Nixon, Haldeman & Ehrlichman on Busing legislation and Pay Board

56:39We're going to be here, and then go through to Seattle, and Chicago, rather than come down here and go to the ships.
56:52Not much, really, not very much.
56:54We should have to buy a new tanker.
57:07His idea is to form a consortium for the long haul insurers to pay on time for sale.
57:12I never did understand why he would apply.
57:15His deal here, the argument, the deal here would be the Canadians in third America, the government of third America, and so on.
57:23It is through a guarantee of Canadians on third of the capacity, as I have known for a year,
57:32So they start moving some through there as well.
57:37They can tap into the line.
57:38The line comes out of here, they can tap down.
57:41So they don't have very far to go, and that's when they're tapping into the mess.
57:50And they immediately start getting rough.
57:53How do they shoot them?
57:54They've got lights.
57:55They've got lights.
57:59They've got lights all the way out of there.
58:03Yeah.
58:07All right.
58:22You know, on the busing thing, I wondered what your situation is with regard to the legislature side.
58:30Is that being followed up by somebody?
58:32I mean, I assume it is.
58:34My first reading in the staff meeting this morning was that because of Sellers' announcement of opposition, our best chance is to get it through the conference.
58:48And they're going ahead.
58:49They're proceeding vigorously.
58:51Alcui and Javits.
58:52Now, they may try and amend it slightly.
58:54And we don't know how.
58:55But we're resisting that, and we're working with it.
58:59And we're going to see them with McGregor.
59:03And we're keeping right on top of that.
59:07Obviously, we will not get it through this House of District because the sellers block anything.
59:17blocking it, although McCulloch still remains optimistic.
59:19He thinks that some of them can be either brought around or run over.
59:28So we're working it.
59:29Both pieces of legislation have been offered.
59:31We've got good sponsorship.
59:33And so you're in as far as having a formal conference.
59:41How about the most important thing you say about the conference?
59:48I'd say it's strong.
59:52There are going to be problems like some, but broadly it's strong.
59:56Are we working that hard?
59:59Yes, sir.
59:59Yes, sir.
1:00:00We have a team up there in the city that we are working with.
1:00:11It's the editorial that we have a trial of us.
1:00:14They're working the south now.
1:00:17They're going to work the south and the west.
1:00:21And the border states, the middle states, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Michigan, and Ohio.
1:00:32What about it?
1:00:33What about interventions?
1:00:36I had a meeting yesterday, a preliminary meeting, of just Morgan and Clanky's, where I said, very well, I have a meeting today of Morgan Clanky's and Clanky's people.
1:00:48So by the end of the business today, we will have a list to show you.
1:00:53I will not tell what they are tomorrow, correct?
1:01:00You're not going to tell them?
1:01:01That's right.
1:01:05That's going forward.
1:01:07Yes, sir.
1:01:07How are you going to handle that?
1:01:10One at a time.
1:01:10We have a story today, so to speak.
1:01:12It won't be every day.
1:01:12I'm sure you got it.
1:01:14I'm sure you got it.
1:01:14It was wasted.
1:01:16I was here at Michigan one day.
1:01:18I went to Tennessee one day.
1:01:19It wasn't so long.
1:01:22With regard to getting capital, I understand that's what they did wrong.
1:01:33I know you had a meeting.
1:01:35That's all.
1:01:35Yes, there are Q&As.
1:01:37There's a packet.
1:01:40And it's not going to the cabinet.
1:01:41It's going to the department.
1:01:44Don't make it too thick.
1:01:46It's not going to be just something too thick.
1:01:52It's your statement.
1:01:54It's your long statement.
1:01:56It's your short statement.
1:01:58It's too thick.
1:01:58What I meant is, actually, if you give them just a...
1:02:03You know, a couple of pages about this whole situation about, you know, the sort of thing that they have the administration constantly on the offensive on crack.
1:02:12A couple of pages that the average person has in a crackhead leader to say five minutes in a speech or answer three questions in a talk show.
1:02:20Let's assume that, so they'll never read them all, take them to church, take them, certainly not the long ones, possibly not the short ones.
1:02:25I've heard that.
1:02:27You know what I mean?
1:02:28I understand.
1:02:29And if you could just give them, and not too much of that, you know, all that.
1:02:32There is a pretty good two-page double-spaced fact sheet.
1:02:41Yes, they had that.
1:02:42That was the one we were looking at that day.
1:02:49How many dollars for that?
1:02:56It's a sale.
1:02:58Very small.
1:02:59Very small.
1:03:06I'm not surprised both of the editorial comments, but I was intimidated from some areas.
1:03:18It may be in another department, but not creating a mechanism.
1:03:27And on the ground, which would be a...
1:03:32He's building that out of the period of time that the decision was made.
1:03:45The president was working on the busing decision and they had a meeting and they were talking on the phone.
1:04:01Well, that's, sorry, she doesn't understand.
1:04:04It's a damn tough comment.
1:04:07She might be hung up on this issue.
1:04:10But I was going to say, gentlemen, some of the editorial comments might be, plus I'm just a monitor, so I'm pretty precise.
1:04:21The Miami Herald would indicate either lack of understanding or lack of understanding.
1:04:28You can't tell, I can't tell.
1:04:30It's a matter of fact, both of them, you know, the Los Angeles Times, the credit people, the management people, they all have two-ish vets in their editorial, in their editorial, yeah, family board, so you might be getting attention from that.
1:04:48But on the, on the, on the, on the, what was your reaction generally to the editorial comment?
1:04:52I don't know.
1:04:52On balance, it was all right.
1:04:53That's what you told me the other day.
1:04:55I thought that was my feeling, too.
1:04:56Except when I read the news summary, I thought it was you.
1:05:00They tend to pick out the ones that are, you know, they try to give a balance, but they don't do it.
1:05:09When you, I think your average newspaper editor or writer likes to be a little bit out of step with the mass.
1:05:13He hates to think that he's following.
1:05:16Correct.
1:05:17And to say what the hell the matter is with this thing.
1:05:20Also, they don't like the Wallace thing.
1:05:25I think we're going to be, well, they're taking up the line.
1:05:30Well, I mean, you're not exercising moral leadership against moral leadership.
1:05:35We'll get two of those four papers next week.
1:05:38The very pre-pressing elements on the moral leadership is certainly going to be one of these papers.
1:05:50I've said it several times, there's nothing that creates race hatred more than the buses.
1:05:58We've got to remove this.
1:05:59It created between blacks and whites, and among blacks, and so forth and so on.
1:06:05And we had moral leadership expressly in the press conference over here the next day.
1:06:12Yeah, they did pick it up.
1:06:14Yeah, they did, as a matter of fact.
1:06:15Well, they did.
1:06:16Well, I was thinking we had a part of that.
1:06:18No, that's true.
1:06:18But I mean, the news columns did take our line on moral leadership.
1:06:23over this and so on.
1:06:25Are you guys going to talk about that to the speakers?
1:06:27This is a great moral leadership person.
1:06:30Please pick me up.
1:06:31It's a very difficult issue and easy to run with the extremists on either side.
1:06:35Avoid the extremists on either side.
1:06:38That sort of thing.
1:06:40When you're in the cell phones, either side is allowed.
1:06:47Thank you.
1:06:48Because I think, if anything, in terms of the public interest, we took too much of the Negroes.
1:07:00Provided plenty for them.
1:07:01There was a lot of them there.
1:07:05There was a lot of them there.
1:07:07I was just struggling in favor of that.
1:07:10What's that?
1:07:10Dr. Chief sent you a letter.
1:07:12I saw that.
1:07:13I was going to say, though, what I meant, John, is that in terms of
1:07:17of what we would suppose would be our normal support committee.
1:07:23I think that it's there that we have not done very well.
1:07:27And of course, we've got to remember, too, some people like Thurman don't like to, they want to, they probably don't want to be for whatever anybody else is for.
1:07:37They want to be out there eating a jar and we're kicking these people.
1:07:41You see what I'm getting at?
1:07:46That's what it means.
1:07:47In other words, frankly, they're brokering the issue.
1:07:51Well, you solve the problem.
1:07:53Dermot loses his best issue.
1:07:56So you're 20 points to the right of center.
1:07:58They're 90 points.
1:08:00They're, you know, 40 points to the right of center.
1:08:02Yeah, yeah.
1:08:06Well, I guess you've got it all.
1:08:07But the constitutional thing, of course, for these editorial writers around about that thing.
1:08:14We are getting together a constitutional brief, and Bork is going to do a special article, which the American Enterprise Institute is going to finance, which will be widely disseminated on the issue of constitutional rights.
1:08:32The Justice Department is doing one for the Congressmen, as they're calling for it.
1:08:38And Bork is a part-time part of the Justice Department.
1:08:41to get this pretty soon.
1:08:43Yes, get it to the companies they work out now.
1:08:45And we'll send it, not only to the Congress, but to 15,000 of the papers and so on.
1:08:51Yeah, for us.
1:08:51Yes, not just us.
1:08:52Yes.
1:08:52Ways they are considering, basically.
1:08:54Whether they're making a point of rejecting a deal, that would be normal.
1:09:15There is one scheduled thing that you might want to consider.
1:09:17I don't know if you discussed this in the Supreme Court.
1:09:25I haven't retraced it at this time.
1:09:27Well, it seems to me that as a symbol of honor, you have your traditional annual rhythm of the program.
1:09:37Because it is traditional.
1:09:41We've never had one.
1:09:42Yes, you have.
1:09:43It was one the first year of the war.
1:09:46There was a retirement dinner.
1:09:48No, no, there was a routine.
1:09:50Is there not?
1:09:52No, there's one for the speaker, there's one for the vice president, one for the president.
1:09:57We don't do all the series.
1:10:00I think if you reach your way out, you might find some other way to do it.
1:10:07What do you mean?
1:10:08I think, you know, a little symbolism here that indicates that you're, without saying so, that you're not flouting the court, you're not flouting the Constitution.
1:10:21That you do recognize the amenities, so to speak, is not all bad.
1:10:34...on a slight tilt, and it would be a nuance.
1:10:42Your toast, if you gave one, should be a very artful and profound discussion of some fairly esoteric aspect of the executive's relation to the court.
1:10:55It would be read for its metaphysical overtones.
1:11:02a restatement of the fundamentals.
1:11:04And there will be no references to any current issue of the day or anything of that kind.
1:11:16And guys like Fred Graham and others who might otherwise
1:11:22influencing the press and media to charge you with trying to tip over the court or something?
1:11:28I don't think the dinner is the best way to do it.
1:11:33I would want to do an article.
1:11:35You know, you want to write, you want to have a metaphysical article for the ABA Journal or something like that, or whatever, or something like that.
1:11:45A Harvard Law Review or some dang thing?
1:11:46Duke?
1:11:46Duke Law Review.
1:11:48The dinners, the dinners, John, everybody around here overestimates and they're totally in the ass.
1:12:05And they get very, very, very little fun.
1:12:10I'm not thinking of first day play at all.
1:12:14No.
1:12:14We've tried to peddle toast.
1:12:16We've peddled toast.
1:12:17We've peddled everything we've found.
1:12:20And we have found that somewhere other than the street, it's a social function.
1:12:26If we get any place bigger in the collection, we'll make some toast.
1:12:30in the last three years is one of the most hell of a sets of .
1:12:35Supposedly, when you're in California, Stanford Law School gives a dinner honoring Rehnquist, and you come to the .
1:12:48I think rather, I think the address is what I think.
1:12:49I think that if you're going to reach these reading, thinking people, you can reach them just as more effectively through an article.
1:12:58As a matter of fact, you could have, why not write for U.S. News?
1:13:02You've just done that well.
