Conversation 317-006

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He's like my big, rough friend.

First time he's had a long time with me.

Yeah.

I'm gonna call him.

He is.

He's really a guy that's here.

He does, and he's practical, too.

I, uh, you know, I was interested in how he talked about his work.

You know, like all those guys.

Yeah.

He ever could come to the level and leave a tree, and he said they get $9,000, $10,000 a year.

Yeah, but you know what I say?

I thought he was a really tough guy.

After we went upstairs, I said, you've got to help us with this.

We can rent a home going into the years.

He says, I've got that dumpster house.

He says, I've got all the paper dates in that place.

So he says, I've got all the workers.

That would be nice to me.

Don't worry.

Well, what I was going to say was,

And what we've seen here is something that pinches upon a bunch of the activities that we've directed responsibility for.

We'll have George and all others who are involved in this field on track.

Now, I think it's starting to change.

Pennsylvania is the state.

Hello?

Hello, Wilbur?

Where'd I find you?

Well, let me tell you, I read in my paper that you had some trouble with your back.

Is that right?

Do you think that's what it is?

Well, what I was going to say, everybody's got his own deal, but you've probably heard of this fellow Riley, Dr. Riley.

He does Rockefeller and the Chief Justice

John Mitchell and myself.

And as a matter of fact, I'd like, if it would be at all helpful, I'd like to have him go out there.

He's really a miracle worker.

All people in our occupation have backs at one time or another.

Oh, Nelson did.

I said, oh, no.

Yeah.

Yeah, that traction I tried once, it just killed me.

Oh!

Yeah.

I think the dude, if you'd like to have Ryland, to tell you the truth, he is a really well-grown miracle worker, this guy.

Right, and what I'll tell you what you do when you're here, he comes down to Washington, or he wins, and is available, you know.

I really would like to, he won't hurt you, I assure you.

Sure, sure.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

I will miss it.

Hi there, how are you, honey?

And how's your granddad?

Is he feeling better?

Well, you take good care of him, because we need him in Washington, okay?

Okay, honey.

Goodbye.

Right.

Well, she's great.

And I told her to take good care of you.

Your mother's there?

Oh, great.

Well, hello there.

How are you?

Well, I just want to say that I hope that the fact that

that you have lived to the age of six means that your son is gonna live just that long.

And I just was telling him that I had this back problem myself at the time, and I was trying to push a doctor upon it, but he said he was gonna wait to get it back to Washington.

It's painful, but it doesn't kill you.

Well, good luck to you, and you can be mighty proud of him.

Right, right.

Well, listen, that's fine.

And let me say, though, that I did, the reasons I raised this is that I, I was talking to John Mitchell, and I said, why don't you give Wilbur a call?

So that's what I'm doing.

When you get back, let me say, on a Wednesday, we'll get you late in the day, and you just gotta get the flip out of that.

You just never know.

You know, it's, I don't know what it is.

Muscle spasm, right?

You can't stand up.

All those things.

Right.

Great, great.

Well, you take care.

Goodbye.

Yes, sir.

Well, I was going to say, you're aware of the fact that in our national strategy,

I've always got to carry three of them in seven.

We only carry three of them except last time.

They're in California.

I don't know.

and all of them compared to 400,000 states, we get probably one out of three.

Texas would like to be there.

Nobody figured there's a chance in New York or Pennsylvania.

New York would depend on the box, we might get it.

But Pennsylvania, we could get there.

Pennsylvania would get, regardless of what polls you were having, for the reason that it is a state which is really dealing with crime in the state.

We have always run in Pennsylvania the wrong way.

Kennedy in 1960 and Humphrey in 1968 ran the right way.

They ran with the bosses.

And they were getting the bosses to work their ass off and do very well and lose a state bond.

They could not vote for people not twice in a row.

And we left the good people, the scum, all around.

Now, John, if we can keep wisdom, we can carry Pennsylvania.

You agree?

Sounds that way to me.

I don't think I will come out as well as he says we will.

No, no, no.

No, but my point is, I mean, if we can hold the loss, reduce it from 330,000 to 200,000, 100,000, we're in.

Oh, sure.

I mean, he's an extravagant, you know, state artist by the carry of the city.

We can't do it as well as he did, because we're not Catholic and we're not Italian.

But on the other hand...

We cannot carry Philadelphia playing the Scots line.

We cannot carry Philadelphia playing the Blue Stocking Liberal Republican line.

We can't carry Philadelphia playing the Negro line.

Now the same thing really applies, John, in many other cities and nations.

It's true of Cleveland.

It's certainly true of Chicago.

We've got to realize that we've got to do the Negro line because it's right.

We can't be in a position of being racist

But he is absolutely right.

We should go bouncing in their goddamn ghetto now, and trying to prove that we're pro-Nicotine now.

Now, I, uh, I, uh, well, many thought that, uh, it was a boo-boo, in part, if you ever intended it that way.

I'm inclined to think that Muskie's vote on the Black Lives matter was deliberate, and was extremely helpful to us.

We sit here in a fashionable Washington, D.C. area.

We're not from the state of Maryland.

They should have said it.

