Conversation 331-016

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It was a little too cold for the upper deck.

That's right.

and not, you know, working everything through in a deep horizon, and so.

He, well, and so he gets them, he grinds them, he grinds them, he gets all the options out and everything that should come up and what the president ought to consider, what I have to decide, and so forth, and then I go and pull that thing over.

The point is, he will have thought it through.

It's so unlike our average cabinet, and even sometimes stackers, who, unless you equip them,

will not bring it in that way.

And they don't like to present options.

Well, they don't like to bring options.

They don't want you to do this, this, or this.

They think, well, they're not deciding.

We're still deciding.

They're thinking it through.

It helps me to think it through.

Rather than just sitting there and guessing about it.

You have an impossible situation, for example, usually about taking a bench.

It's just almost impossible to get an error that says it's not true.

Well, Chris Bob never really thinks anything through himself.

I mean, he just kind of does it, and then whatever he lost, sort of, might come down.

Yeah.

I had a chance yesterday.

I don't think it was even a handout.

I don't think it was a break.

I don't think it was a throw.

I don't think it was a post.

They're all dead.

That's about the group we haven't seen very closely.

But I haven't seen it very closely for a long time.

Yes, ma'am.

I agree that that doesn't...

The others don't need it.

I mean, the others understand.

They don't have to do their work.

They don't have to do...

Oh, no, no, no.

They understand, too.

McGregor, for instance, you know, the dog.

There'll be times when he's got to hit you on something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But he understands, totally.

He does.

And he loves to take the ball around.

That's right.

I think Chuck needs a little bit of a push on that.

Not a push.

Yeah.

But he's a pat on the back.

He likes to fight him.

Rodney called yesterday to say that no problem.

He said that the British made a very strong statement in support of your bond.

And he was very quick.

Bill called the foreign minister and thanked him.

And here we have the good.

And he also called Mitchell Sharpe.

And the Canadians were very pleased with everything he did and everything he said.

I thought it was superb and all that.

And then he hit Sharpe on the bottom and said, what are you going to do on that?

And Sharpe says that they're not saying anything.

What they're saying is that they have to say that they were fortunate and focused in his belief, and that's where they thought that the present U.S. actions must be considered in the light of the fact that North Vietnam is invading South Vietnam.

So that's what he built, despite the belief he thought that was

more than he thought he could get out of it.

What he wanted, he was going to say nothing.

But he thinks this is better than that.

Because it builds up the invasion point.

I don't think it matters how long he's out of business.

But anyway, the point is, Bill is working on that, and he's briefing Congress this morning.

Yeah, we've got him working.

And Larry's working.

Yep.

So they're all...

How'd you get along with your father?

Yeah, that's right.

He's very nice.

He's not like, I can't spend two and a half hours with him.

He wanted to go on.

He, his mind is made up.

He looked very strong, timing over us somewhat.

There's a degree of urgency on his part.

He makes a point.

It's a complex, I'm not sure I still got all of it.

He said, he was saying about over the weekend, I logged in to a lot of arguments since we went a long time.

And this is the point of how we'll just start to understand how you can do this if you pull the plug on a guy who's following high quality.

Yeah, that puts you in one spot.

All that kind of stuff.

Also, that you've always said that the domestic economy depended on confidence.

the international economy depended on trust and decisiveness.

And if you pull up, it doesn't psychologically reopen all those indecisive areas again.

And I said, but the thing that I also made a point of, more important to me, looking at this than trading, which I thought probably could be handled by some other people, was the

the president's real aim for a man that he considered an equal in his cabinet, and available for consultation, who he can turn to, and an urgent need doesn't happen, so the first thing he says to you, and we build it up, and I think you're creating a real problem in that area.

I totally dismiss the public.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the public.

Yeah, that's right.

And that's going to only depend on what you say when you go.

Well, all of this leading on to a lot of inner revulsions.

He spoke out several times.

One is his determination to leave for a very complex combination of reasons, some of which I don't think he understands or even has any awareness of himself.

that have to do with really funding the land.

He can't work the way we work.

And he doesn't think we can change the way we're working out of the land.

He does not accept any kind of interference or communication within his department by anybody from anywhere else.

But he recognizes that that's an increased impossibility because there's no way that all that has to be dealt with can be dealt with by him.

He said, I've hit you on this on the basis of the way I snap this stuff wrong and all that kind of thing.

It's too big.

He said, that isn't really the problem.

The real problem, or at least a major part of it, is me and the way I work.

And I've brought that through.

Now, I'm here.

I will not let decisions be made that might affect my position by people whose judgment I figure might concern the inferior mind.

I will not.

And I said, well, why didn't you?

And we turned, we explored a lot.

And he says, why didn't you give it to an undersecretary that's your man?

Instead of just taking the guy that's there.

And the guy that you trust politically.

And then let him run the goddamn department.

Right.

And make those little buildings.

He'll never do it.

He said, he said that.

He tells other people to do it, but he won't do it.

He says, I can't, I can't, I don't do it.

And I'm too old to change.

He said, you could argue that I look to the country and the president to change.

He said, I can't do it.

Also, and this gets more and more of an attack, that I'm frustrated with this kind of thing.

And I know that I didn't really want to be secretary of the treasury, and I'm here to be secretary of the treasury.

And I don't complain about the way I've been treated with you and the president.

He keeps coming back to that gap.

But he said, it may not bother you to keep thinking about it.

I have a very high professional regard and admiration for the president, and a very strong personal attachment to him.

And I'm afraid that every day I stay here, that's going to be eroded.

And I'm afraid I want to leave now, but I'm going to leave on a basis that we've worked out and that works well, rather than... You think they're going to erode because of the fighting?

Yeah.

But he probably has an idea that there are people in the White House staff that come in to meet him.

He said, I know I'm probably wrong, but I can't help but feel that I'm stuck in the woodpile of your ship.

He said, I don't think, he said, I know you're not doing that.

But he thinks capitalists are talking about it and he thinks the others.

You just imagine that.

As far as I'm concerned, there's nobody that has ever come out of the office running down the hallway.

Nobody.

I told him.

He said, well, I know I've brought you all.

He said, you think about it.

If Lyndon Johnson had asked you to come in here and he rolled, wouldn't you think that there'd be a lot of guys around trying to get you?

Now, do you think basically it gets down to that?

You don't think that anything has been a deeper personal involvement with Wyatt?

Yes, I do.

I think there's that in it, too.

She wants to go home.

Locked by one thing that I picked up and I meant to go back to and never did, which was, well, let me get to some other points, because they're important.

That's the beginning of it.

If it hasn't been quieted, I wonder why I haven't talked to him about it.

as soon as you want to.

He'd like to talk to you as soon as you're happy.

But here's the interesting thing.

We were talking about... We're going out there next... Well, he said that the president wants to...

I realize this creates an awkward problem for the president.

I don't know if he wants to drop that, but that would be fine.

He said...

If the invitation's already out, I'm ready to drop it.

It would be no problem.

And he said, yeah, the thing I think would be best is to announce it shortly before that and then have the party which will show the basis on which the departure goes.

And I said, you had, we had talked about the problem of doing it before Russia.

And he said, well, you won't be back with Jim, Jim Hirsch.

And I said, well, that's it.

And he said, I think going into it before Russia and telling Russia we're going to override it would be better.

But as we were going along, he said, this is the best time for me to go.

The president is in good shape.

He's in superb shape.

And his opposition is in very bad shape.

And that's when I should get out.

It won't hurt him now.

It will be done on a positive basis.

I will help him any way I can.

And I want to.

Then, as he waltzed along, he said,

You know, the time may come when we get past these Democratic primaries, but I should come out as the head of the Democrats for Nixon, or something like that.

And so I kind of let it go by, and then came back to do it later.

I didn't want to look like I was standing on a bed.

I picked it up after a while and couldn't get out.

Then, if I go back to Texas,

The Texas like money and they like land.

Good thing.

Well, you know, he's going to make a hell of a lot now.

And he knows, too.

There's always the risk that if he stays in, he'll lose.

And if he goes out tomorrow and he lets face it,

the same thing that Hardin had to think about.

And if you go, but if you leave now, if you leave at the top of the eighth, you can write it on a ticket.

He said, wherever I am, I won't be more than three hours away.

He said, I hardly ever have a meeting with the president now if it isn't set three hours ahead of time.

And I said, what do you mean by that?

He said, what I mean by that is I will be distance available to the president in the kinds of danger he's talking about.

He said, look, you made the case.

I can make very strong cases.

I can be infinitely more valuable to the president, not as part of his bureaucracy, but as a private citizen.

I would invite you up with a sense of what's going on in the country, with the option to move around at my own pace, and then to come back whenever the president wants to be on call, any time.

Sit down and talk with me.

He wants to sit down and talk.

Go through a problem with me.

He wants to go through a problem with me.

Carry out a mission for him.

He wants me to carry out a mission.

Whatever it may be, I can do that, I think, more effectively.

Also, I can hit the Democrats a hell of a lot harder as the former secretary of the treasury of the Nixon cabinet than I can as the secretary of the...

There's no question in any event of it being well in money league to say that you're going to support Nixon as the president.

That's the point I'm making.

In my view, that's what I wanted to get locked up, but I didn't want to look like...

I've gotten that answered every way I can figure out.

Yeah, like he says, I might have Democrats.

You've got to wait until after the convention.

See, if he were to indicate that he had doubts at this point,

to the Democratic Convention, I don't think he would.

I think that would be confident.

He said, he said, he came back at one point, he said, you referred to my, what I said when I, he was being, let me make, settle out.

I will sit down with you, or with you in the present, whichever you prefer, and work out what I said.

And I will say whatever you, in the present, and I, you know, what you want me to say.

And I will stick with that no matter what happens next time.

If I start reading dope stories out of the White House, saying Ponzi was kicked out because he wouldn't shape up or didn't know what he was doing here, or a bloke on the FBI or whatever, then I won't say so.

Yeah.

I'm getting ready to go.

All right.

After the study, after these studies .

Nothing good at all.

We can shoot it down.

