Conversation 354-031

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All right.

China.

It's the goddamnedest thing.

People are terrified.

The Indians are terrified.

Absolutely.

I'm sorry for the Japanese.

His thing is that we should, of course, support him on that equation with China.

That China should, rather than our standing here, that China should have responsibility.

That we should have done it.

We should have done it.

We could have done it.

His face, his face is a brilliant fool.

His face has always been a brilliant fool.

He, uh, these guys, uh, I've learned that there's acid, there's, uh, they hate anyone, they hate America so much that anyone who's alive with us, it is his life.

Wow.

Anyway, it's got to be good scenes.

No, I...

I think I should take this one because if they did it, I'm going to do what they say they're going to do with their messages.

Moving fast.

My two assistants are very good drafts.

But I, like somebody who... You don't, let me say, you don't really need to have an adequate communication.

I can talk to you, but in general, I...

But I like, for example, you have to go to the plane to do it, or... Yeah, but it's...

There's really no plane.

There's no... Why don't you go to the beach, or...

But I think I would have had Al there.

On the second thought, I think it's also helpful to you to be able to rather than that.

That's the thing that assures him that we're not there.

I thought perhaps Al

And also, I'd like him to tell you if he has any convictions different from me, because this is a significant decision that we've had to make.

So I think that it's like being out of state, you know.

Would you get a Coastal's office or somebody over there to dig out the sections that are set up in the channel?

I have a lap that's going to be done seriously.

I see you off the list.

Go sign it down.

I'll look it up.

Yes, sir.

Well, I think, yeah.

The problem was quite evident when we got there.

Apparently, that was suspicious.

All the repetitions that he had been scarred since the beginning of the war.

So, the presentation of this committee, the Triquartite membership committee,

I just spent two hours with you in a very frank state.

I asked one question.

Whenever you come to a point where you have to read some great piece of the text now,

I understand that he backed off because he was... Oh, yes, he did.

But it's all a case of concentrated paranoia at this point in his role.

And things that were agreed to last January, for example, and the fact that he didn't have the participation point, you know, that's why they're very concerned about it today.

So, I gave him a proposal statement, and he indicated he would give it to the client.

But it turned out that we went on the second day, and we ended up being promoted to bear, because the traffic didn't stop for some time during the past.

in September, and then our two medical programs, which I had left for two days already, they were still on the plan, so it was not acceptable.

And they insisted that we go back to the condition they had given us around the same time.

And this was as much as they could bear.

And so the results of doing that, radically, there's morale, there's armed forces, there's

He said the festival was quick by the time he got to the election committee.

With three, three, yes, and already arbitrary.

Yes, because it's arbitrary.

He said that he was willing to have any participants in the committee, but it should be decided by the record, by vote.

And the weight of the role that they would have was decided by vote.

I got into a state of depression, and I forgot to play the piano, so I had to play something else.

In other words, I got into a state of depression, and I forgot to play the piano, so I had to play something else.

and national reconciliation with proportionate representation.

That's all.

He doesn't undertake all proportionate representation.

Yes, sir.

He led the whole government with proportionate representation.

He closed that, and the result we've got is that it's come to an end.

And where?

Where do you want to call it by name?

Well, it isn't enough for the other side.

It is something that we need to understand.

We've got to work on it.

It ended up, right?

It ended up in the budget.

And that's the nutty of the issue.

Nutty of the background.

Well, and in effect, he would use his specific comments on the book, which I asked privately, and to the whole business group.

Now, I knew...

I had a feeling, however, that he would be easier to deal with than some of his bureaucrats, who were more consensual.

Everybody had to show up.

That's right.

And he made a great point about how to tell the president not to worry about the president.

I think he's a big fan.

So I left the trip very reassured, but in a certain way, I felt that he could have said that he had instructed me to come.

He disagreed.

He said he'd throw it out.

I guess what was going on there in the earlier presentation.

Well, Henry is self-responding.

I'm honest with you.

And, you know, we've got to admire him.

We've got to admire him.

The models are highly locked on the key side, but the ethical actions aren't really being held.

Well, that's essentially it.

What he really objects to is trying to part-time things from two perspectives.

One is the arbitrary composition, which he said does not represent political realities.

It's happening in common.

