Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 347 › Conversation 347-004

Nixon, Mitchell & Haldeman on 1972 Campaign and Welfare Reform

Friday, June 30, 1972 · 12:52 PM–2:10 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Mitchell, John N.; Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Shultz, George P.; Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation347-004 on Tape 347 (tape position 00:05:23–01:11:12)StartFriday, June 30, 1972 at 12:52 PMEndFriday, June 30, 1972 at 2:10 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 347-004 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with John Mitchell, H.R. Haldeman, George Shultz, and John Ehrlichman to discuss political strategy and personal staffing matters. A significant focus of the meeting was the potential resignation of John Mitchell and the mounting pressures on his wife, Martha Mitchell, regarding their public life and the 1972 campaign. The participants also discussed administrative policy, specifically welfare reform, and the ideological leanings of recent Supreme Court appointees.

Audio

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This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 00:05:23 into the tape and ends around 01:11:12.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
5:23Well, I'll tell you later, man.
5:23We'll see.
5:28We'll see.
5:31I can't tell the difference.
5:39So, George, you had it left and gave me a note on me and I. I just want to ask you what I know.
5:52I don't know.
6:04Right.
6:04Right.
6:06You got your breathing off okay, huh?
6:12Yeah.
6:13I think it's...
6:16I think in your instance...
6:16Damn, cold turkey.
6:17Yeah.
6:32I've created as much of a freedom as I can do.
6:35God, these guys have just got to be allowed to do whatever kind of thing that shows cleverness, restraint.
6:43You know, there are various ways that you can do this.
6:46You've got to have courage to do it.
6:49You get lost.
6:51You're all starting to get lost.
6:53And I just put it right on the line.
6:56I put me right behind them.
6:59I say, no, you're doing this.
7:00You're not acting at all.
7:01This is
7:02Ha ha ha
7:34I just wonder too now, I want you to follow through with the agriculture lobby.
7:41I was not in a position to argue with you when I say I think a lot was spoken out.
7:46It was terrible.
7:47It was terrible.
8:02I don't see any race.
8:03There's gonna be a world where we meet each other.
8:05Try we should go in and help our team clean the land.
8:07What do you think?
8:08Yeah.
8:08Yeah.
8:09Yeah.
8:10Yeah.
8:10I mean, this is for hooking them out.
8:33Well, would you tell Henry that I've been done?
8:38That I raised it?
8:40Push it along?
8:42Okay.
8:44John, how are you?
8:46Well, considering everything that goes ahead.
8:49I heard that you order yourself a little pepper if you don't want it in front of you.
8:54All right.
8:56Well, that was good.
8:57I understand.
8:58Good morning.
9:05Well, they sort of hung in there on Agnew and a few other things, but we've got to keep guessing a little bit longer.
9:09Well, there are so many others.
9:10Yeah.
13:48Hello?
13:49Hello?
13:49Hello?
13:49Hello?
14:30You're good.
14:30That's great.
14:31That's great.
14:31That's not too bad.
14:32Great.
14:32I agree.
14:32Good.
14:32That's hard work, sir.
14:33Good.
14:33Okay, now I'm sure it was just one.
14:34Yeah, no, it definitely didn't roll.
14:35It really didn't roll.
15:01No problems.
15:01Any good reactions from last night?
15:02And we'll presumably fly home.
15:02Okay.
18:13You know, it was either... Every time I'm there, I just need it all the time.
18:21The gray, actually.
18:34The Iranian gray.
18:38In Iran, you notice they had it even better than the Russians.
18:42Because theirs comes from there.
18:48That's Chesapeake City.
18:53My tastes are very...
23:22I'm wondering if you could be goddamn proud of anything we can't do in our court.
