Nixon & Haig on Vietnam War and Military Command Structure

2:56:59I think the decision is probably right.
2:57:07Not so much because.
2:57:34The other thing that occurred to me though, Alan, is this.
2:57:38Is there a split command?
2:57:40In other words, the same kind of charge that Miami is able to charge or something.
2:57:45That's right.
2:57:46So I think I have a solution for this situation.
2:57:49I think we, I just feel it's so funny that it may be quite funny.
2:58:01I'm sure you know how much he's on the line.
2:58:05There's no question from a personal standpoint that I told him to forget this part.
2:58:11He worries much about it.
2:58:12From a personal standpoint, I told him the wrong day.
2:58:17He's a very serious and temperamental person here.
2:58:20In my view, he's greatly desperate and a jeopardizing son of a bitch.
2:58:24He's a very serious and jeopardizing son of a bitch.
2:58:28I don't understand that.
2:58:30But we're doing them thoroughly because what's more important than that is we're not losing the war.
2:58:34By that, I mean that the United States is not losing the war.
2:58:36We're still in the grave at the cost of the time keeping it on and on and on and on and on.
2:58:39With all that on the line, we can't all crack a round without having us in command.
2:58:43I would like to put the charge
2:58:58Why can't we have a Supreme Allied Commander for the Southeast Asian area?
2:59:07What I'm getting at is, what I'm getting at is this.
2:59:15I can't, if I had a little admiral, I'd take him.
2:59:19You know what I mean?
2:59:21He actually is an admiral.
2:59:25He's not there.
2:59:28He's still there.
2:59:29He'll be there until July.
2:59:32He's still there.
2:59:32In fact, he's already got a plan ready to... We've got a fake plan that started today with these... Well, now look.
2:59:40How about having him be a little admiral over there?
2:59:44How about giving him the goddamn commands?
2:59:46Me directly admiral.
2:59:47And he tells everyone what to do or can't do.
2:59:50I just want to know.
2:59:53I have more confidence in the Admiral than I have in Abrams, basically.
2:59:57I think the Admiral, actually, you know, he's got a son in the field, doesn't he?
3:00:02And he is a hard-line little son of a bitch.
3:00:05Now, I know he'll make the mining work.
3:00:08But, for example, with regard to the allocation of bombers and everything else, I want him to do it better than Abrams.
3:00:15I have no confidence in Abrams.
3:00:16But, in fact, Larry is too close to him.
3:00:18I know you respect him as a great soldier.
3:00:20I do, too.
3:00:21No, but I think he's on his course.
3:00:22That's all.
3:00:24That's true.
3:00:26But also, it's fundamentally true, isn't it?
3:00:29And we've got confirmation back.
3:00:34Oh, that's great.
3:00:35Larry, then.
3:00:35Larry, yes.
3:00:36Let me ask you something.
3:00:37Given the contrary instruction...
3:00:44Well, how do we get direct communications to them?
3:00:48Through Bunker's back channel, through Bunker.
3:00:50We had done that before yesterday's meeting.
3:00:53We told Bunker to meet with Avery and tell him his suggestions.
3:00:58Astonishing news after my trip back there.
3:01:01Recognizing we're dealing with a quantum report as important as that war.
3:01:06That isn't enough.
3:01:06I want a message to go directly to Avery.
3:01:08It's not me.
3:01:10It's science.
3:01:11It's science.
3:01:20critical, next critical three months, you are going to report it directly to me, and the pay court will be directly to me.
3:01:25In most cases, what I consider the vital to the success of our operation on this 7th of October.
3:01:42Do you understand what I mean?
3:01:45Yes, sir.
3:01:45And I will take responsibility for the Secretary of Defense when I think it's appropriate to do so.
3:01:54But I want you to report directly to me, tomorrow, to me, on matters.
3:02:00I don't want to run everything to you.
3:02:01But there are times when I want you to report it directly.
3:02:06times that I would expect him to report directly to me, the communication is to be correct through back channel, not through, not through letter, and not through the chairman of chiefs.
3:02:22I will, in my judgment, determine whether it is necessary to inform the secretary of defense.
3:02:30Do you think he can be trusted with that kind of a message?
3:02:35Yes, sir.
3:02:36Send it to him from me.
3:02:37We're going to get this straight.
3:02:43You would say, everything is on the line.
3:02:45You'd say, everything is on the line.
3:02:49There must be no slip-ups.
