Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 332 › Conversation 332-035

Nixon, Haldeman & Ziegler on Vietnam War and US-Soviet relations

Tuesday, April 25, 1972 · 10:50 AM–12:50 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Ziegler, Ronald L.; Sanchez, Manolo; [Unknown person(s)]; White House operator; Kissinger, Henry A.; Andrews, John K., Jr.Conversation332-035 on Tape 332 (tape position 03:08:57–04:55:31)StartTuesday, April 25, 1972 at 10:50 AMEndTuesday, April 25, 1972 at 12:50 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 332-035 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with H.R. Haldeman, Ronald Ziegler, and Henry Kissinger to strategize for an upcoming televised address regarding the Vietnam War and secret diplomatic breakthroughs. They discussed the administration's plan to maintain a hard-line stance on the continued bombing of North Vietnam while emphasizing a commitment to peace through secret channels with the Soviet Union. A primary goal of the meeting was to coordinate the messaging to keep administration supporters mobilized, confuse political opponents, and discredit media critics who were skeptical of the administration's foreign policy maneuvers.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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3:09:21...will not preserve or receive the respect which is essential for the United States to play the great role we are destined to play in helping to build a new structure of peace in the world for generations to come.
3:09:28And, uh, hey...
3:09:41another little tape that's for me to turn on.
3:09:50Thank you.
3:09:51Mr. Rose.
3:09:57Can I go to the mic?
3:10:23And after all, I was not, I was not traveling in the United States.
3:10:31I was in Vietnam.
3:10:37I was in Virginia.
3:10:40I was in Vietnam.
3:10:46I was in Vietnam.
3:10:54We sent 500, over a half a million men to Vietnam rather than Iraq.
3:11:00I have been bringing that home to Vietnam.
3:11:06And if you go in where it says the argument goes like this, or the case goes like this, or something like that, it doesn't matter.
3:11:24Put it in about like that.
3:11:27Okay.
3:11:27There you go.
3:11:28You got another roll banger?
3:11:37Yes.
3:11:38You think so?
3:11:40Yes, sir.
3:11:46You got orders?
3:11:48Sure.
3:11:56I don't know.
3:11:56I don't know.
3:12:48Where do you think he was?
3:13:03No, I'm cold.
3:13:03I tell everybody I'm cold.
3:13:06Mr. President, I don't think you're going to find out.
3:13:12You shouldn't.
3:13:14I don't.
3:13:15The moment that I tried to leave Sonnenfeld.
3:13:21Yeah.
3:13:22He wasn't there.
3:13:23And I didn't even press him.
3:13:25That's where I am.
3:13:26Yes, sir.
3:13:28I didn't know about the first one.
3:13:31That's fine.
3:13:32Is that coffee or constant?
3:13:34Coffee.
3:13:37That's fine.
3:13:37No, no, no, no, whatever you've got.
3:13:39Fine, fine, fine.
3:13:40I'll have constant there.
3:13:45Well, I must say, it is, of course, very dramatic in China, but it is, in a way, damn near.
3:13:53What do you think?
3:13:54In many ways.
3:13:57I mean, it's so, we're trying to, we're trying to, it's totally unexpected.
3:14:01This might be true.
3:14:02I think a lot of people probably thought he was in Paris or something, or I'm not sure.
3:14:06No, I don't think anybody thinks he was anywhere.
3:14:09I can't believe that, but I think it's true.
3:14:12I can tell you, nobody's even suspected that.
3:14:15I didn't take a call.
3:14:17I went just one hundredth of a ground.
3:14:22I went so far below ground.
3:14:27I don't think anyone has any feeling other than the fact that you're going to go to level three.
3:14:33Yes, sir.
3:14:33Two quick things at the end.
3:14:37Well, first of all, I'll be asking you today, now that you're back, as I've been, Jerry's been asked every day, and I was asked last week, have you made a decision as to when, how, and what you will say before May the 1st?
3:14:50Yes.
3:14:51And aren't you saying yes?
3:14:52Yes, I made it over the weekend.
3:14:53Our president made a decision over the weekend that he will announce it before May 1st.
3:14:57Why don't we say you made it?
3:14:59Let me suggest it.
3:15:00When you're writing this story, I know we decided not to, but I'd like you to rephrase it and consider it from now on.
3:15:07Whether you don't want to say, yes, he has decided, and he will be making that announcement tomorrow evening, I think we might as well.
3:15:16Well, you put a battleground situation is what I really wanted to retain.
3:15:20I don't know that you can, but I don't think you can.
3:15:24And it's going to go back and forth anyway, and it doesn't make all that much sense.
3:15:27I don't think it matters.
3:15:29But I don't, there's a lot of advantage to it in getting today's, there's going to be confusion on today's story.
3:15:36We have just went round and round studying on the briefing stuff, and as you think about it, all the things you raised are exactly the things that, you know, you see there as you start thinking of the questions the guys are going to ask you and how you answer them.
3:15:51We want to keep people, we want to keep our people positive.
3:15:55We want to keep the opposition confused.
3:15:58Yes, they are.
3:15:58I think the president will make the...
3:16:02I don't have the time set yet.
3:16:03Yeah, he will make an announcement tomorrow on television.
3:16:05Should I say announcement or address or statement?
3:16:08No, I just said he will make an announcement.
3:16:10He will make a statement.
3:16:12He will make a statement tomorrow.
3:16:14No, just say, no, no, that he will make a, the President will address the nation on the general situation, on that and the general situation.
3:16:23That would be the story.
3:16:27And the general situation.
3:16:30So that has the advantage of tying Henry's thing to Vietnam right away.
3:16:37And one of the things we're concerned about is just what you are.
3:16:41Well, you have the problem, but from today until 7.30 tonight,
3:16:46of that appearance being that Vine went off to save the summit rather than that he went off to do something like track hunting.
3:16:54The way I would propose to do it is to walk out there and make a statement about Henry's trip to the summit.
3:17:01And then go on and say, my gentlemen, I know you've been asking me over the last few days, has he decided when to do it?
3:17:05Right now, he made the decision over the weekend.
3:17:09He will address the nation by television tomorrow.
3:17:13He will make a television report to the nation tomorrow on that announcement, on that decision, and on the general situation in Vietnam.
3:17:23I think that gets us in, that screws us up this afternoon.
3:17:27Could I say, could I say this?
3:17:28We've got our Hawks, Goldwater, and four or five others are really cutting loose this afternoon.
3:17:34I said we go ahead.
3:17:35I think that's good.
3:17:37We've got everybody asking, what are they asking?
3:17:39They do.
3:17:40They're hitting the Democrats.
3:17:41Right.
3:17:42And they're hitting this man of bin.
3:17:44You know about this letter that a man of bin wrote to the Congress?
3:17:49And they're jumping on that, which that doesn't gain good balance for us.
3:17:53She just made a ghastly propaganda error, don't you think so?
3:17:59All the congressmen are probably kissing her ass just the other way.
3:18:02Just the other way.
3:18:03Are you sure?
3:18:03Oh, yeah.
3:18:04We put it to the Congress from yesterday.
3:18:07We moved the Congress from yesterday.
3:18:08Well, we just said that the White House was following on her part to inject itself into our system.
3:18:14The congressmen and senators know full well who they're elected to be responsible to.
3:18:19And that's the American people, not the enemy.
3:18:22Not the communist enemy.
3:18:24All we do is the communist enemy.
3:18:26Goddamn it.
3:18:27We got our congressman on this yesterday, too, Bob Tapp.
3:18:34Some of the guys on that.
3:18:38But what about the Democrats, though?
3:18:40Are they remaining silent again?
3:18:42And that's what we're hitting on today.
3:18:47Yeah.
3:18:48Why don't we call upon them to repudiate the...
3:18:53I think you ought to go back to Ohio.
3:18:57We call upon the members of the Congress
3:19:03to refute this attempt on the part of the communist enemy to influence the Congress of the United States.
3:19:15Put that right to us.
3:19:19Okay, we've got that one moving.
3:19:21But I didn't say anything in the paper about today.
3:19:23Oh, yeah.
3:19:25Out of the Times and the Post.
3:19:27Yeah, it was.
3:19:29What'd they say?
3:19:31I'm not interested in the goddamn news, I don't understand.
3:19:36White House, the White House, NBC and CBS both noted the sharp White House reaction.
3:19:46Steve, there's all the bombing.
3:19:49Brian hit a fire over there.
3:19:50You and the I-Leaks, how's Fox responding to the sound and fury of these reports?
3:19:56Why don't we say that the president called, huh?
3:19:59The president.
3:20:01Don't you think so?
3:20:04Are you calling?
3:20:05This is the President's view that every Democrat or Republican, whatever you may think about the war, should fatly repudiate this blatant attack by the Communist enemy
3:20:34to interfere in our, in the conduct of our, of our affairs.
3:20:39But go ahead.
3:20:39Listen to these folks.
3:20:40Lutzer, she was treating Congress like a monkey at the end of her string.
3:20:44Lutzer?
3:20:44Charlie Lutzer.
3:20:45For old Charles.
3:20:46Representative.
3:20:47Oh, right to that.
3:20:48Be sure he's at the affair tonight then.
3:20:52Sorry, one minute.
3:20:53I'm told, I'm told they saw Alex.
3:20:54Now wait, wait, wait, wait.
3:20:56What's that?
3:20:56Wait, wait.
3:20:57Where is he doing that?
3:20:58I don't know.
3:20:59Yeah, I know.
3:21:05Ted knew us because they went to round table 20 where he added we knew you guys could qualify for a greater mentality than we might consider.
3:21:14Followed by a bill server who made those statements yesterday.
3:21:18He'll understand.
3:21:21And Wayne Hayes, if she sends me a letter explaining the wastebasket, it's outrageous that this woman tries to tell me to go ahead and do it.
3:21:28Alex said the inability of bad men to comprehend the self-respect of members of the Congress.
3:21:32Also, I'll like Wayne Hayes.
3:21:34I'll understand.
3:21:35There are several of them.
3:21:37You see what I mean?
3:21:40Why didn't you want to do it?
3:21:42Well, leave it to them.
3:21:42They don't want to do it.
3:21:43Sorry.
3:21:44They don't want to do it.
3:21:45Don't have it.
3:21:45Okay.
3:21:45But tell me, if McGregor can hand it, I can hand it a few more days to him.
3:21:51They had, that's Dr. McGregor, you see, we had 110 because they had a separate E-shaped table and I can't .
3:21:56Okay, it's Dr. McGregor, I'll give you a second.
3:22:04Bob Taft, this is a tissue of lies and propaganda that catalyzed the U.S. and the United Front.
3:22:07The view of such a communication as this is hardly believable.
3:22:11He called on Democratic aspirants Kennedy and GOP candidates to denounce him.
3:22:18They moved on that one.
3:22:19Before you go, though, I get the feel of this.
3:22:21I'll go tomorrow night.
3:22:22I'm hoping to keep it until 10 o'clock.
3:22:24I'm hoping to keep it until 10, but I've got a band of people who are trying to put stuff in it, but I'm going to keep it very short.
3:22:39And we're just going to be a damn hard-line statement.
3:22:43We're not going to...
3:22:44I mean, after all, the Hawks-Dubs sentiment is a mild body of inquiry, and I'm glad it's a little warm up for some coverage.
3:22:52But that's very unusual at this point in time to have that.
3:22:55So we're going to play to the Hawks, Bob.
3:22:57I'm not going to play to the Dubs.
3:22:59Do you understand?
3:23:00Sure.
3:23:00Well, I agree.
3:23:01What are you convinced?
3:23:01And what about the press people?
3:23:02Aren't they... What do you... How do you think they're going to react to this announcement?
3:23:05They're going to...
3:23:06I think it would be next, I think it would be Sopranos, it would be some... Blacker guy.
3:23:12But they got away a guy.
3:23:13So I agree, if you want a certain sense of satisfaction, even if Washington only had a guard on his mind, you just toss it up.
3:23:20You know, if you screwed it up, you screwed it up.
3:23:22So it's not a risk to the Soviet Union.
3:23:24It's not a risk to the Soviet Union.
3:23:26And our relationship with the Soviet Union is too bad that you got next started.
3:23:32I'm so glad of it.
3:23:34May I say, Mr. President, instead of saying over the weekend that you made the decision, as to what you say tomorrow night, why I can't date it?
3:23:43Because Warren yesterday- Just say I made the decision while I can't date it.
3:23:50Warren yesterday did say that you had decided .
3:23:52Yes, I made the decision.
3:23:54No, no, no, I would say that he made the decision and can't date it after Dr. Kissinger had a meeting with, after Dr. Kissinger, after he got a report from Dr. Kissinger.
3:24:04We made it last night, yesterday afternoon.
3:24:09Yes, sir.
3:24:22You're not worried about being locked in tomorrow night?
3:24:28Because that's, it's still a disadvantage.
3:24:30Well, so you have a hell of an advantage.
3:24:32What the hell is your... You have no objection to being consulted.
