{"conversationCode":"351-008","tapeNumber":351,"conversationNumber":8,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-351-008","startDateTime":"1972-07-27T20:46:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-07-27T20:56:00.000Z","startDate":"27-Jul-1972","startTime":"4:46 PM","endDate":"27-Jul-1972","endTime":"4:56 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.;","description":"On July 27, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 4:46 pm to 4:56 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 351-008 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 351-8\n\nDate: July 27, 1972\nTime: 4:46 pm - 4:56 pm\n\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Henry A. Kissinger.\n\n     Hugh Scott\n         -Thomas C. Korologos\n         -Compromise language on a bill or resolution\n               -Administration's acceptance\n\n     The President's press conference, July 27, 1972\n          -Kissinger’s view\n          -Kissinger's attendance\n          -Kurt Waldheim\n          -Kissinger’s view\n                -Impact on North Vietnam\n                      -Bombing\n                           -Negotiations\n\n     North Vietnamese\n          -Comment\n          -The President's press conference statement on bombing\n               -Dikes\n               -State Department\n               -Surface-to-air missiles [SAM] sites on dikes\n                     -Melvin R. Laird\n               -Retaliation\n                     -Condition\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 49s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n     The President's press conference\n          -Bombing of North Vietnam\n               -Impact on negotiations\n\n                    -Possible effect on talks\n                         -Delay\n         -Spiro T. Agnew as Vice President\n               -Harry S. Truman and Theodore Roosevelt\n               -Kissinger's evaluation\n                    -Oval Office\n                         -Compared to television\n               -Comparison with Truman and Roosevelt\n                    -Lyndon B. Johnson\n                    -Mark Hanna's assessment Theodore Roosevelt\n                         -Thomas F. Eagleton\n         -Truman\n               -Major decisions\n         -Vice presidency\n               -Character\n         -Media coverage\n\n    Congressional relations\n        -Hugh Scott\n              -The President’s trip to the Soviet Union\n\n    The President's press conference\n         -Question on health problems\n              -The President's answer\n         -Psychiatrists\n              -[Eagleton]\n              -Details of clients' cases\n                    -Public release\n                         -Lawyers\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 56s       ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n    Golf game\n\n              -George Meany\n                   -George P. Shultz\n                   -William P. Rogers\n                   -Laird\n\n      Vietnam\n           -State Department\n           -South Vietnamese Casualties\n                 -Refugees\n                 -An Loc\n           -Quang Tri\n           -South Vietnam\n                 -Airborne Division\n                 -Marines\n           -Future fighting\n           -Hanoi\n                 -Negotiations\n\n      Scott\n\n      Senators\n           -Meeting with the President\n\n      The President's next meeting\n\nKissinger left at 4:56 pm.","filename":["351-008.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kissinger, Henry A."],"prevCode":"351-007","nextCode":"351-009","transcript":[{"start":0.6,"end":4.45,"text":"I was going to say that I thought that I know that ."},{"start":4.71,"end":27.85,"text":"You get language that if you can get language and keep the sons of it, you're still doing it against it."},{"start":27.87,"end":28.65,"text":"Best to not get three or four new ones."},{"start":30.79,"end":52.84,"text":"I'm afraid I want you to know whatever you decide don't pay any price"},{"start":61.44,"end":65.93,"text":"accept that, then they knock out another fellow."},{"start":65.95,"end":70.38,"text":"My view is, what you said today was good."},{"start":70.54,"end":71.91,"text":"Did you hear what I said?"},{"start":107.25,"end":118.07,"text":"I didn't say it quite that directly."},{"start":118.29,"end":126.57,"text":"But I thought, in that effect, they made a nasty comment today that actually had the effect and that the ."},{"start":126.59,"end":132.44,"text":"If you don't want the dice, I think we played that."},{"start":137.97,"end":143.37,"text":"Who are they doing?"},{"start":143.39,"end":152.98,"text":"I don't know, I want to see how they pledged because there's other things that this must have been out of span."},{"start":153,"end":160.23,"text":"In fact, he said, the only thing I left, which I deliberately pitched on, I know that Laird said they have been— Sam died with him."},{"start":160.25,"end":160.95,"text":"Well, you said it pretty much."},{"start":160.97,"end":162.97,"text":"You said you won't hit them unless they die with Sam."},{"start":162.99,"end":163.89,"text":"Yeah, that's pretty good."},{"start":164.35,"end":167.1,"text":"Oh, I thought danger in America."},{"start":209.33,"end":230.26,"text":"The way it is, though, the way that you've been trying to describe the work that you're doing in this field, you don't want to say, I was able to get in some pretty good sluts on agriculture and so forth without being correct."},{"start":230.28,"end":231.66,"text":"Although I could have said something about what else you were saying."},{"start":231.68,"end":233.48,"text":"I thought, but it all came down to, I would say, you've got to know about stuff like that."},{"start":248.06,"end":264.45,"text":"You see, the interesting thing is that a political scientist would like to not stick the answer on truth."