Nixon, Colson & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Presidential Approval Ratings

5:16:38I'll tell that Andrew just did a hell of a good job.
5:16:40Much better than where he would have gone if he got beaten.
5:16:44He made some additions that were excellent.
5:16:47He worked them hard.
5:16:49He did a hell of a good job.
5:16:52I'm going to have to read him the whole thing.
5:16:55He's got to be able to do it.
5:16:57He's got to be able to do it.
5:16:59If he feels badly about it, he can put it down a little bit.
5:17:03I personally think that the question is good, you know.
5:17:05The thing that Andrew Gray said, well, it's disappointing.
5:17:08There have been many critics who said that we can't vote his speech.
5:17:13I'm talking about the one from the president.
5:17:16That's altogether different.
5:17:18I mean, that was not an election year.
5:17:20Right now, the critics have all made the point that I risked the election for this thing, haven't they?
5:17:27And so I think we face it.
5:17:28Also, that's a terrible message to the Russians.
5:17:31See, but I don't give a shit about the election.
5:17:35Don't you think it's stronger that way?
5:17:47Hey, there you go.
5:17:50All right.
5:18:11Okay.
5:18:19Secretary, please.
5:18:27Mr. Secretary?
5:19:04How about the jackasses out there?
5:19:12Good.
5:21:42Where are you? .
5:22:13Oh, geez.
5:22:27What do you think?
5:22:29I mean, don't worry about the hawks.
5:22:31When I go on my speech tomorrow morning, I'm going to say we're going to continue the bombing until they get the hell out of South Vietnam.
5:22:41That's all that matters.
5:22:42What do you think of the whole thing?
5:22:44But you have to understand, of course, just bamboozled.
5:22:48Goddamn Washington Post had an editorial this morning indicating the sum of jeopardizes and arrests for all this shit.
5:22:57I described it to Holden this morning as a classic draw play.
5:23:04Draw?
5:23:04A draw play.
5:23:07Yeah.
5:23:08Because what we did, what you did, commonly gave the background around Friday.
5:23:15Well, how'd that go?
5:23:16Yes, sir.
5:23:16Next, it was banner headlines.
5:23:20You know what I mean?
5:23:21But at least they carried it.
5:23:23Oh, yes.
5:23:23And time and newsweek was good.
5:23:26Valeriani had two minutes of it on Saturday night.
5:23:29What it did was to set up a perfect economy.
5:23:33He said that you felt that whether you were re-elected or not was less important than whether the country had any foreign policy with which it could survive for future generations.
5:23:48That's good, don't you think?
5:23:49All right, let's talk that way.
5:23:50Oh, and that you were perfectly prepared about re-election.
5:23:52I want the country to win.
5:23:54Perfectly prepared to risk
5:23:56prepared to risk the summit, prepared to risk anything for yourself personally because the country that would have a viable, credible foreign policy or the office would not be where anyone hoped.
5:24:06A body would want to talk to the President of the United States and be bucked out of Vietnam.
5:24:16And he did it so good that it set out the tone.
5:24:20The letter he had on his report was marvelous, setting out, set out the tone.
5:24:25of you being tough, courageous, not caring about the consequences for yourself.
5:24:32But then, today, the reveal that this Jew is a Muslim, and then the reveal tonight, of course, that, in fact, going back to it, but the invasion of Oman, the invasion of Oman, the bombing of India, just absolutely sucks these guys in to where they're in an untenable position.
5:24:52I don't know what the hell Denison said.
5:24:55And Lahore, Sir Hatch, I've talked to a lawyer, having what he said.
5:24:59Well, he said anything you do, he's with it.
5:25:01He said, I bet you went out to the bank and paid for the bond.
5:25:05No, Sir, I don't say that.
5:25:06I don't want to do that until 5.30 in the week of it, because I don't want to have him wake up.
5:25:12I don't want him to copper his speech.
5:25:14He won't.
5:25:15I want him to be tough.
5:25:17Well, he's out there this afternoon saying that the Democrats who have refused to pronounce Madam Bim's letter
5:25:25are simply a collusion with the Northeo Police.
5:25:28In other cases, they put them, basically, we get back to Lettner's, oh, generous thing, which I didn't agree with, but, you know, the party of cretins, God damn, that's the position these bastards are in, Chuck.
5:25:42We're putting them in a beautiful, that's what I mean about the drug police.
5:26:18Yeah.