1:13:03You've just started out.
1:13:09I mean, drop it.
1:13:10Maybe do a series of articles for U.S. News.
1:13:16to do one on the court.
1:13:17What I'm getting at is, an article would get an enormous ploy, and if you give it to a magazine like this, they will broker the damn thing.
1:13:23So, another thing you could do, I guess, is to do it as one of the two or three radio talks in the series.
1:13:36Well, that's right.
1:13:36For that series of radios, obviously, you put this in as one of those, and that would get a place.
1:13:41The president dressing the nation on radio today, he said, makes news as well as thoughtful podcasts.
1:13:47Well, Price would do something there.
1:13:49Well, the traditional, the balance of power is basically the traditional fights between the states and the differences between the executives and the courts.
1:14:00I like the president's opinion.
1:14:06You can couch it, as a matter of fact, in a discussion of the war powers and the manner of controversy with the Congress.
1:14:17Well, we've traded beyond that.
1:14:18I think the radio talk series, the radio talk, certainly, the war power thing, of course, we have to do with that.
1:14:26I think if you want to hit your problem, the thing to do is hit the court directly with it.
1:14:34and all the discussion about the coordinate state, what it is, why it's black, why we black people, you know, the law of the land, basically.
1:14:43That fits the tenor of these radio addresses we just heard from the president.
1:14:47The law of the land, why we abide by it, and so forth and so on now with regard to the coordinate state.
1:14:54once the Court is spoken, must carry it out, and so forth, unless we change it.
1:14:59But on the other hand, the Constitution provides for the powers and the people of the Court.
1:15:05That's the point to be made here.
1:15:08But the thing is, John, the thing is that these editorial records, I mean, it shows you that, of course, there's a lawyer among them.
1:15:14Well, there might be, but...
1:15:19They write as if when the Supreme Court is voted, that becomes wholly red.
1:15:24The Supreme Court only interprets what the Constitution is at the moment.
1:15:28And once the Constitution is changed, it isn't wholly red.
1:15:34Also, if the Congress has a right to legislate on the remedies, and the Supreme Court cannot object to that.
1:15:45I think the whole thing
1:15:50I don't know whether you could get that in price.
1:15:52It might take you three months to get it sold.
1:15:58Put it to a garment producer.
1:16:00Who the hell has the rights on it?
1:16:02Do you have a lawyer?
1:16:02No, he has a constitutional lawyer.
1:16:05But they might have somebody who lives.
1:16:06McDonald might be able to write that.
1:16:10Oh, no.
1:16:10This young guy who doesn't work here.
1:16:12No, McCall.
1:16:12The Injustice Department.
1:16:14Well, the Injustice Department.
1:16:15I'm thinking of pulling, as a matter of fact, a stone from the Injustice Department.
1:16:18I bet we're going to have houses drawn around that.
1:16:23You can look at your brightest person.
1:16:29I thought you wanted to do that call.
1:16:32Why don't we do it at 4 o'clock today?
1:16:33That'll kill it for the press office.
1:16:39Are we going to do the press at 4?
1:16:41The press is one minute.
1:16:47So I walk down there.
1:16:52I think that's the best thing.
1:16:57Yeah.
1:16:59No, I'm good.
1:17:04Well, I think that this radio thing gets at it better.
1:17:07I mean, I like your idea of the dinner.
1:17:09Look, we invite burglars and justices to dinners.
1:17:12I mean, they kiss their ass all that way.
1:17:15So what does it mean?
1:17:19The dinner is not nearly the most overrated thing we do here.
1:17:25They're overrated.
1:17:26The only people that like them are the wives and the people.
1:17:29People are totally over it.
1:17:34It was very little good.
1:17:35We have labor leaders, we have social leaders, we have people for practice, we have people for cocktails, we do this and that.
1:17:45And they go out and say, it wasn't that great.
1:17:47And it doesn't have one goddamn bit of ripple effect now.
1:17:50I'm overestimating them.
1:17:51What do you think?
1:17:51I don't go out and say it wasn't that great.
1:17:53That's the problem.
1:17:54They say to themselves, well, there is this great ending.
1:17:56I'm not going to say it wasn't great.
1:17:58We have done more social events than anybody that's been in this place.
1:18:02And we've done evenings in the White House.
1:18:06We've done the goddamn church services.
1:18:09We have done everything, John.
1:18:11And people just love it.
1:18:12Isn't it wonderful to be around?
1:18:14And we've shown them the upstairs.
1:18:15Nobody's ever shown them the upstairs before.
1:18:18We've shown them the goddamn Rose Garden.
1:18:19And we've come in and they've walked through the president's office.
1:18:22Nobody ever opened the president's office up before.
1:18:23When I powered here, that office was never open to anybody.
1:18:26And it doesn't mean one tinkered goddamn thing.
1:18:29Well, that's the one thing that I think we've done.
1:18:32Or this sort of thing, a social event for the birds.
1:18:35Things that we just said.
1:18:37Put it out.
1:18:38Don't socialize with people that are your enemies.
1:18:40Don't listen.
1:18:41Let me disagree with you on the first part of that.
1:18:44The Betty Beale syndication and these others who cover these social groups are avidly following out in the hinterlands.
1:18:53And generally, if we get done with too many asses, Betty Beale's all right.
1:19:01She's okay.
1:19:01And she writes political stuff.
1:19:04She doesn't write just, you know, through-through.
1:19:07And it has intensive readership.
1:19:14I bet you can go through every penny deal of every other column that's covered.
1:19:19There's always the chit-chat.
1:19:20Not one of them has ever said anything about the eloquence, about the tears running down people's faces, about the fantastic historical grasp or philosophical grasp.
1:19:34Right.
1:19:34Those are always done without notice.
1:19:42Yeah.
1:19:43And either way, and we've tried to get those on the stage, those guys to get up there and talk about it like they already did.
1:19:49The great world statesmen, we've observed what we've been doing- Not one word of government.
1:19:55Not a single word of government.
1:19:57Our problem is that the press and government are all managed the least way, and there's no-
1:20:04Political, there's no political in over there.
1:20:07It's kind of like, we let the nurses sit down there and they're the bad asses and they're down there and about to whip the ass away and they lose and we give them booze and everything.
1:20:17Sure do, but it's all those old gals from the other side.
1:20:20Yeah, could be right.
1:20:20In other words, we created this as a social event.
1:20:27Yeah.
1:20:27What I'd love to see.
1:20:30Oh, he puts them in the racks.
1:20:33Pointing out the emotional responses and all that kind of thing.
1:20:38He's not a westerly fool.
1:20:42Well, he should have stayed here in any way.
1:20:46They don't like to go to the house.
1:20:49They'll see a fine door there once in a while.
1:20:53Well, coming back to this, how's the radio thing?
1:20:56That's fine.
1:20:57That's fine.
1:20:57I think we want to just get on the record somehow.
1:20:59And the radio thing has the additional advantage of reaching two or three million folks as well as getting on the record.
1:21:08Well, it's... First, we want to be picked up on credit.
1:21:15We already got U.S. News.
1:21:15How many records?
1:21:16Yeah.
1:21:16It forces the... Second.
1:21:19Yeah.
1:21:20Second, it can be rigged and circulated.
1:21:23But you see, it has an enormous advantage over .
1:21:26I swear to God, if we think of the ripple effect of dinner, we'll see what happens.
1:21:32So I hope you're here.
1:21:35I've been a total waste of my time.
1:21:39Come in.
1:21:40Sir, I just want to say a little bit.
1:21:42We're here to proceed with the plan, sir.
1:21:46Yeah, sit down, sit down.
1:21:47I don't know what the plan is, but I was, as left last night, we reviewed it in some detail this morning, looking at whether it actually ought to be changed and came back to the global world.
1:21:58Is it wrong?
1:21:59It's going to save a lot of them.
1:22:01They're going to want to change.
1:22:03Well, or war.
1:22:04Well, whatever you want.
1:22:06I think I'll do this.
1:22:09Fine.
1:22:10I don't think you should.
1:22:11I think it centers on a very fine announcement.
1:22:13If it's just going to be an announcement, I think it's better for you.
1:22:17Don't say my wife.
1:22:18I don't want to overreact to it.
1:22:21The president last night called the leading president of the House today at 3.
1:22:32at three o'clock.
1:22:54has called a meeting at 3 o'clock and we'll have an announcement regarding the decision on the wage part immediately after that meeting.
1:23:11And when did the county, when did he say, did he say, is the colony too important across the county?
1:23:16I mean, it's a decision, it's a decision, the farming, the farming, not overtaking, taking what we decided, but it's a party across the county council.
1:23:25It is a decision regarding the future, you know,
1:23:34The composition of the future composition of an operation of the pay board.
1:23:37Yeah.
1:23:37That's very good.
1:23:41And that he will affirm that and he will, yeah.
1:23:47Well, I'll be surprised if you come out and just say, and announce it.
1:23:51Yeah.
1:23:51That decision will be announced after the meeting.
1:23:54Yeah, that decision will be announced after the meeting.
1:23:56Now, I've been thinking of that.
1:23:58I wanted to raise it with Ron.
1:24:04I don't think that money is going out there and reading that.
1:24:13I think that who knows the most about it?
1:24:24George may know more about it than Connelly.
1:24:28Yeah, he's got a very delicate problem there.
1:24:31But anyway, the point is, if we get Connelly, are we going to be able to get him on the morning show?
1:24:36Yes, he's on at 8 o'clock.
1:24:37You see, that's better than partying with these people.
1:24:43Well, Ron raised an interesting point, which gets back to the press conference, and maybe it's worth reopening that for a second.
1:24:51If you want, if you regard the press conference as a positive thing that's going to do us some good, then your decision to move it to tomorrow and let it ride free is a good idea.
1:24:59If, on the other hand, press conference is a necessary equal to get some of these things swept out of the way into a habit, maybe it's better to have it today.
1:25:09Get it.
1:25:11Submerged by the, this news will overrun.
1:25:14And do it on the basis of, which is a little funny, but who the hell cares?
1:25:19Have the press conference first, and then go out afterwards and make your statement for Canada.
1:25:24Or like Canada did, I can say.
1:25:26Or do.
1:25:29Well, I can't, I'm not going to be able to prepare a statement at the press conference.
1:25:32I could go out and do a discovery, do a play, I don't have that time.
1:25:35Okay, I was saying that the answer to the question you were raising here, too, is for more than just your statement.
1:25:40I don't think you have, but I think you do need more than just your statement.
1:25:52See, there's a written statement that isn't more detailed, which takes the place of a brief, yeah.
1:26:00Maybe here, if you announce it this way, I think you're in good shape.
1:26:06What I meant is if you announce it in this way, then I'll just go out and say, no, we've just concluded, and I have an announcement to make, and that's it.
1:26:15And then we have a statement here, which is very great, and just walk out that way, and they have their story to write.
1:26:26I think that's best.
1:26:27No, I don't think we ought to try to...
1:26:33I see them out there.
1:26:37They've got all their things out.
1:26:40Tomorrow they won't expect anything.
1:26:42It's better to have those words when they're quiet.
1:26:46Well, they'll give you another shot at this tomorrow.
1:26:48Well, you say positive and so forth and so on.
1:26:52I've been in person several positive things I want to get from the president.
1:26:57I want to say, well, I want to crack marijuana.
1:26:59I want to crack abortion.
1:27:02I want to hit some things like that.
1:27:04I know all my liberals around here don't want me to hit those things.
1:27:07But by God, I'm going to get out on record.
1:27:08I'm going to do something awful with this crap.
1:27:11I'm going to legalize marijuana.
1:27:12I'm going to beat for abortion and all the rest.