They should have said it on a mobile line.

Everybody's ready.

But on the other hand, the point here is that it gets across what they want to hear.

All they need is a little bit, and all they need.

In our case, the thing I want to give you is this, and I want you to keep it.

We clean cops at the university.

Don't let them off the hook.

And Annapurna keeps in contact with them.

The Democrats always work with whom I kill.

We mainly must keep people going, but must keep the polls going.

And that means that you've got to get a hold of Colson and have Colson dig out every liberal pro-busting or anything else statement that must be made.

Senator, you've sent them tourism.

Do you know what I mean?

You said, I thought you'd be interested in that.

an ultra-liberal statement Muskie made.

And the way he talked today didn't like Muskie, didn't like any of them, you know what I mean?

But the point is, the Muskie people are going to be smart enough to realize he's the key to the right, and he'll work their butts off to get it.

We've got to pour those pro-liberal statements in.

I mean, not the right white president.

He liked Muskie for that, but the bussing statement, you know.

And in Muskie's session, running down the cob,

repression, and so forth and so on.

Ask Colson to get every Pearl River that we can.

Get it to you, and you'll just put it with a little picture card on it and send it to him.

The tip is that the political assignment is the highest order.

We can get Pennsylvania.

We can carry it.

We've got to as insurers, because then you've got Pennsylvania and Texas and you need one more.

You ought to be able to get it out of Ohio and out of California and New York.

It's a tough, tough way to do.

I know the problem, John.

I know the problem.

We've got our middle-of-the-road liberal friends who feel so strongly that we ought to play exactly the other way.

Politically, forget it.

It just is not going to work.

This is a comfortable, tough, partisan game in those cities.

You're going to get those guys on the basis of buying them.

In this case, he'll go for personal reasons.

He feels he's my personal friend.

What's your brief?

Yes, but he'll also, he's got to deal with the handouts.

They're going to have to, they're going to have to come up with some numbers.

He's going to get this to Janet.

So do everything you can to help.

The housing thing is going to be touching and somehow or another we're going to have to block Romney out.

It's the same thing in Chicago.

They're in there, they want to break up these ethnic neighborhoods and put this low income housing in there and all that stuff.

Romney's going to be blocked out.

Maybe we have to take Romney's attention.

Well, I don't understand.

I would keep that on your head if I were you.

He's coming into office, I think.

Did he go with the church?

No, he told me not.

I talked to him right after that meeting.

And I just casually said, what did you get in mind?

Did you want to go with the church?

And he said, no, no, no, it would be a public service.

And he said, I want to come to prison.

And I said, maybe.

Did he want to be vice president?

No, I don't think so.

He said, it may very well be a higher code.

And I wasn't aware of it.

But I think, well, nobody could come to the Senate for government purposes.

Well, we'll make Mr. Rizzo number one.

I talked to Walter Hanover probably the night after he saw him.

That's the basis on which he let him in.

Walter, of course, is guaranteed.

That's right.

And Walter, of course, I think, will take care of it financially, in a personal way.

He must do that.

Well, we had a deal on with Walter that he would talk with Frank, and that if he got sufficient concrete assurances from Rizzo, then we let him in, if not otherwise.

And so Walter had that cut plate with Rizzo.

made the concrete assurances today.

Oh, sure, sure.

He said, Edmund, amazing.

He'd gone to me twice, that's true.

What the Christ did that happen with the goddamn Republicans?

Well, they were, of course, scared to death of him at that stage.

Yeah.

Because he was so hard on them.

He was caught.

That's right.

So they went with this awful nice guy, that's a long story.

Which, I think he got 47% of the hell of a raise.

Yeah.

But who did he get him from?

He got them from a non-Republican constituency.

He got them from the Israeli.

I know he got some Jewish ones, despite what this fellow said.

He just couldn't carry the Jewish ones like that.

Well, I got the...

I said, after he was in, I sent for the voting back.

Terry Dent sent me over.

I met James Boyd at the time.

But he's got a precinct back there.

I want you to take the printer right now.

Colston is very close to Pennsylvania Labor League.

They have been in the city.

You can talk to them about that.

One is the bottle workers, another is the building trades up there, and Eric had it.

And actually helped us enormously in Pittsburgh.

Now, with that, Pennsylvania can be had.

Pennsylvania can be had.

We've got to go for it, hammer and trowel.

When you ask me about Illinois, is it always any better out there or worse?

Oh, hey, I'm telling you, it's a little better.

I noticed that Les and a couple of other folks took it off on Percy this weekend.

There it is.

Yeah.

On the ground.

On the ground, but he was too complacent.

He wasn't running hard enough.

Percy?

Yeah.

He said he was going to have to start getting around working harder, or maybe he was going to get away from it.

I don't know why he did that.

He was scared.

Maybe they figured Percy was getting around the whole time.

Well, I don't know.

And Les has got some opposition.

But you know, they redistributed.

And I think they were starting to read.

You told me you were a dog to eat in the nest in the press.

He hasn't asked to come in here anymore.

No, no.

I knew he was going to.

His pension thing has got them all.

You know, they should.

They're too old.

He's over 70.