3:24:36You have to read your statement.
3:24:38You have rights.
3:24:40Could I suggest this?
3:24:41I'm going to change the statement.
3:24:44And the Russians always change theirs.
3:24:46Do you have it with you?
3:24:47I do not have a seat.
3:24:48All right.
3:24:52Don't say chairman of the Seoul Circle.
3:24:56Just say Chairman Brezhnev and Foreign Minister Gromyko.
3:25:00You understand?
3:25:01He's got the chairman of the Soviet Communist Party, of the CSPU, etc., etc., etc.
3:25:06You just do that, and don't worry about what they say.
3:25:08Just read it that way.
3:25:10With Chairman Brezhnev and Foreign Minister Gromyko.
3:25:12Fair enough?
3:25:13And he'll die.
3:25:15They always do it that way.
3:25:17It's simple.
3:25:21Well, I think it's interesting that the, uh, all of our people, when we eat, all of our people, I only talked to two people, which was Colson, Hagerty, and Price Frye.
3:25:33Oh, sure.
3:25:34And Colson's immediate concern was that he had launched all these guys on the spot at night.
3:25:39And I kept saying, I told him that we're in good shape with the tough guys.
3:25:44And Chuck said, well, how are we going to go back to the table after we went to Moscow?
3:25:51And they won't know this afternoon that we're going back to the table.
3:25:54All of those, and we went to Moscow, had some obscurity about Vietnam.
3:26:01The key thing is the line, and he said, and both, pardon me, part both of them, is we will continue bombing North Vietnam
3:26:12As long as South Vietnamese communist invaders are killing Americans, then South Vietnamese, then South Vietnamese.
3:26:22Well, that's my line.
3:26:22I said that ancient's a whole line.
3:26:24If you can get that said, then there's a great thing.
3:26:29I'd say the same thing.
3:26:30But the fact is also that...
3:26:31I gave you that fact.
3:26:33I know that.
3:26:34I made it... No, Al would say it.
3:26:36I used your...
3:26:38The other point is the actual fact, given another day or so, the fact that the moment does seem a little satisfying, but the concern is this afternoon, this evening's news.
3:26:55But I think, incidentally, on that score, let's get up at the 5 o'clock briefing that we are going to continue the bombing in North Vietnam.
3:27:05Don't wait for me to say it.
3:27:08Put it down.
3:27:09Put it down.
3:27:09They are to follow at 5.30.
3:27:11We will continue to bomb military targets in North Vietnam.
3:27:22Exactly this way, as long as communist invaders, as the communist invaders are killing South Vietnamese, you've got to put them first because they're killing more of them, and Americans in South Vietnam.
3:27:47You got that now?
3:27:48That's the phrase.
3:27:48That's what I'm going to say the following night.
3:27:51It's got to be said very, very hard.
3:27:53You can't say that the president is going to say that the following night.
3:27:57You know what I mean?
3:27:58That's the president's position.
3:28:00And they should know it.
3:28:06On the other hand, I'm sure McGregor and Coulson were smart enough to see that this is a good ploy in terms of we handle it right in terms of just accusing the shit out of people.
3:28:18Or maybe they don't see it completely.
3:28:20Because it's hard for Henry to see it.
3:28:24I mean, for many to see it.
3:28:25I'm not sure it is a good ploy to see it.
3:28:35They want them, especially once you get, once you get the whole thing going.
3:28:40And then, of course, if you... Well, I had a quite a set of two with Henry.
3:28:46Oh, seven.
3:28:49Speaking of my life.
3:28:56You know, I'm bored, Danny.
3:29:05like November 3rd or anything of that sort.
3:29:06Let me say, the length of it is going to be the length of November 3rd or of Cambodia.
3:29:12And Baobab's got to have a tough record.
3:29:15We've got to realize that the record was what made both of those things.
3:29:18Can you bring me the, like, the back of another?
3:29:21Yes, sir.
3:29:22You got any?
3:29:23Yes, I have.
3:29:25You see what I mean?
3:29:27Yeah.
3:29:29I'm going to do it.
3:29:29It's going to be done in a different way.
3:29:31It's not emotional.
3:29:32But it's going to be so goddamn hard about...
3:29:39I don't think this really is a break from that.
3:29:49I don't know.
3:29:49We all think something's breaking.
3:29:54Well, I don't think it's a big break.
3:29:56I don't think it's, you know, a strong, earth-shaking event.
3:29:59I just think it was a student that caught on air.
3:30:02And we'll work hard at it.
3:30:06See what I mean?
3:30:07What did she say?
3:30:07I haven't read the letter, but she apparently plays for the peace proposal.
3:30:26It's time for the hard line.
3:30:34I'm not going to tell any of them, not just you or anybody else, how I'm going to do this.
3:30:46I think it's one that I'm going to do it my own way.
3:31:03You know what I mean?
3:31:04My gut reaction is right here now, and I thought it through, and I'm very calm about the whole thing, but I just feel that now we can't get it down.
3:31:13first down with the goblins, like the sentence I just gave you, I wrote last night in the middle of the night, but it puts it goddamn well, doesn't it?
3:31:21It puts it much better than they had it in their phrase, the bombing of North Vietnam, and we'll have to continue until there is the reduction of the violence in South Vietnam.
3:31:32Remember?
3:31:33You see, Bob, that does not sing.
3:31:36But you say, we will continue to bomb military targets in North Vietnam?
3:31:42until the communist invaders quit killing South Vietnamese and Americans in South Vietnam.
3:31:50Period.
3:31:51Now that puts it goddamn bloody, sums it up, and it's quotable.
3:31:56You agree with me?
3:31:57Sure.
3:31:57And it's clear.
3:31:58That's understood.
3:31:59The violence is reduced.
3:32:00Well, what the hell does that mean, shit?
3:32:02Absolutely.
3:32:02Johnson or anything.
3:32:10You already met with them, so I guess perhaps this is not necessary.
3:32:15I just want you to realize the vital importance of your kicking them in the ass and following up, and I mean the Hague bunch, but also using all of our big guns now.
3:32:30I don't know.
3:32:35I'm getting something out every day, Bob, and getting the Congress to get resolutions passed and getting a march.
3:32:42And you can't have ads, and maybe that doesn't make any difference, but having our sons of bitches call that that works on the television and so forth.
3:32:50I want an all-out, massive offensive.
3:32:53Point two.
3:32:56I think I will have you phoning for our, phoning for the purpose of using it, because we're not, we're sure the goddamn other Gallup and Harris won't be that fast.
3:33:05I think you should pull immediately after the speech tomorrow night.
3:33:09Now, let me say I'm not interested in the trial piece.
3:33:12Don't put that in, Bob.
3:33:14I'm not interested in that at this point.
3:33:16It's irrelevant.
3:33:17And I'm not interested in approval, disapproval.
3:33:20I don't think that's essential at this point.
3:33:22In other words, that'll go up and down depending on if you're reading on the speech.
3:33:26But I think what we need to hear the speech, but
3:33:30Do you approve?
3:33:31And then load the question so that it isn't too loaded.
3:33:35Do you favor the bombing of North Vietnam?
3:33:37You see, it sort of seems like it's like Gallup's question.
3:33:39And do you favor the president's policy of withdrawing forces, of refusing, of continuing the bombing until they stop the fighting or something like that, of continuing the bombing of North Vietnam until they stop?
3:33:57Yeah, fine.
3:33:59The president said, and use that term now, do you agree or disagree?
3:34:05See my point?
3:34:06Yeah.
3:34:07And then you've got a good point.
3:34:07Now I think this is a good thing to get out.
3:34:09You can put anything else in if you want, but I keep the poll short and I hit it right after the speech.
3:34:18If it comes out good, put it out.
3:34:21If it doesn't come out good, flush it.
3:34:23Do you understand?
3:34:24Yeah, I think it's a good idea.
3:34:27You understand, this is using a poll for our purpose rather than kicking ourselves in the ass all the time by polling, well, we went down two points this week, or we went up two points last week, or we went down four points.
3:34:43You see what I mean?
3:34:44We're too poll-packy around here.
3:34:46But we're not really, we haven't been that bad.
3:34:50But there is a tendency to watch for every poll.
3:34:52What's Gallup going to show this week?
3:34:54What's Harris going to show this week?
3:34:56What's Sinlinger going to show this week?
3:34:59Do you understand?
3:35:03I think, I think, oh, I know we have, but you know, we have it later, but I think on this one, we can get a good balance.
3:35:09Since Gallup called, I think we'll do a little better afterwards than before.
3:35:15I also think you should go, do you approve of the president going to the Moscow for a summit?
3:35:24Well, we don't know that it will be high.
3:35:28And no, I would say, but I voted a little the other way.
3:35:34And the view of the fact will be that the North Vietnamese are, come on in.
3:35:41My word is that it wasn't a brief one.
3:35:45Oh, that's all right.
3:36:06He just didn't want to talk.
3:36:07Oh, listen, listen, for Christ's sakes.
3:36:10That's perfectly all right.
3:36:12That's perfectly all right.
3:36:143 o'clock, all we care about is the television.
3:36:18At 3 o'clock, you go out and start with that one.
3:36:23And if they ask you to be about at noon, well, gentlemen, I wouldn't have to.
3:36:27I'll be briefing you later in the day on that subject.
3:36:29I'll cover that in the afternoon briefing.
3:36:32I'll cover that in the afternoon briefing.
3:36:33Okay, fine.
3:36:36But they know goddamn well I've got to do this.
3:36:46I'm not going to do it anyway.
3:36:51That would be a hell of a tough speech.
3:37:04But also...
3:37:14and that is to take every goddamn graph and show it to Henry, Christ, you know, everybody, you know, show it to Darwin, and so forth.
3:37:25He doesn't tell me he does, but he does do this too much.
3:37:30And you can't do this, this kind of thing has got to be done.
3:37:33Henry's got to see the final graph, you know.
3:37:37But you see, by the time you see this, you know, Sapphire brings him over to you to look for him.
3:37:42Ziegler, he's a great guy, he's a great believer in shopping everything around to be sure that everybody, because he believes that consensus can make a good idea.
3:37:52If you do sometimes, let me tell you one thing about consensus.
3:37:55Every time you go over consensus too much, you take some zing out of it, speak in or out of it, take some zing out of it, it comes down, down and down.
3:38:04Speeches by committees aren't worth a shit.
3:38:11Well, Henry won on all points, didn't he?
3:38:13He was aggressive, but I was solid on him.
3:38:17But I think, I suppose there's something, there's something that we won't decide, you know what I mean?
3:38:22But I do think this, we won half-time.
3:38:24He's going to be aggressive, and then he's going to shut up.
3:38:29Well, and of course he did.
3:38:32It's damn important that you do it for him if he wants you back, too.
3:38:35Does he know when?
3:38:36No.
3:38:37There's a problem on that, but now I've gotten the rest of it out.
3:38:41He's got something.
3:38:44actors coming in for the weekend.
3:38:48Bring her to Florida.
3:38:48So either it's going to bring her to Florida or go down with you on Wednesday night and come back up Friday afternoon.
3:38:58That would be our other plan.
3:39:00They bring the goddamn actors to Florida.
3:39:01There's a wonderful place.
3:39:02Take her all the little Jew places over on the strip.
3:39:05Really.
3:39:05The Fontainebleau is better than any goddamn place in Washington.
3:39:09That's it.
3:39:10There are people that cheer him when he walks in.
3:39:11They'll want his autograph.
3:39:13on the basis that I was sort of the president watching the service a little in public.
3:39:17Well, I don't know what's happening in service better in public than in New York.
3:39:23I don't know.
3:39:26I think we'll just say he's got to go down.
3:39:28Yeah.
3:39:28And I think he does have to go down.
3:39:31I want to go down immediately, actually speaking.
3:39:33I don't want any porting around.
3:39:35I'm going to wait for a call.
3:39:37I don't want to get any airtime.
3:39:38I'm going to ask that.
3:39:38I'm not going to do it pretty bad.
3:39:41That's technically what I'm going to do.
3:39:44I'm not hard with it.
3:39:46It's a lot of fun.
3:39:54I bet it's a hard work, but I want to tell you, I bet it would be better for me.
3:40:00And I've given a lot of guidance on it.
3:40:01Well, there's a lot of good, good, good supplements.
3:40:05You don't need to know a lot of supplements.
3:40:10Well, there are a lot of technical points that you must be right on.
3:40:13Yeah, right.
3:40:14I'm not going to go into much of that.
3:40:17I don't want to overstate what he said.
3:40:23I don't care about other than being the best man.
3:40:32Yeah, I know you'd rather go over here.
3:40:33No, no, no, no.
3:40:34I'll go at 11.
3:40:35I may not be able to.
3:40:38The only problem with 10 may be the National Basketball Playoffs.
3:40:44Oh, I don't know.
3:40:46Don't fight Saturday night.
3:40:47I don't want to fight that.
