back to your, back to your, get rid of your coat and your collar, take off ten minutes.
1:45:53Okay.
1:45:54Yeah.
1:45:55No, really, really don't, because we're, I'm gonna be honest with you, it's not the way everybody's concerned.
1:46:03Okay.
1:46:03Most of the stuff is blue.
1:46:04That's practically ready to die.
1:46:06I'm looking to see whether I've got other dates here.
1:46:09When do we leave for China?
1:46:10On the 16th?
1:46:11Huh?
1:46:12The 16th.
1:46:13Wouldn't it be well to have a bipartisan movement, frankly?
1:46:19Well, better still, if we leave on the 16th, why not the morning we leave?
1:46:23We don't leave in the morning, do we?
1:46:28He doesn't know why.
1:46:33He says, we ain't coming out of this by nine hours blind.
1:46:37But we need six hours, so it's only three hours on the clock.
1:46:43I'd like to have a five-hour meeting on the 16th before we leave, and I want that to be only two by five.
1:46:49Now, I want you to keep
1:46:53If you can get your leaders thing open, Bob.
1:46:57Keep open.
1:47:00Let's not do the Republicans again.
1:47:04My view is to do the cabinet on the 20th, right?
1:47:10Let's take a look here.
1:47:12On Romney, if you would, I just think you'll have to tell her that it's just no good.
1:47:17I'm sorry, brother, that I, you know, whatever I said to Romney, I thought he meant before we sent our housing.
1:47:24That's what he said.
1:47:25There's a housing message or something.
1:47:27I thought you'd see it.
1:47:30Or you heard the thing, I had to see it.
1:47:34Yeah.
1:47:34Well, he says it's not because he thinks so.
1:47:36That is what we're out of here for.
1:47:37What you know.
1:47:38Well, what you know.
1:47:40He's going to listen to what you say.
1:47:42Yeah.
1:47:43He's going to do his best and say, well, this is great.
1:47:45We'll hold a housing message if you don't let us.
1:47:46How's that?
1:47:47You think that'll work or not?
1:47:50Tell me, because if I've got to come back, then I've got to set that thing aside.
1:47:54You know what I mean?
1:47:55Let me ask John.
1:47:56Huh?
1:47:56Let me ask John.
1:47:58Yeah.
1:47:58It's very important for you to keep those days clear.
1:48:02Maybe take an hour off a day, Bob, to listen to Rodney.
1:48:05It's not really worth doing.
1:48:07What would be... You would say if a candidate is, I've got to come back probably Sunday night and start working here.
1:48:16You'd have to stay up there and work Monday.
1:48:19Well, I might.
1:48:19I might stay up there and work Monday, too.
1:48:21Yes, that's correct.
1:48:21Monday's safer.
1:48:24Right.
1:48:24I'm back here.
1:48:27Look, John has got to do his best to get the rock he didn't put off, and something's coming up with the, uh... Got the plane.
1:48:46I see him, too.
1:48:50What the hell do you have on for the 13 o'clock?
1:48:55But I just wanted to let them know, I know we could, I don't want to fill the hole in it.
1:49:07I see Larry Tender.
1:49:14I told him to come to Tender.
1:49:19Alright.
1:49:20Uh, Vietnam 11.
1:49:21Yeah.
1:49:21Now that'll only take you a couple minutes.
1:49:24That's no problem.
1:49:25Uh, the McElroy thing is set for 11.30.
1:49:30Are we good?
1:49:30She in the square at the end?
1:49:3212.
1:49:32I think it's in 12.15.
1:49:38Uh...
1:49:38I can move a lot of people right after the Vietnam announcement.
1:49:45We're going to go to 11.
1:49:52We've got macro at 11.30.
1:49:58This stuff is not...
1:50:07in a ready bridge, you know.
1:50:09Or what you do, rock me over leather.
1:50:11Squeeze in between the Vietnam and I'm turning the metal over.
1:50:15You want to do that.
1:50:18That's the end of it.
1:50:20That's the end of it.
1:50:21There you go.
1:50:23First of all, I just kept a goddamn thing down.
1:50:27I was going to ask what was happening.
1:50:30I kept rocking it because it's
1:50:33What does he want to talk about?
1:50:35I don't know.
1:50:36Romney at 10.
1:50:39The problem is, Carlton doesn't want you to see Romney on Thursday.
1:50:46He doesn't want you to see him go after him.
1:50:53Is that what he said last night?
1:50:55Alright, then you've got... Is that what they tell her?
1:50:57The only time you can't see answers, you don't do it.
1:50:59Yeah.
1:51:01and just see if you can work it out, will you?
1:51:03No.
1:51:04Then I cleared from there on.
1:51:05Why don't you see Robin before the domestic console and say, do you want me to review this with the domestic console?
1:51:13And I said, probably.
1:51:17All right.
1:51:17All right.
1:51:17All right.
1:51:1830 Laird, 11 o'clock Vietnam, 11.30 McElroy, 12 o'clock Sheehan, 12.15 what?
1:51:24Robin.
1:51:30What?
1:51:31You'd better put in eggs over 10.
1:51:39Okay.
1:51:39I think that's the time period to do eggs, okay?
1:51:52Have eggs go over 11.
1:51:5411, brownie and 10, yeah.
1:52:03I can't really expect Ronald to be 20 minutes off.
1:52:06You know, I just can't do it.
1:52:08You feel very hurt when you see, like, golden times, you know, how much you've done.
1:52:16You say that they beat me at 11.
1:52:20Right.
1:52:20Yeah, we do the anonymous.
1:52:25That knocks it all off until, John, that's the only time I can see it.
1:52:30It would have passed.
1:52:35You've got a cabinet and the leaders on the 25th, the Republican leaders.
1:52:40Correct.
1:52:41All right.
1:52:46All right.
1:52:46Now hold the 26th and 27th for me.
1:52:47I don't want anything scheduled now.
1:52:49I really mean that.
1:52:50I don't want a goddamn nickel thing.
1:52:53Right.
1:52:54All right.
1:52:55And Bartzell on the 28th, we do have Wallace, right?
1:53:02Right.
1:53:03All right.
1:53:07He was the first who got the governor's seat.
1:53:15Yep.
1:53:15It was the 25th for Colombo, but if he can't do it the 25th, I can't do it another day.
1:53:19Who else did we put on the...
1:53:25Paragraph this day.
1:53:27Paragraph this day.
1:53:28Well, nothing.
1:53:30We just scratched the floor.
1:53:35We probably can go for dinner that night.
1:53:36If we have things we have to schedule, that's the day we can do it.
1:53:45If we can avoid them, we'll avoid them each and every day.
1:53:54This is the whole of the night in the penthouse.
1:53:58Just to scratch my mouth.
1:54:05One, two, three, four, five...
1:54:17I hope, because let me say that when I say to put things in, I really don't mean cats and dogs now.
1:54:23I know.
1:54:24Because I really got to study.
1:54:26I've got to be over here, and I just want to know what I'm going to do, let's see.
1:54:30So where there's, like, well, things that I don't want to do, like Arthur Bunning swearing in, and Sheehan swearing in, and meeting the...
1:54:38the health industries group and so forth and so on, you know, they're just things that are not going to contribute to our great goal.
1:54:48Correct.
1:54:48We turn all that on now.
1:54:51Totally.
1:54:52Only go with the subject.
1:54:54Absolutely.
1:54:54If you have to see Laird about something, if I have to see Laird or Rogers or any general, well, I'll have to see him.
1:55:03And of course, you've got the common opinion.
1:55:12I'll see him.
1:55:14I'm as bad as anybody else.
1:55:18Some bitches get to me, but I just want you to protect me totally on this.
1:55:23And you've got to cover the domestic council and Henry and all the rest of it.
1:55:26There just isn't time to do a damn thing.
1:55:29I'll use telephone, and I'll have a telephone with you guys.
1:55:33But you see, on the 13th, we're shooting that day, but that's all right.
1:55:39and reissue it in a couple of hours.
1:55:42You should in the morning completely, but you'll be cleared by 1 o'clock.
1:55:48That's right.
1:55:48It's a very good idea.
1:55:49And I'll go up there and finish up one probably within the evening.
1:55:58You'd better off to stay up there if you can.
1:56:01I agree to 17th and come down in the morning to 18th or something.
1:56:07Yeah, I agree.
1:56:08But you won't have the TV that night till 9 o'clock.
1:56:09So you've got to... You know, we can peddle here.
1:56:19Hey, now.
1:56:21Come on.
1:56:21Are we going to do a bipartisan leader's foreign policy briefing before the TV that we're having?
1:56:31Yeah.
1:56:31Yeah, I mean, you know, at 8 o'clock.
1:56:33No, no, no.
1:56:33We do it at 7 o'clock.
1:56:56What they want to do is give us the hope.
1:56:59The thing dies, it opens.
