Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 339-004
Date: Monday, May 15, 1972 at 7:42 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); [Unknown person(s)]; Colson, Charles W.; White House operator; Clawson, Kenneth W.; Kleindienst, Richard G.; Connally, John B.; Connally, Idanell (Brill) (Nellie)
Recording device: Old Executive Office Building
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/339-004

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[1:42:37] Bob, is there?
[1:42:41] I'm going to call in Peter Lawson or somebody who did something to the effect that the first report of the interrogation indicated that a Beller, a Kennedy person did what he did.
[1:43:03] Everything's going to, rumors are going to flow all over the place.
[1:43:06] Put it on the left right away.
[1:43:07] Can you do that?
[1:43:10] Who can you put it to and how can it get out?
[1:43:14] Okay.
[1:43:15] Must get out fast before they pin this on the right wing.
[1:43:22] Yeah.
[1:43:24] What do you have?
[1:43:26] Chuck?
[1:43:30] Chuck?
[1:43:38] But he's the one to do it.
[1:43:48] Lukacs says he's still in surgery.
[1:43:52] But one bullet.
[1:43:55] That's the problem.
[1:43:56] It went through both walls of his stomach.
[1:44:02] I think it fell back.
[1:44:04] No, I'm sorry.
[1:44:05] One ball went through both balls of the stomach, brushed by the kidney, hit no other vital organs.
[1:44:10] Liver is okay, you're right.
[1:44:11] It's not hurt his liver.
[1:44:13] It's lies close to the spinal cord.
[1:44:16] They can't, they don't have it yet.
[1:44:18] The x-ray shows it's close to the spinal cord, not in a vital area, according to the x-ray.
[1:44:24] He can't feel any pain from the spine down.
[1:44:27] The root care says you can't assume anything of that.
[1:44:30] That could be a shocker at this point rather than anything else.
[1:44:34] And they don't really know whether he's paralyzed or not.
[1:44:37] He's back.
[1:44:38] He's taken five or six units of blood.
[1:44:41] He looks reasonably good.
[1:44:42] He says the outlook is reasonably good because there is nothing that isn't.
[1:44:47] There's nothing they can find that is preferable.
[1:44:52] And he's 38.
[1:44:53] He's 33.
[1:44:54] What about getting out the idea, before the right wing, or the left wing, or the right wing, of a government supporter, or a government candidate supporter, or a candidate supporter?
[1:45:17] Well, I said that, I just said to Mark, though, this guy's a man out there now, you know, behind us.
[1:45:23] has taken over the case completely from anybody else.
[1:45:27] I said to Mark that I had just heard from my office that there was some rumors to this event.
[1:45:34] We checked that first night when they started questioning.
[1:45:38] They went into that immediately.
[1:45:41] to get to somebody.
[1:45:44] You can't defend the equity of the house.
[1:45:47] We don't have to receive that report from over at the hospital.
[1:45:52] Get the defendant report.
[1:45:54] Get a report to Clawson.
[1:45:59] That he said he supported Kennedy and McGovern.
[1:46:04] Yes.
[1:46:06] You see that?
[1:46:11] Of course, he's convinced us he's the one who called the University of San Diego to tell him that.
[1:46:25] But in other words, let me say that they think that he's going to retire now, huh?
[1:46:32] Or that I should.
[1:46:37] No, no, we'll catch this.
[1:46:39] Well, he says we're still on surgery, so we can't be sure.
[1:46:42] And they haven't actually got the bullet yet, so they don't know exactly where it is.
[1:46:47] The x-ray shows it was here in the spinal cord and not in the bladder.
[1:46:51] It didn't hit the liver.
[1:46:53] It did not hit the liver.
[1:46:56] All right, but suppose this now comes out of his chest.
[1:46:59] How do you see it?
[1:47:00] It can't be.
[1:47:00] You get a great emotional level for a moment.
[1:47:08] If it's about his right, the more I think about this person, that it will scare people.
[1:47:13] That this man could be subject to an assassination attempt.
[1:47:20] He obviously is around.
[1:47:21] He'll get some of these birds.