He's 76.

I mean, he's a lot older than I thought he was.

He's still got his marbles, but he's too old.

Yeah.

Well, the other thing I was going to tell you is that I, and I'm writing with the walkers, I had Paul for a break now.

He's on a plane, state by state, to the center.

I don't think anybody on our political staff has read it, but it's quite fascinating.

First point is, that is what we expect in the South.

In the South, unemployment over the last year has held its own, or have gotten.

In Texas, even, it can't look much better than only 3.2.

Texas is good.

Florida is good, despite all the problems you hear about.

And all through the South, it's very good.

California is improving.

To my amazement, I didn't know it.

I'd already seen it in the news.

But instead of seven points, which it was last year, it's now down to 5.9.

That's an enormous department.

That will not be reflected yet in Georgia.

They'd still be scared.

Within six months, it will be reflected in Oklahoma.

Another state that is improving is Oregon.

Oregon has improved, I know.

Washington has held its own, but no better.

But the whole West, California improved, and Colorado improved, and so forth.

So, looking through the West, and states where it is too bad, it's definitely in North Dakota, and so forth.

Now, on the other side of the Klein-Allender, Connecticut, New Jersey, and New York, and Pennsylvania have all gotten worse over the last year.

Today, the counterbalance in California has improved.

Ohio has gotten worse.

a little worse.

Illinois has held its own.

Illinois is getting the editing a little better, the shade better.

Point that.

Michigan's held its own.

Now, one thing that, if you look at the six-foot product unemployment, it is not an interest to us, except as it applies state by state, right?

So,

Apparently, our California project did some good, sir.

I don't know if you agree with that.

It shows you that we can do something.

Now I think you've got to look at the other states that we have, particularly Ohio and Illinois.

And I think on those, I think Pennsylvania is a state that we can do for this kind of a reason.

I think on climate, it's not going to make all that much difference.

If you can get Rizzo, you'll get Pennsylvania.

I convinced him.

I really convinced him.

Because I know what I'm saying.

I was in Greenville at $330,000 one year and $350,000 the next year, and I had just earned it in Philadelphia.

Well, God damn it, you can't have that.

This year, you're not going to have it.

Well, are you suggesting you have a very unpopular government?

Now, in New York, I don't know what you can do about that.

I don't even get many.

I didn't get any unemployment in New York.

Maybe it's just the malaise in New York City.

I don't know.

I don't either.

I don't know.

It's not.

It's 515.

Not as bad as California.

Well, you know, we've got this experiment there.

Rockport is beginning to move its welfare people into jobs.

Yeah.

Make work.

Yeah.

That may help some.

We're pumping a lot of dough into New York.

For Iraq?

For Iraq.

And into California?

Yes, sir.

But now, is there anything we can do on Ohio?

I'll find out.

We don't want to do a goddamn thing for Hillary next year.

Right.

But maybe the thing to do is to, that's why I asked about Illinois, is to, if you can't pump coal, maybe we better go to Illinois.

Well, let me find out.

Well, I don't think Ohio will work.

I have two senators from

We've got a strong congressional delegation.

And I don't think Gilligan is going to be that popular a governor by the time we get to the election.

I don't know.

I'll take a look at those.

And if these senators...

I don't know.

If Ogilvy is an awful drag, you know, and assuming, of course, it will be the case that they will come for whoever is the Democrat, it may turn out to be tougher than Ohio.

I don't know.

Hopefully, I don't know.

Appointment-wise, I could get you a fairly fast answer.

Oh, what that do?

Let's get the prospects, too.

All right.

And I'm damn likely the California thing is not a flip.

I hope it starts to do.

Or have you sensed that it was moving?

Oh, we know.

OK. Let's get that on.

I sent you the November numbers some time back.

They may not have gotten through.

They know the percent of improvement.

Well, this was in the Senate.

This was the figures for November and December for the whole country's state budget.

That's what I'm saying.

It was some underlying, that's right, the key states of the month.

But I analyzed them and came up with these different things.

Yeah.

But the whole economy shifted.

Well, that's right.

Now, we've been aware it shifted to California for a couple of months.

But it hasn't been anything.

It's shifted bad.

It's worse than New York.

It's a little worse than Pennsylvania.

Yeah.

much worse than Connecticut.

Well, you notice the key states.

I think I underlined, what, 10 or 11 states on there.

And there are three improvements, and the rest are negative.

The rest are worse off.

And so, well, let me say that things being worse off doesn't hurt you, but isn't too bad anyway.

Well, Texas is all right.

Florida's all right.

The other thing to look at is this thing you were talking about last week of the demographic breakdown.

Who is it that's unemployed?

Are they people that we're going to lose or get?

Or are they people we don't care about in a political sense?

And what you're running into in a lot of these places is, like New York, for instance, the heavy, heavy Negro teenagers.

Negro teenagers in Puerto Rico.

And middle-aged women.

Minority race women.

And New York being an incredibly expensive city to live in, there are just more and more New York women seeking extra jobs.

Your married heads of household are still in very good shape, still in the 3% range.

but we'll keep watching that.

