Nixon, Ehrlichman & Haldeman on Pay Board and George Meany

0:32I mean, what does it do, Daddy?
0:35Do we get too shot at?
0:36I don't know.
0:40Why would you just hand out a written statement?
0:42You can have a lawyer.
0:44You can have a long written statement and a short... Well, not too long.
0:49No, I'm just thinking of ways to dominate that.
0:53But I agree, if I go on...
0:57They're bound to try to then, with anybody else, they're bound then to try to pick up something.
1:02They'll pick up somebody that can't react, picking that up.
1:05I think he's got a good chance to get down on the floor and knock him out.
1:10What happens if I interview somebody that can't react?
1:13They'll try, but we want a very strong public statement at 4 o'clock, and a written statement, too.
1:20You can say almost anything you haven't said.
1:25Well, now, the statement has to be, let me say, I don't want some half-assed statement about an old gobbledygook about how we're going to set up a payboard, public members and all that business.
1:34Send it to people in the dam about that.
1:37The statement should be basically gay, rhetoric, rhetoric, with a hell of a kick in the ass for me.
1:44Got to be in there.
1:45Got to be in there.
1:46Or I guess I should have stood there and believed that it's not going to work unless you kick in the ass.
1:50You've got to have a devil, which is one of the times that that theory works.
1:54He's asked for it.
1:55He's going to get it.
1:57He's going to get it firmly and strongly, but not angrily.
2:01And assuming there's going to be a strike on the west coast, which I think is... You mean at the Gongshar?
2:08At some point this next week, there's probably going to be a strike.
2:12And I think assuming that, I think it's important that they have seen that the linkage takes place.
2:17What?
2:17And you say that if there's a strike, we'll tell all the troops?
2:21No, sir.
2:22I was thinking more that...
2:24I even had a good editorial.
2:29Now, there's one interesting set of facts in there that Don didn't give me.
2:49that I think would be appropriate, just to give you a beat for how many times the legislative members of the paper would have been in the majority.
2:58Just to give you a feel, just to make sure I'm outweighed.
3:04Look, I don't need to feel.
3:06I am outweighed.
3:07I just regret all the goddamn freedom I've been sent in.
3:23Yeah.
3:24Well, look.
3:25We'll, uh... What you have to do is to... We have the wall.
3:48You see, this puts a, it's going to put quite a problem up to the members of Congress, to the candidates, you know, whether they're going to support me or not.
3:59Humphrey has to, he must be coming out in favor of the full-blown Europe.
4:04Humphrey has to.
4:05Humphrey and Meany are playing off against each other on the busing statement and on the health care statement.
4:13I mean, Humphrey's thing, it looks almost certain to me.
4:18They probably are.
4:18Well, by the way, the first time Kubrick's ever been orchestrated.
4:23Well, it won't stay that way long.
4:26He's a tune now.
4:27He's modern music with all the distortion that has to be in it.
4:32But if you pick me, I'm pretty sure we'll say ouch.
4:40No question.
4:43Ouch.
4:43So musky.
4:45Well, musky is woodcut.
4:46It's musky.
4:51Muskie's got to stay with it.
4:54Muskie has to.
4:55Jackson will have to stay with it.
4:58Well, we understand that's a political matter, but we want to be on the right side of fighting increases of wages that will result in increases in prices.
5:07It's got to be a good argument.
5:09It's done, and it should be written in a statement that I read.
5:14What do you think, John?
5:15I'm not living an answer to a question.
5:17That's another possibility.
5:20What I could do would be to go on prime time, not prime time, but half prime time, 7.30, and hold a press conference with a statement on it.
5:28The difficulty with that is that the press conference is still around, and, you know, it'll all be dissipated by the time we get through.
5:34They'll mean to get into all sorts of other things.
5:37We need confusion among the mind.
5:39We might as well let this one ride as the evening starts.
5:42Don't you agree?
5:46It's good to dilute.
5:47That's the whole point.
5:48I think it's too good to go up to that level.
5:51I wish we could... You mean to meet and walk out and give out an answer?
5:54Yeah, sure.
5:55No, I mean, no, we've got to have an answer.
5:58What about going up to 9730?
6:01I was going to suggest that.
6:04I mean, you write 150 words and go out and walk around.
6:08Well, now, wait a minute, wait a minute.
