Conversation 337-016

TapeTape 337StartWednesday, May 10, 1972 at 12:36 PMEndWednesday, May 10, 1972 at 1:02 PMTape start time03:01:07Tape end time03:26:49ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.;  [Unknown person(s)];  Nixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.;  [Unknown person(s)]Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On May 10, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:36 pm to 1:02 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 337-016 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 337-16

Date: May 10, 1972
Time: 12:36-1:02 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.

     Vietnam
          -Blockade
               -Melvin R. Laird
               -A press story
                     -Source
                           -John B. Connally
          -Connally
               -Confrontation with Democrats
               -Laird statement
          -North Vietnam
               -Xuan Thuy
                     -Moscow
               -Le Duc Tho
          -Soviets
               -Meeting in Paris with US official
               -Statement on US-Soviet meeting
                     -New proposals
               -Kissinger's message
                     -Tenor
          -North Vietnam offensive
               -Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
               -B-52 strikes
                     -Kontum
                     -Targets

                             (rev. Nov-01)

                  -Hue area
      -Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] analysis
            -Long Binh
      -Number of divisions
            -Quality
            -B-52 strikes
                  -Number
      -Hue
            -North Vietnamese failure to take
      -US retaliation
            -Methods
            -Damage to North Vietnam
                  -Mining
                  -Railroads
-Air strikes
      -Petroleum, Oil, and Lubricants [POL]
            -Haiphong area
      -Accuracy
      -Damage
            -Bridge
-Soviet Summit
      -Cancellation
            -Ronald L. Ziegler statement
-Blockade
      -Press reaction
      -New York Times
      -Washington Post
            -James B. (“Scotty”) Reston
                  -Motives
      -Stewart J.O. Alsop
      -Soviet Summit
            -Conally (?)
            -Cancellation
                  -Possibility
            -Soviet actions
                  -US response
                        -Vietnam
                        -Middle East
            -Agreements
                  -Conditions
      -Connally statement
            -Press reports

                                      (rev. Nov-01)

               -US stakes in Vietnam
          -North Vietnam offensive
               -Consequence of US defeat
                    -Southeast Asia
          -Blockade
               -Success

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 12:36 pm.

     Food order

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 1:02 pm.

     Vietnam
          -Blockade
                -Mobilization of Army of the Republic of Vietnam [ARVN] support
                      -Nguyen Van Thieu’s statement
          -Vietnamization policy
          -President's decision
                -Timing
                      -Election year
                            -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
          -Soviet Summit
                -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
                      -Kissinger's Georgetown friends
          -Consequences of US defeat
                -Domino Theory
                      -Thailand
          -Blockade support
                -Marshall Green
                -Malaysia
                -Cambodia
                -Australia
                -New Zealand
                -Philippines
                -Japanese

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 12:36 pm.

     A delivery

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 1:02 pm.

                                   (rev. Nov-01)

Vietnam
     -Blockade support
           -British
                 -Letter to George R.S. Baring [Earl of Cromer]
     -Summit
           -Cancellation
                 -Compared with US victory in Vietnam
                 -Future Summits
     -North Vietnam offensive
           -Consequences for US
     -President's opponents
     -North Vietnam offensive
           -People's Republic of China [PRC]
                 -Soviet Union
     -Blockade
           -Soviet Union
           -PRC
                 -Soviet Summit
                 -European Security Council
     -Soviet Summit
           -Possible postponement
                 -Kissinger’s view
     -North Vietnam offensive
           -Hue
     -Soviet Summit
           -Possible postponement
     -Press
           -Columnists
           -Kissinger's press conference
           -Laird's press conference
     -Clifford P. Case-Frank F. Church amendment
           -Provisions
                 -Effects for administration
           -Compared with Michael J. Mansfield proposal
           -Chances of passage in House
                 -Effect of polls
           -A memorandum
           -Charles W. Colson
     -Public opinion
           -Edward M. Kennedy
           -Washington Post

                                       (rev. Nov-01)