Well, if you would take these figures and sit down with the political guy, with Colson, with some metro, you know, whoever you think will hold them, of course, and then let's see.

I got cold-blooded as hell and targeted him.

Now, we can be quite sure that Texas and Troy can't already go wrong.

I mean, they're so good.

In fact, the whole South.

Yeah.

Atlanta is very strong.

What the hell is the reason that the South is better?

I mean, you know what?

A part of it is I don't think so many Southerners... Of course, the Blacks will do menial labor in the South.

Let's start with that proposition.

And they won't do it in the North.

The second problem is the southern women are not the kind of women that go out and say they've got a second job.

That's true.

And I think that's part of it.

You have weaker union situations down there, which means that teenagers can get jobs easier.

The union thing freezes a lot of teenagers out.

So that has something to do with it.

I don't know the reason.

I'll have to find out.

Well, if, in addition to your domestic counseling, we take responsibility now for Rizzo, in addition to that, I'd like for you to take responsibility for developing a line which will appeal to Rizzo's constituency in other cities.

I passed it over to John.

I know I read part of it, memorandum of written case, and I guess you can't do anything to go along with that polyogon goddamn deal, except we ought to pin the label on the Johnson Charity.

Well, I think the line you took in the state of local control of local schools is simplistic.

It probably doesn't have very much meaning in the light of these court cases, but it's something everybody can understand and agree with.

And I think you can march around and say that on occasion.

Let's march around and say that, John.

Before the Democratic Convention, I have to be for a constitutional amendment or a legislative proposal, which the Democrats will have to oppose.

So it just works more than okay.

I didn't think we'd have to do it.

So they'll say, oh, polarize the country and divide the country, create racism and so forth.

I'm not so damn sure.

I think people think I'm way overrated.

And then interesting results, I think, that people, it must have been a straight black fight

Well, he hated the blacks.

His cops were up a lot.

They didn't know what he was doing.

They didn't even hang around.

There was a lot of police brutality.

He was so anxious to have me have a picture of him.

Well, he had announced to the press he was coming down here.

It won't do any harm to them.

What we said to them was perfect.

I said, we talked about the problem.

Oh, you had no money.

I was going to give you money.

We're not working these things.

We're going to find out.

You're going to follow up?

Sure.

And Dan Scott sent his A.A. down to see me.

All right.

You've got him set?

Yeah.

He's got to be able to go down there.

Now, I think what you have to do is...

without letting Scott in on the game.

Completely.

I think you better get Scott in and say, look, Rizzo wants to help move the military in the city, and we want to work with him.

We just want you to know who to look for.

Don't you think you'd better do that?

Or do you think you'd better?

You'd rather...

I don't trust Scott.

Not at all.

Every one of those...

I don't know.

Let me take a little advice on that before I talk to you.

See what the congressional situation is.

Well, how about letting him?

Checking with Annenberg.

That's where I would check.

And maybe do a third party.

That's what I was wondering about.

Maybe Annenberg.

Annenberg's probably got some money.

He's got a situation somewhere.

Maybe my guess.

And if he does... We have a loyal friend there.

You know, the reason he's loyal is for like this guy, the person behind the prison.

Well, he did something for Annenberg.

He stood up for him.

Well, I find it better...

When they came under vicious attack, we said, hell no, we won't withdraw your name.

That's the best thing we ever did.

I can answer that one.

I well remember that many around here wanted me to withdraw them.

You know, he's alive now.

His father was in prison, and I said, screw it.

I said, if you dare against him, he's not a member of the Eastern Society.

I said, I'm for it.

I recall you saying you also enjoyed the idea of seeing a Jewish ambassador who was part of St. James.

Kind of delicious.

Well, they had a Jewish ambassador here.

Yeah.

Great.

They gave us one.

We gave them one.

Well, Annenberg is tracking beautifully on this.

He's called me two or three times for signals.

He called me afterwards.

I let him know about this time.

He told me my word, that I would let him know after there was an opinion.

And after that, I wanted him to know you're just keeping him posted.

You know, he's grateful for the way you're doing.

And he called him.

I'm sure that everybody is working together.

Rocky called Saturday morning and he said, what's for you?

And I took the call.

He wanted to tell you how great he thought the stadium was.

He was always involved, you know.

How great he thought the value added idea was.

Down the line, he hit me for a few bucks going by for transportation or something like that.

So on, but he was in all for you.

He didn't need to return the call and all that.

But he did say that he had been to the Executive Committee of the Governors and that the Vice President had briefed him on this value-added thing.

and had thrown some cold water on me.

And so I talked to Rockwell a while about it.

Rockwell said, well, I went to the meeting all for it.

He said, I think that's the answer to the problem.

But he said, the vice president was saying some things that I don't think are right.

And so he asked me a few questions.

And it was very much the same line.

I don't know what we can do with it, John.

Whether or not it will float, whether it's going to be a sales tax or something.

Without getting hung up too much on a specific idea, it seems to me it's the old problem of the Vice President now marching to 102.

I wonder if I should go and talk to him about it and just say, this is the administration line.

We're all taking it.

report, necessarily.

He said, we're referring it to the ACIR.