[1:47:23] But it will frighten people after the first wave of sin.
[1:47:28] Be sure to pin the assassination.
[1:47:30] Just try to pin the assassination.
[1:47:32] Look, we play the game of the smart group, Jim.
[1:47:36] They have pinned the assassination of Kennedy on the right wing, the virtues.
[1:47:40] It was done by a communist.
[1:47:42] And it was the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated.
[1:47:47] Can I respectfully suggest, can we pin this on one of theirs?
[1:47:52] Don't you agree, Bob?
[1:47:52] Sure.
[1:47:53] We know Donald Trump is going to move the story in a hurry, but so is the student.
[1:47:56] Right.
[1:47:57] He's a revolutionary.
[1:48:00] That's easy.
[1:48:00] He's still going to be worried about that.
[1:48:02] He's 21 years old now.
[1:48:04] I wouldn't say he was a supporter.
[1:48:07] Just say he was a supporter of McGovern and Kennedy.
[1:48:11] Just put that out.
[1:48:12] Just say you have it on unmistakable evidence.
[1:48:16] They've got to release the rest of them.
[1:48:17] I said there ought to be a record on it.
[1:48:20] Screw the record.
[1:48:21] Just say he was a supporter of that and that and put it out.
[1:48:24] Just say we have an authenticator reporter in charge.
[1:48:30] The thing is, tell your man, Rossum,
[1:48:33] This is a hot tip, and give it to somebody who's a friend.
[1:48:37] I'm a friend?
[1:48:39] Yes, I do.
[1:48:39] Okay.
[1:48:43] Bob, the moment you get out of the business of whether to communicate it or not, you're dead.
[1:48:48] What about Bob?
[1:48:49] I don't know what I'm thinking.
[1:48:50] I'm just trying to get to that.
[1:48:52] Well, I hope you try to get me.
[1:48:53] Eric, we've got you.
[1:48:53] Don't worry too much about that.
[1:48:55] Yep, they've got his identity now, so we ought to be able to find out something about him.
[1:49:05] Oh, bad shot.
[1:49:29] Thirty-five shots, thirty-eight.
[1:49:31] Thirty-eight's a pretty good gun, isn't it?
[1:49:32] I don't know nothing about it, but it's a big gun.
[1:49:35] Thirty-eight would kill people, kind of.
[1:49:37] Twenty-two would kill people.
[1:49:40] Yeah, I know it hits.
[1:49:41] You've got to hit it pretty straight.
[1:49:47] Thirty-eight, though, was a hell of a gun.
[1:49:50] I had a .45, a Navy, I didn't have any shots of that, except for the .30 caliber, your usual...
[1:49:58] I really thought Kamaleo was very good in this sort of, you know, he's good at the immediate things, isn't he?
[1:50:31] Okay, yeah.
[1:50:34] Hello, yeah.
[1:50:39] Right, Mark Bell just called and said that.
[1:50:43] And that no one will unless they've got control over the thing.
[1:50:47] He's got a question tonight, tonight, tonight, tonight.
[1:51:16] OK.
[1:51:58] Yep.
[1:51:58] Okay.
[1:51:59] What he's saying is the same thing.
[1:52:02] He's confirming that no one's talked to him enough about anyone having him.
[1:52:08] As soon as he's fighting the prairies, as soon as he's able to talk, they will get him.
[1:52:13] No, but they're good.
[1:52:15] It's not like they're... One of the concerns is to let the press or the local police or somebody else get him, to get him worried about him.
[1:52:24] We don't have any control over him.
[1:52:27] You sell it to him?
[1:52:28] No, I don't.
[1:52:28] You sell it to this fellow?
[1:52:30] Of course.
[1:52:31] Of course he's a student.
[1:52:33] And I said, of course he's from Wisconsin, and he worked in McGovern's school.
[1:52:36] That's what we're doing.
[1:52:37] Okay.
[1:52:38] I said, I'm sure he doesn't.
[1:52:39] He doesn't.
[1:52:40] He doesn't.
[1:52:41] You don't have to sell, do you?
[1:52:42] He's having a good time.