1:27:16This will give me a chance to hit that.
1:27:18I'd rather have that beat Friday night than this goddamn table.
1:27:22This has got to pick me a winner.
1:27:26All right.
1:27:26Yes, sir.
1:27:27Bye.
1:27:28And all we'll do it for is walk out and just have the cameras.
1:27:31You don't have to tell them a great thing in advance of the cameras.
1:27:35No, no, no.
1:27:35Don't be here expecting new announcements.
1:27:37Yeah, I'm happy with new announcements.
1:27:40I think you'll just turn in the cameras and I'll go and read the announcements.
1:27:46Or will you tell them before I come out that we'll have an announcement and a written statement, any other written statement you want me to talk to?
1:27:53And they say, of course, we have a...
1:27:56Don't give it to the written statement.
1:27:57You don't make an announcement.
1:27:59And we have an extended written statement.
1:28:02We have a longer written statement for the press, which will be announced by .
1:28:14No, I think we're sometimes a press conference in the broadest sense.
1:28:27The good thing they have, the bad thing they have.
1:28:33First, we've got to make the press conferences many stories, not one story.
1:28:40And some of them are going to be negative, some of them are going to be positive.
1:28:43But the point is, the negative ones are going to ride anyway.
1:28:46They're going to ride because of the media, and they're riding because of the show they already got that day.
1:28:50So we may as well get in a few punches on our side.
1:28:53You see what I mean?
1:28:54They were frustrated by that marijuana story yesterday.
1:28:56Yeah.
1:28:57It was all over every network for 15 minutes.
1:28:59I know, but that's not what you're saying.
1:29:03Well, he didn't go to me.
1:29:05He was worried about my position.
1:29:08Oh, yeah.
1:29:09And every one of the stories was tagged.
1:29:11The president maintains his strong opposition to liberalizing marijuana.
1:29:17So you're loud and clear on that.
1:29:19And they're criticized.
1:29:19Their position doesn't come out great.
1:29:21All right.
1:29:23It's a terribly screwed up thing when you say we want to keep it illegal, but we want to make it eliminate the penalties for using it.
1:29:36It's to be half illegal.
1:29:37Don't be half safe.
1:29:38It's an important thing.
1:29:51It's part of the office of this country, the United States, as far as the pageantry and all that goes.
1:30:09Well, the problem is that they're .
1:30:14It's true of the local society, people in every city.
1:30:19It's just the aberration rather than the positive.
1:30:22Yeah, that's right.
1:30:24The idea that Christina Bord's poopy bounced out of her dress.
1:30:27That was the main link, was that she did lose her breast.
1:30:33Or that the Australian Prime Minister's wife's dress was split up to her chest.
1:30:43Or, you know, that somebody... Yeah, when you have... Like you, when you have a really flawless performance, like during her...
1:30:51They do make no debate about that she was good.
1:30:55But that's all.
1:30:56That's all.
1:30:57But probably in terms of just sheer... sheer first quality...
1:31:02presence in the restaurant.
1:31:03He was as good or better as his money.
1:31:09What do they want?
1:31:10They want these people that Lenzo would put in, these goddamn black dancers, these bags and shit.
1:31:17Really, it's awful.
1:31:18It is a problem.
1:31:19It is terrible.
1:31:20No, no, Dorothy Kirshen is a great star, a great star, and a fantastic performer, and so forth.
1:31:29Because she isn't fashionable.
1:31:31She isn't.
1:31:32I guess she isn't.
1:31:33She's just too benefited.
1:31:34Like Beverly Sills, because her dress was cut down and her blouse just came out again.
1:31:39And she's not as good as Beverly Sills, can't even try on her shoes.
1:31:43But Beverly Sills has the benefit of being Jewish.
1:31:46And both sides.
1:31:47Oh shit, she's Jewish.
1:31:49God damn it, 80% of these guys are Jewish.
1:31:52You don't realize, you don't realize what the hell the point is.
1:31:55I do realize that there's been many...
1:31:58Kicking, kicking, a little bit of a piece of stuff.
1:32:00But Beverly Sills, I mean, she's crude, she's vulgar, you know what I mean?
1:32:07She just looks, she acts as like she is.
1:32:09I mean, she doesn't have... Dorothy Kirsten may have come from a poor family too, but by God, she acts like a queen out there.
1:32:13I mean, her grace, style, presence, and her voice is perfect.
1:32:19So Beverly Sills comes out, you know, and...
1:32:23I feel very startled.
1:32:24I don't mind all of these stuff, but I'd like to at least, when something is good there, I'll pay attention to it.
1:32:35If we could, the other thing I was going to mention, Bob, I've asked about the story.
1:32:39Sure.
1:32:42I'm pretty sensitive about one point that is, after all,
1:32:52and he's in charge of something, he wanted to run it.
1:32:59He wanted to preside.
1:33:00Now, all people here have gotten to realize that whenever there's something in his field, he's sure.
1:33:09Now, he didn't say anything yesterday, but I was rather surprised that George took the, you know, the chairmanship rather than the comment.
1:33:18In here?
1:33:19Yes, sir.
1:33:20And Tom was sitting there sort of as a, I had to break him in, you know, and ask him questions and so forth and so on.
1:33:27Now with, generally with your White House staffers, your cabinet officers are so incompetent that a White House staff man should be a good man.
1:33:37But, and I realize that George, we have to do a problem with him too, but I'll see him a little bit.
1:33:46But I just, I don't know, I feel that in this field, Connolly considers himself to be the boss.
1:33:52You know, God damn, he's the chief economic advisor.
1:33:57And I fucking fear he's been in charge.
1:33:59I think that was not worth it.
1:34:01See, Connolly hasn't taken the initiative and doesn't.
1:34:06George did because it was a problem he dealt with.
1:34:10And the earlier meetings, they had a meeting, you know, before they came here.
1:34:14George had been putting all that together, and they could have got this with a natural outgrowth of that.
1:34:18I doubt that there was much thought about letting anybody... You don't say they're not going to have any problem on this one?
1:34:25I don't have a feeling that he did.
1:34:26And there was this meeting this morning.
1:34:30George resided, and I don't think he's on it yet.
1:34:36There are two ways to do that meeting this morning.
1:34:41One was to do it as we did it.
1:34:43The other is to call Colin and say, we'd like to come over and see you.
1:34:48I was surprised when Mr. Jordan saw that.
1:34:50I'm amazed at that.
1:34:51Although it shouldn't have all been us who said that.
1:34:52It's over many people.
1:34:53Yeah, I got that.
1:34:54It's a five-minute walk.
1:34:55If you call on Mr. Jordan's office, it's not the right thing to do.
1:34:58I was thinking that as we sat there.
1:34:59It was very crazy.
1:34:59And I particularly want to be surprised at that.
1:35:03and has been, and he does step up and make these stand-ins.
1:35:08I'll talk to George a little about that.
1:35:11George is considerably concerned because the family's so busy and he's so badly staffed that a lot of these things slip between cracks.
1:35:20And so George is beginning to move again.
1:35:23He laid off for a long time.
1:35:24It was very hard for him to do because he saw so many things that weren't getting done.
1:35:30Now he's beginning to move again.
1:35:33And I'll talk with him.
1:35:35But he's very sensitive to the problem that he will get.
1:35:38The thing for him to do is for all his sake.
1:35:39I mean, it's very easy because it's very crucial.
1:35:43But today, if John Cooper should make a reference, I don't know what their comments are.
1:35:49Second, I would say no.
1:35:51the problem I'd like to report to you about what we had done and said this and that.
1:35:59What are you going to turn anything in?
1:36:02And then let Conway ask the questions about what we should do.
1:36:08See, I don't know.
1:36:08I may be saying God was under the bed, but I know God was sensitive.
1:36:11I hear you.
1:36:11Thank you.
1:36:15As a matter of principle, you're absolutely right.
1:36:17As a matter of specific, on yesterday, I didn't sense any problem.
1:36:23I don't think it was, but it's still, this morning, .
1:36:28But on the other hand, .
1:36:34This is good.
1:36:45Well, I'm deliberately hard on the foot rubs.
1:36:47There's ash coming up the other door.
1:36:50That's the shelf stuff.
1:36:51It doesn't stop.
1:36:52It's better.
1:36:53It looks a little better.
1:36:54It looks very hard.
1:36:55Well, George is not going to show up here.
1:36:56Well, because he believes strongly in the position to take Georgia.
1:36:59So you've got a basic problem.
1:37:00Well, George doesn't think he's going to want to get later.
1:37:04How about that?
1:37:05George wants to get rid of control.
1:37:07He's worried about it.
1:37:08He's a little more and more in the position of your board of control.
1:37:14All right, let me ask you something.
1:37:19Have you seen any polls that yet indicate that less than 65% of the American people are foreign controlled?
1:37:26They are.
1:37:27They're foreign controlled.
1:37:28They're wrong.
1:37:29And that was pointed out this morning.
1:37:30They're absolutely wrong.
1:37:31I think they're wrong.
1:37:31I agree with George.
1:37:32But George is making some purists.
1:37:35He doesn't make them.
1:37:36George has an honest purist, though.
1:37:38He says, I know I'm biased.
1:37:39I know I'm tracking from...
1:37:40I want to do security.
1:37:41I'd like to sink those goddamn controls tomorrow.
1:37:43I think we should never have done it in the first place.
1:37:46That's my vote.
1:37:47I think that our interference...
1:37:49A few others pushed us into it, and I realize everybody says it's just a lot of good.
1:37:52I don't agree.
1:37:53Nevertheless, done.
1:37:54I will not see him.
1:37:58All right.
1:37:58You could be absolutely hard-line.
1:38:01Now, that son of a bitch has gone too far.
1:38:03Gone too far.
1:38:04He lives over there.
1:38:05He needs to report to the Secretary of the Treasury.
1:38:10What else can you tell me?
1:38:13I'm not going to see him.
1:38:15He has it all the way.
1:38:19I'm tied up this week on other matters.
1:38:23I'm sorry.
1:38:24God damn it, after what he did when we were in Hawaii.
1:38:29Does anybody else have any suggestions?
1:38:33I've heard a beating of Arthur Burns.
1:38:34Do you, John?
1:38:35No, sir.
1:38:35I do not think you should say.
1:38:39Well, then.
1:38:40Well, I know Schultz, so there was no question.
1:38:42Mullen was always giving in on it.
1:38:43No, he said this time.
1:38:45Another one from our group.
1:38:54I think so.
1:38:55About why Sam Hill said what he did the other day without cracking a comment.
1:39:02What does it say?
1:39:03What does it say?
1:39:04Well, basically it says that he was importuned by the State Department people abroad, and the government had taken a position.
1:39:11Now, God damn it, I told you to take Samuels on.
1:39:14Now, look, if you said that it was not his fault, what is the situation?
1:39:16After this column, he's to get, somebody's to get a call.
1:39:21This column will come on Samuels?
1:39:23Yeah.
1:39:24This isn't, I see Arthur's hand in it.
1:39:27Bob, Bob, Bob, it's the Jewish truth.
1:39:30Connolly says it all the time, George can't believe it because he doesn't have an anti-Semitic role in his body.
1:39:36John Connolly is anti-Semitic.
1:39:38I could be, and Sam Harden, I'm going to be.
1:39:41But my point is, my point is, that's what it is.
1:39:44There is a Jewish group to get together.
1:39:47We've always got to keep Stein away from that, you know.
1:39:49Got to keep pushing him home.
1:39:50He's been taken in by the Rowlands and the rest.
1:39:54Let me tell you what our problem is with this.
1:39:58Let me tell you what our problem is with this administration.
1:40:00It's also where there's, I'm sure, a comment.