                -New York Times
                -John Kenneth Galbraith
                -Kennedy
                -Newsweek
                     -Henry Hubbard
                           -Meeting with Kissinger
                           -Meeting with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                     -Criticism of the President
           -North Vietnam offensive
                -South Vietnam defeat possibility
                     -Prisoners of war [POWs]
                -Soviet Summit
                     -President's attendance
                           -Possible public impression

     A vote on the German treaties
          -Time

     Vietnam
          -Possible South Vietnam collapse
          -Air strikes
                -An Loc
                      -Destruction
                -Kontum
                      -Casualties expected
          -Hue
                -Ground action
          -North Vietnam reserve strength
          -Peace offers
                -Negotiations
          -Kissinger’s meeting with columnists

Kissinger left at 1:02 pm.

                                       (rev. Nov-01)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah, they're good boys, huh?
That's right.
That is pretty.
Well, you take care and you take good care of yourself, okay?
All right, man.
I'll be doing that.
I heard things went very well up here.
That went very well, yeah.
And of course, the rocket car was a big deal for us.
Absolutely.
Introducing it.
Yeah, yeah.
A fine job was done.
I think that there are
The point right now is we're not going to fire the man if we can't confront him.
If we can't confront him, that would be helpful to us.
He's downstairs by there.
I'm ready to go again.
In Moscow, then there was an interesting talk today between the Russian Secretary-Chief of National Affairs and our Secretary-Chief of National Affairs.
I gave them a rip-snorting, tough speech, which was so sad that I realized they weren't going to buy anything.
And indeed, I made this proposal to put them on the line.
They weren't going to take it then, because they thought it was a good thing.
Now, when they're not there, Abrams is planning...
Yes, you really come to this service and put every piece of tissue tomorrow around that, but next day you put every piece of tissue around the front door.
Next day you put every piece of tissue around the way.
Yes, it's interesting because it's three months to get to the point where I would say, you know, it's worth three months, you know, to get to the point.
I don't know.
The only thing that happened is that we complicated a little lot more than we could do in the past.
What else did you want to change?
What the hell?
Nothing, nothing.
Exactly, Mr. President.
I mean, now that the North Korean people are moving out a little bit, they find literally hundreds of dead after they've been trying to handle this.
I believe that North Korea, if they don't take the wedge next month, I do not see how they can take this.
Oh, they've never, I mean, they had to take either bombing or the flight on the ground.
They've never had to take both, I understand you, but on top of that mining.
No, no, it doesn't give them, they had to get the picture to make sure the bomb, supposedly it's more accurate because it operates like a television thing, and apparently the television picture shows that they hit the bridge several times, but they have no confirmation other than that bomb, then what that guidance is that the bomb has to do.
in front of me.
I don't, I didn't realize that there should be a lot more space.
And I didn't realize that there was so much space.
Thank you for your comments.
Thank you for your comments.
And we didn't, I mean, except for the New York Times, of course, that sort of thing, which was inevitable.
You had a pretty good call to progress to that.
I mean, not a supported one, but one that is actually
peace officer
Yeah, it's a 25% chance that the dust would still come back and stay alive, and you would get beat up.
And, of course, that should happen.
I think that it would be important to do that.
I think that it would be important to do that.
But we can't, as a Russian, resort to a vague microcosm as one of our allies.
We can't, as a Russian, resort to a vague microcosm as one of our allies.
We can't, as a Russian, build enough, potentially, that one of our allies ends in nothing.
Ends in nothing.
Ends in nothing.
And, Mr. President, our agreement, we are planning for December.
are good agreements to be made by strong captains, but not by one who puts something down to start the invasion by them, and whenever the last person wants to do it.
That wasn't the dilemma at the time.
I'm certain the last person who followed the line was not the answer to my question.
That, now that I've heard that comment, you know, when he saw something, he wanted to see it.
It would have been the right thing to do if he didn't, not to be the answer to my question.
The thing really comes down to what you say.
I don't think this was the thing.
Don't you have a better feeling about that?
