Conversation 347-004

TapeTape 347StartFriday, June 30, 1972 at 12:52 PMEndFriday, June 30, 1972 at 2:10 PMTape start time00:05:23Tape end time01:11:12ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Mitchell, John N.;  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Shultz, George P.;  Ehrlichman, John D.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On June 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, John N. Mitchell, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, George P. Shultz, and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:52 pm to 2:10 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 347-004 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 347-4

Date: June 30, 1972
Time: 12:52 pm - 2:10 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with John N. Mitchell and H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

The President talked with George P. Shultz between 12:52 pm and 12:57 pm.

[Conversation No. 347-4A]

[See Conversation No. 26-30]

     Greetings

     Refreshments

     The President's press conference, June 29, 1972
          -Questions
               -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
               -Quality
                      -The President’s view
               -Vietnam War
               -Capital punishment

Haldeman entered at unknown time after 12:57 pm.

     [Unintelligible]

Haldeman talked with John D. Ehrlichman at an unknown time between 12:57 and 2:10 pm.

                                        (rev. Jan-02)

[Conversation No. 347-4B]

[See Conversation No. 26-31]

[End of telephone conversation]

     [Unintelligible]

     Caviar
          -Iran
                  -The President’s previous trip
                  -Compared with the Soviet Union
                  -Mohammed Reza Pahlavi [Shah of Iran]

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 4m 19s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

*****************************************************************

     Supreme Court
          -The President's appointees
          -Vote on capital punishment
                -The President’s position
                -Press coverage
                -The President's appointees
                     -Influence
          -Press coverage
                -Fred P. Graham
                -Lyle Denniston
                -Washington Post
          -Phrase "Nixon Court"
                -Warren E. Burger
                -Dwight D. Eisenhower
                     -Earl Warren

                                       (rev. Jan-02)

               -Public impression
         -Potter Stewart
               -Georgetown
               -Child's school
                    -Smith College

    Mitchell
         -Resignation
         -Relationship with the President
         -Personal problems

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 8s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

*****************************************************************

    Politicians' wives
          -Six Crises
                -Dedication to Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
          -Difficulties
          -Martha (Beall) Mitchell
                -The President’s view
                -Difficulties with public role

    Martha Mitchell
         -Effect on John Mitchell
               -1972 campaign
                     -The President’s view
         -Health
               -John Mitchell’s view
                     -Effect on John Mitchell
         -Media Interest
               -Effect

                                       (rev. Jan-02)

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 30s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

*****************************************************************

    Martha Mitchell
         -The President’s view
              -John Mitchell’s service to the President

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 20s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5

*****************************************************************

         -Journey from Westchester County
              -Martha Mitchell
              -Westchester Country Club
                    -Media
                    -Incident

                                      (rev. Jan-02)

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 3m 32s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6

*****************************************************************

    Welfare reform
         -Administration's position
         -House Resolution [HR] 1
               -Elliot L. Richardson
               -James D. Hodgson
               -Abraham A. Ribicoff's position
               -Los Angeles Times statement
                     -Ronald W. Reagan

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 22s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7

*****************************************************************

    Ideological orientation
         -Legal services issues
         -Public Broadcasting
               -Sander Vanocur

                                        (rev. Jan-02)

                      -Salary
                            -Compared to Cabinet and Supreme Court
                      -Comparison with Walter L. Cronkite, Jr.
                      -Kennedy family

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 7m 59s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8

*****************************************************************

[Transcripts of the following portion of the conversation my be found in RG 460, Box 172, pp 1.
SI, BK II, pp. 514-15, (1-2)]

[End of transcribed portion]

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 6m 6s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9

*****************************************************************

     The President's conversation with William F. (“Billy”) Graham
          -Graham's wife
          -Offer of help for the Mitchells

                                        (rev. Jan-02)

     Martha Mitchell
          -Fan mail
               -Westchester Country Club incident

[Transcripts of the following portion of the conversation my be found in RG 460, Box 172, p.2
and SI, BK. II, PP.515-16 (2-3)]

[End of transcribed portion]

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 4m 58s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11

*****************************************************************

     Martha Mitchell
          -Health
          -Strains of public life
                -Politician's wives
                      -Samuel Rayburn and Joseph W. Martin, Jr.
                      -Catholic priests