3:03:06Then when I get messages from him,
3:03:39What about sending that little general officer?
3:04:01No, we have two options.
3:04:03One is to pull him out and replace him.
3:04:09Do you agree with Captain?
3:04:10I think it would be more of a higher risk case.
3:04:13Okay.
3:04:13Because on my part, I know that the poor bastard's been ripped off.
3:04:18Okay, we'll do it now.
3:04:19Go ahead.
3:04:24If you put anybody over his shoulder, the man would be, especially if you take the guy in, coming on, he was totally on the line.
3:04:39It wouldn't be an incident.
3:04:41But if Al winning or losing this war, it depends upon hurting his feelings.
3:04:45I don't know where that is coming from.
3:04:49What about him?
3:04:50Should we pull him out?
3:04:53become that command.
3:04:54The only fear of that point of man is not him at all.
3:04:59It's the fear of the demonstration that we think that things fail.
3:05:06And if the organization fails, and if the army derives the same kind of psychological picture from it, I feel far less likely to do it after you've done what you've done.
3:05:18You can do this first, or I can do it now.
3:05:20I meant, though, that after I've executed this plan, taken this bold move, I just feel then that I've...
3:05:27The sooner he's out of there, the better.
3:05:29The sooner he's out of there, the better.
3:05:34I've been in that headquarters enough times now to know that he is a strong personality.
3:05:41He dominates that command.
3:05:44He's not just a commander.
3:05:48He's a leader.
3:05:49Charismatic, a leader.
3:05:53And if he's pulled out of the meeting, we're going to have a kind of convulsion.
3:05:58I wonder how strong this guy could tell.
3:06:00All right, now, my point is, after we ordered the blockade, do you think we could do it?
3:06:06And that would be far more manageable.
3:06:10How would it be more manageable?
3:06:12Well, be more manageable.
3:06:13But only if we get a very strong man to replace him.
3:06:16Well, can that little guy do it?
3:06:18I don't know whether he's all that impressed.
3:06:22He may adapt to a division commander with a division commander.
3:06:25Yes, I'm sorry.
3:06:26He doesn't work well with our movement.
3:06:29We don't have any troops to fight in our own.
3:06:36He's a great tactician and a great, uh, big man.
3:06:37We need a man that can work the queue over and work the end of the line.
3:06:41And I don't know if any of that is happening.
3:06:52He's a very intelligent, thoughtful man.
3:06:56He's totally concerned about his work.
3:06:59He's known to worry some time and talk to him all through this.
3:07:05Is he with us, totally, ideologically?
3:07:09What's his present rank?
3:07:12He's already got one.
3:07:20Well, couldn't we bring Abrams back in his position for switching?
3:07:26No, couldn't we do that?
3:07:31Because Abrams is head of his job.
3:07:33So, we have to absorb Abrams, and the only way she can absorb him is in that chief's office.
3:07:39As a chief of staff.
3:07:41How about bringing back your device?
3:07:42Having in mind the fact that it's the overall thing now.
3:07:49You understand?
3:07:50Not just the area commander.
3:07:52It's the overall department.
3:07:58You got my client?
3:07:58Yes, sir.
3:07:59I'm going to bring him right back here.
3:08:01He's right here in the president's office.
3:08:03And then, naturally, we'll...
3:08:06He'll be back in Vietnam.
3:08:14Because we had to have one theater.
3:08:17You see, you see, I'm getting back to my Supreme Commander now.
3:08:23Now, think this through.
3:08:24Since it is basically our inductive, you can't think in terms of, well, one theater against another.
3:08:30You know, I, in our opinion, said he was goddamn good at playing those various theater problems against each other.
3:08:33Yeah, he made a few mistakes, too.
3:08:37But at the present time, I just can't do it this other way.
3:08:39You know what I'm saying?
3:08:42The assets have all got to be used for one purpose, right?
3:08:46Correct.
3:08:47How would it be to bring Abrams back?
3:08:51What could we call it?
3:08:53Southeast Asia.
3:09:06So the decisions we made then, we worked all the way through.
3:09:15Then we had about 100 layers.
3:09:16So we've got to get them out of some options there.
3:09:26So we've got to get them out of there.
3:09:28The other alternative is to just fall down.
3:09:42We got an ambassadorship over to get the passengers staying.
3:09:49All right.
3:10:14Can you say that his wife is sick or something about his wife?
3:10:28No, we don't need that.
3:10:28Why don't we just pull him out?
