Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 321 › Conversation 321-018

Nixon & Haldeman on Henry Kissinger and William P. Rogers

Wednesday, March 8, 1972 · 12:29 PM–12:45 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 14 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Conversation321-018 on Tape 321 (tape position 01:28:46–01:43:01)StartWednesday, March 8, 1972 at 12:29 PMEndWednesday, March 8, 1972 at 12:45 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 321-018 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and H. R. Haldeman met to evaluate the public relations performance of Henry Kissinger and Secretary of State William Rogers following the President's recent trip to the People’s Republic of China. The discussion focused on the tension between the two men, specifically regarding Kissinger's media management, his perceived influence, and concerns about Rogers' lack of alignment with administration messaging. Nixon expressed apprehension regarding the public perception of Kissinger's power and instructed Haldeman to monitor potential bureaucratic friction within the State Department.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 10 minutes of this recording (about 75% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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... ... ... ... ... ... ...
that kind of presentation would do
would not help in my harm as far as the President is concerned.
And when I asked you about this before, you said Scali had said he hadn't done that.
He hadn't.
Scali, apparently, said it isn't in there at all.
Because I read the whole thing.
I read it just now, I read it yesterday, and it had nothing in there at all.
It was like Roger's grave, everybody said.
He carried it to the end of the evening, which he did, of course.
But nevertheless, if Roger's going to have it, he might.
But, uh,
And it's, it's relatively accurate in English.
The whole thing, the, his lecture on China and so forth, without very little reference, there's hardly any reference at all to the President's analysis of the world.
What I'm getting at is, Bob, that we must not be under any illusions.
Would you agree or not?
I can't say.
I don't see vital importance in this, but it's the most important thing of all.
You know, I mean, I gave him a little help.
Which could have easily been done because they asked a question.
Sure.
They asked him if there were opportunities to tell us a little about it.
And then he grew off of that.
But I think we must, you know, with all of our great admiration and so forth, we've got to realize that in terms of, that's why I asked you this morning, I said the term, selling the president.
And, well, I was intuiting my rocker, he said it better than me.
We should talk about selling the president.
I really agree.
Thank you.
In this kind of a thing, yeah.
Henry, when he's on stage with a big group of guys, you go back to any of his background with groups of people, he hasn't done that.
I've heard him in conversation do a darn good job of doing it with an individual, but it's something that's really tough.
Yeah.
But he has, some of the stuff he's pumped Joe also out there, because he's been training him that damn good.
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If he gets on, I don't know if he's likely to take, because I tried to read it with a very objective thing, and I must say, it's not the equivalent, but he could have taken the first eight pages and said it was true.
Thank God, though, you know, I'm running off into the third generation, and the first generation, that's a concept that nobody's written.
What the hell have I said a time and again?
I don't remember anything.
But I think what I meant is, again, in terms of writing the story for them, you know, you did not write the story for them, but some of them are smart enough to pick it up.
So you've got to be accurate with what you're going to do.
Thank you.
That's basically a we rather than an I.
It's very important to see.
The point is that Henry should not educate the females that he makes the decision as to what he's going to say to the young, and so it's very, very subtle things.
Yes, sir.
I'm just seeing some danger developing along those lines of a test of your, you know, power behind the throne, et cetera.
You have to see a problem in the future.
What part are you in?
It could be in the kids' away.
I don't think it's a real thing.
Yeah.
It sure is a problem in the future.
Mm-hmm.
He doesn't think that way.
I mean, he's talking completely unguardedly and not on stage.
But he knows strongly this operation and the things he's done about it.
But he goes beyond his own, you know, to go beyond a person who I've cut down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've had books, I've got a number one.
The second I get to the Bible, I'm quite good at it.
Also, I've got a number four, so...
But that's the end of it.
I'm a professor, and he always gives a test to go all the way to the point, and answer every point, make every point, and so forth and so on.
It's interesting that Mitchell feels that you've got to do the right thing.
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We always do.
We always do.
even with our own ambassadors, because they are captives of their own people, their bureaucracy.
It was an advantage in China not having the embassy to be run at all.
The first thing is we're going to get Henry.
Henry can see a way that he can
So that Rogers can be in the meeting to start a meeting with him separately.
He's got to be in time to go along.
And then you tell Rogers it's just whatever kind of game.
He's starting to realize that.
So I don't know what he can do about it.
He's the one that's causing his troubles.
I think he's seen some of that.
I think that's why he took this different kind of line on that.
Instead of apologizing to the Congress, he's trying to say there aren't any.
Well, not only in state, but he's got that tied rope so far now that I'm not sure he's gonna do much on that.
He's got his people.
saying that the state's been downgraded and saying that they're pitching about their morale and things like that.
I don't know if that's correct.
I don't know if that's correct.
I don't know if that's correct.
Thank you.
All right.
Okay.
How did that just sound?
Pretty good, Chad.
Yeah.
He was pretty pleased with the action, huh?
Yep.
Yeah.

NARA Description

On March 8, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:29 pm to 12:45 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 321-018 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 321-18

Date: March 8, 1972
Time: 12:29 pm - 12:45 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     Backgrounders
         -Henry A. Kissinger
         -Substance
         -John A. Scali
         -President’s reading
         -William P. Rogers
               -Lecture on the People’s Republic of China [PRC]
                     -Analysis of the world
         -Press
               -Strive for accuracy on PRC trip
                     -President’s analysis
                     -Chou En-lai
         -Kissinger
               -Compared with Rogers
                     -“Selling” the President
               -Joseph W. Alsop
               -Kissinger’s media appearances
               -Story
                     -Scali
               -PRC trip
               -Decision-making ability
               -Possible perception of power
                     -Potential problems
               -Columnists
                     -PRC trip
                           -Preparation
                                 -Books
     John N. Mitchell
          -Rogers
               -Moscow
                      -Trip
                      -Upcoming visit
               -Kissinger
     Ambassadors
         -Bureaucratic problems
              -References to Japanese society
         -Embassy staff meeting
         -PRC
              -Lack of embassies
              -Rogers

     Kissinger
          -Rogers
               -Meetings with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
               -Potential troubles
                    -Different line with columnists
                    -Morale at the State Department
          -John B. Connally
          -Nelson A. Rockefeller

     Mitchell
          -Previous conversation with Haldeman

Haldeman left at 12:45 pm.

Also recorded on March 8, 1972

  • 021-022 11:50 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:50 am and 4:40 pm.
  • 021-029 12:31 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Tricia Nixon Cox talked on the telephone from 12:31 pm to 12:34 pm.
  • 021-030 12:34 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:34 pm and 12:56 pm.
  • 321-019 12:45 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:45 pm and 2:15 pm.
  • 321-020 12:45 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:45 pm and 2:15 pm.
  • 021-031 12:56 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Tricia Nixon Cox talked on the telephone from 12:56 pm to 12:57 pm.
  • 021-032 12:58 PM · 43 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Tricia Nixon Cox talked on the telephone from 12:58 pm to 12:59 pm.
  • 021-033 12:59 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:59 pm and 1:48 pm.

All 36 conversations from March 8, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 321-018, March 8, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/321-018 (accessed October 2, 2026).