We'll handle it any way we want, but I don't think... You don't think we can?

It's probably made up.

I mean, it's made first, and it sounds like you'll be out of it.

Yeah, you're committed to the... Yeah, no.

We're not committed.

No?

Yeah, you can at least say, well, I have nothing to say on this.

Just leave it in terms of the...

There will be another that he will make his withdrawal.

He will make another announcement with regard to the truth.

And then I don't want you to talk about your withdrawal.

No, I wouldn't.

Will you not go?

What we can say is simply that... No, just say that it's very true.

Whatever is said before the 1st of May will depend on the situation at that time.

Just say that.

as far as the recovery decision made as to how it will be done.

How's that?

I think that's a virtue.

Yeah, it's true.

But the other thing, too, is that I'm sure that is not something that somebody has put out.

I mean, do you about that you don't think there's any asshole around here that has put out some sort of story?

Somebody next week is the last three vehicles.

I think it was the last week.

They say it was learned that he would go on.

The only reason I'm here is really to listen.

He says sources close to the president.

The Hague is in there.

That's the thing.

Well, that's natural.

All right, so I have to say this.

Sources close to the president said the speech would come after the sale.

That's the Hague report.

No, I'm sure it wasn't Henry.

Henry was never... No, but I don't mean to ask him about who he mixed it.

It might be somebody in his shop.

Well, anyway, it doesn't make any difference.

Really, if you would, just treat it as an old story in your usual cool way.

But we haven't decided yet.

We don't know what the next one is going to be.

I think we're pretty well in the middle of it.

I don't think you need to say anything more today.

What about Secretary Larry's statement?

We're not going to comment on that.

I mean, I would only point out that the Secretary had an extended conversation with the President before his testimony went on.

And his testimony reflected the President's view.

The same was true of the Secretary of State.

His testimony reflected the President's view.

We're not inconsistent with the President's views.

I put it that way.

We're not inconsistent with the President's views.

Just let her hang out there, okay?

Because actually, you see, you have a situation where the...

We'll meet Saturday.

Go ahead.

Oh, sorry.

Oh, screw it.

I don't think it's going to be.

Just get out there.

That's all we can take pictures of.

The reporters you talked to said, you know, it's amazing.

It's really interesting.

They made up a lot of thoughts about the bomb.

Look at his office.

Of course, it's Hillary.

That's right.

He's talking to the guy that does it.

Well, take a hard line.

We're going right.

Yes, sir.

You see, you never know.

That's probably when you hear that, you immediately think,

I wouldn't be surprised, I mean.

We do have a little bit of a problem in the fact, Bob, we have so many people who do talk in press.

I mean, you've got everybody from Sapphire to, you know, it could be Sapphire, it could be Scallop, it could be, you know, anybody.

You know, they just don't know that sometimes you just play an advantage game.

But you agree to sometimes listen and get out for that reason.

And if you're a depressed person, well, there's nothing.

a shred going on with Connie, which is more important.

He wants to do it that way.

I'm not afraid.

Don't you agree?

I completely agree with you.

I hope it's not voter.

I said, I won't take voter.

I said, this is a real problem.

Then on a successor, which I raised this as one of the problems back in the other day.

I said, even if all the rest of this, how the hell do you put it?

The Secretary can't get anybody confirmed by the Senate.

He'd have a hell of a problem with somebody running the job and trying to get control of it before the election.

And he said, well, I thought about that a little and I'll give some more time to it.

I don't have any suggestions.

And I got up and thought, well, we came back to it a little later, kind of hand in heart.

And I stopped looking at him and I said, this is the only thing I can see that you could possibly do really from the inside.

which is what you're almost active in, would be to put Jerry Shelton in there.

And Connolly paused a minute.

He says, that's an absolutely superb idea.

He says, Shelton would be outstanding.

He's exactly the right guy for the job.

There would be no question in this conversation.

None.

And he understands everything that's in here better than anybody here does.

He is the president.

He is against control.

He's a free market man.

He's good.

He has some wrong views on some other things, but he's willing to do it now.

He's used to the decisions.

And Connie Larson must remain.

He is a guy that, he went on and on about Johnson.

Well, maybe he went on and on because he figured that that got him off the hook.

Could be, but he became disappointed, so he will not fight for Johnson.

Well, then he didn't push poker.

He didn't push poker at all.

Or Walker.

Walker.

He said you have another plus there, which I think would be very good, if you would show us over.

You ought to make CAP the head of O&B.

He said that would be a good move.

CAP would, in many ways, do a better job than George has in his country.

And you should move CAP up and sign.

Yeah, we might have to move CAP to sign that.

I know, but get into that.

But in that case, we just wouldn't do it.

I don't know what to do to figure it out now.

But I was thinking about it last night.

A reading that you showed us is the answer.

Oh, yes.

There's only one you can deal with.

Well, there's nobody else, basically, who's got the scope.

There's nobody else who can stand up to Arthur Byrne.

That's the other thing.

John said that.

He said that would make Arthur mad.

That's a lot of good.

He said, oh, hell, yes.

That's exactly what you've got to do.

And he said it was, Arthur, he is the only guy you could put in there that Arthur would be able to find a spot with.

Just anybody you bring in from outside, Arthur would run circles down through the first year.

The difficulty with his idea of when is that we've got too much on the plate right now.

I don't want to do it before I have a press conference next week.

Would you agree?

You'll probably do whatever you want to do.

I would suggest that you do it

right after Moscow, I mean before Moscow, before Moscow.

That's a better way to do it.

Finally, I shall see it and send a denomination and have it done through rather than leaving any doubt.

I think if he... Why don't we put it this way?

That's the best time for us.

You see, and you work it out, I think, basically.

You can fuck with more other people than I can.

Yeah.

You can say that I really, you know, never, never gonna push a man.

I wouldn't say that I think it's a mistake or something, but that I, I know it's true.

I don't fuck with another person.

That'd be weird to see, but I just don't believe it.

What's the best thing you need to hear from me?

I don't think we need to.

Do you understand the situation?

I understand the situation.

I think it's a great loss for the administration of the rest of the country.

But I think if we can develop that relationship where I'd like to have him come down and be available to come in and have talks,

because we're going to be in some complicated operations.

And I made the other point.

I said, in many ways, I think this is good to hear from you.

It would be better to, as a political strategist, we're going to act with this, right?

I'll follow your president.

Then you can't now.

You're not tied down in the near future.

That's right.

I mean, you don't have to testify in Congress and all that kind of crap.

But one thing that you do lose is the platform from which you speak.

He said, I'm so sure about that.

He said, first of all, let him build up.

I'll express my support of the president and all that, but then let him build up.

Why the hell am I electing him?

Let him scoot a little out.

Let him say he left because he couldn't be vice president or he left because he...

it's going to come back in another role next year, or he left because he's going to take over the Democratic Party, or whatever it might be, but he and all the others have got left.

Let's turn those up.

Then let me drop a bomb.

And then he said, I am still convinced that Teddy Kennedy is going to be nominated by the Democratic Convention.

If Teddy Kennedy is nominated, I will devote the last drop of blood in my body to his defeat.

Now, I try to get back to what a few people were nominated for.

He said, you know, we were talking about politics and so you don't think it's possible to tell enough of you.

He said, I think the only possibility of that would be if Teddy is absolutely convinced there is no way to win the election.

He said, he then might push it to you.

Just in order to avoid the loss.

You know what you were saying yesterday?

You can't rule out the government.

I did, too.

I did until I heard somebody.

He's got, he's got a good study.

He says, now this may be here.

He says, McGovern may think he's going to go all the way.

Yeah.

But Kennedy controls the McGovern people.

And when Kennedy wants McGovern to sell it, that's all he does.

He pulls the string and McGovern goes right down the tube.

And then he's done.

I'm not so sure he's right about that.

I don't know how.

I don't want to challenge John Connolly's knowledge of the Democratic political scene.

You think Connolly would support you?

That's not what I want to tell him.

I can't believe he would.

I don't think he would.

He might.

I don't think he would.

He would not attack you.

If Teddy gets up there, I honestly think Connolly would take the stump and say this guy will be injured.

He's a girl-killing son of a bitch.

He can't hold that office.

Correct.

But if you were poor out there, I think what he would do is go around positively saying Richard Nixon isn't an outstanding job until he reelected.

This is quite important.

Is he going to give or leave?

Have you thought about that?

I don't know.

We need to get him to discuss it.

Well, that's something you've got to think about, too, doesn't it?

Now, he is still worried about himself.

Which may be the other factor.

He hasn't heard him come up and take his blood pressure.

He should.

He said he could.

Takes his blood pressure three times a day.

And he's got that scenario.

He's scared.

Now, he's probably got him scared.

He's not one, though, that can ever solve the idea of him coming home from it.

You think you can say that?

would want to be.

What do you think?

I don't know.

That's the real problem.

Let me start the other way around.

First, the timing should be not before we go to the party in Texas.

I don't think that would be right at all.

There's too much going on this week.

There's got to be an option in the rest.

The timing should be, in my view,

After we return from Texas, about a week before we go to Russia, the 15th of May, the 15th of May ride, which gives us a chance to get everything all the while done.

So we hit that thing, and then keep on with our rushing plan, and then go on through, and the rushing story will then override that for a while.

I told you the question last night, whether it was worth trying and whether it would be worth it.

I don't think it is.

This is the problem I think all of our people have in England.

They don't realize how big a man he considers himself to be.

I don't even know.

I'm not sure you want to say

No, I agree.

I agree.

Mike, you can also instruct her if he moves out.

Well, and it puts him in the category that Dave Kennedy and Chip and Bob Finch and so on and so forth.

I think he's better off to move out.

He's got to declare his support strong.

Yeah.

And he's got to say, I attended the most great deal of my time and I had to realize the original.

Yeah, but you've got to get him to agree to say that.

Don, if he doesn't say that,

that it's going to really raise a whale, and then let them.

And I came here because I believe in them.

I believe in them just as strongly or more strongly now.

And I intend to, he will have my support in the background.

He doesn't need to say he's going to have my support in the background.

That ain't my support in the background.

