Conversation 318-039

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Well, I want to chat with you about it.

Altaid tells me that you feel we should take Musgrave a little bit and send him out.

Only in a...

I mean, the... perfect grade.

I'm sure they'll let him on through.

No, but I could get a question planned.

No.

I don't think it'd be great.

Unless I plan.

I wouldn't plan.

Well, also, I had some questions.

It's not quite heavy on a star.

I think it would be on TV.

That's what they were planning on holding it up on.

It must be.

Because we are on fire, I don't know.

What?

Because they're very jealous.

You're aware?

Oh, totally.

In Ireland, a big crowd, 25,000 people, they're very jealous.

Here in Dublin.

So that's a big story.

But in any event, Muskie's charge will come with the honor.

If we respond to it, on the one hand, we face the risk of hypo, and that's the White House, and it's Muslim.

On the other hand, it lays out the fact that, look, these guys just don't look at it, and they're not accepting it, they're rejecting it, and they're not loyal to it.

I personally think it's an awfully good plan to make.

That's a good vehicle to make it, and make it now, because tomorrow may be too late.

We want to make this, taking into consideration those possible negatives.

I think this is what I should have called it.

I'd say, well, all right.

Apparently the Senate just hasn't.

I'll say, the critics I've seen who take an issue with the President's proposal simply haven't.

as far as I can see, studying the President's proposal.

And I just suggest that Senator Muskie do his homework.

And then go to the ceasefire.

Then at the end, that wouldn't be what was quoted.

Then at the end, say something like, it's unfortunate Senator Muskie has received an objective request from the President.

The President should be able to do his work on the other side.

And it's this type of criticism and statements such as this that can only complicate the progress

on the very core mission, which is basically a groundbreaking work.

You know, I'd say the type of work that's done at Dodge and the company, I think I'm gonna say it in a second as well, the question is whether you can get as much out of Ron Dillian and the way that would be, whatever.

The way we talked, he came down from Scaling and took out my little memorandum.

I was just talking to one of those guys.

Somebody had to be prepared.

What they've done, four, basically covering all these points, four minutes, four short pieces for four senators, so they've dropped up there, and we're not so far getting any amounts up and down.

Well, we probably won't.

The Muskie story itself is still not getting a major amount, so it's front page.

He was badly chewed up by the reporters afterwards.

And what was his proposal to get out and how did he get that waffle and things?

And what was the judgment of your people involved?

It comes down to that if we want to make the issue, that it's only a middle-level issue, probably.

It might move up higher.

But on TV, Scaliger wrote NBC and ABC to see how they were playing.

He thought they both played a good story because it was the prime president and then they're taking on the president and all the parties.

That's what I thought.

None of them are.

The Irish bombing has taken the lead.

completely because they've got good satellite pictures of the Silicon Valley, and it's a very good TV story.

So that's the big story.

And this is on ABC, and will be the fourth or fifth story, if it makes it, and they were just putting the show together, and Scott Huffman said they may not even give it up.

NBC, Charlie Chancellor, the Chancellor said it would run, he talked to Paul, and Eric gave it up.

Third performance.

What about Paul?

Well, let me finish on there.

Their argument then was that we probably, that we still have a good issue to make by, and that we should make it, and the way to make it is with Rodgers, but with Rodgers on television, not with the statement that's just passed out, that you need to go on there.

Same, same tough stuff, but primarily making the point, the big point that he can make to lead off with is the, you know,

It's a tragedy when an American, when a member of the United States Senate rejects the President of the United States speech proposal before the United States, before the enemy even rejects it at the party.

While the enemy still has it under consideration.

And then go on from there on the satisfaction of those who got us into this war and now sabotage our members to get us out.

Put some, get Bill just some pretty good stuff in.

Scallion thinks Bill will.

He's arguing that the way to do it is not to do a press conference, but for Bill to walk in, in a sense, kind of mad, and to the briefing tomorrow, with the cameras there, and say, I have a statement.

No, sir.

Say, I have a statement I'd like to make.

The only problem with that, I agree with you.

The only problem with that is that he missed tonight's meeting.

Well, maybe.

That would have...

the other thing is uh maybe we also may be the other thing is

I wonder if basically these guys are British.

Or Dole.

Dole has, Brock has, what do they say?

They're saying they're picking up these lines, basically the same stuff that Brock does.

Let that ride at this time.

Okay.

Yeah, just say, well, I frankly haven't had a chance to...

If you want to keep it riding, you don't need to keep it riding.

Bill comes in on it tomorrow.

That'll get it back up.

Just say, I...

We may want to not comment on it every time a presidential candidate makes a jackass statement.

On the other hand, your point is that it may be an opportunity to get the chance to move this.

On the other hand, it may be, too, that one of his Democratic friends is going to win.

Well, you know what Mansfield's done.

That's the other beautiful thing for Rogers.

Mansfield has been drawn, has sitting, has been drawn to Mansfield because of the President's peace proposal.

But that puts Muskie in a bad spot.