3:10:30Do you think Palmer is the best man to succeed?
3:10:34Yes, I've got a little bit of a list of all the possibilities, but I assume he's the most in tune to what has to be done.
3:10:45We've worked closely with a little Adler.
3:10:46A little Adler.
3:10:47But you do have confidence in him?
3:10:49You don't.
3:10:49I don't have much confidence in him.
3:10:51It's hard, but he's great.
3:10:52I see.
3:10:57Then we've got to decide this from here now.
3:11:01You see, my point is, who the hell is the commander then?
3:11:04Who else is going to run this damn thing?
3:11:05This coordinated with the bow, for example, when you determine, are you going to use your air power in a way, or are you going to use it to take out the dam in North Vietnam?
3:11:16God damn it, that should not be done in a half-assed way, where two commanders send in different things.
3:11:20You see my point?
3:11:23Yes, I do.
3:11:23And the real difficulty is a guy sitting in Hawaii, truculent.
3:11:30It's difficult for him.
3:11:33It's difficult because... Can't we send a Supreme Commander out there?
3:11:36That's my question.
3:11:37Why haven't we?
3:11:38Why not send Palmer out?
3:11:40Is he rank average?
3:11:41No.
3:11:42No, in effect, in effect, the way this thing is evolved, you know,
3:11:49I don't want to stop this business of the two theaters competing with each other.
3:11:59And I don't want it to be from Hawaii.
3:12:02Do you agree?
3:12:04Could Palmer do that, John?
3:12:15With the Navy so deeply involved, we should upgrade the Navy man, whoever he is, who's on the apron staff, who is he?
3:12:23How could a man with a rear ammo, he's being changed.
3:12:27I want to look into that replacement.
3:12:31I want to see that.
3:12:31I want the balls out, son of a bitch, there is.
3:12:42The air force reported quite well.
3:12:45Do you think it's been picking up a little?
3:12:51Yes, sir.
3:12:54You're not kidding, are you?
3:12:56No, no.
3:12:56They knocked down 16 tanks this morning.
3:12:58A little attack up in the north corner.
3:13:01They've got them ready to be used.
3:13:12They were reported yesterday, 40 or 50 of them, moving towards Wake.
3:13:18When they attacked this morning, they attacked them about 20, and they knocked down almost all of them.
3:13:26And they put massive D-52s here.
3:13:33They carried out that order yesterday?
3:13:36Yes, sir.
3:13:42and they haven't come forward yet.
3:13:43Yeah, they know nothing yet, I understand that.
3:13:46But they, but they massed them in the Ishal Valley in the same concept that you described as they came in closer.
3:13:50They just didn't bring that, that curtain.
3:13:54I think that that's, it's paying off.
3:14:00But we're in a quiet period.
3:14:02It would be deceptive.
3:14:05Oh, it's a lull aboard the star.
3:14:07You mean they're getting ready to jump off of that?
3:14:15Well, they don't have the assets down there.
3:14:17No, but they're getting there.
3:14:20In fact, they're getting there very hard because they're trying to break that tough nut.
3:14:24Not the regular one, but the sound of that nut.
3:14:27And they put what we could do to go into the way area, went in there, and just put there.
3:14:33Yes, sir.
3:14:34And he did.
3:14:39And he did.
3:14:44You have to be prepared way better.
3:14:45Very much so.
3:14:46And I think most people who die, I don't think that'll be a terrible thing to set back.
3:14:51Way, way, way has become a great psychological reaction.
3:14:53You can't use it.
3:14:53You can't use it.
3:14:54Trust it.
3:14:55Pick it up.
3:14:55And it's the right way to do it.
3:15:12He was up there yesterday.
3:15:17He did well, he said.
3:15:20He did well, and the order's been established.
3:15:24The little general's... Is that little jackal shooting him up?
3:15:30Yeah.
3:15:30He's in charge.
3:15:31That's your jackal, who?
3:15:33Well, who was working for us.
3:15:34This is Herman from the forecourt.
3:15:37Okay.
3:15:45How about the little operation of getting 2 to 3,000 to end up with a landing?
3:15:57I agree.
3:15:57I just have a feeling that that's not going to seem important.
3:16:01It could, but it doesn't draw.
3:16:03First, it's the idea, but it couldn't draw.
3:16:05It would scare them off a little.
3:16:10I agree.
3:16:11Now, what they're doing now, sir, is...
3:16:21I'd say, too,
3:16:51I don't know.