},{"start":264.48,"end":277.09,"text":"And I mean, I don't know how many people have thought, but at the last realize ."},{"start":277.11,"end":277.31,"text":"One was"},{"start":287.62,"end":296.73,"text":"But that was fine because Johnson and everyone thought they liked him."},{"start":296.75,"end":299.37,"text":"I was talking about the two of them."},{"start":301.27,"end":306.96,"text":"No, no, it wasn't the same story."},{"start":306.98,"end":307.18,"text":"I find it."},{"start":307.2,"end":307.4,"text":"I find it."},{"start":307.42,"end":307.74,"text":"It's a question."},{"start":307.76,"end":310.66,"text":"Listen, you know what Mark Hanna did for you?"},{"start":310.78,"end":312.46,"text":"I said, what's going on?"},{"start":312.48,"end":314.12,"text":"He said, now that Maniac is president."},{"start":314.14,"end":314.67,"text":"That Maniac."},{"start":314.69,"end":315.71,"text":"I know exactly how they made him vice president."},{"start":315.73,"end":317.37,"text":"But you see, my brother, I said Maniac."},{"start":329.97,"end":343.63,"text":"So it really comes down to the question of life, but it's really more than anything else, the question of character."},{"start":343.65,"end":351.4,"text":"I thought you had to do it, but I don't know if you could."},{"start":351.42,"end":351.58,"text":"Really?"},{"start":351.6,"end":355.09,"text":"Coming back to Scott."},{"start":355.11,"end":356.55,"text":"I don't feel, I don't know."},{"start":357.97,"end":363.92,"text":"I just don't feel they ought to come here."},{"start":363.94,"end":367.18,"text":"It's dishonest of them."},{"start":367.6,"end":370.73,"text":"What's the price we have to do to get their support?"},{"start":370.75,"end":371.23,"text":"They've gone to Moscow."},{"start":372.03,"end":373.93,"text":"How would you like the answer of help from?"},{"start":373.95,"end":375.55,"text":"Isn't that a good way to put it?"},{"start":375.57,"end":376.92,"text":"If you notice, I say, well, that's a self-serving statement to me."},{"start":376.94,"end":381.22,"text":"And I say, well, I don't think others should have to put it out, personally."},{"start":381.24,"end":383.28,"text":"You know, you start this business and help."},{"start":383.3,"end":385.53,"text":"You have the opportunity to accomplish that stuff in the end."},{"start":434.93,"end":437.45,"text":"Now, an M.D."},{"start":452.97,"end":463.64,"text":"has got to have the same relationship."},{"start":471.18,"end":500.86,"text":"."},{"start":500.88,"end":500.89,"text":"."},{"start":500.92,"end":500.94,"text":"."},{"start":519.73,"end":541.23,"text":"I think it's, but it's on this, on that, you want, you want to do this, and if you do, it's all right."},{"start":541.25,"end":541.63,"text":"I'll do it."},{"start":541.71,"end":544.37,"text":"Well, I want to back off my position."},{"start":544.39,"end":545.24,"text":"I've heard both of them, and I'm with you."},{"start":545.25,"end":547.04,"text":"I'm glad to be seeing all these guys."},{"start":553.97,"end":561.1,"text":"It doesn't come up with that."},{"start":561.12,"end":563.8,"text":"It doesn't come up with that ."},{"start":563.82,"end":565.28,"text":"But you know, isn't it?"},{"start":565.3,"end":568.05,"text":"Because you know, you've got to ."},{"start":568.07,"end":569.13,"text":"It is quite shocking."},{"start":569.37,"end":571.47,"text":"They delivered 45,000 casualties."},{"start":571.49,"end":571.85,"text":"That's ."},{"start":571.87,"end":573.43,"text":"They delivered 600,000, 800, 600,000 ."},{"start":573.45,"end":574.37,"text":"a day into Adelaide."},{"start":574.39,"end":574.65,"text":"That's right."},{"start":575.86,"end":577.32,"text":"And now the Moncrief, they had ."},{"start":577.44,"end":579,"text":"They had to withdraw from the Citadel."},{"start":604.48,"end":605.06,"text":"What are they?"},{"start":605.44,"end":606.86,"text":"Mr. President, we've never come through."},{"start":607.3,"end":613.63,"text":"If you could hurt their feelings, they wouldn't be talking to us today."},{"start":613.65,"end":616.71,"text":"No, we're not going to get anywhere being so turnstruck now."},{"start":616.95,"end":620.54,"text":"Now, do you think I ought to see these five senators?"},{"start":620.56,"end":622.32,"text":"Let's see what the situation is."},{"start":622.84,"end":623.04,"text":"All right."},{"start":623.06,"end":623.16,"text":"Okay."},{"start":623.42,"end":624.44,"text":"Send the other fellow senators."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discussed the political fallout and public reception of the President's press conference held earlier that day, specifically addressing comments regarding the bombing of North Vietnam and the targeting of dikes. The two evaluated the President's performance, compared historical precedents for the vice presidency, and touched upon political concerns involving Senator Hugh Scott and other congressional relations. Additionally, they reviewed the ongoing military situation in South Vietnam, including casualty counts and the impact of the conflict on future peace negotiations.","topics":["Vietnam War","Press Conference","Bombing Policy","Congressional Relations","Vice Presidency","Political Strategy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T16:34:26.732Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","press-conference","bombing-policy","congressional-relations","vice-presidency","political-strategy"],"audioDurationSec":628,"audioFiles":[{"file":"351-008.mp3","bytes":15073488,"durationSec":628,"bitrate":192018,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:44.538Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:25.012Z","transcriptGapSeconds":113,"transcriptGapShare":0.18,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/351-008.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/351-008","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/351/conversation-351-008","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}