Well, then, don't hypo at our point, and nobody else today, with Muskie.

I'm inclined to think that Bob, with your intuition, you don't feel that you have to come up with certain rules.

That's a little shaky of us.

In my view, it's a little shaky.

If you don't do it, we're running a pass.

I don't think you can cover the mark.

You really think so, Bob?

It's my view.

Well, you don't think, in other words, I think, I think we've led the past in a cycle unless he starts saying this again.

Well, he has to go on saying it again.

Doesn't get me again what you thought you'd say.

Maybe, uh, I always have a theory about what you've got to, or as soon as the story goes away,

If I say this, I open this up.

I see.

They won't let me reply to this part.

They'll drive me into questions on it.

Well, has the President gone on the scene of the withdrawal?

The President should be able to have all the answers.

But they won't let me get away with attacking without coming back and putting an attack towards us.

Our guys have done a pretty good fact sheet on the inaccuracies and all that.

Yeah, well, let me put it this way.

Don't find it wrong.

If it comes up, then I would just as well be here as much as possible.

In other words, I had this withdrawal going on.

Yeah, you can use your judgment.

If they get a little bit rampant, you can sort of say, well, now, they push you into it.

They push you.

You shouldn't be looking for it.

You should say, look, it really isn't worthy of comment.

I think you might say it really isn't worthy of comment.

But you can say it really isn't worthy of comment because Senator Obama just re-entered his home.

And then they did drive you in and out, and then they'll say, well, poor example.

And then fire, and say that.

And then say, it's really ironic that those who supported the policies that got us into this war, now since I've been talking to the others, the President gets out.

I want somebody, Bob, to say at that point, sometime, I guess they had him,

I don't know.

Why don't you leave it up?

It may get picked up.

What are you saying on the Irish thing?

I don't know.

I think we may force it on them.

It gets much worse.

They burn bananas.

I mean, there were two of the Irish.

The Irish basically are, of course, they're all of the British.

Well, okay, I'll be, there'll be a hell of a lot more Irish countries.

All of them.

I think we'll play it around in sort of a media thing, and however it comes out, it'll be all right at the time.

But now they offer each other a question.

If the question comes in, that happens.

Well, I would say it's really, really, it's, I don't know, I think it's really so inaccurate that it really isn't.

We're just coming into a minute.

They draw me out every now and then.

Yeah, that's probably fine.

I know it's a compliment, but there'll come a time.

Well, that was my judgment, you see.

I do feel this, as I look at the other people coming around the country, that we have not had them in our group.

They've watched better than we have.

Yeah, well, we've got to keep driving.

In fact, we've got to keep doing it, because we've got opportunities.

Now, for instance, Bill Rogers is on Facebook or something, you know, and he can't avoid questioning us, and he's got the opportunity there.

We want to be open at that time, and we should.

He can move down tomorrow morning, and we see what Musk gets tonight.

I don't believe that Ron's right.

I don't believe that he'll come back tomorrow.

Sorry.

Well, it's a continuing story because they're not just one-shot men.

They offer a lot of other muskies things.

They're also working heavily on column stuff and all that, but Macdon's story is just ridiculous.

The piece, the release he put out, it was all botched up.

It was typed on three different typewriters that didn't hurt him.

Sure, it was slapped together.

and hurry, and you know, get into the shooting from the hip and panic.

I wonder, uh...

He bombed out in Arizona and was trying to, trying to save himself, and panicked.

All this kind of stuff.

Well, we've pumped a lot of this stuff out already.

Sure, but the points were not autonomous and that sort of thing.

So we'll get some more.

Well, okay.

That's about it, right?

Well, let's let it go today.

My view is to let it go today.

I don't think we're going to lose it.

We'll lose a little mileage, and the muskie may get something of a free ride tonight.

I'm not sure that's bad.

But the Manskeel story rides tonight, and they'll have to carry that with the muskie stock.

As a counter, they may carry it.

What's been on all the wires, they can't even go up there.

Well, he tried.

He just gives you full credit for what he says, partly because of the President's decision.

But that's the way people read it.

And that, after saying for a couple of days he was going to keep it in, would show that

As he's thought your proposal over, he's decided to go along with it.

Whereas as Musty's thought it over, he's decided to shatter it along with it.

And who comes out ahead on that?

I think it's you and then you.

You know what I'm saying?

I thought it would be useful to get our view of this whole political phenomenon

On the policeman story, you asked about how it was covered.

I wire stories from the P.O.S.A.

attending both Foster's and Laurie's P.O.S.

for Murphy, the police commissioner, Mayor John B. Lindsey, and Marine Corps Major John B. Brennan, the White House aide representing President Nixon.

Those are the three guys that attended the funeral.

Well done.

It's the same as the other 78 people you asked.

They also said that you should not make the phone calls.

Why didn't I?

I thought letters shouldn't go.

They've gone.

Branson took letters.

That's what I meant.

Both widows.

And he said one of them was obviously dope and was completely just made it three times, passed out three times, had the camera on him.