Get it?

You see, that will kill the

opposition story to a great extent.

You see, they would like to think that he got out and is a free agent for the Democratic administration.

He must not be that.

He cannot be in the position of hanging out there at the Democrats' toilet.

He may want to get there.

You've got the impression in your talk that maybe that's what he wanted to do, sort of let it build up and knock it down.

I don't think so.

That kind of speculation is not helpful.

I don't think he's really thought through that scheme.

I think he has to do that, because I think that would be enormous.

Otherwise, his going away would be a great political story rather than... Well, also, that's the way to avoid the appearance of the, uh, the, uh, on this question of the, uh, against an argument to make the assumption that, uh, the appearance of his seeming to oppose you would indicate

of crumbling of the economic cost of our system.

That's right.

We're in occurrence of this meeting with full support.

That's right.

And of our policy, no policy difference.

And support of our policy.

Yeah.

Support of our policy and support of the President.

You think the fact is that if he didn't take his leading on throwing out Rodgers, putting him in Secretary of the United States,

I think that's what he really wants, Secretary of State, if he wanted any position at all.

I'm not so sure he didn't want Vice President.

Well, he sees that can't be done.

I'm not so sure.

Well, he probably does, because he really sees it can't be done, and he's not frustrated.

No, I don't think he, though, when I talk to him about Vice President, he sure isn't.

I know.

But he hated the idea that he didn't want to be Attorney General.

No, he realized he's a big man.

And also, I think you've got to figure out, I do think he has all these problems.

I think he's worried about himself.

And also, I think, frankly, he says, well, he's thought it through.

He says, well, if I'm going to leave, I've got to leave before I've ever left as an actor.

That's the substance that's back at everybody's mind.

You don't need to think about it.

It's the natural beauty.

Righteousness.

I don't think I'm kidding myself.

I think, and look at this as being, we talked last week about the problem of better letting go because the price of keeping is too high.

I agree.

I think it is.

The price of the battles you fight, you don't know, but you have to handle them.

And he was very honest about that.

He said, Bob, I only see three options.

One is...

He said, I can't deal with these little problems.

I don't think they should.

I should be a bigger man.

You're right.

They do bother me.

He wants to run everything in the shop.

That's right.

He said, that's the way I do things.

And I'm too old to change.

You know what?

That's one reason.

Because they want to change.

But also, you know, that's one reason.

He would have great difficulty.

Yep.

He would.

He'd be scary as a president.

Just like Mr. Johnson.

He said, I could call you about every little problem and we'd solve them.

I'm sure we could if you and I did.

I said, I don't want to do that.

I don't want to go over it myself.

And the great thing, you know, every time some staff guy calls one of my staff guys and says, you know, we'll put a budget, $100 in the budget from here to there or something.

I don't want to call you and say, why the hell is he doing that?

He said, I know you can't turn that off.

You can, and you know the specifics, but you can't on a general basis.

He said, that's, so I can deal with that.

Or I could just live with it, which I can't do.

You know?

Or, I didn't want to say it, but anyway, his argument that this is not really, he said, he says on the domestic economy, I argue on the economy.

You know, that doesn't rule anymore.

Six months ago, or a year ago, that would have been right.

Today, the domestic economy is on a course that can't be changed.

and it's not exactly the right course.

You're going to have hell to pay next year.

You're going to have inflation.

You're going to be backing an inflation thing next year.

This is going to be a terrible, tough problem for the president in his second term.

But if it's somebody else's, that's not all bad.

The problem, the concern you really had to have was getting the economy in the right place by November, and you got that.

Nobody can change that number.

There is plenty to change.

You've done that one, or we've done that one, right?

He's rather confident.

In other words, very confident that it's going to move up.

Very.

He's only concerned that the pressure's going to go up, too.

You got it?

But we're getting a lot of that stuff.

We do not support that.

And he said, you won't have any in the supermarkets or anything like that.

That will be something of a loss to you, because that was the guy who was actually good on that and shows more people.

He said, that'll be a little problem, but that is a big problem.

He said, as far as your stuff on the hill,

The only thing you've got to get is the debt ceiling.

And that's it.

You've just got to hang tight.

I'll give you my parting advice on that.

If you leave the following week, I'll give you my parting advice and you don't pay more than that.

The debt ceiling has got to be raised.

See, they're trying to hold the debt ceiling hostage for an extra vote.

And the county's position is tell them to go to hell.

Tell them to raise the debt ceiling.

They have to raise it.

It's their fault, not yours.

They're the ones who set the money, not the president.

But they appropriated it.

They appropriated it.

So they've got to raise the debt ceiling.

Now, if they won't raise the debt ceiling, you say, that's fine.

I'll pull it down in front of the governor.

Turn off the debt ceiling until I want it.

That's just fine.

I'll tell the controller of the dispersing office that they need no more checks.

See how long you up there on the Hill want your Social Security people and constituents not to get their checks.

And how long you want your staff not to get paid.

Because that'll last about eight hours.

And that's not going to last as long as Congress has ever acted.

And Russell Long.

I 100% agree with that.

Don't give them a cent.

The worst thing you can do is pay any hostage for the death sentence.

That is when they think they've got you on a barrel line.

They don't.

They're on a barrel line.

You've got to play hard and strong and cold and solid.

I don't know of any other people.

I don't know what our general view is.

You've got to get that view to McGregor.

But it is absolutely not the view that you

Oh, I don't think we can pay any.

We can cancel another lousy tax period.

Well, his point is they're trying to make it look like the debt ceiling is the president's problem.

And his answer to them is the debt ceiling is not the president's problem, it's the Congress's problem.

They passed the tax legislation and they passed the appropriation legislation.

Therefore, they created the deficit.

Very good.

Now they've got to approve the deficit that they created.

Correct.

If you don't approve, you can stop spending.

You can obviously stop spending where it hurts then, which is you cut off Social Security and all that.

You can't stop spending in Vietnam.

You can't stop spending here without that government worker.

That's right.

You can just put them all on suspension.

Suspend there, but include yourself.

And there.

I don't think you're going to have any clinical operations.

I think he has a very guilty feeling.

I don't think he feels good about doing this.

But I don't think his mind is made up.

I don't think he's changing.

Well, anyway, whether his mind is made up or not, I think that if I were to hit him hard enough, he'd get down on my knees and beg and stay and stay.

But on the other hand, he would stay unwillingly.

And he'd be unhappy.

And he'd be in an even greater problem.

We can't do that.

And it wouldn't guarantee that he'd stay forever.

And he might just pop out one day and say, all right, I'm leaving.

Well, we know how material he is.

And all he needs is some, you know.

Also, we know that other members of our staff sometimes might be all right.

They don't want to say it.

But, I mean, our staff and some of them will try to hit on the State Department.

The State Department.

All right.

And we can't control that.

Well, I think if you say you want to be vice president, he doesn't do that.

I didn't get it.

I think he still could do it.

I think he could.

I still haven't.

You mean with him out?

Yeah.

Yeah, at the Democratic.

Look at the cycle.

He leaves now.

He goes back to private business.

Maybe that's why he's a personal financial leader.

He's got a problem.

He does have a real problem.

Okay.

So, you know, a lot worse than that.

He gets his pots around, and then the Democrats have their concession.

It ends.

And at the end of it, which I think this is the scenario we see, at the end of their campaign, I think he feels that now he doesn't have a basis.

He can't say, I know they're going to nominate this guy or that guy, and I've got to oppose.

Well, can't he say, rather than oppose, he's got to say, I think you can say you support him.

I support him rather than I, and he will have my support for him after.

I think he will.

But when they say we're going to campaign for him, and then after the convention, he says, now I'm going to drop everything and campaign.

That's the thing I think he ought to say.

I think he will.

Yeah.

So then he does that.

After the convention, he says, screw the goddamn Democrats.

I'm going to not mobilize this country for Nixon's reelection.

Yeah.

Then he hits the stump for a while.

Really hungry.

Right.

the Nixon pre-election before, between the two conventions.

Right.

And our convention is still in a position where you can play that game with us.

Yep.

Do you have a problem, though, with Eggman now, Bob, that he's doing better?

Potentially, yes.

We don't agree.

Not a lot, but I think he's doing better.

And they partly do the presses.

You know, they blow him up by not rapping about it enough.

just by, by being invisible to that thing, you know?

And then they come on and, you know, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning, and I go to the morning,

So, I'll say whatever you want me to say.

I don't think he will.

He feels stronger than that.

How does he feel about the war?

He must feel we're doing the right thing.

Absolutely.

Or does he?

Yes.

He would have no doubt about that.

Very positive.

He's very positive on everything.

He thinks you're in this super...

Well, let me get the scenario.

May 15th should be the time.

Then I think that if you were to get some more time on it today, I think we ought to have the Texas, but I have a number of reasons.

I think what I think you ought to do is to go over and tell him the truth about this petition.

He's the only one in the government to tell him to accept me as his man.

You're not, I'm just going to say, nobody is being told about that here.

We just can't have Rodgers learn about it for two years.

You can tell him that the petitioner is, the way you tell it, we've heard from the Russians.

The Russians, the way we're going to tell Rodgers,

The Russians, the Russians, as they messaged me, they would like to discuss on a secret basis this Vietnam situation.

I have all tried to listen to you, but I'm not going to talk to such folks.

I'll tell Roger to see him Thursday morning.

He got a message yesterday, and I just said, go on.

I'm not going to talk to such folks on Vietnam.

Now, actually, that is,

almost totally true, because that's to come first, and some of the stuff will be discussed.

I think they... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

If he said, well, they're going to discuss the summit, the President said he would send history to discuss the Vietnam situation, and the summit negative, and discuss it on the channel, and as you know, and the purpose of this is to discuss Vietnam, and this is...

And that the result is, and frankly Bill, is the result of your hard line, the President's hard line last week on Canada.

And of course, at the biological war, Bill's hard line.

And I wouldn't mention whether the Russians would find it got their attention.

I sent a visitor off last night by secret flight.

He arrived in Moscow, totally secret.

I'm just here to announce it next week.