1:57:03They don't think you have to breathe, but you probably have to open the meeting.
1:57:09If you don't do it, you can open the meeting and walk out as strong as you can.
1:57:17The reason for doing it is simply to influence the thing of
1:57:24It complains and it sets it up so we've got a...
1:57:28It has a great hand.
1:57:30It sets up the opposition so they raise it back to you.
1:57:33They won't know what you're saying, you won't help them.
1:57:38In other words, you're giving the opus.
1:57:41The opus, but not the speech.
1:57:43You've got to let them test you.
1:57:47Now, it's not easy to have a bipartisan view.
1:58:01Let's go.
1:58:02Let's go.
1:58:27I might not even come, you know what I mean?
1:58:29I just might say I don't want to come.
1:58:33You know, if I get boxed in, and you've got to be, frankly, I know it's awful hard, but you've got to be there.
1:58:40And then you can go in the last minute if you want to.
1:58:42The purpose is to, for example, deliver a copy to them.
1:58:48I forgot about that.
1:58:55Jesus Christ, can't we do that when we come back to China?
1:58:58We're going to be too late.
1:59:00We're going to be leaving on the weekend.
1:59:03I'm having for dinner at 4 or 5.
1:59:04I'm just having over in the bay.
1:59:09Don't you think that's all right?
1:59:10I don't have to go to a party or go packing on the boat.
1:59:15I don't know if I think so yet.
1:59:17Well, if not, that's perfectly all right.
1:59:21I mean, just say I'd like for him to come over and we'll sit around and talk, but I just feel that I've got to now remember that I've got one hell of a problem, and I just can't set up another event, Father.
1:59:31It can't be done.
1:59:31Father, I don't understand.
1:59:32I mean, he'll appreciate the personal manner where we can sit and we can talk a little about old times and tell him.
1:59:38You know, if you'd like to have to bring Betty down for a weekend as well.
1:59:43Betty and the kids.
1:59:44Yep.
1:59:47That's a good idea to bring that down here.
1:59:50Bring it steady and get it down for a weekend in Florida on, say, the 21st, 22nd, and 30th.
1:59:57And I'll have them all over to remove you or something.
2:00:06That's given vacation time.
2:00:07The weekend of the 5th, 6th, and 7th.
2:00:08The weekend of the 12th, 11th, 12th, and 13th.
2:00:10I've got the study down right after.
2:00:13Yeah.
2:00:13Okay.
2:00:19I'll just have Don figure it out.
2:00:21You'll have to handle this with the world as a restaurant.
2:00:23They'll all want you to come to the party.
2:00:26I'm just not going to do it.
2:00:27I don't think I should go to the goddamn party.
2:00:30I agree.
2:00:31That's completely...
2:00:32I don't think you should ever go to the party.
2:00:36I'll just say that I would advise them to make sure you can pull the plug on it now.
2:00:39I'm going to invite the users and their children to the party.
2:00:42We'll give them the email.
2:00:46Yeah.
2:00:46Yeah.
2:00:47Yeah.
2:00:47Yeah.
2:00:47Yeah.
2:00:48Yeah.
2:00:48Yeah.
2:01:07You see, that's hard.
2:01:09It's not gonna make a bigger thing for him.
2:01:12Dom's gonna have a, maybe that's gonna give him a chance to talk to the others.
2:01:18He's gonna have a chance to talk.
2:01:36I got everything.
2:01:38Out of the way, out of the way.
2:01:39On the other one, the cabinet leader, I want to check this.
2:01:43He said, you know, I asked for us to train some of those people.
2:01:45If we didn't train, we should have the rest of the agency heads in the executive office.
2:01:53In the executive office, yes.
2:01:55That would mean Helms, Stein, Ches.
2:02:02That's not bad.
2:02:03Dave Lincoln.
2:02:05Yeah.
2:02:05Dr. David.
2:02:06Yeah.
2:02:06Bill Eberle.
2:02:08Oh.
2:02:11By the way, he got a 12, 11, 12, 35.
2:02:13He got the study done.
2:02:15Yeah.
2:02:17Yeah.
2:02:18Okay.
2:02:22Well, I'll just have Don figure it out.
2:02:23You'll have to handle this with the rulers and the rest of them.
2:02:26They'll all want me to come to their party.
2:02:28I guess if I'm going to do it, I don't think I should go to the goddamn party.
2:02:33I agree.
2:02:34That's completely...
2:02:35I don't think you should ever go to their party.
2:02:40I'll just say that I would advise them to make sure you can pull the plug on it now.
2:02:43I'm going to invite the users and their children to the party over the weekend.
2:02:46We'll give them the email.
2:02:49We'll get them next to that house.
2:02:51We'll get them the Bebe house.
2:02:52We'll put it in Mars.
2:02:54It's available.
2:02:56We'll write her sex and give her a little vacation before they leave.
2:03:11You see, that's hard.
2:03:12It's not gonna make a bigger thing for him.
2:03:15Dom's gonna have a, I mean, he doesn't get the chance to talk to the others.
2:03:20He doesn't get the chance to talk.
2:03:28I got everything.
2:03:42Out of the way.
2:03:42On the other one, Kevin there, I want to check this.
2:03:44He said, you know, ask Russ Crane and some of those people.
2:03:49If we do Crane, we should have the rest of the agency heads in the executive office.
2:03:57In the executive office, yes.
2:04:01That would mean Helms, Stein, Ches.
2:04:07That's not bad.
2:04:09Dave Lincoln, Dr. David, Phil Eberle.
2:04:12That makes it a pretty
2:04:20No, I want the dinner big.
2:04:22Okay.
2:04:23I want the dinner big, and I want it with round tables.
2:04:25I want the administration family.
2:04:27I want the top administration people in the White House there too.
2:04:30With that whole crowd.
2:04:31Yeah.
2:04:32And I want the top, I want the assistants to the president.
2:04:35We should have Rosewood.
2:04:38Oh, Christ.
2:04:38I want to have Rosewood.
2:04:39I have Leonard Garment.
2:04:41Well, I want people.
2:04:43Right.
2:04:44Garment, Klein, Price.
2:04:48We ought to have done Houston.
2:04:50That gives them a normal occasion to try and bring back Houston.
2:05:01And I didn't mention that he's leaving too.
2:05:04Right.
2:05:04That's good.
2:05:05What about General Hershey?
2:05:06You can go to 80 on that.
2:05:08Make it a dinner of 80 people, wherever.
2:05:10That'll bring it over 80.
2:05:11That'll bring it over 80.
2:05:12You can go no more than 100.
2:05:14I don't want it to be horribly crowded.
2:05:16It'll be about 97.
2:05:19Now, what about Connie Stewart?
2:05:22Sure.
2:05:23Absolutely.
2:05:24Okay.
2:05:26That's good.
2:05:26That will cover the whole White House family.
2:05:32Would you have Scalia?
2:05:36You wouldn't normally, would you not?
2:05:44I think you have to.
2:05:47No, I haven't.
2:05:48The scalp is under, well, you don't give, you know, you don't give close to much, you know, socially, you know, you don't give a goddamn thing.
2:05:55And I think it might be a good idea, you know.
2:05:57Sure.
2:06:02Uh, you added John Brown.
2:06:04John or Bob Brown, uh, has to be there.
2:06:05Also, John Whitaker should be there, because he's the former cabinet secretary.
2:06:11Sure.
2:06:11The other guys who've been listening constantly are John Whitaker and Oliver Cajon.
2:06:15Whitaker's part of the mega-perception of Bob, right?
2:06:20That fits fine.
2:06:21And that's it.
2:06:22Now that the way it was, I don't want you to interfere with it.
2:06:25I don't want you to do a thing with it.
2:06:27Well, she sent me the list over and asked if something had to be deleted.
2:06:30We had to put that in the book.
2:06:32She had helped me work on deletions, so I went back and suggested deletions.
2:06:36Well, good.
2:06:37But I meant, don't push people for that damn tenner.
2:06:40Because it's just...
2:06:42We know that we're doing it for the Wallaces.
2:06:44They're putting some people in there that are wasting time for us.
2:06:49They don't do any harm.
2:06:50It's one of these beautiful Wallaces.
2:06:53I've forgotten where a couple of them are.
2:06:56Some head of a hospital in New York.
2:07:01Well, that's part of the deal.
2:07:02They're very close friends.
2:07:03And I think if she, whatever she, works on with cold fluids, I think it's fine.
2:07:08That's it.
2:07:08Let's not get all screwed up, so I don't have to be having questions.
2:07:16Now, it appears that we can't get Fred White.
2:07:18Is that what you'd like to do?
2:07:21Well, let's see whether he likes it.
2:07:27All right.
2:07:27Fred White, songs through the 50 years.
2:07:33I think, I think that's true.
2:07:35It turns out that I worked at the Kennedy Center that week.
2:07:42Well, that's true.
2:07:43Well, maybe.