3:40:50Oh, shit.
3:40:50Go at 9 in the middle of the movie.
3:40:52Oh, can I do that?
3:40:53This is big enough.
3:40:54I like 9 the best myself.
3:40:56I think that's a more, frankly, just a better sounding time.
3:41:00Yeah, it is.
3:41:02And it's not bad for the West Coast.
3:41:04It's okay.
3:41:04It's not as good as Jan Good's.
3:41:06It's okay.
3:41:07But anything before 9 is no good for the West Coast.
3:41:13And they might be safe.
3:41:14This is an apartment house.
3:41:16We're going to go at 9 o'clock.
3:41:18And that's what they're up to.
3:41:19That's right.
3:41:22We're going to speed up.
3:41:23Let's see how it goes.
3:41:25They've done it before.
3:41:26Well, how do you do it?
3:41:27It wouldn't bother me a bit because if you've ever watched a movie on television, it's interrupted the commercials so much that an interruption, it isn't as if you were sitting watching a movie in a theater and they interrupted it.
3:41:40TV movies are interrupted all the time.
3:41:44Especially on the hour they go through seven commercials on the 9 o'clock.
3:41:50They may not have the basketball either.
3:41:52I don't know.
3:41:53I don't have a schedule, so I've got to find that out today.
3:41:58Run good in the numbers for 10 o'clock and let them tell us what the problem is.
3:42:05I think it is.
3:42:08Interrupt anything for 10 o'clock.
3:42:10I'd rather do that.
3:42:12We get the best Q&A and audience.
3:42:19Overall, the number of people available, at least the largest one, this time of year.
3:42:34He did do it to find out.
3:42:35He called Sonnenfeld to ask you a question.
3:42:39All right.
3:42:40Whatever I meant, he was clever to interpret it correctly.
3:42:41He placed it in front of Sonnenfeld, and they said Mr. Sonnenfeld is a campaign to respect history, which is the line they're using.
3:42:50Um, Roger's got a long history of never taking son of a boat from the end of the day, but he does anything that's saying son of a boat.
3:42:59It's about similar.
3:42:59So we would see if son of a boat got to the end, which he obviously didn't.
3:43:03He'd be writing a query that he'd read, but he wouldn't.
3:43:07Son of a boat wouldn't go with it to Paris, because he has nothing to do with it to Paris, yeah.
3:43:12He only ever made a good attempt.
3:43:17I knew this would be the liberal who would say, the summit, risk the summit, risk the talk, and they say you've been busy, and he's doing a good job of setting it all aside, and now he's doing it out.
3:43:42Right here.
3:43:43Overreaction.
3:43:44Hot pepper.
3:43:46I hope that can be knocked down.
3:43:49Nobody has to do that.
3:43:53What they're using is a dirt.
3:43:57You can feel it.
3:43:58It's so strange, which is bad for us.
3:44:04We don't care if Mr. Henson risks his own reelection.
3:44:07We need to care if he resists it.
3:44:10Everything you do risks you, really, because you're more reliable.
3:44:27That's the problem with this.
3:44:32Well, you've got Colson and the rest, it's all jammed up, and they're gonna follow up for the rest of the week on the positive news and breaking the network and just putting the shit on the people.
3:44:43Let's start attacking the media.
3:44:45I think we've got to start attacking the media.
3:44:48I think we should watch carefully how they handle the speech and make another terrible so long as they get after their speech, you know what I mean?
3:45:00An attack on them should be made
3:45:05They don't do that.
3:45:07Or if they don't do that, then that's what I would have to do.
3:45:20Pack the networks if it's working.
3:45:22Oh, how's that?
3:45:24Good, no, we better listen on the instant analysis.
3:45:25We gotta talk about the news and the commentary.
3:45:28You'll realize tonight, Joe, we'll have a leak out of that goddamn Vietnam story.
3:45:31I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
3:45:32That was a trick.
3:45:33Not on the network, but I can't go on.
3:45:34Because tomorrow night we have this fake machine.
3:45:41I won't.
3:45:42See, I can't wait to try something new.
3:45:48There's a lot for them to untangle here.
3:46:06Well, first, the summit is on.
3:46:08That would knock the shit out of the Post.
3:46:11And when I say the Post, Bob, that's about 75% of our fucking critics.
3:46:17It really is.
3:46:18That represents the views of these separate, weak fascists who, now, first, there are sworn political enemies, but also... Don't you agree?
3:46:33It really kicks down, doesn't it?
3:46:36Oh, I want some vicious calls made to the Post.
3:46:38You understand?
3:46:40I want them now to really follow this through.
3:46:43Hey, Graham should get somebody at that early in the call and say, OK, I think in all fairness, you ought to have an editorial.
3:46:50You understand?
3:46:51Break them.
3:46:52There's no tricks to break them anyway.
3:46:54The editor of the Post should be called and try to get some congressman or senator or so forth.
3:47:00Start playing the tough game.
3:48:06The danger, for instance, is that the Goldwater
3:48:33We didn't program it right.
3:48:35The order's going to make a very tough speech in 70 minutes on the floor.
3:48:39If, as he's walking onto the floor, someone hands him a wiretaper saying, Kissinger spent the weekend in Moscow.
3:48:45The order is likely to say, oh, shit, fuck it, throw the speech away and walk off.
3:48:51Goldrider must be told, incidentally, before his speech that we are continuing the bombing relentlessly of North Vietnam.
3:49:06The President has flatly rejected North Vietnam's demand that we discontinue the bombing.
3:49:16The President says they sold us that package in 1968.
3:49:20We're not going to buy it again.
3:49:38You got the words?
3:49:39That's in my speech for tomorrow night.
3:49:44What do you guys hear?
3:49:45Tell them if you say that.
3:49:52I don't think we'll bother talking, provided we're still talking.
3:49:58Agreed.
3:49:59I think that's right.
3:49:59I don't know.
3:50:00Colson and I are very strongly about that.
3:50:03At least you get the middle types like the only star and others.
3:50:06I don't have to talk to you about shit, but nevertheless, you've got to get some people to do what they are willing to do.
3:50:19You can do that by talking.
3:50:27I'll do it in a second.
3:50:28I know, but you're still following the dog, aren't you?
3:50:31Oh, yeah, yeah.
3:50:31Well, it's already in parallel, yeah.
3:50:36Mm-hmm.
3:50:37Absolutely.
3:50:37Delay announcing the speech by the office 24 hours.
3:50:39I know he's in the country in that period of time.
3:50:43We'll get some bad news.
3:50:44Maybe that's a good way to go on, though, right?
3:50:46If he can make a good case, then it is.
3:50:50There will be bad news, but I don't care.
3:50:56So I'll be able to put a little better perspective on that.
3:50:57I don't know what everyone says.
3:50:58We're losing some guys.
3:50:59We're winning others.
3:51:01And it's always a patient one.
3:51:02But we believe, and it's always been amazing, we continue our hair support.
3:51:08We'll avoid any comments from Victor.
3:51:11I'm back.
3:51:11That's all he said.
3:51:14He said it.
3:51:14Wrong.
3:51:16Wrong.
3:51:16I'd be worried about the man I picked.
3:51:20You know what?
3:53:06What he said about Islam was that it was assumed that whether the Penelope helped strengthen things, it's currently a domestic position.
3:53:15Why does he look back to that position?
3:53:16Because of the war.
3:53:18Why does he look back to that position?
3:53:25Because of the war.
3:53:27Because of the war.
3:53:30Because of the war.
3:53:35I wouldn't vote for a date certain right now.
3:53:41At the right time, you know, you have to wait and wait and take heat.
3:53:52You can't get by on a hit.
3:53:53You just wait.
3:53:53See what I mean?
3:53:54And also, events overtake you.
3:53:55You know, maybe events may still overtake you.
3:53:58On the other hand, you've got your own chain of events.
3:54:02We've got some things going on, too.
3:54:05Mr. Kissinger's second trip and also his trip in May 2nd.
3:54:08In May 2nd, it's only six days off.
3:54:11Six days.
3:54:12And if that farts out, then you go on again and say, we've been there, we've been private, they've turned it down, I ordered the bomb in North Vietnam.
3:54:19And what if the copper was bent?
3:54:21Then you put it in front of the base.
3:54:27Then you put it in front of the base.
3:54:35I'm too sophisticated to have been in there.
3:54:47Really?
3:54:48Really?
3:54:49I'm damn dumber than if you are.
3:54:58Well, they all judge others by themselves.
3:55:00We're not all on the same people, frankly.
3:55:01And a lot of people aren't, y'all, but look at all our accomplishments.
3:55:05They lead that up.
3:55:06That's why I call it shifts.
3:55:11Yeah.
3:55:11I'm out of channel.
3:55:13Where are my speeches?
3:55:17It's the life of the people of the world.
3:55:28Billy Graham.
3:55:28Yep.
3:55:31I have another one.
3:55:44I'm setting up that.
3:55:49Yeah, David.
3:55:51I think he would have been discovered.
3:55:54Or there was a chance.
3:55:57No, no, he would have been hit.
3:55:59The fact that they know he's usually seen would have been a great question.
3:56:10But for us to sit up there and back down, it was the way it was.
3:56:21Yeah, except that he didn't have anything he needed to do later.
3:56:27He was done for us then.
3:56:28He changed for, I went to the ceremony virtually, a week or a couple of times with the captain.
3:56:37He posted it to graduation, so he had to appeal to graduation class to do that.
3:56:41And I might have it in September rather than in the office.
3:56:48over in the east room, I mean in that big dining room with the little refreshments.
3:56:54Actually, the plan on that was to do a thing that somebody could do for the best for her event or something.
3:57:07No matter who you are, that's the priority.
3:57:15have to kind of prepare a very short paragraph about the matter.
3:57:17I just might include that in my speech.
3:57:21What do you think?
3:57:25I wouldn't.
3:57:26No, you wouldn't.
3:57:27All right.
3:57:28I've got somebody else for it.
3:57:30This is all about others doing it hard, and I think you ought to speak.
3:57:33You should recognize this.
3:57:35And I want to make this speech short, too, so.
3:57:37And that's going to hit us.
3:57:42That's today's story.
3:57:43It's going to be gone by tomorrow night.
3:57:46My police is going to have handled yesterday a withdrawal of about a thousand.
3:57:51It's going to have a quiet return to the Paris talks.
3:57:54Second, we're going to continue with the bombing.
3:57:59And third, fourth, third, and fourth, crazy military situation.
3:58:02Now, Henry wants to stop there.
3:58:05I can't stop there.
3:58:07I've got to go on and say...
3:58:22I think you've got to keep talking.
3:58:38I've got to remind them again how I have sought peace.
3:58:39I'm going to tell them.
3:58:40Last night, for example, I did something with the mayor.
3:59:12I have traveled with the kids.
3:59:35They all did.
3:59:37It's failed in its efforts to win over the people of South Vietnam.
3:59:40General Abrams believes that the enemy will fail in its efforts to conquer South Vietnam, though not militarily.
3:59:44The enemy's last hope is to win in the Congress of the United States and among the people of the United States for victory.
3:59:49They cannot win among the people of South Vietnam or in a battle for the South Vietnam.
3:59:55The great question is how will you do that if you can respond in time?
4:00:02I understand the fear, frustration, and the implacable opposition that this one difficult order has caused among the loyal Americans.
4:00:09Their case for doing nothing to stop this new communist invasion of South Vietnam has been qualified to go something like this.
4:00:18Now, have we done enough?
4:00:18If the South Vietnamese can't defend their country without our help, let's get out.
4:00:23What the President should do is to order the evacuation of all American forces and let the Congress take over.
4:00:29After all, I was not the President of the United States, the son of the one African-American in Vietnam.
4:00:34I am the great man of Vietnam.
4:00:38What the critics fail to realize is that what is at stake is not just the future of the 17 million people of South Vietnam, but the future of peace in the world, and the future of the United States as a great nation, which will always use its power to keep the peace in the United States.
4:00:53But as a matter of fact, we did not start this war.
4:00:55We went to South Vietnam in order to help the people of South Vietnam defend themselves and support the revolution.
4:01:01The North Vietnamese could not have launched their deployment later without massive aid from the Soviet Union and the tanks and guns from the modern government.
4:01:11If one country, with the assistance of a major power, estates another and succeeds in conquering, other countries will be encouraged to do exactly the same thing in the face of Europe and other international major powers.
4:01:24If the Communists win in Vietnam, the risk of war in other parts of the world would be enormously increased.
4:01:30We aren't trying to conquer North Vietnam or any other Asian country.
4:01:34We want no territory.
4:01:35We seek no basis.
4:01:37We will offer the most generous peace terms, peace with honor for both sides, with self-denial, minority, and non-hate, respectively, that is intended.