That's what worries me about what was on set.

I just wonder if Henry said something stupid.

Henry told somebody.

Not about us, but I think he said, well, you know, Henry, he could have said something smarter type of somebody.

Well, just wait until next week.

Well,

It doesn't matter.

He realizes it's a mega thing, but it doesn't.

If I were a smart newspaper reporter, I didn't say that anyway.

It's better to smoke a song.

So forget it.

Bill's up in Jersey.

Well, I don't tell Bill that people need to publicize this.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

That is determined when we get back, because the Russians have agreed that we can publicize it.

But we don't say that until we get back.

No.

Because that will hit Bill right on the wall.

No.

No, no, no.

As of now, it's a secret.

It's a secret.

It's a public decision.

It's public.

It's made after Henry comes back.

The Russians say, yes, we should.

Yeah.

Obviously, it's to our interest.

That's right.

Because if they give anything at all on vacation, they're... Now, Henry was asking about a time for doing that because he wanted to...

I talked with Henry about it, and I told him to go and that I could go as late as 10 o'clock on the first time.

6 o'clock Moscow time, where you'd be there morning, paper and radio.

Your view, which you told me about, is, in my view, not as good.

We can get away with it.

We have to do it.

I mean, your idea of the double bounce.

You've got to realize that we're up there against the press corps, you know, that is sort of panicking to chop this up.

And I'd recommend that you open the conference.

We want to use it to help you.

And Flannery has some convictions.

They'll all sit there with their written questions

So you're quacking on the fact that history's been in Moscow, talking to the Russians about Vietnam, and that I have approved for, you see my point?

Otherwise, you get them all afternoon.

You get them all afternoon, you see.

You sit around and ask others about it.

Why did this secret talk, should they go down and talk to the Senate?

You see my point?

I mean, we may not know what their choice, but I hope we have another choice.

I'll just do it that way.

I don't consider it ill-conceived, but on the common thing, that's a good thing.

I think that you, before I talk to him, however, should work out the modalities.

I think we should go down to the Texas thing and have it done.

I think we work out the modalities, and we're not going to tell, we won't tell Schultz.

Nobody should be told in this government, you understand?

It's the best way to keep the secret, not to tell anybody.

We won't tell Schultz, it's very equal, you know?

And then I'll call him in and tell him.

And put everything in train right at that time.

Now, listen, don't tell anybody.

I don't want anybody to know.

Nobody.

Not Erwin.

Nobody.

Not Mitchell.

Not now.

Mitchell hasn't been told anything before.

Or you might be able to tell Mitchell.

No.

Why?

I think I'd wait.

I'd wait.

Let the press in Texas go.

Let them go.

Texas should know three or four days in advance.

That's the way that you feel, so.

I don't think it matters.

Well, no.

I don't know what they're trying to tell me.

They're wrong.

I know.

It's the same.

I don't think it will matter whether they have to cover it in a different way.

It's irrelevant.

It has to do with the fact that they've been in contact with you earlier because you crossed this out there.

How would you cross it out?

Well, it's like trying to get, because God worries about getting things done.

Like, like,

I'm going to assign 10 treasure agents to the narcotics division.

That's the kind of stuff that drives me on the end of the wall.

The thing I want you to do, the thing I want you to do is to tell her, I don't know, tell her to take up nothing at the lower levels of treasure for the next couple of weeks.

The only thing.

He has sent an option paper over on the next floor.

He really has to say what he's going to do.

Yeah.

But did you tell her anything?

Nothing.

that we've done at the lower uptown church up in Sheridan and it's never the same thing as to be going to Schultz.

And just keep it that we want to be, put it on the basis that we want to let everybody be thinking only about the tax reform decision and just forget all the other shit that's up in the 15th century.

Fair enough, yeah.

You got another?

And then we'll hear from Schultz.

What was it that?

The need to make some very immediate, basic, basic decisions.

You're up to $38 billion.

Because of what?

Because of, uh, legislation that's coming.

Shifting of receipts.

I don't know a lot of stuff, but...

His point is, what is the first thing you do about it?

What are you seeking, other than your understanding of this?

I understand that I've said that before, but just that you've got to make, if you want to, a firm decision that you have to stay within a bullet point of balance of 74, and make that known now, and then take the actions that relate to it.

Would you be deferring some of your programs?

trying to kill some legislation and then not kill it and be prepared to be killed.

And to the first of the men's base closings, to squeeze another 5 million out of the men's, squeeze another 3 million by letting Reverend Sherry, Special Reverend Sherry, slip a few months, and letting General Reverend Sherry slip a couple of years.

Demanding that

H.R.

1 would go on a reasonable social security and Medicare increase, which is $40 billion, you could say.

Conferring, in fact, the date of welfare on H.R.

1 would go from $50 billion.

H.R.

1 would down $100 billion.

See, that's $9 to $14 billion.

So H.R.

1 would merge on that.

And then moving on, the strict outlay control of unexcludes, controllable, so you know, moving back to the standard contract.

He said if the budget can't be kept to AI and if you're continuing for that to default on the balances for our mill and our total bill, we need your guidance on your post-election position on the major items and totals and internal bills.

I need your support in preparing this bill to come out.

Let's just understand one thing with regard to this.

I can't do that right now.

I can't meet with him right now.

And for the purpose of going over this, there is no time for you to follow him.

I won't disturb anybody to talk about this problem.

I know all those problems.

Just make a note to George.

God damn it, he should know better than that.

First of all, we're trying to kill H.R.

1.

Maybe he hasn't been told.

He hasn't been told.

Well, get a roadmap.

Get a memorandum and a roadmap, okay?

I'll tell you what you're doing then.

Early on, you can go down the line and do things.

One, we're trying to kill H.R.

1.

I'm not going to do anything anyway, and I will not be bored after the election.

Second, with regard to the defense, man,

That's going to depend on events in the next, I mean, it will be affected by a hell of a lot of events over the next two months.

We can't make any decisions on the defense budget now before the Moscow summit.

George knows that.

I mean, you can't enough baseballs and threaten the height of an offensive by the enemy, Bob.

But afterwards, we may be able to.

I mean, we'll be able to go to first trombone.

Third, and I'm prepared to do that on the defense summit.

The third thing is regard revenue sharing.

I told her it's the view of her argument that it can't be passed in the Senate.

In other words, that it will, well, he said it might be passed in the Senate, but that it will be so damn cluttered up that it probably can't be taken to any event.

I am prepared to be for revenue sharing.

It is in the drop of a hat.

And I'm not, both special revenue sharing and general revenue sharing,

It is, it exceeds, you know, it's, it goes beyond what we had.

Retroactivity, what they were looking for.

But gentlemen, I mean, I, I, I want to talk to her about that.

The, so there's defense, revenue sharing, H.R.

1.

What is this other bill?

That's it.

Could I, could I just get a voice on H.R.

1?

One is welfare and the other is security and Medicaid.

Oh, I know, I know.

The Social Security one.

Now we have to be able to put it all into each other.

They're doing the whole thing.

We're prepared to do that.

You see, George doesn't have to be at the office to do that with me.

And I'm fighting these battles a hell of a lot more underground than he is.

You know, he goes out and he swore all these goddamn things.

And I'm against them all.

I'm against driven machinery.

I realize we have to flush them all.

But we've got to fight it in a clever way.

George would go out and say, well, we're going to go out and fight all this because that'll kill us.

You can't run off from your programs.

That's why we... George probably doesn't realize the reason we sent that goddamn letter down there to Bennett on H.R.

1 was to kill us, not to get it true.

See my point?

That was the strategy, Bob.

I'm against it.

That was the whole purpose of that.

As I said to Eric, I said to Eric, I said, this will kill him.

Because it puts us in the middle and we've got the right wing and we've got the left wing.

That's the whole purpose of it.

What I think he's really trying to do is reassure himself as to whether you want him to be doing what has to be done now to avoid getting locked to things that he doesn't have.

I want to pass the bullet point.

I want Earlyman, but without a proper economy with it, if I may say, economy or any kind of enemy.

We get into this thing, you know, economy's got other things to think about.

And I've got other things to think about.

I want Earlyman and Schultz to sit down.

We can sit with them for that matter.

Earlyman and Schultz.

Then Perlin has got to confide himself and say, George, the president is disenchanted with H.R.

1, period.

He believes we may have to fight, you know, a lot to prepare to fight for Social Security, period.

Even that, and the old folks, we may have to brush the old folks.

They're boasting a lot.

I understand that.

I'm not going to sit here and have this goddamn bunch of patrolling on the line if we have to go and do that the other day.

And on the defense thing, it must be done after Moscow.

Henry must be told that there's going to be this goddamn bell-typing on the fence.

I am well aware of that.

But if after Moscow we do not get the kind of an assentment or agreement on the limitation of arms that we want, then we may have to go over any recent taxes in order to have added the defense.

But you see, that's another thing.

But nothing can be done on defense at this time.

Nothing soft.

If a story were to leak out, the budget was pushing me on a closed basis to reduce the message now about that.

You see my point?

Now, George has raised exactly the right points.

And maybe you can take it up with him.

And then within a week, I'll sit and talk to George.

But I don't want a two-figure group.

George is all right.

Herman's all right.

Connolly, I don't know.

I don't know what the hell he could contribute.

Well, he could contribute to a political deal.

John is, you know, George is putting Conley in simply on the basis that Conley's supposed to be in everything.

No, no, no, no, no.

I have to try to, George will finally know what to do.

A memorandum of gold, if you will, you've seen over now what you have in contact with Conley.

Can I please?

don't have any goddamn shit break with this period.

Because if the others don't know, I don't think even earlier than three months is the sensitivity of the situation.

So you just handle it.

And say, no, we don't have this problem.

And then get that memorandum and say, look, I shared some things.

And that he and I should meet on it first.

That's what I want.

just he and I alone first, and then we'll call in after that.

Tom, I don't want to meet, though, until after we go to Texas.

The week after we come back from Texas, I'll spend on this bunch of problems, see?

That's a pretty good time, the first week of May.

and that I'll meet them.