5:26:57But weren't you ever pleased that we pulled a little trick on it?
5:27:02Oh, I understand.
5:27:03I think we've got, I don't know what I was saying.
5:27:07Even that son of a bitch Gallup, who is totally against Vietnam, he comes out with 47% approving the bombing and 545% against it.
5:27:20And 48 to 44% on Vietnam.
5:27:23That's great.
5:27:24I wouldn't care if it were 15% for it.
5:27:28But Gallup must have really been his time when he had to put this one out.
5:27:35What about Harris?
5:27:36Harris says you're right.
5:27:37He said that he's got a railing impact.
5:27:40I did tell you that yesterday.
5:27:44I can't wait to talk to you today because he said the impact of this is more like Cambodia, that people are railing to your side.
5:27:59This is kind of a... Do you know what time it was again?
5:28:08Bill and Harris say, you know, we're going to, incidentally, for your confidential information, I ordered for all of them to make a poll.
5:28:36But Harris, got Harris, call Harris and say, look, we're doing this.
5:28:48Okay.
5:28:49Yes, sir.
5:28:49And John, he ought to go right now.
5:28:56He's going on a field trip this week, immediately.
5:29:00What he did was he samples his pollsters.
5:29:03He goes to the people that take his polls for the various, all 11.
5:29:09And he goes to the questioners, and they're all out.
5:29:13But he's good at sensing the mood of the country.
5:29:17What does he think of the mood of the country?
5:29:21He's very strong behind you.
5:29:23He was fighting Gallup in 1947, 1944.
5:29:25They always got a load of the goddamn questions.
5:29:28My question, asking those questions in the abstract doesn't tell you anything.
5:29:33They've got to say, do you support the president's bombing of North Vietnam after the massive invasion?
5:29:40Or to defend against the invasion?
5:29:41To protect people, I can always withdraw.
5:29:43No, I don't know.
5:29:44If you ask the government, you're going to get 80% yes.
5:29:49If you ask the FBI, I don't know.
5:29:52Nobody figures it out.
5:30:50you know, the battles are going to be won and lost in Vietnam.
5:30:53That's irrelevant, because Vietnam is not going to lose.
5:30:59That's what Abrams told me then.
5:31:03So he's basically a hell of a spotter.
5:31:07The average American, yeah.
5:31:08Tell me about some other issues.
5:31:10Are we getting across the fact that, by God, you know, the bus living didn't go up?
5:31:19Yes.
5:31:19The economic...
5:31:20We've only got one bad twist on that, and that is that Grayson is starting now to kind of cover the crowd.
5:31:24Of course, that brings the market down a little bit.
5:31:29It's six points yesterday and four by the end of the day.
5:31:32It's ten points today.
5:31:34I don't mind.
5:31:36No, he'll come back.
5:31:37He's on the good side of the consumer issue.
5:31:40We're on the side of the folks that have got that market doesn't matter.
5:31:44Right.
5:31:44He'll come back.
5:31:44I think I'm a little bit scared off.
5:31:47I agree.
5:31:48Come on, I made my speech.
5:31:50I don't know.
5:31:50I think it will.
5:31:53I mean, I would suspect that Kissinger could bring the market back up and say, you know, this will... Well, the market should, they react to...
5:32:05As you know, chapter 2, about the holidays, I mean, Vietnam, all that, that's bullshit.
5:32:10All that really matters is how it all comes out.
5:32:12These people don't understand.
5:32:13Only the results that we'll get.
5:32:15The bottom line is that, you know, they're basically Jewish, and I have great respect for them, but guys like Justin and Sapphire, you know, I don't understand.
5:32:27I love them at the time.
5:32:29Marvels.
5:32:30Wonderful.
5:32:32But...
5:32:34They owe me in support.
5:32:36What's that?
5:32:42Oh, do an A.
5:32:43Well, I can do an A on that.
5:32:49Should I go and share my nap?
5:32:51Yes, sir.
5:32:51Mr. Coulson is a dove, you know.
5:32:53He thinks we ought to stop the bombing.
5:32:56What do you think?
5:32:57He's a dove.
5:32:58He's got it.
5:33:00He's got it.
5:33:01No, I don't stop.
5:33:02What do you think we should do about Vietnam?
5:33:04As far as they're still making courses inside of South Vietnam, I don't stop.
5:33:09I leave it at that.
5:33:10All right.
5:33:11All right, well, fine.
5:33:15Give me a moment.
