Nixon, Kissinger & Huebner on Vietnam War and Soviet Union

4:02:17Are you ready to take off now for New York?
4:02:20All right.
4:02:24Come over now.
4:02:26Bye.
4:02:26We'll give him a call.
4:02:33It'll probably be 3.15 or 3.30.
4:02:36He's talking to the police.
4:02:39Bye.
4:02:39Have a nice day.
4:02:41Bye.
4:02:46Oh, fine, fine.
4:02:55You can pick those things up and open them.
4:04:41Ja.
4:04:41Ja.
4:04:42Ja.
4:04:42Ja.
4:04:42Ja.
4:04:43Ja.
4:04:43Ja.
4:04:43Ja.
4:04:44Ja.
4:04:44Ja.
4:05:09Oh, fine, fine.
4:05:21You can pick those things up and open them.
4:05:25Thank you.
4:07:07Now he's blubbered.
4:07:07He says, one, what can I show you?
4:07:12This way, before he gets back to Moscow.
4:07:16This way.
4:07:16This is communication.
4:07:17Second, what can I show you?
4:07:19It's the most urgent touch right now.
4:07:30He said they have a terrible problem.
4:07:35For one time religion is good.
4:07:38He said, he doesn't give me the bullshit about peace, how tough, when he doesn't play, he's put upon, and he's serious.
4:07:47He said, let's not assess blame, let's not, let's not do anything, let's just ask ourselves what can be done.
4:07:53He says, we can't turn, we can't turn them off,
4:08:01From one day to the next evening, he will activate the other veterinary specimens, which is very interesting.
4:08:11It will take three months to take effect.
4:08:12He said, we'll catch them, they are only 24.
4:08:19Even though you can't do this, that's what he said.
4:08:23He said, that he's not sure.
4:08:24Or he thinks he's not sure.
4:08:25He said, however, they have markups, and right now, all technicians are known.
4:08:28There's, uh,
4:08:30that he hurts the stomach of a northern Tibetan from somewhere.
4:08:36Therefore, can I make some proposition, any proposition, that they can transmit to the north?
4:08:45I said, I don't know.
4:08:46President has said, we hate boys.
4:08:49We can't do that.
4:08:51He said, can we at least tell them that you're willing to negotiate it?
4:08:59He said to me for the first time, I forget his name.
4:09:05You are not serious.
4:09:09Frankly, I could have given him some cash.
4:09:12I said, I've got to talk to the president.
4:09:13He said, I said, are you sure you can see me tomorrow?
4:09:20I said, I'll talk to the president.
4:09:27I said, may I tell them to go get me something tomorrow?
4:09:29I said, I don't have this small of a difference of consent.
4:09:34What you will decide, I'll hand it over to you before you make these decisions.
4:09:44I didn't want to talk about it.
4:09:45But, I can tell, we haven't closed the dry system yet.
4:09:47I can tell when these guys don't see it.
4:09:49Then he said something.
4:09:51I must tell you the whole thing.
4:09:57He said,
4:09:58He believes that if I could go to the treasurer, if I could know their secrets, they would break everything.
4:10:06And could I go for some days prior to the tragedy, they would guarantee total secrecy.
4:10:13They would let me fly in on military rules.
4:10:16You know, I'd cover for you if you had no problem.
4:10:21And why don't we tell them?
4:10:22I believe... That doesn't give them anything to tell.
4:10:23Yeah.
4:10:24Why don't they tell him?
4:10:25Why don't they tell him anything?
4:10:26Yeah.
4:10:27But you see, I believe, Mr. President, if it turns out, rather than our giving anything to Hanoi now, why don't we say to give our full trust to Hanoi now?
4:10:36We can do two things, Mr. President.
4:10:41And the other thing I was thinking, I would recommend to Bill Taylor.
4:10:46We were going to have to catch the 24-4, but now I'm going to find him myself.
4:10:51I put off the meeting with the Chinese, but he was really serious.
4:10:54He said, how about the Chinese?
4:10:57What if the Chinese turn against us?
4:10:59I said, I don't know if you want to leave and pull over Vietnam.
4:11:09We don't need the Chinese.
4:11:11I can easily give him a general formula tomorrow that doesn't give him anything.
4:11:17Plus, if I said I'll go there secretly before the 24th, provided there's a meeting on the 24th.
4:11:24How about this?
4:11:30How about telling the children?
4:11:38Well, let me see.
4:11:38I'm trying to think of games now for a minute.
4:11:41You know, I'm all for atmosphere, and I'm not much for substance.
4:11:44That is, giving them atmosphere is not...
4:11:51I think so.
4:11:52But I think they're going to Russia.
4:11:54If they can guarantee secrecy to Russia, I think you should go to Russia.
4:11:59But you see, I believe, Mr. President, also there's some advantage in your sort of finding out what's right and what's wrong.
4:12:08You see, I could also set up this thing for you that in such a way that the way we have to chose that can set up.
4:12:18You'll guarantee secrecy if you don't know what it is.
4:12:37See, this will put more heat on the Russians.
4:12:39We have to make two conditions.
4:12:41One is, I can go home and they deliver this.
4:12:44That is just delivering them.
4:12:46They'll be there in 24 hours.
4:12:47They've been delivered 12 times.
4:12:50No, they've never been delivered.
4:12:52All right, okay.
4:12:55This time, as I've told them, they may deliver it.
4:12:58Well, I understand.
4:12:58They will talk to me each time.
4:13:01And we haven't got to spend more time with them.
4:13:03If they see me, this will be it.
4:13:06President seized me after what we are doing to Hanoi.
4:13:09I said to him, for example, look, we are trying to take increasingly strong military methods before the 24th.
4:13:17I just want you to know that.
4:13:19So those few people don't feel we are fooling them.