We're not going to kill the baby before it has a chance to grow up.

We want to preempt it and keep the Democrats from occupying it.

Of course, the trouble is that I have eggs and it doesn't have any options at all.

But the credits he offered.

Well, that's, of course, the other thing.

And he said, well, in effect, I know his answer is

Well, you don't have to have an option.

The other option is to do nothing and say nothing and lie low on this and let the states work it out at the state level.

Now, Rampton of Utah came forward at this meeting.

He's running circles.

He's actually rebating the taxes issue, if you will.

And he says, oh, well, we'll just absorb these extra school costs at the state level.

We'll leave them.

I've heard that he would have fed it up.

And the vice president was saying, yeah, right, that's the way to do it.

And so Rockefeller said it was a bad, insane, you know, false signals.

So I think I've got to make an appointment with the vice president.

We'll see about this.

We'll have to handle that matter at the right time.

A couple of odds and ends here that I thought I'd better mention to you.

One of them is this business that was in the OER extension about legal services.

We got the idea of kicking legal services out of the government, so we weren't always in this problem.

The government's like, we're in it.

And the Congress came up with a version of the legal services corporation that would have denied you the ability to choose the board of directors.

The bar associations and the property deeds and all of us would nominate people and we'd have to understand.

The police court of our receivership?

Well, these, our board is saying

that we ought not to compromise on this, that either you appoint your board, or we ought to keep it in the government where we can keep control of the director.

The worst thing that we could do is let it out with a board of directors that we have no control over, and let it run rampant.

Now, my point of view up to now has been, tell us, get it out of the government.

And then, whatever it does, we don't have any responsibility for it.

But Krogh and Nordahl and our fellows have been following this argument.

That won't be perceived as far as the public's concerned.

That's just the government's legal services thing.

And we're stuck with it.

So they say we ought to take a tough line with the Congress that either they send down here a board of directors that you can appoint or else we'll veto this thing again.

Now, I haven't claimed to go wrong with their judgment.

I haven't claimed to change my position.

I thought I'd better run it by you, our audience.

It's one of those things.

I can see the point.

Your judgment has to be taken.

Did Bob ask you at all about Henry's talk with Laird about his security clearance?

The question here is, do you know of anybody who might have asked Laird for his military security bond?

Henry's security bond with Mr.

Well, I mean, Laird's playing a game of some kind here.

Trying to embarrass him?

Told him that somebody at the White House was after him and stole a credit security file.

And Pete Laird was going to keep it under lock and key, where Laird told me Laird would have access to it.

So I'm not sure.

Well, just reassure him so that he doesn't just pull a ship.

Is there a possibility somebody could recur anyway?

Well, I thought maybe you had, you know, maybe given somebody the assignment to get this thing under control and make sure that it wasn't kicking around the pentagon or something.

You know, Henry Clark?

Well, it was an old military file, you know.

When you go in the service, you have psychiatric examinations and all that kind of stuff.

He's probably been called the communist Trump from hell on earth.

Well, I know that.

Well, anyhow.

Anyhow.

I think Laird is playing a little sleaze game of Henry's, what's going on there.

But, uh, you're not sure about the game, right?

You're not sure about it?

Well, no, he isn't suggesting, but I do.

But ask Henry if he wants us to do something.

Henry's theory is that I have a connection with this Anderson thing, and Henry asked me about it, and I said, of course not.

And I said, you know, if I want to know anything about you, Henry, I would go to Laird.

Good girl.

Well, anyway, he, I can assure you I have nothing.

Okay, good luck.

Go ahead.

Well, that's all I have.

What about, oh, Don, did you cool him off?

He wants to sue Drew Kirsten.

Yeah.

He just, I don't know about the words, but you're going to tell both Don and Eddie that I'm not going to talk to you.

It just ain't done yet.

And not Don, not Donnie.

I just can't handle the problem.

I'm ready to serve the rest of the customers.

It's only trolling, and right now he's got to float.

I've been putting him off for months and months.

I know you are.

And you have the other ideas to him now.

We have Murray handling him.

Herb, I think, can handle it, and I'm going to get him back into a dirt combat.

I think Don will work with Herb as long as he doesn't think there's anybody else here.

Newton.

And so I think it's a pretty long order now.

He's got Frank Waters coming in this evening.

And he's on a kick of putting together all this chronology about the years long.

He's going to have a big press conference and all that.

Oh, shit.

Listen, Frank Waters, we all talked about that.

The loan was made.

Frank Waters talked about that.

And the other point about it is that I...

As I say these, I understand Holden says the statement, the brief's pretty good today, the 63 statement, points out this statement, the fact that goddamn a piece of property was turned over and out.

It was a lousy loan.

It should never have been made.

Nothing was ever done.

Hughes, I've never talked to him about a goddamn thing.

I tell you, the Hughes thing is breaking our way.

Because he's turning out to be such a phony.

Well, and you know, the magazine...

paid $625,000 to somebody who went to a Swiss bank and some blonde named Helga Hughes threw it out.

And the whole thing has turned into a fiasco now.

There's just no credibility in the whole thing.