2:07:45Yeah.
2:07:45Okay, that takes care of that.
2:07:48Now, on the other question, Dr. Ehrlichman, and the chair general again, I guess not Dr. Ehrlichman, Dr. Ehrlichman about the 18th movement.
2:07:58John Fields of the 18th Children's.
2:08:02Not right away.
2:08:03As soon as possible.
2:08:04Yeah, well, I thought two weeks.
2:08:06Is that all right?
2:08:06Yeah.
2:08:07I just don't want to make the announcement.
2:08:09John hasn't been concerned.
2:08:10Now, John does think we still have a problem on the findings confirmation.
2:08:14He disagrees with Mitchell.
2:08:18He thinks we need to get a count on it and find out.
2:08:21But his point is, even if we get it confirmed, we're going to have a bloody fight.
2:08:26Because...
2:08:27So what does John suggest?
2:08:29Well, John has two suggestions.
2:08:32One is to try the acting ADP thing just for a long period of time.
2:08:35His other suggestion, which he thinks you can get away with it, and it seems to me it's over the list, but maybe it's not, is to move Mitchell over full-time to run the campaign to leave on the secondary desk.
2:08:51You know, just had to do it during a general running campaign.
2:08:54He thinks that's a lesser evil than the Clunkeys, in a sense, because they will use the Clunkeys' nomination as a cases boy for repression and wiretapping and all that kind of stuff.
2:09:06Now, that isn't necessarily all bad, because the people who will be kicking him are the bad guys.
2:09:17You might as well get us back in the... the regression business and all that stuff.
2:09:26I know.
2:09:26No judgment on confirmations and things.
2:09:29They're not the best, you know, whatever that kind of thing is.
2:09:32Well, John thinks we should have a very careful analysis.
2:09:39I would agree with that.
2:09:40I'd rather have Clanky sleep, too.
2:09:43He would be so valuable in the campaign.
2:09:45He's the man Mitchell needs.
2:09:49hell of a man and the greater could help because he could do an awful lot of it over there somebody else
2:10:17God, I wish you could wish Mitchell... Well, would you, you and John, have a good talk with Mitchell and see how stubborn he is on flying missions?
2:10:27Let's go.
2:10:27I don't know what the hell we can do there, but I'm going to jump in a little more.
2:10:34I can't take it.
2:10:35I've got nothing.
2:10:37If Mitchell is needed, I can't pay him right now, full time.
2:10:41Check John's presence, partner.
2:10:47Some have explained quite a bit to the truck that he isn't on top of it.
2:10:53Because he's not open to running the campaign, he's not as effective as the others.
2:10:58Some of them think the others are doing the best job they can.
2:11:07I just haven't had a chance to follow over a couple of times.
2:11:13point is valid, but I'm not sure it's all that big a thing.
2:11:16I would argue if you're going to do that in the early years, it's better.
2:11:22I'd like to do anything like that that we have to do before China, because I think China's going to erase the slate.
2:11:29I think a hell of a lot of stuff.
2:11:31I agree with you.
2:11:37The hardest point that he makes,
2:12:01we have to face up to, Bob, is this.
2:12:05He's right about this.
2:12:09He's right.
2:12:09It's weak.
2:12:10And you know it.
2:12:11And I know it.
2:12:12And God damn it, we just can't quit.
2:12:13We've got to quit kidding ourselves about it.
2:12:14It's weak.
2:12:15And it's too late to do a goddamn thing about it, except that it's in the campaign.
2:12:18I don't know what else to do.
2:12:20He raised one name that I think he began with later.
2:12:26Thurston.
2:12:29He was a really superb writer over there.
2:12:31He's not a speechwriter, I don't know.
2:12:34He's a purge writer, probably.
2:12:36Writing speeches is a different thing.
2:12:41Oh, I think he's a little too rough on them.
2:12:42I don't think they're that poor.
2:12:45But he doesn't know what a speechwriter is.
2:12:47Well, what I meant is, I think, he's trying to save some elephants.
2:12:52I don't know what the Christ elephant is.
2:12:59I'm reading Roseman, but I'm trying to see if there's anything to be learned from that.
2:13:27and all the way through to White House.
2:13:29The key other guy, most of the time, was Bob Sherwood.
2:13:34And the other one was Harry Hopkins.
2:13:36He put in a hell of a lot of time and work in his Detroit.
2:13:41Harry Hopkins was like Sapphire.
2:13:42But it's very interesting, the way they worked as a team, not as individuals.
2:13:48I wonder if you could see if the kid thinks any of these speeches have been any good or not.
2:13:52Maybe they're not quite that bad.
2:13:57Are they?
2:13:57No.
2:13:58I guess they aren't at all.
2:14:01Some of them aren't good.
2:14:05That's the thing.
2:14:05That you may be getting perky drafts of wood.
2:14:12I don't think the age of the speech is here at this point.
2:14:21That's a good point.
2:14:23I mean, he's thinking of another age.
2:14:26Accepting the thing like an inaugural address, or an acceptance speech, you know, a sort of a shitting of that, high-water warning type of thing.
2:14:34They don't understand.
2:14:39For a moment now, so that we get the total guidance on the page.
2:14:46The guard arrives, as I said.
2:14:49Don't let him.
2:14:50I can't have two children on my hands, you understand?
2:14:52And I don't think Bill wants to be a child.
2:14:56In that respect, would you agree or not?
2:14:58And if he said, Jesus Christ the President, we shouldn't have done this, we shouldn't have done this, we shouldn't have done this, and that, and the other thing, he's got to come up and say, all right, now look, we've got new problems, and this is that, and he's got Laird, and he's got you, and he's got a hell of a lot of other things to work on, and that's the way he's working.
2:15:17And Bill, frankly,
2:15:18The president has every confidence in moving the State Department between us soon.
2:15:23I noticed, for example, in the news summary where one of our State Department people and I are pissed off, the only negative comment on Matt's trip was that it was totally political and that she insisted on nothing but black faces around us, which was smart as hell to know.
2:15:41That's the lie.
2:15:42And they forget that I adopted in 1953.
2:15:45You probably forget that when we
2:15:48In advance, our foreign trips, the State Department people want you to spend all the time with the American business community, with the American embassy staff, with the USID, with the Peace Corps, with the AID projects, correct?
2:16:07Or am I wrong?
2:16:08No, you're absolutely right.
2:16:10They went right up the wall when we started this.
2:16:13the first European trip, the Asian trip, because you wouldn't, we wouldn't have, you know, their plan was you should go to the embassy and have an embassy party for the American community.
2:16:26Well, they hired a school, a long talk with the American, with the embassy staff, and spent a lot of time with y'all there, and a luncheon with the top ten embassy people.
2:16:39This is the American school, and the Peace Corps Project, and the IAEA, all our aid programs.
2:16:46Sorry, it's good.
2:16:48And a dinner for the American people.
2:16:49A next in trade has always been, in all of my trips abroad, even when I was traveling privately, I'd go see the people of the other country, and not the people of our country.
2:16:58I had to catch my job.
2:17:00But there is some saying, now it's true, that maybe the other didn't get something.
2:17:04But that one guy didn't, you know.
2:17:05Right?
2:17:06You know it isn't true.
2:17:07Yeah.
2:17:07And it's
2:17:10That's sort of the typical one.
2:17:12What Bill will say is there's nothing I can do about that.
2:17:15Well, he'll deny it was done.
2:17:16That's probably true.
2:17:19There isn't anything true about that.
2:17:23There is a problem.
2:17:24There is a problem that I just cannot deal with some of these people.
2:17:27We cannot put them on diplomatic wire and get everybody leaving out and so forth and so on.
2:17:31The State Department does.
2:17:33Bill does not.
2:17:35That's why he has told everything.
2:17:37On the other hand, uh,
2:17:40He's afraid, of course, that, you know, an infidel can write about this.
2:17:46He's afraid in some instances that he doesn't want to send his cables over here to Henry.
2:17:50So, uh, he doesn't trust him to, uh, not to get them.
2:17:57It's too bad, but they ought to get them to me.
2:17:59That's my point.
2:18:00I, well, he's got no reason not to trust me.
2:18:11The idea, well, Henry doesn't show this to me, so I won't show mine to him.
2:18:14The point is, it ain't Henry he's showing them to, it's for the president.
2:18:18God damn it, I gotta know what he's saying to me.
2:18:21That's exactly the point.
2:18:23It isn't a matter of Henry.
2:18:25Henry's the judge.
2:18:26And also, Bill must realize that I run Henry a lot more than Henry runs me.
2:18:29He doesn't know this, but I do.
2:18:30I do it in a subtle way.
2:18:32Henry sometimes takes my name a little bit.
2:18:39Go ahead.
2:18:40Well, the president's off me every 10 minutes.
2:18:43Hell, I was on him.
2:18:44He's on me every 10 minutes.