The other one is pretty bitter against the police force.

He thought you should not have let him in.

Hello?

Yeah.

Oh, Pete, I wanted to be sure you were aware of the fact that on that business of the trade and so forth, that, you know, that fuse and MRI and so forth, I talked to Common a little bit.

The most important thing they had in mind

But, of course, Peterson can't say anything.

He can't have anything quite else that he ever had in mind.

Do you understand?

The second point is that I want Connelly to do a little course on this.

He is the preceptor of this whole thing.

After all, it's all tied into his package.

Well, that was a long memorandum by Peterson.

About two pages of Peterson's letter to Peterson.

That one.

But I just wanted you to be sure that I talked to Conley and I said, oh, this is the way to be done.

And if Conley doesn't rise and go over whatever he wants to do, I'm afraid he should present the whole thing.

He is in charge, and he should shut up and sort of go to work together and accomplish each other's goals.

The short-term state of the country was trying to work out getting the gun bunkered.

About each other, so you can do it, you can do it right after .

Okay.

And more, tomorrow afternoon at 4.30, suggesting tomorrow we'll be over here for a verification, so we won't create a disturb.

We're just going to be over here .

Fair enough.

Lay low on that one.

And that will only give you half an hour to go to that reception.

Okay, and he's suggesting that you telephone President Lavuz of Argentina.

Who?

You.

Henry.

Our ambassador of Buenos Aires says that Lavuz has requested a telephone conversation with you.

the subject of the Argentine financial issue, which came in yesterday.

And he goes through all the jazz about, you know, what we're doing, you know, the press for favorable action.

Well, no, that has to be done by Congress.

I just don't, I'm not going to get into that, and I'm just going to, the President of the United States can't call that.

And he says, if you don't want to talk about this, he can explain to the Minister of Justice who he's meeting with on Friday what he couldn't call.

I can't, I'm sure, but for the best that it will be.

Secretary Conley, who is totally in charge of this, will call on my behalf.

In other words, he's totally in charge and has the power to act.

He can't get involved in calls, but it's true.

I don't care about his state of the world.

Do you want to do a short radio talk on that?

Radio?

I don't mind.

You did a 10-minute radio talk.

I think that's better than walking out and trying to do something.

They're running two days in advance.

It won't work that way.

It won't hold.

and do a radio talk about it.

It's a little bit of that day, but shorter.

Yeah.

That would be the idea for a draft.

And then something that's, that's Sapphire.

I mean, I don't know.

Be sure that Sapphire, the Lord writes it, but we've got Sapphire on the writing for Bob.

Sure.

So we've got a simpler...

And that day, the day we had scheduled the combination breakfast with Kevin and the leadership, there's some questions as to whether that makes the other thing look less partisan or something like that.

I don't see any connection.

I mean, what policy?

You just don't.

He builds it.

That thing doesn't arrive on its own in the cabinet leadership thing.

There's no strength as part of the business.

It never does.

It does because it's a totally different... No, no.

It's the state of the world when you get a geological flag.

Which will be, you know, an editorial piece.

Not that it isn't a hell of a good shot, but we don't even know if it's just one of those things.

It's that big.

The other thing was on Florida, it checkered and it weathered.

Friday it would be cloudy and warm, which scattered showers, but 80 to 84.

And Saturday and Sunday, partly cloudy and cooler, down to 71 to 75.

And it does shift to an orderly wind on Saturday.

So that's what makes it difficult.

I made a passive response in the same millennium.

I mean, Camp David was going to be, of course, cold.

I don't believe I want to schedule anything.

I think that's business like the ones they like to do, like the pre-day.

Like today, I've gotten a lot of them.

I wrote a letter to the four governors, and I wrote to the folks, you know, something like the governor of New Jersey, a lot of them, you know, things of that sort.

I've got to have time sometimes to do this, to do that.

So that's all now.

Okay, we'll keep this one, can't we?

I don't think there's much at this point, Bob.

It's both back here

If we were holding it, if you were here on Friday, did I say tomorrow?

It's not tomorrow, it's Friday.

If you were here, just walk in at the last minute.

I guess what I'd like to get out of that is to get my job done.

That's what it hurts with those numbers.

Let's try to, uh, you know, try to use, like, a little, uh, I think, uh, I think I'm not quite ready to be used.

But, we've got a lot of, uh, people-type possibilities.

We're going to look at, uh, March 8th, uh, starting some good and some bad.

Billy Graham called to say not to, uh,

I think we should delay a little anyway, never announce anything.

The more I think of the unscheduled meeting types of investments anyway, you've got to get a chance to revamp your elections with it and so forth and just flip in and get out and do it on the basis of another way.

Billy did urge that you also consider the Southern Baptist Convention, which is in Philadelphia.

That I might consider another, that I might consider, I don't know, a possibility.

You said you'd have to weigh the political question.

It's in Philadelphia.

Do you have any way you want to go into Philadelphia?

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Because the Baptists aren't really in Philadelphia.