So apparently this author threw an email accomplice and somehow got the magazine and McGraw-Hill and sent this money to Switzerland.

And Jesus Christ.

You're on the money now.

But there's one other thing on that, too.

Of course, he's never gotten out of it.

He's got to start the goddamn years.

Larry O'Brien kicked on it.

He was on the payroll for $150,000 or something.

That's never appeared.

Why not?

I mean, I did it.

Well, that's amazing.

Larry O'Brien and Hubert Humphrey's son-in-law was on it, too.

He was on the news payroll.

This is all news to me.

Oh, they're both there.

Roboso has the dope on that.

I won't give any thought to that.

I'm not going to company him.

Let me say, I'm not going to give any thought about it, because I can't do something about something that happened 15 years ago.

It was only an embarrassment to me, because, God's sake, they're made by poor, under-apocrate captains.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And Don was a dumb bastard.

They were trying to do them without question.

Without question.

But he's relatively under control.

And the beauty of the thing was that I went to California and I personally talked to my mother and said, you've got to sign a paper to return the property to satisfy this loan.

And she signed those goddamn papers.

She didn't need to.

That's right.

She didn't need to.

That's right.

But we did that.

And I said, you've got to give this to security.

That loan was made with no security account.

Yeah.

And I...

you've got to give security.

So we said, you've got to give the service station money, you know.

So we had to get my mother.

And of course, she didn't involve me too in any of it.

So here, I would either have about $60 bucks, whatever it was, but I didn't want it, because Don was in trouble.

Well, it's,

probably just as well with this law of services and this 100-year campaign.

Sure.

As a matter of fact, I had a feeling, I don't know how you feel about it, but the whole opposition thing seems to be peaking way early.

I don't know how it was in other generalities, but it's just super saturated with presidential politics right now.

I just don't see how they're going to do it.

He may just ramp it up by winning the first three primaries.

I don't think he will.

He'll win.

Of course, actually, he'll stand him alive.

In Florida, he's likely to run third.

He might run second.

But he'll run alive.

He is going to run first.

If he doesn't do that, that's going to hurt him.

And it comes with his confidence.

And then Pennsylvania, now Pennsylvania Security Center.

There, it must have gone away because of the pullback.

But if he's gonna get it, I don't know, there's one way you can say this, may as well have their, have their goddamn candidate, and that too.

I'd rather not, I'd rather have them have a hell of a fight at the convention.

I wonder if they hold it together and assume he does win three out of the first four, or two out of the first four, and he gets to Oregon.

You know, I will just do almost anything.

I already depend on it.

I sure do.

And California is another problem.

And I've done a lot of hard work in California.

I don't think some of these guys are just going to walk away.

I don't know who's helping to run a telephone agency, John.

Hubert?

I've got Gene Wyman sitting down there in LA with a bunch of dollars.

Hubert?

You've got Wyman?

Sure, not all of them.

The other guy's got a ton of transfer slated on him.

Well, we may decide that it's very much our interest, but actually we can tell them off.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, we don't play here.

We're very different.

We need trouble on the other side.

But I would say this.

I agree in one sense.

I don't care how well they do now.

They're running around.

because I know this, that this political activity at this time of the year doesn't mean a goddamn thing.

Al Romney, January 68, very glad to meet you, sir.

You know that, sir.

There's only half a room here.

Well, just as we began to get it in New Hampshire that I moved ahead, you know, and I beat the hell out of him, but he didn't have a chance there.

He quit, you know.

But there's nobody like that in the scene against this fellow Muskie.

Muskie, I think, has some weaknesses in the candidate, but, you know, you can look at it both ways.

Humphrey has got, despite his shuffle line, he's got one quality that Muskie doesn't have.

He's got brain.

I'm not so sure.

I think he's fairly bright.

At least on substance.

I'm not so sure how his instincts are.

I think his instincts are rather poor.

But I think...

didn't react quickly as Hubert would.

I agree.

I agree to that.

But maybe that's why I'm arguing.

See, they were boring in on him there, on affairs of the heart rather than the head.

I see.

And he was showing up in a subjective kind of sense, wasn't he?

What is our contingency plan for the way that this yeoman cracks?

Well, we're going to let it all hang out depending on how he cracks.

And if he goes, my present feeling is that he will go implicating the junk chiefs.

Because he's been saying on the phone to people, you know, I could get an awful lot of people at very high levels, at the highest level, in trouble.

But he says, I'd go to jail.

Now, who's going to be brave?

I think so.

He must have told Anderson this.

I assume not.

I assume not, but I don't know.

I don't know.

But he's talking to Anderson, and they got a little code written down, I think, where Anderson's guy, Cole, calls a number where this guy is and asks for Mr. Black.

And they say, well, we know Mr. Black here.

So they hang up and he goes out and uses a pay phone and calls Anderson.

And we do not have Anderson's tax, so we stayed away from that.

But we've got a lot of peripheral tax on, and we're picking up conversations among friends and so on.

We picked up one of the illicit love affairs, which is kind of interesting, which the State Department made some civil servant where they're using the back room of somebody's office

There's a lot of conversation about who's going to be key, and... Yeah.

We picked her up.