4:13:22He said, are you going to attack our ships?
4:13:25I said, I can't tell you anything, but until the 24th, we will try to exercise as much restraint as the situation permits.
4:13:33But, if these guys see us,
4:13:36As long as it's operating on the way.
4:13:38Either way.
4:13:38If they keep it secret, they have more of an incentive to keep it secret than we.
4:13:49Yeah.
4:13:49The Russians.
4:13:50Yes.
4:13:50Because...
4:13:50But I'm getting down.
4:13:51I still get back to the fundamental thing.
4:13:54I don't know what's... What effect does it have on Hanoi?
4:13:58On the way to an end of disaster.
4:14:00Is that true?
4:14:03On the Russians?
4:14:04And I go to Russia before I see them.
4:14:11And again, it puts us in trouble if it ever does come out.
4:14:19But it won't come out.
4:14:20We don't care.
4:14:21But I think, Mr. President, I have a lot of experience with these guys now.
4:14:33And I can assure, I can tell you, they are cracking.
4:14:36He said Mrs. McCormick was moved to tears by Mrs. McCormick, and has written a personal letter to Mrs. President.
4:14:50I told him, look at this position.
4:14:52I think the Russians want to talk to you.
4:14:56The opposition of President depends on this government, sir.
4:15:02He said he is.
4:15:31Or he be caught.
4:15:34Well, I said to him, he said, he asked me what I thought of how this was handled, and I said that I know the technique, but you see to it that you always take out all the loose chains and slide them out, and you lose all your good will that way.
4:15:55He said, I said, but how can I do that?
4:15:56I said, there's nothing better.
4:15:59You never fix up your strength, but let me prove it for all of you.
4:16:06Remember that, let me see how you're doing.
4:16:12I said, we do think that, we said, how is this going to work?
4:16:17Do you think you're going to keep us sitting out there?
4:16:24President,
4:16:25What do you think?
4:16:27I believe it's really a secret trip on me.
4:16:30I had cruel anti-advantages.
4:16:32They're so panting after us that any slight chance they might feel they're attacking us over what they're going to do would disappear.
4:16:38A secret trip could be taken.
4:16:41Let's figure out what you could give them.
4:16:47Nothing.
4:16:51That's before what you would say to them.
4:16:54Mr. President, it would be a mistake to give them anything to deserve.
4:17:05I agree that we've got their needs taken care of.
4:17:13Correct.
4:17:15I think going to Russia is giving them something.
4:17:22We won't ask you to surrender, or we won't.
4:17:43I'll just give the general government the truth, which commits us to nothing.
4:17:48But also that it has to be done now.
4:17:50But we must now bring the truth towards us.
4:17:56And I tell you, Mr. President, every instinct I have, I have never said to you that we have a chance in any particular time.
4:18:05But we've never had enough begging answers for specific reasons.
4:18:16I mean...
4:18:41But what I think I would like to do now is to tell him that you're considering this trip idea, because when you're hit with a T-52, then we have the pressure to protest.
4:18:51Tell him that way.
4:18:52I won't tell him that you have to do the route, but I'll tell him you are accurate.
4:18:57Tell him he can tell his government.
4:18:58There's a friend, Tom, who's going to Camp David tonight.
4:19:00He says that he will want to do things, that he will listen to the chances.
4:19:08We should take a trip.
4:19:10We'd like to see what, but he wants to see their message first.
4:19:14How's that?
4:19:15They didn't say that.
4:19:16Then tell him he...
4:19:17I think we ought to still make the Canadian thing.
4:19:22I've got a domestic problem here, too, you know.
4:19:26Can you make mine?
4:19:28I'll make it.
4:19:28It's time.
4:19:28It was decent, mind you.
4:19:33It has to be set for the Chinese, too.
4:19:36If you pull this one off...
4:19:40I will guarantee you one thing, Mr. President.
4:19:44Not guaranteed.
4:19:50I think there is a two chance out of three that we can stop the war for the rest of this year.
4:20:08That's the minimum I think we can get.
4:20:11Whether we can stop it altogether, I don't know.
4:20:16But that I think we can get.
4:20:19Yeah.
4:20:20They just made very good changes, aren't they?
4:20:24Henry has approved some more changes.
4:20:26Yeah, you go for it.
4:20:27This is all right as far as you're concerned, huh?
4:20:31Yes.
4:20:31That's one sentence that was questioned, and everything should stay in.
4:20:42I'm hearing this sound here.
4:21:11Disrespect and special responsibility falls upon great powers.
4:21:13You cannot avoid responsibility.
4:21:14Hey, James, that paragraph, that's the big paragraph.
4:21:21What I'd like to do is just go try and turn that into the same tone as the rest of it.
4:21:26Oh, I don't know.
4:21:27The tone's got to be tougher.
4:21:28It's got to be, I don't want it to double either.
4:21:31It usually comes out of the staff.
4:21:33It's got to be this tone.
4:21:34Right?
4:21:34You want to soften it down?
4:21:34No, I'm not softening it.
4:21:35I'm just going to...
4:21:36The tone of the sentence is a much longer...
4:21:38And it's only for today.
4:21:40But talk about it.
4:21:43Much time is our problem.
4:21:45What the rest of us are.
4:21:51Change last year.
4:21:53This year, it cannot be changed in terms of some other problems.

Nixon, Kissinger & Huebner on Vietnam War and Soviet Union

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Also recorded on April 12, 1972

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