That's the wrong statement of a Baptist convention.

That's the problem.

Another thing on that Dallas thing is that that's right at the time that Rotary International is going to be in Houston.

So Rotary International is better than the kids.

It's better than the kids in Dallas.

Well, it's going to Houston.

I think Rotary International

There's a hell of a lot of military officers and their leaders.

Their leaders at the middle level, they're the level plumber.

They'll give you a, they're mainstream.

They give you a little damn good reception.

Now they're like the J.C. We go to the O.S.A.

We saw them coming.

Oh, I heard them.

Five.

You can never do a local worker.

I've done every local worker in the world.

and lie, and go on, and exchange, and optimism, and serotoninism, and all those things, and the heart of the wheel.

I'm going to go over some of these, our latest work, and the full results of that.

Now, as I understand it, we've got our last telephone pole, whichever previous pole was it, telephone or person-to-person?

The third or the 20th.

They're both telephone poles.

We haven't done any national.

Well, that was state-by-state.

We haven't done any national or personal.

Now, the state-by-state stuff is personal.

They're in the process.

Oh, I see what you mean.

That one thing, the last national thing that I mentioned to you, that's my personal interview.

I don't have any of the breakdowns.

I've got the key states.

I don't have the rest of the states.

That's what this stuff is.

It's starting to come in bit by bit.

What I've got now is the work.

They've got key states with a few examples.

They don't.

They're taking big samples in each of the key states.

What they're doing is doing a series of state polls.

Then they're taking a few more interviews to fill in the rest of the country.

You had our, give me the trial leads after the speech and the trial leads in that period before.

That would give me some indication, although you said it would change the mix up.

The trial leads after the speech.

With Wallace, Muskie was 46, 32, 13.

Without Wallace, 52, 36, 12.

In other words, yeah, we picked up a little more than Muskie did in Wallace.

Hard, Riley, before that was November 19th.

We lost the national college.

At that time we had, I guess it must have been 40, 33, 16 who lost.

And 45, 39 who found lost.

But I thought you said you also had a poll paper.

What is that?

Is that just a combination of these states?

That's a combination that these states wouldn't have built because they would run that.

Well, anyway, that was all I had.

That was just somewhat the same.

It wasn't a hell of a lot different from this one, as I recall.

That's right.

It had gone up to pretty close to this, which is curious.

That's right, I got it in my mind when I see what she has to do.

In other words, what she had before at this time didn't show a great deal of change.

But it did show some change in the mix.

Yeah, yeah.

And it showed a substantial increase in dendritic drop in women.

A drop in low growth and an increase in lung cancer.

Is that comparing to early January and late January?

No, that's no better.

That was no better.

We don't have a break on early January yet.

We'll get it, but I don't have it yet.

The early January polls, those that were benched by polls, are first-in-person polls.

Now, what do you have on those at this point?

What I have now is kind of the details on New Hampshire, Florida,

Wisconsin.

Yeah, that's what the ones they let first on board the car race, because they wanted to get the report, the potential one for the reports on the guns.

And now he's plus Kentucky and Illinois.

So we've got five states in, and that's, you know, complete details of all kinds of great guns.

This is done by Teeter.

Well, it's done by various polling organizations, but Teeter's specifications, they all use the same questionnaire, the same sample design.

And then right after the last competitive poll, we showed that we were getting that name California.

We haven't yet done our own in the West yet to know how to get that, although we will have it.

I'm not sure exactly when, but...

Not far down the way it happened in the other state of Florida.

I gave you that earlier.

We talked a little about New Hampshire.

That's a young man.

Comes out very heavily.

This was a bashful kid.

Yeah, well, he wasn't.

He had not declared it, but they put a building in anyway.

They expected it to be there, and they did.

But what if it was out of practice?

That's where I made an entry.

I see everything, but all the general

I'll let it go.

I don't think it's that important.

What about the legislators in Florida?

Take the general, skipping how they stack up in the primary, New Hampshire was the one that went through the thing, you know, how we added votes.

Well, New Hampshire was House of Florida.

We went through all three of them.

what you picked up on with McCartney on and with Wallace on.

But looking at the trial leads in those three states, in New Hampshire, on a trial lead basis, it's 51-44 against Muskie without Wallace.

With Wallace in, it's 50-41-5 for Wallace.

And when you put all those libs in, it's 42, 32, 43, 32, 9, and there are currently two for Chisholm and four for Longs.

But no matter how you slice it, except when everybody's in there, and even if it's 10, I'm decided to say you can come out at about 50% in New Hampshire, a bit above the floor of 50%, no matter how you put your guy on.

Sure.

No matter how.

In Wisconsin, we came out behind.

That was 41-53.

46-46 against 100.

42-52 against 100.

Behind and all over the place.

The tide was 100.

46-46.

In Florida, it was 55-34 against Muskie.

55-33 against 100.

With Wallace in against Muskie, it's 44-27-20.

Wallace makes up a big chunk.

And he holds the point against anybody.