1:40:02I was not keen on Stein taking the job.
1:40:05He likes Stein very much, but he wasn't keen on it for his time.
1:40:11Thank you, George.
1:40:16Look at the people around me.
1:40:19I have Arthur Burns, the head of the Federal Reserve, a Jew.
1:40:23Stein, the chief economic advisor, a Jew.
1:40:25Kissinger, the chief foreign policy advisor, a Jew.
1:40:30Now, I suggest you drop that much.
1:40:34They say about this Negro pictures, you know, for being anti-Semitic, for not having a Jew in the cabinet.
1:40:40What in the name of God do you want?
1:40:43You know, understand I'm not very proud of them.
1:40:45We don't have them because they're Jewish, but you can go beyond that.
1:40:50Chief speechwriter on economic and international issues.
1:40:53Well, sure, sure, that's good to do.
1:40:54Your chief advisor on cultural and civil rights matters.
1:40:57Len Garment, Len Garment, Bill Sanpire, Ha, and White House people, and they're Jewish.
1:41:01No exchange.
1:41:02We have them because they are common.
1:41:04That's our argument.
1:41:08As I told you, though, for that matter.
1:41:11that much job instead of giving a lot of answers.
1:41:13Why?
1:41:14Because if you move more snakes, move non-snakes, what are you going to give to our black people if they're in motion?
1:41:25They're in motion.
1:41:29The black man's a idiot.
1:41:30The black, the only black who is moving correctly now.
1:41:33They're well-known than the other ones, but they've asked them.
1:41:36I'll turn it down.
1:41:38Could I respectfully suggest that you get that story out so that we don't get dreamed by one again?
1:41:50Put it out before the announcement so that you don't downgrade that.
1:41:54It was offered to Holland.
1:41:56How did the past state put it out?
1:41:58Tell Rogers to get it out.
1:42:00We offered it to Holland and Holland preferred to stay as ambassadors, that's what it was.
1:42:06and therefore we are offering it to Morse.
1:42:10Tell Morse we're doing it.
1:42:11Tell Bill that we've got to do that.
1:42:14We're going to take heat for replacing, for not filling a black slot with a black.
1:42:20I know, well that's what they thought.
1:42:23I mean, they may think, but why not put the story out?
1:42:25I know we think of the, we all talk about the black, we've got to get Brimmer in the job.
1:42:31I mean, the job would mean a damn thing to us.
1:42:35Be sure to, now let Rogers put that story out, but then back to Daniel, how can we handle that?
1:42:40We can't really get away with this thing, Sean.
1:42:43I'm not so sure this article is his fault.
1:42:46I think it's somebody else that's inspired him.
1:42:50Well, so, and I think it's our fault, but I don't know.
1:42:55I think we ought to, we ought to, well, first of all, re-read it.
1:42:57The first thing, when I heard you say that, that I, uh,
1:43:06And I am not going to see him now.
1:43:18I oppose.
1:43:27I don't think I should do both.
1:43:29I don't think I should tell you I'm going to see him tomorrow.
1:43:33Because if I do the other, then he will put out the story.
1:43:35I'm keeping you from seeing him because he's putting out the story.
1:43:39Well, what are you going to say on the other?
1:43:40Are you just going to say it can't work it out?
1:43:42No.
1:43:44I'm trying to sit at the vest and report to Connolly.
1:43:48Well, I report to Connolly this time that I am completely involved with the vessel.
1:43:59And you could say that he's to report to John that I've decided that Connolly's had it.
1:44:06And then Connolly will determine.
1:44:12But he is actually the son of a bitch.
1:44:15Damn, I'm sorry I didn't catch you from that church, you know.
1:44:24He shows up and they're not that automatic.
1:44:39Yeah.
1:44:40Hello.
1:44:40Rose there.
1:44:42What is this for?
1:44:45We've got a pipeline problem.
1:44:47Because I think you can see Rob Morton.
1:44:49It has to do with the Canadians and relocation of this pipeline.
1:44:57We had a long meeting yesterday about it.
1:45:03And it's one of those problems that's mixed, domestic and foreign.
1:45:08So that Hayden and I will have to work together and work together for it.
1:45:11But
1:45:12It could be something that comes out of this meeting with the Canadians that it would be a pretty good thing.
1:45:18It could.
1:45:19And if the consortium of the two governments and the pipeline people and build this pipeline across Canada, we're going to catch a merry hell, of course, on this value use pipeline.
1:45:34The way the evidence turns out now, we may not ever get any evidence.
1:45:42The environment, we're in for a couple years of losses.
1:45:50They don't have any evidence.
1:45:52But get somebody to work it out before Mark is in the scene.
1:45:55Oh, sure.
1:45:56Absolutely.
1:45:56I'm perfectly willing to take whatever you're talking about.
1:45:59Well, Flanagan and Quisher have been working on it.
1:46:02Get Alex to it.
1:46:04I'm sure that Bill and Reed never represented any company in any way involved in any one of the pipelines.
1:46:12Probably represented all of them.
1:46:14That's the problem.
1:46:15And the last of the bombs besides.
1:46:18That's what I'm talking about.
1:46:19So probably represented...
1:46:22How the hell do you get an expert unless you know something about it?
1:46:27I'll have it, incidentally, I'll have that plank in Q&A over to you today.
1:46:30I've got it in the background.
1:46:32The other thing that you might put in the Q&A is just maybe Sigler just handled it.
1:46:34Because that's another good way for me to handle it.
1:46:36First of all, Sigler covered that in the brief, and I have not referred to that.
1:46:44Did he?
1:46:45No, he has, well, not that I know of, I'll find out.
1:46:49You see, if Ziegler, you might call Ziegler and say, look, Ron, did they ask you about planning it?
1:46:55He's asked for guidance on that.
1:46:57He and I have discussed it in the past.
1:47:01And I'm pretty sure he's, I want to say, I want to say hardly nothing.
1:47:05I mean, if it's at least possible, then that's why I'm going through what you can, right?
1:47:10Exactly.
1:47:11As a matter of fact, they were, the price was very good.
1:47:14I think the, you know, the very basic things involved in all of this.
1:47:25This is all right.
1:48:07The Department of Justice has got a great big long explanation of that case.
1:48:22It's very vindicated.
1:48:27Eastland's judgment is that we're not holding on releasing any long explanation of that case until after the Diva beard hearings are closed.
1:48:38He says, hell, don't throw any more gasoline on that fire, boy.
1:48:44And this pole danced, I see.
1:48:46He says, if you don't release that, one, don't release anything I haven't approved.
1:48:52But two, don't release it unless you absolutely have to.
1:48:54As he says, Tommy, you'll be in here.
1:48:56He's already in here.
1:48:57The man will expand.
1:48:57Expand the hearing.
1:48:58Expand the hearing.
1:48:59Yeah, yeah.
1:48:59In the fourth place is where he wants to expand the hearing.
1:49:02Find out about the show that's here.
1:49:10We're trying to, we're trying to acquaint ourselves with the facts that the Justice Department think that they're not releasing.
1:49:14He's going to be very wrong.
1:49:15But this is one way or the other.
1:49:17They're going to get an emotional backlash.
1:49:27They're going to be a weird thing and just kind of sneak everything out of the way for four hours.
1:49:32There's no chance to do that.
1:49:33They're going to work right into the long term.
1:49:37But the long chance is better than nothing.
1:49:41Our marijuana, this report, was some two years in preparation.
1:49:44We intended to do a thorough study, and I think it was snapped up one more hour.
1:49:53That's sacred because he's representing the president.
1:49:57We amended that this morning.
1:49:58I think he should interact on it.
1:49:59I know what the answer is.
1:50:01They did do it the best they can.
1:50:08Stuck around on that one.
1:50:16Well, getting back to Mr. Samuel, I've got a jewelry dealer who made me bother.
1:50:20You did start the bill and you said there was nothing to it.
1:50:24I said there was nothing to it.
1:50:30I went to Connolly and called him later on and he said that Connolly was overreacting.
1:50:35Connolly said he was overreacting.
1:50:36I called Bill and told him to fire Samuels.
1:50:37And then I told that dear Chuck and told Connolly what I had done to Connolly and said, you know, you owe me a lot.
1:50:53Except that the dealings are larger if you hold the clerk with you.
1:50:57Now, John, I have tried the sugar and cream deal.
1:51:00I have kissed him on the ass.
1:51:02I mean, I brought it in and I haven't seen him in months.
1:51:08And it hasn't worked.
1:51:09Now, I don't know if the other will work or not, but I think without having us open, taking the wrong deal, which I think would be bad for the election afterwards,
1:51:19We've got to do that because he's got to be brought out sharp, kicked hard, agreed or not.
1:51:26Yes, I think we can do a lot in that direction by making appointments.
1:51:30And don't worry, we're never going to get an appointment online.
1:51:36I am not sure that Mal understands what our objectives are.
1:51:43Well, maybe he doesn't.
1:51:44I think he wants them to check that out.
1:51:48Because they were interviewing a fellow from Seattle who came in to talk to me about that job.
1:51:52So I kind of got to do it from that standpoint, and I did have a talk with this guy.
1:51:59And I wasn't persuaded, but they really understood what your goals are here.
1:52:04in terms of... You want a guy who will stand up to you.
1:52:10No, no.
1:52:11He was just an occasion for me to get into the subject.
1:52:18He was not appropriate for the job.
1:52:23But...
1:52:25Well, make sure Malik understands.
1:52:27He doesn't.
1:52:28I mean, Malik has the impression that it's got to be cleared with Arthur.
1:52:33It does.
1:52:33See, Malik, you've got Malik in a very difficult position.
1:52:35Which is that there is a commitment to Arthur by the president that no appointment will be made to the board that Arthur doesn't concur.
1:52:42No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
1:52:43No.
1:52:44Yes, sir.
1:52:44They're not concurred.
1:52:45Consolidate.
1:52:46No.
1:52:47Consolidate.
1:52:47No.
1:52:48It's not as concurred.
1:52:50It's got to be concurred by both Arthur and Cunningham.
1:52:52The point is, Arthur can't make the appointment.
1:52:55But Arthur is not going to have court hoisted on him an appointment with which he disagrees.
1:53:02And so balance- Oh, but Bob, who has got the- I didn't try to take- I put the word by.
1:53:05Some place in that thing you see the word veto, where I say nobody can have a veto on the right of the president to make an appointment, including the Chief Justice of the United States.
1:53:18So that's just going to be .
1:53:20I cannot say that the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board is a veto on the appointment.
1:53:27I don't say that to Berger.
1:53:29I remember we had a hassle with Berger on that.
1:53:33Otherwise, that means he'll make the appointment.
1:53:35Well, that's what comes down.
1:53:36That's what surprised me.
1:53:38See, when this guy came in to see me, he said, well, I'm going to go over and see the chairman.
1:53:44And then I talked to...
1:53:46I was trying to appoint the guy and have the chairman do that.
1:53:51But then afterward, I talked to Malik's guy, because this fellow was making inquiries on me, and he said, no, this fellow is not acceptable to the chairman.
1:54:03And so we'll just keep looking for somebody else.
1:54:06And I said, well, is that your criteria?
1:54:08And he said, yes, that's got to be.
1:54:11Well, that's our first criteria.
1:54:13That's not the first.
1:54:14Well, that's what he said.
1:54:15The first criteria should be whether he's acceptable to come or not.
1:54:22And then we go into our group.
1:54:25This is the President's choice, and, uh, our group has the Green Barrett now, that's all.
1:54:31And we can't give him a veto.
1:54:32If you give him a veto, you'll never get anybody.
1:54:35The way they've done it, which is rather good, is that they've gotten into a group, a group for consideration, and then they pick the one who doesn't want out of the group.