But I want him to think about it because he and I then will make the decision.

And then he may have to get up and make a hell of a speech like this sometime.

In the meantime...

This is the kind of thing that irritates Tom.

You know, he thinks it's something he should be deciding.

Like, you know, he's wrong.

I mean, Schultz is wrong.

He's a budget man.

That's the way it works.

that Connolly and I will talk about the politics of the thing, what we think we can do, then we'll get Shultz and Ehrlichman in.

You also should talk to, have Ehrlichman reassure Shultz about, I don't want to raise subjects that I've already decided.

And I don't know whether Ehrlichman can safely tell Shultz that we're trying to kill H.R.

1.

I'll track him down.

You see what I mean?

I can't imagine he has no record.

Maybe he has.

Well, I think Clark was aware of our strategy and we were trying to kill him.

I know Richardson is.

We haven't told him that.

Because we can't.

See what I mean?

But I guess what has to happen here is that George has to be killed.

George doesn't know.

H.R.

1 is easy.

There's no goddamn good anyway.

He should be killed.

And frankly, Revenue should.

I hope he's killed.

So, again, the main thing on Revenue, it's a good program, Bob.

But there ain't a...

I heard what was made of it.

I said, John, how many votes are there in it?

He said, not a lot, man.

And you see, with all of our talk, he said, well, it's great all the mayors are for it.

I said, that's great.

What the hell?

Votes are in it for us.

And there ain't a vote.

Get the point?

Nobody cares.

Property tax, you know?

But that's the other end of this.

He's thinking what we can do there.

No, we've got to do the right thing.

I don't think he ought to stir up the defense.

I don't think he ought to know that this is a problem he should handle by himself without telling Mal.

and rush at this time, because when they start, like, hunking around like they've been to a week.

But Henry's got to know when the 5-agent's going to come on.

Is that what it said, the number he wants?

5-agent?

Yeah.

Okay.

5-agent comes on.

Two to five.

All right.

So it's a lot of fun.

On five.

You get two.

Right.

We'll get more than that.

You'd be surprised.

It's time to move on here.

You see, the thing about this, by the end of this calendar year, if we survive, the war in Vietnam will be over.

By the end of this calendar year.

No way.

And that means the air war, too.

Because at the end of this calendar year, after the election, we should win it.

We don't win the election.

It's somebody else's problem.

And we should win the election.

We then would go all out to say, all right, it's better not

blockade, we'll bomb, we'll get our prisoners back, and at the end of the war, we'll bring them to their knees.

We'll do it November the 5th, 6th, what's the date of the election?

7th.

September the 8th, maybe, is the date of Armageddon for these people.

And it will be one, too.

But you see what I mean, Bob?

That'll change the name a lot, too.

That'll change the name.

Maybe it's got to be

That's the best way to handle that one.

I'll tell George in two weeks to think about it.

Okay, may I be going in?

I'm concerned about this Henry cover.

I think we're making a few party to a lie that's going to be known next Wednesday to have been a lie.

Then don't do it.

Then I'm going to make you argue.

All right, fine.

I won't do it.

Fine.

I mean, I don't say that he's a candidate, but that's my point.

Finally, we've got to find some other place for him to be.

All right.

Or else say he's a candidate and not have you there.

You can be simple enough.

one for the other.

If you say he's with you, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm hypersensitive, but this seems to me, what are you going to say?

That I get your point.

You have a problem?

I'll get this point right away.

Say he's funded.

One point that we should discuss before we get into the actual meeting about this current situation, we haven't met in an hour.

You're right, you're right.

I mean, I can't be party to the lie.

Well, they do say he's gone off to a ranch in Puerto Rico for a weekend off.

He's going to Georgia State.

He's going to New York or something.

He's taking the weekend off.

I think we ought to be quiet.

Well, he's taking the weekend off.

He's not well.

He got home today.

He took some time off before, but there's something he's off to do.

And let him speculate.

Let him speculate the, uh, parents.

Yeah.

And first of all, he's got to be discovered the future he did it.

Then they'll start asking questions.

They say, well, no, I don't know.

I don't know.

yeah yeah

And he was telling me about the four translators.

I guess that's why Scully was so upset just today.

He didn't show up for the ceremony.

I thought he was just a translator.

Did he have anything to do with it?

I don't know.

The four translators, according to either the Chinese translators, who didn't show up for the ceremony, or the Rose Doctrine on the ground.

I can't thank you all for this, though.

Oh, about something like that.

I kept hanging on to the phone thinking Bob was coming on.

I was like, don't go through this.

No.

No, I mean, just, you didn't know what Henry was saying.

There were four translators that put out a story that the effect was that you, the boy got into a meeting with major Americans.

Yes.

How about them?

Did Scali, did he have any control over the Jews?

Oh, he had no control over them.

Huh?

Who arranged it then?

These are guests of the state.

These are an exchange program.

What the hell?

Of course they are.

They don't work for the state of the country.

Well, they would naturally tend to be molested anyway, wouldn't they?

We have a problem with that.

We have that all the way along.

How's that?

They want to run the whole tour.

They've created

I guess that long-haired guy didn't show up either.

I was looking for him.

I didn't see him.

Oh, they have a number.

They have a Chicago table.

I mean, he's probably purposefully close by.

You've got a good story on all that.

I've been to visit, and they play here.

The game's going to be one of the most real winners.

And that's what it said on television.

I didn't even know about this until Scali brought me the story.

But Scali gets so morally upset about Harry Potter.

The story of the ping-pong bit is very funny.

It was you in the Rose Garden, the flowers blooming, and you saying that the real winner in this is the friendship of the people.

It was a page picture in the Daily News in New York.

And I don't get upset.

Both of those are highly possible.

And that was the TV story.

That's my point.

You've got to tell each other to get more respect.

Don't worry about that.

Well, it takes a lot.

He was responsible for all that.

Well, he is responsible.

How could he do that?

The problem, Henry, is I think Bob is right.

I don't think we can use that cover of Camp David because it makes me party to a lot.

That I can't do.

You see, if I say...

that, well, as Ziegler said, this is what Dr. Pritchard said, he doesn't can't be president.

I am then parting to it.

And I think we've been alive on anything else, but I can't get it that close to me, where I basically am using myself as a cover.

That's how good I am on it.

That's the point.

We've got to see if it's going on in New York or something.

Nobody's going to know if it's going on for a couple of days.

We've got meat set up.

We've got meat set up while we can.

That's my point, I don't know.

It'd be better if I were a janitor than if you were not.

I apologize that I said that.

I have no problem with the equipment having caused the injury.

The other problem is if you have to deal with an injury, it can't be if you're going to focus on the performance and not on pressing just on the fact of what the hell you're up there doing.

this campaign that is the site of Nixon bombshells.

I agree with the campaign.

Yeah, they figure we're working on the announcement and all that sort of thing.

You see, the point is, it's really the question that you and I, I can't use myself.

I don't want to work with somebody else.

Thank you to be a candidate with your staff.

Well, I haven't come to know where they haven't come from.

I'll take them and put them in the newspaper tomorrow night.

which I was going to, but she had made a special point of getting me to come.

Yeah, you should have told me that at that time.

All right, but at that point, she was just about to take, you know, score a point.

No, no, I, I, I felt that.

Well, what do you, well, let's both, let's, let's run the thing by then in terms of Henry going to the camp table.

So, what did you say?

At that time, I didn't know what to do.

It's been a while.

You might say that everybody's speculating about the truth and the rest.

Getting the report from Haig and so forth and so on.

That buys you two days.

Sent Haig up there to see.

Then I would have to go talk to Haig here.

I don't know, maybe.

What's that?

Haig, what?

I don't know.

Haig, he had to police everything.

I agree.

That won't work.

But what else, what else?

I mean, he'd go up for a while.

Come down.

He can shut us, they will.

See, you're worried about bureaucracy.

I'm worried about the press.

You've got two different problems.

I don't know what the president has to want to do, but... You see, if the bureaucracy gets out there and says this is the end, you don't have a president.

Maybe it just is well left in thinking about the press again.

I think that the president, this thing is so hot,

Why do we have to, maybe we have to pay the price.

Ziegler doesn't say a goddamn word.

You got a problem there because we... You also put out the guest list of everybody who can't date.

Sure, because we mostly use the guest list that can't date as a device.

Well, but could we do this, Mr. President?

We don't always say that.

Could the President go up there?

If we said, like what?

Like, well, go tomorrow night, but then have some active domestic things going on up there, too, and Burlingame and others, would that be such a strategy that the session is made?

You will have a drill for your whole staff up there, so it doesn't focus it on getting the trip to Burlingame and the President over again.

Then what is the question?

What is the question that is asked?

That's no problem there.

I think that should be done in any event.

I would say I'm there to have a general view of my thing.

Well, you've got to say something about it.

Ron doesn't have to say where he is.

What the hell?

The minute he doesn't say where he is, everybody's gonna be running to the Paragon.

Does anybody ever ask Ron where Mr. is?

No, Henry's problem is, if he says no office, the calls will come in.

Every day, five, six, 12, 13, no more than that.

I take one out of 10.

Yeah.

One, six, 12, 13.

say better, you know, if I'm right, somebody will say better to you.

Then, if you say can't take it, somebody should have said it to me.

What better thing?

If you say can't take it, then they're going to, then they'll have to say to you, is this your can't take it?

And what's he doing?

That's what I have to say, yes.

And who else is there?

And what's going on?

You're leaving tonight.

Would it be the hell of a lot better if they let me be a better person?

I believe tonight, it seems to me that the least you ought to do, you have to go to some party today.

But I arranged the party so that people would see that the least you ought to do is to go away to Camp David.

What does that do for you?

Well, because you went to Camp David.

And after you got there, you took off to see my wife.

Of course, I'm not going there tonight.

I'm not going tomorrow night, because I received a press tomorrow myself.

No, I don't know.

We'll think about it.

I don't know what you're talking about.

You see, there is a problem with just straight complicity.

I don't know.

On the other hand, the stakes are goddamn high, Bob, and we just have to...

and not me, I'm not going to answer any questions.

