Nixon & Ehrlichman on Press conference strategy and Meat price controls

2:38:48Where he said, he shall come back and serve you, and then serve another person for the amount of time he deserves.
2:38:52You know, really, we forget it.
2:38:57There's so much mythology in politics about Reagan, who was in some ruthless fall in terms of winning the war, and told us in the letter to his enemies, why?
2:39:07To get back to win the war.
2:39:11And we forget as a matter of fact, and that's why I did raise that damn thing about Teddy Kennedy, and Petey Kennedy, that we were odds on favor with Kennedy.
2:39:27We never were.
2:39:28Do you remember?
2:39:28I'm sorry?
2:39:30They already built that, and they know that development.
2:39:32Actually, it's built in ACO, and it's out for the most of the time, and it's always going to be there.
2:40:19Yeah, here you go.
2:41:13I know that's lunch later tonight.
2:41:16I, uh, we're going to leave last night.
2:41:19I've got to get it off.
2:41:22I've got to get it off.
2:41:49It's rather inevitable that I don't know what happened to this building last week.
2:41:55Of course, the people there will have raised questions about what happened last week.
2:42:04There's a lot of interest in the press and place of control.
2:42:12I guess, I mean, well, yeah, but we want to question it.
2:42:17It's going to be amazing.
2:42:22Yeah, we bring about some speculation.
2:42:51I don't think I have a question.
2:42:54The way I answered yesterday, the newscast, you said you have control over food prices.
2:43:05That's it?
2:43:06Obviously, whenever you talk about weight or price controls in the White House,
2:43:12You have to fire a silver bullet.
2:43:16You either do it or you don't do it.
2:43:18But you don't speculate in between.
2:43:20Because every time one of us says something, that has an effect on the market.
2:43:25It would be very irresponsible of me to do anything but to say to you, we know there's a problem.
2:43:31We're going to do what's necessary and appropriate.
2:43:33But I can't speculate in advance about any specific thing that might be done.
2:43:39We did get a flurry of market speculation over the weekend, because we had that meeting for the end of the week last week, and a rumor got out that it was going to be president-elect.
2:44:05And so, there were a lot of futures traded, and there was a certain amount of retail speculation.
2:44:10And so, that's just a little quid for what can happen.
2:44:16Instead, I called in and said, we believe we're going to run into this kind of deal.
2:44:23I haven't had a part of it.
2:44:24We're going to watch the situation before it's necessary.
2:44:37I would, and if you feel comfortable about it, I'd do the tender bit of saying, you know, if we do a disservice to the market, and we permit speculation on what we might do, something like that.
2:44:56P.K.
2:44:56Johnson, Connelly's friend, called me, and talked to the Australian Meat Board, and he said,
2:45:05And they told him that they were going to be able to send some meat in here.
2:45:13And Kleberg, of course, has Australia interests as well as... And so he felt that you've done the right thing.
2:45:21He thought that in a couple of months we could see some improvement in meat prices.
2:45:29And he said, for God's sake, don't impose controls on farmers.
2:45:35I agree.
2:45:36And he also said, it hasn't occurred to you that you ought to do something about your procurement policies in the government.
2:45:42I said, the president's already thought about that.
2:45:47What follows through with that is, well, I don't know.
2:45:48Now, we gave that to Kerr, let's see what we have out.
2:45:51He was going to do it on two fronts, the defense of GSA, and I'll check out and see what he's done.
2:45:55I think there's got to be a tougher look on Kerr's.
2:45:58Well, I think maybe you have a way with Laird.
2:46:01Cold turkey.
2:46:02Or Weinberger.
2:46:03Weinberger perhaps used to love to see.
2:46:08Laird would dance right around him.
2:46:10I think he's got it.
2:46:12I want to know what he's done.
2:46:13I want to report to him.
2:46:14He's a classy young guy.
2:46:15I don't know if he was out at a ranch party or not.
2:46:22He's the heir to Bloomberg.
2:46:27He's fortunate.
2:47:02You know, see the protocol or something, something where you need it.
2:47:07Sure, of course.
2:47:08Yeah?
2:47:11Let me go over.
2:47:11Sure.
2:47:12What about the 803, you know, congressmen kind of say it applies.
2:47:21How do you think you want to do that?
2:47:25Um.
2:47:26We've got a tiptoe and arrow line here.
2:47:28We want to keep the Detroit people and others upset about it.
2:47:33To keep the issue going.
2:47:35So we can say that Ann Gravedog, you wrote a letter to Broomfield this morning.