5:33:17Manolo, go over to the press corps and get your truck.
5:33:20Your machine cannot shoot a few of those goddamn guys.
5:33:24Sir, this is a crime.
5:33:25I paid a lot of good guys.
5:33:26I got a lot of rewards.
5:33:29When you do something good on the right, if you give you kind of these guys, hell, you are really in trouble for nothing.
5:33:36Because they have no who is going to pay for what we do.
5:33:43Better react than any of the assholes.
5:33:48Arsene McCrae was so way up, way up, way up.
5:33:54I saw him all the time, you know.
5:33:58The attitudes, I think, are just great.
5:34:03Hello?
5:34:06Hello?
5:34:08Hello?
5:34:09Clark?
5:34:11I'm sorry I didn't, sitting here with Chuck Colson, I couldn't inform you, all of you, about what was going on, but I'm sure you realize that this is a hell of a, a, a fun, uh, particular segment, uh,
5:34:29The wall back here.
5:34:34We're going to tell them we're going to continue to bomb North Vietnam.
5:34:43Will that satisfy them?
5:34:45Oh, well, we're going to.
5:34:46As a matter of fact, I ordered a couple of B-52 attacks on a major installation in North Vietnam five minutes ago.
5:34:53Is that clear?
5:34:56All right.
5:35:10Church tomorrow night.
5:35:12Not going on tomorrow night.
5:35:16I'll play it in.
5:35:17It's better.
5:35:17I thought it was Thursday.
5:35:18See you tomorrow.
5:35:24That'll be good.
5:35:27Fine.
5:35:27Now don't you let your devilish friends get you out of line, okay?
5:35:33He knows all the liberals in the press, but Clark basically is a decent man, trying to do the decent thing.
5:36:01Personally, he's more of a conservative, but you must call Harris and tell him that if he's smart, he ought to go right away after my president's speech.
5:36:12It's very important.
5:36:15We ought to get the staff involved, and this is very important to us.
5:36:19Okay?
5:36:20Yes, sir.
5:36:21You saw the play that we got on the cinema here.
5:36:23Yeah.
5:36:23Oh, the cinema came last week.
5:36:25Yeah.
5:36:25Over the weekend.
5:36:26It was on TV.
5:36:27Right.
5:36:27Radio.
5:36:27Let me say, and the Gallup thing was pretty, not bad.
5:36:30Yeah.
5:36:31Considering how loaded, well, loaded, but it showed more on our side than the other side.
5:36:36But similarly, the news magazines picked up back this weekend and picked up the line of you having more public support today in the country than any president since Lake in 1953.
5:36:48He said that?
5:36:49Yes, sir.
5:36:50He said that you have a stronger, more solid public support today.
5:36:55that any president has said since I was mayor in 1953, oh boy, that must kill this son of a bitch.
5:37:01Well, of course, the kind of news we use then, because it's a hell of a lot.
5:37:03And the radio had it on Sunday.
5:37:06Oh, close to the number.
5:37:07And telling them about the Kissinger bill, about the fact that we're going to move forward with the other things.
5:37:17You know, he is... Oh, we're building this fellow up.
5:37:20He's getting more president.
5:37:21And you say the president is so pleased, you know, you've got to play it exactly, you know, not as well as this and that.
5:37:29But there are more things to come without you and hang out.
5:37:39He'll be good.
5:37:40See, he can come out in two days.
5:37:41We'll see.
5:37:43Tell Harris the same thing, but tell Harris that I put Harris in position.
5:37:48You understand?
5:37:50Gallup's going to pull right after the president's speech.
5:37:54And maybe he ought to pull.
5:37:57That's a good idea.
5:37:58I guess I'll do it.
5:38:38You know, to lose to a Muskie, I, Christ, if there's any way McGovern could win Pennsylvania, it'd be a horrible little thing.
5:38:47Yeah, uh, Pennsylvania.
5:38:48No, no, no.
5:38:48Muskie.
5:38:49Muskie has got to win Pennsylvania.
5:38:51Muskie.
5:38:52He's got to keep Muskie alive.
5:38:53He's over there if he doesn't.
5:38:55And I don't think he's at all.
5:38:58Well, do what you can.
5:39:00Give Rizzo a call or anybody else.
5:39:01Muskie's the only one making supporters.
5:39:05Okay?
5:39:10It would be fun to keep these bastards off voluntarily.
5:39:14You know, let the children do the power of the weapons.