2:18:47Yep.
2:18:48But if you could put it more in terms, Bill, we're coming into a hell of a tough campaign.
2:18:56And you could say, I guess, all over the president's week or a week, maybe you could say, if you realize what he's doing, he's got to see Ron.
2:19:05He's got to see the leaders.
2:19:09He's got to see
2:19:11He's got to do more instances of business.
2:19:14He's got to have a farewell party for Don Hughes.
2:19:17He's got to... And he said, this is cutting way down.
2:19:20He's got to see Bartsen.
2:19:22He's got to see the Dutch fire manager from the foreign side.
2:19:27In addition to all that, he's got to write and say, don't mention the agent in the future.
2:19:35He's got to have meetings with the leaders, meetings with the cabinet, and so forth and so on, and prepare for China.
2:19:41Under all those circumstances, some of us, and this is a part of it, all the crap that John Ehrlichman has to insist that we're going to do, I mean, what are you going to do for the environment this week?
2:19:51What are you going to do for the health services this week?
2:19:54What are you going to do for the elders this week?
2:19:57Do you understand?
2:19:58I don't really believe anybody but you.
2:20:00I don't think John Ehrlichman would know.
2:20:02Do you think he realizes what this son of a bitch is capable of?
2:20:04No.
2:20:04You don't think so?
2:20:06He didn't know.
2:20:07He doesn't know.
2:20:09I'm done all the time.
2:20:11You can't.
2:20:12It doesn't happen.
2:20:13See, what he doesn't realize is all the time you've got to spend on dealing with Henry, dealing with Roger Pollack, dealing with Larry.
2:20:23Talking to people.
2:20:25Dealing with Pollack.
2:20:31Right.
2:20:31And he knows what the facts are, but he worries about the public.
2:20:41Well, the main thing I'm showing you is that you've got to keep the president well, and you've got to keep him sharp, and you've got to keep him at his best.
2:20:50And we're going to keep you totally posted on China, but I do not want it to go down to the bowels of the State Department.
2:20:55I am not going to allow it to happen.
2:20:57It's too goddamn important.
2:21:01You just tell Bill that I don't trust Marshall Green, for example.
2:21:05I don't, I mean, it isn't, I don't, I don't think he's bad at it.
2:21:08I just think he's a loose man.
2:21:10See what I mean?
2:21:12I do trust Alex Johnson.
2:21:14Because he's an honorable, honorable, smart man.
2:21:24I trust Bill because he's so, he's always loyal, always faithful.
2:21:32I'm trying to think of a way to get around you, Bob, that's all.
2:21:34So that you don't just go in.
2:21:36I know that the product of assault isn't probably going to work with Bill.
2:21:40You've got to play with his vanity.
2:21:43All the other things, you know what I mean?
2:21:46The President needs you.
2:21:47He needs you to help solve his problem.
2:21:51And look, we know that Henry is terribly difficult to consult with the people in the West.
2:21:56Everybody else that I've got at this point, we cannot have a change.
2:22:03I don't think he'd tell us if that would work.
2:22:09I'm trying to think that if he did that, that would be a confession that we don't need to have.
2:22:15Cisco would be fine in Iran.
2:22:17He is an ambassador in Iran.
2:22:22We've got to be ruthless.
2:22:24Totally saw this.
2:22:52and just let Bill know a little of the feel of how I have to hold the hands of a lot of domestic Catholic people to, you know, not belong to God.
2:23:03I said all that.
2:23:04You have any idea how to handle that?
2:23:06What?
2:23:07No, I think this is the basic, basically what I have to understand.
2:23:12Yeah.
2:23:15He's raised it, which is fortunate.
2:23:19There was a phone call from him this morning.
2:23:21He made it perfect.
2:23:26He's raised exactly the problem he was talking about.
2:23:28He said, I've got to know what happened in China.
2:23:30He's raised both points.
2:23:32The need to know both sides and the need to protect each other rather than to attack each other.
2:23:40It feels a little different.
2:23:44Maybe, of course, he probably, Henry believes that Bill's delighting the attacks on Henry.
2:23:48I'm not so sure Bill is.
2:23:50I'm not so sure that Bill doesn't see that hurt to solve, right?
2:23:54Was that like Pedersen or somebody that he delighted with?
2:23:58Sure.
2:24:00I don't think Bill was.
2:24:03I mean, except the black, I don't think Rodney's his own.
2:24:08Oh, hell no, he's not.
2:24:10And also, Rogers is not as dumb and stupid as him.
2:24:14Oh, shit.
2:24:14I've sat in enough meetings to see that he's also not a brilliant foreign policy strategist.
2:24:20Well, it isn't that he's not brilliant.
2:24:22He's brilliant at times, but not as a strategist.
2:24:25But he's not a proponent.
2:24:27He's a tactician, not a strategy man.
2:24:29He's a default.
2:24:33Typical foreign service man.
2:24:36No foreign affairs resource.
2:24:37Foreign service people are...
2:24:39Strategies that have to be, like in general, very solid, you know, strategies that have to be, you know, strategies that have to be, you know, strategies that have to be, you know, strategies that have to be.
2:25:03I heard on the table, on the desk, that Henry's been very good that morning.
2:25:12He doesn't think there's a problem.
2:25:15Why the hell did he call Rockefeller?
2:25:17I think he should have told him that we know him.
2:25:20He did.
2:25:21And he said he did call Rockefeller, but Rockefeller called him because he was upset about the stuff in the magazines.
2:25:29And a Rockefeller was the one who said, someone's got to get out of here and get .
2:25:36And we're all like, fine.
2:25:37That's him.
2:25:39He's fine.
2:25:40And then had we didn't say he was going to resign in the 27th,
2:25:45I had a curious incident I was just put in a little book, a little talk with Paul Keyes, and he called me on Thursday night and said, he said, Lenny, you've got a call from Henry, Henry's going to make a speech for the Women's National Press Club, and he wants me to help write it.
2:25:58I said, what is it like?
2:25:59I said, well, it's like a gridiron.
2:26:00Henry's going to do the Women's National Press Club thing.
2:26:08That doesn't bother me.
2:26:10That is not your doing.
2:26:12It is not a substantive speech, but it's a total waste of Henry Kissinger's time.
2:26:19They'll chop him to pieces and afterwards they're cats.
2:26:26What?
2:26:28You know, he's been after me.
2:26:29I mean, he's always... Margaret called once on the CBS morning show, and I said, Henry, it's not big enough.
2:26:36And he braved with me at least ten times in the last week.
2:26:39But today's show, I said, Henry, it's not big enough.
2:26:41There'll come a time.
2:26:43And when we use you, we're going to use you on a bigger basis.
2:26:46He is just...
2:26:47But he's panting to get out.
2:26:49We've got to get him out into the Los Angeles country for us.
2:26:53Correct me.
2:26:54Yeah, but we'll take a look.
2:26:59Just say that we'll consider that.
2:27:07That was getting to the, but that'll keep them, but then, but he'll consider it, but he must not agree to it in advance.
2:27:16Sorry, I'll put it down.
2:27:18Then if the bastards piss on them, on us, on the cryptos, I'm not going to do it.
2:27:24He covered all this with it.
2:27:29He said, how are you this morning?
2:27:32Henry said he's in good shape.
2:27:37There's no point in him coming out.
2:27:39He's got everything rolling well in the state of Florida.
2:27:42He wants to stay there and get it done.
2:27:46There's no reason to be concerned.
2:27:49He told him that I was
2:27:52He said, well, if we can get the bureaucratic procedure ironed out so that we don't have the problem of the attacks, the cable clearance, and then the reports, then I think we can work all this out.
2:28:12He was out there, you know, and he was all solid.
2:28:17He doesn't think there's a...
2:28:21What do you think about the call for him to run for president?
2:28:48We'll be right back.
2:29:18He has had a terrible problem with depression and coming down and all that sort of thing.
2:29:26And he took the land.
2:29:26He has a theory that a great deal of his depression is related with his epilepsy and electricity, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
2:29:36And the land helps even though he's in epilepsy.
2:29:38That's the practice theory.
2:29:40In any event, the land was cursed.
2:29:45When he gets back, I'm going to tell him to take some of this.
2:29:51It's good for you.
2:29:53It makes you sleep better.
2:29:56The driver says it does.
2:29:58I read a little book on the way out.
2:29:59He has a hundred different cases of which 90 people were helped by the people who have apparently depression.
2:30:10It comes down to emotional stress more.
2:30:13Yeah, sure.
2:30:19What the fuck?
2:31:17I do think this.
2:31:18I do think the idea that Ryland could go along is good.
2:31:25Because I know Ryland's good for Henry.
2:33:45Food is a 90% of the problem for me.
2:33:47We're about to make a law on it, once and for all.
2:33:50And I'm just going to have to cook my food.
2:33:53They understand that, don't they?
2:33:55Yeah, certainly.