In there, even when you get down to putting all the lives in and Wallace, you get down to next to 37.

Musty 18, McCarthy 9, Chisholm 4, Wallace 17.

Wallace is about as low as Musty.

Well, that Florida one is very symmetric in terms of the south border states.

And we have a lot of detail on Iowa as well.

Iowa is part of the United States.

Let's not go into that.

Now, what do you have in Illinois?

Do you have that?

Yeah, just at the end of the day.

This is Peter again.

They do a lot of stuff like they do on the state issues, vice presidential, yeah, possibilities.

This one was because it was the local poll.

It was taken in October.

But it still follows the same pattern, so that we can blend it into the other data.

October.

They show...

In the summer, they show an autonomy.

some of our girls are in Illinois, greater than 68 showing 50% against Muskie, Hungry, or Kennedy.

Slightly more than 50 against any one of them.

With Wallace on the mound.

That doesn't say, well, I suppose about 6%.

How could that be?

How do they figure that one out?

That's a hot topic.

That's taken by us.

You don't have your figures there in the crowd since Illinois?

Yep.

Of course, you'd have to do reasonably well in a state like Illinois in order to have those national figures that you come out with.

You have to have something that is

And that's about it.

I think I do have a job this year.

Yeah, they did it with Vice President Stinson Agnew versus Husky Jackson.

It was 46-40.

Oh, I was getting six.

I'll tell you, it was 45-36 before I was getting six.

Kennedy was 45-39 before I was getting six.

About the same as the National, it was 36.

I don't know what period it was.

and I'd be on that street.

Your picture and Wallace's style aren't your own computations.

A lot of people are.

They're lower-figured in both ways.

Depends on what I mean.

What I meant is your judgment.

It's an interesting thing.

You just never know.

They show it out, I just say the demographic patterns follow the traditional party going here.

The big variation is a huge Catholic vote for Muskie, 74-41.

While against Humphrey or Kennedy, among Catholics, Nixon wins 43-37 against Humphrey and 44-48 against Kennedy.

But it must be from 74, 2174.

Right.

The church would have to do something with it.

And how the hell do we compensate for it?

It must compensate someplace.

It would still come out relatively the same.

Yeah.

All right.

See, Wisconsin's a more Catholic state.

That may be the Wisconsin story, too.

Wisconsin's a much more Catholic state than the one we see in Wisconsin.

Do you have a Connecticut, do you have a Connecticut one?

We, that school was, we still go to Connecticut.

We had one long ago.

They may have a local one.

Yeah.

Must be like blues and some other things.

Well, there's just too much material right now.

What I should, what I really want to see at some point, I don't want to be, you know, see it as a worry about what I have in my mind during the schedule.

You know, where there's types of people and everything else, where there's a Catholic thing that we're going after and everything, and we'll compensate for it all the way back.

Well, it's clear we're going to have a must-go.

Yeah, given that one place is in the indication.

This is going on.

There'll be a whole lot of issues there.

We'll have to do as you say.

In other words, .

What would, is that what your purpose now?

The purpose now is to take these polls in January so that you can have a benchmark, is that correct?

That's all we've done.

None of these have been taken.

None of these are going to reflect the January 1st speech.

They don't need to flood the city or anything.

But they're all before any action in the year.

Take them and check them.

That's right.

In a way, we can say, at least as of now, they report the load because they're after the bombing.

True, but you know your national numbers were practically the same.

Yeah.

The Wisconsin on the cap was, Wisconsin had 41-53 next to Muscogee.

Yeah, it was Muscogee.

Among Catholics, it's 29-64.

Where Humphrey gets next to 46-46.

Among Catholics, it's 35-57.

So the Catholics go with Humphrey to the Democratic-Catholics.

Humphrey only.

Muskie only gets seven points more than the Catholics and Humphrey doesn't.

Kennedy is 30-64, same as Muskie.

So there the Catholic thing is a different situation than the Illinois Catholic thing.

Catholics are the difference.

I think our status is 52 to 43.

I think Catholics are not as big a percentage in Illinois as they are.

Ohio has a pretty good Catholic population.

That's what they never do.

But there, we've got to win that one for other reasons, you know.

In the state of New York, you know, where we're not well-off for other reasons, too.

We don't have a rather popular government.

They have the Colton Senators.

The Laird is gone, you know what I mean?

It's an old, bad state.

But it's got to be, we've got to go after it.

I think Wisconsin could be turned around and shoot themselves.

Lucy, they give Lucy a 51, a 32, physically.

Proxmo, I think it's a 79, 12.

Nelson, 74.

Yeah.

That's their strength.

taxes is a big problem.

I think this move on the parochial schools is so essential for the Catholic and anything like that to help them.

That's what they say.

It's strange to think about that.

Mixon gets a lower ability to handle trading and all the issues that need to be addressed.

The lowest trading speed on the rail is tax-exempt on the general address.

Highest on Vietnam education, health care, and education.

Personal, personal work and stuff, because it comes out very well.