1:54:49Well, anyway, we'll avoid the direct frontal thing, but just be sure you don't see the champion first.
1:54:54That's the main thing.
1:54:58We should have our man return.
1:55:04But coming down to our career, I'm asking a more fundamental question, Your Honor.
1:55:10Don't you agree with me that the tender loving care is not the way to handle our situation?
1:55:16I don't know what is the way, because we've tried the other way.
1:55:20And when he was here, that doesn't work any better.
1:55:26So?
1:55:26Well, I think he's just, he's smart.
1:55:29Equality, peace, tough, and you just have to keep fighting every day.
1:55:37And there isn't any path forming with our hands about it.
1:55:41Let's talk about that.
1:55:42That's the way you all have to do it.
1:55:44Yeah.
1:55:44As far as I'm concerned, though, I cannot use this office to get down.
1:55:47So you'll end up running.
1:55:48You'll end up running.
1:55:50Connolly or Stein or anybody else.
1:55:51To get to me.
1:55:51To get to you, if you would.
1:55:53Oh, yeah, yeah, fine.
1:55:55Oh, Rose, just to be sure, I wanted to make sure you were on this.
1:56:26And, you know, I want to be sure that we don't get any other invitations because we know the election is going to be over and through at this point.
1:56:41We have no problem with that.
1:56:42I know I'm a church, but for example, I want to be sure that it's not the Jordanian or anything.
1:56:50And I don't care what it is, it's not...
1:56:59That's at least one thing that is very important to our community.
1:57:03Yes, they're small, but we have many left.
1:57:04They are very big.
1:57:05It's a way of putting screws down.
1:57:06You know, the curious thing is, although they're very different types of person, they're almost indispensable to him.
1:57:17It's pathological about the body.
1:57:20I suppose it doesn't make sense.
1:57:28I think it's a question of your approval.
1:57:30It's a, you know...
1:57:30I know.
1:57:31You know, a gesture or an issue of...
1:57:37It's on the budget.
1:57:38It's one of those difficult problems where we do...
1:57:44or we had to take the poison out of it.
1:57:47We have substantially, I think, moved in that direction.
1:57:51Otherwise, we'd be having a direct confrontation, and we'd be for the Constitutional Amendment, and we'd be against it.
1:57:57And everybody would polarize on that.
1:57:59And this polarizing, to an extent, that would have been much more.
1:58:03What we needed to do was to close up the issues as well.
1:58:07And you're now riding very high on it.
1:58:10When you dissect that, then you've got some for and some against, and the local papers will be carrying all of the against.
1:58:17But you're still riding high around the country on being against busing, on being against busing, which was the whole idea of the television.
1:58:24The other thing that we want to remember in this whole appeal, if you look back at the Civil War period, the label was very clever.
1:58:44using the issue, not making the issue an abolition.
1:58:47And of course, got the violent opposition on the part of the laborers who were being arrested for not being strong enough.
1:59:01He made the issue through himself, which got him sort of the best of both worlds.
1:59:04Because he was assassinated, and only because he was assassinated, it left the impression that he'd always fought for Negro rights, which he had not yet.
1:59:12But on the other hand, fighting the war among the Union for the Union thing enabled him to keep his sentence.
1:59:19And we're in a situation here where the problem of race is going to be with us, John, and it's going to be with us a hundred years from now.
1:59:23You know, just take a ball like Rodgers, who is basically heavily oriented toward the eastern liberals, because he's lived with them and worked with them and arrested them.
1:59:33He was mentioned in the church the other day.
1:59:37He said that he had a problem with those.
2:00:08There is no society, as we know, in at least half of the District of Columbia.
2:00:16No family society.
2:00:18How do they work?
2:00:21Well, it's a lot of informal families in the sense that a kid lives with a man and a woman, or lives with a woman.
2:00:32They may or may not, one of them may or may not be his parents, but they almost always have some connection with his parents.
2:00:39Either it's an aunt or an uncle or a grandmother, or it is the man before his mother was living, before his mother left, and now he's living with a different woman, so it's sort of step-parents kind of thing.
2:00:54So it's a very mixed up deal.
2:00:56And by the time these little girls get to be 14 to 16, most of them are impregnated.
2:01:03Because their mothers work, they don't know any different.
2:01:07Well, and that's what goes on around the place.
2:01:11Some man comes in screwing his mother.
2:01:13It's just the way things are going out there.
2:01:16And there is not any family structure as such.
2:01:20Of course, that's the whole thrust of the Moynihan Report, is to relax the people.
2:01:25The Moynihan Report, ahead of its time, was a terrible right-winger event.
2:01:30But Moynihan did cut through to the heart of it.
2:01:34You know, on this obfuscatingly issued business, putting that Equal Educational Opportunity proposal in there has had a very interesting result.
2:01:44Because NBC now is running a three-part series to prove that it doesn't work.
2:01:50And at the same time, Perkins is calling for twice as much money.
2:01:55So that what it's done is to split the opposition into two absolutely opposite arguments.
2:02:00Let's say it doesn't work, let's say it can't, let's say it doesn't work.
2:02:06What about the argument of all we're doing is spending money?
2:02:55There is no society, as we know, in at least half of the District of Columbia.
2:03:04No family society.
2:03:05How do they work?
2:03:07Well, it's a lot of informal families in the sense that a kid lives with a man and a woman, or lives with a woman.
2:03:18They may or may not, one of them may or may not be his parents, but they almost always have some connection with his parents.
2:03:25Either it's an aunt or an uncle or a grandmother or it is the man before his mother was living, before his mother left.
2:03:36And now he's living with a different woman, so it's sort of a step-parent kind of thing.
2:03:40So it's a very mixed-up deal.
2:03:42And by the time these little girls get to be 14 to 16, most of them are impregnated.
2:03:49Because their mothers work, they don't know any different.
2:03:53Well, and that's what goes on around the place.
2:03:56Some man comes in screwing his mother.
2:03:58Well, it's just the way things are going out there.
2:04:02And there is not any family structure as such.
2:04:07Of course, that's the whole thrust of the Moynihan Report, which is the last of its people.
2:04:12The Moynihan Report, ahead of its time, was a terrible right-winger event.
2:04:16But Moynihan did cut through to the heart of it.
2:04:21You know, on this obfuscatingly issued business, putting that Equal Educational Opportunity proposal in there has had a very interesting result.
2:04:30because NBC now is running a three-part series to prove that it doesn't work, and it was no good at the time.
2:04:37At the same time, Perkins is calling for twice as much money, so that what it's done is to split the opposition into two absolutely opposite arguments.
2:04:46So to say it doesn't work once is because it can't do it, it's just because it won't do it.
2:04:52Exactly.
2:04:52What about the argument that while we're doing this kind of perception of the equal, here we are?
2:04:58I would deny that for a minute.
2:05:00Well, I do.
2:05:01If I'm asked, does the President stand for separate but equal?
2:05:10I would duck the question and go back and say, let's look at what this is all about.
2:05:17It's about transportation.
2:05:20And the President here is asking for a moratorium on
2:05:29a diminution of transportation.
2:05:32He is not asking for any reduction of desegregation.
2:05:37He's not asking for any reduction of the effort to eliminate the dual school system.
2:05:43All we're talking about here is one remedy, transportation.
2:05:47Let's not obfuscate this by a lot of slogans.
2:05:51Now the reason I do that is that if you flatly say, I am not for separate but equal,
2:05:58you're going to lose a lot of support in the South because fellas are going around nudging each other and winking and saying, hey, this is separate, but equal.
2:06:08And that's good.
2:06:11And I don't think you want to make a flat denial of that.
2:06:16So I'd back off of it and attack it from a different angle.
2:06:19In other words, it's about one remedy for desegregation.
2:06:25Which is divisive.
2:06:27It does not contribute to education.
2:06:30It has very little to be said for it and great people to be said against it.
2:06:34It doesn't change our goals.
2:06:37It doesn't change our principles.
2:06:38It doesn't change our standards.
2:06:41It simply says that busing isn't the way to get to this point.
2:06:48So they come up and say there's no other way.
2:06:51Ah, see that's the bankruptcy of a liberal position.
2:06:55to say that the only possible way to do this is by question.
2:07:00That's the easy way out, is to haul little kids an hour across town instead of doing all the other things that our statute points out as more preferable revenues to arrive at the same goals.
2:07:18And all you have to do is look at the statute.
2:07:21They're all spelled out right there.
2:07:27Anybody who tells you that we can't achieve those goals in this country except by busing little kids hasn't really thought about the problem.
2:07:38What about the argument that the Supreme Court has directed the trustee to be used in the remedy?
2:07:43Well, that's what this issue is all about.
2:07:46They've said in the Swan case, it is one of a number of tools that might be used.
2:07:51Nowhere do you find the Supreme Court saying it must be used in every case or in particular kinds of cases.
2:07:57And here we're saying to the Congress, is that public policy for this country?
2:08:05That's the question before the Congress here.
2:08:08Should that be?
2:08:09It does not say.
2:08:09The Supreme Court says it's one of a number of remedies.
2:08:13Right.
2:08:13It doesn't say it must be.
2:08:17It must be.
2:08:19Now, we say, all right, let's leave it in our arsenal of remedies.
2:08:23But let's put it at the bottom of the list.
2:08:29Because of its destructive, divisive, counterproductive aspects.
2:08:37And only if there is, in fact, in a given case, no other possible remedy should we turn to this one, which has proved so difficult for the majority of American people.
2:08:48We still say, okay, plus, when you can't do anything else.
2:08:57Not very often, but not too often.
2:08:59And not for grade school kids.
2:09:05Plus.
2:09:06Yeah.
2:09:08And as far as business, if I'm busting for racial balance is concerned, I can say, well, I have an answer for you.
2:09:13I'll wait until you say, well, Mr. Martin, remember to pay me.
2:09:16Save us more than cover the press conference, but since then, I've had the Department of HEW run out on their computers all of the cases in which that's been the result.
2:09:27And gentlemen, my notes show me, the HEW report shows me there's 176, or whatever the number is, and I'll have that for you on Saturday night, where the court actually did, got to that result of racial violence.
2:09:40Got to that result.
2:09:40Yeah, that's what they did.
2:09:42Yeah, but they never said... See, they're very cute about it.
2:09:45Because he... Incidentally, it doesn't...
2:09:46It didn't murder in his memorandum.
2:09:50First, did he say... Did he tackle racial violence?
2:09:54Yes.
2:09:54Racial violence is not required.
2:09:55Yes.
2:09:56Did he not also tackle busing?
2:09:59Not in that memorandum.
2:10:01Now, that's coming over to you.
2:10:02I signed it off this morning, and I have a little quote right on the cover.
2:10:05It's all you need to read.
2:10:07And it goes to the question of racial balance.
2:10:10He sends his opinion in another case around the whole list of judges.
2:10:13He says, any district court that thinks they have to achieve racial balance misreads our opinion in this one case.
2:10:18I get it for a hundred and seventy percent.
2:10:23Well, yeah.
2:10:24That's my imaginary number.
2:10:26Oh, no, maybe they're five.
2:10:27That's what I'll need.
2:10:28Morgan, we're at five on the end of the day.
2:10:29My point is that I'm just going to have to be sure there's regular or any cases, you know, and we're going to have to do a little bit more.
2:10:47Of course, there is.
2:10:49I think those are the lips, if there are any honest lips.
2:10:54Must be going through the purchase of heroin, trying to figure out what they are for and what they must be for.
2:11:01I think they must be.
2:11:02How the hell can they be for it?
2:11:04They're all over the place, you know.
2:11:05They're all pregnant.
2:11:07They're all scattered.