They're not there in the camp.

Why don't we just say that I'd just like to have a general staff meeting and invite Schultz, Ehrlichman, what's that name?

When are they going to say it?

They won't say it.

They aren't going to say it.

We don't have to tell them where you are.

We just say Henry's somewhere else.

They don't see each other anyway.

We don't know your name.

For Christ's sake, don't bite her.

We can't talk about it.

We can't trust that.

None of you have her.

I wouldn't have a chance.

I don't think we need to answer that.

Yeah, Ehrlichman.

Perfectly out of the coverage by taking Ehrlichman.

Ehrlichman.

And then Ehrlichman could be on the legal.

All right.

Domestic matters.

Just a general domestic and foreign policy problem.

Yeah, Ehrlichman and Kissinger and Meek, which is a logical group that goes.

Right.

You know, we've done that a number of times.

Right.

I was going to question that.

We're going over long-range budget planning.

Yeah.

No, no.

Okay, Mr. General.

Just long-range, some long-range.

There's absolutely no question.

I don't see anybody.

I'd have Schultz up there.

Why don't we just say something?

Well, and then you go over to O'Connor.

He's the only one that you brought in and say, look, we're going to say we're discussing budget problems, but

First of all, they're not going to know us Thursday.

Nobody's going to be asking any questions Friday.

Thursday night, I will leave the editor's meeting and fly directly up there.

I'm going at 7 o'clock or 6.30, and I'll go to Camp David.

And then by that time, if you say that the rest of us will go up, I think the rest of you will go up.

I think the rest of you, actually, if I may suggest, should go tonight.

Let me tell you the advantage of that, Bob.

If you...

I don't need your version anyway.

I think you and John Erland should get on a helicopter tonight and go up to Camp David.

That's the cover.

And frankly, I still think the idea of having these girls in Kansas on a cave van tomorrow night too, that's probably, that's great.

That's great.

That's what that would be.

Now listen, the point is, I don't think that the, I really don't think shows is necessary for this.

Let's not say we're discussing a bunch of people over here other than

General Saffney.

I think you, and I suggest this, after the dinner tonight though, you, Henry, Henry, it's going to take 35 minutes of your time, that's all.

Were you going to have Dabrina meet you there?

Were you going to have Dabrina ride your helicopter with you too?

I wasn't going to take it.

All right, Andrew.

In this instance, we've got to take this, so it doesn't take any more time anyway.

I really believe, Henry, that in order to get the cover adequately, that you've got to get on that helicopter after your dinner.

And you, Bob, and Erlichman, fly to Camp David.

They get off.

You stay on the damn helicopter, and it takes you there.

How's that sound to you?

Then you have gone to Camp David.

What do you think, Bob, of that?

Don't you think that makes some sense?

It would be so lovely.

That's right.

And then they stay, see.

Then I will tell, I will blabber on that, you know, that I have to be there because the president wants an intensive staff meeting.

He's going to have a meeting at Camp David over the weekend.

Yes.

Yeah, where, where, a group of the right planning team.

We're having a planning, a staff meeting with domestic and foreign policy, both with his staff, one of his regular quarterly meetings, put it that way.

Regular quarterly meetings.

So it doesn't appear that we're there to discuss improvement for all of them.

Well, that's why you want Ehrlichman.

Yeah.

Ehrlichman is there.

That takes it away from Vietnam.

Then the three of you can go.

Maybe you're all going to the same dinner tonight anyway.

Are you?

I'm going to.

Frankly, Mr. Bittman, I had turned it down.

It was a dinner that probably wouldn't have given percent to the same group.

That's all right.

It paid very well.

But she won't run past 11, won't she?

No.

Why don't you tell her you have to leave at 10 o'clock?

I just saw 10.30.

I just saw it.

It would be helpful for me to have a lot of New York Times TV.

Right.

You're absolutely right.

And therefore, I didn't accept it after having turned it down when I knew I had to cancel out at 10.30.

And then, I don't think he needs to go up.

I think John and I can go on.

I think it's easy.

I think so.

All right, we'll get the dude around and then...

He'll say he has to leave to join us in the discussion at Camp David.

And you go by car.

And we'll have already gone out early.

All right.

And we've got to go to Camp David.

We don't.

We aren't.

John's not at that dinner.

John's at the Cape Grand dinner tomorrow night.

He'll cancel it.

That would be a tremendous help.

I'm not at it, so I don't have anything to do with it.

But you and I are in the club, and I would not take shots.

I don't feel that we need to spread it any further than that.

And also, there's a little problem in common.

That's right.

Now, the only other problem is, how do you... How do you see Rogers?

You just have to fly, you just come down.

I mean, you can come down and go over and see Rogers, correct?

We can't have him come up there.

I don't want him to come up there.

No, I just think there's, you just get on the helicopter.

You want him to go up tomorrow morning?

Huh?

Why don't we just go up tomorrow morning?

Why would we be going tonight?

You're right.

No, you're right.

Yeah.

We're all right.

Yeah.

The good, I was going to put out.

What do you mean?

What are you going to say?

Tonight?

Yeah.

Tonight, I was just playing cool.

You're saying, yeah, I've got a, the president's having, you could just, I put it so that you're not totally lying.

You're not totally lying.

I think you should say, you should say, the president is having a, one of his, he's having a, one of his periodic, he used the word periodic planning sessions with his top staff at Camp David this weekend.

And the president is happy, and I have to be there.

Don't make a big thing out of it.

But don't make a big thing.

And just say, I'm sorry I can't be at your dinner tomorrow and pay you because of that.

Early on, Holloman and I have to be at camp David with the president.

All right, go on then.

What would happen is, we would have to go to the church.

And then about two hours later, I'd go to camp David, because I didn't know anything about camp David.

I'm trying to say, I was at camp David.

Right, right.

Yeah, I have to.

The president, and you're very careful, don't say that you have to.

The president is having a meeting, one of his periodic planning sessions with his top staff, and John Erickman, Bob Holden, and I, he's asked John Erickman, Bob Holden, and I to come to Camp David.

He's asked us to come.

Don't say you went.

You say he's asked us to come to Camp David.

And then, you see, I will have made the decision when I announce it, I'll just say, the way we're going to handle it with Russia, of course, as I said, I will take it to the final outset, but I have the message to say that we, that we, that I heard from the Russians today, because we have heard fine things over there, the Russians have, on an urgent basis, said they would like to discuss Vietnam on a, on a secret meeting with history.

Could I, do you have any idea?

No.

We will hear from the North Vietnamese if you do find, you might be able to add this, you can add that little smidgen to it.

But I want to, I think the whole thrust of Bob meeting with Rogers is to say that we've gone to Moscow at the request of the Russians, and the North Vietnamese, we're going to meet with them later, prior to the meeting of that, to discuss at their request, and so I

authorized you to go.

It's a secret.

Every dozen ships gone for that long, it's been struck.

Every day in Laird scared the hell out of them, didn't it?

Oh, you know what scared them?

Our ships.

You have the ships.

You've got those ships going out there in Arizona.

I'm sure about that.

That destroyer.

That destroyer went all the way to Laird and every one of those ships went over Laird.

He couldn't be loading these mines.

in Manila.

And that's the biggest leader in the world.

They had this burning rage, you know, and all the Russians, we may have done nothing else, but the Russians know you're out of control.

That's right.

They let me refuse to answer that message, for example, that they sent us on Sunday night.

I'd like to do that.

I trust

The answer was to just leave the land.

Oh, but what did we answer?

About the ships we answered.

Oh, yes.

That was the public one.

Well, this was a private message.

The private message they sent you in which they gave you the whole written aid.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, well, of course, I didn't say we don't continue around anything of that sort.

There'd be no answer.

Formal, informal, written.

Exactly the way Noah constantly said, you understand our course, there's nothing more we can say.

That's right.

Those ships keep moving.

And it's a valley.

The bombing in the south, in the northern part, in the southern part of North Vietnam, is essential to continue the history.

There's two cataclysm that have been designated.

Like that area?

We wanted to make absolutely sure that the concern of the air force was under agent.

And we want to make so sure that he wouldn't call it off because of some tactics emergency that we've designated two carriers who are not under apron, who will do nothing but bomb in that area with 150 soldiers a day, which is more than we ever put in on any protective reactions.

It's half of our total air force.

Is it better?

The major use of it is that for next week we have said

Mazzet's Drive, which is at the 20th, I don't know, in case I come back without anything.

Let me just tell you something, though.

You know, you've been telling me how much we're getting, and it's bigger than this and that, the other day, but I was reading last night a person's account of D-Day, and you were telling me about the fact that, well, it's 800 sorties in the lot.

You know how many sorties they blew up in D-Day?

14,000.

The British alone dropped 5,000 tons of bombs on D-Day in one day.

I bet you, I just throw that out there, but you know how many planes were involved?

11,800.

Yeah, but you have to do it in relation to the bomb load.

17 T-52s just on Saturday, on Sunday in High Farm dropped as many bombs as...

with a draft on a 1,000-plane train, it will go to a 1,000-plane campus.

A 1,000-plane, she used the draft.

I remember this was 14,000.

14,000, that's right.

There are 14,000 planes.

Well, Mr. President, there's no doubt.

So maybe we need more power out there.

That's what I'm getting at.

One thing we should do, Mr. President, the motor has found that one of these airfields can take two more squadrons.

I think we ought to get those two squadrons out there.

Yeah.

And as far as we can move, as long as we keep looking forward.

The other point Churchill made was that the Germans, as we know, expected a second landing.

Now, I don't know what relationship this has to this, but it gets back to the point that I've often made.

We've got to quit doing the expected.

The Germans expected a second landing, and as a result, they lost a week's valuable time in failing to commit their 15th army.

to that battle, remember, and they never did get it, and they never did get it, and that was, it went back into the five panzer divisions were involved in that.

Five panzers didn't get it to the battle, and they'd have killed us if they'd have gotten that.

But you see, that was part of that.

Now, the other thing that Churchill said, one rule of war, he said, you must not repeat.

You can repeat once, but not twice.

You must not repeat.

your operation.