23:28Those four guys done great, for sure.
23:29I mean, two or three of them.
23:32Well, not going as far as they did.
23:33And, you know, sort of sticking their lips around.
23:38It is when they came up on the right side of the Capitol, but it's with that place.
23:42Because that happens to be my view.
23:44I heard, and it's not going to let us know this or that.
23:52People really understand this.
23:54Do you think they're getting out of court about the next court?
23:59Very, very much so.
24:00I think about that decision yesterday, which got the biggest play in that decision.
24:06We can draw a line between them and this court.
24:09There's still a minority of one, but I don't want to bring them together.
24:18They've been together for three games solidly.
24:19They've been great.
24:19Actually, all of them.
24:20All of the writers who played in this recording.
24:21That was column after column after column.
24:22Plenty of those ways.
24:23I don't know if that's good or good at the same time.
24:24I love it.
24:25I don't know if it's that great of a place to be.
24:26Well, it's great and a lot of that stuff.
24:27It's good to be able to compose.
24:47It's interesting too, it's the next recording I haven't heard of, but the other one was never the Eisenhower recording, it was the Warren recording.
24:55Fortunately for Eisenhower's memory, it had a high office of tourism.
24:59You know what?
25:00Georgetown did it, didn't they?
25:02Georgetown set it up.
25:16John, on this other matter...
25:44Let me say this to you.
25:45It's one of those things where...
25:46Right arm has been shown for a long time.
25:47Only way back in the late 60s.
25:47It was right arm.
28:46Let me say this.
28:47I've always had a theory about politics.
28:51I covered this crisis in some way, but I never covered it.
28:56I dedicated that book to a flyer called Japan She Also Ran.
29:00And it's always seemed negative.
29:01Of course,
29:17For a woman, being a wife of a politician is infinitely more difficult to deal with.
29:23Because you see the man getting out there, slugging kids around, dressed, giving them home, another restaurant, and so forth.
29:32And for one who doesn't have to be a politician, in other words, who doesn't want to give one damn about it, but is simply doing it for public service, it's a sure case.
29:44I'm supposed to be a political politician, but I'm not.
29:46I should have put you in the right line.
29:47I said that the market has been a great asset to us, and it should be star quality.
29:49But I can see that what happens here is that I've just got two championships in three years.
30:12My own view is that, probably,
30:47I think too, when you're dealing with situations involving men, but even more so women who are
31:17Emotionally upset about matters of this sort.
31:19You cannot run.
31:19You cannot press too far.
31:20You never can be sure what's going to happen to you.
31:21Pressures are never going to get less.
31:22They're going to get a hell of a lot worse.
31:24And under those circumstances, when we go on, we want to put all that pressure on.
31:45Well, that's sort of, I just want to give you a little bit of my own thinking, that I totally understand.
31:52I actually, you know, I feel about it, I think it's a good way out, but you're the best judge for that.
32:05Whatever your judgment is, I have to keep working on it.
32:10Well, for my opinion, but I do, the only thing I would say, the only thing I think is that
32:15Well, see, you can't put amateurs in.
32:17There are California, or New Jersey, you know the ones where, and also some of the southern stuff.
32:21It's just too, but you agree about, I guess that, I mean, we can say, well, we'll let Brenda do this, or buddy, well, it's too big a play, they don't talk to you.
32:32As a matter of fact, if you put in a new man, you have to do, they're going to just be talking to me,
32:47And that I can't do.
