Nixon, Ziegler & Kissinger on Vietnam War and US-Soviet Relations

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Thank you.

You haven't raised this with him yet, so he doesn't know.

No, I haven't raised it with him.

I've been tempted this morning in a general way.

It's been depressing until it's not even important.

I've got no compromise at all.

This morning, I believed in him, of course.

The, um, the other... Are you reporting to Clark yet?

Show me your followers on the hashtag.

Okay.

I see.

Okay, fine, fine.

I don't know where they're going.

He gets a word, he doesn't know I'm back.

The fact of the matter is, as I understand it, they did mention some of the industry very broadly to you.

could have an effect on the situation in Indochina and other international developments.

Now, the question is, should we say or should we not say that?

I believe we probably should not comment on that.

I would simply say that the plan continues.

That one, I have just no comment.

I would agree with that one.

Is there no comment on that?

And of course,

I was hoping that this morning would suddenly make the point that the lighting was going to put the trims on.

I'd love to surprise you.

If you didn't order, I'd cut it off.

And the advance team.

I just thought we got a couple of .

The question said the only one that's not answered this morning by the airport .

Yes, sir.

We'll reply to that.

We'll report to the official channels about it.

And Dr. Keith's statement, if that's hitting one off of the public line, well, if they worry it, it was a revert.

So we don't want to go public.

Don't say a word.

We'll give our reply.

Right.

We'll reply to what we made in the official channels.

Well, we're on the fact that the matter is tasked, and what we're on, and everyone is saying that we did so much shit.

We did so much shit.

And if so, what effect is it going to have?

Yeah, I can see what you're saying about that.

Gentlemen, we'll reply to Moscow in any situation.

That's what I'm looking for.

The American public opinion is concerned.

They don't have money.

The United States refused any comment on the report, sir.

I think that's the answer.

There's no other way you can handle it without being apologetic or defensive.

You either have to apologize or you have to say, we have a right to do this.

You can say, no, I let you put yourself into the hang of it.

Just say we pride through official channels and I have nothing further to say.

Just any manic has helped me.

Okay, we will.

Good luck.

You did a good job.

The program's beautiful.

Excellent presentation.

Each of the other people.

But I think, Mr. President, I talked to Stuart House.

Let me ask you.

You didn't have to come over, but I thought you ought to get... See, Rob's got a particularly great... Oh, no, I'm not doing that.

I'm going to ask you one question.

How does the rat balance your competition?

He's slaughtering all over the place.

He wasn't, what did he say about the ships?

What do you think really happened?

Ships were or were not there?

How serious were they?

Well, they ended up in the water zone.

That's right, Mr. President.

They could play it.

They wanted to show it now.

He was .

He did all the .

It's precisely because I'm a principal that I can't take my instruction.

What about this ?

Look.

Now, if they want to have a reason to break off the summit, Mr. President, they can use any goddamn option.

They use it now.

Then we do have to go hard.

We realize then we have no choice.

Mr. President, there are so many to break off the summit that they were looking for a reason.

They are in the worst possible position to have a confrontation.

They had one conversation with Elkhart.

They took the security contract.

They lose the credits.

They...

It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.

Because everybody thinks of you basically as a piece of metal now.

And that you are a good-upon man who was forced to do this.

They just can't make it stick against you.

They stick against you for digital jobs.

And let's wait till the end of next week when we service this Moscow trip.

Yes, sir.

That's going to be a big one.

What are they going to say?

If next week we say you send me to Moscow, Moscow receives me three days after we bound high-fives.

Who is saying you risked the summit?

I mean, let's forget about what contribution it made to the... How do you love Alsop?

Well, Alsop was a little puzzled.

He said, why did you do it?

It's going so well in the south.

I said, because we want to compress the time here.

Because we don't want the president to have to go to Moscow.

Nick's like, battle is going on in South Vietnam.

We have to worry every day about .

He said, .

I said, as a friend, you cannot push me more, but I'm trying to protect you.