6:10You mean you'd...
6:11You'd ask right now for time at 7.30.
6:13Five minutes.
6:14Five minutes.
6:14You'd save less than five minutes.
6:16Then you'd go on.
6:20The news is over.
6:22Everybody's seen the news.
6:24Do you want to use the metro?
6:26Right there.
6:27Right.
6:27Good.
6:27Well.
6:28So that he doesn't get any extra ride.
6:33He sticks his head up and he laps it off before him.
6:44Rather than doing it in the evening.
6:49You on the three networks have a far bigger audience in the evening news.
6:53I know, I know.
6:54And all together.
6:54I wonder if you can... Well, let's see if we're... Well, let's see if we're building up... And that would put you on the evening news.
7:06Yeah, I understand, I understand.
7:07That's the public, that's the people.
7:09I'm just thinking a minute about what we're doing now.
7:12Why...
7:13Frantically calling through networks and saying, I'm going to go on at 7.30 tonight.
7:22Come on.
7:22The other side of that thought is that he's not yet been on television.
7:27There are a lot of people in this country who don't know yet that he should call us.
7:32He will after the evening news.
7:33Yes, that's what I've seen.
7:35His press conference said it was at 2.00.
7:39It was at 1.00.
7:41Well, then you're doing something that you don't have all the time.
8:01The problem that you have too is that I don't like to
8:10I don't think it's frankly measured enough.
8:14It may look like an emotional, violent reaction to something, whereas it should be a very measured and tough reaction after consideration.
8:34I have a little of that feel to it that I...
8:37Well, they may think you're reacting too quickly right now, but you ought to do something to build it up tomorrow, some kind of meeting of the Costa Living Council or something.
8:50Yeah.
8:50If something were announced tonight in the front, what would that mean?
8:55Our television center, the president, his arcade people?
8:57I've got an idea.
8:58I've got an idea.
8:59I think we could make a damn good idea.
9:01We'll build this thing up until all will have it.
9:04I think we ought to have a meeting at 3 o'clock.
9:19Tomorrow at 3?
9:20Right.
9:21And then I'll walk out of the meeting at 4.
9:32By the way, does that give enough that we meet across the country?
9:35Or would it be better if we do it in the morning?
9:40And then tell us what I'm thinking of.
9:43I'm thinking of a, you know, we make the decision in the morning, and then go out in the afternoon and read the statement.
9:51What's the better way?
9:55Or do I meet across the living council and say I'd like to make a statement?
9:58I want it.
9:59I want to discuss it with the members of the Constitutional Council, and I'll approve it at 4 o'clock at Waterwalk.
10:04I would think you ought to.
10:06I think this ought to be an action that you take.
10:08And I think we ought to.
10:09We've got a meeting scheduled at 3 o'clock, and you just say, here's a statement I'm supposed to make, and I don't want to do it without informing you, but I'm going to invest it into your practice.
10:21Well, I won't.
10:46I think what you don't want to do is give the impression of deliberate indecision.
10:55Maybe he has posed the issue very clearly right here.
10:59One line.
11:00It's just like he did the day before.
11:04Let the people who are exercising the power take the full responsibility for this without the facade of labor representation.
11:17Why don't we just say that they...
11:41I know that.
11:41I know that.
11:42What we're trying to do, Bob, is to build up my statement for tomorrow night.
11:45Isn't that what you're trying to do?
11:47Right.
11:48You just said tonight that the president will make a statement tomorrow.
11:52You said that much.
11:56I guess I'm afraid Sigler, I think maybe we've crossed that bridge with Madonna in one sense, but Sigler was already making a very, you'll see a statement has already been made.
12:19Now the question now is the action.
12:22Right.
12:27I think you could say that we could say that it's the president.
12:31I think actually the president will be across the living council tomorrow.
12:39You don't like that?
12:41How about if you met with him very early?
12:44Sigler had a mid-morning briefing and said the president was across the living council this morning and announced today the steps which he would take.
12:57He will have an announcement to make for the cameras later today.
13:01I don't know what that implies for you.
13:08Well, that you have responded decisively, that you knew what you were going to do, that there was no delay in your response.
13:18What harm is there in us saying that we're going to meet with customers tomorrow?
13:26It feels like you're taking advice.
13:28Actually, it's a little too late.