3:16:51You know, they don't even have to be that good.
3:16:53God damn it.
3:16:54There's a helicopter.
3:16:55Drop them on the beach, give them enough fire that you can shoot up a place and hop back out of the train.
3:17:01Just knock that couple down.
3:17:04Why not blow up a helicopter?
3:17:05Well, this is what.
3:17:11Landing boats are, from my recollection, are rather difficult, aren't they?
3:17:17Our marines practice all the time over there, and we're often good at it, although that tricks us up a little bit.
3:17:24We need to watch more of those boats, and we're driving around in them since then, because we're running our M50s Marine Force, the 3000, north through just north of Don Juan, and that's going to be a thing.
3:17:36And we said, we'll make a run up there, we're going to prep the beach for artillery and air.
3:17:42run around a little bit, and that'll draw a few birds.
3:17:46And you may keep them nervous in the meantime, and they'll disappear, and they'll think, well, there's another one of us pulling out the ridge, and then we'll fall into the river.
3:17:57And I think that's going to keep them nervous between now and the turn, and we can do the rest.
3:18:04But they need, on the place we can get a battalion, or two battalions, or something tough enough,
3:18:20Raven, the announcement of the blockade will not have a dramatic effect on South Carolina.
3:18:26Well, it could be almost crucial.
3:18:31But not the blockade so much as the market.
3:18:42When I think about it, I mean blockade, mining, and bombing.
3:18:47Oh, everything.
3:18:48Everything.
3:18:48You understand that.
3:18:50We have made a decision to build the road.
3:18:51And when I make a decision like that, we don't shit around.
3:18:55We're going to mine and blockade everything else.
3:18:58So I just can't conceive of that doing anything like that.
3:19:11I want to get some figures.
3:19:33So they put it this way.
3:19:35Over the last year, I'm speaking now of the blockade, over the last year, it is estimated that flying heavy tanks, flying heavy guns, 14 big rounds of ammunition came in through the counterparty bombs.
3:19:50See what I mean?
3:19:50This is the sense I'm going to work on this future.
3:20:03Now, the other thing is, I have an estimate of how many civilians have been killed already at their attack.
3:20:10So, would you say it's around 50,000?
3:20:13No, I don't think that's a lot.
3:20:18I'd say 10,000.
3:20:18Okay, that's very conservative.
3:20:20Not too conservative.
3:20:22So, you're claiming a crime.
3:20:23You're saying you may have lost a woman.
3:20:25That's the estimate.
3:20:26One every, what's the rate?
3:20:31See, they haven't hit too many proctored centers, so...
3:20:33I'd say 10,000 would be the best.
3:20:40Why don't we just say there's some dead people coming down?
3:20:46Make a knot on the high side.
3:20:47Like, they don't get killed.
3:20:51Well, they will.
3:20:52That's just why there's the word cachings.
3:20:54The word cachings is kind of just killing them.
3:21:06What part of that is it?
3:21:10It's just air.
3:21:13There's no debate.
3:21:35Well, they're basically a counter-development of the law.
3:21:37And of course, they're all supposed to be in the sun, because before we have a whole competition, let's start a bomb.
3:21:44And there has to be some warning in the sense of getting in here.
3:21:50It's got to remind her that it's over the message, and she needs to bring it down.
3:21:55She needs to be in there.
3:22:04The only thing we can possibly consider is if they actually get off the ceasefire for a month, then we can consider them to pursue the break-in.
3:22:17But, you know what I mean?
3:22:20Then we can go on through the goddamn summer and then come back and blockade them.
3:22:29And you might be, that's the best of both possible worlds.
3:22:31You know, you get a sea spider, do the sun, then come back and blockade, and you really got a name.
3:22:36I don't know if it's going to take a good breath, but I think it's something that, after your speech, I think it will matter.
3:22:50I think that it's a reaction.
3:23:00It's very foolish of them to do it, but I don't think they've got any choice now.
3:23:03Do you think they might react by trying to put some pressure on you?
3:23:12Oh, I don't know.
3:23:17They might.
3:23:19They think they're going to win.
3:23:23They think they're going to win.
3:23:25They can't be sure.
3:23:29Oh, they are taking away.
3:23:30There isn't any question about it.
3:23:32You're convinced of them?
3:23:33Yes, sir.
3:23:33Very convinced.
3:23:35I think it's the greatest error that we've ever possibly made.