4:01:45But we will not be the elite.
4:01:46We will not be the weak.
4:01:49We will never surrender.
4:01:51I do not say this as a matter of jihadistic national pride.
4:01:54But we must face up to it.
4:01:55Because if a foreign support of communist aggression fails in Vietnam, it will be destroyed elsewhere.
4:01:59If it succeeds there, it will be encouraged elsewhere.
4:02:02And the risk of war in other places in the world will be enormous and increased.
4:02:08That is why I say let us bring our men home to Vietnam.
4:02:11Let us end the war in Vietnam.
4:02:13But let us end it in a way that the younger brothers and sons of the brave men who fought in Vietnam will not be fighting in some other Vietnam sometime in the future.
4:02:21I have been reminded of a friend who craves a life in this election, that I was the winner of the election by ordering my heir and labor forces to resist this progression, that I would greatly increase my chance to win the election if I brought peace to Vietnam, whatever the price.
4:02:34I completely reject this kind of price.
4:02:36The cost of winning an election is too high, but the price is that America loses.
4:02:42No man who sits in this office can act in a way that weakens the presidency of the United States.
4:02:49The United States is the most powerful nation in the free world.
4:02:52We have made our mistakes in foreign policy.
4:02:54But through our eternal credit in this century, we have never fired a war.
4:02:58We have always used our power to defend peace and freedom, never to destroy it.
4:03:03If the United States leaves Vietnam, we will be humiliated.
4:03:07The power we have exerted for peace on so many occasions will be irreparable.
4:03:11Earlier this year, I traveled with the King on an historic journey with peace.
4:03:17Next month I shall travel to Moscow on what I hope will also be a journey.
4:03:22In the 18 countries I have visited as President, I have found great respect for the office of President of the United States.
4:03:26I have reasoned with the Vice President, Dr. Bush, in his report that I will find that same respect for him if he does not come.
4:03:34I do not know who will be in his office in the years ahead.
4:03:38That is a decision that you will know and you will make.
4:03:41But I know that future Presidents, whoever they are, will travel the nations abroad, on journeys as peace as I have.
4:03:48If the United States will easily have not humiliated the people,
4:03:51The President of the United States, whoever he is, will not deserve or receive the respect which is essential for the United States to play the great role we are destined to play in helping to build a new structure of peace for the world in the coming years.
4:04:15You see, I think that kind of rhetoric would be
4:04:19Also, bragging a little about being brave and fatty.
4:04:22It's been said, but let's go ahead and say it.
4:04:26Don't you agree?
4:04:29Yeah.
4:04:34And it's said in a low-key way.
4:04:36Yeah, that's it.
4:04:36It's not a trustee way or anything.
4:04:39It's not trustee.
4:04:40No.
4:04:40I just say I recognize and I understand it from this point on.
4:04:52The cost of winning an election is too high, and the price is that America loses.
4:04:57No man or citizen has sought to snag on a way that weakens the presidency of the United States.
4:05:03The United States is the most powerful nation in the free world.
4:05:06We have made our mistakes in foreign policy.
4:05:08But through our eternal credit in this century, we have never fired a war.
4:05:11We have always used our power to defend peace and freedom that we've destroyed.
4:05:16If the United States leaves, no.
4:05:19If the United States leaves Vietnam, we will be a power leader serving for peace on so many occasions.
4:05:24Earlier this year, I traveled to Phuket and destroyed China for peace.
4:05:31Next month, I shall travel to Moscow on what I hope will also be a journey for peace.
4:05:36In the 18 countries I have lived as President, I have found great respect for the office of President of the United States.
4:05:40I have reasoned with the President, based on the business report that I have done, and I have said with that mind that I do not cover the U.S.
4:05:49I do not cover the U.S. office of President of the United States.
4:05:52That is a decision that you do know that you will make.
4:05:55But I know that future Presidents, whoever they are, who will travel the nations abroad, won't share me some peace as I have.
4:06:02In the United States, we have not humiliated the U.S.
4:06:05President of the United States, whoever he is, who have not deserved or received respect, which is essential for the United States to play the great role we are destined to play in helping to build a new structure of peace in the world.
4:06:25Thank you.
4:06:26You see, I take that kind of rhetoric with me in this speech.
4:06:33And also,
4:06:34Bragging a little about being brave is bad either.
4:06:36It's been said, but let's get on with it.
4:06:42Don't you agree?
4:06:42Yeah.
4:06:43And it's said in a low-key way.
4:06:49Yeah, that's it.
4:06:50It's not a trustee way or anything.
4:06:52It's not a trustee way.
4:06:54No.
4:06:55I just say I recognize and I understand it.
4:06:57That's what I'm doing.
4:07:13Yeah, that'll drive the bad guys right up the wall and the good guys will cheer.
4:07:21Right on point.
4:07:22We need to drive them up the wall.
4:07:23That's right.
4:07:25Let them be for the surrender.
4:07:39They want to surrender, sure.
4:07:40They want to be evaluated.
4:07:45People that are on our side can trigger a little, including our columnists.
4:07:53With these moves, you need the people on the hard side solidified more than you need the tender to the people on the other side.
4:08:03And we're tender to that by going to Moscow, Christ's sake, by going back to the talk.
4:08:11I'll ask you this, Desmond.
4:08:16I hope he does well.
4:08:17I expect the Sapphire to be so fast.
4:08:19and also has excellent ideas, but I just feel this is a speech where it's got to be all mine.
4:08:26Do you agree?
4:08:29Yeah.
4:08:30It's a good idea.
4:08:31Good idea.
4:08:31Worked well.
4:08:32Yeah, I think Andrews is for this kind of thing where you have a very clear, and I think that if you have what you want to say, that you can, that he can do the polishing and the state work.
4:08:48What's he called?
4:08:49Wal-Mart?
4:08:55Wal-Mart, yeah.
4:08:559 or 12 o'clock, in the Ziegler's office, please.
4:09:00His home.
4:09:02The last ring of his office.
4:09:06They're probably harassing him, shooting him.
4:09:12Is Ziegler still breathing?
4:09:20Hello, there.
4:09:24Ron.
4:09:24Hello, Oscar.
4:09:27Hello.
4:09:27Hello, Ron.
4:09:27Get through.
4:09:29Yeah.
4:09:30Why do you treat him with that kind of disrespect?
4:09:32What are we talking about?
4:09:33I don't know.
4:09:37I don't know.
4:09:38I don't know.
4:09:39I don't know.
4:09:39I don't know.
4:09:58Oh, is Henry Kenny's store ready?
4:10:04Oh, yeah.
4:10:04Why don't you and Henry come over and talk about it?
4:10:14Why don't you take him out and bring him over?
4:10:22John said he got one question on credibility.
4:10:26He said, well,
4:10:28What does this do to your credibility?
4:10:30I told you what I'll tell us to answer.
4:10:40I don't think, I understand, I don't think, I don't think so.
4:10:48The fact that we covered up the fact that it was just years ago in Moscow.
4:10:54Maybe a little to some people, but I don't think so.
4:10:56You know what I mean?
4:10:57What you've got to say, where secret negotiations will help the cause of peace, they will be secret, gentlemen.
4:11:02We'll do what is necessary.
4:11:02That's the way to handle it.
4:11:06And we can lie, you know.
4:11:08That's the thing.
4:11:09You set it up as a cover, and work, and run.
4:11:12They ought to respect Ron for being, having been smart enough to have said the thing the way he did.
4:11:20Because he didn't lie.
4:11:20He said Kissinger would be heard and part of the camp David over the weekend, and he did.
4:11:27That's right.
4:11:27He spent the weekend with my David.
4:11:36Mm-hm.
4:11:41One thing, Bob, that we have given our people, though, is a common thing to talk all you want about leadership and so forth.
4:11:50It's far more important to getting out, you know, the Johnson type of people, the rest.
4:11:56I'm leading, and I'm demanding, and I'm troubling, and the rest.
4:12:00Believe me, actions of this type, provided we build them up enough, have to get through some leadership in it.
4:12:05I don't know how that works.
4:12:07Do you think so or not?
4:12:08Oh, yeah.
4:12:14This thing, it seems to me, this group itself, you just can't do it without its work.
4:12:22Because he was a master in that way, but he pulled himself in the process of pulling himself in the process.
4:12:31His style hurt him badly too.
4:12:36Even the congressman tonight can give him a little of this.
4:12:43You know, the good guys, it's all off the record, and they'll go on, and they may, but the police, they will occur, and they'll say a little, and that isn't too bad either, and I'll say it again the next time.
4:12:53What do you think?
4:12:54You know, it's good, and you get it.
4:12:56There's no reason at all not to.
4:12:57And it looks, you know, you look at the curtain a little bit, but then don't tell them that's what you're doing.
4:13:03Just do it, and they'll realize it tomorrow night.
4:13:06I'm not going to do it.
4:13:09Okay, bye.
4:13:21Well, I don't think he means that much, does he?
4:13:38It's probably not.
4:13:40It's not a cabin.
4:13:40It's in there, you know, over .
4:13:43Pass the message.
4:13:49I'm going to add Secretary Thornton to the dinner tonight.
4:14:01He's daylight.
4:14:11Well, I'll tell you what's the president going to drop.
4:14:13He's here.
4:14:14He could go on the stage.
4:14:17You don't need to lie to us, you lie to the president, you lie to your girlfriend, but not to us.
4:14:24Listen, here's what happened about what you called wrong for me.
4:14:28I, of course, was on the phone.
4:14:41And Ron said in a very irritated way, yeah.
4:14:46Oh, I thought it was all of it.
4:14:48He said, oh, pardon me, Mr. President.
4:14:53That shows you the respect I get from the one that said it.
4:14:57I think that's a marvelous little big thing to put out, you know, somebody like Skelly.
4:15:03It's like a friend of mine who's people, a guy drove up in front of his house and ran over his dog and killed him.
4:15:11The guy was a kid and came out crying.
4:15:14He said, this is Darryl.
4:15:15The guy got out of the car and says, oh, I'm sorry.
4:15:18I thought it was a cat.
4:15:21Well, I thought, well, I'm sorry.
4:15:22We did that one wrongly, you know, so I took that as that.
4:15:26How did he do it?
4:15:28Well, he read it very slowly, and it seemed to me as if he took more time reading the announcements than I took reading.
4:15:36Why did he do that?
4:15:37Oh, just because I like the cheese.
4:15:39Between April 20th and 24th, and we go back to April 20th and 24th, not then in the case it shows this, but he spoke very slowly.
4:15:53And then he visited Moscow.
4:15:55And then I said, what's in?
4:15:57What's in Moscow?
4:15:57What's in?
4:15:59And then he said, Moscow.
4:16:01And then he said to talk to the general secretary of the CBSU.
4:16:06Let me explain what that means.
4:16:11And he really strung it out.
4:16:14And this was not him.
4:16:16No, no, this was him.
4:16:17Oh, yes.
4:16:18And having my briefing right after, what did they, you looked over those stories, how did they react?
4:16:25Well, they were silent.
4:16:27Oh, they were silent.
4:16:29So I decided, rather than wait for their questions,
4:16:38I better make the point myself.
4:16:39What did you say?
4:16:40I said I want you to know, gentlemen, first of all, that you need to be on the bottom.
4:16:45As you know, the president has been caught in direct contact with the general secretary of the president.
4:16:52You don't call him chairman?
4:16:54No, chairman is my own secretary.
4:16:57All right.
4:16:57General secretary, not the long version.
4:17:00With the general secretary of the president for the last two years.
4:17:08exchanging views on important international questions and other matters.
4:17:13In the course of these exchanges, it was very difficult to get in with other communications.
4:17:21But we could have been, after a full discussion with Secretary of the United Nations, it was decided
4:17:30Great, great.
4:17:31That I should go.
4:17:33I want you to know that I was received with extraordinary courtesy.
4:17:41The meetings were very, very good.
4:17:45Very good.
4:17:46No question, how long did you leave?
4:17:50Where did you go?
4:17:51They were so eager to fly, then they said, well, so we did not discuss that.
4:17:58It would not go to the South Seas, but you can read it out in which sense that we will pass the vote in the national question.
4:18:07We must decide who in California is going to vote in the national question.
4:18:12Great.
4:18:14to that, then they said, how was this meeting decided?
4:18:16I said, really, it would be good if my departure became apparent through the exchanges between the President and the Chancellor, Secretary, President, that it was useful to have a direct communication.