[1:52:43] Oh, yeah, he does.
[1:52:45] He's a hard rock student.
[1:52:50] But you know what?
[1:52:51] I'm going to.
[1:52:54] The Children's Brigade is going to blame us for stirring up the country about the bustling in Iraq.
[1:52:58] We're responsible for this whole goddamn thing, what do you think about me?
[1:53:04] There'll be two lines, Mr. President.
[1:53:08] One is, why should our country sit and, oh yeah, Hawaii is, and we have a full strategy together.
[1:53:15] That was the instant the government reaction.
[1:53:18] Apparently today.
[1:53:18] He's already said what a terrible night, but it's just an indication of what a sick country this is.
[1:53:29] The other line will be that I'm delighted this is a 38, because this guy is not.
[1:53:35] 38ers, they don't buy those.
[1:53:36] It's not a Saturday night special.
[1:53:38] Anybody who went out and bought a 38er.
[1:53:39] I think I did the right thing to call Conley in order for Kennedy to be protected.
[1:53:44] Kennedy was so bad.
[1:53:44] The mask was ruined.
[1:53:50] I think we, I think as far as Wallace and I, he's going to think we're all in our 40s.
[1:53:56] You think he's really frightened personally?
[1:53:59] Yeah.
[1:53:59] Any man who carries around the personal security that he missed has been frightened from the beginning.
[1:54:04] He knows he's got to be on the web.
[1:54:07] He can't whip up the information.
[1:54:08] I think he is, but that's just a thought.
[1:54:10] I mean, that's not a thought.
[1:54:13] He carries the person's security around him to build up the excitement just like this.
[1:54:16] But he also, as Bob, he's got to have in the back of his mind that Huey Long was shot there.
[1:54:20] Same kind of person.
[1:54:21] Then you don't carry around that steel building.
[1:54:25] I don't carry around a lot of state buildings for a man.
[1:54:28] Not that building.
[1:54:29] Once you're running that ground, he's right in there in the building.
[1:54:35] I saw him in the building.
[1:54:36] Who else was in the ground?
[1:54:39] Boss.
[1:54:39] He just walked off.
[1:54:41] Just walked off the place and walked down.
[1:54:42] Well, not one thing I want to tell you.
[1:54:43] Secret service is not going to be helped on me when I grow up.
[1:54:45] I've got to take the risk.
[1:54:45] I've got to do it.
[1:54:45] I must not be afraid.
[1:54:46] We have to connect.
[1:54:46] We must not fear, be afraid, or be...
[1:54:47] Yes, sir?
[1:54:47] Otherwise, I should resign and go to a government
[1:55:13] You agree or not?
[1:55:17] I agree to a point.
[1:55:20] I'd like to put this thing around its course.
[1:55:22] Why are you letting me out?
[1:55:24] The point is, and I absolutely confess to this, putting more secret service on increases the danger of the president being killed, not decreases it, because it stimulates all that stuff.
[1:55:39] And they can't stop it.
[1:55:41] You've got to go like this.
[1:55:44] Like this guy, who is willing to take a .38 caliber gun and get into the middle of a crowd and shoot at them.
[1:55:50] Basically point blank, blank, blank, blank.
[1:55:52] There is no way to stop him.
[1:55:56] I'm going to send somebody to the studio.
[1:55:59] This guy fired five shots before anybody got to him and he has full Secret Service protection.
[1:56:05] He had 20 Secret Service men there.
[1:56:09] He hit 20 men and hit one agent.
[1:56:10] He's got 50.
[1:56:11] 50 assigned to us, 20 all the way under you.
[1:56:13] Hello?
[1:56:13] John, how'd it go?
[1:56:17] But how'd it go at the reception that day?
[1:56:26] And didn't Pat Handler show up or anything?
[1:56:31] No, of course he didn't.
[1:56:34] Right.
[1:56:36] Right.
[1:56:41] I think it was, I think it was good I went, but you know.
[1:56:42] Maybe better, I don't know.
[1:56:49] I didn't think it was right, I don't think it was right.
[1:56:52] I'm glad you're done.