2:47:42And what you said to Broomfield was, you did the best you could with a tough congressional situation.
2:47:50This was an answer to the letter he wrote, where he said, I know it doesn't do the whole job, and I support your effort to get your legislation right.
2:48:00So, you say, 803 was the best in Broomfield, yet it could get into a tough congressional situation.
2:48:04At the same time, our Justice Department has been instructed by the President to leave no stone unturned to stay orders of this kind.
2:48:19Therefore,
2:48:21Although they have reservations about the applicability of A-3, they'll do what the President has instructed, and they will assert A-3 in the Detroit case at the appropriate time to seek a stay.
2:48:38But I must warn, we have valid, serious doubts that we'll be working.
2:48:43Its own sponsor, Congressman Broomefield, has written me this week
2:48:50to express his hope that my moratorium and other passing legislation, if we want it stopped, we only share away the moratorium.
2:49:05Now, about the same time, well known, I'll be on the wires ahead of you tomorrow.
2:49:15Out of Illinois.
2:49:16I'll go to Illinois first, and then up to Detroit.
2:49:19And actually I'm going to Lansing, so I'll follow you.
2:49:22My Lansing story will follow yours, but I'm going to have a meeting with the governor, and then I'm going to have a press conference in Lansing.
2:49:31And I'll get into all of this, plus Griffin's legislation, which probably will be offered on Friday, as an amendment to the OLO legal services bill, which combines...
2:49:50The Griffin Amendment and the moratorium.
2:49:55You won't want to say anything about that tomorrow night, unless it's been offered.
2:50:06But, I think you could say, my opinion from the Attorney General says it's ambiguous.
2:50:12Griffin?
2:50:13No, no, no, no.
2:50:14No, 803.
2:50:14Oh, yeah.
2:50:15Now over 803.
2:50:16The Attorney Giles opinion indicates ambiguous.
2:50:18We're going to leave no stone unturned.
2:50:21We're going to go ahead and assert it because it's the only tool we have at the moment.
2:50:25As Groenfield said to me in his letter, we will continue to press for the only sure thing.
2:50:36If you want to coin a phrase in here to respond to the Democratic platform,
2:50:41Democratic Platform, in one of its versions, not the final one they adopted, but one of their versions, said the issue is not busing, it is quality education.
2:50:49It seems to me you could say, in those communities where this is a problem, the issue is busing, as well as quality education, or something like that, so that you meet it head on.
2:51:04In other words, we're in a busing curve.
2:51:10Yeah, and it isn't.
2:51:11It's a cop-out to say, well, the only problem here is quality education.
2:51:16That isn't the only problem.
2:51:17Certain quality education is one of the problems.
2:51:20Bussing doesn't solve that.
2:51:24That's your lost generation.
2:51:35They've got about five of them that are going to go over the floor.
2:51:38But bussing is the only tough one.
2:51:40The bussing is the one that they've got to be robust.
2:51:45It may be strengthened on the floor.
2:51:49They'll hold down a portion.
2:51:53They'll hold down a portion.
2:51:56I think so.
2:51:57They'll hold down certain areas.
2:52:00Although they'll have been held for that.
2:52:01For that.
2:52:02For the homosexual marriages?
2:52:04Sure.
2:52:04It was about three to five.
2:52:05Did you see that the marijuana initiative will be on the California ballot?
2:52:10I think it's more likely to bring out the people on our side.
2:52:13To bring out the people on their side.
2:52:30I think it will.
2:52:36I think so.
2:52:36It will force, be sure as ever, to take a stand in California on that issue.
2:52:51I know we have something for working mothers, if you turn around.
2:53:29Well, I can see what you're getting at in there, but I do think that you make unnecessary trouble for yourself unless you give a nod to the idea that we want to get working mothers in the workforce, and that having kids shouldn't stand in their way.
2:53:51Social Security might understand that there's a problem with that.
2:53:55Or what is going to happen?
2:53:58Well, we don't know yet.
2:53:59I just talked to Clark.
2:54:01He says, unless Mills and Steger give a clear indication to the Senate that they will not take 20%, but it's going to be improved on.
2:54:13We're going to get 20%, and we're going to go over it Friday next week.
2:54:20Friday next week?
2:54:20Next week, because if you have two holidays on Tuesday,
2:54:23And then they're entitled to three legislative days.
2:54:29So that's Wednesday, Wednesday, and Friday.
2:54:31You guys would have to come back on their vacations on Friday.
