Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 331-002
Date: Monday, April 17, 1972 at 2:10 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.; Kissinger, Henry A.; Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")
Recording device: Old Executive Office Building
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/331-002

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Thank you.
[0:31] You haven't raised this with him yet, so he doesn't know.
[0:56] No, I haven't raised it with him.
[0:57] I've been tempted this morning in a general way.
[0:58] It's been depressing until it's not even important.
[0:59] I've got no compromise at all.
[1:00] This morning, I believed in him, of course.
[1:01] The, um, the other... Are you reporting to Clark yet?
[1:26] Show me your followers on the hashtag.
[1:26] Okay.
[1:27] I see.
[1:27] Okay, fine, fine.
[1:27] I don't know where they're going.
[1:28] He gets a word, he doesn't know I'm back.
[1:51] The fact of the matter is, as I understand it, they did mention some of the industry very broadly to you.
[2:17] could have an effect on the situation in Indochina and other international developments.
[2:40] Now, the question is, should we say or should we not say that?
[2:41] I believe we probably should not comment on that.
[2:42] I would simply say that the plan continues.
[2:43] That one, I have just no comment.
[2:44] I would agree with that one.
[2:44] Is there no comment on that?
[2:45] And of course,
[2:46] I was hoping that this morning would suddenly make the point that the lighting was going to put the trims on.
[3:09] I'd love to surprise you.
[3:10] If you didn't order, I'd cut it off.
[3:10] And the advance team.
[3:14] I just thought we got a couple of .
[3:30] The question said the only one that's not answered this morning by the airport .
[3:42] Yes, sir.
[3:42] We'll reply to that.
[3:59] We'll report to the official channels about it.
[4:02] And Dr. Keith's statement, if that's hitting one off of the public line, well, if they worry it, it was a revert.
[4:05] So we don't want to go public.
[4:05] Don't say a word.
[4:06] We'll give our reply.
[4:06] Right.
[4:06] We'll reply to what we made in the official channels.
[4:07] Well, we're on the fact that the matter is tasked, and what we're on, and everyone is saying that we did so much shit.
[4:10] We did so much shit.
[4:11] And if so, what effect is it going to have?
[4:33] Yeah, I can see what you're saying about that.
[4:33] Gentlemen, we'll reply to Moscow in any situation.
[4:34] That's what I'm looking for.
[4:35] The American public opinion is concerned.
[4:36] They don't have money.
[4:36] The United States refused any comment on the report, sir.
[4:38] I think that's the answer.
[4:48] There's no other way you can handle it without being apologetic or defensive.
[4:57] You either have to apologize or you have to say, we have a right to do this.
[5:02] You can say, no, I let you put yourself into the hang of it.
[5:03] Just say we pride through official channels and I have nothing further to say.
[5:05] Just any manic has helped me.
[5:07] Okay, we will.
[5:33] Good luck.
[5:33] Good luck.
[5:37] You did a good job.
[5:56] The program's beautiful.
[5:58] Excellent presentation.
[5:58] Each of the other people.
[5:59] But I think, Mr. President, I talked to Stuart House.
[6:00] Let me ask you.
[6:01] You didn't have to come over, but I thought you ought to get... See, Rob's got a particularly great... Oh, no, I'm not doing that.
[6:04] I'm going to ask you one question.
[6:04] How does the rat balance your competition?
[6:05] He's slaughtering all over the place.
[6:06] He wasn't, what did he say about the ships?
[6:29] What do you think really happened?
[6:33] Ships were or were not there?
[6:34] How serious were they?
[6:34] Well, they ended up in the water zone.
[6:36] That's right, Mr. President.
[7:02] They could play it.
[7:03] They wanted to show it now.
[7:03] He was .
[7:03] He did all the .
[7:04] It's precisely because I'm a principal that I can't take my instruction.
[7:05] What about this ?
[7:06] Look.
[7:06] Now, if they want to have a reason to break off the summit, Mr. President, they can use any goddamn option.
[7:27] They use it now.
[7:27] Then we do have to go hard.
[7:28] We realize then we have no choice.
[7:28] Mr. President, there are so many to break off the summit that they were looking for a reason.
[7:30] They are in the worst possible position to have a confrontation.
[7:31] They had one conversation with Elkhart.
[7:32] They took the security contract.
[7:33] They lose the credits.
[7:33] They...
[7:34] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[7:47] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[7:48] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[7:50] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[7:51] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[7:52] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[7:53] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[7:55] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[7:56] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[7:57] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[7:58] It would make you lose the possibility of a peace settlement.
[8:01] Because everybody thinks of you basically as a piece of metal now.
[8:22] And that you are a good-upon man who was forced to do this.
[8:23] They just can't make it stick against you.
[8:24] They stick against you for digital jobs.
[8:25] And let's wait till the end of next week when we service this Moscow trip.
[8:27] Yes, sir.
[8:27] That's going to be a big one.
[8:27] What are they going to say?
[8:28] If next week we say you send me to Moscow, Moscow receives me three days after we bound high-fives.
[8:32] Who is saying you risked the summit?
[8:49] I mean, let's forget about what contribution it made to the... How do you love Alsop?
[8:51] Well, Alsop was a little puzzled.
[8:52] He said, why did you do it?
[8:53] It's going so well in the south.
[8:54] I said, because we want to compress the time here.
[8:55] Because we don't want the president to have to go to Moscow.