Mitchell and Haldeman left at 2:10 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Well, I'll tell you later, man.
We'll see.
We'll see.
I can't tell the difference.
So, George, you had it left and gave me a note on me and I. I just want to ask you what I know.
I don't know.
Right.
Right.
You got your breathing off okay, huh?
Yeah.
I think it's...
I think in your instance...
Damn, cold turkey.
Yeah.
I've created as much of a freedom as I can do.
God, these guys have just got to be allowed to do whatever kind of thing that shows cleverness, restraint.
You know, there are various ways that you can do this.
You've got to have courage to do it.
You get lost.
You're all starting to get lost.
And I just put it right on the line.
I put me right behind them.
I say, no, you're doing this.
You're not acting at all.
This is
Ha ha ha
I just wonder too now, I want you to follow through with the agriculture lobby.
I was not in a position to argue with you when I say I think a lot was spoken out.
It was terrible.
It was terrible.
I don't see any race.
There's gonna be a world where we meet each other.
Try we should go in and help our team clean the land.
What do you think?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, this is for hooking them out.
Well, would you tell Henry that I've been done?
That I raised it?
Push it along?
Okay.
John, how are you?
Well, considering everything that goes ahead.
I heard that you order yourself a little pepper if you don't want it in front of you.
All right.
Well, that was good.
I understand.
Good morning.
Well, they sort of hung in there on Agnew and a few other things, but we've got to keep guessing a little bit longer.
Well, there are so many others.
Yeah.
Hello?
Hello?
Hello?
Hello?
You're good.
That's great.
That's great.
That's not too bad.
Great.
I agree.
Good.
That's hard work, sir.
Good.
Okay, now I'm sure it was just one.
Yeah, no, it definitely didn't roll.
It really didn't roll.
No problems.
Any good reactions from last night?
And we'll presumably fly home.
Okay.
You know, it was either... Every time I'm there, I just need it all the time.
The gray, actually.
The Iranian gray.
In Iran, you notice they had it even better than the Russians.
Because theirs comes from there.
That's Chesapeake City.
My tastes are very...
I'm wondering if you could be goddamn proud of anything we can't do in our court.
Those four guys done great, for sure.
I mean, two or three of them.
Well, not going as far as they did.
And, you know, sort of sticking their lips around.
It is when they came up on the right side of the Capitol, but it's with that place.
Because that happens to be my view.
I heard, and it's not going to let us know this or that.
People really understand this.
Do you think they're getting out of court about the next court?
Very, very much so.
I think about that decision yesterday, which got the biggest play in that decision.
We can draw a line between them and this court.
There's still a minority of one, but I don't want to bring them together.
They've been together for three games solidly.
They've been great.
Actually, all of them.
All of the writers who played in this recording.
That was column after column after column.
Plenty of those ways.
I don't know if that's good or good at the same time.
I love it.
I don't know if it's that great of a place to be.
Well, it's great and a lot of that stuff.
It's good to be able to compose.
It's interesting too, it's the next recording I haven't heard of, but the other one was never the Eisenhower recording, it was the Warren recording.
Fortunately for Eisenhower's memory, it had a high office of tourism.
You know what?
Georgetown did it, didn't they?
Georgetown set it up.
John, on this other matter...
Let me say this to you.
It's one of those things where...
Right arm has been shown for a long time.
Only way back in the late 60s.
It was right arm.
Let me say this.
I've always had a theory about politics.
I covered this crisis in some way, but I never covered it.
I dedicated that book to a flyer called Japan She Also Ran.
And it's always seemed negative.
Of course,
For a woman, being a wife of a politician is infinitely more difficult to deal with.
Because you see the man getting out there, slugging kids around, dressed, giving them home, another restaurant, and so forth.
And for one who doesn't have to be a politician, in other words, who doesn't want to give one damn about it, but is simply doing it for public service, it's a sure case.
I'm supposed to be a political politician, but I'm not.
I should have put you in the right line.
I said that the market has been a great asset to us, and it should be star quality.
But I can see that what happens here is that I've just got two championships in three years.
My own view is that, probably,
I think too, when you're dealing with situations involving men, but even more so women who are
Emotionally upset about matters of this sort.
You cannot run.
You cannot press too far.
You never can be sure what's going to happen to you.
Pressures are never going to get less.
They're going to get a hell of a lot worse.
And under those circumstances, when we go on, we want to put all that pressure on.
Well, that's sort of, I just want to give you a little bit of my own thinking, that I totally understand.
I actually, you know, I feel about it, I think it's a good way out, but you're the best judge for that.
Whatever your judgment is, I have to keep working on it.
Well, for my opinion, but I do, the only thing I would say, the only thing I think is that
Well, see, you can't put amateurs in.
There are California, or New Jersey, you know the ones where, and also some of the southern stuff.
It's just too, but you agree about, I guess that, I mean, we can say, well, we'll let Brenda do this, or buddy, well, it's too big a play, they don't talk to you.
As a matter of fact, if you put in a new man, you have to do, they're going to just be talking to me,
And that I can't do.
Mrs. President, Martha is around in Whiteford.
She has a stand.
I appreciate that.
And she brought up the fact herself.
I'm going to keep you lit.
I'm going to keep things quiet.
I could be insulting just so often today.
I wasn't the object of all the shepherding.
So I was most of the stuff that would work out for me.
I can't even think of anything else.
I can't even think of anything else.
I can't even think of anything else.
