Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 322 › Conversation 322-056

Nixon & Colson on IT&T scandal and Antitrust litigation

Tuesday, March 14, 1972 · 4:18 PM–4:34 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 10 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation322-056 on Tape 322 (tape position 03:38:05–03:48:23)StartTuesday, March 14, 1972 at 4:18 PMEndTuesday, March 14, 1972 at 4:34 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 322-056 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss political strategies to deflect scrutiny surrounding the IT&T antitrust case and mitigate the influence of political adversaries in Congress. The President directs Colson to investigate the growth of IT&T during previous Kennedy and Johnson administrations to create a counter-narrative, while also discussing aggressive legal and interrogation tactics to discredit political opponents. Nixon emphasizes the need for his team to remain resilient and strategic under pressure, stressing the importance of gathering evidence to protect the administration.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 3 minutes of this recording (about 26% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello?
Yeah.
Well, how did our boy Mitchell do today?
Of course, he's like a rocket for him.
He's in there, I tell you, some way.
The fight is instead of doing the business of the government, this Congress is a smear day Congress rather than a law day Congress.
They ought to have a law day.
We've got 91 programs up there and they haven't passed anything.
It's a smear day Congress that will go down in history.
It's a smear day rather than a law day.
Pretty weird that he would have hit that line.
Eagle is crooked as an all-time leg.
How in the God damn name can he get into this?
I don't know.
Why didn't somebody go after him?
Is anybody checking his stuff?
Well, God damn it, where did he get on it?
Did he... What's the name of his gunner?
How did he get in?
Why did he sign it then?
I see.
If he says that, it'll kill him.
If he ever says they're part of it.
Right.
You haven't checked.
You haven't got him.
You have to check typewriters.
They did it in the Hiss case.
Kick him in the ass.
Good deal.
No.
We guessed who it is and asked him to find out.
I have an idea in terms of what's going on, as to whether to find out.
I wonder if Kennedy can steer a little bit the pieces out of him, to send him to get off of this, you know, you know, get on with it.
Well, if she isn't there, somebody's going to be ready to, the troops are going to come out and get off of it fast.
You've got to protect yourself.
I work right, I'm scared to death, the memos are fake, and you better protect yourself fast in the next case.
The star, they must have felt that much of it, too.
It must have sounded very incredible if they wouldn't have acted like it needed to.
All right, look good?
I mean, we gave this to him.
I had just done something real nice to the star.
And you notice, boy, that was a fantastic break for him.
You notice that was on all three members?
And they'd get cross.
You know, he'd get by the line.
Okay.
to make Marlowe answer questions, though.
He will, but preparing him.
Preparing him, I mean, how many years?
You can find out through private investigators how many, how early they saw each other, how often they saw each other, how many times.
You know, just keep counting, and counting, and counting.
Say, now, you're under oath.
I ask you to say, you're under oath.
I warn you, you're under oath.
And I ask you then, when he looks at something, that he's got a record.
That's the way I broke his.
That's right.
Here.
Here.
He knows how to do that.
Play the game as if he's got a memorandum.
Now I ask you this question.
What about that?
So he'll scare the shit out of them.
He's mean.
That's definitely a word.
He should have got it at the letter.
He's dead.
He's dead.
He's dead.
Now look.
I ordered all of them today.
For Christ's sake, get back.
Find out.
Has anybody checked to see how much IT&T grew during Kennedy?
How much it grew during Johnson here?
See what I mean?
You'll find most of the growth occurred in the eight years before we ever got in.
All right, fine.
And then we'll say, what was done?
That's when they grew.
What the hell happened to McLaren?
Get that to McLaren so that he's got some evidence to see.
Or he certainly knows them.
Is he really mad?
But he knows, look, McLaren, let's face it, he would have rather appealed the case on him soon.
But he's an honest man.
He would have resigned before he would have settled the case.
He was the one who started out the compliance.
Who the hell started the policy?
And frankly, I think it was wrong, but we did it.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Yeah.
What's the situation with regard to that jerk, uh, Rank, that you've been attempted by, and Stinch and all that?
Those are the ones that I used on Wilson.
The other one is Mark.
I just dumped Bob Wilson.
It was an utter disaster.
There we go.
The Christ of Kennedy Johnson, from their administrations,
that included Bobby Kennedy and that included Ramsey Clark.
What did they do all this time?
What did they do?
See my point?
Hit them by name.
Ramsey Clark sat by a lot of the girls.
Okay.
A lot going on.
Don't let your people get discouraged.
God damn it.
They're a fight.
I remember back in the days where
In this case, poor Carl Hunt was so scared he could not stay there, he left.
He left town.
That's why I got rid of a very good case, because he left town.
But this is the time when men stand up, and you stand up, you win.
Well, I'd like to cross him, I do.
Yeah.
Don't worry about the board.
Don't worry about the time.
Despite the cold, you may not have a bunch of movement.
Keep calm.
Don't worry about it.
Good.
I know there's something there.
I'd like you to tie it right here.

NARA Description

On March 14, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 4:18 pm to 4:34 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 322-056 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 322-56

Date: March 14, 1972
Time: 4:18 pm - 4:34 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 10/10/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[322-056-w001]
[Duration: 41s]

[See Conversation No. 021-068]

******************************************************************************

Also recorded on March 14, 1972

  • 021-068 4:18 PM · 16 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 4:18 pm to 4:34 pm.
  • 021-069 4:37 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 4:37 pm.
  • 021-070 4:37 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 4:37 pm.
  • 021-071 4:37 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:37 pm and 7:00 pm.
  • 021-072 4:37 PM · 20 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:37 pm and 7:00 pm.
  • 021-073 4:37 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:37 pm and 7:00 pm.
  • 322-057 4:37 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 4:37 pm.
  • 322-058 4:37 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 4:37 pm and 4:42 pm.

All 41 conversations from March 14, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 322-056, March 14, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/322-056 (accessed October 3, 2026).