The second one is he's concerned that if we find this unanimity, that over time, because he won't be able to accept the communist proposal, he will be isolated as a villain.

So if one of our arguments is in, if he accepts to go in the peace proposal, but then when they start implementing it, nothing happens because he vetoed.

In other words, he's a saboteur.

He'll be the saboteur.

He'll be the developer of the New York Times.

And he said, that means my suicide.

And in that context, there's some truth in the answer.

He manages his affairs properly.

And it's a nice thing to do.

Did you get a chance to talk to the old man about it?

No.

What's his name?

He's got no idea.

No, except Bunker is very animal, too, and he has been since last fall.

Why?

The election.

The reason for the election.

I have to say, I can send this to you.

Brunkett did not manage this well.

He led you through a lot of things.

For example, few things that would be offered.

That's why you didn't want to send the message.

Oh, no, no, no.

I've sent you messages now, Richard.

I sent it with a payment from you, so he led you.

And they have every night realized what you

And I think we've got you under very good control.

You see, we did not understand that our proposing this committee of national reconciliation, which each party represented, would upset you so much because we've been proposing it since last January publicly and for two years before that.

On the other hand, you, at that time, never thought it would come into being.

pay any attention to it.

We were, we've been proposing it to you as an electoral commission, but the functions we gave to this committee are basically that.

Well, at that time, now this time, there's 120 in a minute, we're going much beyond.

But up to now, the curious thing is that they've paranoiously attacked now for things we had not yet done.

All we have done is give the electoral commission the final national consideration.

And the fact that this is so is moved by a lot of, in the sense we have, and tell us which we have in the North.

We have a company that Van Van Dong had with somebody yesterday, in which Van Van Dong said all the Americans are proposing to us is the Electric Commission be named.

And Van Van Dong is right and Hugh is wrong.

But what Hugh is worried about is that by naming it, it will begin setting a precedent that another company has a

Yes.

He has been persecuting communists in South Vietnam for ten years.

Now he's suddenly introduced a public figure.

And what that will do, is it public imminent?

Uh, isn't that, don't you think that that was more exemplary in being able to say that world recognition, recognition that they exist?

is that we have to be fair to see where they got it from.

In fact, probably they should know where it's from.

Probably.

It wouldn't be a coincidence that I found out.

See, it did not, it did not draw.

It would not say, not in Korea, despite the fact that we found the mine, you know, sent them everything, backed them up, bought them out of the public, bought them work, and stood up for the Russians, stood up for the Chinese.

It just may be that we have a loser in our hands.

That's relevant.

The United States, we can't hold our hands off of what's in here.

The Joint Chiefs are now planning three years to bomb it.

Go ahead.

I don't mean to... What we have to be sure of is that their barrier doesn't become our barrier.

To put it cynically, if we could make a deal now, and they collapse a year from now, no one will.

On my collapse, what is collapse?

You know, it isn't going to be all that clear.

In my case, what one has to weigh on the other side, in fact, is that everyone else thinks of Hanoi as ten feet tall.

But once the war stops, whether they can continue conscripting people and sending themselves

Whether they can do it, they can pass, but it's also tough.

I think it might be a fighting layer, too.

I think the South Vietnamese are still doing god damn well these days.

They're fighting well, or are they not?

No, they're not.

Are they fighting well or badly, or what?

They're fighting on battle, and they held a lot better than they ever had before, but there are some

They've got four divisions there.

He's been sneaking planes out all summer long when he had an opportunity to apply maximum pressure.

The reason the soldiers had fallen, if you noticed, was because he had ordered a drop off the soldier.

He's been moving in like that.

Okay, all right.

Now, come on.

What was next?

I think right now what we have to do is

or a collapse of two.

It's just a disaster in the short term.

So we've got to hold in that sense.

I don't know.

try to get something to bring back in here that would be reassuring on the security side.

Right.

What Henry can you...

I don't think I would even give him an offer, that's the problem.

I wonder if his hands aren't tied.

Well, I would like to propose...

Unless you're able to separate something.

Well, let me propose the problem, Mr. Kirsten.

and a new election for a president via the constituent assembly.

That was a big dose and no reciprocal obligation created by the end of that.