32:47Mrs. President, Martha is around in Whiteford.
32:48She has a stand.
32:48I appreciate that.
32:49And she brought up the fact herself.
32:50I'm going to keep you lit.
32:50I'm going to keep things quiet.
32:51I could be insulting just so often today.
33:16I wasn't the object of all the shepherding.
33:17So I was most of the stuff that would work out for me.
33:19I can't even think of anything else.
33:20I can't even think of anything else.
33:22I can't even think of anything else.
33:23I can't even think of anything else.
33:24I can't even think of anything else.
33:43You can't let that happen.
33:47She's a celebrity.
33:51You can't do anything, like for example...
34:02You know, if you want to restrain a situation, maybe match some friends, or have a big trip or something like that, you could have easily done it in 68.
34:07You would no longer do that on the block.
34:08She's a public guy.
34:09I see that.
34:09And I see your friends again.
34:10It's crazy that you can't do that.
34:11You've got to have a choice.
34:12You've got to decide to do it.
34:13You don't have to fight your back end.
34:14And that's what brought me to this...
35:03That's Martha.
35:03Martha loves Sparta.
35:04Martha doesn't like Sparta.
35:06Martha doesn't like Sparta.
35:08She's a fighter.
35:09She's a fighter.
35:11She's a fighter.
35:14Which I like.
35:15I find it difficult to be restrained sometimes.
35:32Let me say, we really don't need to go in, but I understand totally.
35:34I think it's not much more important to cut some of the water to be cut here.
38:10It was really amazing when I was taking that ball off of the other side.
38:13It was just a country club progression.
38:15And then the other day when I was going to kill my mom.
38:17Did you drive down to Washington?
38:18Didn't get to play at all?
38:20Fight on?
38:20I didn't like the crowd, and I didn't put her on that front.
38:22Well, she was with you?
38:36See, when John went up and brought her... Oh, I'm sorry.
38:38I didn't understand what you were talking about.
38:39He went up by himself.
38:40What happened this morning?
38:41Well, we were lucky to get out.
38:42I said to Connor, I said to the reporters and photographers all over the place.
38:44I'm very well known.
38:45Well, a man named Harrison, an old man of ours, he just got out of the way.
38:47We're going to rush him carefully.
39:12Otherwise, we'd have fog, and that's the only way down.
42:50We've got a few of them, you know, in some of these boats.
42:51Like, for example, he knows I want to send him to the welfare department.
42:53He's part of it, and I want to send him to the city.
42:54You're not supposed to know that here, but I guess you can get some access to it a long time ago with some of the activities that are going on at this level.
42:57Well, that'd be a good thing.
43:12Yes, but the next day in the Los Angeles Times, which drove Ryan Reagan off the wall, was the statement that some other put out that Richardson and Hudson encouraged you to do.
43:40They did.
43:41That's right.
43:41And I rejected it.
43:42I'm running out of here.
43:44We're in the same pair of lights.
45:11Like for example, this legal service.
45:11Son of a bitch.
45:12Public broadcasting by God Almighty.
45:13I like that.
45:13I got to be the highest bidder.
45:42Hire any member of the cabinet to be in court.
45:52Right, right, am I right?
45:53He's 85, he's 85.
45:54But he's working.
45:57He's a pain in the ass.
45:57That's the other point.
46:00He is the, he is the, you could argue that Walter Kopp had important matters on the market.
46:09Sure.
46:11The senator is the half of the candidate.
46:14The senator is solely a candidate.
46:15Yes, yes, sir.
54:20This is another factor.
54:21The longer you wait, the more risk each hour you run the rest of the morning stuff.
54:28Valid and invalid servicing on the wiring cable type of thing.
54:31You couldn't possibly do it if you got it on and it was positive in your side.