So I think that's something to think about.

And don't let those farts out there do this same old thing again.

We have really committed to them.

They could not have expected this massive reaction.

That strike this weekend, I don't think that this would have been very good or this might have been good.

If we had done the original attack, they'd be flattered.

I've seen some of these pictures, you know.

The police took them so much by surprise that we had to do no defense at all.

These things could do just badly to us.

Next time, they're going to be much more aggressive.

Well, we should see.

At least the Russians now know that it's good to them, too.

On the political side, we've got what we want.

It's being shaken up.

On the other hand, what they can do remains to be seen.

You must remember that the president and the secretary of agriculture want me to be sure to know that maybe Gresham doesn't like me quite as well as Bean.

Well, that's why I did.

I'm on Bean's part, not to respond.

What the hell is he sitting there for?

What do our ambassadors do, sit there and have the chairman of the Communist Party kick the president of the United States around if that's what he was doing?

Not our president.

He was kicking around our policies.

All being, they just say, well now, let's understand, keep the record straight, I don't want to have a controversy, but there's been a massive debate in the South and the North, and the President tried to respond.

That's all he had to say.

Well, that didn't make a lot of difference.

Not that Buss was a fine man, he was just a naive Indiana country boy, and Eric said, but I ain't wondering, he said, well maybe, you know, just maybe he's

Russians don't have real good intelligence.

Because he asked me this question.

He said, you know, Mr. And I'm sure that he talked to Bean, but Bean didn't set it straight.

And he said, it may be the Russians that were challenging very seriously for me.

He said, I can't understand why your mom in the North is straight.

I can't understand.

He said, well, maybe they just don't have a right to talk to you.

I think I should punch to the court.

I said, right now, that's it.

Don't kid yourself.

Their intelligence is better than ours.

But it was really amusing, wasn't it?

From a wonderful guy.

But you, you, you shook up the rest, Mr. President.

Their response is too mild.

Thankfully, uh, Hanoi is responding to, to, he gave them a message on Sunday.

They've never answered us in less than two weeks.

They're back today on Wednesday.

I don't care what they say.

I mean, they may not accept what we say, but they've got to come up with at least a common proposal.

They come back and say we'll still be a bit when you drop them off.

If they do, we will ignore their comments, right?

No, they won't do that.

Okay.

They may say they will meet us on Monday if we stop the bombing.

Yeah.

I agree.

We still won't do it.

Under the circumstances, then we'll go forward with this.

You'll say that you're going to be a campaign attorney.

And then, Bob, I think you and Erwin can just go out back to your leisure jersey.

We've got us and others around us.

Or, we know we ought to go as early as we can.

Yeah.

All right.

This is good.

Well, now, the problem with the Rogers thing for me is that I just can't, I just, I don't want to get into a bully ride with him about this damn thing.

Do you think you can explain your head to him?

Okay, go ahead, Henry.

I'll see you another day.

He's got to know that this is the, the way I would do it, I would say, Bill, you've got a break.

You want to get to them.

I have a choral scene very early in the morning.

If you keep my point, call Bill at 7 o'clock to go have a break.

And Haig and I have to come over to see him and try to go to his house.

You probably don't see the reason for all this, but maybe I'm sure you will.

Keep my point.

So then you can say, yesterday, the president had an urgent message to the president saying, I mean,

The Russians would like to talk to us about it.

On a secret date.

We don't know if I was going to come out or not.

We've got to go the extra mile to find out.

I said, if you're in Moscow, now we'll learn.

You'll come out.

And we discussed this matter.

You were the only one else to know.

Nobody else knows.

And we're sending our own crew over to you.

Wake him up.

Wake him up at 7 o'clock.

Wake him at 7.

You know what I mean?

Well, no, but I mean, on an urgent basis, we've got something to discuss.

Yeah.

But what the hell?

We've lied about it before.

I mean, there is a president of Pakistan who lied about it.

Well, I want them to say a moment.

I'm going to be up there.

And Sigler says, well, I... We just say to Ron that we're up there.

I'll say, yeah, Kissinger, Ervin, and I, and we'll be here.

We'll be in and out.

We're going to hold up for the weekend.

There won't be any news.

Obviously, the fact that Kissinger was there will be...

They'll figure we're going to improve things.

We'll do a policy.

It's a general policy to do.

Do you think you ought to put Schultz in it?

No.

This is sort of what the budget take on.

Yes, it does.

And it doesn't hurt you a bit because you know we're all together and it might not bother you.

I think you ought to put Schultz in it too.

I think it's negative to say it's the general that's our, for our preliminary budget review.

But Connolly must be told.

a sad thing on it.

But I think he must be told that we're on the way to Moscow.

You see?

And they were putting, and this is a cover.

I don't know what sad budget to do.

I don't think so.

I wouldn't do that.

That's President Tupac's general policy.

budget, budget, budget policy, budget planning, and that's what you've got to do with Ron.

And Ron has much to say, look, don't tell him, I don't want him to know the truth, because I don't want him to say that he lied.

But you could just say, don't get pinned down, but how long?

any of us are there, if the president wants to be free to move in and out, you may have to, you or Henry or others may have to leave, and we'll keep you informed, but just don't get pinned down as to how long they are.

Just say that at the beginning and say nothing more over the weekend, because the sensitivity's in the cap.

Say nothing more.

How'd that sound to you?

I've got to tell him, because he'll

That's right.

And just say that that's it.

Try to find out another thing.

I'll see you later.

I don't think you need that many people in on the story.

I'll see if you keep it away from budget.

I don't think I want to do this.

I just say, you know, just a spec, top-level spec.

One of my periodic staff meetings with my top, we're worried about it much more than they will.

And I think what you should tell Ron, Ron, the president wants you to know, this is all you need to know, but you've got to put on, you don't know it then.

The president wants you to know that there may be some traffic by any one of you during this period.

But don't let him crush you any further now, because it's not in his interest.

It's certainly not in our lives.

But put it in such a way that you cover it.

You've got to be sure that you cover the fact that all three of them are there, and the President is there over this weekend.

We'll see that through Sunday.

Also, I would have hate come up.

I want hate to come up.

That's a good idea anyway.

Gets him out of the office.

Well, what else is in the domestic news?

I'm reading more today.

I've got to read the news summer, you know.

Don't give me anything that I don't have to know.

Nothing but ITT.

I know they're planning the story on a different type of time, which is good.

Hammer rather will.

Yeah, they did a good job today.

What's happened so far?

Did they get Reineke on?

Yeah, they got Reineke and Dillenwater, Dillenwater, and so on.

They finished with them already?

No.

Well, good.

I think they got them in ahead of the police.

Well, the stewards, did they finish with the stewards?

I guess so.

Well, the debate has taken place today, too, though, on the Senate floor.

They've done that, and Flanagan is on it, and there'll be a lot more.

And where do police come in?

How do I let them in?

How would they get him?

What's the news in the Democratic political front?

I see you're certainly never getting a lot of hands raised.

Oh, no, I understand that.

Look, the press is pathetically trying to stir up

a hell of an anti-war event on this thing.

Don't you think that they are?

I'm sure they are.

Henry was saying, particularly the television, he's grateful.

I think all the television on the demonstration last night, Harvard, and we thought it was lovely.

The television is growing.

Actually, Larry's got heavy coverage.

That's good.

Only CBS had the anti-war demonstrations, and what they called us, what they talked about was the small brand.

All right.

They're so obsessed with Harvard against the rest of the world.

I know, I know.

500 jackasses at Harvard go out there and burn up new papers in his old building, and the New York Times ran a story on them.

That's right.

This is the New York Times.

It's about as obsessed with Harvard as any other.

Or they're not.

We're not obsessed with Madison either.

Or for that matter, Berkeley.

You know, it becomes a thing of honor.

Why be so goddamn obsessed with all this?

You've got some good little breaks that the Democratic mayor of Alexandria, Louisiana, has announced that he's switching to the Republican Party.

Good, because he admires the courage shown by the President in his decision in the war.

Really?

Yeah.

Isn't that great?

So, thank you, James, for your brother.

Even now, the Republic of Maryland and the people of Louisiana.

That's the Hulk speaking.

Reagan urged Americans to send letters and telegrams supporting Nixon, said he had no choice but to do his own job.

American League pledged to support the nation's decisions.

Good.

The Saidis said he was nauseated by the pious pronouncements of U.S.

Senators who defended the United States while the Nordics tried to give peace on the invasion.

The President acted wisely and judiciously to help the South Vietnamese against the barbaric invasions that were leading to the invasion.

Good.

Great.

The Senate said the bombing had justified instead of having been beneficial to the psychological plus.

in front of the Indonesian army, but as he rolled across the BMC and mixed with the respondent, and acting as he had, some surprise things proposed in order to be an honest response to the deal, unfortunately, it didn't make sense, and the race may have been a desire.

That's a good line.

He is certain that the Soviet ships were hit, it was unintentional, and the Arvin is doing well on the ground.

We can't capitulate, surrender, or throw in the towel, he says.

That's good.

Could be better if we rip him.

Throw in the towel and see if there are other kinds of words that you don't know.

And of course, as you're going out there, all the choirs are trying to stir up.

Rally sit-ins and marches were staged from coast to coast.

UPI has a wrap-up saying, rally sit-ins and marches were staged from coast to coast.

How big were Harvard demonstrators set fire to the Center for International Studies, 2000 march from Columbia?

than the standard for a couple hundred broken windows, but not much widespread interest.

Call for a Friday strike and there remains to be seen on an Eagle for safety of boats for the sake of the water.

Columbia classes are in a partial standstill, although it's hard to say whether it was from spring or any other war center.

And there you go.

A lot of those are spring.

Hell, yes.

If you bought the second hand kit, it was full of spring.

CBS film of Madison, Wisconsin demonstration, much of the emotional spark of the previous demonstration is missing.

You know, they're not playing, they're singing.

And another thing about it is there isn't a hell of a lot of work right now, you know what I mean?

And so the art is expanding here.

We're just doing routine bombing.

You see, once you've done the bass track, then you can continue it for a while, right?