[1:56:54] How about Nellie then?
[1:56:54] She's the actual host.
[1:56:55] Ah, let me put her on the phone.
[1:56:57] How was the room, Nellie?
[1:56:59] Well, that's great.
[1:56:59] I want to tell you that if you're going to write your notes, let's say it on the phone.
[1:57:06] You got a minute?
[1:57:09] That, as you know, when I had this announcement with John tomorrow, I just apologized.
[1:57:14] But by God, we do appreciate what you've done.
[1:57:18] You've made great sacrifice.
[1:57:20] You've done a great service to the country.
[1:57:23] I know that it's been terribly hard, too.
[1:57:26] But by God, I want you to know that I'm going to send John to Latin America right after I return to Moscow on a little trip.
[1:57:32] And I want you to go with me.
[1:57:34] You're going to be here next.
[1:57:36] I'm excited for the country.
[1:57:39] Colombia, Brazil, and Argentina.
[1:57:45] If he wants to add a country, it's okay.
[1:57:53] The main thing is I want you to go to those places.
[1:57:56] These are all countries where they've got God and protection.
[1:58:06] Okay, John, I just told Nellie the countries we're going to send you to, three, Colombia and, of course, Brazil and
[1:58:35] Okay.
[1:58:35] Alright.
[1:59:12] Yes, of course, you can call me any time.
[1:59:16] Okay.
[1:59:16] Okay, Jordan, good shape.
[1:59:28] Tilly brain is fine, as you say.
[1:59:34] I'm sorry, I didn't mean to...
[1:59:44] We've got it all stirred up and covered.
[1:59:59] I think you've got all of that covered, but if you want, you've got it under control instead of everybody passing around.
[2:00:10] Right.
[2:00:12] at the end of the eye.
[2:00:13] The Bureau has complete control of it now, so I think that they could just talk about it.
[2:00:21] As soon as they can get in and start questioning him, we'll do it.
[2:00:28] We'll do it.
[2:00:29] Yeah.
[2:00:29] We'll do it.
[2:00:29] As soon as they can.
[2:00:30] As soon as they can.
[2:00:36] They've got the picture early and hit him, and he also told them he was holding them.
[2:00:41] institutionally responsible for the guy's safety.
[2:00:43] Also, the judge for me ended up chucking him on that.
[2:00:47] And I'm going to go to the acting director for you and let you go.
[2:00:53] So in the room, as we heard, he said, oh, my God.
[2:00:57] He'll take you to court.
[2:00:59] And we are trying to cause him to put up with what he's done.
[2:01:06] Right?
[2:01:07] And we know that's going to move very fast.
[2:01:15] Now, if they want to continue the reports, well, yes, I want to know about his condition.
[2:01:23] Anything about his condition, I want to know at midnight, you know, okay?
[2:01:28] After that, if you want any report on the FBI interrogation, oh, hell yes.
[2:01:34] Anything until midnight about any of those things, I need to know, because I've got to be a compliment to the other one who said he didn't care.
[2:01:55] Very good.
[2:02:31] As soon as they can get in and start questioning the game, we'll do it within an hour.
[2:02:34] They've got the picture of the hitter, and he also told me that
[2:02:57] responsible for the guy's safety.
[2:02:58] Also the job information.
[2:02:59] Ended up chucking him on that.
[2:03:00] And I'm going to hit go, because the acting director really liked it.
[2:03:02] There you go.
[2:03:02] So in the room, as we heard, he said, oh, I got it.
[2:03:03] He'll do it.
[2:03:03] He'll do it.
[2:03:04] He'll do it.
[2:03:04] He'll do it.
[2:03:31] Now, anyone continuing the reports?
[2:03:32] Well, I guess I don't know about his condition.
[2:03:33] Anything about his condition, I don't know until midnight, you know, okay?
[2:03:35] After that, we'll see what happens.
[2:03:36] Do you want any report on the FBI certification?
[2:03:37] Oh, hell yes.
[2:03:38] Anything until midnight.
[2:03:38] About any of those things, I need to know, because I've got to be a compliment to everyone who said it.