I can't even think of anything else.
I can't even think of anything else.
You can't let that happen.
She's a celebrity.
You can't do anything, like for example...
You know, if you want to restrain a situation, maybe match some friends, or have a big trip or something like that, you could have easily done it in 68.
You would no longer do that on the block.
She's a public guy.
I see that.
And I see your friends again.
It's crazy that you can't do that.
You've got to have a choice.
You've got to decide to do it.
You don't have to fight your back end.
And that's what brought me to this...
That's Martha.
Martha loves Sparta.
Martha doesn't like Sparta.
Martha doesn't like Sparta.
She's a fighter.
She's a fighter.
She's a fighter.
Which I like.
I find it difficult to be restrained sometimes.
Let me say, we really don't need to go in, but I understand totally.
I think it's not much more important to cut some of the water to be cut here.
It was really amazing when I was taking that ball off of the other side.
It was just a country club progression.
And then the other day when I was going to kill my mom.
Did you drive down to Washington?
Didn't get to play at all?
Fight on?
I didn't like the crowd, and I didn't put her on that front.
Well, she was with you?
See, when John went up and brought her... Oh, I'm sorry.
I didn't understand what you were talking about.
He went up by himself.
What happened this morning?
Well, we were lucky to get out.
I said to Connor, I said to the reporters and photographers all over the place.
I'm very well known.
Well, a man named Harrison, an old man of ours, he just got out of the way.
We're going to rush him carefully.
Otherwise, we'd have fog, and that's the only way down.
We've got a few of them, you know, in some of these boats.
Like, for example, he knows I want to send him to the welfare department.
He's part of it, and I want to send him to the city.
You're not supposed to know that here, but I guess you can get some access to it a long time ago with some of the activities that are going on at this level.
Well, that'd be a good thing.
Yes, but the next day in the Los Angeles Times, which drove Ryan Reagan off the wall, was the statement that some other put out that Richardson and Hudson encouraged you to do.
They did.
That's right.
And I rejected it.
I'm running out of here.
We're in the same pair of lights.
Like for example, this legal service.
Son of a bitch.
Public broadcasting by God Almighty.
I like that.
I got to be the highest bidder.
Hire any member of the cabinet to be in court.
Right, right, am I right?
He's 85, he's 85.
But he's working.
He's a pain in the ass.
That's the other point.
He is the, he is the, you could argue that Walter Kopp had important matters on the market.
Sure.
The senator is the half of the candidate.
The senator is solely a candidate.
Yes, yes, sir.
This is another factor.
The longer you wait, the more risk each hour you run the rest of the morning stuff.
Valid and invalid servicing on the wiring cable type of thing.
You couldn't possibly do it if you got it on and it was positive in your side.
That's the other thing.
The trucking doesn't come on when we don't.
We hope nothing will.
It may not.
But there's always risk.
As of now, there's no problem.
As of any moment in the future, there is at least a potential problem.
I've cut the laws fast.
If we're going to do it, I've cut it fast.
That's my answer.
And I don't think, as a matter of fact, I don't think the story, you can put it in human terms, I think the story will be positive rather than negative.
Because, as I said, as I was referring answers at press conferences, I just wrote it out.
I don't know what to do.
I don't know what to do.
I don't know what to do.
I tell a lot of people I like that answer, they would have.
If it made anybody else ask any other questions, I'd look like a savage son of a bitch.
I thoroughly had to look like that.
Well, let me just tell you a confident something that happened three days ago.
Billy Graham called me.
And he said, you know, he's a great admirer of ours.
I said, I don't want to get into something that's not mine.
He said, if I can do anything regarding the situation between John and Martha, I will be glad to do it.
I said, there's no problem.
I said, no, there's no problem.
I said, Martha's
I appreciate it.
You see, my point is, you've got a guy that's on our team, so it shows you that the reaction will be exactly what you want.
Of course, that's why you have to do it.
One of the other things I did riding back and forth, I don't know if you've ever read Martin Fenway.
Fantastic guy.
He kind of develops it, so.
This was after she had died.
I don't know if that explains it at all.
The rest doesn't count.
It's always something within the world.
That's great.
If you take this move, people won't expect it.
It'll be a surprise.
It'll be a surprise.
Otherwise, you're right.
It will be tied right together.
You won't like it.
If you wait too long, it simmers down.
And if other stuff develops on water, the problem is it's always potential or something.
I look at that around the car.
That's right.
It'll be hard on our line.
This will departure under the capillaries.
I guess why I can be happy with a... ...marking number.
Yeah, we have...
Sorry about the problems.
This is a ship I don't want to launch.
Yeah.
Sorry about the problems.
And I won't add to what you've done.
Cracks don't count here.
I owe people with that.
No, I'm not.
No, but I think it's a good solution.
All right, sir.
Mute.
Let me just say this.
I won't say it further.
Mute.
Mute.
Mute.
Mute.
Mute.
She got through two of the things I got through in my life.
Well, I'm the only one who hasn't.
Sometimes it's more difficult than that.
Yeah.
As a matter of fact, I really think that Sam Rayburn and Joe Martin were right.
No politician should ever be married.
I agree with you.
Really?
I mean, I think Frank, the Catholic Church was right, actually.
The folks, the priests and the rest, that's just better for them.
It's hard as hell in China.
I mean, this family, you know, and all the other things, God damn, you've got to fill the end.
Terrible problem.
Total conflict of interest.
And that's, so there you are.
And it's just people in public life have one hell of a time in terms of their...
Well, anyway.
We'll try and work it out.
Right.
We sure will.
See you.
See you back.
Yes, sir.