4:18:34There was then a long meeting, which was between the President, Secretary, and myself, which was decided.
4:18:45that I should go and- That's great.
4:18:51So what I should go- The Senator will run.
4:18:54But I should go mention twice.
4:18:57Very much.
4:18:58It's much flies in the transcript that they ask about the TPCF.
4:19:04It's not more to that speculation.
4:19:10And reassurance in the discussions before in this period that we announced that we announced that the best medical .
4:19:21Also, could I suggest a line that you could use if they ever bring this back to us?
4:19:35Just say, gentlemen.
4:19:39The president believes that peace is so important that we must use every possible channel, secret and public, in order to move toward that goal.
4:19:54And where the interests of peace will be better served by a secret mission, the president will order a secret mission.
4:20:00What's your next one?
4:20:03Then they said it was convenient, satisfactory.
4:20:14Did you watch Elizabeth, for example?
4:20:19Did you watch Elizabeth?
4:20:20Actually, they were so stunned.
4:20:22It was one of these cases.
4:20:24Was it like China?
4:20:26Well, no, you weren't there when we did that.
4:20:28Well, it was, they were, no, in China they all clapped as shitasses.
4:20:32They didn't clap?
4:20:32No.
4:20:36I don't think they can, because with China, it was related to the Senate.
4:20:42Could you do me one favor?
4:20:44I want you, among your many other calls today, I want you to call Kay Graham.
4:20:55I thought your editorial was, you wanted me to tell the truth.
4:20:59I thought, and the President thought, that your editorial was smart, Mr. President.
4:21:04No, I don't agree with that.
4:21:05All right, you say it.
4:21:07She said, you included the editorial as fascinating because they walked right into this from the moment they saw it.
4:21:14The President had flown the Moscow summit.
4:21:16He had cornered, the President had cornered the leadership of Moscow.
4:21:24Yeah, so I don't know.
4:21:27And that's all of a sudden.
4:21:30This is a dangerous thing.
4:21:31Now, say, this U.S. trip, I think, with the Post, for just this once, really, off to write an editorial in which they said we were wrong.
4:21:43And you would say that I can just tell you for your own private information, that I couldn't have been received or...
4:21:57Would you mind talking to her?
4:21:58No, no, no.
4:21:59Ream her card.
4:21:59I don't mind .
4:22:00Well, boy, I can't stand her.
4:22:00No, no, she said it's better.
4:22:01You'd have to put a sack over her and ream her.
4:22:07I'm the president, but I have not yet been able to do that extravagantly.
4:22:11But it's good.
4:22:14Got her other husband, another two-sided husband.
4:22:21Does he have a second wife?
4:22:27No, I know her.
4:22:29She's an awkward woman.
4:22:31Sloppy.
4:22:33No, I didn't.
4:22:36I didn't mean to be vicious about it.
4:22:38No, no.
4:22:39She's a mean lady.
4:22:39But I want you to do this to her.
4:22:46Why didn't you tell us?
4:22:49Ha, ha, ha.
4:22:52But you see, the reason this is good, for example, I'm bringing that up, I told Bob, that editorial post represents the whole eastern establishment line.
4:23:00It's the Post, it's the Times, it's Time, it's these people, it's the networks and all the rest.
4:23:09And you see, they didn't ask me any questions.
4:23:11Where did you meet the...
4:23:12I don't know, a little up and down.
4:23:15Well, they'll ask you.
4:23:16Should I say that?
4:23:17Yeah.
4:23:18I don't know.
4:23:18Should I say it?
4:23:19I don't know.
4:23:20I think that's helpful.
4:23:22I mean, you can, you're practicing all the colors.
4:23:29Actually, you know, in terms of the federation, they were going to put five on five into a federal government center.
4:23:34The federal government decided that that would be good enough, so they did it.
4:23:40Moscow will not deny that Vietnam is a successful nation.
4:24:06Oh, I can't deny it.
4:24:07It was too good for the discussion.
4:24:12I know.
4:24:12You know, this fellow that was supposed to read for, I know it's Sunday morning, was held till yesterday after the meeting to explain why Breslin was under attack.
4:24:27And he left exactly two hours after the last meeting.
4:24:33You, after that, you just... Well, they...
4:24:36could not leave fast enough.
4:24:39Really?
4:24:42I mean, I've been at three things.
4:24:44Usually at three things they try to keep me up there as long as possible.
4:24:47Well, a couple of guys started to say they cried.
4:24:57How about the notifications?
4:24:58Can you call Tom?
4:25:00You must have told him a little bit of it.
4:25:04No, I saw him on the phone and I said, John, what's going on here?
4:25:12You know what I mean?
4:25:16I didn't want him to think that I... What did he say?
4:25:20He just said...
4:25:22He liked his thing.
4:25:25Oh, you know, he said, I'll pass the stroke again.
4:25:29He wanted to come right over and talk to me, but I couldn't because there were three things I was seeing.
4:25:40But it's important.
4:25:42But he was ecstatic.
4:25:44Was he really?
4:25:45Oh.
4:25:46That's pretty good, though.
4:25:47He's a hell of a hawk.
4:25:49Yeah, but he saw the invitation.
4:25:51Does he?
4:25:52Oh, he's smarter than the other hawks.
4:25:53We've been in this business for four years.
4:25:58You've been saying you want to get their attention to the act.
4:26:02You've got them in the act.
4:26:03I don't know whether they can deliver it.
4:26:07We can deliver something.
4:26:09But if they don't...
4:26:10If we get...
4:26:10If we get...
4:26:12On May 3rd.
4:26:14I want that strike ready right now.
4:26:16I've talked to Zumwalt.
4:26:18Are they ready?
4:26:20Zumwalt, Willing, or Clarkson?
4:26:21We've got a match up there.
4:26:23We've got a match up there.
4:26:28Are they eager?
4:26:29Yeah.
4:26:30Okay.
4:26:32We should move on.
4:26:36I have asked Al to check one thing.
4:26:38That's a check I don't want to bother you with.
4:26:41You know, I've got a lot of important news out there.
4:26:44So I said, let's take a look at the locker range.
4:26:49And they say those, they would be quite helpful in all this.
4:26:56They won't be able to do it.
4:26:59Well, they can get in there, but they can knock the hell out of more stuff than the destroyers.
4:27:07Oh, yeah.
4:27:07They can demolish the shoreline.
4:27:09Well, that's good.
4:27:11That they can do.
4:27:12But I've had that looked into the day glass.
4:27:16They can reach the docks, but they have to force their way into the island first.
4:27:22Is Zumwalt working on this?
4:27:24Yeah.
4:27:28Could it also be done with the number of destroyers we have out there?
4:27:47Arrested, you know.
4:27:48My worry is the two things, to just blast the beauty of your operation since the offensive started.
4:27:55We hadn't blasted one thing ever.
4:27:56We moved the ship for a plane's truck.
4:28:00Incidentally, it's a damn piece of shit you lost.
4:28:02I'm not even lying.
4:28:04Yeah, but we've done so many other things.
4:28:07Well, the mines they know will be not the same time.
4:28:10But, you know, the people who've missed one target and hit a better one.
4:28:17Oh, yeah.
4:28:17The only goddamn targets they've been dealing with are the ones they've missed.
4:28:21Well, there's several power plants, two absolute smithereens I've ever seen in San Juan that covers that whole area.
4:28:29You know, you were talking about it.
4:28:33And I said sarcastically, were they aiming for it?
4:28:39I really was kidding.
4:28:43And they showed me the picture of what they were aiming for, which was completely undamaged, which was a warehouse.
4:28:57But with what they missed, they knocked out all the docks the town was, and the power plant.
4:29:04If we could have planted explosives in that town and blown it up, we couldn't have done better than what they did by accident.
4:29:18Well, like I told you, they have the discretion to know what I was talking about.
4:29:24And why is it that you're an admins and not actually to the Congress?
4:29:29Do you hear about that?
4:29:31Well, that's a mistake.
4:29:32That shows how that's true.
4:29:35If they don't win, if they don't win, it's a big, big trouble.
4:29:42We estimate that they've lost about 20,000 pounds.
4:29:44That's about 20% of their force.
4:29:49That's like we losing 200,000 pounds.
4:29:56Yeah, but they've been doing it for the years.
4:29:59How many did you kill in March when you came down to pick me?
4:30:06No, I was in Laos and things.
4:30:08We killed about 10 to 15 because they've already lost more than most of us have lost.
4:30:14And in my view, in military region three, they're going to run out of speed in another two weeks.
4:30:23They haven't got reinforcements on any side so that they can annoy us.
4:30:30But, for example, they had two battalions in court.
4:30:33They had two battalions about in track, and the relief force got through.
4:30:37The one area where they still have uncommitted division is near where they can kick that one off anytime.
4:30:46They can't do it.
4:30:48That's where they face the best algorithms.
4:30:50Oh, that's what I meant.
4:30:52We have something there.
4:30:54I mean, they can attack.
4:30:55They can kick off and attack.
4:30:57I don't give it up.
4:30:58No, no, not kick off.
4:30:59I'm thinking of areas where they have unpermitted forces.
4:31:02Now, if that damn 22nd Division really fights on this new defense line, then we're going to chew up another one of their divisions that starts attacking.
4:31:16When you talk for three hours of it and shoot up, you've got to take a day to shoot up after you know.
4:31:21As I told you yesterday, it's going to be a close race.
4:31:24If Saigon doesn't collapse, I know it will.
4:31:27There's literally no other way this thing can go.
4:31:29If one of them is going to get knocked down, will the attack on the dark?
4:31:36Oh, it's going to collapse.
4:31:40The attack on the North is very psychological, but it's positive psychological.
4:31:44Also, it's positive makes it harder for them to crank up the loot that they have.
4:31:48It won't stop this one.
4:31:49You see, the attack on the North that we have in mind is going to do it with power plants.
4:32:03Power plants.
4:32:05uh, whatever it was, the P.O.L., the docks.
4:32:06Well, they're still about 50% of the P.O.L.
4:32:09Fine.
4:32:09And I still think we ought to take the ice off now.
4:32:14I think... To let brown people, let brown people... No, about 200,000 people.
4:32:19Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
4:32:37I just want you to think big, Henry, for Christ's sake.
4:32:41I think we're going to make it.
4:32:45I think no one ever would think you had said three weeks ago.
4:32:52that the General Secretary of the Communist Party would listen to the Congress and then send his trusted and most trusted advisors on the way there.
4:33:01And then also Henry read to him on hires and had to send messages.
4:33:07Henry didn't know the game he was playing, but Al and I sort of flew together.
4:33:16So Henry reads them to these sons of bitches.
4:33:18Isn't that what you did?
4:33:19Yeah, yesterday at the meeting I said,
4:33:22He said, how can he say this?
4:33:28How can he say this?
4:33:31You know, he's a very explosive guy.
4:33:46To be effective, you'll beat me if I knew about it.
4:33:47Yeah, no, no, I don't buy that fact.
4:33:51I agree that it's important, but I'm not going to let him get away with that.
4:33:56Of course, not bad.
4:33:57But he was really outraged at the... Of course, I wish you had read the best line in there, which is from the experience of the law.
4:34:06Oh, I didn't.
4:34:06I said that anyone who gets a murder weapon...
4:34:09I said anyone, anyone who gets a murder weapon...
4:34:14someone he knows is going to kill with it, is equally responsible for it.
4:34:19No, I didn't.
4:34:20Did you?
4:34:20Oh, yeah.
4:34:20What he said.
4:34:21We had, I said we had, we had what must be the most acrimonious session.
4:34:28It wasn't acrimonious.
4:34:32Yeah, it's all right.
4:34:33It wasn't acrimonious, but he was really, the real problem is he didn't quote it.
4:34:39Huh.
4:34:40I think he got there by stupidity.
4:34:42I don't think he got there.
4:34:43I don't think that he thought they would start such a huge offensive before the time.
4:34:49Because he thought they would start a sort of typical offensive.
4:34:54That if they won, it would be embarrassing.
4:34:58If they lost, it would make a no more defense for them.
4:35:01But he didn't think, he said, I didn't think, realize until 10 days ago how deadly serious this was.
4:35:11I mean, he has really a fantastic problem at home because Trump is falling on his face.
4:35:17Now the summit is falling on his face, or at least it's in danger.
4:35:21Yeah, you know, we always think here that losing the summit is the worst thing that could happen to us.
4:35:28It isn't.
4:35:29Losing the summit might be the worst thing that could happen to him.
4:35:34Well, do you see my point?
4:35:35His whole policy has to be based on it.
4:35:36Here, we are using the summit against him to blackmail him.
4:35:42And he has had one hell of a time.
4:35:45You know, he told me at a Politburo meeting before, and he said, can you give me something I can tell them?
4:35:52I said, no.
4:35:54I was very...