5:39:17Because there needs to be something of interest.
5:39:19I thought I was sitting up at Camp David, you know, worrying about all this stuff.
5:39:23I got to hear Kissinger and Monaco talking to the president.
5:39:28The president was stopping around.
5:39:30The guy in the marching corps does an editorial this morning saying we need something of the summit.
5:39:35And Kissinger's just been there.
5:39:36That's what's up.
5:39:37Well, they have to take a lot of gas out of them.
5:39:39And that's given our people a hell of a life.
5:39:43This news today is flat.
5:39:44Yes, sir.
5:39:45I talked to Matt Dole.
5:39:46He said, Jesus, isn't that great?
5:39:47And I said, what do you mean?
5:39:49He said, well, it's encouraging.
5:39:52It's encouraging.
5:39:54We think we're going to get the goddamn world over.
5:39:59That's right.
5:39:59It's encouraging.
5:40:02That's what we're playing for.
5:40:03It's a big game.
5:40:05Now, if the North Vietnamese play a hard line in the second, you should know that three, six days away, I'm going to bomb.
5:40:15Not that I'm from the U.S., but I'm going to bomb those bastards into a bookend.
5:40:23It's all the way from there.
5:40:24And the people will back you.
5:40:27Absolutely.
5:40:27I think the thing that is so important, Mr. President, is that your support has changed
5:40:35since January 25th.
5:40:35When you told the Argentine people all the things you've been doing to try to get peace, all the things you've been trying to do through negotiations, your credibility went very high.
5:40:49Because people said, you've been trying.
5:40:50The only option is to leave all the other things happening and all the rest.
5:40:56That's all right.
5:40:57But given this border crisis, you see, this...
5:40:59They'll know I've gone the extra mile, huh?
5:41:02Everything passes with a stick of peace.
5:41:04And that...
5:41:05That gives them the kind of confidence to finally stand behind you when you bomb, because they know this man isn't bombing because he's angry, which is like a jackass Scotty resting on a sheet.
5:41:18He's bombing because it's intestinal.
5:41:20You're never going to see bombing like you've seen.
5:41:25I mean, wait until the case handouts.
5:41:38Those sons of bitches don't agree to something bad.
5:41:44We're going to get a talk.
5:41:47As I said to Kissinger last week, I'm glad that I'm the domestic carrier and not the national security, because I would go hard to lie to him.
5:41:54It was very hard on him.
5:41:54Kissinger really gave me the impression that I had all the quarter on him.
5:42:01It was great.
5:42:04Tell me about the other things.
5:42:06How's finding each other?
5:42:09I think we're going to get him out on the floor.
5:42:10And there'll be a hell of a thought, Mr. President.
5:42:15It looks like he's going to tell us to keep him turned.
5:42:18I know, Mr. President, it's a little less than 50-50.
5:42:23I think he's a professional.
5:42:26Well, it's been doing this, you know, we've attacked, and we want to get Percy out of law.
5:42:33We've got some real heat on Percy.
5:42:36Well, I don't know whether we'll turn him around, but it would be a funny impression.
5:42:42The problem is that Kennedy has decided to make this a personal crusade, and he will leave possibly enough senators to be able to just keep the debate going.
5:42:58And why not all that?
5:42:59No, he may overplay his hand.
5:43:02He won't let him play his hand.
5:43:03He'll overplay it.
5:43:04The line needs to be a marker at that point.
5:43:10He's got a couple of sharp, sharp dudes.
5:43:13And they're now probing around for some finals, which is part of what they have.
5:43:20They're up for the finals there at the SEC in this case.
5:43:24Oh, no.
5:43:25I've got him set up.
5:43:29He's great.
5:43:30He's tough.
5:43:32He's not going to be pushed around.
5:44:37American people like secrecy to have accomplished the result.
5:44:40Kissinger hailed that as his briefing today, beautifully.
5:44:43He said, I was at Camp David yesterday, referring to the president.
5:44:47It was agreed by both governments that we could do much more if we did it in secrecy.
5:44:50And that's how we did it.
5:44:52And people expected us to break.
5:44:54In fact, they wanted to hear the briefing.
5:44:56Kissinger, going off the musket, a juror person, we said, hold that.
5:45:03I couldn't tell him.
5:45:05But we had to do it.
5:45:06These bastards in the press, these lazy bastards, they should have thought it over, huh?
5:45:12Yeah.