3:23:41Yeah, that's...
3:23:42I don't want to be hurting you because they're conventionally configured.
3:23:47They're good masks in the way that they have been.
3:23:50Kids don't like anything irrelevant.
3:23:53A lot of them do.
3:23:58I'm trying to get sort of out of it.
3:24:14Yes, let me tell you.
3:24:15That's fine, but you've got to get out of here.
3:24:18I've made the decision.
3:24:19I don't give a damn.
3:24:20I don't want to hear the argument.
3:24:21It's about whether it's worth doing now.
3:24:25Oh, I understand.
3:24:26I know it's risky.
3:24:27I know it may.
3:24:29But let me put it this way.
3:24:31I know bombing won't do it.
3:24:35I know that.
3:24:36I, uh...
3:24:37I'm not sure of this one yet, but I think this has a chance.
3:24:43Just as simple as that.
3:24:45I had one point, sir, I don't know what it is.
3:24:49But I think we should consider it.
3:24:58Three guys today over the fence.
3:25:00We talked about it.
3:25:01They may have to land.
3:25:02I wish they had.
3:25:03So they may have to land if we have any staff.
3:25:05American Administrative Personnel.
3:25:08Get them out.
3:25:09Of course, every day is raining for a week now in this room.
3:25:15And various forces have floated there.
3:25:18So they're on the line after we do this.
3:25:34Yeah.
3:25:34Yeah.
3:26:07Extracting, protecting American lives, not to get involved, to get involved, and more than that.
3:26:13Psychologically.
3:26:15Put it down.
3:26:18I love it.
3:26:27Providedly ordered, Mr. Ryan, I would say I am not ordered.
3:26:28I have said that there will be no Marine ground forces involved in this.
3:26:33There will not be.
3:26:33On the other hand, it is my responsibility to protect the Americans who are still there.
3:26:36And it is my now determined and formal protection to be required.
3:26:39Since most of them are non-combat personnel, it is required that I order the Marine to leave Okinawa, to Vietnam, for the purpose of protecting them and ensuring their safety.
3:26:55That's just, you know, what we have to, what I have to look at is to ask the order to check and live and whether it can be figured, figured in such a way, maybe not the whole division, maybe the right, but just enough to make those bastards think we've just made more than enough money on that bomb or that, uh, damn disconcerting of a country to destroy itself and trade it for us.
3:27:21We've been held a lot, if we put a rate in first,
3:27:28This is going to be sure that we have it.
3:27:30It's about the end.
3:27:31That's about the end of the line.
3:27:32Put it in.
3:27:34I'm concerned.
3:27:35That's the blockade it's going to be.
3:27:41We have to wait three days before we bomb.
3:27:43Or you can hit the railroad right away.
3:27:46We can do the other bomb.
3:28:00And I don't know, but that's great.
3:28:01I just like to put them off in the end of the week, and I like to put the docks on them.
3:28:05That's the one part that's really, the mouthwatering on a general purpose.
3:28:14You get a lot of supplies in the dock, too.
3:28:17Supplies are sitting there with warehouses all around them.
3:28:29When I think I'm getting the hell out of there, when they announce the blockade, when I think they're only going to close for four years, it's going to make me crank it up.
3:28:43It's going to make me crank it up.
3:28:45People are starting to speculate what's coming.
3:28:48I know you.
3:28:49I know you're thinking about something tonight.
3:28:53And if you don't think that's it, I don't think that's it.
3:28:58These things go on.
3:29:04Could you hit that something?
3:29:11Everybody's aware of this.
3:29:13I want this done.
3:29:17If you could do it.
3:29:22Chairman early.
3:29:24Oh, he's...
3:29:28I've always thought he was, but I just can't tell.
3:29:31I don't know anymore.
3:29:32I don't know what these guys believe anymore.
3:29:34Larry's got them all corrupted.
3:29:35No, he's not.
3:29:39Well, he has to be, God damn it.
3:29:41I know the relationship.
3:29:43But the chairman got my point that he's working for me and not the Secretary of Defense now.
3:29:47I made that point from now on.
3:29:48Your credit's before you now.
3:29:50Does he get that?
3:29:51Do you remind him that day, every day, on the hour?
3:29:54Do you do it?
3:29:54I want him to know.
3:29:56Don't you think he has to know that?
3:29:58He absolutely has to know it.
3:30:01Quite frankly, for a while, I think he did.
3:30:04But the problem is, it's layering in everybody until it's passed.