13:30It's really too late to make the decision.
13:33I'm afraid you are.
13:35No objection to that.
13:36Thank you, Mr. President.
13:39As long as you're telling us what you're going to do.
13:44I agree.
13:45Because we've got a plan.
13:48We've got a plan.
13:50And it's just a fact.
13:52Well, I think it's just... Well, I think it's a fact.
13:56I really think that's what it gets to.
13:59You don't need us to advise you what to do.
14:01All right, use us or just show the cost of the account for the purpose of telling us what to do.
14:07The cost of the account is the form of the course of action that he has decided upon to deal with this problem.
14:14What about Eddie and George Bolton?
14:17Are you not supposed to be independent?
14:29Well, how would I do that?
14:32You're there.
14:35I wouldn't do it.
14:37I'm not sure if that's true, but I don't think they can start people with that big word in Christ's name.
14:48Maybe I have to do it.
14:50I don't know if I can do it.
15:51Well, let's think just a minute about whether Fitz being on there makes his position.
16:18Well, first of all, I think he ought to decide whether or not he's going to take it.
16:22Well, that's what I think is the problem.
16:25And secondly, I don't see anything wrong with it.
16:27I don't mind having it basically based on a house label.
16:30It's what he wants it to be.
16:33Well, I'll just say that, sure, we've asked him still, we're going to have one businessman.
16:37Be sure that all labor and all business in these fields, they have one person that they can talk to and pass any ideas or suggestions that they have.
16:42I think what really probably gets worried is how much people are interested in the only people that the administration has in labor.
16:55I might do that.
16:55I didn't know a lot about having ministers and nobody.
16:58That's right.
17:01I don't know if that's a good sentence.
17:30That rationale helps us to reconstruct the picture of... And as a matter of fact, the paint is rather close to those dark ones.
17:38But you know, Bob suggests the borderline is not that big.
17:44Maybe Bob should add it.
17:45No, because you put Dunlop in a position where he can't operate as freely as Dunlop.
17:50Yes, it is.
17:50That thing is going so well, I think the problem is... Let's don't service that boat.
17:54Let's don't service it anymore, because their rates are still pretty high.
17:58Yeah, that's just got out.
17:59It's still at 9%.
17:59The other problem is, would you agree that meaning will put pressure on the stores to try to cave in?
18:07He isn't going to want that to continue in succession.
18:12Construction?
18:13Yeah.
18:13No, he doesn't dare.
18:14They won't.
18:15They won't.
18:15They won't.
18:16No, they won't.
18:18But that's where I wouldn't get that...
18:20But I think this is the statement that we perhaps don't want to single out, instructing the same thing about it.
18:33The outstatement has to be of such a nature that it doesn't corrode those unions that are instructing for it to feel that they have to react to it.
18:50Let me come to the proposition then again, how we work on the game plan.
18:59We already have what we should do tomorrow, since you got across to the City Council, and you set a free clock.
19:11What are three of them?
19:12We have to move the tree.
19:13We have to move it anywhere you want.
19:14So that I can hit the television.
19:15I can't do television later than four.
19:17But then I'd come in, and then I'd walk out and read the statement and follow it back.
19:19See, but one could say that you're making a decision that you are not communicating with the people at the table, but the rest of the council are afraid of that.
19:34I want to ask you there, what do you think?
20:14I think this is a good plan.
20:163 o'clock tomorrow.
20:23Now, who does what?
20:32We start working on the safety.
20:42We had some work started, but we really haven't known quite where we're going.
20:46We have a little thing.
20:47I guess one thing, we've got to have a statement.
20:49And then some, a little more length.
20:53Not too much length, but we'll spell it out.
20:56And then somebody's got to prepare a good television statement for me to make.
21:04Which I should have, it's really, I should have it in the morning.
21:09By, you know, by, you know, we say 11 o'clock.
21:11So I can work on it.
21:13Get it ready, get it prepared, and all that.
21:20That's not all right.
21:21That's doable.
21:22On mine, I think you could have sapphire crack it.
21:29After that, you've got a substitute.
21:44We'll meet.
21:45We'll make, you know, we'll definitely have a story tomorrow night.
21:55You know, somebody's got a bigger idea.
21:56And then Herb will go on and do your briefing of separately in the morning at 10 o'clock.