2:33:56Yeah, but I know I have to make my regular stuff, take a long enough of it, just so the person doesn't die.
2:34:02And that's the habit, not me.
2:34:05I'm just going to have to cook my food.
2:34:09Well, I do, yeah.
2:34:12That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's,
2:34:36But after that, you've got to be sure that you've heard from all those people who speak that name.
2:34:43And I don't know what they're going to say to you.
2:34:48Yeah, I'm sure John is following up on that, too.
2:34:51And you understand why.
2:34:52And you can go off and have a fight in my place and respond to him.
2:34:58He's going to get up and he's going to do it again.
2:35:01He'll get even settled on one day.
2:35:04And he's going to do it better.
2:35:07But we cannot go through.
2:35:09Let it change.
2:35:12There's no reason to play this even for the world.
2:35:17Nothing changing.
2:35:20Roger's situation will change, Henry.
2:35:24I think I was probably right to set this sort of order that it's set today.
2:35:31No matter how it's set, you almost have to do nothing.
2:35:35I wonder about what the goddamn portion of the women who could very well be, you know, he may have his, you know, real life and all that sort of thing, maybe about 50 years of school, but what do you find out about the environment?
2:35:57Apparently most people who follow that kind of life, it leads to more and more dissatisfaction, not dissatisfaction, because it's
2:36:06I haven't read enough about it.
2:36:08You can only have satisfaction out of the Freudian analysis.
2:36:20The people who just have no ties at all, they do put place in place.
2:36:33a totally different kind of personality as well.
2:37:32The music continues to take to what is actually the rest of our audience to sketch with in this place of dark and light.
2:37:40And I talk to George.
2:37:47She says she thinks Parker is excellent, but doesn't understand.
2:37:58She says that she and Fisher are so well-informed about this.
2:38:06It's her view.
2:38:11It may be wrong, but it's worth considering.
2:38:31She's right on the bottom of it.
2:38:33There's a merit to that, too, because we've had Jason and his crew out on the continent working on that.
2:38:42Jason works with people who he's working with.
2:38:47And because of your defense, the people that are left have to work on some of that and kind of work on this training and get people moving out.
2:38:59She's right.
2:39:00Tell her.
2:39:01Well, have somebody tell her.
2:39:02I mean, it would be nice if you were reassured of that.
2:41:47It's a good idea to get a fake poll out early that shows us weak and then say we don't care.
2:41:56No, that's not the problem.
2:41:58That would have been showing us maybe 52%.
2:42:00Then you say, good, let's have it.
2:42:03That's okay.
2:42:03It's the best.
2:42:04That's weird.
2:42:05How about a fake poll?
2:42:07Okay.
2:42:08I don't mind if I have to talk.
2:42:13That's fine.
2:42:21He's such a contrast.
2:42:31He's so valuable in so many ways.
2:42:39He could be
2:42:51You know what's going to happen?
2:42:54You'll have another spray pump.
2:42:57The writer's book, maybe.
2:43:00You may have another spray pump.
2:43:02We didn't write it.
2:43:03The heavy thinks that he was a great celebrity in his own right, and we will find that he was not.
2:43:09And that's horribly hard for anybody.
2:43:10Remember, it was hard for many of our people who came and came in from the 60s.
2:43:15They didn't realize that you were a celebrity.
2:43:17And, you know, death was terribly hard for them.
2:43:22But it was something that, you know, you're no longer the, you know, the top dog, you know, another person.
2:43:32He's always sort of a personality, for other reasons.
2:43:36He's taking it to the highest ground.
2:43:41But it's not quite so true, because Henry, obviously, you know what?
2:43:47These hoops, fancy girls, you know, they will know more than a fly.
2:43:53You realize you know them, and that's...
2:44:38I just don't.
2:44:38First, I agree with you.
2:44:39They're not that important.
2:44:41On the other hand, good God, with the effort and everything we're putting into them, are we that bad?
2:44:46I don't think nobody really realizes how much we...
2:44:50Some of them you haven't done an enormous amount, but every one of them you've done a fair amount with, and some of them you've really totally re-worked.
2:45:02And they say we've got some good speakers.
2:45:05How much of that is a speech artist?
2:45:07They do that.
2:45:09They don't do much on the memorable phrases.
2:45:12They don't do much on the meaningful anecdotes.
2:45:17And they don't have a strong...
2:45:22Say, I can take the summer on my own.
2:45:25I'd say it would be worth it if we had our crush.
2:45:32I'm glad.
2:47:26Trying to stand was very interesting.
2:47:28I was curious.
2:47:29I thought they had made a gap year, but it's a very good time coming.
2:47:34CBS said, let's get this time here off.
2:47:37Now, they, on their, watching their media, the rating soared down for the first couple minutes.
2:47:43The people tuned out in some minutes before or after a couple minutes.
2:47:49I think this is a very fascinating presenter.
2:47:53The set was totally amazing.
2:47:56We have many ways to know whether people, I was on CBS, the third people on the floor, which helped me the most.
2:48:23And it probably did if you were the back of the adversary.
2:48:28And you got a judgment.
2:48:29And on that basis, there was no question that you were the champion.
2:48:36I think Steve Pieska was delighted with it.
2:48:42He was a one-on-one with it.
2:48:46They thought they had a hell of a good story.
2:48:51And I always would rather talk about the fact that I was in Irving again.
2:48:57No, that's a hang-up business, sir.
2:48:59I think it's because he is.
2:49:00And that thing, there was one thing, what he was so tempted about, there was, oh, there was one thing, I didn't see it now, but I may be wrong, I'm sorry, but there was one time that I was totally in command, and frankly, I think I am almost always, but I thought that was one thing.
2:49:18And you chose,
2:49:20a difference at the start of something, sometimes on the press conference or something like that.
2:49:27It can come on, you know, be ready to take things.
2:49:30You can see that on the side.
2:49:31It isn't nervousness.
2:49:34It's a way out.
2:49:35You're heat up.
2:49:37And then it's tension, yeah.
2:49:39And then that, after the first couple of minutes, always goes away as you kind of swing into gear and start pacing.
2:49:48That wasn't evident at all.
2:49:50You know, I did one very small thing that I thought was very important.
2:49:58CBS, my good head, set up so that he would introduce the program.
2:50:04I said, hold on.
2:50:06I said, this is my office.
2:50:09He's my guest.
2:50:10I will introduce the program.
2:50:14And I think that's very important, putting this place in the beginning, which I think is a small thing, but I don't know if it would be right with you to come in.
2:50:25I'm going to have him here, we'll go back to the function.
2:50:29Let me go over by camera to the...
2:50:40first of all again you have to read everything that he says and this is not the discounted because it isn't but in terms that he speaks from the eastern establishment
2:51:07isn't necessarily sold on by who has no anything else.
2:51:11I'm inclined to think that he discounts too much the, shall we say, the work ethic, the Protestant ethic, that great mass of people out there who feel that the country should be number one and so forth and so on.
2:51:30Am I wrong or right?
2:51:34We need that at one point.
2:51:35It's very fundamental.
2:51:36That's where the state of the union comes in.
2:51:40Well, I'm just trying to get some things in my mind before I write.
2:51:43That's a supplementary figure.
2:51:45I kept wondering about that.
2:51:50Maybe we overdo it.
2:51:51Well, I think there's that possibility in that while people do want to be number one, it may be that they don't want to talk about or be told that they want to be number one at one point.
2:52:03You're sort of sticking them to a thing.
2:52:06What they want is they want things to be better.
2:52:08They need to be given the glint of the Spirit.
2:52:11And we've got to...
2:52:13It's interesting.
2:52:16Schultz and Harold in our meeting last night, Schultz had given a lot of heart.
2:52:21He's a fine man, isn't he?
2:52:25Yeah, he really is.
2:52:27Fine man.
2:52:28He's a very thoughtful guy.
2:52:44There's been quite a lot of talk about the whole question of the issue of osteoarthritis, and his own area, and he raised this, and he covered this again this morning, he's particularly concerned about unemployment, because he feels that we're not structured right on the issue of unemployment, that we have, by the way we're structured, posed ourselves in the laps of the gods,
2:53:09If unemployment goes down, we'll be all right.
2:53:11If unemployment doesn't go down, we've got a hell of a problem.
2:53:15And the reason being that we're never strong, we don't come out strongly against unemployment.
2:53:21Instead, we try to, and he says I'm the first one that's guilty of this, we try to say that the unemployment isn't so bad.
2:53:29where we make it very clear that we are against inflation.
2:53:32He said, we're now in a position where we've got no problem with inflation.
2:53:36You're clearly positioned as the fighter of inflation.
2:53:41And it's a position you can build on a trade-off.
2:53:44You obviously maintain it, but you don't need to worry much about the inflation side of the coin.
2:53:53And he says, on unemployment, though, we should be less in a posture of explaining away the unemployment problem and more in the posture of doing something about it because we care something about it.