54:35That's the other thing.
54:35The trucking doesn't come on when we don't.
54:37We hope nothing will.
54:39It may not.
54:39But there's always risk.
54:40As of now, there's no problem.
54:41As of any moment in the future, there is at least a potential problem.
54:49I've cut the laws fast.
54:50If we're going to do it, I've cut it fast.
54:51That's my answer.
54:52And I don't think, as a matter of fact, I don't think the story, you can put it in human terms, I think the story will be positive rather than negative.
54:57Because, as I said, as I was referring answers at press conferences, I just wrote it out.
54:59I don't know what to do.
54:59I don't know what to do.
55:00I don't know what to do.
55:18I tell a lot of people I like that answer, they would have.
55:25If it made anybody else ask any other questions, I'd look like a savage son of a bitch.
55:30I thoroughly had to look like that.
1:01:42Well, let me just tell you a confident something that happened three days ago.
1:01:46Billy Graham called me.
1:01:48And he said, you know, he's a great admirer of ours.
1:02:02I said, I don't want to get into something that's not mine.
1:02:04He said, if I can do anything regarding the situation between John and Martha, I will be glad to do it.
1:02:07I said, there's no problem.
1:02:07I said, no, there's no problem.
1:02:08I said, Martha's
1:02:33I appreciate it.
1:02:33You see, my point is, you've got a guy that's on our team, so it shows you that the reaction will be exactly what you want.
1:02:36Of course, that's why you have to do it.
1:02:37One of the other things I did riding back and forth, I don't know if you've ever read Martin Fenway.
1:02:39Fantastic guy.
1:02:40He kind of develops it, so.
1:03:01This was after she had died.
1:03:02I don't know if that explains it at all.
1:03:03The rest doesn't count.
1:03:03It's always something within the world.
1:03:04That's great.
1:03:04If you take this move, people won't expect it.
1:03:05It'll be a surprise.
1:03:06It'll be a surprise.
1:03:06Otherwise, you're right.
1:03:07It will be tied right together.
1:03:07You won't like it.
1:03:32If you wait too long, it simmers down.
1:03:33And if other stuff develops on water, the problem is it's always potential or something.
1:03:35I look at that around the car.
1:03:36That's right.
1:03:36It'll be hard on our line.
1:03:37This will departure under the capillaries.
1:04:03I guess why I can be happy with a... ...marking number.
1:04:04Yeah, we have...
1:09:09Sorry about the problems.
1:09:11This is a ship I don't want to launch.
1:09:15Yeah.
1:09:15Sorry about the problems.
1:09:16And I won't add to what you've done.
1:09:18Cracks don't count here.
1:09:20I owe people with that.
1:09:22No, I'm not.
1:09:22No, but I think it's a good solution.
1:09:26All right, sir.
1:09:26Mute.
1:09:27Let me just say this.
1:09:28I won't say it further.
1:09:31Mute.
1:09:33Mute.
1:09:34Mute.
1:09:36Mute.
1:09:37Mute.
1:09:39She got through two of the things I got through in my life.
1:09:46Well, I'm the only one who hasn't.
1:09:50Sometimes it's more difficult than that.
1:09:54Yeah.
1:09:54As a matter of fact, I really think that Sam Rayburn and Joe Martin were right.
1:10:03No politician should ever be married.
1:10:04I agree with you.
1:10:05Really?
1:10:05I mean, I think Frank, the Catholic Church was right, actually.
1:10:10The folks, the priests and the rest, that's just better for them.
1:10:17It's hard as hell in China.
1:10:19I mean, this family, you know, and all the other things, God damn, you've got to fill the end.
1:10:27Terrible problem.
1:10:29Total conflict of interest.
1:10:30And that's, so there you are.
1:10:31And it's just people in public life have one hell of a time in terms of their...
1:10:43Well, anyway.
1:10:44We'll try and work it out.
1:10:45Right.
1:10:46We sure will.
1:10:48See you.
1:10:51See you back.
1:10:52Yes, sir.