2:11:07And for everyone that says it's the only way to get it, you've got to want a lot of cheek, who comes forward and says, you're right.
2:11:19Okay, Your Honor.
2:11:19That's an interesting news item.
2:11:22On the way to court meeting broke up early today, the three-letter members issued the following statement which had been prepared before the board session last night began.
2:11:30We have tonight withdrawn from the board in protest against an attempt to do great injustice to all Americans who work for wages and salaries.
2:11:39As their representatives, we cannot give our approval or be a part of the unfair and unworthful part of the tactics by the industry and public members of this board.
2:11:47Cyrus changed it out of the board and said, I regret very much the labor members retiring, because I'm firmly convinced the tri-partite system is the only sound and democratic way to do this job.
2:11:56Clark Kerr, also a public member, made this comment, proposing this as a fair and equitable policy.
2:12:08February 16, 1951.
2:12:08He didn't have to have a .
2:12:12Let me tell you.
2:12:16John, don't let everybody get their bowels on a whore about this.
2:12:21Bussing.
2:12:22Or the wage board.
2:12:24These things come, these go, and they're going to continue.
2:12:28Case after case, but you've got to fight every battle.
2:12:32Fought well.
2:12:35Okay.
2:12:37This is Sapphire's short spot.
2:12:41Your statement.
2:12:49Any words for the 60 word cut line?
2:12:54Do you think this is too cute?
2:12:57And Robin and I made a plan to fight inflation to everybody's job.
2:13:01I don't think so at all.
2:13:02I think that's good.
2:13:03I don't think so at all.
2:13:10I think it is.
2:13:10We went round and round on this with the economy.
2:13:12Bill had quite a few more.
2:13:14He had a bunch of them that were safe.
2:13:17And he had more.
2:13:18He kicked me around some more.
2:13:20He kicked him around for a whole day before he got into it.
2:13:24He had some pretty good stuff, but this is what it's all about, isn't it?
2:13:31He kicked me around a bunch more.
2:13:37It won't help.
2:13:41That sure sets up the picture, though.
2:13:44Well, it gives you a correct name.
2:13:48The executive committee is going to meet until 3 o'clock today, and the assumption is that he's looking to see what you do.
2:14:00At this point, they probably know who you are.
2:14:06Yeah.
2:14:08to recognize that there's at least a possibility of meaning he made the wrong move.
2:14:12I don't think he made the wrong move.
2:14:18We'll go forward with that one.
2:14:22Marshal Graham.
2:14:23Yeah.
2:14:25Let me make one comment with regard to the grief and the difference in tenderness and age.
2:14:31I'm sorry, I don't know how they're going to get through.
2:14:38This church occurred to me as a result of thereby missing an opportunity.
2:14:48or green to go out and say that they need to make a port kind of trip.
2:14:54Every zero-gain only on whether it's going to be about time or not.
2:14:58If I hit that, we'd have the point test running, and hey, since you're doing this, you'll have that opportunity for us to make as much or more of this area as we want.
2:15:13Hey, that's cool.
2:15:15That's cool.
2:15:22I had a program with the board that said we would have some money to get up each day.
2:15:29We've been in sessions so many days.
2:15:33We've done that.
2:15:36Get a report from me on that.
2:15:43Get out on that broad day.
2:15:49Can we get a list from anybody?
2:16:20So, well, I guess you can.
2:16:22God damn it, they've got a lot of some horrible cases, you know, in the local factories.
2:16:28Unfortunately, some of them as well.
2:16:29Some of our clients, the ones on that, some of them are definitely unbelievable.
2:16:35I had one, just one dinner, and there's a class dinner.
2:16:38You see Commerce retired, or whatever that's called.
2:16:42Bill Commerce.
2:16:43Yeah.
2:16:43And Smith is retired.
2:16:46I'll go to him and ask him if he's...
2:16:51And Johnny Hurt, I don't want to do it for all those that are retired, but have a greater check to see who are the problem.
2:16:56John Cooper would be one instead of any senator.
2:16:59I don't care a thing about the round tables for the senator.
2:17:10Congress can retire in countless instances.
2:17:18Talk to McGregor.
2:17:18I want no White House or Cabinet people present except for McGregor, Donald Trump.
2:17:22You know, this is the community for them.
2:17:27Second point, I think that it would be, it would be before, I don't think it would be before the rest of the country.
2:17:42Third, it should be, the question is whether
2:17:47It's fag.
2:17:49It's fag, or they're wise.
2:17:50It's fag.
2:17:50Of course, you do get prices by the people, it's true.
2:17:58That may be a problem.
2:17:59It may be better to have fewer.
2:18:01Well, what do you do?
2:18:02How do you decide who you have other than the retirees?
2:18:05The retirees, we just decide.
2:18:07We pick their friends.
2:18:08You don't have to have others.
2:18:12You can't pick them all.
2:18:15And senior people can go across the board.
2:18:20You see, the moment you take the leadership, which you have to do, you have no problem on whether you did or did not include people down the line, but there you pick a few friends who are a little more than our friends.
2:18:31The real question is why.
2:18:33In terms of the men, it makes a hell of a lot to have their wives there.
2:18:39You're talking about this, this question, whether you want to have this or you're hungry.
2:18:52That's wise because I think it's easier to have less people.
2:18:57Yeah, and it means one hell of a lot to the law.
2:19:02And it's going to mean anything to the other guests to be there, particularly if it's the retirees.
2:19:06And they'll know a lot through the third.
2:19:08And they'll know what the others will all know.
2:19:10Now, let's stop and think, though.
2:19:11It's a way to get a lot of accomplishment out there.
2:19:15And a walkway at the White House, you know.
2:19:20I was using a round table, which was for 120 people.
2:19:27That's 60.
2:19:28That's the list.
2:19:29That's a part of it.
2:19:30If I give a task, I'm very long-winded.
2:19:31But I had Don Schumer's book around me.
2:19:39He's in that room.
2:19:42On this incident, I do want to include one thing I do want to include.
2:19:44I want to include all of the chartered marches.
2:19:49Not the previous ones, you know, the ones with the tournament and the marches.
2:20:01Well, include them.
2:20:02I thought it was a better way to just shoot for the...
2:20:04Forget the lies.
2:20:05It doesn't make sense.
2:20:08Shoot for a greater number of Congressmen.
2:20:12What do you think?
2:20:13What do you gain from it?
2:20:15A bag of 700 men.
2:20:15And, you know, you reach some guys that feel pretty good.
2:20:20Have a little bit lean, a little bit tilted to the Republican side.
2:20:24And you can tilt it to the fact that there are more Republicans than Democrats in the League of the City.
2:20:37You see, it's a point we were just talking about, about how much it means to people to attend dinner.
2:20:55I know Tom likes to get away, he likes to do things, but...
2:21:01This one you're doing just for the people over there.
2:21:16Get in.
2:21:17Sapphire.
2:21:17You might call in and see if you can get in.
2:21:22I think we ought to sing.
2:21:26Hey, hey.
2:21:26That, uh...
2:21:27Many object to the fact that the Lord did not approve a 20% wage increase for the long term.
2:21:32Millions of Americans, after they've had 100 to 100 days strike, put out there, from millions of Americans, are limited to 5% wages.
2:21:48That's a lot of money, but it's not the one statement that was wrong.
2:21:59See, but even if I slide a man in there, now he doesn't, it's just, he does object to it.
2:22:06He objects to the fact that I'm trying to see if he can get a brief paragraph sent down to me on that point.
2:22:14Is that very good?
2:22:20Oh, yeah, yes.
2:22:21You have the spoken word.
2:22:23Oh, yes.
2:22:24I'll cut something out of that.
2:22:33Uh, President Nassif, you could put a paragraph thing in the, uh, put one under the, uh, spoken statement, the TV statement, making a point that, uh, saying he, I mean, a point that he objects to the fact that the board wouldn't approve a 20% increase to the long term.
2:22:55And while billions of Americans are limited to 5% to a lot of 20% to one specific group, too long.
2:22:58On the point that he was, he walked out because of one special interest group did get an exorbitant pay grade.
2:23:09Now he says he would cut something else down.
2:23:17Thank you.
2:23:18He says, I mean, there's a little more room in the thing.
2:23:22I said, no, he's going to cut something else out of it.
2:23:25They always jump it that way.
2:23:27Well, they can't blame him, you know.
2:23:28He can't blame them.
2:23:29If they don't cut it, then the network will.
2:23:32You're right about that.
2:23:34That's what we've all got to sit down and do now.
2:23:44Well, getting back to the students and beginners, maybe I am wrong.
2:23:51Well, I don't think so.
2:23:53John Campbell, his line about that, he was aptly read around the country.
2:23:58Well, it's true.
2:23:59It doesn't help to write it.
2:24:01He's read all over the country, too.
2:24:03But if she doesn't say what we once said, if they don't write about the things we've already written about, then what the hell's the difference?
2:24:10Eddie Neal writes about Martha Mitchell and this.
2:24:15And there was gossip about the effect of this and that.
2:24:18and the White House is, I think, less, and it was more interesting than others.
2:24:21Not just social security.
2:24:23She writes politics, too.
2:24:24But the point is that the politics she writes is that, you know, there was a strange combination of the dinner and so-and-so rather than somebody else.
2:24:32It was interesting to see him talking.
2:24:36You were so right.
2:24:37The toast bin sunk without a crisp.
2:24:40Not only what, if you say what I say, which may not be so minimal, but whenever they say anything good about me, which never they say, it's about them as much as you could give or so on.
2:24:54And we haven't tried to get about that.
2:24:55Sure we have.
2:24:57And we've tried it quite a bit in the news, with the West Wing news guys, and probably the report that a lot of people are degrading themselves by just wandering around with their notepads.
2:25:08And that's what the reporters do.
2:25:09They run around with their notepads and try to get somebody to say, you know, that it was terrible.
2:25:15And the IT&T have tried to buy out their part of the- That's right.
2:25:20They want harder evidence.
2:25:27They aren't something, they aren't, they aren't viewed by the reporters and or by the people as being something worthy of a notice.
2:25:34Except for one time.
2:25:38Well, yeah.
2:25:38That's why they got, that was because it was on live television.
2:25:40My point is, though, that people saw there how gnarly it was.
2:25:43They paid great, great attention to that.
2:25:48Right.
2:25:48Yeah.
2:25:59It's interesting to us, just to get all of, I get the rating great down on TV, it's fascinating.
2:26:07Joe's toast was seen live by only three, just slightly over three million households.
2:26:13Your toast in response, just because it was a few minutes later, was seen by nearly seven million households.
2:26:19More than twice as many.
2:26:23It's purely a moment of what time you are, nothing else.
2:26:28His came first and yours came later.
2:26:30Not that first time.
2:26:34And yours got an infinitely bigger audience because it hit after 8 o'clock on the morning of the show.
2:26:40Yeah.
2:26:41His hit before 8 o'clock.
2:28:00I raised this point about the comment of Shultz and John was here.
2:28:01I don't know where, of course, he was.
2:28:02I don't know where he was sent to.
2:28:18You can call other White House, you can call other Academy officers over to the White House, you know, and come meet me in my office.
2:28:25We've got that, but John Connor is concerned.
2:28:29I don't think we should get off their ass and walk over to that crazy apartment.
2:28:33Correct.
2:28:33In fairness, Georgia may have done what he has to do to come over, and John may have said, I'll come over there, because they do do that.
2:28:42Georgia can't do anything in fairness, but I just know there's nothing...
2:28:49On Scully, could I suggest that you have a greater schedule of Scully for several of the Republican congressional groups?
2:29:01Second point is that maybe Scully is really, he has not been a good candidate for the sub-cabinet sometimes.