3:30:21Well, I want you to take a seat.
3:30:23I'm going to show you the house over there.
3:30:49right?
3:30:49So you have to do what's necessary to win, right?
3:30:54And this is everything.
3:30:56Well, I believe, for the better or worse, that two-winged response will be more troublesome for the country, the body volunteer, than a very strong
3:31:15Well, I'm going to put it in terms of the purpose of this action and tell the Lord this.
3:31:18This war has gone on for too many years.
3:31:22The United States, it has been from the day I entered the office, I have been trying to end it and to carry out that pledge.
3:31:31I have withdrawn a half a million American portions.
3:31:35We have reduced our cash.
3:31:38I have been restrained.
3:31:39I have made the motion.
3:31:42It offers every peace officer that is conceivable, that offers conceivably the opportunity to turn down the enemies.
3:31:50And it is now the enemy that continues the war, not the United States, not South Korea now.
3:31:57And the war must be ended.
3:31:59It is time to bring the war to an end.
3:32:01And I have decided I would prefer to bring it to an end with the negotiating table.
3:32:04And that channel is still open.
3:32:09But since the enemy refuses to negotiate, since they continue to step up the war, we now have to find another way to end it.
3:32:16And that way to end it, my opinion, is to deny the enemy the lethal weapons which they are using to kill South Vietnamese soldiers, South Vietnamese civilians, and Americans themselves.
3:32:37In other words, it's a way to end the war.
3:32:42put it on the base of that and then we'll see if we're with that in the city, Jack.
3:32:47Prisoner down.
3:32:49Well, I think the POW, the next time you or Henry meet with the POW wives, if you have any dissonance, I'd be damned surprised.
3:32:57Because we have offered to them, you can tell the wives that we've offered withdrawal to the POW this time.
3:33:02They turned it down.
3:33:03Heavenly.
3:33:04Yes, we did.
3:33:06All right.
3:33:07And so when you say that the wives this time, now the president's sick of this,
3:33:12Okay.
3:33:14Yeah.
3:33:15Yeah.
3:33:38away from this frustration.
3:33:40They will after this.
3:33:41They will after this.
3:33:43None of them can suggest anything stronger than this except nuclear weapons.
3:33:47No, that's right.
3:33:47I think you're going to get a good value of support.
3:33:53I mean, you're basing what you said about the right election conversation with the Congressmen.
3:34:11Oh, that is frustrating.
3:34:12I just didn't know how much we were doing.
3:34:13And, of course, they decided that all of us were going to have to battle to get where we were going.
3:34:17It's impossible.
3:34:18What is out there?
3:34:36Don't you, do you feel, or do you feel, the South Vietnamese now should be able to give the enemy a hell of a good scrap of wood?
3:34:42I feel more confident that way now than I did three weeks ago.
3:35:01The enemy, we didn't know where the enemy was going to get us.
3:35:07Point 3 was a polyglot defense, a very odd one, and I don't think any of us thought we pulled it, but it was really testing.
3:35:19It fell out a lot more quickly than it should have.
3:35:24But now they've got two Marines in the Marine Division and the 1st Brigade.
3:35:27That's them freed up the Marines, and they're in that training.
3:35:34Do we have tanks that are in guns?
3:35:38Do we have good artillery?
3:35:40Forty pieces of artillery, three cavalry squadrons, 100 cavalry squadrons.
3:35:44Do we have anything that can take out the enemy's big tanks if they come flying in there?
3:35:56Is that clear?
3:35:57Yes, sir, but they're not in good shape, you see.
3:36:03Is there anything you can get at that?
3:36:05I suppose you're close.
3:36:06There's nothing you can get at that would not go to Big Tank, so... No, I don't have anything there.
3:36:12Of course, I'm not sure I am in a Big Tank, but this attack this morning was 576.
3:36:16Well, there's more than that.
3:36:20There's more than that.
3:36:22There's more than that.
3:36:23Well, I'm going to get 10 Big Tanks, huh?
3:36:34They weren't a match for the Russian tanks.
3:36:38Oh, they were.
3:36:59Did they do any good while they were fighting from over there?
3:37:02That's the 20th tank attack.
3:37:03And the first two weeks was the most effective weapon they had.
3:37:08They had knocked out some of their tanks.
3:37:10They had knocked out about 50-something tanks.
3:37:17They lost three, oh, at least 300 tanks.
3:37:21So they paid a hell of a price to do that.