What I would like to do is present a proposal to the administration, or as it's said, the government of Madden and Concord, he said, calling in a committee of Madden and the constituent assembly, operating by the end of that.

giving it many of these functions.

Otherwise it won't fly.

The only difference that I make in the composition is that each side has two of the neutrons.

And all that means is that he's got to find two guys in all of the amount who vote with him.

And then it won't be in a minority position.

It will be that 50-50.

He's got to find two guys called neutrons.

and put them on this committee in addition to this committee.

Now, that should not be beyond this capacity.

So that way, the functions it would not, the functions it would have would be to supervise the elections it would have always had there, facilitate implementation of the scientific reasons, facilitate it, examine existing laws for their conditions, and assist in doing the conditions of people making recommendations about them.

foster consultations between the South Vietnamese parties.

Those would be astute, nothing else.

In addition, there's a provision saying that until the electoral provisions of the overall agreement have been carried out, the existing authorities in South Vietnam will continue to govern the areas under their control on the basis of existing legislation and maintain their existing foreign relations.

Now, that resource still

Now, but I will not go into any discussion of whether there will be presidential election, national assembly election, constitutional assembly, how the government will perform.

As I said, this is the framework in which we will take.

Now, what I need from you is security guarantees.

I'm going to propose that the security guarantees involve the ceasefire laws in Cambodia, international supervision of access rules in Vietnam,

and a promise to destroy the Air Force from thousand and forty-two and I know they'll never really carry that out.

And forcefully, I have a complicated formula according to which they will pull out half their forces from South Vietnam, the formula being consistent with what you proposed earlier, and then wade towards the rest of its growth.

because anything that they do will softly not have the most benefit in the way they want to accomplish their destiny.

But the day the settlement is signed, and then on the other side, it will be expected that the forces that came in will not be under their control, and that they will have people from the North Vietnam.

Assuming they accept this,

Assuming they accept this, I will go back to Saigon, or I hate to go back, but I'm afraid I'm going to take them to the jail.

And say, look, you've got me secured.

Now, how do we settle the political issue?

I would have left open the big ass, but all I would have given away is the National Association

But he's had it all, hasn't he?

I don't see how he can do it.

We might like to get him a little softer.

I'm thinking he needs some time.

Mr. President, if he can't survive, there's nothing for me to do.

That's all me.

That's me.

I mean, for what will be the fee then fighting that is my hang-up on this thing?

And what are we going to expect will be the outcome.

If this doesn't work, the only other outcome.

Now, we may not get the security guarantees, Mr. President, but in that case, we will reluctantly have to bother them three more months.

Which, in my judgment, they won't be averse to unless we also promise to start with the very A's and then we'll end like bloody deviations.

This is so complex a discernment that at least it would look like an act of stage control.

It is true that committee is the key element.

But if it doesn't, if it doesn't lie to committee, then I go out as I go.

then you have to decide, it's presuming this.

If Du Bois, if you read the press now, Mr. President, you will see that there is one journalist in the world who expects this to end, to side down, remaining in control of its territory.

All this speculation is in the direction that the government of national comfort established and passed the order of Vietnam on its jurisdiction.

Yes, we wind up.

There's a settlement in which Saigon remains.

No government of national conquest has left a committee of permission or ever been called.

Exists.

The army remains under Saigon.

And the police remains under Saigon.

Then I am certain that the American press will describe it as an enormous achievement for you.

They won't consider this a settlement.

Now that won't help us if in fact it leads to the immediate collapse of

But I'm not confident that they will either give us the security insurance or that they're willing to call this committee a committee rather than a government committee.

Now, if they are not willing to settle for the name committed, then my strong recommendation would be to lay out the last two minutes.

We've said the government and the National Council have said that you're better off just putting out the last two minutes.

If they go out of their own possession, that will kill them.

It is essential to that.

So the concession they had, they have to add one more concession to the

They had to give us security guarantees for all of them to check.

And throw a hat in the bush for themselves.

And those would be big concessions.

I mean, there's no evidence, whatever, that they're going to make that not work so well.

They sent the journalists a note.

What did you read from the note?

I don't know.

He says, I, the only positive thing he says, I,

I also welcome the progress of the United Nations.

Of course, I have advocated for many years.