There's a, you know, there's a spring tell.

You're going to have some campus activity when it gets to this kind of weather, just like you want to get out on the boat, the kids want to get out and turn down the building.

So they did.

We've got a good plan here now.

It's going to be very hard.

I mean, I don't know how hard, but I think we will understand it.

And if it doesn't, it's just, as you know, the game is so big.

No problem.

We've got rockets where we've got just that boat parking.

I'm just saying, our strategy is where the Russians got over.

Yesterday, we've done the greatest of secrecy.

We went to an NRI site.

He said, at Camp David, ostensibly, over the weekend, when he's on a plane to Moscow, we'll be meeting there with the Russians, possibly in our area.

And they're in the act.

We're trying to find out what they'll do before we go further in our own escalation.

I don't think they could need to.

We don't take shows.

We just don't take shows.

Why tell Conley?

Just like you did.

There's one person who doesn't need to know it.

He just really doesn't.

Given the situation now, you have no obligation to give that people a chance to stop you.

Well, I think what you should tell Conley, though, is that there's more going on than meets the eye.

It's a very major development.

You'll tell him about it.

And you want all of our colleagues to get to it.

And I want to see it today before you go to the candidate or tomorrow.

Because if I've got plenty of time tomorrow, today is the day.

I'd say, could I tell him that you'd like to talk to him about it?

Sure, and that he could preserve the past in time.

But I want you to clear away the groundwork and have the announcement and all the rest.

Say, fine, John, we'll make it May 15th, and that's best, and we'll override it with the other story.

We will have our nice deal in Texas, and you will have a chance to correct it so that it comes in at that point.

I don't think it should come now because of your routine.

When you said, I don't want any of the parents

cracking and telling us that we think we can handle it in a way that it does not engage people leaving the ship.

But we never know what will happen.

That right now I can take no risks.

Right now I can take no risks in that story as to how the enemy or how the people, because also we've got to remember that the American press may play it that way and the enemy will pick it up.

So by the 15th of May, we will be past this point.

You know, we'll be then approaching the Russian summit.

And then I can do the right thing, crew.

We'll even make this plan.

We've made our plans in that phase.

Now, let's sit down and work this thing out.

And if he breathes, we'll, it'll be Schultz, but I won't tell Schultz to be my favorite boy.

And I'm not going to tell him to be my favorite boy.

I'm going to go with Schultz.

Maybe I'll have him tell me something.

Do you know what I mean?

No.

And nobody should be told that he's Schultz.

and so forth and so on, because we don't want any leaks on the damn thing.

In fact, we've got to play it right out of the building.

Right now, we've got to have a united front.

Fair enough.

What day is it today?

It's Monday of the week that, on Saturday, we leave for Russia.

We leave the next Saturday for Russia.

We leave on the morning.

The main thing they wanted to practice, as I say, of all the things you're trying to get out of Trump, is that when he leaves, he must not leave doubtless that he's going to be supportive of the president in the past and in the future.

He's not going to get into the party, politics, or the rest of it.

And then, if he suddenly says, well, you've got a campaigner, this and that, well, he can leave that open.

I understand that.

All right.

That's good.

That's a good job.

And incidentally, I feel a major reason for this, Bob, is that with Connolly's attitude,

He'd just be too heavy a load to carry.

He'd be too heavy a load to carry, you know what I mean?

In the sense that in his present position, and, you know, there's going to be talks about budgets and all the rest, I just cannot be bothered with things, even like a budget problem.

I just cannot be bothered with these things.

And, you see, Connolly is obsessed with loan problems, like every cabinet officer is.

And Schultz will work, you know.

He's a great guy.

He'll work in a very good way.

Professional way.

He'll attract all the people in our place.

All he knows.

You just tell Schultz he's got my toast.

And that I understand totally what's in front of him.

And we're going to go.

You and Irvin ought to sit down.

Let's see how we can chisel it down.

But I agree totally with it.

And I'm prepared to do it.

Nothing off the bench until after rush hour.

and I'm prepared to squeeze that provider in him.

I sure will.

Well, we might get lucky if we might just... HR1, John says there is no chance that it's gonna come out.

So, I mean, I'm not sure if that's the...

And it's not going to be in my next budget in any event.

It's not going to be included if it doesn't come out.

And I mean not in it, period.

I'm through with the cost.

And as far as the relevant sharing, there may be a chance that we may find it if we bring it.

John, you have to get McGregor in on the scheme to try to cut it.

I mean, there's a torpedo like revenue sharing, too.

Let's get it screwed up.

We want revenue sharing screwed up.

Both special and... Because of budget reasons.

Now, Social Security is the tough one.

You're likely to separate that out.

And my view is that it should be...

I mean, it is not... That's what I decided earlier.

He said, well, he's probably right, too.

I mean, if we followed the theory that if we didn't get the economy positioned right by his name, then we couldn't do it.

Just like in 60, it wasn't positioned until

too late, until October, November.

The theory then was it had to be done by April, we would have gotten all right.

But it wasn't.

At this time, it is.

And the point is, we can't un-position it now, between now and the election.

It doesn't have to be un-positioned.

If it weren't in position now, you couldn't get it.

It is in position now, you can't get it out.

And all of the, it's just like the California letter, it's just bubbling over with the, you know,

They're making the point that they have predicted things would be moving up.

They've moved up much more substantially than they expected.

The California economy, housing starts, you know, all the young people are excited.

The unemployment is down.

Even though the unemployment rate is up and the employment base is way up, every analysis says it's going to be a super boom.

Not a super boom, a solid boom, which I hope it will be.

But the market at the moment seems to reflect it.

The market keeps itching itself up.

The war thing was knocking down .

And it dropped a couple points one day, back a couple and a half.

Now, what is it, 30-month time?

40-month time.

What we want it to do is keep on doing just what it is.

Pick up a point or two every week.

Not too long.

We want it to go over 1,000 or more than that.

It's only got 30 points together.

Maybe that's too soon.

I see the summer doesn't prove much.

I think you'd like to get it to break the thousand in July before the summer goes into June.

And then hang in at a thousand.

A thousand bottles have a magical effect, really, on decisions by people around the country.

Those decisions, according to all these

are already made, no insider reports and everything, are already made.

And it's not focused on, I get back this little blind trust, and the guy sent me back a quarterly report, and he has his analysis thing, and they send all their customers, and they said the same thing.

All the indicators are solid.

My holdings went up 17% since January 1st, the first quarter.

A 17% gain the first quarter, pretty damn good.

it's a bunch of dollars, but it's, if money did that sort of thing, they'd take it out of their hands.

You know what happened then?

You could buy more yachts and attractives and television sets to do cars.

Trips to Europe and to Asia, to Europe.

Well, they do the things that they've been holding off to decide.

Another thing, the spring finally comes.

The spring comes.

You had good retail sales of the,

Your sales were good.

And, of course, Schultz is ecstatic because Arthur cranked his money supply up.

And Schultz, the explanation to him, he was all on money supply.

Schultz is going to do an excellent job as Secretary of the Secretary.

He'll be a great company to work with.

He knows more about it than Congress.

about the right thing to do.

It's a blow to think about, but I'll tell you, when you get past the first blow, I think it's a...

It's better.

It's a plus.

It's a better, because it'll be a particular, you know, the only thing, if we have a conflict politically.

Yeah.

That's got to be solved.

I think it is.

Just say, John, that it would be a terrible blow to the confidence of the country, the confidence of the economy, and so forth.

If you were out there, if you would say, I personally...

The president will have my support and my wife's support, and some of you might have my personal support.

And also, he's got to figure the reason.

Did you go into that at all, what you say?

No, that's what I got to do.

Did you go call him and say, John, why don't you tell him not to visit us?

That I have a fourth home.

Well, I'm trying to listen.

I said there was a big move coming.

I won't let it happen.

Yeah, first thing in the morning.

That'll tie better to John if you want to see him as soon as you can.

If you have a diversity in the morning, he could come in.

He could go over and catch rockets.

Maybe 10.

Maybe 10 is better.

And then you and John.

Or actually that John.

Go right here.

Come on.

We'll go up tonight.

All right, then you and John go up and say your thing tomorrow.

Good.

It's only 10 o'clock tomorrow.

Fair enough?

Oh, well, let me ask you a couple of questions.

No.

Well, who's leaving?

A couple of people.

a few minutes to receive your report of the panel on non-public education.

No, I won't.

No.

That's Walz.

I've done that.

Question.

Well, do you want to get a story?

We built the thing that we were going to receive that report and move on to the thing that you did.

All right.

I'll receive it.

But you'll have to take a few minutes.

Oh, I'll take a half hour.

Sure.

I'll bring it in.

Half an hour.

Say 20 minutes and we'll get out and act on it.

The other one, they were pushing the guard on him.

The guard, he said, I was learning he wasn't the 36th police officer.

The answer is no.

No, no, no.

Now, listen, on that one, I will not do it.

I will not do it.

I mean, it isn't going to work well.

I have done it a hundred, about 25 times on guard.

I told John this.

I've done this a number of times.

The other one is a one-minute thing bringing in a new congressman.

Oh, sure.

Carlson.

Yeah.

this is a good test of my things

You can't use the big gun every time.

I've done the goddamn Washington police and the mayor time and time and again, and we get nothing out of it.

Now, this one let John go.

John is going to meet with those clowns and then go out and breathe.

I guess John pushed it hard, is that it?

I hate to let him down.

Only because he mentioned me to death, really.

Oh, I know that, I know that, but

Doesn't he see the other side of the mouth?

You see my heart?

Yeah.

Jesus Christ, I...

If you go to the Catholic school, there's a better national story.

Well, crime is a good story, but can't we...

If it's a D.C. crime, people don't care.

His argument is if you do it, that's the only way to get a national story.

When it happens, it's a D.C. crime.

When?

Anyway.

Yeah, that was an actual story, not the D.C. crime.

That was a hand on the demonstrator.

Did he?

Did he go all right?

Yeah.

Now he ought to go out and make a story.

Let him do it.

I just don't want to do it.

Okay.