Thank you.

See all these, they've got to put all this together and then look at where it moves, which is all that we can imagine.

But later on, as we look at whether you're high or low, we've got to look at whether you've moved up or down.

And getting there, you're always low.

Coming back to the puncture we were making earlier, though, the puncture made,

There isn't any question in my mind about the, on the mustard thing.

We have about killed, and he has slipped.

I think that is what has happened, rather than anything else.

What would you say?

We've picked up a little, but, you know, the last name, 4632, has to be, wouldn't you agree?

That's substantially different than Gallup.

Yeah, 43, 42.

And Harris.

42, 42, yeah.

That was both of those.

Harris was right over here.

They usually got very involved.

Gallup was even greater.

Both of those were at a relatively, shall we say, weak point.

I would think if we had a weak point, it was that truck.

But we've been pretty close, fairly close to Gallup.

Gallup is generally pretty cold at the same time.

I'm proud to see the shows.

He showed walls we've been able to do.

And musculoskeletal.

Like in May, he choked 39-41 against Muskegon.

He choked 38-40.

That was our role playing.

Well, Harris had some ability.

You know, January, February,

R4, we're going to do a good check.

We're 43-36.

We're going to do a good check.

I don't know what the hell happened to me.

I don't know what's going to be about now.

R showed 41-35, Harris showed 40-42, shows behind.

Gallup is 39-41, shows to the good line.

August, Gallup, that is coming back up, 42-36.

September, 41-37, Gallup.

October, 42-35, about the same.

It was just so beautiful, I couldn't let it pass.

We have to rat it.

No.

The rat said, you haven't been counted on.

He said, you haven't been counted on.

He said, uh-huh.

He didn't want you.

What must he do?

He said, it was a simple way to do it.

Probably.

I said, probably what?

I stopped for a moment and thought, I'm mistaken.

I'm not sure.

I said, I've looked it over.

And I invited him to the speech over and said, well, I don't think it's really worthy of comment.

I'm just suggesting the Senator should be told.

Period.

Well, then later on, Bolson came back and he said, now, normally, you don't make statements with that type

So then I went on, and it was a whole kind of low-key, but it still, I was able to, through a question, and then I applied it to critics.

But many critics who are making statements apparently have not read the President's proposal, which is resolved at one point.

You know, I took a piece of ceasefire and all this, and I had it contained at most of the world.

And referred to the 1970 ceasefire versus the ceasefire in the village.

And I referred to the fact that the current platform is not called for me.

It's for all of the American police forces to get to, you know, before the military.

Then I used the line.

I said, it's unfortunate that

Some other critics, including Senator Muskie, seemed to reject the U.S. Supreme Court's proposal.

So I had to come out.

Then, one thing that I couldn't help but handle, are you suggesting that Senator Muskie's political motive in saying, well, I said, well, I think that this is not the time to do a bipartisan

But the whole thing was so low-key, you know.

And they said, are you speaking for the president?

I said, well, I'm speaking for him.

Which means this totally ruined the building.

I didn't use quotes from you, which I just wanted to find.

I said, sure.

Good.

That was fine.

We'll have quotes on the water.

I had a sense of that.

Maybe a little.

No, I don't think so.

He'll crack it.

Well, really, not that speech is terribly irresponsible.

Well, I said, it seems to some degree somebody had not studied it and had moved over out of reality and are addressing the situation based upon unreality.

Good.

OK. Good.

You asked about the Irish fire.

All right.

I think of it.

They've been worrying so much about building momentum, this very carefully spaced endorsement program.

They've obviously got this planned out, and I can see the thing in there.

They've got this plan all neatly laid out, which you tend to do.

And then something comes along to disrupt it.

Like when the president gets up and launches a peace plan, and everybody starts jumping around.

And you begin to wonder where you are.

And then they may have heard that Pence was going to drop this amendment.

Somebody's got to leave the thing.

You've got to hang on to the left.

The guy, particularly after Lindsey and Muskie did so well, showed that they think there's a hell of a lot of appeal in the peace plan.

They're not doing this because they, you know what I mean?

And then he got kicked around in Arizona, and that's been his thing.

I'm sure he would find out, because the press has let him take out the chips that he should have.

To a good extent.

They protected him pretty well.

He did do quite well.

There have been a lot of stories that say he did badly.

Are there?

Yeah.

Columnist analysis.

And their people do the same thing.

Our people do the same thing.

They were our people.

They read the goddamn obsequies.

Exactly right.

And don't listen to judgment.

They don't worry about the wrong thing.

It's like our guys got a name.

They worry about every name.

And that's why it is important getting some column stuff going.

Well, but it's important for our people and the attacks.

The album stuff is worth something, not because it reaches any people.

It actually screws us, actually.

Just as it screws us up.

You know, our people get, we get one white man who gets all excited about the $1,000 little thing.

There was a No Ray Margaret column or something.

No Ray Margaret, I don't know if you know that.

No, but it really is.

Commonly, you know, we're talking about New York.