22:03That's good.
22:03I think that should be separate by all means.
22:08What will is a story.
22:09But I think on the other hand, it's two stories.
22:11We'll hit the afternoon.
22:13Yeah.
22:14That's right.
22:17That's right.
22:18We will go forward with the game plan.
22:29Now, we'll keep the same muckers that we pulled from this function until we come to court.
23:06You've got a problem, Mr. President, because their leader, he is Virgil Day, where there's someone other than Virgil Day.
23:12Well, it's a presumption it would be Virgil Day.
23:16He has been very, very, you know, in the light of the press.
23:22He's in a very humble position right now.
23:30I won't do it.
23:31You can't keep the air leader because the leader's leader is gone, so you can't keep business leaders gone.
23:37The other electrical ones would be Piagini or Ramos and Celiana.
23:41I'd much prefer Piagini.
23:42Ramos and Celiana.
23:44Celiana looks like he's in-house.
23:45He was farmer in the government and the rest.
23:48Piagini is, I think, a reasonable, strong man.
23:52He's a great man.
23:55He's a good man.
23:59Yes, it would be a good way.
24:01Biogeny.
24:01Biogeny.
24:01I just know that's the one I'd do it as a father.
24:03If you'll do it.
24:04You can have biogeny on the one side, and pits on the other side, because that's a good man.
24:08Oh.
24:08That's exactly what I'm thinking.
24:13And biogeny is a good way to do it.
24:19Sure.
24:19He's got a travel problem.
24:22He's kind of eager to get off.
24:25Whereas Day has lots of time.
24:26Well, the hell with Day.
24:27That's a problem.
24:28Today's Day is in a position where he's in a good fight to make it.
24:35Well, you see, Rocco... Maybe Rocco's all right.
24:40I've never had any trouble with Bruce.
24:42He does program somewhat.
24:47Um...
24:48I don't know.
24:50Well, why don't you all think about it?
24:56Give a word about it real quick.
25:08You who work with him, I don't know.
25:10You don't?
25:11I don't know.
25:12But Biagini is the best man, but if he wants to get off, it's not fair to him.
25:16Biagini and Rocco would be the best guys.
25:22Why not Rocco?
25:24I don't think Rocco would be bad.
25:26Rocco is a sound, evil god, and a little inside ball player.
25:32What difference does it make?
25:34I don't know.
25:35He's got a labor and a business background.
25:38The long shot.
25:39Yeah, the long shot.
25:41Well, it's not a bad idea.
25:42That's a good thing for me.
25:43I don't have any problems with it.
25:45I don't have any problems with the long shot.
25:51And it doesn't make it much different to just get somebody to work with.
25:55That's right.
25:56Rocko, I know.
25:57I know you can work with Rocko.
25:59I like that.
25:59Yeah, yeah.
26:00I think they're the best for that.
26:01Businessmen and so forth.
26:02Now, in the meantime, can I suggest this thing?
26:05This is a statement that I made, but I didn't take very good use of it.
26:11A follow-up for administration, I think, on a good statement.
26:20We knew Don and followed him in.
26:21We remember he had a battle now.
26:24And we had to start a plan.
26:26I don't remember.
26:27He was saying that we would get back into some of this stuff.
26:32I don't know.
26:33I had a thousand thoughts.
26:34I don't know what to say.
26:36Oh, I can say a lot of things.
26:38I'm going to speak for the Homosex Club in Boston Friday night.
26:41I can say a lot of things.
26:42Great.
26:43That's a nice club.
26:43I didn't know you were doing it in a place like that.
26:45Well, I don't know.
26:47I spoke to the Middlesex Club.
26:49That's a really elite place.
26:51You're the right breed for that.
26:54I am the only Democrat in the 170 year history of the Middlesex Club.
27:00That's the Middlesex.
27:01You're the elite of Boston.
27:03That's right.
27:05They all hold their cups with a little water.
27:09I thought I'd make pretty tough speeches.
27:12Do it.
27:14They need a little spine.
27:20You know, that's good.
27:24In this case, this would be a follow-up.
27:32I'm thinking, I'm trying to think of whether... Well...
27:42Next week, for example, there should be a follow-up.
27:48For whatever is worse, is there... Are any of those talk shows open?
27:56No, closed.