5:45:12I figured that somebody had, you know, I didn't think it was Moscow, I'm sure you have.
5:45:16I mean, all those parents are, it's fine.
5:45:18Anybody else?
5:45:19I'm sure he was in Paris, you know, he obviously didn't agree to work there.
5:45:24I can't imagine, you know, one of these presidents, and I'm speculating, his history with the campaign, because it was a long period.
5:45:34Well, of course.
5:45:35He was there, but only on Monday.
5:45:39But it was so... kind of thing that I would have expected Cal to say.
5:47:19Washington Post is in a bad position.
5:47:26I can just be close to Moscow.
5:47:28All of them.
5:47:29They must die.
5:47:30You know, that paper is, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that,
5:47:48The whole front page, the Nixon's resolve to cooperate with Bush told me.
5:47:52That's good.
5:47:53The official says the president is ready to risk Russian grip and own the rest of the country.
5:47:56That's the company.
5:47:58That's the company.
5:47:59The Washington Post.
5:48:00The Washington Post had the same article that he used.
5:48:05The LA Times carried it right up the back.
5:48:07You don't give a shit that the Washington Post doesn't carry a great deal of power.
5:48:11Well, this one over on the country's history.
5:48:24Uh, did you talk to Kate Gray?
5:48:29Yeah, she wasn't there.
5:48:35Fine, fine.
5:48:36Let's see about 315, okay.
5:48:38Was it?
5:48:42Right.
5:48:43Fine, fine, right, right.
5:48:49Right.
5:48:51And you feel like the thing that you're seeing is okay, but what is your opinion?
5:48:56Yeah, I know, a little too heavy, but you couldn't abort that, could you?
5:49:01You couldn't do a damn thing.
5:49:08As a matter of fact, the president did.
5:49:11And we tried to press a speculation.
5:49:14Put this on the basis of a press speculation.
5:49:17Okay.
5:49:22They must be out of their goddamn minds.
5:49:29Yeah, three o'clock.
5:49:29I said I got a speech.
5:49:39Okay.
5:49:40I'm gonna let you get some rest.
5:49:48Okay, now.
5:49:50I thought it was about a half, and then I'll go on.
5:49:53Nobody will know, you know, the enormous importance over the weekend of this King Henry and the Republican Depression and all of it.
5:50:05Nobody ever knows how important it is.
5:50:12He made, he made, Henry made a very good point of the reason that he was asked whether
5:50:17He had been in touch with you over the weekend.
5:50:21Oh.
5:50:23And he said continuous communication with you.
5:50:26Absolutely.
5:50:27With dry ice and wire.
5:50:29Did he say the press was really trying to get Ed to pull the story out?
5:50:32Oh, yes.
5:50:33I've been calling all day.
5:50:36They are going out of their minds.
5:50:39Oh, the bastards missed one again.
5:50:41They're out of their minds.
5:50:43But they missed such a big one.
5:50:44Such a big one.
5:50:47Is impressed.
5:50:57May the inevitable be saved.
5:51:24He really is.
5:51:26Screw him.
5:51:27Tell your friend Crosby.
5:51:34How does he feel?
5:51:35What did he think when you told him about the Kissing Train?
5:51:39Well, he just, he got a great sense of elation.
5:51:42But the President missed it, first of all.
5:51:47And his second mistake was, Jesus, one of those Democrats in the Senate, I'd like to be watching him wriggle around the Senate.
5:51:57He said, why don't you read it on the book?
5:52:00I laid out the information.
5:52:02Because he believed, as I did, that you have an uncanny sense of timing, because this whole Vietnam thing has gone through two cycles.
5:52:15One cycle was the attack, which we carefully built along with his invasion.
5:52:26And that got him to do this incredible miscalculation by sending a... You made a mistake.
5:52:31Oh, geez.
5:52:32What?
5:52:32Did you hear what Bob Burt said a minute ago?
5:52:35No.
5:52:35No, no, no.
5:52:35Bob Burt said that he had intended to vote for an end-of-war resolution, but if you had not admitted this statement, he wasn't going to.
5:52:40Now, he said this privately to a group of senators this morning, and I assume he'll say it publicly.
5:52:49But if you had not admitted this statement, he now would not go to support an end-of-war resolution.
5:52:54Perfect.
5:52:55And now you put the court in a formal position.

Nixon, Colson & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Presidential Approval Ratings

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Also recorded on April 25, 1972

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