Oh, yeah, because up to now, these Vietnamese commanders were wondering, maybe the thing is going to go, maybe the Americans are going to leave.
Secretary Chu has just declared a state of master development today.
He's mobilizing.
We've got to enable that all army units are going to be brought up to full strength.
When you've now got a finance spirit, there is a good chance that they will track the D.C. infrastructure in this outbound.
I think that this map will cycle out to Johor anyway.
And we have to remember, to us, the immunization was a good policy for us,
Assuredly, no one, if you get re-elected, nobody should admire who was given the second term.
You have proved that.
If you're willing to do this in May of an election year, you just can't be trifled with.
This is why we needed it again today, and this is why on Monday it got filed.
And he did.
And nevertheless, I came out on the side of doing it, even though, you know, all personal attendants would ride out this year at the Gloria and the Moscow Sunday.
I kept this all in agreement, all of which all my Georgetown friends would have put a babble around the cocktail service for three years on that stuff, you know.
But we had to do the other one.
And though it's the last day,
every month is fine
They all agreed to come down and I said, you mustn't be concerned about the real rights of some of them if they can't do it.
Because, because basically we have to remember that, well, I don't think there's a point in pressing the jump on a gentleman's brain.
Fix it.
Fix it.
And then he went here.
He'll be back.
He'll be back.
The president from a historical point of view,
It won't help me so much next year.
Yeah.
But if you told us all about this, we wouldn't do that.
I don't know.
They're not going to get involved.
They can't break the blockade front, because they don't have the nation's trust.
If they want to break it by sending in large supplies, they need the Chinese.
Therefore, they are reducing their resources in order to put the Chinese back into charge.
That isn't a solution.
That can't be a direction.
So they have a hell of a network.
All of that, they have to give up.
They've done it with you, Robert,
As far as we're participating in it, I think it's going to go.
Probably the commercial credit.
Therefore, I still think what I think they'll do is put the phone aside.
You couldn't be abusive, and we scheduled it to help you.
It was the most modern way.
And you stood, and I was in that box.
And I worked perfectly compared to people in the ranch way.
You've made all your points in your press conference.
I think actually the other side is a bit known because the combination of your speech, my press conference, Laird, whatever Laird is going to say, we're in good shape and even that Kate Church amendment isn't so bad for us because it says we'll withdraw four months after the prisoners are released.
Or we have to do that.
We should go that route.
I saw a memo that was handed out to each department, that they should send their assistant secretaries across the country to push this.
I don't think we need that now, because we'll be able to share it.
Nice.
I mean, they want you to be, but the only way you can keep the post the New York Times have is to carry out Galbraith or Kennedy policies.
And then they'll oppose you anyway in October.
Oh, they won't.
Mr. President, if you read Newsweek this week, then you will see where we would have been had we done nothing.
Newsweek has half of its book
If they now say that mining is a disaster for the newsreaders, that's no news.
If it, thank you, would have had a whole summer of one big leader after another featured in every magazine of this country.
This way, one way or the other, there's basically only one way they're going to know.
This way, this way, I mean, you see, the worst of all times is having something go and then, and then it means collapse, but at least then, we get the V-O-W, the last word, something.
But if you would have looked...
and being in Moscow when all of this was going on.
And now you can go to Moscow to put your sister back in.
But it's interesting that they already have been quiet for two days, even though the German treaty was.
The German treaty is done now.
Today was the day that the last vote.
You don't know what the vote is on.
But having said that, we may get into a situation of collapse.
I'm not sure now.
We don't.
And every week makes .
It is just not possible.
Now, tomorrow at 375, all around that line.
There's got to be 1,000 .
There just can't be anybody.
They've got two divisions around that line.
They just cannot see that 4,000 have been found.
I'm going to kill that many people.
They may just track, then the next day it comes to, it's going to be another 500 to 1,000.
They'll hit something there, or they're a mantle out of there.
The way, the way, well, the way, there, you see that on the ground, it's going to hurt a lot.
It's a pretty good outfit to fight there.
But, you see, the other one is too, it's going to hurt.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.