It's even a bus residence now.

No Ray Margaret.

Thanks, Benway, I appreciate it.

to say that you're going to get in a little bit of trouble with Peterson.

Because he was at the party that Peterson had for the drink.

And I saw him.

And I saw him there.

I think Peterson, he had a little tendency to, you know, well, I did this, and Senator, you know, I mean, all that bullshit.

Well, he's not going to get away with it if he gets over there in Congress.

Just the place where I'm going to be.

and then get them off the road.

You know, in terms of the planning, I was thinking along this line, I wonder if in the March and April period, we ought to think more of maybe going to the countryside.

We're not worried too much about that.

But not concerning ourselves so much with the

national television play, and all the rest.

But basically, it sounds like a return to the old fashioned stuff.

Basically, trying to remove the movers and shakers, the audience

You know, we get this impression, I know you say, well, you're not going to get all the work of the week.

You know, that can affect people, that kind of thing.

You get the idea so often expressed, and I'm thinking of two senses.

First, that people are just goddamn sick of stuff on television.

In other words, they're just awful sick of it.

And second, the fight that Cahill made with me, that he don't try to do some things, why?

I mean, just up in .

He said he thinks that you, he thinks that I come over much more effectively in person.

We hear that a lot.

I don't know whether that is, I know that's contrary to all of our tactical judgments.

But maybe we have to look at them.

Maybe we have to look at them.

That's a lot of work that the television will leave.

Rather than thinking in terms of super-different television productions.

What is your feeling about doing quite a bit of things that basically are related in the lives of .

You know, when you're talking

the whole business of, let's say, a living, charisma, excitement, et cetera, we have to remember, I think we will agree, that as we look back on our settlement campaign, and also our travels around the country, we created one hell of a lot of excitement.

Sure.

Correct.

Al?

You did that, a great deal of it, simply by the fact of being there.

Of being there, that's right.

But also the presence, and the presence is there, but also, you know, the lives,

But at least consider this.

Rather than saying, well, let's just go out on the cell phone for a little bit longer.

We're going to be on television hell with a secret.

That's right.

We're going to see my face and people will get it.

I don't want to be on television a lot, which some people would argue doing some of that kind of thing, but also just not doing the hell of a lot.

And you don't have to just do it.

You can make it out of it and do it well.

Some have not done it.

Well, what do you think about chaos?

Chaos is one of the best things you can do in the church.

He said, it's a Catholic state.

He said, there are six bishops.

He said, they don't know.

He said, I'd like to get them in.

He said, there are maybe 100 people in that state who really are a leader in the state.

And his deal was not really to make a speech so much to them.

But no question, as the governor has mentioned, if you wanted to take the time to save him, like he says, you could go ahead.

And I think you have to have, and should have, a presidential visit type thing to do.

Yeah, because the reason people come in and say, well, there's a dam, there's a whole crack on something.

But then go with a minimal thing, and very important, private function.

It is not private, by the way.

It has, that's right.

He has about 900 copy shakers and loaders in the state.

And his wife, here's what he was saying.

He was saying, six Catholics is, he said, the main newspaper publishers, the main media people in the state.

And he would have heard this about his publishers.

That's it.

And he said, for example, he says that in Jersey,

The governor's house isn't much of a band house for the six presidents.

The other side of that coin, of course, is rather than doing any concursions, is to go on our part of bringing people to the White House.

They care.

Yet, we all know that in terms of publicity, boy, there's nothing like going to that country

There's a different feeling, you know.

I get back to the fact that Bob Hart has been through New Orleans, to Birmingham, to Mobile.

They weren't all that good, but all of them were pretty good.

Some of those in the campaign, like, you know, Savannah, those were the goddamn impressive names, weren't they?

I think we might be better off doing some of that motorcading kind of crap in March and April in the campaign.

I agree.

See, in the campaign, you're there as a candidate, then all of a sudden signs are out and everything else.

I don't know.

Anyway, if you do it now, coming now, you might get a pretty good impression.

But I think you've got to do them.

You've got to carry the excuses for them.

for some reason.

And they better.

And not go into rallies.

No, no rally.

The one that bothers me is the big hall cheering crowd.

If you're going for cheering crowds, I'd rather have them on the street.

I couldn't agree more.

I'm not saying anything.

I am inclined to think, you know, I mentioned to you that, well, it would make one concession to the rally thing by having maybe, during the last two weeks of the campaign, four big rallies.

A crisis against them.

But somewhere in the campaign, I think you've got to have a couple.

If you don't have any, the other side of the coin is they're going to say, next you can't draw a crowd anymore.

He's always had a big loudness in his campaigns like everybody else.

Now this time he's a great deal.

Well, you've really got a golden opportunity, I think, really, as I said.

You take the Astrodome, the Chicago O'Connor Place,

and then a sports arena in Los Angeles and Madison Square Garden in New York, and the new, and the basketball court in Philadelphia, and maybe the Cleveland Auditorium.

Right?