She's a Czechoslovakian descent.

Was in a...

is connected to this guy Carol, that I may have told you about, that's the yeoman's best friend the entire day.

And they talk a lot, back and forth on the phone, and she knows about the yeoman.

There may be a little... Well, we're trying to keep close tabs on this, and we're expanding our tabs every now and then, trying to keep a line on what's going on.

She has not

developed as we thought she might.

She had a very sensitive position in the State Department, extremely sensitive, and sees a lot of documents.

And when she turned up in this time, we got a lawyer, we got some care.

But now she's developed this boyfriend.

People say all kinds of odd things.

I'm the one that came through today.

The guy yesterday said... How do you get time to read things?

Well, we come in in the morning mail.

Is it just a report?

You just have somebody read a report.

Dave Young is keeping track of this.

Don't spend your own time.

I know Henry was horrible.

Oh, no.

Goddamn, it takes hours.

I've done this the whole day.

Dave is analyzing this stuff, and he gives me the important stuff each day.

A guy calls Carol.

And Carol says, well, Radford's been shipped out.

And the fellow says, has he been canned?

And Radford says, yes, sir.

And the fellow says, well, is the whole thing gone?

And Carol says, no, there's some left.

I'll tell you when I see you.

As if we've got several of these guys.

And so we've got another deal that we're working on.

Dave has got this all going.

Sunday, I'm going to give you a brochure, not one we've got anything definite to talk about.

Another yeoman, a baby, right?

In the Joint Chiefs apparatus.

But we're going to transfer him out quickly now that we've found the fact he may be gone now.

The answer to your question is, if this kid goes, then we're going to blow the whole thing.

And what are you going to say about why did he transfer?

We transferred him to get him into a place where there was no possibility of compromise.

We could not prove the case.

On the other hand, it was obvious that he was in the whole office of the United States.

Well, we tried to find a place with absolutely no sensitivity, where there would be no secret documents.

And there were only three or four places in the United States.

He's in one now where he's completely out of it.

Well, I think you're good.

We'll keep you posted on it.

Yeah, you're just part of it.

I think we are too.

Yeah, it surprised me.

And I think you have to know where those newspapers are in which case you're going to read that reaction.

The downtown people are poor, even though they all live out in the suburbs and send their kids to the white schools.

But they're poor because of the tax situation and the fact that the downtown schools are so bad.

You feel the state movement is the right one?

I do.

I was very, very pleased with it.

I had to be wrong, but I thought the rank tone that I thought you delivered was superb.

Everybody that I've talked to has commented on how easy you work in delivering that move.

I think it's something you want to think about for the future.

I wonder if it's the right thing or not.

Well, the Buchanan theory, which Bob talked more about, maybe the country doesn't really want that.

What they want to do is see the president out fighting for some activity.

Well, that doesn't have to be my style.

It's not my style either.

I mean, that is my sense of it for this campaign.

I think you're a strong... You take the price.

I think you've got to run as president.

You just run as another candidate.

It's a little bit like a guy who lays his gun down and says, all right, I'll fight with your weapon.

Why the hell should we fight with their weapon?

Well, we're likely to take some beatings.

But on the other hand, it may be in the long run that we'll, particularly, we can survive in Vietnam.

And if we will.

And if...

China and the Soviets sometimes come off as like they've been over.

We haven't buried just about anything.

I think we have to explain this to you.

Somebody wait for it.

No.

Is he in the field of border policy?

I don't remember my direction.

But I must say, everyone's

We are playing a game with you.

Without these two elements, you're mad at me.

Whatever happened to the production of Renaissance in the 19th century is going to change the face of the world.

And it just happens that we are the only administration in the world, and this is the only country in the world at this time.

Now, the China movement,

The reason the Russians are now playing a very forthcoming game on their side, and it is forthcoming as hell,

The Russians were going to control the sun, control your life.

They've gone exactly the other direction.

They want the area to get better.

They're working with the Chinese.

The Chinese want the area to get better and better.

Now this is a good thing.

Now,

and put us in a very powerful position.

It's sort of the position the British were in in the 19th century.

And as among the great powers of Europe, they always played weak against the strong.

That's what we're doing with the Chinese.

You see?

And that brings the strong to the ground.

Now we're, we can survive this now.

We have some, uh, some men's troops, right on the colonies.

We've had the Chinese, the Spaniards, the Japanese, the Russians, right?

And it wasn't worth it.

Let's hear more and more of that.

Those who write that basically are pro-Russian.

That's their real motivation.

Pro-Russian Congress.

The Russians won't let that out.

If we had not played the Chinese game, we'd be in a hell of a spot today.

The Russians, whether that or not, they wouldn't be on the ship.

They wouldn't want to do it.

And that's why we're here.

What can we do for them?

We can do something to them.

They know that the Russians, that America and the Chinese, they can't.

With the Russians outside, it's a hell of a day.

The American power, the Chinese manpower, gives us the balance of power in the world.

That's correct.

You think for one minute any Japanese government is going to give up this nuclear shield?

Maybe something.

Silly deal with the Russians.

They'll trade them.

Particularly not before they see how the Chinese sound.