2:54:34Well, they'd have to have three legislative days next week.
2:54:38So they'd have to come back on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.
2:54:40Or Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.
2:54:46Yeah, we don't need to be here.
2:54:49But Clark says that the old boys up there don't believe him.
2:54:52They think something will work out, something always works out.
2:54:57And so, he says, it's pretty hard to convince anybody that they're facing a crisis.
2:55:03I didn't.
2:55:09I don't think he can either.
2:55:14There's no point in it.
2:55:18In 1969, in your tax reform, you did a lot of things to lower income taxes for the average working state in the lower brackets.
2:55:36This 20% proposal by the church would
2:55:47...virtually restore all of those taxes and more.
2:55:54Lowered the income tax.
2:55:58See, well, lowered the tax bite.
2:56:05...from paychecks.
2:56:05Lowered taxes, right.
2:56:08So wipe that off, right.
2:56:18And we'll eat into the general fund.
2:56:21The payroll taxes is the big point here.
2:56:33I can get you some numbers if you want.
2:56:34I think that's enough.
2:56:36I think that's enough.
2:56:37So we'll just say that we have to realize that we have to pay for it between the tax reductions.
2:56:48Legal services, I want to get, I'm against legal services, you know, having started with that, but I understand we are for a legal services corporation now.
2:57:12Here's what we did.
2:57:13We said,
2:57:16We're going to take gas on legal services as long as we have it in the bank company.
2:57:20And it's our legal services.
2:57:22Reagan's going to be calling us up for a grand job in trouble.
2:57:26But let's get the thing the hell out of the government.
2:57:30That's why we want a corporation.
2:57:31So we form a corporation.
2:57:33Then, Javits and a bunch of guys come back and say, great idea, but let's have a lot of poverty people and a lot of clients and a lot of woolly-headed lawyers on the board of directors.
2:57:43And we said, the hell with that.
2:57:45We owe something to our clientele out there.
2:57:47So the president's going to appoint this board.
2:57:49And we're adamant about that.
2:57:52And if you don't give us that kind of power, we'll veto it.
2:57:56So then they sent us that thing last year.
2:58:00And they flaunted us.
2:58:03And they said, well, our president's going to appoint, but he can choose from one of six people who are poverty clients, one of six people who are poverty lawyers, and that sort of thing.
2:58:12And so we vetoed it.
2:58:14And so, that's where the thing is now.
2:58:17We're still insisting on it.
2:58:24Well, I don't know.
2:58:25They're still trying to split it up.
2:58:28We're for splitting it from OEO.
2:58:29The OEO thing that we'll get if we get it split is so innocuous and so watered down in our science.
2:58:38But with legal services on them.
2:58:40See, this is our argument for splitting.
2:58:43They leave a bad legal services formula.
2:58:46Then it'll wipe out the whole thing.
2:58:48Adam, there was something in here about some Jack Anderson relief.
2:59:07Later, yeah, it just came out.
2:59:10What four volumes of the Pentagon Papers were withheld by Ellsberg.
2:59:14He didn't, Anderson's done it.
2:59:17He did the most.
2:59:18Anderson's got it.
2:59:19He turned them over to the Post, the Post Grant.
2:59:22They're the so-called diplomatic volumes.
2:59:25Yeah, the ones on Henry's being rioted against.
2:59:28Now, the California case was reverted to Ellsberg.
2:59:32It's the Ellsberg-Russell case, and the argument there is
2:59:37That, Ellsberg's lawyers and people turned these papers over to Anderson.
2:59:44That's the thing that the government is contending in the case out there.
2:59:51And the judge is inquiring into that right now.
2:59:56So you shouldn't comment on that.
3:00:00On the meat price thing,
3:00:05I think we've done that pretty well.
3:00:06Speculation is a very, another way that we drive any speculation about controls, we'll have a counter-reduction effect that drives up prices.
3:00:16They're both speculating on something.
3:00:22We say we believe our present program is the right program at this time.
3:00:27I don't know where actions have acted in this.
3:00:32What would you think about this?
3:00:33I've instructed the people around the White House and in the departments not to engage in idle speculation.
3:00:42And I will be bound by my own definition.
3:00:50At the same time, I think you all realize that this is a matter that is receiving my most intense attention.
3:01:01We will...
3:01:09This is the kind of economic problem that hits...
3:01:32Every American in his pocket.
3:01:35And so, while others may be concerned about the fluctuation of gold or municipal bonds, this is one that I'm going to watch very closely.