2:54:05We've got to get out and look concerned about unemployment.
2:54:09And he said, for instance, you are always bothered by the fact that Kennedy had higher unemployment when he came in than you have now.
2:54:18Yet he was never blamed for unemployment.
2:54:20Nobody ever told Kennedy about unemployment.
2:54:23There are two reasons.
2:54:26One, he inherited the unemployment.
2:54:28Two, it was going down under him, not going up.
2:54:31But it went down over his three years.
2:54:37And how much?
2:54:39Six, seven, five, seven.
2:54:41Oh, you're right.
2:54:42Six, seven.
2:54:43I didn't count that.
2:54:44Okay.
2:54:44Go ahead.
2:54:45You're right.
2:54:46Go ahead.
2:54:48And he and his people didn't.
2:54:51Arthur Goldberg, who was the good secretary of labor,
2:54:56was good in that he went out to unemployment offices and talked to people in the lines and said what are we going to do he looked worried about this problem to the people who were unemployed and to the other people we don't look that way we keep saying it's not so much of a problem it's going to go away when you know we're ending the war and all that he said we need to reposition ourselves as really caring about unemployment we've got some pounds off all the time likely pounds on rising prices
2:55:23Now, we've made our case on rising prices because we did it over and over and over.
2:55:26We're not going to let prices keep going up.
2:55:28We've got to stop this thing.
2:55:30And you took positive action.
2:55:32You also took positive action on unemployment by your tax lawyers, but you didn't have interaction.
2:55:37They didn't provide any interaction.
2:55:39Now, I agree with that totally.
2:55:41He said, I think what we've got to do is get a Peterson-Hodgson team, Congress and labor, out into the country.
2:55:49And then maybe you've got to give them a charge to say, you guys have the assignment for the next four months of full-time being concerned about unemployment.
2:55:58They said, the FOIA operation on the West Coast is an ideal kind of thing like that.
2:56:02I just had this shared with her.
2:56:04Good.
2:56:05FOIA looks like you're worried about unemployment, so you got this guy out doing it.
2:56:08Now, get your two cabin officers who are concerned with commerce and whatever, get them out worrying about unemployment.
2:56:15About peacetime unemployment.
2:56:16Right.
2:56:17That's a gap.
2:56:19Keep the focus on the deep side of things.
2:56:22Good point.
2:56:22The Washington Post had a strong editorial this morning.
2:56:25It happened to play right into Shultz's mind, which was that the unemployment problem, that you make the, they shot down, attempted to shoot down your argument that the unemployment
2:56:38Or that the price of high employment was too high because we were killing a lot of people.
2:56:45And they said that's a good debater's point.
2:56:48But it's not a valid point because the basic problem is that the labor market is increasing by 1.5 million people per year.
2:56:59And the labor number of jobs is only increasing by 1.1 million people per year.
2:57:04So there is an annual deficit of 0.4 million
2:57:08in terms of jobs available that is true to a point except if the two million people who were in defense plans and in the armed services were still in the bottom five would be less than five percent yeah the post argues at that point because they say if the armed forces people were employed wouldn't they only look for defense
2:57:27But they come back.
2:57:28They said there weren't too many.
2:57:29No, they said it, but then they forgot about it in the next paragraph.
2:57:34But they make the point that the key to the solution to unemployment is an expanding economy, to have more things happening so that there are more jobs, because there are more people coming into the economy.
2:57:45You noticed on the shuttle, Humphrey came out for it, Muskie came out against it.
2:57:51Well, see, Humphrey's doing it to the Florida primary and not to the... Humphrey's big primary is Florida.
2:57:57Must be big primary as a manager.
2:58:00Florida, the space shuttles that they paint, must be hurting themselves in Florida.
2:58:03But he's making it.
2:58:03Damn right.
2:58:04The Colson argument in this, with regard to Hallett's thing, which I don't do, and this is where Chuck is particularly good, he's not a great strategist, but he's particularly good on this, his idea of going after the Rizzo's, the
2:58:22the space shuttle people, the shipyard people, et cetera, et cetera.
2:58:26The building trades is very well taken.
2:58:28In other words, no actor special in this room, correct?
2:58:32Go ahead.
2:58:34George, that's our biggest, the unemployment thing is our biggest thing that we've made in the state by just putting ourselves in the hands of the people.
2:58:41But it's not.
2:58:41We can move on.
2:58:42We can move on.
2:58:43He thinks we should.
2:58:44And we should be doing it right now.
2:58:46For the next three or four months, we should look like the only thing that we're really worried about is unemployment.
2:58:51We should quit saying it's going to be better next month.
2:58:55And instead should say, yes, it's going to be better next month, but we're damn worried about what it is right now and what it'll be next month.
2:58:59We want it to be better than that.
2:59:01And get out and do something about it.
2:59:03And it's not our opinion.
2:59:06Maybe I should go to another department office.
2:59:07Administration people have to, you know, they might see it.
2:59:12His next point is the one that everybody can talk about, the trust and confidence issue.
2:59:17And he says that, for instance, on the economy, he thinks it was a serious mistake, and I agree with him, for a company to go out and say, oh, $2,000 won't go over $1,000, it may go to $1,100.
2:59:29It may not.
2:59:29Because it may not.
2:59:30And then we have a prediction we're up to.
2:59:32And if it does go over, that'll be fine.
2:59:35If it doesn't, if it only goes to $980 now,
2:59:39Then we've fallen short about this thing, but 980 is still dang good.
2:59:44His point is, we should understand some of what we're doing.
2:59:47He agrees with the science theory.
2:59:49He probably saw a science memo on how he's doing after his economic report, so what we need is to make models.
2:59:56and deliverable provisions rather than grandiose.
2:59:58We've got the reality going with us now.
3:00:01Therefore, and psychology is basically going with us.
3:00:04Like a campaign, don't predict margins.
3:00:06We don't need to use it so much.
3:00:08Good point.
3:00:08And he says now the budget's going to pose a problem because of the way we're coming in on that.
3:00:16Then he says we've got another problem.
3:00:18It cuts two ways, which is our cutting government spending.
3:00:22We've got a hell of a case here.
3:00:24We have cut government spending.
3:00:28If we were to pay, he's got a figure about him, he's told you, if the taxpayer today, this year, next year, were to pay the same rates of income taxes as he had to pay in 1968, he would pay $20 billion more in taxes than we will collect next year.
3:00:48So we've had a hell of a tax period in Texas.
3:00:51We've had a hell of a tax period.
3:00:55he said we're hitting it sharply in the budget and the budget message was making the point that we have reduced federal spending get that over the top and you've got another statistical thing to get that in the comments and in the three years before you came in the federal budget went up 57 percent in the three years since you've been in the federal budget's on about 24 percent or something like that in other words you have cut in half the rate of increase of federal spending
3:01:24But he said that cuts both ways because that goes back to the do we care about people and are we expanding enough?
3:01:31What are we really doing?
3:01:32Are we expanding enough?
3:01:33And all that.
3:01:36Then he says we've got to question priorities.
3:01:38And we are building strongly into the budget to the point that we're going to a strong defense budget.
3:01:43We've got to do it in the heat for it and answer the question, do we need a strong defense budget?
3:01:49I think we need to do it.
3:01:53But we need to.
3:01:54I think we can, too.
3:01:55I think the right way is not to get that across.
3:01:58And he goes, we've got another issue we've got to concern ourselves with, which is preoccupation with foreign affairs.
3:02:04We've cut taxes.
3:02:06We've cut government responsibility.
3:02:10It's better for people to decide what's good for the people rather than for the government to spend a quarter.
3:02:18We've established a new priority for defense in the budget, an increased emphasis on priority for defense.
3:02:28We've established a priority for international affairs just by what we appear to do, just by what appears in the press as the important things, because it's what people are interested in.
3:02:39Therefore, you can draw a conclusion from that that we don't care about the problems at all.
3:02:45and that the opposition will attempt to make that come.
3:02:48We've got to be aware of that.
3:02:52Then he says, he gets to the point of the thrust of the future,
3:02:56Somehow we've clearly got to establish what is our aspiration for the country.
3:03:00How do we describe the future as we'd like to see it?
3:03:05And we should avoid saying we want to be number one, but rather should go to the great spirit and the pioneers, what made the country the American spirit.
3:03:16Right, the American number one.
3:03:18I agree with that.
3:03:20I raise it.
3:03:20We've got to talk about the better way of life, the health, the environment,
3:03:26all of this kind of stuff, asking our goals here, in a world that's safe and at peace.
3:03:29I'll do the same thing.
3:03:30Issue our agency officer on crime and drug abuse, and say we've got a problem there, and that we can't really show results.
3:03:40We can only show recognition of the problem, recognition of the problem and the results, which is blocking us on an hour, but since we can show results, and apparently they've got a new drug standard, the results say about an hour and a half, something like that.