3:37:26Okay.
3:37:28There's a lot of tanks in today.
3:37:30We've got 10 in there.
3:37:34We, uh...
3:37:34Yes, sir?
3:37:35We probably could get the tank in.
3:37:37Only in the one, the, uh, the big, uh, C-5A aircraft.
3:37:40There might be one tank.
3:37:41One?
3:37:42Those are running back and forth from Japan.
3:37:45We've got tanks on the way out from Madison, Alabama.
3:37:49They'll be there in two weeks.
3:37:52We've got 30 of the big tanks in Japan.
3:37:58You're lying.
3:38:03How many C-5As do we have?
3:38:06One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30.
3:38:32I think they're getting a hell of a lot of work.
3:38:46I don't do it to fire these guys.
3:38:50That's another hurt.
3:39:07I got out the last of the night, and I thought I needed to get that friend of mine away with the telephone.
3:39:17Where could she have been with the gentleman?
3:39:23I haven't accepted one man or crew that I really expected his whole staff to see.
3:39:30He could tell a picture or two of Bison and Spencey and they used to all have these little guys always in handholds and they'd cry to him sometimes.
3:39:42And my pride and pride were really kicking and saying, oh yeah, we can't.
3:39:52How can you see it?
3:39:54Well, it's electronic here.
3:40:35That's the way they've been knocking off these trucks and the trail, and moving those gunships down.
3:40:43The difficult part is they couldn't use them up and on board because of the sands.
3:40:50But now, the owner of the boat just ran away.
3:40:53There are no sand turrets.
3:41:02There's no way to get the barge off there.
3:41:30We're going to be able to battle on the ground and get them out there.
3:41:41Attention.
3:42:10How about doing this?
3:42:11All right, put it down.
3:42:14Check it out.
3:42:41All right.
3:42:41I think people would support sending him into Hanoi to find our POWs.
3:42:51Go ahead.
3:43:04Why not?
3:43:07We don't know where the POWs are.
3:43:08That's one thing that always, of course, petrifies me, is that one of the P-50s is in a POW can.
3:43:12No, that's right.
3:43:18But how about sending them, how about sending them to the Marine Division?
3:43:24After we had put on the blockade, planning to push and getting our POWs.
3:43:30Do you not use that as a subterfuge to anything?
3:43:36I really mean it.
3:43:37Why wait?
3:43:38Why just blockade and wait for the sun to set?
3:43:44Go get it.
3:43:49Yeah.
3:43:49It'll help to put out a meteor that gets the head on it.
3:44:04Planted it.
3:44:06land the range, and all of it.
3:44:11Get the field ready.
3:44:13I mean, immediately after you do the docking, see what I mean?
3:44:20Yes, sir.
3:44:23Yeah.
3:44:23Yeah.
3:44:24Yeah.
3:44:25Yeah.
3:44:25Yeah.
3:44:26Yeah.
3:44:38I bet that someday there would be more of it.
3:44:42They were, I don't know.
3:44:45I mean, these towns, the fight they're looking for, they're holding in.
3:44:52It's all in its way.
3:44:54I don't know if it gets to this point, but it's after this announcement, after the bomb, I'm going to say, let's get on with it.
3:45:05It's there in the building.
3:45:07I mean, it's there.
3:45:13You might want to say that at home.
3:45:14You might want to say, if all that you're doing is assembling horses, make sure our horses are in the saddle.
3:45:18Say, let's say, if I kick the thing out, if you're healed up, I don't think you can do it.
3:45:20I don't want to do it, sure.
3:45:21I just don't want to do it.
3:45:21I'm just protecting my horses.
3:45:22I just think you're going to treat me the idea that we're going to do it anyway.
3:45:43We should put out a story, you know, we're going to hang on there.
3:46:12I know there's a lot of stuff that could be put out in my films that's just annoying, in fact.
3:46:21We've got to be brought into this in a very, very, I think we need the most heavy propaganda in this country.
3:46:28You know, it's almost as if we go by the reed and it parrots everywhere.
3:46:32This river and all the reeds all coming out of it.
3:46:38They're not boring.
3:46:41I wouldn't give us an answer.
3:46:43No, you couldn't get an answer yet.
3:46:44No.
3:47:11And if they do, we go.
3:47:16Do you agree?
3:47:18That's the workplace thing.
3:47:47Oh, my, we set this tournament very huge.
3:47:51Don't you agree?
