Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 330-036
Date: Wednesday, April 12, 1972 at 2:47 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; Butterfield, Alexander P.; Huebner, Lee W.
Recording device: Old Executive Office Building
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/330-036

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[4:02:17] Are you ready to take off now for New York?
[4:02:20] All right.
[4:02:24] Come over now.
[4:02:26] Bye.
[4:02:26] We'll give him a call.
[4:02:33] It'll probably be 3.15 or 3.30.
[4:02:36] He's talking to the police.
[4:02:39] Bye.
[4:02:39] Have a nice day.
[4:02:41] Bye.
[4:02:46] Oh, fine, fine.
[4:02:55] You can pick those things up and open them.
[4:04:41] Ja.
[4:04:41] Ja.
[4:04:42] Ja.
[4:04:42] Ja.
[4:04:42] Ja.
[4:04:43] Ja.
[4:04:43] Ja.
[4:04:43] Ja.
[4:04:44] Ja.
[4:04:44] Ja.
[4:05:09] Oh, fine, fine.
[4:05:21] You can pick those things up and open them.
[4:05:25] Thank you.
[4:07:07] Now he's blubbered.
[4:07:07] He says, one, what can I show you?
[4:07:12] This way, before he gets back to Moscow.
[4:07:16] This way.
[4:07:16] This is communication.
[4:07:17] Second, what can I show you?
[4:07:19] It's the most urgent touch right now.
[4:07:30] He said they have a terrible problem.
[4:07:35] For one time religion is good.
[4:07:38] He said, he doesn't give me the bullshit about peace, how tough, when he doesn't play, he's put upon, and he's serious.
[4:07:47] He said, let's not assess blame, let's not, let's not do anything, let's just ask ourselves what can be done.
[4:07:53] He says, we can't turn, we can't turn them off,
[4:08:01] From one day to the next evening, he will activate the other veterinary specimens, which is very interesting.
[4:08:11] It will take three months to take effect.
[4:08:12] He said, we'll catch them, they are only 24.
[4:08:19] Even though you can't do this, that's what he said.
[4:08:23] He said, that he's not sure.
[4:08:24] Or he thinks he's not sure.
[4:08:25] He said, however, they have markups, and right now, all technicians are known.
[4:08:28] There's, uh,
[4:08:30] that he hurts the stomach of a northern Tibetan from somewhere.
[4:08:36] Therefore, can I make some proposition, any proposition, that they can transmit to the north?
[4:08:45] I said, I don't know.
[4:08:46] President has said, we hate boys.
[4:08:49] We can't do that.
[4:08:51] He said, can we at least tell them that you're willing to negotiate it?
[4:08:59] He said to me for the first time, I forget his name.
[4:09:05] You are not serious.
[4:09:07] I said, I don't know.
[4:09:09] Frankly, I could have given him some cash.
[4:09:12] I said, I've got to talk to the president.
[4:09:13] He said, I said, are you sure you can see me tomorrow?
[4:09:20] I said, I'll talk to the president.
[4:09:27] I said, may I tell them to go get me something tomorrow?
[4:09:29] I said, I don't have this small of a difference of consent.
[4:09:34] What you will decide, I'll hand it over to you before you make these decisions.
[4:09:44] I didn't want to talk about it.
[4:09:45] But, I can tell, we haven't closed the dry system yet.
[4:09:47] I can tell when these guys don't see it.
[4:09:49] Then he said something.
[4:09:51] I must tell you the whole thing.
[4:09:57] He said,
[4:09:58] He believes that if I could go to the treasurer, if I could know their secrets, they would break everything.
[4:10:06] And could I go for some days prior to the tragedy, they would guarantee total secrecy.
[4:10:13] They would let me fly in on military rules.
[4:10:16] You know, I'd cover for you if you had no problem.
[4:10:21] And why don't we tell them?
[4:10:22] I believe... That doesn't give them anything to tell.
[4:10:23] Yeah.
[4:10:24] Why don't they tell him?
[4:10:25] Why don't they tell him anything?
[4:10:26] Yeah.
[4:10:27] But you see, I believe, Mr. President, if it turns out, rather than our giving anything to Hanoi now, why don't we say to give our full trust to Hanoi now?