4:35:56If I made a mistake, it would be too bad, because the thing we have to keep ahead of them is the prospect of solutions.
4:36:03Well, your Gorontsov meeting where you say the President was so delighted with the meeting and he appreciates the courtesies that have been extended to you.
4:36:13How about my sending a message to him, I appreciate the courtesies you extended, but I've got a question for him.
4:36:21I look forward to meeting him personally, and I believe that
4:36:35I think that's a cooperation that I'm most grateful for the courtesy to be extended to you and also to those who are advancing our curriculum.
4:36:45Mr. Mixon and I are looking forward to our meeting.
4:36:49Put a little of that in.
4:36:51But a personal message for me, I appreciate the courtesy to be extended.
4:36:55He's given me a full report.
4:36:57I regret that we have this one issue and only one that really divides us.
4:37:02We don't have to.
4:37:05Do you want a television?
4:37:08How will you have a television?
4:37:10I said, I don't know.
4:37:14Except France, he said, they can't, they've got more than a hundred, so they get paid to the, to the, to the call.
4:37:23France has only a hundred people.
4:37:29But I didn't discuss it with them.
4:37:30Yeah, we have to remember that we're dealing with a great country.
4:37:32The 100's all right with me.
4:37:33The 100's all right with me.
4:37:34I just picked them out as if they were good.
4:37:36I don't want that out of you.
4:37:37I'm just guessing.
4:37:38I'll give the press, but I will not give another name.
4:37:41The 100's good.
4:37:41Well, that's reported.
4:37:42I didn't go into it.
4:37:42Don't handle it as a spy.
4:37:45Just kick the shit asses in the...
4:37:49I told you the ones I didn't want to have go if it's necessary, they ain't going.
4:37:59But everybody that went to the kitchen chapter and watched it, like all eaters, he wrote a book.
4:38:03He said there was a woman who did a series of arguments with the government.
4:38:11And he's going to go home.
4:38:11Yes, sir.
4:38:13Go home.
4:38:14And I was thinking of you.
4:38:14Oh, yes.
4:38:14The editor.
4:38:15Also, we've got to take that fellow from the money dealer if he wants to go.
4:38:22Right.
4:38:22He's not much.
4:38:23He had all those other people.
4:38:28Well, I didn't discuss it with Peter.
4:38:31But getting back to the point, I just want to see it.
4:38:36Sure, then.
4:38:37I'll have a little fun with it.
4:38:39You'll have a little fun with it.
4:38:40The whole briefing lasted 10 minutes or so.
4:38:41Well, I know how, but we should have fun.
4:38:45Oh, yes.
4:38:45Oh, yes, very well.
4:38:49You know, they didn't ask any of the questions.
4:38:53They didn't know what to do.
4:38:56Well, I think it was about this afternoon, but right now we're just talking about this afternoon.
4:39:01You go forward on the announcement of my speech, which we'll get that one, that one going on.
4:39:10And that we made the decision, I can throw off again, and Rob, that we made the final decision on Monday, after Dr. Durant reported the prayer.
4:39:19That might be one thing I neglected to do with John, which is that, you know,
4:39:24if you put out a list of people who've been along because they'll find out that it might be .
4:39:41All right.
4:39:43I'll see you later.
4:39:43One thing I did this morning .
4:39:46You didn't tell them that you were in Moscow?
4:39:54Oh, of course not.
4:39:56I wish he would.
4:39:58That's a little crass.
4:39:59What did he tell you?
4:40:00What did Rush do?
4:40:00I mean, his judgment's pretty good on what he's saying.
4:40:03It's just going down like this.
4:40:06And Connell did too, didn't he?
4:40:07Oh, not over his head.
4:40:07Oh, Connell did.
4:40:08Connell, he will be standing.
4:40:10He said it was a massive stroke again.
4:40:12Of course, he likes to keep one jump ahead of the other.
4:40:21He did not express concern about the fact that
4:40:24that here we are, meeting with these bloodbastards of a time that I don't think you'll get to meet with.
4:40:31Well, we did not have a speech as well, because I thought we were going to say we were going to get a bombing.
4:40:38In your briefing tonight, this afternoon, it's extraordinarily important that you make the point, gentlemen, that the President has flatly rejected the proposition that the United States will go back to talking
4:40:54will stop bombing in order to go back to the target.
4:40:58We bought that package.
4:40:59They sold us that package in 68, and we're not going to buy it again now.
4:41:06The bombing goes forward.
4:41:08That will save the hawks, if you just say that much.
4:41:10But I think the hawks will understand.
4:41:12I had no impression from Conley at all.
4:41:14But one thing that you might find attractive, President, I asked the group this morning, what did we do?
4:41:22if they propose a ceasefire, that is, if they propose a shutdown of everyone, the military... On the ground.
4:41:34On the ground, that they... Why not?
4:41:35Why not?
4:41:36The argument is, Mr. President, that it is... And then screw it, and then break it.
4:41:41No, no, but the argument is that if there's a ceasefire without they having taken a single provincial capital, it would be a shattering of people.
4:41:50Well, how about you?
4:41:50How about you?
4:41:53So they've got a third, a half, and three provinces.
4:42:00But they haven't fired men.
4:42:02We've got 3,000 troops in this.
4:42:05Oh, now.
4:42:07When there is regular formation, there is least trouble for us.
4:42:16What people do is, of these sorts of things, we can't try to pay budget, you know, everything else.
4:42:23But I was fascinated that Zumwalt... Why was Zumwalt there?
4:42:29Because Mora was representing the Czech Republic.
4:42:34Well, Zumwalt, he's an intelligent man.
4:42:35Helms, Rush... Why was Helms there?
4:42:41Our study had always shown after we lost it, it's expired in place.
4:42:45Have you talked to Holmes about it now, sir?
4:42:48Yes.
4:42:48Does he know?
4:42:49But he knew, he said, he knew something was up.
4:42:51What does he think about it?
4:42:52He thinks there's a 60-40 chance that we'll break it.
4:42:55No, but what did he think of the idea that we went?
4:42:59He thought it was tremendous.
4:43:02Did he read it?
4:43:03Oh, he didn't worry.
4:43:04Not at all.
4:43:05Why did he thought it was tremendous?
4:43:08Because we've got the Soviets engaged now because of the lack of solidarity.
4:43:16It's unbelievable.
4:43:17The mere fact that they transmitted our message, Mr. President, you have to imagine the Russians were bombing Iran and demanding that Iran knock off something of vital importance to it, and we then not receive a Russian MSME.
4:43:34And on top of it, transmit the demand that they do this.
4:43:38This is an unfriendly act.
4:43:42I mean, we are bombing one of their allies, and they are transmitting an ultimatum for us with a deadline of May 2nd.
4:43:47What they always said to LBJ, they said two things.
4:43:53One, they could be on some of the meeting while the bombing was going on.
4:43:56Two, that they could not transmit messages while the bombing was going on.
4:44:03And I'm sure they would never have transmitted.
4:44:05Do you remember what they did with us?
4:44:07They never transmitted our messages.
4:44:11Three years ago when we were whining and doubting them and sucking it out.
4:44:14Yeah.
4:44:14It's definitely one technical point.
4:44:17I've got to go to Florida tomorrow and I'm going two times to go.
4:44:24Yeah, at least for a day.
4:44:26I think it would be a very bad public image if I'm down there at this time without your book.
4:44:33And then you can come back.
4:44:34That will set the whole stage forth.
4:44:36The second thing I would recommend to some visitors from the West, invite them there.
4:44:47Well, can you spend the day?
4:44:48You go down Wednesday night with Liz.
4:44:52Please.
4:44:53No, I'm not serious with you.
4:44:55Does it present an insoluble problem to you?
4:44:57I don't think one day in the summer we can... Oh, don't present any problems because I can't get back.
4:45:02You can get back any time you want.
4:45:04It's just that I don't... Well, I'll be back Friday.
4:45:09Right.
4:45:09Yeah.
4:45:10If you have all day and we can have dinner together Thursday night, Friday night, we'll let that out, too, if we're...
4:45:16If we're talking to somebody about that, then... Oh, I see.
4:45:22He gave him a silver chopstick.
4:45:31He's a nice man.
4:45:35He practically got down about April.
4:45:41His girlfriend thought that Henry wouldn't go away.
4:45:50No, I don't know.
4:45:52You can see the point there, don't you?
4:45:54By the war, by the things going on, by the destruction of everything that's going on, it wouldn't have been like the president's down there sitting on his ass, and I've got to have you there for a day.
4:46:11Go Monday.
4:46:11Go Wednesday night late.
4:46:12See, we go down right after the broadcast, and we get down there and spend the day Thursday, and you come back Friday morning.
4:46:17You come down and stay over Thursday night.
4:46:20That would be good, right?
4:46:22Or you can come back late on Friday, Thursday night if you want to.
4:46:26But I'll do one or the other.
4:46:27I'll let you know if it's possible that I can stay through the better part of Friday.
4:46:31Good.
4:46:31That'll be good.
4:46:35And I don't think the weekend matters to you, Bob.
4:46:37You know, you couldn't go, but you could die.
4:46:42I know.
4:46:46I think people would not appreciate the fact that I was on a high on the bottom at this point.
4:46:57And you're bringing it.
4:46:58And you went into a man who said, there's no question about that.
4:47:03There's nobody questioning that.
4:47:06There's really changed enormously in the last six months.
4:47:10It isn't just that you are, that you've got the patriots.
4:47:14I think we've now convinced people that you are pan-patriotic.
4:47:18This is what they think they're doing.
4:47:20That you can't have everything, and that these guys challenge you.
4:47:25It's not against the land, it's the way it is.
4:47:29And now it's Moscow that's going to have to get out of here.
4:47:34And therefore, if next week we have to go very far, then I agree with you, we have to go very far.
4:47:42We don't want to give it to them for only two days.
4:47:46We give them three days, they'll just hit a lot of stuff that they don't need it.
4:47:55We need something that we can say to the residents of the building by the time we tell them what's going on.
4:48:06All right.
4:48:07And also the Chinese.
4:48:11And also the Chinese.
4:48:11And actually, if we can keep this thing going through the summit without good ethnic laws, there's a...
4:48:20If we can have the summit and you have resolved the agreement, plus these principles, plus all the other garbage you're going to get there, and you then come back and level...
4:48:35You'll have to, if it's that necessary.
4:48:40But we cannot do it in Vietnam.
4:48:43Absolutely.
4:48:45Okay, we've got to be prepared.
4:48:49All right, great.
4:48:51And again, be sure to call Kay Graham.
4:48:54And also, Greg, I don't think he needs to call.
4:48:58What are you mindful of?
4:49:06The President is showing great courage, insisting on this, and he's stuck it down the Soviet's face.
4:49:15Good luck, everyone.
4:49:39and they know that the bombing is going forward, that's the point that the goal line is going to be to risk each.
4:49:57Considering that Gallup's bent on arresting, to come out with a majority, even if we're up that much, the United States is still approving Vietnam and the rest of the ship.
4:50:10That'd be changed, but I think it's a hell of a damn thing.
4:50:13Well, yeah, because they don't ask the question.
4:50:15Well, they don't write that answer because they don't know the answer.
4:53:22If you want to take a second, you probably know this.
4:53:28Carpenters, which are a very big singing group.
4:53:38I think it's just two or three of them.
4:53:43They're the hottest of the popular celebrities that we've got for us.
4:53:48You don't need to do it.
4:53:50I'm a little afraid of the present time.
4:53:51They aren't.
4:53:51But I think it's better not to.
4:53:52I guess, sir, I think it's a little too.
4:53:56But anyway, would you tell Ken that the president wants them to visit his office, open the office to him and give him the papers and so forth and so on.
4:54:05I think that's as much as we can do on the roadside.
4:54:17And the other thing, we can call over and see whether the pressure is there or not going to be seen.
4:54:23We won't be able to see the carpenters, but you might see a Patricia or Julie or Mrs. Henson could see them.
4:54:33And also be sure that the Oval Office is open for them.
4:54:37They're taking care of the tablecloth and the seatbelt and the rose garden and all that.
4:54:43They have to go to the White House and get downstairs.
4:54:48But if we get one of the family to freedom, that would be great.
4:54:56Their family is awfully good at this too, you know.
4:55:00They're very warm.
4:55:04Just like each of these things.
4:55:14And the point is, as Henry was saying, it's true here as well as there.
4:55:25You have a bug.
4:55:28Boy, a lot of the things you've done are things that one might have thought at the time was a bluff.