27:57They're closed for this Sunday.
28:01Well, that next time is too late.
28:06We can have a day show.
28:08Yeah.
28:08Well... You're right.
28:09You're right.
28:09I'm just thinking of a type of question.
28:15Well, well, let me say, John is about to drive today, he reaches a hell of a long bar that he's never driven before.
28:41Uh...
28:46The, uh...
28:46They said, okay, let's do everything we can.
28:54Make every engagement of that kind we can.
28:59Well, I can go over the pressure.
29:02I'm sure that we can do it.
29:05Did you do it about funding or something?
29:07I don't know.
29:08I don't know what kind of fail.
29:10In fact, there was an outstanding invitation from McDowell, Mr. John.
29:15Yeah.
29:15Yeah.
29:15Incidentally, you don't think you could do it Friday morning?
29:23It's going to be a hot thing, I know.
29:27Then see, I'll come on at 3 o'clock, presumably, and you'll press me in office where I'll get another question and chance to wrap it up again.
29:40We now have to take the hard line.
29:43We got the facts, you see.
29:45I mean, he had been meeting since November the 8th.
29:50I mean, he only attended... Well, I don't blame him.
29:54He's obviously had a little bit of responsibility.
29:59He had been meeting since November the 8th, and I think he probably would have got on.
30:03He should have put somebody else on.
30:05He did.
30:06And he did put somebody on in his altar.
30:10I don't want to explain that.
30:12Exactly right.
30:14I think doing today on Friday morning is a very good idea.
30:25Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:29Today's Wednesday.
30:32We've got today, Friday morning.
30:41Can you do it?
30:42Oh sure, I'm sure I can.
30:44We can follow that.
30:45Good.
30:46Now you get that.
30:49But on this subject, that's what they'll say.
30:51Well, I'm not sure we're doing well, sir.
30:54But I'm going to start with this one.
30:57We want to tell them they're interested in this subject.
31:01You know, of course, you can't hold it until they want another thing.
31:08Do they have to not take that, or do they...
31:10No, they used to do it behind the scenes.
31:12Well, I would imagine the easiest thing.
31:14You've got to go to the studio.
31:15Oh, sure.
31:15You've got to go to the studio.
31:17It's much better.
31:18You get a better picture.
31:19Or go to New York.
31:20No, they'd rather do it here.
31:21Yeah.
31:22We'd rather do it here.
31:22Arrange that way.
31:23You're better off doing it here, because then you get a Washington reporter.
31:27You go to New York, and you get the cats.
31:31Yeah.
31:38How about bumping green for Rumsfeldmont or something like that?
31:48It's about how I will do it.
31:50It's about what I will do.
31:51I will probably try to get green in it.
32:07We want to make a decision where it is.
32:35Now I'm done, and what shall we do, Green?
32:39I'll tell you, if you want to go out, if you want to go out, it's very important not to go out to the press.
32:51There's no need for them to... Well, that's what he wants to do, that's all.
32:57Well, oh, that's what he wants to do.
33:00Well, then, if that's the case, then there's no need to see them on.
33:06I know we were doing good, and you can get it over with.
33:09All right, fine.
33:12Well, we'll work that out.
33:15Well, this is fine.
33:16Very helpful.
33:17I appreciate your work.
33:19It's only five minutes after six.
33:21So long.
33:22Thank you very much.
33:23Take the rest of the afternoon off.
33:32Good luck, Kirk.
33:35Get a little meaner.
33:37I like your humor, but you used to throw the dagger in down there, too.
33:41I watched it.
33:42Very good.
33:43Very good.
33:44I think you've got a damn good I want to get it better, and I want you to prepare an answer to a question for me on this, on the CPI if you would, you know.
33:54But let me tell you that I can recently say the wage price control system is working, and
34:03So we got a 6% number, but looking at the general component, food is always volatile and so forth, but it is working.
34:10We've got a continuum, and we expect it to go down.
34:13Are we going to meet our goal of 2.5%, 3%, huh?
34:15Yeah, well, I think we look very good today.
34:21Do you?
34:21Yeah.
34:24We were prepared for this.
34:26We were not prepared for this.
34:32And I just couldn't even go longer than that.
34:35This thing is working.
34:36We're not over here.
34:38Can I ask you something, Herb?
34:40I want to ask you here.