[4:10:36] We can do two things, Mr. President.
[4:10:41] And the other thing I was thinking, I would recommend to Bill Taylor.
[4:10:46] We were going to have to catch the 24-4, but now I'm going to find him myself.
[4:10:51] I put off the meeting with the Chinese, but he was really serious.
[4:10:54] He said, how about the Chinese?
[4:10:57] What if the Chinese turn against us?
[4:10:59] I said, I don't know if you want to leave and pull over Vietnam.
[4:11:09] We don't need the Chinese.
[4:11:11] I can easily give him a general formula tomorrow that doesn't give him anything.
[4:11:17] Plus, if I said I'll go there secretly before the 24th, provided there's a meeting on the 24th.
[4:11:24] How about this?
[4:11:30] How about telling the children?
[4:11:38] Well, let me see.
[4:11:38] I'm trying to think of games now for a minute.
[4:11:41] You know, I'm all for atmosphere, and I'm not much for substance.
[4:11:44] That is, giving them atmosphere is not...
[4:11:51] I think so.
[4:11:52] But I think they're going to Russia.
[4:11:54] If they can guarantee secrecy to Russia, I think you should go to Russia.
[4:11:59] But you see, I believe, Mr. President, also there's some advantage in your sort of finding out what's right and what's wrong.
[4:12:08] You see, I could also set up this thing for you that in such a way that the way we have to chose that can set up.
[4:12:18] You'll guarantee secrecy if you don't know what it is.
[4:12:37] See, this will put more heat on the Russians.
[4:12:39] We have to make two conditions.
[4:12:41] One is, I can go home and they deliver this.
[4:12:44] That is just delivering them.
[4:12:46] They'll be there in 24 hours.
[4:12:47] They've been delivered 12 times.
[4:12:50] No, they've never been delivered.
[4:12:52] All right, okay.
[4:12:55] This time, as I've told them, they may deliver it.
[4:12:58] Well, I understand.
[4:12:58] They will talk to me each time.
[4:13:01] And we haven't got to spend more time with them.
[4:13:03] If they see me, this will be it.
[4:13:06] President seized me after what we are doing to Hanoi.
[4:13:09] I said to him, for example, look, we are trying to take increasingly strong military methods before the 24th.
[4:13:17] I just want you to know that.
[4:13:19] So those few people don't feel we are fooling them.
[4:13:22] He said, are you going to attack our ships?
[4:13:25] I said, I can't tell you anything, but until the 24th, we will try to exercise as much restraint as the situation permits.
[4:13:33] But, if these guys see us,
[4:13:36] As long as it's operating on the way.
[4:13:38] Either way.
[4:13:38] If they keep it secret, they have more of an incentive to keep it secret than we.
[4:13:49] Yeah.
[4:13:49] The Russians.
[4:13:50] Yes.
[4:13:50] Because...
[4:13:50] But I'm getting down.
[4:13:51] I still get back to the fundamental thing.
[4:13:54] I don't know what's... What effect does it have on Hanoi?
[4:13:58] On the way to an end of disaster.
[4:14:00] Is that true?
[4:14:03] On the Russians?
[4:14:04] And I go to Russia before I see them.
[4:14:11] And again, it puts us in trouble if it ever does come out.
[4:14:19] But it won't come out.
[4:14:20] We don't care.
[4:14:21] But I think, Mr. President, I have a lot of experience with these guys now.
[4:14:33] And I can assure, I can tell you, they are cracking.
[4:14:36] He said Mrs. McCormick was moved to tears by Mrs. McCormick, and has written a personal letter to Mrs. President.
[4:14:50] I told him, look at this position.
[4:14:52] I think the Russians want to talk to you.
[4:14:56] The opposition of President depends on this government, sir.
[4:15:02] He said he is.
[4:15:31] Or he be caught.
[4:15:34] Well, I said to him, he said, he asked me what I thought of how this was handled, and I said that I know the technique, but you see to it that you always take out all the loose chains and slide them out, and you lose all your good will that way.
[4:15:55] He said, I said, but how can I do that?
[4:15:56] I said, there's nothing better.
[4:15:59] You never fix up your strength, but let me prove it for all of you.