3:03:54moved on a task force basis in the next couple weeks and started arresting the peddlers.
3:03:59They're trying to get help, but they can't do it.
3:04:02They're breaking in because they're going to go out and arrest the actual guys on the streets that are selling the stuff for the high school kids.
3:04:08Which they haven't been arresting because the judges always throw them out.
3:04:13And then arrest them this time and turn them over to grand juries instead of the court.
3:04:16And they're going to give them immunity.
3:04:19Offer them immunity.
3:04:21if they'll tell who their supplier is.
3:04:23Great.
3:04:24So, then you put the guy in a hell of a box, he either ventures the supplier, or you go after the supplier.
3:04:28He's done a very lot of effective thinking here, but I suggest that he should run it with Connell sometime.
3:04:38He did Connell early on.
3:04:40You know, you know what I mean?
3:04:48And he says there's a whole bunch of bits and pieces of issues that are going to be very important in local areas.
3:04:54Bussing is the key one.
3:04:57But bussing is going to, in Texas and Tennessee and a couple other places, is going to be the vital issue.
3:05:03Suburban housing is going to be the vital issue someplace else.
3:05:06And some kind of pollution thing.
3:05:12We've got to look to where the federal government fits in with some of those.
3:05:18And that's it.
3:05:19But what led me to this was his address to the future, where he argues that we should be looking to ask him to write a paragraph for me on his qualitative spirits from America and so forth, and we'll talk about number one.
3:05:30See if we can do that.
3:05:32He isn't a very good writer, basically, but he was very involved in that, and that gave me an idea.
3:05:42You push that to Christ.
3:05:48Well, they're not nearly as bad as Hallett, so to speak.
3:05:56But Hallett, he was in his 30s.
3:06:01You can see he didn't fall away too bad.
3:06:06Well, it's good.
3:06:07It's a way to make a point.
3:06:11He may say that we're a speech writing team, but I don't know that he knows anything about Johnson.
3:06:16Johnson's speeches were not as good as your speeches.
3:06:21Eisenhower's speeches were much worse than your speeches.
3:06:25They were terrible.
3:06:26They were poorly put together with a glimmer of an idea once in a while.
3:06:34And then Hughes came up with a good idea once in a while.
3:06:39After he was gone, there wasn't much of anything after that.
3:06:46Roy knows some of those little things we've done.
3:06:48The ability to report a speech, to report a speech.
3:06:51The one in Nebraska, the one in the, frankly, one of the elderly.
3:06:57Of course, he's done a lot of work in life.
3:07:00He's probably done the fastest speech in the world.
3:07:06I'm in JCCC as a member of the Booster Ocean business.
3:07:12It's partly wrong.
3:07:13I mean, Booster isn't as damn important.
3:07:18I mean, you've got to be somewhat...
3:07:19Some people want to be proud of it, and I don't want to be.
3:07:22Now, when I come to a couple of other things...
3:07:28The power of a distinction in one thing is going to require a hell of a lot of work on my part.
3:07:35I think we should go to two...
3:07:41I think the market will take it if we do it at 7.30.
3:07:43I think we've got to go to two televised press conferences.
3:07:51Now, by televised press conference, you can substitute, for example, that world that the conference would be headed to, world...
3:08:00I think we ought to do that.
3:08:03Well, that'll be a hell of a show.
3:08:08Don't you think it will?
3:08:10I'll wait and see.
3:08:1145 minutes.
3:08:14Not coming off in 45 minutes.
3:08:19Let me re-oppress that 15 minutes to come.
3:08:23You can say that if you want to leave time for analysis afterwards.
3:08:31Why do you remember that a lot of people won't listen to the analysis you're on?
3:08:37I don't know whether he's right about this, but, you know, we didn't win in the day-to-day line, I guess, much.
3:08:46One of those reasons for Pat's success is that you did do some things that were culpable.
3:08:56And you still come here with an instance of it.
3:08:58And one of the problems with that car crash that we had
3:09:00He said, you know, that I'm having a present, I'm going to do a bunch of interesting things.
3:09:06He's very colorful, but probably legitimate.
3:09:09What do you think?
3:09:10I disagree.
3:09:11He said we need colorful events.
3:09:12So I get out of that sports shirt.
3:09:15I disagree with that.
3:09:17I disagree with sports shirts.
3:09:18But I agree, going into it back, the point is, what the hell is that shipyard thing they call it these days?
3:09:27What the hell is that meeting of the woman down there in Florida with Color Man?
3:09:33What?
3:09:36Absolutely.
3:09:36Because I think the crap in the office is not, is pick up the ass, come to himself, some of it.
3:09:42Well, maybe I'm wrong.
3:09:45But the president's got to be present.
3:09:46The president can't be a guy running around and whacking it up with everybody all the time.
3:09:54He'd write the union in the past.
3:09:57I asked him, what do you think of that?
3:09:58He thought that was great.
3:10:02We have to realize, I guess, Bob, we have to realize that if we look over the year, we have been on a persistent attack.
3:10:18We have lost, but more than that, we've kind of been on papers.
3:10:29And the hell of a lot of stuff in the Senate.
3:10:31And the Senate goes over and over and over and over.
3:10:33And there was an idea of power in the State of Tennessee.
3:10:35And, uh...
3:10:37It's gone.
3:10:37I heard.
3:10:41Yeah.
3:10:42And then they said, the bomb didn't even flip.
3:10:48I, I, I constantly flipped because it would not cause the sketch.
3:10:51And it's gone.
3:10:55It's gone.
3:10:57It is gone.
3:10:57Yeah.
3:10:59I know that one interesting thing that probably surprised me.
3:11:01He doesn't like comments.
3:11:02I thought the other day he was like, what the hell is that?
3:11:06Huh?
3:11:06He does have a fight, but he's definitely good with comments.
3:11:12He's a guy that they can see.
3:11:17I don't agree with that.
3:11:18I think you can always have two strong men.
3:11:21Connie and I are very different people.
3:11:26But you know, we get back to the communist critique after the 17th Amendment when we thought that we shouldn't stand in the car and this and that and the other thing.
3:11:40So you're right.
3:11:43There's this guy, right?
3:13:38If I can, I left it for a moment for the press conference deal.
3:13:45Do you or do you not think that maybe that is, you know, we, we have, we want to remember the first year, the very first year we all went over the heads of the press for the press conference.
3:13:59And, uh, it was pretty technical.
3:14:01And they bitched like hell.
3:14:03And, uh, they don't like it.
3:14:05Now, I think the office press conference is pretty nervous.
3:14:10I think going out in the room for a film press conference is fair, but better than nothing.
3:14:17But I believe that we actually have to go to the 730 and have a whole goddamn truck in there and do them all.
3:14:28What do you think about this?
3:14:30It requires enormous work on my part.
3:14:40It's valid work other than just preparing for the press conference, because the press conference does do some whacking up of other things.
3:14:46Around here, it fires some of our people up, establishes some lines that we don't get established otherwise.
3:14:51It takes the place of the people in a sense, because you tell them that's a valid program.
3:14:57That's what you order the press to do, which you're going to have to do.
3:15:07It takes advantage of the presidency.
3:15:11It's a plus.
3:15:12In other words, you have a chance to get on television on all three networks at once.
3:15:17In other words, you dominate the total audience, the 50 million audience, which nobody else can do.
3:15:22The typical that we do there with the 730 conference is we miss California.
3:15:26I'm happy about that.
3:15:27Do something about that at 730.
3:15:33What are you doing here at 730?
3:15:351030 is the real prime time.
3:15:37Go to 11 o'clock and then this comes up.
3:15:4011 o'clock is news time also.
3:15:41Good.
3:15:41Go to 11 o'clock here and screw the prime time in the west.
3:15:48That puts you on the 8 o'clock in the west, which is prime time, and you go ahead and interrupt them.
3:15:55I think 11 is too late.
3:15:57I think 1030.
3:16:00I think maybe he's right about this, that we've gone too much for the new federalism.
3:16:28I agree on the feeling was all right, because that escalation for our voices to be federalism, to the American Revolution, to the Second Amendment.
3:16:41I'm not going to carbonate this one.
3:16:46I'm going to share it.
3:16:51We argue that the best thing to do is go into a totally non-shearing state.
3:16:58Don't go to the president of all the people, the thoughtful president trying to get his job done.
3:17:16You know what I think?
3:17:21Have a couple of cheers at the beginning.
3:17:39So that they really come up off their feet at the end.
3:17:45But you don't have to climb all the way up.
3:17:59That's what I really find, you know, but I, the reason I made it together with Ray is to develop the right to the right to determine and develop speech.
3:18:06Have you ever read any of his first drafts?
3:18:08I mean, he's got critical thought down.
3:18:13He said they are, you know, they're essays.
3:18:20Wow.