I said, don't drive next week if you don't quite understand .

He said, what's the president?

And I was very flustered.

And I said, the president is never going to walk with Dr. Cooper.

Yeah, we decided this long ago.

You know, we've been trying to get the company out of the hole for two years.

Oh, really?

They're struggling, aren't they?

We planned it.

But actually, did we give a go on this?

We gave it to them.

On the final go, Saturday.

No, I mean, we had a plan.

They haven't taken weeks to get this ready.

Oh, yeah.

But we'd like to take the position publicly, Mr. President, if it didn't sound like it.

Oh, I understand.

Why not?

Let him take it or tell him.

I just don't let him say I'm not going to go over there.

I don't think I can explain every time how awful it is.

I don't know.

I don't know what to do.

You could not do the same thing, the same thing would mean that I could not tell you.

But this way, now when I said to the Freeman, I'm going to do the one thing I'm afraid of, he started hacking and cackling away with me about the... about the...

But why are you part of the University of New England?

That was all very interesting.

We tried to discover the truth here.

I think the fact of the matter is the President is going to make the final decisions.

That's great.

Now, do you need to ask him?

I'm going to talk to him.

Then we still have wasted three days.

And the President will have to act on the same information.

And then at the same time, I said, you know, the tragedy in Italy, the European security, the best relations we've ever had with those poor kids, the war going down, the tragedy.

He said, why can't the president go?

Because I said, of your irresponsibility, he said.

Of your irresponsibility.

And of course, the one other thing they might want is to go, you know, just looking at everything.

They might want to do better than me.

And just throw out this aura of having done everything, but it'd be a cheap shot.

We're ready to take that on.

We're ready to.

Let me tell you what we'll be as concerned about.

If we're not accountable, we'll show them.

If they say no, then we'll just put the blockade on.

Now will be election.

I don't care.

We're going to crush Vietnam now.

We have to do it.

If they will not be reasonable at all, we have no choice.

I cannot believe for them to have me in Moscow, and how they drive it up under these circumstances.

It's a tremendous confession of police concern.

Yeah.

Yeah, police concern.

After all, when people say, you are risking the summit with having fun, annoying my son,

But that's six weeks from now.

Or four and a half weeks from now.

Five weeks from now.

Some of it is five weeks.

Some of it is five weeks from now.

The other four days after we left, they see the man who they know must have been in front of the principal executors and do the same thing.

Laird, and moreover, Laird, just like Mark, was the one who raised him.

I think it would be owing to him and more if you did well and you would wait until the second time to have him and more come over.

You and I talked a little bit prior to the war.

I told you to study the doctor's testimony first and make sure that you didn't make a disagreement in the testimony.

I could do it any time.

I could do it at five or I could do it at four.

Just at the time.

What time would be best for you?

After 4.

How about the other hour?

4.30.

4.30?

5 would be good.

We'll do it 5.

You call them 5.

I'm all set.

I've got an hour right now.

They won't be able to play.

It's just a little bit more later to hear the director's comments.

Fair enough.

Well, they're in jeopardy.

Well, I know they are.

But I don't want them to, frankly, overplay what they're doing.

I think we're on the right line right now.

Maybe we want them to be a little tougher, let's tell them.

There's nothing wrong with it.

You see, they will agree to the Rogers thing.

We think it should be hard-covered in Rogers, but let it go.

I think they should stick to the position they have to be in.

Well, I think I should see the panel meeting.

And I think I understand more of it.

I'll have to say you talked to Roger on the telephone.

Yes.

Before his testimony.

Yeah, I talked yesterday and this morning.

Presence and communication with Roger's husband.

And I saw him also Saturday night.

He talked to the secretary Saturday night.

He's talking to Mr. Sunday.

He talked to the secretary Saturday night, Sunday, and this morning before I spoke to him.

Okay.

Nixon, Ziegler & Kissinger on Vietnam War and US-Soviet Relations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 17, 1972

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