2:29:13The third thing is
2:29:40It might tell the government that the person made a very good call.
2:29:47And if the talking points that you do in response, or maybe you had somebody that you paid the quick tax, that they could be gotten together and done to Congress and Senators before they go on to the 26th.
2:30:03What I'm getting at, Bob, is that I am thinking that it's
2:30:06We may force, like with all our people, we may not just put the words in the mouth and say, this is John, you know, this is John, you know,
2:30:27We have probably been, if I can just say something, I think we have been making, with the best intention of major error in this field, we have been betting almost solely on Henry.
2:30:39And Henry is not good on substance.
2:30:45He's not good on reality.
2:30:46He just gives us a basic view.
2:30:51So you sent him down.
2:30:54He doesn't feel the pressure.
2:30:56It doesn't mean that he doesn't cry, but it's just not his way.
2:31:02It's the basic way.
2:31:04It's talking about what he did and what is an issue involved and so on.
2:31:10Do you agree or not?
2:31:13It rambled off on philosophical discussions and so forth and so on.
2:31:30He knows about what I've been told is going to be something we've got to get on the next couple of days with some of your schedulers.
2:31:40But in regard to getting Henry and Chicago and two or three other places sorted, it's a little bit of a status quo.
2:31:46Otherwise, it's going to be a real hit.
2:31:48So if he doesn't do it, we'll see.
2:31:50Yes.
2:31:53I mean, several points.
2:31:58One, that it isn't what we thought it was going to be, because they're talking about going on a half hour of late night Sunday night on Easter Sunday, which
2:32:21that is worthy of the subject matter.
2:32:23Secondly, that their interest is clearly not to explore China, which is very much our interest to talk about, but rather to look into the future business of more policy development, the three schools, three-legged school, and all this sort of stuff, which
2:32:41would be, at this point, to our disinterest.
2:32:42And therefore, we should hold on one thing, at least go after the Soviet term, and then re-evaluate whether it does us any good to do it.
2:32:50And maybe at that time, we'd have the opportunity to go on and talk about solitary.
2:32:55The president's not going to solitary in the two countries.
2:32:58Rather than getting into the... And that we can start building up that thing now.
2:33:01But in the meantime, we want it to go into other markets now.
2:33:04I have suggested this memorandum on it, that when it goes, it might be functional.
2:33:11See what I mean?
2:33:13The continent will be interested more in personal things.
2:33:18When he goes to L.A., he might do a...
2:33:23They must have a show of that sort.
2:33:25I don't know what they have now.
2:33:28They may just have newsmakers and so forth.
2:33:30But in any event, Ben Henry is satisfied with that.
2:33:34The...
2:33:39We've been able to get West Point to get over and write a story about her and about her and about her.
2:33:44I don't think we'll get a final story.
2:33:46The final thing we're going to get is on the travel, for the traveling display.
2:33:51But we're going to make the traveling display out of the photographic display that we're going to have at the museum.
2:34:03What about it?
2:34:04It's better to point out the gifts themselves.
2:34:10Would they be able to run some of those?
2:34:11Why not a little publicity?
2:34:13Why not?
2:34:14Why not send the gifts to the Julliard Chapel case and run something for Jacksonville Historical Society and everything like that?
2:34:25Why not loan them for a week to the New York Museum, the Los Angeles Museum, the Chicago Museum?
2:34:32and put them in there.
2:34:33After, we don't have to leave this up here for the White House jackasses.
2:34:37I leave it up here a month.
2:34:38You leave it up long enough to build a little interest.
2:34:41That's it, because of the enormous public interest that I've been asked to put it on the road.
2:34:45Let me suggest, you've got, let's leave it for a month.
2:34:48About a month.
2:34:49And then...
2:34:51And then why don't you, why don't you consider putting it on the road if you don't think so much?
2:34:57Yeah, I'd do it while you're on the road.
2:34:58I'd like to get it out by the middle of that road.
2:35:00Put it on the road for a while before you go to rush it.
2:35:03All right, thank you.
2:35:03Thank you very much.
2:35:07Thank you.
2:35:11I don't think it needs a month here.
2:35:14I think that's pretty long.
2:35:15Well, of course, you didn't have a super-tourist season.
2:35:18Well, right after the tourist season is over, you know, after the Easter holidays is over, that would be a very good time, you know, to say that there's a demand and so forth to take some other darn thing down.
2:35:29You can do that because the tourist season really is still that tourist.
2:35:33We should give the law in this place.
2:35:40We should only give them a couple of days and then they might line up to see Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Cleveland, Texas.
2:36:02Good use of Dallas, Fort Worth.
2:36:03Well, you can't do tremendous cities.
2:36:05I've got New York and Philadelphia.
2:36:07They've just about gotten any gun damage.
2:36:09You know, you have one hell of a thing there.
2:36:14And what made this, and what the recent security before you said about taking the pandas on sort of a gallop, sort of a word, sort of a telepathy.
2:36:21On the other hand, I mean, it looked like, well, what people would look like is the old Roman in the back prison with some chains around their necks or something.
2:36:28This doesn't sound right.
2:36:31No, except if it builds up around the country, we want a chance to see the pandas.
2:36:38I'm not sure.
2:36:39We've got to look into it.
2:36:40No, I don't know.
2:36:41But this one is...
2:36:43But if this is a good enough exhibit, I'd send it around.
2:36:47I just got ready to work and tell him how much we appreciate it.
2:36:54But it was a new call to my attention.
2:36:56Why not stay out more than a year later when the time is right?
2:37:12You see, Kissinger, let him bubble around the rallies, you know, on the bumper.
2:37:34Taiwan, communicate along.
2:37:36Basically, Henry's whole thing gets involved in the substance.
2:37:40He can't help but do that.
2:37:43The way to do that, we do it with the White House staff.
2:37:46Pop a lot of elastosine by movies.
2:37:49What I can do is cut that down to a short reel and then have Scali do the talking about a crack.
2:37:55Rather than me, I don't want to show my movies and give offense to the black Jonathan.
2:38:00That would be a device, because the movies aren't ready yet.
2:38:03Why would we wait until now to do it?
2:38:07We're trying to do something out of that.
2:38:09Those movies are, Jesus, I've got all of them.
2:38:12We're all trying to get them to go off and all of them.
2:38:16Well, I think if you did that, it would raise holy hell with people that didn't get to go, you know.
2:38:20I don't want to do it.
2:38:21I don't think it's a good idea.
2:38:24You can't go off.
2:38:26But I think the Navy, what you send that crew around, did they get good stuff?
2:38:29Yeah.
2:38:29Well, sure, they got much better stuff than I do.
2:38:34But I've got some stuff that they didn't get.
2:38:37They couldn't get.
2:38:38I've given them up to them.
2:38:42Well, then let them use your stuff as theirs.
2:38:46That would be all right.
2:38:47That would be all right.
2:38:48But I think if you ever have a situation where a network said, well, all of them got it, we didn't, we have all of them in.
2:38:54I think, but on the other hand, if our own crew got it, what do we call this crew?
2:38:59The documentary crew.
2:39:03I think there's the one.
2:39:04And they're making stuff available.
2:39:06Anybody who wants it.
2:39:08Well, that makes it available to them.
2:39:11And it's got to be a damn good idea.
2:39:12But then to use the scouting and anyone can also do the, do the, do the sub-cabinet people.
2:39:15I won't do it in the State Department, I won't target the folks.
2:39:18Where the hell can't you do it if you don't know?
2:39:20Is this clear?
2:39:23Why not see it?
2:39:24Why not see it?
2:39:28Or where you're going after?
2:39:42They still love to come over and take a look at the display.
2:39:46If they do it in the evening, they love to bring their wives.
2:39:51Bring their wives, see the display, and have John Scali do a little... You understand?
2:39:58Yeah.
2:39:59I think, would you not agree with me that while most of us would prefer to hear Henry, it's got a little bit more of a, or am I wrong?
2:40:06I think, I'm not so sure even they prefer to hear Henry, because you make the point that there's been so much interest in sort of the behind the scenes, how is it done, and not the substance, but the...
2:40:19These are the things that you haven't seen in the papers.
2:40:22And then you didn't see on television.
2:40:23The stuff you don't know about China.
2:40:26And mainly not about China, but about Nixon in general.
2:40:34I think we're all part of the official family.
2:40:40They want to know.
2:40:41So, how did he do?
2:40:47You can't do it without any film.
2:40:50I agree.
2:40:52I agree.
2:40:52And the film rated for that on the TV.
2:40:56I would have, I suppose, to try to relate it to whether or not
2:41:10in the space of a month, whatever we were able to do about the presidential image of China and totally disappear.
2:41:23I don't think there's anything you can do about it.
2:41:24In Alaska, I think, even in the Stryker report that you sent to Rio de Janeiro, that's going to stop.
2:41:30Yeah, it's fascinating.
2:41:32Absolutely fascinating.
2:41:35The first place in the South, the big drop, is a return to normal.
2:41:39In January, the SOP was 53 approved.
2:41:41Then in early March, it went up to 66.
2:41:43Then it went down to 53.
2:41:47So what it is, is it erased the 66 to jump.
2:41:50That's true of the nation as a whole.
2:41:52It was 54, went up to 59, went down to 54.
2:41:54It just took a bigger swing than SOP.
2:41:58So it's actually going up that far.
2:41:59No place else went up that far.
2:42:01I don't.
2:42:01The others went up.
2:42:02I don't see where I've hit.
2:42:03I just saw SOP went up 13.
2:42:05Oh, yeah.
2:42:07Okay.
2:42:08Now, looking at the... We're done.
2:42:13We're done.
2:42:36That one's set up very soon.
2:42:38And Bob, it's a good time to do it.
2:42:45It's almost the end of the night.
2:42:49I'm sure you've leaned a very tough bow on the side, and I don't do this just because we're trying to be nice to their lives.
2:42:55What's in it for us?
2:42:57Let me say this.
2:42:58I just have a strong feeling that what's in it for us, what's in it for us to vote for,
2:43:07Well, in the first place, the retiring guys don't mean anything.
2:43:11There's nothing in it for us on the retiring side.
2:43:14The fact that you're giving a dinner for them at all is all you need to do for them.
2:43:21I mean, their wives, they're assured they would like that, but so what?
2:43:23Their wives probably.
2:43:23Their wives probably have been in the White House.
2:43:25Every one of them has been in the White House.
2:43:28A caller's wife's adoration of you is not going to do you any good.
2:43:33Right.
2:43:34So let's make it a stag.
2:43:36Let's not put a greater end to that position.
2:43:39I mean, make it a stag for about 120 people and have the Army core up and go ahead now.
2:43:49So if you look at it from January to early March to late March,
2:43:54As you know, nationally, we went 54 up to 59, back to 54.
2:43:58In the East, we went from 53 up to 56 and stayed at 56.
2:44:02No drop.
2:44:03In the Midwest, we went from 56 to 56, you stayed there, and then stayed at 56.
2:44:11You know the difference?
2:44:12Not affected the East at all.
2:44:14The Midwest.
2:44:14It affected the East.
2:44:15The East went up three points and then stayed there.
2:44:19Yeah.
2:44:20The Midwest didn't move at all.
2:44:22Alright, the south went up 13 points from 53 to 66, and then back to 53.
2:44:28And the west went from 52 up to 55, and then dropped to 48.
2:44:34And the west, you're now behind 44 to land work.
2:44:41The west ends up being a drop.
2:44:42The east ends up being a rise from January.
2:44:45The south ends up being a draw.
2:44:48The midwest ends up being a draw.
2:44:51Now we look at busing.
2:44:53The south is very much the highest in favoring your busing home.