[8:57] Nick's like, battle is going on in South Vietnam.
[9:16] We have to worry every day about .
[9:17] He said, .
[9:17] I said, as a friend, you cannot push me more, but I'm trying to protect you.
[9:19] I said, don't drive next week if you don't quite understand .
[9:30] He said, what's the president?
[9:51] And I was very flustered.
[9:51] And I said, the president is never going to walk with Dr. Cooper.
[9:53] Yeah, we decided this long ago.
[9:53] You know, we've been trying to get the company out of the hole for two years.
[9:55] Oh, really?
[9:55] They're struggling, aren't they?
[9:56] We planned it.
[9:56] But actually, did we give a go on this?
[9:57] We gave it to them.
[9:57] On the final go, Saturday.
[9:58] No, I mean, we had a plan.
[9:59] They haven't taken weeks to get this ready.
[10:19] Oh, yeah.
[10:19] But we'd like to take the position publicly, Mr. President, if it didn't sound like it.
[10:21] Oh, I understand.
[10:21] Why not?
[10:21] Why not?
[10:22] Let him take it or tell him.
[10:22] I just don't let him say I'm not going to go over there.
[10:23] I don't think I can explain every time how awful it is.
[10:24] I don't know.
[10:25] I don't know what to do.
[10:27] You could not do the same thing, the same thing would mean that I could not tell you.
[10:44] But this way, now when I said to the Freeman, I'm going to do the one thing I'm afraid of, he started hacking and cackling away with me about the... about the...
[10:55] But why are you part of the University of New England?
[11:13] That was all very interesting.
[11:14] We tried to discover the truth here.
[11:14] I think the fact of the matter is the President is going to make the final decisions.
[11:16] That's great.
[11:16] Now, do you need to ask him?
[11:17] I'm going to talk to him.
[11:17] Then we still have wasted three days.
[11:18] And the President will have to act on the same information.
[11:24] And then at the same time, I said, you know, the tragedy in Italy, the European security, the best relations we've ever had with those poor kids, the war going down, the tragedy.
[11:52] He said, why can't the president go?
[12:16] Because I said, of your irresponsibility, he said.
[12:17] Of your irresponsibility.
[12:17] And of course, the one other thing they might want is to go, you know, just looking at everything.
[12:19] They might want to do better than me.
[12:20] And just throw out this aura of having done everything, but it'd be a cheap shot.
[12:22] We're ready to take that on.
[12:45] We're ready to.
[12:46] Let me tell you what we'll be as concerned about.
[12:47] If we're not accountable, we'll show them.
[12:48] If they say no, then we'll just put the blockade on.
[12:49] Now will be election.
[12:50] I don't care.
[12:50] We're going to crush Vietnam now.
[12:51] We have to do it.
[12:51] If they will not be reasonable at all, we have no choice.
[12:53] I cannot believe for them to have me in Moscow, and how they drive it up under these circumstances.
[13:17] It's a tremendous confession of police concern.
[13:19] Yeah.
[13:19] Yeah, police concern.
[13:20] After all, when people say, you are risking the summit with having fun, annoying my son,
[13:22] But that's six weeks from now.
[13:31] Or four and a half weeks from now.
[13:36] Five weeks from now.
[13:37] Some of it is five weeks.
[13:38] Some of it is five weeks from now.
[13:46] The other four days after we left, they see the man who they know must have been in front of the principal executors and do the same thing.
[13:49] Laird, and moreover, Laird, just like Mark, was the one who raised him.
[13:52] I think it would be owing to him and more if you did well and you would wait until the second time to have him and more come over.
[14:16] You and I talked a little bit prior to the war.
[14:17] I told you to study the doctor's testimony first and make sure that you didn't make a disagreement in the testimony.
[14:20] I could do it any time.
[14:20] I could do it at five or I could do it at four.
[14:21] Just at the time.
[14:22] What time would be best for you?
[14:40] After 4.
[14:41] How about the other hour?
[14:42] 4.30.
[14:42] 4.30?
[14:42] 5 would be good.
[14:42] We'll do it 5.
[14:43] You call them 5.
[14:43] I'm all set.
[14:43] I've got an hour right now.
[14:44] They won't be able to play.
[14:44] It's just a little bit more later to hear the director's comments.
[14:46] Fair enough.
[14:46] Well, they're in jeopardy.
[14:47] Well, I know they are.
[14:47] But I don't want them to, frankly, overplay what they're doing.
[14:48] I think we're on the right line right now.
[14:51] Maybe we want them to be a little tougher, let's tell them.
[15:11] There's nothing wrong with it.
[15:12] You see, they will agree to the Rogers thing.
[15:13] We think it should be hard-covered in Rogers, but let it go.
[15:14] I think they should stick to the position they have to be in.
[15:15] Well, I think I should see the panel meeting.
[15:16] And I think I understand more of it.
[15:18] I'll have to say you talked to Roger on the telephone.
[15:39] Yes.
[15:39] Before his testimony.
[15:42] Yeah, I talked yesterday and this morning.
[15:43] Presence and communication with Roger's husband.
[15:45] And I saw him also Saturday night.
[15:47] He talked to the secretary Saturday night.
[15:48] He's talking to Mr. Sunday.
[15:54] He talked to the secretary Saturday night, Sunday, and this morning before I spoke to him.
[15:58] Okay.