NARA Description

On April 25, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Ronald L. Ziegler, Manolo Sanchez, unknown person(s), White House operator, Henry A. Kissinger, and John K. Andrews, Jr. met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 10:50 am to 12:50 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 332-035 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 332-35

Date: April 25, 1972
Time: 10:50 am - 12:50 pm
Location: Old Executive Office Building

The President met with H. R. Haldeman and Ronald L. Zielger.

     News story
         -Impact

     Refreshment

     US-Soviet relations
         -Henry A. Kissinger's trip
                      -Helmut (“Hal”) Sonnenfeldt
                      -Ronald L. Ziegler's inability to reach Sonnenfeldt

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 10:50 am.

     Refreshment

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 11:06 am.

     US-Soviet relations
         -Kissinger's trip
               -Drama
                      -People’s Republic of China [PRC]
               -Secrecy
                      -Success
                      -Speculation as to Kissinger's location
                           -Paris
                           -Camp David
               -Ziegler's briefing
                      -Time
                      -Possible questions
                           -Gerald L. Warren
                           -The President's decision on Vietnam policy
                                 -Announcements
                                 -Impact
                                       -White House morale
                                       -Opposition confusion
               -The President's statement
                      -Time
                      -Announcement on television
                           -General situation in Vietnam
                      -Announcement
                           -Kissinger’s trip
                                 -Soviet summit
                           -Ziegler's statement
         -Vietnam
               -The President's television address

     Vietnam
          -The President's supporters
               -Barry M. Goldwater
               -Attacks on Democrats
                     -Madam Nguyen Thi Binh's letter to Congress
                           -Advantages for administration
                           -Reaction of doves
                     -Rhetoric
                           -Congress
                           -Charge of support of enemy
                           -Winston Lord

                -Robert A. Taft, Jr.
                -Attacks on Democrats
                     -Repudiation of North Vietnamese and Madam Binh letter
                           -Reports in New York Times, Washington Post and news networks
                           -National Broadcasting Company [NBC], Columbia Broadcasting
                            System [CBS], and United Press International [UPI] reports
                -The President's challenge to opponents
                     -Demand for repudiation of Binh letter
                           -Charles S. Gubser's statement

The President talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between 10:50 and 11:06 am.

     [Conversation No. 332-35A]

     Dinner for congressmen
          -Call to Clark MacGregor
                -Invitation to Gubser
                      -Statement on Vietnam

[End of telephone conversation]

     Vietnam
          -Binh letter
               -Comments
                      -Wayne L. Hays
                      -Alexander [first name or surname unknown]

The President talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between 10:50 and 11:06 am.

     [Conversation No. 332-35B]

     Dinner for congressmen
          -Invitations
                -Hays
                      -Refusal to issue invitation
                -MacGregor
                -Number

[End of telephone conversation]

     Vietnam
          -Binh letter
               -Comments

                       -Taft
                            -Challenge to Edward M. Kennedy
           -The President's speech
                -Ziegler's announcement
                -Contents
                -Appeal to hawks
                -Press reactions
                      -Washington Post editorials
                            -Soviet summit
                                 -Risks
                -The President's decision
                      -Time
                      -Warren
                            -Camp David
                            -Kissinger's meeting in Moscow
                      -Time
                            -Camp David
                -Ziegler's announcement
                      -Anatoliy F. Dobrynin's statement
                            -Change of wording
                                 -Leonid I. Brezhnev
                                 -Andrei A. Gromyko
                            -Kissinger

Ziegler left at 11:06 am.

           -White House staff
                -The President's conversations with Charles W. Colson and MacGregor
                      -Colson's analysis of Kissinger's trip
           -Negotiations
           -US bombing of North Vietnam
                -Justification
                      -Publicity
                -Colson's concern
                      -Publicity
                -Continuation of bombing
                      -Publicity
                -Conditions for cessation
                      -Wording
                -Handling of critics
                      -MacGregor
                      -Colson
                      -Strategy

          -The President's speech
               -Discussion with Kissinger
               -Rhetoric
               -Length
                     -Compared with November 3rd and Cambodia speeches

Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 11:06 am.

     Tobacco

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 11:17 am.

     Vietnam
          -The President's speech
               -Approach
                      -Previous speeches
          -Binh letter
               -Reaction
               -A. Eric Sevareid
               -Contents
                      -Peace proposal
               -Colson's reaction
                      -Kissinger
          -The President's speech
               -Conclusion
                      -Formulation
                      -Secrecy from staff
               -US bombing
                      -Wording of statement
                      -Quotability
                            Compared with Lyndon B. Johnson's wording
               -Follow-up
                      -Haldeman's role
                            -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                      -Public release
                            -Congress
                      -Resolutions
                      -Marches
                      -Calls to networks
                      -Poll
                            -George H. Gallup and Louis P>Harris
                            -Trial heats
                            -Questions

                                 -Bombing
                                 -Compared with Gallup-type questions
                                 -Support for the President
                            -Release
                            -Other polls
                                 -Gallup
                                 -Harris
                                 -Albert E. Sindlinger
                            -Questions
                                 -Moscow summit

Ronald L. Ziegler entered at 11:17 am.

                 -Ziegler's announcement of the President's speech
                      -Kissinger’s concern
                             -Soviets
                             -Brezhnev
                      -Delays in announcement
                      -Time

Ziegler left at 11:20 am.