3:47:55They don't want to pay the wine.
3:47:58No, they don't want to pay the wine.
3:48:03They just don't care about getting cheap wine.
3:48:08I don't believe it.
3:48:10I don't believe it.
3:48:12That's leverage.
3:48:13That's leverage.
3:48:23You know he's going to murder you.
3:48:25You burnish him a weapon.
3:48:26You're equally guilty.
3:48:28You know that?
3:48:29It's the law.
3:48:34You take the jacket off.
3:48:54So I got into the all-position.
3:48:59I wanted to play a cool line.
3:49:01Is that a kick to your back?
3:49:30that part of the plan
3:49:54A little animal, at least on top of mine.
3:49:58Of course, he's got a seven-feet man right before him.
3:50:01He's a sensitive, easy-going boy.
3:50:06He's got a shirt that's really long.
3:50:09He runs that place.
3:50:12He's got a lot of good credit.
3:50:17He's not as brave.
3:50:22You know, it was a shame.
3:50:23I think back to the day for Radford, we had Radford running this whole thing on our own.
3:50:28Couldn't, you know, he knew all of us.
3:50:31He was a cool, cold-eyed fish.
3:50:37He would have done it.
3:50:45I get back to this command structure again.
3:50:54They, in effect, let the probe handle that.
3:51:22You just don't think of anybody that could be commander at all.
3:51:35That's the whole point.
3:51:36That's what I want to do.
3:51:37I want to set up a new command for the whole area.
3:51:40And I don't think it should be at St. Patrick's.
3:51:43And I don't think Abrams can handle it.
3:51:46And Palmer can.
3:51:54What time to make this change in command?
3:52:01I was right after the blockade.
3:52:02All right, then I think we just have to pull a good job.
3:52:09Put Palmer in charge of a new command.
3:52:13A new command for the area.
3:52:17Well, I don't want to do this anyway.
3:52:21I've done a study.
3:52:24I don't see the results of it.
3:52:26I don't realize it all.
3:52:28You see, Laos, Cambodia, South Vietnam, North Vietnam, it's all one war.
3:52:39And it's all one era.
3:52:41Yeah.
3:52:41We need one commander.
3:52:43And that commander should be in Saigon.
3:52:46Correct.
3:52:47All right.
3:52:47We've just got to get that.
3:52:49And Henry could do that.
3:52:50If you try to work out a command structure, I'd like to be able to mount that, too.
3:52:54He's not capable of doing that whole command.
3:53:01He's too tied into the command situation.
3:53:15Well, you consider it leaving if you set up a new command.
3:53:20So you can't go downgrading, I'm sure.
3:53:22Set up, just replace it.
3:53:25You set up a new command, so you create a new job.
3:53:30General Palmer, who you see in charge, with a good Marine, with a good Navy man, a top Navy man, a top Navy man, a top Navy man who's got to be there on the ground with a naval command.
3:53:43And the top Air Force man we've got to vote, right?
3:53:46And for the whole area.
3:53:47And that's what we've got to have now.
3:53:52That's the only way this is going to work.
3:53:54Because you see, since I've made this decision, I'm just not going to have it thwarted by a half-assed command.
3:54:02We're just not going to do it.
3:54:09I was a Supreme Allied Commander for Southeast Asia, period.
3:54:27He did return anyway.
3:54:29He managed to take over New Cleveland, and we were sending Abrams to stay there and get him in there for a person so he could go kill him.
3:54:36He did come back then and make an ambassador to Spain.
3:54:43Did he take an ambassador to Spain?
3:54:48No.
3:54:48How do you know?
3:54:51He probably took it over there.
3:55:00Christ saves the world.
3:55:29No, I'm surprised that he isn't back.
3:56:03Let me turn it back down.
3:56:03You can't turn it back down.
3:56:07You're short of it.
3:56:46The command thing is terribly important.
3:56:48We've got, that's the answer to the command niche.
3:56:50How can we get to the answer?
3:56:51I mean, I'm reading today.
3:56:54Palmer's a man.
3:56:55Palmer goes out there.
3:56:59The matter of fact is he had an army back in the day.
3:57:05Sure did.
3:57:05Well, why not send those little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little,
3:57:19I don't think you can act strongly without acting totally.
3:57:29I really don't think you can.
3:57:32You don't listen to anybody.
3:57:37You don't listen to anybody.

Nixon & Haig on Vietnam War and Military Command Structure

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 5, 1972

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