[4:16:06] Remember that, let me see how you're doing.
[4:16:12] I said, we do think that, we said, how is this going to work?
[4:16:16] I said, I don't know.
[4:16:17] Do you think you're going to keep us sitting out there?
[4:16:24] President,
[4:16:25] What do you think?
[4:16:27] I believe it's really a secret trip on me.
[4:16:30] I had cruel anti-advantages.
[4:16:32] They're so panting after us that any slight chance they might feel they're attacking us over what they're going to do would disappear.
[4:16:38] A secret trip could be taken.
[4:16:41] Let's figure out what you could give them.
[4:16:47] Nothing.
[4:16:51] That's before what you would say to them.
[4:16:54] Mr. President, it would be a mistake to give them anything to deserve.
[4:17:05] I agree that we've got their needs taken care of.
[4:17:13] Correct.
[4:17:15] I think going to Russia is giving them something.
[4:17:22] We won't ask you to surrender, or we won't.
[4:17:43] I'll just give the general government the truth, which commits us to nothing.
[4:17:48] But also that it has to be done now.
[4:17:50] But we must now bring the truth towards us.
[4:17:56] And I tell you, Mr. President, every instinct I have, I have never said to you that we have a chance in any particular time.
[4:18:05] But we've never had enough begging answers for specific reasons.
[4:18:16] I mean...
[4:18:41] But what I think I would like to do now is to tell him that you're considering this trip idea, because when you're hit with a T-52, then we have the pressure to protest.
[4:18:51] Tell him that way.
[4:18:52] I won't tell him that you have to do the route, but I'll tell him you are accurate.
[4:18:57] Tell him he can tell his government.
[4:18:58] There's a friend, Tom, who's going to Camp David tonight.
[4:19:00] He says that he will want to do things, that he will listen to the chances.
[4:19:08] We should take a trip.
[4:19:10] We'd like to see what, but he wants to see their message first.
[4:19:14] How's that?
[4:19:15] They didn't say that.
[4:19:16] Then tell him he...
[4:19:17] I think we ought to still make the Canadian thing.
[4:19:22] I've got a domestic problem here, too, you know.
[4:19:26] Can you make mine?
[4:19:28] I'll make it.
[4:19:28] It's time.
[4:19:28] It was decent, mind you.
[4:19:30] I'll make it.
[4:19:33] I'll make it.
[4:19:33] It has to be set for the Chinese, too.
[4:19:36] If you pull this one off...
[4:19:40] I will guarantee you one thing, Mr. President.
[4:19:44] Not guaranteed.
[4:19:50] I think there is a two chance out of three that we can stop the war for the rest of this year.
[4:20:08] That's the minimum I think we can get.
[4:20:11] Whether we can stop it altogether, I don't know.
[4:20:16] But that I think we can get.
[4:20:19] Yeah.
[4:20:20] They just made very good changes, aren't they?
[4:20:24] Henry has approved some more changes.
[4:20:26] Yeah, you go for it.
[4:20:27] This is all right as far as you're concerned, huh?
[4:20:31] Yes.
[4:20:31] That's one sentence that was questioned, and everything should stay in.
[4:20:42] I'm hearing this sound here.
[4:21:11] Disrespect and special responsibility falls upon great powers.
[4:21:13] You cannot avoid responsibility.
[4:21:14] Hey, James, that paragraph, that's the big paragraph.
[4:21:21] What I'd like to do is just go try and turn that into the same tone as the rest of it.
[4:21:26] Oh, I don't know.
[4:21:27] The tone's got to be tougher.
[4:21:28] It's got to be, I don't want it to double either.
[4:21:31] It usually comes out of the staff.
[4:21:33] It's got to be this tone.
[4:21:34] Right?
[4:21:34] You want to soften it down?
[4:21:34] No, I'm not softening it.
[4:21:35] I'm just going to...
[4:21:36] The tone of the sentence is a much longer...
[4:21:38] And it's only for today.
[4:21:40] But talk about it.
[4:21:43] Much time is our problem.
[4:21:45] What the rest of us are.
[4:21:51] Change last year.
[4:21:53] This year, it cannot be changed in terms of some other problems.