NARA Description

On June 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, John N. Mitchell, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, George P. Shultz, and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:52 pm to 2:10 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 347-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 347-4

Date: June 30, 1972
Time: 12:52 pm - 2:10 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with John N. Mitchell and H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

The President talked with George P. Shultz between 12:52 pm and 12:57 pm.

[Conversation No. 347-4A]

[See Conversation No. 26-30]

     Greetings

     Refreshments

     The President's press conference, June 29, 1972
          -Questions
               -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
               -Quality
                      -The President’s view
               -Vietnam War
               -Capital punishment

Haldeman entered at unknown time after 12:57 pm.

     [Unintelligible]

Haldeman talked with John D. Ehrlichman at an unknown time between 12:57 and 2:10 pm.

[Conversation No. 347-4B]

[See Conversation No. 26-31]

[End of telephone conversation]

     [Unintelligible]

     Caviar
          -Iran
                  -The President’s previous trip
                  -Compared with the Soviet Union
                  -Mohammed Reza Pahlavi [Shah of Iran]

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 4m 19s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

*****************************************************************

     Supreme Court
          -The President's appointees
          -Vote on capital punishment
                -The President’s position
                -Press coverage
                -The President's appointees
                     -Influence
          -Press coverage
                -Fred P. Graham
                -Lyle Denniston
                -Washington Post
          -Phrase "Nixon Court"
                -Warren E. Burger
                -Dwight D. Eisenhower
                     -Earl Warren

               -Public impression
         -Potter Stewart
               -Georgetown
               -Child's school
                    -Smith College

    Mitchell
         -Resignation
         -Relationship with the President
         -Personal problems

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 8s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

*****************************************************************

    Politicians' wives
          -Six Crises
                -Dedication to Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
          -Difficulties
          -Martha (Beall) Mitchell
                -The President’s view
                -Difficulties with public role

    Martha Mitchell
         -Effect on John Mitchell
               -1972 campaign
                     -The President’s view
         -Health
               -John Mitchell’s view
                     -Effect on John Mitchell
         -Media Interest
               -Effect

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 30s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

*****************************************************************

    Martha Mitchell
         -The President’s view
              -John Mitchell’s service to the President

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 20s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5

*****************************************************************

         -Journey from Westchester County
              -Martha Mitchell
              -Westchester Country Club
                    -Media
                    -Incident

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 3m 32s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6

*****************************************************************

    Welfare reform
         -Administration's position
         -House Resolution [HR] 1
               -Elliot L. Richardson
               -James D. Hodgson
               -Abraham A. Ribicoff's position
               -Los Angeles Times statement
                     -Ronald W. Reagan

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 22s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7

*****************************************************************

    Ideological orientation
         -Legal services issues
         -Public Broadcasting
               -Sander Vanocur

                      -Salary
                            -Compared to Cabinet and Supreme Court
                      -Comparison with Walter L. Cronkite, Jr.
                      -Kennedy family

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 7m 59s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8

*****************************************************************

[Transcripts of the following portion of the conversation my be found in RG 460, Box 172, pp 1.
SI, BK II, pp. 514-15, (1-2)]

[End of transcribed portion]

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 6m 6s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9

*****************************************************************

     The President's conversation with William F. (“Billy”) Graham
          -Graham's wife
          -Offer of help for the Mitchells

     Martha Mitchell
          -Fan mail
               -Westchester Country Club incident

[Transcripts of the following portion of the conversation my be found in RG 460, Box 172, p.2
and SI, BK. II, PP.515-16 (2-3)]

[End of transcribed portion]

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 4m 58s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11

*****************************************************************

     Martha Mitchell
          -Health
          -Strains of public life
                -Politician's wives
                      -Samuel Rayburn and Joseph W. Martin, Jr.
                      -Catholic priests

Mitchell and Haldeman left at 2:10 pm.

Also recorded on June 30, 1972

  • 026-029 12:16 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 12:16 pm.
  • 744-020 12:17 PM — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:17 pm to 12:44 pm.
  • 347-001 12:50 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:50 pm and 12:52 pm.
  • 347-002 12:50 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:50 pm and 12:52 pm.
  • 347-003 12:50 PM · 36 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:50 pm and 12:57 pm.
  • 026-030 12:52 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone from 12:52 pm to 12:57 pm.
  • 026-031 12:55 PM · 46 sec — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:55 pm and 2:10 pm.
  • 026-045 12:55 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:55 pm and 3:24 pm.

All 43 conversations from June 30, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 347-004, June 30, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/347-004 (accessed September 30, 2026).