3:01:43And then you go on to say, and an American who studies will take the action that's necessary to deal with the problem.
3:01:57Yeah, my mind's open as to alternatives.
3:01:58I'm not...
3:01:59But both of you say at this time...
3:02:03I wouldn't say that.
3:02:04I wouldn't say that.
3:02:05Because that's a signal.
3:02:09You just say it is proper for me to comment one way or the other.
3:02:12We're going to comment one way or the other.
3:02:15We have taken some action to continue to study it.
3:02:20And I just have to keep all my options open without sending any signals as to what I might or might not do.
3:02:25Thank you.
3:02:32We'll take action as necessary.
3:02:35That's not going to be considered.
3:02:38See, that promissory aspect of it, I think you just really have to say whether or not I intend to take any action.
3:02:43I'm not going to tell you, because that drives prices up.
3:02:46That's right.
3:02:46I'm not going to speculate about any action that's going to be taken.
3:02:49I just say that I'm not going to speculate.
3:02:56We're watching through this.
3:03:05I want you to get for me an answer to the question of how many people live upon them.
3:03:24They said 80,000.
3:03:25We don't have a new government proposal this time.
3:03:33But what I meant is, we can say the welfare rights organization, supported by some senators, can we put it that way?
3:03:44Offered by Senator McGovern?
3:03:48No, I don't want to mention Senator McGovern.
3:03:51All right.
3:03:52I won't mention Senator McGovern.
3:03:53I want to say the welfare.
3:03:55The well on $6,500 national welfare?
3:03:56That is, I would say that it's been offered by one of the presidential candidates.
3:04:01Sure.
3:04:02that have been introduced by one of the presidential candidates.
3:04:06Sure.
3:04:07By the leading presidential candidate.
3:04:15One of the leading?
3:04:15Say, one of the leading presidential candidates.
3:04:20Would add 90 million to the welfare rules.
3:04:21I get those for you.
3:04:24I want to be able to set them down.
3:04:26I can say there are presently 12.
3:04:27The purpose of our program is to provide a way to move those
3:04:36is to reduce that, not increase it.
3:04:42That's for purpose.
3:04:44Whereas the excessive payments in welfare would be an incentive for people to stay on welfare and not to get off.
3:04:52Why don't you write an answer on that?
3:04:54Would you give me a little bit on that?
3:04:56Don't you think that's true?
3:04:57Yes.
3:04:57Do you pay a person $6,500?
3:04:59Is that an incentive to get off?
3:05:00I don't think so.
3:05:03Well, especially if we're not coupled by work requirements.
3:05:08Aren't they going to have all that?
3:05:12That's immoral.
3:05:16That degrades human beings.
3:05:23Gun control.
3:05:28I don't take the position that we're against it.
3:05:33We turned over all of our material and legislative work to her husband.
3:06:00The big problem is to draw the line between these cheap handguns that come in from abroad, or that are manufactured by dimples, and that are unsafe on the one hand, and those that are sort of under the tent of the National Rifle Association on the other, whether it's Smith & Wesson and Colt, and people of that kind.
3:06:24Smith & Wesson and Colt are out of the reach of the average cheap hood,
3:06:30The kid that holds up the search station and shoots the tenant, he buys a $7.50 Saturday night special order.
3:06:37I don't know how much they cost, but not near as much as ours.
3:06:44So, what we've been trying to do is define, in statutory language, the line between those two kinds of weapons.
3:06:50And outlaw the cheap ones.
3:06:53Outlaw the very important, taxable ones.
3:06:56What do I just say?
3:06:57Saturday night special order, $3.00.
3:07:00I'm in total agreement with it.
3:07:02If a bill comes to me that defines these things so that it's an enforceable law, I'll sign it with a flourish.
3:07:11Now, that qualification is an important qualification, enforceable law.
3:07:16Well, because Bayh doesn't know how to define Saturday Night Special.
3:07:22For us, it probably does, because we've given him all of our research.
3:07:31He voted for it, but he has an amendment.
3:07:37A better definition.
3:07:40You don't need to get into all that.
3:07:42You can say the administration has wholehearted them.
3:07:47You better...
3:07:48You better prepare a briefing on that one, too, for me.
3:07:50In other words, you know, the 75 words.
3:07:52All right.
3:07:52In other words, I am for, as I said, I am for the control of these young people.
3:07:56This is for the goal of the committee.
3:08:00We have worked with the committee.