But we must build on this progress by encouraging China's full participation in the United Nations.

And to take part in providing for Asian security.

As president, I will begin by recognizing the government of the UK.

In recent years, our relations with Japan have been steadily and completely declined, whether in the United States or the United States of America.

There are a trend in the trust between Japan's place in the United States, the importability of economic policy without consulting Japan, and the blame Japan for problems with our communities and the name Japan for these shocks that took a year to be decided between the Chinese and the Japanese.

I think that's probably the best plan.

of the committee, and the commission.

If it blows, it gets out, so that's what we're talking all the time.

In other words, this will be the version.

This now will go much further, Mr. President.

If this blows, it's a step in the direction.

But we could present it on the basis of this unanimity.

Now that it's a maximum step, we don't see such a structure that gives the communists the approval

If it had been presented to American public opinion, that I could undertake.

But American public opinion will have no profit at this time.

The trouble you have with Americans, as you said, Samson, is that they're harassing people.

The trouble with the law of the earth.

It's not a mistake.

Unless it works.

Yeah, I say at the mission, yeah, they get that wrong.

It's an advisory group.

If there is a ceasefire, you'll have to have something like that underway.

Al, I don't think that anybody can go there and operate any less.

Are you afraid we'd better not offer this?

No, I'm not here.

I think we, I left them with the impression that we're not going to be COVID-accounted on their resistance.

And we had to prepare for this forever.

And I think the softening of processes has been underway.

It's like, I frankly am not sure that the

so they never, they don't fly.

If it doesn't, then we have done the math, we've done the math.

So I don't have another thing to focus on.

Then we can study.

I would, for example, Oh, no, I was going to say, this I certainly would put up for discussion.

But we could put it up, and we could discuss it later on.

That's what I would definitely like to do.

Now they accepted and gave us this church.

Then we got a massive task to do.

But, uh, I would say that we're carrying on with the work that we're doing.

So we have to do what we're waiting for.

It isn't likely to work.

It's not likely to get that far.

It's going to cost us a terrible opportunity.

No, I'm afraid, Mr. President, I don't want to hear this.

Take the microphone.

This is either going to fly or it isn't going to fly.

If it doesn't fly, then we have no problem.

If it does fly, we'll know it within ten days.

Hello?

Yeah.

No question.

That's just the case.

If they want to sell it back, they have to accept this, which from their point of view is as much of a sense that they'll have a message on this thing as they can.

If you compare the position they had as late as July 19, with the position that this would involve them, if you compare their seven points... What was the answer to that?

Well, the answer to that was, we're not a government, it has only advisory functions.

Secondly, it's not a government, it's a commission.

Secondly, it has only advisory functions.

Since we have a ceasefire situation, there has to be some sort of a mechanism by which those parts of the activities that are coming to both sides can be discussed.

And it is always the case in armistice commissions and so forth,

look what they started out asking for, they asked for a government that will not be enforced, will not pay for all the costs.

I think we can handle it.

Particularly, what is the alternative then?

If the military could give us a plan in which there's a 50-50 chance that in four to six months, or that they clear out, I would not be here now.

My nightmare is that we'll be working on declining power of courage in the bad weather season.

If we don't do it, we'll be really gambling on a September in groups that we know, and then they just wouldn't take much more, and then they'd have to go out and compete.

That is, there's a 40% chance of that.

The possibility is also that it's somewhat within their control, that they get hurt too much by a bomb, and they can always get us out by helping prisoners who were strong.

It has the advantage of creating immediate leaders.

But the complication that Christian arrived at, why the hell didn't he do that in 1602?

How can you disagree with what I thought?

I want the President to hear it.

No, I don't disagree.

I think that we have to hear this.

up to the point where our judges tell us that we're going to lose.

If we lose it in the short term, then what we say about our alternatives being bad in the future, I think it's our obligation to play out for the greats.

We've been doing it for four years, and I think we're going to recommend that we go off back to the greats, and that is to keep that government gone, or air gone.

But if we're being compromised, then we have an obligation to try within those parameters.

But that decision we haven't reached yet, because we won't have that decision until we get the security.

If we get the decision that the President has to make, it will be presented to the United Nations in the end.

I knew that if we backed away in the face of this going on, I got to decide that I was going to be in worse shape than I am now.