2:45:00In favoring busing.
2:45:02This is not your thing.
2:45:03That's a question we asked before we asked about the next event.
2:45:06We said, do you believe in busing?
2:45:09All right.
2:45:10Do you favor or oppose the busing of students on a compulsory basis in all parts of the country?
2:45:14The South fakers it, higher than any other region.
2:45:18And it's the lowest in a .
2:45:20Why is that?
2:45:22Well, I think maybe because we said in all parts of the country.
2:45:26What the South said is, we got it here, so screw the rest of it.
2:45:29That's it.
2:45:30Now, it is the big number only.
2:45:33In the country, only 17% paper.
2:45:34In the South, 20% paper.
2:45:37So it's not a big difference, but it is different.
2:45:41The South and the West,
2:45:43are the highest in favoring the Constitutional Amendment?
2:45:46In other words, the next question you ask is, is it currently a Constitutional Amendment being proposed in Congress to be in favor of both South and South Amendments?
2:45:55The South is 51 in favor of Constitutional Amendment.
2:45:58Nationally, it's 49, but in the East, it's 45.
2:46:00In the Midwest, 47.
2:46:00South and the West, it's 51.
2:46:04Yeah.
2:46:04What's the negative?
2:46:06Well, the negative is 37 nationally opposed to Constitutional Amendment.
2:46:12The East is 45.
2:46:14Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:46:15The Midwest is 40.
2:46:15Right.
2:46:16The South is 33.
2:46:16I'm sure your people have got pretty good sense, doesn't it?
2:46:19The South is 33.
2:46:19You know, those people don't go off wild about these amendments.
2:46:22They've already got pretty damn good sense.
2:46:25But then we asked about the Nixon speech.
2:46:29Did you see it?
2:46:30Now, the South was by far the highest, or substantially the highest, on having seen your speech on television.
2:46:38In other words, did you see the President's speech on TV?
2:46:41Nationally, it was 38 who saw TV.
2:46:44In the East, it was 38.
2:46:47The Midwest, 35.
2:46:47The South, 42.
2:46:48The West, 37.
2:46:48I'm surprised the West was that high, because it was... Well, no, you were late at night, so we did the West at 37.
2:46:57That's why the West was 37.
2:47:00But then, when he said... Is that a pretty low rate?
2:47:0337, 38.
2:47:07Uh, Ed Decker's 38, no?
2:47:08No.
2:47:08I guess not.
2:47:09Everybody has something to tell us.
2:47:13We've gone, we've gone.
2:47:15Now the TV rating on it was high.
2:47:18Yeah.
2:47:18People who said it, yeah.
2:47:19Uh, then when we added the other, did you, have you seen or read about it since then?
2:47:26Yeah, yeah, right.
2:47:27You got the total awareness.
2:47:29Yeah.
2:47:30Uh, the South was the lowest.
2:47:32No.
2:47:32No, they were all equal.
2:47:33Right, right.
2:47:33They were all equal.
2:47:3664, 64, 64, 64.
2:47:37West was a little bit lower.
2:47:42Then we, on the favorable, what was your reaction to it?
2:47:50There, the total favorable was 65.
2:47:53That's combining very favorable and somewhat favorable.
2:47:5865 favorable.
2:48:00But in the east it was 73.
2:48:03the Midwest 67, and the South 56, the West 65.
2:48:11Our problem in our drought in the South was an unfavorable reaction, not unfavorable, 56 was favorable.
2:48:17I know, but we didn't get the...
2:48:19But not as much favorable.
2:48:22Very good point.
2:48:23The South was lowest on our favorable, and they were highest on the unfavorable.
2:48:27The unfavorable in the nation was 27, and the South was 32.
2:48:32Now, that's not a big difference, but it is something.
2:48:38The conclusion is that the drop in the south was due to the busing.
2:48:46The drop in the west was not due to the busing.
2:48:51They say even it was due to IT&T.
2:48:53Now, the interesting thing there is the west is way minus on awareness on IT&T.
2:49:00And the South was the lowest.
2:49:03You had two major factors involved.
2:49:06One was ITT and the other was the bus.
2:49:10The South, it lost because of busing.
2:49:13The West, it lost because of ITT.
2:49:15And now, I looked at the trial heats.
2:49:18And we didn't do a trial heat after China.
2:49:22We only did it in January.
2:49:26And remember that there,
2:49:30on the overall basis approval was 54 54. all right
2:55:29That sapphire is perfect.
2:55:30Yep.
2:55:31Let me just see what it came up with.
2:55:38Got a handle for him.
2:55:40He's smart as hell.
2:55:41He gets it done.
2:55:44That's just perfect.
2:55:53We've got it screened up.
2:55:54Sapphire.
2:55:55Get the figure as to what the
2:55:57Of the 80 million American wage earners, the percentage of them are .
2:56:14Of the 80 million American wage earners, what percent of them are .
2:56:25You know that?
2:56:27And, uh, call them back when, uh, it doesn't seem to get on their mind.
2:56:32And I'm gonna say, hey, whatever, it's right.
2:56:36And you're checking.
2:56:38They'll say, I respect your offer, but it's past my permission to change.
2:56:45There's no reason to do that.
2:56:52You can't.
2:56:53I'm not going to do that.
2:56:56I'm not going to put that in.
2:56:59That's the last of it.
2:57:07Huh?
2:57:08I don't think I like it.
2:57:15Nobody hurt me very strongly here.
2:57:24Well, I wouldn't do that.
2:57:32And I was just thinking, where could I respond to that?
3:01:23that they're bound to be something that other people can find and take the other side on.
3:01:30I suppose we're looking all the time at the audience diversity and everybody's target.
3:01:39I hear a tape started swinging on me.
3:01:40I'm sorry if I can hear you too, sir.
3:01:44I can hear you.
3:01:45Question in the air.
3:01:48Six hour and a half sessions.
3:01:50Two a day, an hour and a half.
3:01:54Two, one and a half hour sessions each day for three days.
3:02:04Second half.
3:02:04Really good discussion.
3:02:05I'd like her to get on solidly unharmed in the first hour.
3:02:09And be unshakable for the second half hour.
3:02:10And have her come back for the afternoon session and have her start faking and have her die right in front of their very eyes.
3:02:16A little bit.
3:02:20Don't break down.
3:02:21Fall apart.
3:02:22Better roll.
3:02:23Better have it in there somewhere.
3:02:24Hold on.
3:02:25Pressure on.
3:02:29Nice and easy.
3:02:32Work every shot.
3:02:34You know, I look back on our own experience in the history of the fighters and the people who played in the media.
3:02:43Well, they played the stories, or did they keep us up to the mark with regard to the secrets?
3:02:49We've gotten stuff on that.
3:02:51The Times editorial.
3:02:52I was.
3:02:53And then Toledano dropped in some stuff on it.
3:02:55Yeah.
3:02:55Playing back on it.
3:02:59Did he?
3:03:00And Chuck Scott.
3:03:04The devil's anger, right?
3:03:08I feel recollection of the Washington poster, too.
3:03:10Yes.
3:03:11I guess not to brag about it, but there are all kinds of things that we're doing.
3:03:13This guy pulled out a new chart, and it's worse now because we didn't have dollars.
3:03:20They pulled it off, and it's much more good now.
3:03:22Well, God, you know, the talk should have been invited, and that's something that's not going to be shared.
3:03:34I'm going to go on my second day and I'm going to pick up the journey.
3:03:44After all, we've got to sign up.
3:03:45It doesn't look like we're going to be able to write it.
3:03:48This is natural for us to do the payboard today.
3:03:51That's another reason not to do it.
3:03:53We're doing the payboard today.
3:03:55We're also going to have to agree on the grades.
3:04:28for the intentions we have been making.
3:04:32A very fundamental error in relying on Henry is the selling of the, selling, basically the selling of the President as a foreign policy maker.
3:04:39And she's been a vital figure, and it's not really true.
3:04:43Because it can't do it.
3:04:46It won't.
3:04:49The President has just made sure to the degree that it can be done, that's for sure.
3:04:54It, it should, it will never get closed.
3:04:59The other one, the other one, of course, does rock you.
3:05:03Rock you to death and good.
3:05:04It just does, you know, makes it harder, you know, to make it better.
3:05:10How many of you have been in this, you know, the work of Jewish groups and others who are doing exercise that shows themselves off well?
3:05:24And that doesn't hurt us, understand, because we have a good, strong management.
3:05:29But that's not a story that's going to help us.
3:05:32It overlooks a huge opportunity we have to now investigate.
3:05:37I do not hear, I do not hear, for example, I heard out in Los Angeles that point being made, it shows you the greater performance, correct?
3:05:55You've got my memorandum of points that you might make if you rewrote it.
3:06:01I just said some of the things we've been talking about.
3:06:10I wrote it all off and I've given it a discount also.
3:06:20Well, there's nothing critical about making things in some better, easier way.
3:06:21That thing came up recently where I wrote?
3:06:24Yeah.
3:06:24Oh, the last thing.
3:06:25What about this thing that Tomlin constantly gets back to you about the leadership and all this?
3:06:45Are we going to go over that?
3:06:47He really hasn't had any opportunity every day.
3:06:55I think he would.
3:06:56He would, wouldn't he?
3:06:58He'd feel strongly, shouldn't he?
3:07:00But maybe he's right.
3:07:02Do you think there's this feeling?
3:07:03Now, you remember that as we were returning from China, you said, no, that's not me out there so much.
3:07:12You know what I mean?
3:07:13You don't destroy the image of someone of a distance and so forth and so on, have you?
3:07:18You notice how he brought it in here.
3:07:20Sure, we're going on this issue.
3:07:21We're going out for drugs.
3:07:22But what about the general propositions?
3:07:25that people think that it's a vacuum of leadership.
3:07:28I would probably be out there saying more often.
3:07:33There's something that I suppose Clark was saying this morning that Johnny Burns, Jerry Boyd, and a couple others hit him yesterday with the point that if the president can take prime time to talk about busing, which is a big issue, but a concern really only to certain people, that he sure as hell ought to take prime time and talk about meaning more than off the paper.
3:07:59That's not a fair comparison, but it indicates a feeling on their part of the same kind of thing, in a sense, that they always look good, you know, and you have the presence to go on TV.
3:08:11And you'll be on TV, on the news, and I think that's what you should do.
3:08:16This one, I think you'd make a mistake if you were in front of the camera.
3:08:21So we, you know, even if we hadn't done busing and they could go on, on prime time and escalate this to this point, uh, we're not leaving.
3:08:27It's exciting.
3:08:27It isn't something you...
3:08:29The busing thing was a different kind of thing.
3:08:31We had to do that to get your very, very deep emotional distribution.
3:08:37This one isn't.
3:08:38This one isn't.
3:08:38It's important, indeed.
3:08:44But it's not as personally important.
3:08:48We all started out, we just haven't got much morale down there in the conference room, you know, pitching and all.
3:08:55No, they weren't pitching.
3:08:56They were very positive.
3:08:58They think you know something.
3:09:00They were.
3:09:01And all our group, to me, is one of the things you've got to have is them going for you.
3:09:09Yeah.
3:09:09What I meant is positive in terms of...
3:09:12what we are doing today.
3:09:13They appreciate what we do on the drug thing, for example, and all this other crap.
3:09:17Yeah, but they're not terrible.
3:09:18Most of those guys don't know how much work you have to do.
3:09:24Getting back to the cognizant part of that.
3:09:29Drugs.
3:09:30Drugs, dry coils.
3:09:41Two nights in a row, right?
3:09:44They were on.

Nixon, Haldeman & Ehrlichman on Busing legislation and Pay Board

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 23, 1972

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