                 -Kissinger’s concern
                      -Speech
                 -Drafts
                      -John K. Andrews, Jr.
                      -William L. Safire
                            -Methods of review
                                 -Kissinger
                                 -Raymond K. Price, Jr.
                                 -Leonard Garment
                            -Problems
                      -Ziegler
                            -Desire for concensus
                                 -Problems

     Kissinger
          -Press briefing
          -Trip to Florida with the President

           -Unknown actress
               -Haig
               -Schedule
               -Fontainebleu Hotel
                    -Publicity

The President's schedule
     -Trip to Florida
           -Time
           -Meeting with Kissinger
     -The President's speech
           -Lord
           -Accuracy of certain points
                 -Creighton W. Abrams's report
     -Trip to Florida
           -Arrangements
           -Time
                 -National Basketball Association [NBA] playoffs
     -The President's speech
           -West Coast time
           -Announcement
           -Interruptions
                 -Reception
           -NBA playoffs
           -Audience
                 -Size

Kissinger's trip
     -Sonnenfeldt
     -Ziegler's knowledge
           -Secrecy
                 -Cover story
                       -Sonnenfeldt
                       -Trip to Camp David
                       -Paris
                             -Sonnenfeldt
                                   -Activities
     -Summit
           -Liberals' views
                 -Risks from bombing
                 -Risks of future in Vietnam
                 -The President's reelection

    Vietnam
         -Public relations efforts
              -Colson
              -Attacks on media
                     -The Vice President
         -The President's speech
              -Media reception
                     -Attacks on networks
              -Contents
                     -Kissinger’s trip
                     -Melvin R. Laird
                     -Troop withdrawals
                     -Peace offers
         -Soviet summit
         -The President's speech
              -Washington Post
              -Reaction of opponents
              - Washington Post
                     -Phone calls
                           -John D. Ehrlichman's call to Katharine L. Graham
                           - Washington Post editor
                           -Calls from Congressmen and Senators

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 57s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6

*****************************************************************

    Vietnam
         -Kissinger's trip to Moscow
              -Timing of announcement
                    -Colson's and MacGregor's concern
                    -Goldwater's speech
         -Bombing
              -Goldwater's speech

                     -Timing of information given to Goldwater
                     -Rejection of North Vietnamese demand
              -The President's statement
                     -Kissinger's briefing
              -Colson and MacGregor
              -Washington Star
              -Support
              -Current situation
         -The President's speech
              -Announcement
              -Timing
              -Bad news
                     -Abrams
              -Support of South Vietnam
         -Binh letter

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 42s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8

*****************************************************************

         -The President's domestic position
         -Diplomacy
              -Kissinger's upcoming trip
              -Summit
                    -Resumption of bombing
              -Kissinger
         -Congressmen
         -The President's supporters
              -William F. (“Billy”) Graham

    US-Soviet relations
        -Kissinger's trip
              -Cover
                     -Camp David

                -Discovery

The President's schedule
     -A graduation
          -Julie Nixon Eisenhower
          -Ceremony
                 -Location

Vietnam
     -Binh letter
          -Patrick J. Buchanan memorandum
          -Inclusion in speech
                 -Haldeman's advice
     -The President's speech
          -Length
          -Troop withdrawals
          -Bombings
          -The President's policies
          -Kissinger
          -Justification for actions
                 -Leslie T. (“Bob”) Hope's comments

The President's forthcoming speech
     -Trip to PRC

Vietnam
     -The President's speech
          -North Vietnamese invasion
                -Failure
                      -Abrams's views
                -Impact on Congress and public opinion
          -South Vietnam
                -Evacuation of US forces
          -North Vietnamese invasion
                -Stakes in war
                -Aid of Soviet Union
                -Success
                      -Consequences
                      -Risks of other wars
                -US goals
                      -Peace offers
                      -Consequences of failure
                -Risks

                           -1972 election
                                 -Costs of failure
                -US foreign policy goals
                      -South Vietnam
                      -Trips to PRC and Moscow
                      -Respect for US and the presidency
                      -The President's successors
                           -Dangers of defeat in South Vietnam
                -Text
                      -Haldeman's opinion
                -Tone
                -The President's goals
                      -Victory
                           -Impact on critics
                                 -Desire to surrender
          -The President's supporters
                -Encouragement
          -Trip to Moscow
                -Peace talks
          -The President's speech
                -Safire
                -The President's mark
                -Revisions
                      -Andrews

H. R. Haldeman talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 11:20 am
and 12:00 pm.

     [Conversation No. 332-35C]

     [See Conversation No. 23-59]

The President conferred with Haldeman at an unknown time during the conversation.

     Ziegler
          -Press briefing
               -Press reaction

Haldeman talked with an unknown woman at an unknown time.

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler at an unknown time.

[End of telephone conversation]

     Press
             -Ziegler's briefing
                  -Question
                  -Kissinger's trip
                         -Credibility
                               -Public opinion
                                     -Support for secrecy
                         -Ziegler's answer
                               -Plausibility

     Vietnam
          -The President's leadership
               -John B. Connally's views
               -Lyndon B. Johnson
                     -Contrast in styles

     The President's schedule
          -Dinner for congressmen
               -Reward for supporters
               -Laird
               -[Thomas S.?] Kleppe
                      -Invitation

H. R. Haldeman talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between 11:20 am and
12:00 pm.

     [Conversation No. 332-35D]

                  -Rogers C. B. Morton
                       -Invitation

[End of telephone conversation]

Kissinger and Ziegler entered at 12:00 pm.

     Press
             -Ziegler's handling
                  -Secrecy of Kissinger's trip
                         -Kissinger's veracity
             -Ziegler
                  -The President's call
                         -Ziegler's response

                  -Haldeman
                  -Publicity
                        -Scali
                  -Anecdote
-Ziegler's announcement
      -Reading of statement
-Kissinger's briefing
      -Press reaction
      -The President's contacts with Brezhnev
            -Brezhnev's title
                  -Mao Tse-tung's title
      -William P. Rogers
      -Reception for Kissinger
            -Cordiality
            -Discussion of Vietnam
            -Benefits of meeting
            -Rogers
      -Vietnam
            -Speculation
      -Proper approach
      -The President's goals in Vietnam
            -Use of secret channels
      -Meeting with Brezhnev
            -Results
            -Peter Lisagor
      -Press reactions
            -Compared with PRC trip briefing
-Kissinger's call to Graham
      - Washington Post editorial
            -Moscow summit
            -Mistakes
            -Moscow summit
                  -Reception for Kissinger
      -Graham
            -Philip L. Graham
                  -Death
      -Washington Post editorial
            -Views of eastern establishment
                  -Washington Post, New York Times, Time, Newsweek, and networks
-Call to Rogers
-Kissinger's trip to Moscow
      -Discussions
      -North Vietnamese delegate's trip

-Kissinger's briefing of press
      -Laird and Connally
            -Notification
-Connally's reaction to Kissinger's trip
-Soviets
-Naval strikes
      -Preparations
            -Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr.
      -Attacks
            -Shore batteries
            -Haig
                  -Range of guns
                        -Destroyers
            -Zumwalt
      -Destroyers
            -Number
-Air strikes
      -B-52s
            -Targets
                  -Accuracy
            -Intensity
            -Destruction of targets
                  -Warehouses
                  -Docks
                  -Power Plant
                  -Accuracy
-Message to Brezhnev
-Binh letter
-Air strikes
      -North Vietnamese losses
            -Men
                  -Figures
                  -Laotian operation
            -Military Region Three
            -Military Region Four
-North Vietnamese invasion
      -Units in south
      -Army Of The Republic Of Vietnam [ARVN] units
            -Losses
      -North Vietnamese losses
      -Saigon and Hanoi
            -US attacks on north
                  -Power plants

                      -Petroleum, Oil and Lubricants [POL] dumps
                      -Docks
     -US strikes
          -Nuclear weapons
          -South Vietnamese chances
     -Kissinger's meeting with Brezhnev
          -Significance
          -Statements on bombing
     -North Vietnamese invasion
          -Soviet aid
                 -Brezhnev's reaction
          -Soviet knowledge
                 -Extent of offensive
     -Soviets
          -Willy Brandt
     -Soviet Summit
          -Importance for Soviets
                 -Politburo meeting
          -Kissinger's meeting with Yuli M. Vorontsov
                 -The President's message
                       -The President's trip to Moscow
                 -Divisive issue
          -Kissinger’s meetings in Moscow
          -Reception
                 -Press reaction
                       -Kitchen Cabinet
                       -Trips to Moscow
                             -Books and articles by reporters
                       -Clarence Fickiue [sp?], editor
                       -Cleveland Plain Dealer

-Press
     -Kissinger's briefing
          -Duration
          -Press reaction
     -The President's speech
          -Announcement
          -The President's decision on something
                -Kissinger's report

Kissinger's trip to Moscow
     -List of those who went
           -Release

Ziegler left at 12:28 pm.

     US-Soviet relations
         -Kissinger's trip
               -Meetings with D. Kenneth Rush and Connally
               -Connally's reaction
         -The President's speech
         -Kissinger's briefing
               -Points to make
                      -Rejection of North Vietnamese terms
                           -Appeal to hawks

     Vietnam
          -Negotiations
          -Cease-fire proposal
               -Reaction
          -Nguyen Van Thieu
          -Negotiations
               -North Vietnamese invasion
               -Conditions for resumption
          -Kissinger's briefing
               -Haig
               -Zumwalt
                      -Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
               -Richard M. Helms
               -Rush
               -Helms
                      -Response to Soviet trip
          -Soviet trip
               -Significance
          -Negotiations
               -Soviet transmittal of US messages

     The President's schedule
          -Trip to Florida
                -Kissinger's presence
                      -Necessity
                -Itinerary
                      -Arrangements
                           -Kissingers visitors
                -Itinerary
                -Dinner

              -Publicity
              -Unknown person
                   -Gifts to Kissinger
              -Kissinger's presence
                   -Necessity
                   -Itinerary
                   -Return trip
              -Weekend
              -Publicity

    Vietnam
         -The President's efforts
         -Air strikes
               -Targets
         -Soviet Union
         -PRC
         -North Vietnamese invasion
         -Soviet Summit
               -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT] agreement
               -Benefits
               -Possible cancellation
         -Kissinger's call to Graham
         -Kissinger's call to Ronald W. Reagan
               -Air strikes

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 21
[Privacy]
[Duration: 7s ]

              REAGAN

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 21

*****************************************************************

         -Call to Nelson A. Rockefeller
         -Kissinger's call to Reagan
               -The President's courage
               -Soviets

Kissinger left at an unknown time after 12:28 pm.

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 22
[Privacy]
[Duration: 7s ]

                REAGAN

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 22

*****************************************************************

           -Possible call to Barry M. Goldwater
           -Bombing
                -Polls
                      -Public approval
                      -Gallup
                             -Wording of questions

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 19
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 57s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 19

*****************************************************************

     The President's schedule
          -Possible meeting with Richard and Karen Carpenter [singing group]
               -Lunch with Ken [surname unknown]
               -Support for the President
               -Tour of Oval Office
               -Tricia Nixon Cox, Julie Nixon Eisenhower and Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon

H. R. Haldeman talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between 12:40 and 12:46

pm.

      [Conversation No. 332-35E]

                -Arrangements
                     -Tricia Nixon Cox, Mrs. Nixon and Julie Nixon
                      Eisenhower
                -Tour of White House
                     -Oval Office
                     -Rose Garden
                -Greeting by First Family

[End of telephone conversation]

           -First Family
                 -Meetings with celebrities

      Vietnam
           -Negotiations
                -The President's strategy
           -Bombing
                -Intensity
                -Purpose
           -North Vietnam
           -Negotiations
                -Cease-fire
                -Thieu's resignation
                -Cease-fire
                      -Conditions
                -Withdrawal of US Troops
                -Muskie's Comments
           -Soviet Summit

Andrews entered at 12:46 pm.

      Andrews's meeting with the President
          -Time

      The President's speech
           -Andrews's revisions

Haldeman left at 12:47 pm.

                -Length
                -Further questions
          -Figures and facts
                -Verification
                -Lord
          -Distribution of draft
                -Limitations
                      -Lord
                            -Ziegler
                            -Haldeman
                            -Kissinger
          -Draft
                -The President's review
                      -Time
                -Preparation

     US-Soviet relations
         -Kissinger's trip
               -Secrecy

Andrews left at 12:50 pm.

Also recorded on April 25, 1972

  • 332-023 10:05 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:05 am and 10:40 am.
  • 332-029 10:40 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 10:40 am to 10:45 am.
  • 332-030 10:45 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:45 am and 10:50 am.
  • 332-031 10:45 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:45 am and 10:50 am.
  • 332-032 10:45 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:45 am and 10:50 am.
  • 332-033 10:45 AM · 30 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:45 am and 10:50 am.
  • 332-034 10:45 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:45 am and 10:50 am.
  • 023-059 11:20 AM · 2 min — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:20 am and 12:00 pm.

All 54 conversations from April 25, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 332-035, April 25, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/332-035 (accessed October 12, 2026).