Because I know they can get back with me.

They can push it off of me.

They've got all my environmental issues.

I've got to be just the same.

I've got to be able to do 600 feet per week.

They're doing most of the fighting.

When you read this account, Mr. President, it's heartbreaking.

If you read what these poor little bastards are saying, the tragedy is that our goddamned military is out of the picture.

They can't show us an object of it.

If I had any more confidence that we'd be better off in the describable way that we can play for the French, we've done it for four years.

The thing about the military that pisses me off is that I've given them every goddamn support they've gotten.

All they do is piss on us.

But what pisses me off... What the hell do they know?

What do they stand up for?

If Admiral Murdoch had come in, if an owl was over here, over there, they showed him a list of requests the neighbors had sent over, that land had stopped.

If Admiral Murdoch were a man, he would have come in and made, would have said, we've got these requests, what do I do?

You would have ordered it.

You'd never do it without a mitigation plan.

It's important you get it out there.

I'm going to send the information to the lab.

I'm going to send it to that conference.

I think it's a great rule.

You don't need to have to report it much.

Well, I'll tell you, if this thing goes the way it does, I think you should do it with the only thing.

Now, for your information, I gave it to you before today.

I'm not a true ambassador for the airline, I don't do all this kind of private stuff.

But, you know, hurdles can be some times, and I don't want to talk too much about it.

There will be a change in the passenger rush, but that's not a question.

I'm on with Thailand, it's all kind of a close relationship, and I totally trust it.

I think, for example, I was trying to add something to what I was saying,

I think, I'd like a little animal out there.

If I got, I'd give them a little roly-poly sign, too.

That should be an ordinary animal.

Do you agree?

And this thing looks, you see, if we get out of the security jam, there's all sorts of ingenious formula we can come up with to satisfy a few months of referendum.

We could say after six months, there'll be a referendum between neutralists, communists, and people who are neutralists, communists, and people who are communists.

and then the National Committee will be reconstructed in proportion to that vote.

You know, there are 500 things we can throw in there to save students' lives.

Once we break through, the reason I need this in this meeting is because they will not talk to you like they dream now from what we've already offered them.

Then they will hear themselves.

Maybe they'll take it.

and the wounded and the dead.

I don't believe it.

Because I think if they want to cease fire alone, they'll just step down their activities against the army, which is not very accurate in pursuing them, and they'll offer us prisoners for this job, and they'll get that without going through the exercise of making a formal ceasefire on this site.

The only warning I can give is that

I don't want to be in a position to defend the coalition government.

That's the thing I cannot take.

but we cannot, you know, work hard in defense of that kind of, that I think this is, you know, this is, this is, this is probably, the way I would do it, I thought, I thought it was a lot less than I said.

We have always said that there would be an electoral commission for the purpose of, you know, of, of,

the record of all people participating in the election process in the West.

And this, of course, is that concept developed in a natural way.

That's what I think.

I know that point.

That's an electoral commission.

I think we can handle the domestic people.

And this is not a proposal which in and of itself would be destructive.

It is a proposal that the government, it's not the coalition that has to fix it.

Oh, I don't think we even have to worry about conquering in here at all.

Why not?

Because of the makeup of the sun.

If we get a satellite, people will stand up.

It comes from the house house, plus the word coalition.

From a coalition with the communist cult, we won't do that.

But where the danger is, if we buy it, and the GBN collapses short term, then you've got a serious problem.

If it happens over a long time, that's only good.

I think you're set.

Go ahead.

This thing, this security door is so stiff because you use it the best you can.

Also, even if we're probably out of business or whatever, they won't, they won't, they won't push that.

I know that.

I mean, I've...

This is a Richard Bunch.

They've got eight old men sitting around the table.

Toe cannot... What time do you leave the apartment?

About ten o'clock.

I'll give you a moment to think about that.

Well, give it to me in proposal if you'd like to.

I'll do it on the open phone.

Yeah.

Call us at the open line, will you?

Well, good luck.

And, Henry, don't hesitate to call me and use the devil talk.

You know the devil talk.

I'll play it.

Let's use the phone so that you can actually give us a long message.

Fair enough?

Right.

You're going to do all right.

Thank you.

Bye.