Yeah.

I think it's, those would be pretty damn good.

That's, you're talking maybe about half of the, yeah, Ray, Ray's philosophy is, let's just don't do any in the last couple of weeks,

The last four days was his 30th.

I can see his point.

There's something to that.

He may be right.

What do you think is the point?

It's the thing of what you get.

What the impression is of the voter.

You get into a thing where the other guy is attacking you.

And it's a better time to set up a kind of contrast that must be won on his 70th by our...

And going back to being present, and going back to a wrap-up thing that's very high-level, high-level and personal, after, and with other people cutting the balls off of you, and with you having done some pretty good, you know, if he's going to attack you at some point, probably, I think you ought to go out there and defend yourself.

I don't think you should just let other people attack.

At some point, you should fight back.

But it shouldn't be at the very end.

The very end should be very uplifting.

The very end should be the President of the United States.

Maybe speaking from the Oval Office or something like that.

Or your setting or some other kind of setting.

Maybe from the Lincoln City or something.

You go in a different kind of thing at the end.

But before that, there you go with your dream of America and of

People seem to think you've got that, not that that matters to them, but that it matters to them, that it matters to you.

But before that, it's a rally kind of situation, and I think you can do it.

It can die pretty hard.

Say, you know, this man has been out here, and there's a lot of good people, and there's a lot that, I mean, that a lot of things have been said, but let's get the record straight.

Let's look at it again.

And so there's the attacks and then counter-attacks.

If the party of war and the party of .

But in the March-April period, I think maybe to get out here, if the China thing comes off reasonably well, I think getting out then, getting well received in this country would be very, very important.

Very, very important.

get to the key states, get to do something.

That's another way to kill some of your issues, too.

If you're all worried about joining the issue, you can find an excuse.

So use those things as excuses.

Don't worry about it.

But go and do what we've done.

You do some little visual thing.

It's a picture.

Drop a statement that shows your concern and that you're doing something about it.

And that's that.

You brush that off.

Then you go over to the governor's house.

On Illinois, you don't want to go to the governor's house.

On Illinois, you meet with Mr. Shaker under some other law.

I might bring him to the White House.

You've got to fight each one individually.

That's how you do it.

But Jersey probably wouldn't be good at that game if it wasn't for the governor's house.

In New York, it probably would be good to have rocker boaters.

Because you want rocker boaters bussing in New York.

And instead of the thing in the World Book or something of the usual, this is a quiet thing for about a hundred.

I wouldn't see it normally as a format where you have a receiving one.

But you sure can put in a slow receiving one.

And then David, you and I don't get to speak, but let them ask you questions so that they feel they've talked with you.

And then they go out and are, they go out cranked up and impressed as hell with your evidence and impressed that you took the time to come and chat with them.

And they see it as coming and chatting with them.

They've met you, maybe there's only a hundred there that are important enough to go, well, that's the question.

But maybe they ought to, that's my point.

Maybe we get a few peters and reports.

I don't know what that does, but I don't know if everybody seems to think so.

Conley seems to think so.

Well, the other side of the coin is, what else did you do at that time?

You don't want to be on TV a lot.

What was that on in China?

You're going to be on again in Russia.

You want to be on from time to time, but not, I'm sure, going to be blasting it.

You don't want to do rallies and speeches in big crowds, I don't think.

No, sir.

because there's nothing really that you want to say.

I don't want to do anything wrong.

And you don't want to do convention-type things either.

I mean, any kind of big speech is okay.

I don't particularly like the American Association.

Unless you give something like this, which are after the Baptists or the Rotarians or something that's for a purpose that might fit.

And so that might fit into the Baptists.

I don't think that fits.

Well, Billy.

Not in the way.

Senator Newsom thinking, well, I didn't get enough of doing some stuff where you do get some crowds of students, where you do get a chance to, we ought to try and keep from touching base with these people.

The idea of not going for the, for all the television credit.

Exactly.

But, there's got to be some in the TV news, which I don't think is, if you're not making a speech, if you're not haranguing people, if it looks like you're being present, I don't think it's bad.

Yeah.

I think you're right.

It's the thing that I think may really turn people off on is seeing candidates to be.

I think it is.

I think it does on television.

And I think it's on good TV.

And I also think that for that reason that commercials of the candidates just beat

are not good, you know what I mean, which is what we had last time.

Right.

Over and over and over again.

I think it's not good at all.

I agree.

I'm not sure you want any money from commercials at all.

I'd like to be able to sell that to the crowd.

That's good.

That's sort of interesting.

Well, I wonder maybe if you want to go on a radio show.

Sure.

But with television, I just wonder if you want to break into the programs.

That's a beauty lady turns out to be a German national with an expired passport.

It's no longer valid.

What are you going to do next week?

Throw her out?

No.

Well, we'll work something out.

Get her revalidated by the Germans or something.

Or we got ferocity in here with the...

I think that service around 4 or 5.

Yeah.

Or we did.

Oh, we did?

I'll be fine.

All right.