The Chinese sound is not going to hurt them.

They're going to want to go to China first.

That's all right.

We don't mind if they do.

See, we're playing the Chinese for a difference than the Japanese.

The Japanese are playing them for themselves.

We're playing the Chinese because of the Russians.

Well, this is the game, and I understand totally.

I understand.

Roger will play.

I think he is.

I would tell us about it for the personal reason why we're just going to play the Chinese game.

And two, because

The other one was the State Department fine, Donald Trump's fine.

The other guy was saying, oh, nice.

Don't make the Russians mad.

So there's where we are on that.

But let's assume for the moment that we get through those two.

I don't think it's probably going to help us in terms of the public to impose the Russians.

We'll have to expect to do well in that field.

But when you come right down to the election,

I just wonder what the environment voters are going to think.

Assuming that the economy is not totally in order, they're going to think a hell of a lot before they risk the impossibility of, shall we say, some so-called generation of peace.

Would you agree?

I'd agree.

Why not?

The thing is cast as the beginning.

And you're confronting them with a hard choice when they go in that booth.

They're continuing it.

Exactly.

They're screwing it up.

Exactly.

And the only man who can continue it is the guy that knows it, the guy that's experienced it.

It's got to be the middle of the stream.

That's right.

You still have to cross the river.

A lot of running.

Oh, I know.

We're going that far.

We're going to keep a lot of them.

It's got to be cast that way, I think, as a good beginning, as something where there's a lot of... We have more work to do.

Yeah, yeah.

But that is bringing it this far as an act of consummate skill, of perseverance, of maturity in office, and those kinds of things.

I feel, incidentally, on the domestic side, that it's spying from a crack.

Yeah.

Yes.

He's a better spokesman.

Much better spokesman.

Much better.

Tom Lee, I think, took a couple of good licks this last week.

I like licks.

Incidentally, he is cooperating 100% with me.

I had some misgivings a couple of weeks ago.

And he had a good talk.

And there are no problems.

Just keep the close touch.

He's a cold one.

has to be totally informed at all times.

There's no problem.

That's going to be Flanagan's problem.

Flanagan must not even go to the can without saying, as in time.

I don't think that's going to help a lot of companies.

I know that's going to be quite a long problem in that.

What do you think?

Well, he's, you know, very disenchanted with the way Peterson had handled himself on this whole business and this whole comments department and so on.

I was working on the business of developing a presidential statement, which you told me I'm aware about.

Well, we changed the statement exactly the way the comments wanted it, and then made Peterson take it.

Of course, he did that.

So, we had a little hair-down session that Conley and I had with Peterson.

Some of the problems we were having with Peterson.

I think Flanagan is going to be a very good influence with Connolly.

Do you think so?

Yeah, I would think so.

Because I think Flanagan is a straight arrow, and trustworthy, and he will not try to make him run.

I think that's part of it.

Connolly never knew what Peterson's end motives were.

That's right.

I'm not sure any of us did.

Peterson, which helped us to extend time.

Yeah.

But just to serve you, I think that Connelly knows that.

He feels that.

Yeah, I think so.

So I think that we can have some sort of relationship.

But Dan Peterson, you know, like Cravengrass, he was running all over.

He was trying to trespass here and there and whatever.

And Secretary didn't have it.

but we're on good ground.

He's gonna deliver on this narcotics thing.

That's the next step.

He says, hell, he says, the president wants it, that's what he'll get.

He says, we gotta figure out how to get my bureaucracy around.

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

And there's no problem with time and such.

He said, the president wants that, and that's what the president's gonna get.

He said, we'll deliver.

Now he says,

You and I got to figure out how to get my bureaucracy from here to there.

I said, well, okay, Croke's available.

He knows all these guys.

So we called Croke in.

Senator Perry gave Croke his marching orders.

And he's off.

And I will tell you by the end of the week, we'll have him set up.

So he's in very good shape as far as I'm concerned.

As far as hell, they've been pledging his time.

He did so many deals.

Well, you might say something to him about that.

I did, and I tendered.

He had an objection to something earlier than it happened.

I forgot what it was, and I said, well, you know, you just call me.

Tell me what your desires are."

I said, we can, we can feel that from here a lot easier than your staff can, with the pressure.

And he said, oh, you guys got plenty to do.

And I said, now look, that's what we're here for.

And just let me know what it is that you need, and we'll get it done.

But if you would follow that up and say something to him by using this, I think he's a little relevant to do that.

Mopi has a serious medical problem.

He's had it before, apparently.

And it's an institution.

Psychic.

Yeah.

Yeah, you do.

But it was, it moped me very hard.

I know he's such an emotional man.

And so we sort of had a connection and spent most of his time at home.

This isn't all bad for that department.

If anybody's gonna run the department, he's gonna have a story to tell.

Call us on our information.

We're not in a hurry.

I checked with the company, and I was breaking up with them, and I called again, and I'll be back.

It's a sad thing, most things are wrong.

Apparently this happened right, and they're going to do the tutorial again next time.

Sometimes, sometimes what helps a person like this is getting a new life, something to drive for.

Can't think of any better time to do it.