3:08:03I hope and am confident that Congress will pass legislation and deal with this effectively.
3:08:13That's all we can say.
3:08:14But, you see,
3:08:18Very good.
3:08:19Can I say one other thing that hurts me?
3:08:24I just wonder if we don't feel as well there as we do in my own position and so forth.
3:08:57I think that, for instance, McGovern is taking some substantial damage by changing it.
3:09:07You think he is?
3:09:09I think so.
3:09:10I don't know.
3:09:19Maybe not the average set, although I got some people in my office today, just folks.
3:09:25And it came up.
3:09:28And they said, gee, isn't that funny what he's doing?
3:09:31We don't know where he is on this.
3:09:35And everybody heard $1,000 a person.
3:09:38And that made an impression.
3:09:39Now he's shifting off.
3:09:41I think he was letting off the hook on that issue.
3:09:45Because he said, I shifted too.
3:09:47Yes.
3:09:47So you think, would you just stick with our program and say it is a program that has got people off the roll rather than off?
3:09:53Put the emphasis where you want to put it.
3:09:56And at the family assistance chest, it would increase the number on, but only as a bridge to get them off.
3:10:03I think you could do this.
3:10:05You could say, well, you remember family assistance was what we proposed.
3:10:08HR1 is where we are now.
3:10:10And that's the House of Representatives bill, which we could sign.
3:10:17But differentiate between family assistance and HR1, or whatever that gets you.
3:10:21That isn't your bill anymore.
3:10:24It'll make it easier for you to get off on the time lapse.
3:10:27You'll never have the problem.
3:10:29I can see in my opinion, from having talked to those senators, they're going to fight this.
3:10:36Oh, yeah, sure.
3:10:36But you see, and I think Elliot's analysis, I think Elliot's analysis that we just made, that he's a driver, where it fails, is that, frankly,
3:10:51That would be on the first, but beyond that, long, little filibuster, until hell freezes up.
3:10:57But that's it.
3:10:58It just happened.
3:11:00And so, there's been a lot of work done.
3:11:03Now, can I ask you one other thing?
3:11:08Well, I'm ready to share.
3:11:10What are your questions?
3:11:20It's a little different.
3:11:21I've had a problem talking to Javits after I talked to Ron.
3:11:24Javits doesn't have to.
3:11:26So there will be some battle.
3:11:29My view is to say I'm glad to see the House's action.
3:11:31I hope the Senate acts responsibly in some way.
3:11:34So we can have this relief period.
3:11:37As you all know, this is a piece of legislation for which the administration has been working for nearly three years.
3:11:42Three years.
3:11:42And in my first bucket list.
3:11:48I could get that, wouldn't you?
3:12:05Yeah, I kind of would.
3:12:07Would you like to have just one?
3:12:08Yeah, I know.
3:12:09And yet, I know the problems that it makes.
3:12:11At the same time, there's this about it.
3:12:15I can make a case for cutting a hell of a lot of city programs, a lot of state programs, if we've done that for sure.
3:13:00I know we have to do it because we made the promise.
3:13:04Just screw it up so that we can get out of it later.
3:13:07It's a horrible program.
3:13:08We could get out of it then in December if we wanted to.
3:13:13That's a big challenge for the lawyers that we put the clamps on in December.
3:13:48But on a press conference, if you should get a question on something like that, say, I was back on this before the end of the fiscal year, and I still have it.
3:13:58I can't recommend it.
3:14:00It's quite another point.
3:14:03Do you believe we should still take the stand for no tax increase?
3:14:08Well, I didn't quite say that.
3:14:09What I said was,
3:14:10No tax increase unless the Congress... Oh, I know.
3:14:12No, no, no.
3:14:13I'm going to put it on the Congress.
3:14:14I'm going to say that I must warn that the Congress substantially increases our budget about what we are asking.
3:14:26Without funding, a tax increase will be necessary.
3:14:30It will be their responsibility.
3:14:34In order to hold the tax increase, we must hold the budget where it is,
3:14:39We believe, unlike the sort of hopeless forecast of the Brookings Institution, that we can make real improvements in the long run when we're spending on the domestic side, on the domestic side.
3:14:52Brookings is hopeless on domestic, and they're not foreign.
3:14:57That is true, they've come to hell.
3:14:58They only gave about three lines to domestic guns.
3:15:01They just said, you know, this Congress, we don't make part of the country.
3:15:06We can't make any domestic guns.

Nixon & Ehrlichman on Press conference strategy and Meat price controls

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