34:46Could we just throw a breeze on food prices?
34:51We discussed that before.
34:53Yeah, if you don't mind.
34:56I don't...
34:59Good work.
35:01New day respite from the food price thing, and also the food price thing is going through.
35:20Yes.
35:45Why don't we do it about the 1st of September?
35:52It's made up.
35:56Right.
35:57All right.
36:00All good?
36:02How do you get along with your new member?
36:08Does she behave?
36:09Sure.
36:10How's it going?
36:16Well, I mean, it's all right with me, but, you know, but get Edwin Solomon out, he's good.
36:20I mean, the thing we have now are three members of the council who are articulate, and that's damn good.
36:27You know, you're all articulate people, and I think it's good when you go out there and don't worry about it if somebody's feeling about this and that, and you haven't gotten down a drop.
36:40If you believe them.
36:41Well, we can do whatever we want.
36:42I did.
36:43Good luck tomorrow at 11 o'clock.
36:47You, uh... You actually didn't go there because I was looking at you.
37:03Sure.
37:06I appreciate it.
37:07I appreciate it.
37:13The state department has been putting
37:43like putting out the green head to go around and salvage your communique.
37:50And that's just giving... You've seen a bunch of that.
37:53No, there hasn't been any of it.
37:55It's just that's a...
37:57I haven't seen a thing under the summary on that.
38:00There hasn't been anything.
38:02There may have been in some obscure column in some place, but it's not been a...
38:07It's something Henry dreamed up.
38:09But... Why the hell doesn't he go to the beach?
38:12The other thing is...
38:13He isn't...
38:15He's also concerned that if he goes out to the press, that it will inevitably focus on Taiwan, which he feels is not to our interest to raise, and who hurts with the Chinese.
38:29We don't have anything to gain from him.
38:33He's going to be on Meet the Press, so he's going to get it anyway.
38:40He should have had a chance to report to you.
38:47One thing I wonder is whether you want to consider, which might not be a bad idea at all, having the press conference in Florida.
39:11I need the time to be ready for it.
39:14I was thinking about one time when our PR would be bad.
39:17It doesn't cost a lot of money.
39:21I mean, I mean, he fights and all the rest, and I go lollygagging around the floor.
39:26It's just not the right thing.
39:30It really isn't the right thing.
39:32No, I should be here now.
39:33I mean, I felt that.
39:36I've got a canteen Friday night.
39:39And I'll do the press thing Friday at 3 o'clock.
39:42It's not a bad time, you know.
39:47Fair enough.
39:48Good.
39:50Press Friday is really, with all of this, is much better.
39:55When you get this story done, you've got a whole backwash of a lot of stuff that washes away IT&T, which is kind of clumped off into nothing.
40:04For a while.
40:05For a while.
40:07Then you have a press conference where they're going to focus on this, and then they're going to talk about foreign policy, and they'll have to hit the IT&T questions, but it ain't going to be all that much.
40:21Look, I've got the questions that I've been working on today, and I can do it now, but... Am I holding you?
40:28Yeah, I've got to go.
40:29Yeah, well, I've got to say, let me walk now.
40:32I want to finish my...
40:35I've decided on a very different approach than Buchanan.
40:40I mean, he has some...
40:43I'm not going to talk about as many candidates.
40:46He thinks it's a great opportunity, you know, to attack the racists and so forth, those that use racism.
40:52I'm not going to say...
40:53I'm going to say that the matter is under investigation, and I'm not going to take away him with regard to the things.
41:00Hello, this one.
41:03There.
41:04And that's
41:06That's what you're doing, and I'm going to do it.
41:08If I were not on TV, you see, if I were on TV, I'd have to be a little more responsive, and I'm going to knock off my TV, and I'm going to knock off the light magazines, and just respond to that.
41:22What about when he's made a whole statement about that?
41:26Or a visitor responds to that, and I'm like, yeah, just jump to that, and I'm like, what are you?
41:33You know, that's what Colonel Roosevelt used to do when I was trying to get my hands.
41:37But I don't have any no time to do that.
41:38I've got to walk.
41:40I've got to do what I have to do.

Nixon, Ehrlichman & Haldeman on Pay Board and George Meany

AI Summary

Audio

Transcript (AI-generated)

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 22, 1972

Cite this conversation