3:18:20His point, though, that the program is really
3:18:28And this art is against our own control.
3:18:36We're almost, I mean, we're protograms.
3:18:41Not what matters.
3:18:46The idea of the man, you know, we started in 1971 with that.
3:18:51I was glad to see the real Nixon on that boat ship.
3:18:57We did really well.
3:18:58We did really well.
3:18:58We did something that's around Christmas time this year.
3:19:01The question that I have is this, is whether or not his judgment in regard to Muskie having an image of a strong, inflected, prudent man, and Nixon having an image of a cosmopolitan,
3:19:19et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
3:19:21Now, I think you have to pull away at some point.
3:19:28What do you think?
3:19:29I think it's wrong.
3:19:30If we haven't gotten through anything, you know, I don't want to be misled by our own partisans, but you hear Connelly say it, you hear certainly Colson and others call around the country, say that Kissinger says it.
3:19:47There's a hell of a lot of people who feel that the president is a strong president.
3:19:53I think what Haidt is doing there is he's following, he has the filthiest notion of what people think.
3:19:58What he's doing is falling victim to the conventional wisdom of the establishment press.
3:20:04He's easing it.
3:20:07Interpreting what they say you are as being what people think you are.
3:20:10But you remember you had a horrible night before, a late summer, which indicated that on the first moment there was trust, that others considered you more, and so forth, and so on.
3:20:20I don't think we did that.
3:20:24Yeah.
3:20:24And it's an interesting topic.
3:20:26Harris is horrible.
3:20:27We did better on trust than Muskie did.
3:20:32Yeah.
3:20:33Right?
3:20:35Right?
3:20:35You're wrong.
3:20:36That's bad news.
3:20:39What he points out, Truman had guts in us, and Johnson had vigor, and I had believability, and makes a flaw, and that's the case, that we are in real trouble.
3:20:50Well, I mean, we've got to do something.
3:20:52I don't mean real trouble, we've just got to do something about it.
3:20:55I don't think it is the case, and especially after the, I'd like to tell him, and I don't have to repeat it,
3:21:05I just don't think people understand a lot of things.
3:21:11There is some validity to the thing that Nixon's image forces to create.
3:21:18uh equal minuses in the sense that uh people want to be reassured and settled and you're concerned about worrying yeah that's right
3:21:37that they want to be settled.
3:21:39They want to be all right.
3:21:40And while they admire your bold moves, there's a counterbalancing thing, which is that unsettling.
3:21:51Whether you establish your boldness, but you've also jarred moves from complacency, which they want to be lulled back into.
3:22:27It's like talking to a taxi cab driver.
3:22:31It's better than that, but it's, you know, people say everybody I talk to believes this and that, or everybody doesn't believe this and that and that.
3:22:39It's always, at best, 60-40, and then it comes down to the final judgment, and it's 149.
3:24:36Yeah, he's very concerned about where it ends up and was that judge our judge?
3:24:45Democratic judge, I believe.
3:24:51And he assumes that they would get a say in what they feel.
3:24:58So that nothing happens.
3:24:59And obviously, the vote is going up to the Supreme Court.
3:25:03And our Supreme Court may turn that around.
3:25:09They're worried all of a sudden that it doesn't help anything.
3:25:12The only thing to worry is that they should fail to get a state or something.
3:25:19How was his decision?
3:25:20That doesn't make an order yet.
3:25:24You don't want to know.
3:25:26I see no other course but for us to continue to fight against those issues.
3:25:33We may have to go earlier than has to now.
3:25:35We really go forward with the legislation, don't you think?
3:25:41Yeah.
3:25:43We're on the right side of the issue, whatever the Democrats on the other side are.
3:25:51The analysis of the weakness of a man and personality is valid.
3:25:56I believe that that is what is consistent in the attempt.
3:26:03I don't think that it's the events that would be validated by a public poll at all.
3:26:09You know, you give that to some people.
3:26:13You know, it relates to this.
3:26:20to consider drug offenses as a must-do.
3:26:29The media have made the Democrats all-knowing, you know?
3:26:38Right?
3:26:41I think it knocks out one of your principal problems, which is to hear the president.
3:26:53People have got to make the decision if there's someone else capable of doing the president.
3:27:06They throw you out.
3:27:07And then, you imagine the incompetency.
3:27:12You think it's great, right?
3:27:13It proved to be great.
3:27:16It proved to be great with virtually everybody else.
3:27:18It proved to be true.
3:27:21You get right down to the crunch, people have got to decide.
3:27:23You're a milk plant.
3:27:24They know what's wrong about you.
3:27:25They know what's right about you.
3:27:29They know how you'll be as president.
3:27:30And particularly on a foreign policy thing, they know that you're capable of being harmed.
3:27:36And you've got to just scare the geese out of them about how you know what this is.
3:27:41He doesn't understand anything about what's going on, getting in the middle of all these intricate negotiations we're involved in.
3:27:52No.
3:27:52That, of course, violates my rule of play, because they're a strong issue.
3:27:59I don't think they do.
3:28:01I think what they do is that
3:28:03There is, that you've got to maintain the foreign policy.
3:28:09I'm not sure that would be a strength, but it is our strong point.
3:28:14What they're concerned about are, and particularly what Joe said, and I think is that you, in emphasizing and selling the foreign policy point.
3:28:27But I've got to avoid getting caught in the thing of, because of that, you don't care about the other.
3:28:33But you're so preoccupied with that that you don't know or care what's happening here.
3:28:37That's why April and May can be March, April and May can be March and April.
3:28:42What President has got to be concerned about all the problems.
3:28:48He's got to solve the foreign policy negotiations and all that, but he can't do that to the exclusion of the United States.
3:28:54He's got to be concerned about it too.
3:28:57That's the point there.
3:29:00I don't think you're going to score any positive points if you give them a good negative.
3:29:06For Muskie to trudge around saying, you know, that guy Nixon's running off talking to the Russians and the Chinese, well, that's just dandy, except I'm concerned about things right here in River City.
3:29:17If he doesn't care about it, I'm concerned about that man in the airport.
3:29:22I care about the problem in the river to get lost sometimes.
3:29:28Well, Harrison doesn't give a damn.
3:29:29He's out taking his trips, talking to the people over in China.
3:29:34He's a man of the planet.
3:29:36Besides, he's an advocate.
3:29:40You know, he's got his stature.
3:29:43He's part of the market.
3:29:44So, you know, he's a person of the planet.
3:29:48You know, he's a figure of the 7th generation.
3:29:5570 or so of us.
3:29:55There's a lot of different areas that I just came together to work on.
3:30:01I've been all the time.
3:30:01Not only you, but I know quite a bit of things that you have to go and prove in all these conferences.
3:30:15And I think we just got a class.
3:30:18You were far off.
3:30:22Seriously.
3:30:24fifth grade class that sent me a really fantastic birthday, and he came drawing for the poem, and I thought it was a little bit ridiculous.
3:34:09It's very evident that I should, that I've got to hurt myself for those conferences.
3:34:15And incidentally, I think I've got to hurt myself because I simply can't
3:34:23You can't be concerned about trying to be so keyed up and make every one be virtual so it sleeps together.
3:34:31I mean, I really feel about the local representatives.
3:34:33They've all been good.
3:34:34They haven't had a problem.
3:34:37I honestly believe if you could go out like this afternoon, I think I could have a moment to see with no briefing book, no preparation, and no even in your own mind preparation.
3:34:49You'd go out and say, okay, here I am.
3:34:51Turn on the cameras and have a brush counter, and you'd go all the way ahead.
3:34:55And we have to do that.
3:35:01There's always a possibility of a question that you're not prepared to answer, but I don't think that's a problem.
3:35:06Well, you know, just take, you can get around to a question if you're prepared to answer it.
3:35:11You can take credit for a lot of somebody doing a whole lot of effort, but that is all right.
3:35:15But you could allow some questions.
3:35:19And whatever was wrong with that one, some years ago, it was not there.
3:35:23It was not there.
3:35:34The problem on this international press conference, the question may not be just there, but it's going to the press, and it's going to be asked.
3:35:41And, you know, the problem is, go ask if there are any kids going on.
3:35:46I say, well, they'll get coaching.
3:35:48And they might be free then, but they'll get free.
3:35:52Journalism teachers, or whatever they have, their advice is that they're still papers, and they're pushing on that a little bit now.
3:36:01An analysis from a fellow like Thomas, who is part of the group, and grew up in the group, and all the rest, reads it first, and then writes it.
3:36:12who basically would like to see us win, and they're going to be struggling, and I think we need that, and it's a very important item.
3:36:21Well, yeah, I don't buy this culture change, and I completely agree with Jack O'Hill.
3:36:26A good part of what he said is not valid, but it's all stimulated, and it's just worth a review of that kind of thing.

Nixon, Colson & Haldeman on PRC trip and unemployment

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on January 11, 1972

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